Samantha Morton

0:00Acting saved my life, but without being too heavy. I also am a firm believer in God and I think that my faith gave me the ability to feel loved when human beings in society were pretty cruel. And if you still feel loved, that you are worthy and that you have a right to be here and that you're a child of the universe or a child of God or whatever you want to call it, then you feel lucky. You just feel lucky. You don't feel sorry for yourself. You don't feel bad. You're just like, this rocks. Life is actually pretty cool. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins.

0:41Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the show, one of the true standout performances in the Odyssey. We are highlighting the great Samantha Morton today. An amazing career. Sweet and Lowdown, Minority Report, two Oscar nominations and maybe another to come for this one. Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out the podcast. We've been really diving into the Odyssey a lot. We, of course, had Matt Damon and Chris Nolan for some brief conversations. And today it is the deep dive with one of the great actors, Samantha Morton. If you know, you know she's accumulated quite the filmography and we dive into quite a bit of it today.

1:15Before we get to that, though, a quick reminder, as always, remember to check out the Patreon, patreon.com slash happy, sad, confused. Early access to every episode, including this one in the space-time continuum. You would have seen this already. Trust me. You also get access to our live events in New York and Los Angeles, merch, bonus materials, all sorts of fun stuff. Check it out. Patreon.com slash HappySagConfused. OK, so a little bit more on Samantha Morton. If you listen to this podcast, you know her work, but I'm just going to say it. She's been one of those like consistently maybe under the radar performance performers for many decades now, dating back to her breakout leading role alongside Sean Penn in the Woody Allen movie Sweet and Lowdown.

1:57She got an Oscar nomination for that. She then got an Oscar nomination for In America. But you've seen her in Minority Report, in The Walking Dead, in so much on television and film. She's one of those people that is just always reliable. And maybe we take for granted a little bit. Well, we don't take her for granted after seeing The Odyssey, because in a film filled with standout sequences, for my money, the Circe sequence, she plays Circe, is a true moment. It's a true, I don't know, exhibition of horror and acting and all the tools that Christopher Nolan and his actors bring to the fore. It's an amazing sequence that people have been talking about since it started the screen.

2:39And I think it is going to get Samantha some hopefully justifiable awards attention as the season continues. It's a long way to go, but she, for my money, delivers one of the best scene-stealing performances of the year so far. So, without any further ado, she's so sweet. She's so honest. She's such a great actor. I'm so thrilled she came on the podcast for the very first time. It is me and Samantha Morton. Enjoy. Samantha Morton, should we do this? Hello. It's so nice to meet you. It's great to meet you. Long-time fan, first-time caller. I'm so thrilled to have you on Happy, Say it, Confused for the first time and for a very good cause.

3:16Congratulations on the Odyssey, but we're going to cover a lot today. This is your life, Samantha Morton. Oh, my goodness. Okay, hello. Right. First of all, we were just talking before. You're not a New Yorker anymore, but you have spent some time here. You used to be. Yeah, I was here. I was lucky. I came, I was on the side of a bus because I was doing like an A &E show when I was 19. I played Jane Eyre. And so, and I'd also done like Emma before I played Harriet. And they, I think Kate Beckinsale couldn't do the press in LA for whatever reason. So I got her ticket to go to LA. And I loved that.

3:50And then I got to come with Jane Eyre, and I didn't leave. I was naughty. I just, I kind of sofa surfed, and then I got a job. And then I got another job, and then I got another job, and then I got a visa, and I stayed. And not so long thereafter, in the sequence of events, a film I love was in America, which was obviously shot here. Yeah, that was a long time ago. Some of it was shot here, yeah, and then the rest in, And we doubled, Dublin doubled for Alphabet City. I think it was freezing. We were like in shorts and T-shirt with everyone spraying us like we were really hot. And yeah, it was.

4:28Well done. Movie magic. Worked on young Josh Horowitz. I was thrilled. And you were saying, we were saying before we do bond because we both are proof that you don't have to drive to function as an adult. No, I never learn how to drive. And I think that's because I've been acting since I was 12. So I left school at 12, appalling education. Because back then on film sets in England, you didn't get a tutor. So I just carried on working. And then I was, it sounds really whatever, but I was always on a minibus or had a driver. Right. Because these TV shows, you just get driven to work and then driven home.

5:00And because touch wood, lucky for me, I've always worked. I've never got the time to learn how to drive. Well, if both our careers hit a horrible moment, which they won't, but maybe we could take driving lessons together. We can help each other. Like a crash course. excuse the word crash let's avoid the crashing yeah they call them crash courses i don't know they do they do um the reason that brings you here today is a very good reason um you're part of like a true phenomenon we're in the middle as we tape this the odyssey has just opened just a couple days ago it is a global sensation already the reviews could not be better and you are getting some much well-deserved praise thank you thank you so much thank you i mean in a career of you've had some great successes and you've had the ups and the downs like every actor does.

5:49Can you contextualize what this means to you at this moment right now?

5:55Hope and faith that I suppose if you keep at it that and you keep producing good work and that the right people see it then maybe you can carry on working because I've had times when I haven't worked for a year since making the odyssey you know and i've got really good agents and a manager but but at the end of the day i'm 49 and i've whilst i'm a really i do believe i'm a good actor there are other good actors out there do you know what i mean so the politics of the industry has changed massively so what this means to me first of all regardless of carrying on working which i feel confident that you know with the ups and the downs i will keep working till i'm in my 80s or whatever touch wood But it's more that for me, I got to work with Christopher Nolan in my lifetime that that that's it.

6:47That's that's I'm I'm happy now. Like, I mean, I was happy before. I've worked with some brilliant people, but you're always at the mercy as an actor of who your employer is and what they what they expect of you and what they believe in you to do for them. and and without sounding corny I genuinely cried when I got the call from my team saying Christopher Nolan would like to meet you and I John Papsodera I I know believes in me and and I just didn't I just just even being in a room with him to talk to him to listen to him I'm of like yourself I'm obsessed with cinema I have been since I was very very little it's my savior it's my life it's um if I wasn't an actress I'd do anything on a film set just to watch the magic and just watch it happen so and it's the odyssey you know so being part of something that is bigger than any individual is really important in this day and age it's because we live in the age of the eye the me the the instagram the the selfie the the ego and the odyssey is the opposite of that it's it's a human a deeply human spiritual experience for me personally when i saw the film for the first time so to be part of that is incredible obviously it's awesome everybody's telling me that it's done really well this weekend and i think for universal and for Chris and Emma that's I'm just so so unbelievably happy for them well it's funny because you talk about like I mean your body work is amazing and we'll talk about about some of it but like no matter what how successful you are I mean it's very illuminating a very eye-opening to hear what you say which is that like even at the stage of your career it's it's out of your control you're only as you're dependent on a phone call on an email on someone seeing something in you at the right time and yeah the meaning of getting like you had no previous relationship with christopher nolan as far as i know never met before no and in fact years ago i was uh to get my equity card i was a magician's assistant and so worked very hard at that and so when they were doing the prestige and i knew they were doing that and i'm obsessed with magic and i asked my agents could i get an audition and i didn't get an audition or anything obviously at the point of, I mean, come on, it's fine.

9:11But I was like, oh, but he's doing a film about, and I was obsessed with Tesla. It was meant to be, yeah, oh wow. You know, who isn't, and David Blaine, and you know, yeah. It took 20 more years, but you've got the right part for the right film. Yeah. Do you believe in kind of like that kind of fate thing when it comes to your career, that like the right part finds the right actor at the right time? I'm not sure. I think that life and art have a really bizarre way of intertwining. And what's for you won't pass you. But sometimes it's hard to know that in the time. Because there have been times when things haven't worked out.

9:49And I've been very sad, both creatively and financially, because I have three children and a mortgage and life. And, oh, it's a shame about that. But ultimately, I think if you are earnest and you have dignity and compassion and, as I say, you're a good egg and you keep being a good egg, hopefully the rules of something make it that you do get these moments to cherish forever because they're few and far between. And I think becoming very successful at 16, which is what happened to me in England, where I couldn't walk down the street and the fame was weird. I then retreated. I didn't like it. And I wanted to be in cinema.

10:32That was my dream. And then so I actively sought to only do independent cinema when I first got an American agent. Refused all of the big movies that were coming my way because I just wanted to work with filmmakers rather than a machine. And I'm not to say that that isn't an amazing opportunity either, but it just didn't suit my temperament at the time. And I felt that they would be better with somebody that knew how to play the game rather than somebody wondering about direction or shots. Do you know what I mean? So then, yeah, I think it worked out for the best. We'll be right back with more Happy, Say, Confused.

11:19So some of you may think what you see and hear on the podcast is the total me. The truth is I get super stressed like everybody else. Work challenges, the health of a loved one, it can all feel pretty overwhelming. That's why I'm so happy Rula is an ongoing sponsor for happy, sad, confused. It's one thing to find a therapist you like, but then you learn the problem of actually making sure that they take your insurance. Then there are all those online therapy platforms, right? But the truth is that many of them don't work with insurance. and then you're looking at huge out-of-pocket costs. So guess what?

11:51Now you can add money stress to the rest of your problems, not with Rula. Their average copay is just 15 bucks per session and that's because they partner with over 100 insurance plans and it's real therapy from licensed professionals. This should be how insurance works after all, right? You use your insurance benefits to maintain your physical health. Why shouldn't you do the same for your mental health? And Rula knows that in order to provide you with the best care, they have to consider your goals and preferences and backgrounds so that you can get a curated list of licensed in-network therapists who are actually aligned with what you need.

12:25Because finding the right therapist can make all the difference. No wait lists. Appointments are available as soon as tomorrow and you're not on your own, guys. Rula sticks with you throughout the journey. They check in to make sure that your care is helping you as you move forward. So go to Rula.com slash happy to get started today. That's R-U-L-A dot com slash happy for quality therapy that's covered by insurance. Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high quality therapy that's actually covered by insurance. Visit Rula dot com slash happy to get started. And after you sign up, you'll be asked how you heard about them.

12:58Please support our show and let them know we sent you. That's Rula, R-U-L-A dot com slash happy. You deserve of mental health care that works with you, not against your budget.

13:09Samantha Morton:The war is over and both sides lost. Kingdoms were reduced to cinders and armies scattered like bones in the dust. Now the survivors claw to what's left of a broken world, praying the darkness chooses someone else tonight. But in the shadow dark, the darkness always wins. This is old school adventuring at its most cruel. Your torch ticks down in real time, and when that flame dies, something else rises to finish the job. This is a brutal rules-light nightmare with a story that emerges organically based on the decisions that the characters make. This is what it felt like to play RPGs in the 80s, and man, it is so good to be back.

13:53Samantha Morton:Join the Glass Cannon podcast as we plunge into the shadow dark every Thursday night at 8 p.m. Eastern on youtube.com slash the glass cannon with the podcast version dropping the next day. See what everybody's talking about and join us in the dark.

14:14Let's talk a little bit about this specific role and why people are talking about it. I mean, it's in a film filled with standout sequences. The Cersei sequence stands out. It is, to say the least. Do you get the full script? Do you get like, how is it presented to you? Does Chris get on the phone with you or you just get a script or what happened? No, I was invited to meet Chris and I went to meet him in Los Angeles and we spoke about, well, I think I probably spoke too much because I'm a chatterbox and once I start, I'm like a Pringle, once you pop me, you can't stop me. so I was chattering away about cinema I mean I am really really am a fan is the wrong word but I am a fan a huge admirer and deeply respectful of the work that he's made and it's really affected me and so just chatting away and then I read the script and then I met Emma and then I was I didn't know the book I'd heard of it and I think I'd seen a Simpsons you know they did an episode in the Simpsons Most people know what Cape Fear and many other pop culture totems.

15:24And I just was very emotional after reading the script. I was kind of galvanized. I was just so, for want of a better word, I was pumped up. I was just full of fury and love and hope and anger. And I was a ball of emotion and kind of communicated with him, I suppose, about my feelings about Circe and the script. And I think that made okay, made good. And he said, would I play Cersei? Did you have an immediate take on what you wanted to do with a character? No, I don't ever do that. I wouldn't dream of forcing anything upon creativity. And that, the spontaneity of... Looking at other actors in the eye and feeling the atmosphere, right?

16:14Listening, feeling, responding. and also being directed, listening to my director, what they need and want, and also just seeing what happens. And I think if you do, if you show due diligence with the prep, and a lot of that is trust and believing that if you, so like for me reading the script or reading Circe's part, my initial feelings and my it's like you can see someone like you recognize them and I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a part of me in there because I always give a bit of you know like trivial pursuit part you know the little bits of the cheese or the pie have you I've always just gone there's no point I don't know how to act I didn't go to drama school I was an extra and then I got one line in something and then I got two lines in something and then so So I've learned on the job by watching other actors, you know, being I was lucky to work at the Royal Court Theatre when I was younger, learning from great directors and then learning how to action my script, which was a Max Stafford Clark thing that Ian Rixon taught me.

17:25And then just learning on the job. And the one thing I find absolutely frustrating and terrifying is when I'm working with another actor and they do it the same every time because they've learned it a certain way and they can't undo it. all the work was in the trailer and nothing's happening or there's a there's a some kind of rigid formation to what they're sticking to and there's no fun in that there's no there's no danger and I'm quite attracted to failing or or being vulnerable or um like sod it excuse me like let's do it this for me okay just tell me like you know and then well the excitement of that high wire act where you're like this close to failure and this close to success must be giving in yeah giving in and then and the feeling of making your director happy or you know everything worked and so yeah i didn't have an idea other than just an instinct instinctive feeling about her that then on set kicked in i mean this has already become like legend we're early early days of talking about how the sequence was made but Chris has talked about how much like it only happened once before with Heath Ledger there was this kind of spontaneous applause for you at the end of a certain take that doesn't happen as I understand it much on a set does that stick out to you as a very distinct memory I mean what did you feel not really at the time and I I think it's because the set was so private and a lot of the crew couldn't actually be in that room there There wasn't the, with all the guys, there wasn't the space.

19:04So I think a lot of that was happening offset. But the other actors responded to something I did that I was in the zone though. I got to tell you, I was gone. I'm not schizophrenic, touch wood at this point. But I was. You were full Circe. I was there. And so I just didn't know if we were going to go again. So I didn't break out because if you needed to go again, I needed to stay in the zone. So I think I just remember just having this warm feeling in my tummy that we got it. And it's more for me, it wasn't just about, oh, they were happy with my performance. It was like, you know, we're working with IMAX here.

19:39What's sound? And the special effects that I'm dealing with. So if every element works, we've got it. If everybody's happy, you're just like, yeah. You mentioned the effects. And there's so much curiosity about how this was even achieved. what can you say about like what was on set? Is it all practical? Yes. That seems impossible, but I believe you. But that's amazing. Yeah, but I think that you, again, I told you about being a magician's assistant. I also grew up being obsessed with horror. I mean, obsessed. And The Exorcist is possibly my favorite film of all time. And then you're going into 2001 and then probably Interstellar, you know, like that world for me.

20:30And I grew up, my stepdad had an illegal video store. So I was watching, you know, The Witch, a.k.a. Superstition, or The Evil Dead and, you know, and Night of the Living Dead. And I've always been obsessed with creatures. And I watched it far too young, but American Wealth in London. And when Jack transforms in that front room in the flat in London, it blew my mind. and that's the movie magic for me so to be you know and I was a dancer when I grew up in a gym now so all these things to be able to physically work with the practicals is everything to me I love it I'm excited and Chris gave me lots of pointers and we had rehearsals and and also for Circe this idea that she it isn't sexual but it's sensual and I wanted it to feel as this magic is happening if I don't believe it you're not going to believe it and I don't just believe it I know I've done it does that make sense so and I think that then the dance the the it's like almost like before I got more proper work as an actor I was studying for a small amount of time to be an aromatherapist so working with you know essential oils and and and friends and family that would let me give them massages and understanding the meridians in the body and you know how things flow and no and just so really working with these actors and then the practical special effects so that it was like we were one and making it sensual and enjoying it and yeah I loved it.

22:12What was it like for you? Did you see the film just like in the last couple of weeks? I've seen it a few times now. Yeah. I mean, it must be. It's such an overwhelming experience. I just want to see it again. Yeah. Because I keep seeing new things. Obviously, my part was what it was and I didn't get to see the other stuff. So I'm just desperate to see it again. And yeah, the script keeps blowing my mind. And then the other performances and how, you know, questions. And I only discovered yesterday, my husband was explaining to me about the puppetry with the Cyclops. And I was like, that was a puppet.

22:49You know, Joe Wright, the director, his parents ran the Little Angel Puppet Theater in Islington. And I love marionettes. And so I used to take my daughter, who's 26 now, used to take her to the Little Angel Puppet Theater. and I just love, it's magic, isn't it? It's beautiful. When it's done the way he has done it and few can operate on that level. When I talked to him recently, he talked about Guillermo del Toro and learning from him and treating these monsters as... But The Dark Crystal when I grew up was one of my favorite films. Such a haunting, mind-blowing film. Yeah, and Jim Henson. And I think for me, even like The NeverEnding Story and I'm that age group and you've got The Goonies, The NeverEnding Story and Labyrinth And these we went and, you know, we think about Tom Cruise in in was it Legend?

23:39You know, so we. Tim Curry makeup. Yeah. I wanted that role. I would want to be Tim Curry, not the princess. I was always like, they're the more exciting. But yeah, I just and I love Chris Cunningham. I've worked with Chris Cunningham. And I don't know that just I'm just talking about that. That magic bit there is I was like the cat that got the cream. So was was film. I mean, look, we can talk. we can talk about your upbringing and you've been very open about it. Like film must have been, I would imagine films that escape for all of us. Yeah. It was film, especially an escape. I used to run away from, I used to run away from children's homes with my big sister, Penny, and we would sneak in the back door of the ABC cinema in Nottingham and hide there all day.

24:22Because the outside world was pretty gruesome. And so that was our safe space. And I, my earliest memory is watching 2001 and I must've been about five and it must have been like re a rerun of it um and then i watched it over and over we watched it all day every day because it would just be played again and again and again and then i would hide behind the big velvet curtains and roll down like a roly-poly down the little bank at the front so my entire childhood was sneaking into the cinema because i couldn't afford it either as a child to escape what was going on in the real world or just you know wanting to get to the cinema.

25:01A hundred percent. A little bit of both, I would imagine, right? Did your path ever cross with Kubrick? I mean, he was still making Eyes Wide Shut. No, I'd never met him. I mean, obviously, he's, I mean, as a photographer, as well as a filmmaker, and the, I don't know, the dedication to the integrity of his craft, you know, just, it's all there. He's one of them. You kind of alluded to this earlier. I mean, is it fair to say that you view this path, this career acting as something that kind of saved you? That's something that you needed, especially? Well, there was no other option for me. I grew up in, I was taken into care as a baby because my parents weren't able to look after me.

25:48And I have nine siblings. I'm one of nine. So it was very complex childhood of my dad when he was in and out of prison. I'd be on a care order, which meant sometimes I'd be living with my dad. And then sometimes he'd go back to prison and then I'd be back in a foster home. And then at the age of about nine, there was no more foster homes. And I was made a ward of court, which is when the government then owned you. and then it was just children's homes because you're not cute anymore and you know you can't get a foster family at that point for a long period so then at about 14 I started running away and living on the streets and then at 16 I was in a homeless hostel and that was when I wrote my first play and got it put on and co-directed it with somebody and then the guy that writes called Ian Smith that ran the drama workshop that I was sometimes allowed to go to.

26:41Sometimes I was a bit naughty. I got in trouble with the police and, you know, I was a runaway. I would be stealing food and then I'd get arrested for that. And I'd be like, I was always vegetarian, which was tricky. So trying to be a homeless vegetarian kid was not. So I'd steal like vitamin tablets, you know, like, but just take one because I didn't want to be greedy and take the whole lot. But you're on camera. Anyway, I digress. But Ian gave me some train fare to go to London because he knew about an audition for a TV show. And it was a speaking role. And it was to play Runaway. Was this Band of Gold?

27:15No, this was a thing called Peak Practice, which was huge in England. It was a big, we only had like four channels, you know, like this was a big deal. They had like over 15 million viewers every week. And I just went and I learned the lines on the train. He gave me the train fare and it was to play Runaway. And I was like, I can do this. This is in my wheelhouse. I got this. Yeah. And then that week I got an agent. I got that role. I got an agent and then I did Band of Gold and the rest is history. So to answer your question in a very long winded fashion, acting saved my life. But without being too heavy, I also am a firm believer in God.

27:53And I think that my faith gave me the ability to feel loved when human beings in society were pretty cruel. And if you still feel loved that you are worthy and that you're you have a right to be here and that you're a child of the universe or a child of God or whatever you want to call it, then you feel lucky. You just feel lucky. You don't feel sorry for yourself. You don't feel bad. You're just like this rocks. Life is actually pretty cool. and it you had this attitude correct me if i'm wrong right from the start being on set of speaking your mind and like like you like you you kind of like knew your place and and wasn't shy about expressing yourself and that's unusual for young performers young women especially and that got me into a lot of trouble but i think it's because i didn't have the etiquette and i've learned that so if you haven't been to school and then you're entering an adult workplace at the age of well I did kind of soldier soldier when I was 12 and extra work and things like that and then a play at the royal court theater I was 16 and then as we just talked about there was and I didn't have parents you know 12 sets of foster parents different religions different cultures children's homes that are ran they're like carnage you know young secure units where there's bars at the window you you have to fight pretty quickly to say no to things no do not touch me no I'm not going to do that.

29:17No, I'm not going to eat meat. No, I am going to go to church. You cannot stop me from going to church. There's a whole gamut of things that people force upon you. And then when I entered the workplace, because my brother is in the military, my stepdad, who I miss and love very much, was in the military. Whilst I spoke my mind, I'm an incredibly respectful, old-fashioned girl at heart. So I would never be rude to anybody. I have manners. But if somebody is asking me to take my bra off because they want to see my nipples and I'm 16 I'm going to say no I don't want to do that please and there was one job in particular where it was a tele job the the the scene had been written that I was doing a sex scene and I was 17 at this point not 16 sorry and I was it just said Tracy Anna punter whatever is having sex and I and then these were times where you you could find the scene you know you go on set and you have a mark and it was lit already And I was like this.

30:17And you don't know, like, what shot, what size of the frame, what they seeing. And this one particular director wanted to see my private, my chest. And I I went back to my caravan to go to the bathroom and I shared it with three other women because he's the England, you know. And one of the older actresses who, Geraldine James, who's an absolute amazing woman, said, Sam, come here. And she got some corn plasters that you put on your toes. And she said, let's put them here. So she put them on my nipples so that when I went to set and I took my shirt off, that I didn't have to do that. But that's where I was considered difficult.

30:58Which nowadays you have intimacy coaches. You might even. Or guardrails for all these things. Yeah. Or you might have somebody saying, we can communicate. The camera doesn't need to see that. So I actually didn't mind nudity when I was younger, so long as it served a purpose for the character or the director was, you know, like with Under the Skin with Karen Adler or Morvan Caller with Lynn Ramsey, that these filmmakers are the body. The human body is beautiful. We look at art. We look at paintings, photography. But when it's done because somebody is lazy and salacious and it's just the 90s were this was 1994, 95 kind of times.