Sam Heughan (2016)

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0:48Apply today and earn a welcome offer of$1 ,500 cash back after you spend$50 ,000 in qualifying purchases on your new card within the first six months of card membership. Terms apply. Learn more at go.amx.graphite. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now.

1:07Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today, we are celebrating all things Outlander. The show begins its final season, its eighth season, this Friday, March 6th. So we are taking a look back to my many conversations with this cast, including this very first podcast chat with the one and only Sam Hewitt. Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out Happy, Say, Confused. If you've been a listener for a while, I appreciate you. If you're new to the podcast, you're amazing. Thank you. Check out our archives because there's a ton of great stuff in there, about 700 episodes worth, including many conversations with the cast of this beloved show that is Outlander.

1:47There are certain series that have meant a lot to me personally and professionally, and I can say it because Sam is not in the room and if he were in the room, I couldn't be serious. But no, in all earnestness, Outlanders meant a lot to me personally and professionally and it's been such a blast to get to know this amazing cast over the years. So I thought I would celebrate the beginning of the end, as it were, the final season, the eighth season, launches on Starz on March 6th by taking a look back because I've had so many great conversations with this cast and while many of you have probably, if you're an Outlander fan, If you are a Sam Heughan or Katrina Bell fan, you've probably seen my conversations with them.

2:25Maybe some have slipped through the cracks, especially early ones. So what we're going to do today is share with you the very first podcast conversation I had with Sam Heughan. And it's kind of a fascinating time capsule. I listened back to it. And this was, I think, just my second meeting with Sam. And we met for the first time at Comic-Con promoting the second season. of Outlander. And I immediately loved him and Katrina. We had a great chat there and, you know, certain people you just click with. And I knew these people were my people. So I knew I had to have them on the podcast. And I invited Sam on the podcast soon thereafter.

3:06And what you're about to experience is an audio conversation. There's no video. I apologize. But back then we weren't doing video on the podcast. What can I say? You know? But maybe that'll make this all the more intimate. I don't know. But it's also a very different kind of conversation than Sam Heughan and I had in subsequent years. We were just getting to know each other. So I think this is a nice snapshot of Sam and Josh pretending to be professional, which we stopped being at some point over the years. Now it's just anarchy. And this was like, I'm actually treating him with respect in this conversation, if you can imagine.

3:45And he, me, I know. So fascinating. Fascinating to listen back to. And it's a bit more of a career conversation, and I look back at the beginnings of Outlander and his career. So I thought this was a nice treat for those of you that have been along for the ride of Outlander all these years. So this is from 2016. You're about to listen to me and Sam Heughan. Before we get to that, though, a quick reminder, as always, especially true for the Outlander fans out there, patreon.com slash happy, sad, confused, has so much good stuff in terms of we always give early access to all our episodes and bonus materials and merch and autograph stuff all sorts of discount codes to my live events but especially if you're an outlander fan we have some very special bits and bobs that we're going to put only on the patreon as i tape this i'm getting ready don't worry it's not my red carpet look but tonight i'm going to be hosting the live stream of the outlander season 8 red carpet So we'll have some stuff from that some other things are cooking you will be well fed outlander fans trust me Um, and we might drop another nostalgia episode very soon I'm checking out I'm looking at other stuff in the archives.

4:55I might share some stuff with you guys. So um patreon.com says happy say confused anyway without any further ado Listen up use your imagination imagine me and Sam Heughan in my cozy little office at mtv back in 2016 2016, this is our very first Happy, Sick, Confused conversation, the first of many. Here is me and Sam Heughan. Enjoy. We're diving in with Sam Heughan. It's good to see you, man. Hello there. Good to be here in sunny New York. Yeah, it's not so sunny. Scottish weather. I'm just saying I've brought the weather everywhere I've been on this press tour. Oh, is that right? Yeah, it rained in Sydney, Tokyo, L.A., and now New York.

5:35You're a harbinger of doom and gloom wherever you go. Absolutely, yes. Very depressing. But we were saying, as we tape this, this is a big week for you guys here in New York. You're taking New York by storm, so to speak. Yeah, I feel like we're taking over New York a little bit. We have our premiere tonight, which is going to be very exciting. And then we have the Saks store. We have our costumes up, a great display in the windows there. Nice. And then at the end of the week, it's tartan week. So I'm the Grand Marshal this year, very honored. And I'm going to be leading the pipes down 6th Avenue.

6:08That's probably not something when you're growing up as a kid, you're like, you know, probably one day it's all going to lead to this. Yeah, that's really odd, actually. Yeah, I never thought that would ever happen. So do you enjoy the, I mean, you've been racking up the frequent flyer miles, traveling the world in support of this. Is this, it's work, but is it enjoyable? I've had no fun at all. It's been very miserable. No, it's been terrific. You know, I've had a good day off, you know, wherever I've been and explored in Japan. And I went to Kyoto on the bullet train and did lots of fun stuff in Australia.

6:40And yeah, this is kind of like the climax, the culmination. Is there more comfort this go around in the press tour in terms of after promoting the second season versus when it was new and you didn't know how it would be received, etc.? Comfort. Yeah, we had to do everything by bus last time. And now we're being very well looked after. You know you've made it when. Everybody gets their own car. Exactly. No, we were extremely well looked after. It's wonderful. It's kind of very strange. But I guess what I would say is that we're maybe a bit more used to it now. We're like, you know, the first year was definitely a learning curve.

7:15Yeah. Did you? Well, first of all, I feel like I owe you an apology. The only other time I met you was you and Kat at Comic-Con this past July. And it felt like such a novel idea. Oh, let's play it like a Know Your Co-Star kind of game, a newlywed game. And then I look online as I'm researching you and I'm like, You've probably played that horrible game like 15 times at least. Maybe once or twice, but to be honest, I still lose. And I'm very competitive. And I get asked the same questions and I still never know the answer. So normally when's Kat's birthday and what's her favorite food? And I still can't remember.

7:48So what do you warn about her on the second go around? Now having worked with her for a couple of years, what do you know about her now that you didn't know in the first season? Do you know, it's funny actually, season two, definitely. I think we've got even closer. And I just, I mean, I'm absolutely overwhelmed about how lucky I am to be working with her. And I think that bond between us is definitely, you know, in the show, in season two, it's more complex, it's sort of deeper rooted, and it's like more of a grown-up relationship or more of like a modern marriage in the show. And I think that was also reflected in our personal relationship as well.

8:26Can you, you know, you could have a drinking game associated with the times chemistry is mentioned in terms of like, you know, co-stars and making it work or whatever. Is too much made of that? Can you like, could a show like this be achieved if you legitimately just didn't get a long offset, you think? Oh, that's a really good question. Because you do, you go into these chemistry tests. Right. And I was very - It's just an audition basically or not? It's basically an audition, yeah. And I was very lucky to be involved quite early on in our show. So I tested with lots of very attractive young ladies.

9:02And, you know, I felt chemistry with a lot of them. It was, no, I don't know. I mean, it's a funny thing. When you're in it, you don't, you know, you're not aware of what's happening. You're just, you know, in the part. And I guess it's for everyone watching to look for the chemistry. But I don't know. What do they look for? Well, I mean, what do you recall of meeting her for the first time in terms of like, Like, was there something different then versus the other women you were testing with? Yeah, I mean, the only thing I would say is that when she walked in, it was like, oh, yeah, she's absolutely perfect.

9:34And to be honest, before I knew it, we were doing this very intense scene that's in the show, but it's quite dramatic. And before I knew it, I mean, we were literally getting physical, like sort of tearing chunks out of each other. And I remember at one point thinking, God, she can really give it back. So I think, to be honest, I think Katrina just wowed everyone with her performance. So I'm curious, where were you at in your career, in your view on your own career and your self-worth or whatever when you got cast in this? What was the, if I was talking to you like the day before you got tested for this, where were you at?

10:11It's actually very funny. I'd been in America for quite a while. I just finished a pilot season and tested on about four shows, quite exciting stuff, and got really close on things. And then returned back to the UK a little bit despondent and actually started doing one of those things that I guess an actor does all the time. Just start going, can I actually do this? You know, I'm not getting any younger. And, you know, am I going to be able to support myself in the future? And I actually was at a point where I was looking at, you know, having to go work in a bar or, you know, do that sort of thing.

10:45odd jobs but it's been something you know every actor does especially um when you're starting out you know uh and then i got the call to to go and audition for this this series and um it was kind of just stepping on this roller coaster well it does feel like you know in the narrative of people like write about you it feels like overnight success but you've been doing this a while you mean early 30s when you get this part right yeah yeah so it's like did how did you rationalize that when you start to sort of like see what the press kind of made of you and you're like well I've actually been doing this for like 10, over 10 years and having some successes and maybe not some successes or whatever.

11:21I've been on the roller coaster for a while. Yeah. I mean, it is a little bit, but in also a way, it's wonderful. You know, you get, it's just absolutely catapulted, you know, my career and changed my life. It's become my life. But I guess, yeah, no, absolutely. I graduated drama school 2003 and I've been working ever since, you know, off and on as a jobbing actor. So a lot of theater and, you know, bit parts in drama. But this is, you know, in a way is very new, but also I feel lucky that it's come out a time when I sort of feel I know what I'm doing almost. Right. Almost. It's always something to learn.

12:01Was there one that got away in the years prior that you felt like, oh, this is going to change my life. I'm like in the top, you know, top three or four now. And they're about to, I think it's going to happen. and then clear coasting to the top. Yeah. Was there one? Many. Yeah, many. I only got a long list. I mean, how long have you got? But yeah, and also when you test on shows and you get so close, and what they do when you do a test is that before you do your test, your agents, they have to strike the deal. Right, you're signed on to like three or five years or whatever. How much money you're going to get.

12:37And always, before you've got the job, you start imagining how you're going to spend your money and you maybe even go out and buy yourself something. This is great. So year three, I guess I'll buy the house. I'll buy the house, the car, and that new watch I've been looking at. So, yeah, I mean, it is. And I guess, you know, over the years, you get a bit more aware that this is the process that happens and then actually that you can't let it sort of, you know, take you over. But now, you know, I'm in a fortunate place where people bring me coffee. It's just like magic. that's the dream again when you start out being an actor the dream is wanting to be on a podcast where someone just brings you coffee when you ask for it do you know this guy kind of looks a bit like you oh yeah i can't do probably could not let's talk about the brand but uh yeah there's a bespectacled man with that needs a haircut on the on the coffee maybe you should start your own coffee brand it's my side business the podcast doesn't pay the bills man i gotta do what i can yeah so um in retrospect did you know what you were getting into when you got involved in this does it feel like i mean this kind of a thing that engenders the kind of passion and fans does not come along very often yeah did they did whoever ron or whoever kind of explained to you what the ride was going to be like or can anyone even do that um no they can't and i actually no i don't think i knew i was getting into um and i guess is again you're going back to being an actor and being that sort of thing you always play it down and you're saying you know it's not gonna because you've been burned before probably every actor's like had that thing where like oh this is going to be the one that clicks yeah so you do a show and then it you know it doesn't get picked up or right you do series and or whatever so you're always trying to you know not get your expectations too high and i think um it's also been a real learning curve the show it's been it's been terrific and i think that's what's great about it you know it's never it's never going to get tiring or tired because it's constantly changing and reimagining itself and certainly our season too is is a almost a completely different show we'll be right back with more happy sad confused

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17:06So give me the pros and cons of sometimes being objectified. Is there any con? I would feel like I would wish this on myself to feel like people are judging me by my looks in a good way. How do you mean? well i've been thinking it's an odd thing here's my perspective on this like so i've been in mtv for many years and like and and uh for instance in a much different kind of a franchise or whatever but like i had many conversations with robert pattinson for instance and i feel like he had to kind of like ride out this very odd thing where he people projected stuff onto him because he was playing this character and there was a disconnect between him and the character yeah and you know For you, I would think there is a bit of that where some people see Jamie and not Sam when they see you.

17:52Is that something that you've experienced and something that is just – it's fun? Or can it be a little bit of a mindfuck in a way for you? Yeah. I suppose I have seen that, which I guess I'm flattered by because I guess it means I've probably done my job. But there are other people that I pay money to sort of worry about those things. But, you know, I take it all in good humor. And I think it's nice that people kind of so buy into he was a character. But then I guess, you know, there are times when, you know, you wish people would sort of see you as the actor. And you're not actually that person.

18:31And you're just playing a role. And, you know, I guess actors always worry that they're going to be typecast or always seen as one person. start to go against trend or against type but um i don't know if that's a good idea or not i'm not sure are you seeing that in the the things that you've been offered or the things you've been up for since outlander have has it changed and are they interesting or people kind of like just again taking at face value this one character you've done and just giving you similar parts to that uh initially yeah i had i was offered something uh and it was to play a red-headed scottish warrior in this period piece.

19:04I was like, what imagination? You've gone outside the box for that. It was quite a big show, but no, it's changing as well. And yeah, I've had some really interesting things that we're sort of working on at the moment. And yeah, I'm very excited. And it's all down to Outlander and the fact that, you know, it has got this great fan base and that the show seems to be doing pretty well. What were the first, you know, again, we're talking about how you, no one can possibly know what they're getting into and something like this. what was the first kind of exposure to fans or or in a massive way in a small way that was kind of like okay this is this is not going to be the normal run-of-the-mill experience this could be something that resonates on a on a massive level yeah i think we did um a fan event very early on i think we'd only shot maybe two or three episodes i think and we did this fan event in downtown la we may even I've not even completed those episodes but we I think we showed them a small trailer and you know there were people out there you know queuing up from sort of you know very early in the morning and I guess we didn't expect that in every way you know on Twitter you know that also for me you know because we're in this bubble in Scotland where it's kind of removed from it which is in a way quite nice but on Twitter you can sort of see or social media you can see you know the the excitement and the anticipation that people have for the show.

20:29And I think that's definitely very rewarding when we then get to come to, you know, New York and let people finally see it. Is there, is there a quote unquote typical fan or have you been surprised by the breadth of fans and the kind of different age groups or whatever? Yeah. I think that, you know, the original book fans are maybe over a certain demographic because, you know, Diana wrote these books 20 years ago. So they've been waiting 20 years. So they're, you know, a group of people that probably read those books back then that have been waiting for them to be made. But we've attracted a lot of new fans, you know, even people that haven't read the books, especially, you know, I think the show is just, I think it stands alone.

21:10Obviously, we want it to represent the, you know, Diana's great book series. But, yeah, we've attracted people that haven't, you know, sort of even read the books. And then they've gone on to do that. Well, and it's fun too also like, I mean, I remember when I first heard about it and, you know, again, based on the book series or whatever that I frankly wasn't myself knowledgeable about. But then I heard Ron Moore and I'm like, okay, that checks a different box that makes me very intrigued by this. And it's that unique blend that I think is probably expanding your audience beyond maybe what typically you would expect it to be.

21:40Yeah, I think our show does appeal to a lot of people because it's got so much in it. And I think season two certainly really we begin to start to play with the other stuff. You know, season one is about individuals and, you know, there's the history side and the time travel is, you know, is a factor, but it's not a huge part of the show. You know, and there's obviously this romantic interest as well. But season two really starts to play on a larger scale. And Ron definitely plays a lot more with time and time travel and also the effects of that. So it does feel a bit like Back to the Future. Nice.

22:16Yeah. Referencing the poster behind me. I love that poster. So let's talk a little bit about influences growing up, just like what you were into, just what your sensibilities were, clearly Back to the Future. What were you into? What rocked your world as a kid? Yeah. Spielberg, I guess. Definitely. Probably not, right? Yeah, exactly. You were in the right age group. Yeah. I was a big fan of, you know, in Jonah Jones and that sort of thing as well. And I guess Bond films, you know, I grew up, we had a black and white television that you had to sort of tune in with a dial. I think we had only maybe four channels, three channels.

22:52And we were only allowed to watch one show a night. A very strict parent. But it was great. And so Star Trek for me, and that's obviously Ron Moore was involved in that Star Trek Next Generation. But also theater as I got older, it was a big, big influence for me. And I think that's kind of where I got the passion. Did anybody in your family, was anybody in your family in the business at all? or did it surprise everybody that Young Sam wanted to get on a stage and do this kind of thing? Young Sam. I have a rather artistic family, so I guess they were quite pleased. But it also actually warned me a lot that this is a career that could be very difficult to get into and you're never going to make any money and you're going to be miserable.

23:36But no, it's been great. They sort of kept me grounded. So what was the first professional kind of gig? You were acting in school. When did it go from fun to potential career? I joined a youth theatre in Scotland. And then I went to drama school, Royal Scottish Academy. I think it's called Royal Conservatoire now. Yes, sounds very classy. Very classy. And I guess that's where it all changed for me. I was very lucky in my second year. I got asked to do a play that was in the Edinburgh Festival. And we transferred to London at the Royal Court. And I got nominated for an Olivier Award, which was incredible.

24:16And I think that's, you know, the point. So then I got an agent and things started to go from there. But, yeah, just very lucky to be, you know, chosen or to have that sort of opportunity. Was the dream to come here to the States or would you have been content to simply work in Scotland, work in the UK, wherever, and make your life there? Because plenty obviously do and can. Yeah. Yeah, actually, you know, I guess as you start to dream bigger, you know, your aspirations get bigger. But I initially, you know, was captivated by theatre and, you know, learned who was running which theatre and what plays I wanted to do.

24:54And I think that for me was definitely the draw. But then as you get into it, certainly at drama school, you start to get seen for jobs. You start to hear about other success stories. And that makes you dream bigger. And I, you know, I do remember walking down the streets, you know, after school sort of dreaming about being in Band of Brothers or, you know, being in a hit TV show. So it's very strange to actually be back in Scotland, you know, where it all began and be in an American TV show. Does it still apply to dream bigger when you're on this scale where you're having phenomenal success with a show that's like, again, really resonating with millions and millions of people?

25:30Do the aspirations get higher? to like you know i mean you mentioned growing up with indiana jones and bond and your name has come up for things like bond etc which is great i mean amazing and must be like it's funny yeah honestly i think i guess yes um i can't say too much but you know i'm having some meetings at the moment they're all very exciting and um it feels it feels like i'm in a moment yeah it feels very lucky um so i guess it does you know and it's all down to outlander you know it's certainly opened up a lot a lot of opportunity and kind of give me a good exposure as well have you uh could you imagine yourself in a superhero movie i feel like this is the question i have to ask everybody contractually in 2016 i think absolutely i i've actually played batman i know yeah bruce wayne in a weird live actual thing which you know um to be honest i think is is more difficult than maybe on film because you've literally got your your quick changes and you're and you're live and you can't you can't mess it up and it's very physical show so uh but yeah i would love another i'd love another lycra suit pretty cool to hang up in the wardrobe why not um was uh well i'm curious like what's the so you mentioned like spielberg today are you big you consume a lot of film tv what do you have time for um do you know i don't i mean i try and watch as much as i can um but when you're shooting it's very difficult you know we have long days and then you get home in the evening and you need to you need to learn scenes for the next day or go over stuff that's coming up so you know downtime is is um it's kind of taken up but weekends i do try and get to to the cinema um and i do occasionally binge yeah uh but yeah a mix of things and actually you know on this press tour i've managed to have a lot of time on airplanes so i've been catching Nice.

27:20Anything you've binged on recently that you were into? Binged on Jessica Jones. Oh, it's really good, right? Yeah, it's amazing. I love it. I think it's... David Tennant in that, by the way. Tennant's so scary. I mean, I didn't realize it was him in the first episode, and you just hear his voice, and it's quite dark, quite ominous, and I think Kristen Ritter, I actually had the opportunity to meet her the other day, and I think she's terrific in the show. We'll be right back with more Happy, Sad, Confused.

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