Stephen Root

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14:28Stephen Root:We've been on a lot of different sorts of projects, but maybe none that have kind of like had this kind of scrutiny, meaning like probably Reddit boards and fan theories and kind of like suppositions and ideas.

14:40Josh Horowitz:It's a who killed JR.

14:42Stephen Root:Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So have you dived into that at all? Are you aware at all of like the fan theories out there?

14:49Josh Horowitz:I get told them by my wife and by her friends that send them to her. But no, I don't delve into them myself. But I think a lot of them are really interesting. I don't think they have anything to do with the show.

15:03Stephen Root:It's a whole different part of the story.

15:05Josh Horowitz:But I applaud that they're thinking about it so hard and that they can see a lot of the little clues that come up in the first viewing of the show. I think a lot of people have seen the show two and three times because they can go back to the beginning and say, oh, look at that thing on the wall. That was the thing that was the thing with the thing. The thing with the thing.

15:29Stephen Root:So I mentioned, look, season two, we're going to get one. That's amazing. Yeah. Are you the type of actor that, like, you've been in some ongoing series, obviously. Like, do you say stuff to Katie about what you'd like to see, or do you put yourself in the hands of Katie?

15:42Josh Horowitz:Well, I've told Katie that I really want to see more backstory, because you already care about these characters now. And I think if you have even deeper backstories about them in season two, whether that's through a flashback or through exposition, however she wants to do it, But I think it's going to mean a lot to people who have embraced these characters and want to know more about them.

16:06Stephen Root:The meaningfulness of this for you at this stage in your career. Look, you had a great success a few years back with Barry. Yeah, I loved that show. Amazing show.

16:15Josh Horowitz:Loved Bill, loved Hero, loved everybody on it.

16:17Stephen Root:So that resulted in your long overdue first Emmy nomination. Yes. You've gotten your second for this one. Are those both meaningful moments? Look, you've been a jobbing actor, like a very successful actor for decades.

16:29Josh Horowitz:Yeah, I've been a journeyman working actor for a long time. And that was my goal as a young actor, was to be a working actor. Yeah, of course it does, because it means your peers appreciate your work. And that's everything. As I think all of us on Barry said, the recognition for the show and the recognition for many individuals on the show was the win. That's the win is if you got nominated. And so I feel the same way about this. I'm thrilled that I just wanted the show to get nominated because it so deserved it. And it was a nice plethora of yahoos that I got nominated myself.

17:18Stephen Root:But you do know, look, to blow some smoke for a second, Like the meaning you have to people, it's like you've had this kind of sneaky cumulative effect, I think, on all of us that have grown up. Like I look, I've grown up loving movies and TV and theater. And like you were intrinsically a part of the last 25 years of my love of pop culture. Thank you. Truly. And like we're going to rattle a bunch off in the course of this conversation. No, we will. Sorry. This is your wife, Stephen Root. But like the fact that you can like go down the street and go into Starbucks and like 10 different roles could come up.

17:51Stephen Root:Yes, maybe more Miltons than others, but you mean something different to a lot of different people for different things.

17:57Josh Horowitz:I appreciate that. And I was on the plane last night sipping my soda water. And I had just gone to the restroom, come back, and one of the flight attendants came over and said, I recognize your voice. Are you an actor? And to be recognized for your voice was a big, big deal. I mean that's great that she recognized that from King of the Hill. Of course. And she knew I was an actor and did other stuff, but that's what she liked. So being stopped for those kind of genuine pleasure people is fantastic.

18:37Stephen Root:What's the most obscure ones that come up? Like I know the ones that…I can guess the ones that definitely come up. Office Space, News Radio, etc.

18:44Josh Horowitz:Right.

18:45Stephen Root:What's the last so random one like really you saw me in that you remember me in that?

18:50Josh Horowitz:Anything come to mind? I had a wonderful message from Nick Offerman the other day. He said your work in George Saunders vigil for the for the book was fantastic. Thank you pal. I mean I love the guy but that's not something that you would you would expect.

19:14Stephen Root:One great voice to another.

19:15Josh Horowitz:One great voice to another. But that was a thrill. Let me see if I can think of something even odder than that.

19:28Josh Horowitz:I think somebody came up to me one time during the Christmas season and said, no, I loved you in Surviving Christmas.

19:38Stephen Root:A sentence that has never been uttered.

19:41Josh Horowitz:It's like, did I do that? I don't remember. Okay. Okay. Thank you. I think I went through a machine or something on that. I don't remember. Oh, my God.

19:52Stephen Root:Well, you do have over 300 credits on the IMDb. I do. What percentage of those would you recommend I see? What percentage are you proud of?

20:01Josh Horowitz:I'm proud of, I would say, really. I'm extremely proud of, say, maybe 20%. That's pretty good. Just because of the longevity of the career. Of course. Otherwise it would be nearer 10, but I've been around for 40 years. So it's a long time. Not quality sometimes.

20:19Stephen Root:Sometimes. No, you have both. You have both. No, Tom Hanks famously said like a few years back, he's like made four or five great movies, which, okay, Tom. Yeah. Okay, Tom.

20:28Josh Horowitz:Then maybe more. But yeah, I think probably the worst review I've gotten was the, I think about a year ago I saw something about Stephen King's golden years. Do you remember that series? And they said, I don't know why Steven Root was in this. It seemed odd.

20:50Stephen Root:Maybe that's speaking to your quality, saying he deserved better kind of a thing. Let's take it that way.

20:55Josh Horowitz:Let's take it that way, that you made it a little better.

20:59Stephen Root:Do you embrace, I mean, I talk to some actors that resist the character actor label. They do.

21:05Josh Horowitz:I don't. I think I am so proud of it. Yeah, no, I'm the guy that wants to watch It's a Wonderful Life for the character actors and the meat, you know, for the bank examiner who comes in in the last scene. And Jimmy Stewart's like, my brother, he's flying through a snowstorm. Can you believe that? And the bank examiner says, yeah, well, I guess they do those things. which is well i come back for that one line for the movie for the character actors yeah the color

21:41Stephen Root:yeah well they give the texture they give the reality it was there ever an aspiration like have you ever been the lead in a film like was there ever like a want for like oh i'd really

21:52Josh Horowitz:like that you know i've gotten close to doing that um and and a couple of indies that have We tried to make that happen where I was the number one, but we were never satisfied with the script and or when it was going to happen. But I'm still amenable to it. But I am the laziest actor in Hollywood because I like to go work and then I like to go home and pet the dog. And then I like to go into the jacuzzi every once in a while. And then I like to go play golf and then I like to work a little bit.

22:28Stephen Root:Sounds like a good life.

22:29Josh Horowitz:It's a great life. I don't know how it happened.

22:33Stephen Root:Let's talk a little bit about how it happened. You're good at segues. Well done.

22:37Josh Horowitz:Okay.

22:37Stephen Root:Okay. So growing up, this was not the aspiration. You're a little bit of a late bloomer. It's not till college that you kind of discover girls and drugs, essentially.

22:47Josh Horowitz:Girls and drugs and acting, finally. Yes.

22:49Stephen Root:Exactly.

22:50Josh Horowitz:Do I have the story down? You do have the story down. And I don't think without the drugs, which weren't hard drugs, there was marijuana. There's a little hash involved sometimes. But I think without them, I mean, I was such a pull-up-my-butt, straight, Midwestern kid. And I think I needed to just get kicked in the head a little bit to loosen me up. And that did loosen me up. And within a couple of years after that, taking an elective for some student directors, and being able to say, well, just go, you're gonna just say these words. I go, that's fun, I like that. And within six months I was in the BFA program.

23:37Stephen Root:And early validation, like did you feel like were people saying to you, stick with this? Or you were just feeling that on stage?

23:44Josh Horowitz:No, I was feeling it, but I got early validation from people, because I did, mostly comedy when I was in college, because in college you can play 75-year-olds. You know, you have to, because there's no 75-year-olds in the freshman class. But I did a lot of comedy. I did Shakespeare. I did Grumio. I did Guys and Dolls. I did Nicely, Nicely in Guys and Dolls. I got a lot of nice recognition from that, from people. And so I felt very validated. I worked in the State Theater, the Hippodrome, which is the State Theater of Florida, a lot. So yeah, I got a lot of nice validation early on.

24:28Stephen Root:And so what do your, in a nutshell, what do your 20s look like? Your regional theater, running around, are you doing side hustles? What's that?

24:37Josh Horowitz:Yeah, well I went straight from the University of Florida to New York City, because I got the National Shakespeare Company, which is a bus and truck that came out of New York City. We'd rehearse three shows in Woodstock in 1976, and then we'd take them out on the road for nine months doing little colleges, small places, sometimes huge places. I remember playing West Point, 5 ,000-seat house. They had to close the curtains so far in to make us look like something on stage. But yes, doing double cast in three shows, doing it for nine months. I mean, there's nothing better in terms of learning your craft.

25:24Stephen Root:So that's like, because I've talked to a lot of actors. Look, there's like, especially nowadays, it feels like most actors just like break right out. Like they're 17 and suddenly they're on like a Netflix show or whatever. Right. But like so many folks I talk to, it's like J.K. Simmons was just here. It's like the folks that kind of do the 10 ,000 hours where we never saw it. And by the time I start to see you or JK or somebody on screen, you're a fully formed, fully formed working actor.

25:51Josh Horowitz:Exactly. Right. You've got the chops. I've gotten I've gotten. And to answer your question, yes, it was regional theaters all over over the East Coast and finally doing some off Broadway and then some Broadway. and after my second, third Broadway show, I got the national tour of Driving Miss Daisy, which was sensational. And that's two years of watching people do great things.

26:24Stephen Root:And then you have the iconic one-two punch of Monkey Shines and Crocodile Dundee 2.

26:30Josh Horowitz:That's when I was still living in New York.

26:32Stephen Root:That kind of sets off your film and TV career. Yeah,

26:37Josh Horowitz:that was great, doing both of those things, because it was a nice part in Crocodile Dundee and Monkey Shined. Crocodile Dundee 2, let's not. Sorry, I didn't mean to take out, because that's all I did in the early days, because then after that I did RoboCop 3. Right.

26:54Stephen Root:Everybody who skips the RoboCop 3, yeah, that's the one to get to see. Forget the Verhoeven one, go write the 3.

26:59Josh Horowitz:Yeah. But after doing those things and then doing Ghost, I got to do a little part in Ghost. It's like, oh, well, I'm off and running. Then the next movie I did was many years later.

27:13Stephen Root:You registered with Ghost. I always remember that scene in Ghost. It's like you're the most empathetic. It's a very soft-spoken.

27:20Josh Horowitz:It's a very nice soft thing with Demi. Demi had just had a kid. I had just had a kid, so we just talked about babies off screen.

27:27Stephen Root:Yeah. And that movie was a very shocking phenomenon at the time. Absolutely. Those that did not live through it. Ghost was the movie of that summer.

27:35Josh Horowitz:Absolutely. Summer blockbuster with visual effects at the time that were startling.

27:41Stephen Root:Yeah.

27:42Josh Horowitz:Yeah.

27:42Stephen Root:And directed by like one of the like Abrams or Zucker. Like it was like the airplane guy did like a ghost movie.

27:50Josh Horowitz:Exactly.

27:51Stephen Root:Yeah. So off of Ghost, it wasn't smooth sailing.

27:54Josh Horowitz:It was, you know, it was going to finally to L.A. to try your hand at more film and obviously TV, which I hadn't done.

28:07Stephen Root:At what point, wait, we'll get to the news radio and King of the Hill, which is kind of the next, obviously, markers. When does your, you were technically in Kindergarten Cop. I did not see you in Kindergarten Cop.

28:19Josh Horowitz:Oh, that's because my five scenes were cut out. But I did get Arnold saying, you're fucking funny. So that's okay.

28:28Stephen Root:That's the win. Yeah, that's the win. Five scenes is not an insignificant amount of screen time.

28:32Josh Horowitz:It is not. But same thing happened to me and White Oleander. Yeah. I had about as many scenes, but this decided to start the movie after that subplot.

28:44Stephen Root:When you told, hopefully you don't get to the premiere. It's not one of those situations.

28:47Josh Horowitz:No, it was really nice. both directors called and said, look, we loved what you did, but we're going to start the movie later and see ya.

28:57Stephen Root:So was the kindergarten cop role like when he's still a cop before he gets to like the kids? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

29:05Josh Horowitz:I think I am still in that movie, but it's just my elbow. So I still get residuals from it, which is fine.

29:16Stephen Root:Wait, I do want to mention as a super geek, of course, Comic-Con, you know, I'm always there. You do have some Comic-Con credits. I was looking at the credits. You were not only in a Star Trek episode, you were in a very important Star Trek The Next Generation episode.

29:28Josh Horowitz:I was. It was the first time the two shows had crossed, the original and next gen.

29:33Stephen Root:I went to Star Trek conventions. I remember when this episode was a big deal.

29:36Josh Horowitz:It was a two-parter, unification. Two-parter, unification part one and two. Yes, sir. Wow, you know your stuff. Oh, no, no. I was hardcore.

29:44Stephen Root:You're a Klingon.

29:45Josh Horowitz:I'm a Klingon.

29:46Stephen Root:get to share scenes what was my name something with a K

29:50Josh Horowitz:yes exactly right do you know it Kavada

29:56Stephen Root:do you still know any Klingon do you remember any Klingon

29:58Josh Horowitz:I don't remember I remember everybody in and around that universe said well there's a whole Klingon you know vocabulary and book and we got there and I had to say a couple of Kavadosh you know and they said well just make it up it's very easy What's wrong with you?

30:17Stephen Root:Just make it up. Yeah, it's totally easy. Just sound really angry, like you're broke, basically.

30:21Josh Horowitz:Yeah, and I'm not taking away from the people who know that good stuff, but I didn't have time to learn it.

30:28Stephen Root:Are moments like that, I don't know if you were a Trek fan growing up or whatever. Of course. So is that meaningful?

30:34Josh Horowitz:In fact, in college, first couple of years before I was in the theater department, It was Derogare to go down to the quad in the meeting room to watch Star Trek at 3.30 in the afternoon every day.

30:49Stephen Root:Oh, yeah.

30:49Josh Horowitz:Absolutely.

30:50Stephen Root:So what are the jobs, I'm curious, that are like most meaningful? Maybe not even about the actual role, but just like getting the call. Oh, I get to be in Star Trek, a Stephen King thing, a Boba Fett. Right. Are any of those like job avenues?

31:05Josh Horowitz:Well, Boba Fett was a big deal because my son is a huge, huge fan, huge Boba Fett fan. And I got the call for that from John and he said, come in and do this. And so I printed out the two pages that I had and I had my son come over and I said, okay, this is me and this is who I'm playing with today. And he freaked out. And so did I. And it was so fun to go over and, you know, enter that universe. Yeah.

31:35Stephen Root:So I referenced before, I guess it's kind of the one-two punch in a couple years, like 95, 97, is when you start, 95 is news radio begins. Right. Which is a long run of that, 100 episodes of that.

31:47Josh Horowitz:But that was not my first show. My first actual, real, not recurring, but in the cast was Hearts of the West with Bo Bridges. Oh. Bo Bridges. and it was a kind of modern western, you know, dealing with family. And it was a really, really fun show, but that was the first time I got to be a regular on a show. And for me, for my working class actor self, that was my big break. Yes, stability. But the real big break when actual people got to see you and recognize your work was NewsRadio, yes.

32:36Stephen Root:Great ensemble by RIP of the great Phil Hartman. Oh my goodness, Phil.

32:42Josh Horowitz:I can still feel him putting his tabs in his script. He put colored tabs in his script to know exactly which scene he was on. He was very meticulous.

32:52Stephen Root:Do you have a quintessential Phil Hartman memory? I mean, this is a guy that was like an all-timer on SNL, and we lost him way too young for tragic reasons, obviously.

33:01Josh Horowitz:Well, Phil used to, I mean, he was a great artist. You know he did album covers, the Poco cover. Yeah, Phil had a whole bad career before. Amazing, yeah, amazing stuff. But he would draw little things. I have a pencil drawing of him. It's a pencil drawing of Andy Dick in jail with his dick. That's about it. So, I don't know.

33:32Stephen Root:eat your heart out. You've got that and the Milton stapler. That's the nest egg. Those two things you can sell if all else goes to hell.

33:39Josh Horowitz:Absolutely. Absolutely. I can live on that, I think. But no, I got one. I said I had to have one. Mike Judge got one because obviously it's Mike Judge and we burned up the other two.

33:55Stephen Root:We'll get to office space in a second. We mentioned King of the Hill. I mean, this is one of those gifts that keeps on giving. It is.

34:01Josh Horowitz:I owe Mike Judge a vast amount of credit for my career being able to do that show for, well, I did it for 10 or 12 years. And then we had a break and now we're doing it again. But the fact that I got to enter into a family that was, we saw deaths and births and divorces and everything that a normal family feels through that. and that started, what, 96? We probably got together and the first show came out in 97. Can you understand everything that Mike Judge says?

34:38Stephen Root:He's got a very kind of like, I moderated actually a Comic-Con thing with him a year ago. Sure. And he was like three seats away from me and he's so soft-spoken. Very much.

34:50Josh Horowitz:Very shy guy. Yeah. But not when he's performing. Right. And the fact that he can split his head open and do Boomhauer and Hank without stopping. Right. He can answer himself, which he did in Beavis and Butthead, so there's reason for him to do that. But the fact that he can do it that quickly is just still astonishing to me.

35:13Stephen Root:So that famously, and I've heard kind of the tale of how that led to Office Space, which is just sort of kind of a random thing. It begins just as like a read, and you're not even going to play Milton at first, correct?

35:26Josh Horowitz:No, no, no. He took a bunch of us from King of the Hill to do the table read for Fox. I think I was originally going to read The Psychiatrist That Slumps Over and Dies, One of the Bobs. And I don't know if there was anything else, but he was going to read Milton. And when we were walking over, he said, I want to see it. Why don't you do it? And he showed me a two-minute pencil sketch. and I said okay I'll try something like that but I want to give him a lisp

35:59Stephen Root:just the tiny lip so your idea was the lisp I mean yeah the whole visage of him is iconic now just like you know the the hair the look the walk the demeanor he's and the gravy on the tie

36:15Josh Horowitz:you must you must because people come up to me and say yeah my my husband like that every day

36:23Stephen Root:do people come up to you and say like i'm milton or i know a milton like what do they say always

36:28Josh Horowitz:always that they always know a milton yeah it's better than know a milton than to be a milton i think that's why the movie was so successful i mean it showed true characters and there's everybody who has worked in an office knows exactly what the show is about and and many shows after office space are on television probably with some hint of that so it's now

36:53Stephen Root:27 years as we tape this since office space yeah is essentially it's still a daily occurrence that somebody wants to like talk about milton or do milton for you pretty much so uh i was i was

37:05Josh Horowitz:seeing a show in massachusetts uh friend that a friend was in uh and we're walking down a very small town walking down the street guy stops looks at me and says steven root uh-huh he drops his pants and shows me all of the king of the hill characters tattooed on his leg which is what a huge compliment yeah what an amazing thing he that that he loved the show so much that he had to have

37:34Stephen Root:him with him all the time crazy yeah do you you seem like pretty game to just give people milton if they want Milton. Like, have you done, like, answering machine messages? Have you had strange requests? Like, have you had, like...

37:47Josh Horowitz:Yeah, I've done a couple of answering machines, but I don't like to do them too often just because I want to protect that character, as Mike does, which is why he doesn't want to do a sequel. And I think that's correct.

38:01Stephen Root:There was never any, like, real talk of, like,

38:03Josh Horowitz:Milton's spin-off, animated show.

38:06Stephen Root:Nothing.

38:08Josh Horowitz:No, I don't think so. I love it as the perfect little package that it is. More Happy Say Confused coming up.

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38:45Josh Horowitz:This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT.

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39:19Stephen Root:Another collaboration is the Coen Brothers, which is like any actor would kill to have the opportunities you've had.

39:26Josh Horowitz:Kill is the right word. It's the right word. I so respected their work from day one. I had met Joel early on because his wife and I were doing All My Sons at the Long Wharf. But then it was strictly a straight audition after that for Oh Brother that I got to know them.

39:53Stephen Root:That began your, you've done at least two blind racist characters in your career.

39:57Josh Horowitz:It's a very Stephen Root niche. Very Stephen Root. Yeah.

40:02Stephen Root:Congratulations.

40:03Josh Horowitz:Well, if it's based on Odysseus, you know, then I'm the Cyclops. It's that scenario.

40:10Stephen Root:Did you go see The Odyssey and say, I could have done that much cheaper?

40:14Josh Horowitz:I could have. No, I can't wait to see the film, but I want to see it on IMAX. So I'm waiting till, you know, people clear out.

40:24Stephen Root:But yes, you worked with them a few times. I know Brothers the first time. I'm endlessly fascinated with them. They are arguably, for me, maybe my favorite filmmakers. They've made just dozens of great films. What's their vibe on set? Are they laughers? Do they give much direction? Ethan is a laugher.

40:42Josh Horowitz:Yeah. Joel is a that's funny. That's funny. But they're both just sweethearts.

40:52Stephen Root:Do you need and want that kind of validation at this point in your career? Did you once? Like, what do you need on a set from a director?

40:59Josh Horowitz:Oh, I always hopefully want them to let me show you my gut read and then go ahead and direct me from there. Yeah. Whether it's more or less faster, slower, or different intention. You know, that's all okay. And the boys let you do that. And they do let you have a free take at the end.

41:19Stephen Root:Yeah.

41:19Josh Horowitz:Yeah.

41:20Stephen Root:One for you. I mean, it's, you know, when I think about your career, because you are able to, there are many characters that have a lot of subtlety to them and then you go big at times when needed. Nothing in a movie like Dodgeball or Office Space is necessarily subtle, but it works. It demands that kind of performance.

41:41Josh Horowitz:It does. For Ethan, it's the one time Ethan told me to go bigger was for, what's the last movie that they did together? Oh, for Buster Scruggs. For Buster Scruggs. I was, you know, I said, this guy hasn't seen people for months. He just vomits words as quickly as he can. And that's what Ethan wanted. I said, yeah, that's fantastic. Let's do that. And I started doing it. And he said, yeah, I'm going to tell you, though, something I don't ever tell you. Go bigger. And I went as big as possible and stayed within the realm of not too crazy.

42:21Stephen Root:Well, that's exciting. I would imagine as an actor to be given that license. It is. And also to know you have the security, like they're going to take care of me in the editor.

42:28Josh Horowitz:They're going to take care. He's going to tell me if I go too crazy like I used to do.

42:34Stephen Root:How does, I mean, Dodgeball probably comes up a bit too. People love that movie. I love that movie.

42:40Josh Horowitz:That was my tribute to Rick Moranis. Oh. Absolutely.

42:44Stephen Root:That's great.

42:44Josh Horowitz:I told Ben that. I said, I want to do Rick Moranis in this movie because I so admire him. as a teacher and a comedian, and I thought he was amazing. I said, I kind of want to do him like that. Yeah.

42:59Stephen Root:On a scale of one to 10, how crazy and scary was Rip Torn? Because there's so much legend about Rip.

43:05Josh Horowitz:Crazy and scary is exactly right.

43:07Stephen Root:Yeah.

43:08Josh Horowitz:Yeah. I mean, and when he was sober, he was great. I'm not saying that he wasn't, but sometimes maybe he wasn't.

43:18Stephen Root:Yeah, some days were better than others.

43:20Josh Horowitz:Some days were better than others. Some days you didn't want to be a woman standing next to him. Oh, no. Yeah. But that's okay. It all worked out in the end. Right.

43:32Stephen Root:I know it's also important to you. I've heard you talk about this. Look, you've had this amazing lane in comedy throughout your career. But it's important to show different facets. And something like West Wing was important to you at the time.

43:44Josh Horowitz:Really important to me. because I had done so much comedy at that point that I literally had to turn down comedy guest stars and stuff. I couldn't turn down Norm Macdonald because he's one of my heroes too. But I said I don't want to get sucked into another sitcom doing the same thing that I've always done. So getting the call to do West Wing was a huge, huge thing for me. and it made me able to do more drama and more drama shows as a television actor.

44:21Stephen Root:In film too, I think of like, you know, you were directed, correct me if I'm wrong, by Redford twice.

44:27Josh Horowitz:Twice, yeah. I got to act with him once as he directed and directed by him.

44:33Stephen Root:I mean, not necessarily, you know, the most well-known ones he's did, The Conspirator and Company You Keep, I believe. Right. But still, I mean.

44:41Josh Horowitz:But amazing. He'd actually cast me in another film before that. I couldn't do it. It was doing something else. And he's very generously brought me back for The Company You Keep. Yeah.

44:57Stephen Root:Do I imagine your days of auditioning are long since gone, but were you, do you have like, do you romanticize those days when you were an auditioner? Were you a good auditioner?

45:07Josh Horowitz:I was a good auditioner because I wanted to know my lines backwards if I was going to go to an audition. Did I always hold my pages? Always did. It was a nice comfort blanket to do, but I didn't use them. And in the early days, a lot of people would come into the offices. You'd see five guys that you always see there, and they go, are there sides? You know, it's like you're not gonna get the job because you're not prepared. And I wanted to be always prepared.

45:40Stephen Root:Do you have a happiest memory of an audition? Whether you got the role or not? Like something just that felt like I had a moment.

45:46Josh Horowitz:I nailed that. Yeah. Yeah, I felt that way in my final audition for News Radio. I came in and Jimmy Burrows and Paul Sims we're looking for an older guy for that role. And I came in and Paul said, no, we really like the weirdness that you're bringing.

46:16Josh Horowitz:But Jimmy B kind of directed me personally. You know, it said, for this audition. It said, come in, do this and this and this. And I said, okay. And I was prepared to do three scenes. And I did one scene and I went, no, I gotta go. As Jimmy would say, I can't, I gotta go. And I think I felt like I had nailed that. That when I walked out the door, I feel, I think I've got this part.

46:51Stephen Root:You've literally done every kind of acting, whether it's theater, whether it's sitcoms, whether it's dramas. Animation. animation is it one size fits all in your mind like is it again just about honesty and truthfulness I think that's

47:05Josh Horowitz:a good point I mean it's all honesty and truthfulness but it's each medium is really kind of different in the terms that when you're doing a sitcom you're playing for the camera and a 200 seat audience right so coming from theater that was a nice transition I still have an audience but I get to play for the camera I'm get small sometimes. And then when you're doing a movie or a drama on television, you're basically doing the same thing. When you just, in some instances, you have time to rehearse and some you don't. So like I say, I always want to be prepared as I walk in to give you something.

47:50Josh Horowitz:I'll give you my gut, but you know, and if you don't like that, then we'll play around.

47:54Stephen Root:I mean, are there approaches to acting you see in young actors that you can't abide by? Like, are there trends of things like, oh, that's just not how I would do it? Or I don't support that. I have to say that everybody takes something from everything.

48:13Josh Horowitz:You take a little bit of method. You take a little bit of Stanislavski. You take, it's whatever, however you came up through the ranks. And if that's through Shakespeare and structured roles or through like Katie Dippold came up through UCB. So it depends on where you come from. But I think in the end, it's playing it completely honest and real.

48:43Stephen Root:Yeah.

48:43Josh Horowitz:Yeah.

48:44Stephen Root:A couple more I want to mention before I let you go. We reference quickly Barry, but we should give it a little more love because that was a remarkable series. Bill and the whole team did an amazing job.

48:55Josh Horowitz:Amazing. And the fact that Bill directed every episode in season four was astonishing.

49:02Stephen Root:No, he's a cinephile, as you well know. Oh, I know. I'm so excited to see he just directed his first feature, which I can't wait to see.

49:08Josh Horowitz:I can't wait. I took him to Musso's and tried to grill him but he wouldn't budge.

49:16Stephen Root:I hear it's a horror film. I'm very curious. Very curious. But the arc of that character, pretty remarkable as well. I mean in terms of like from where you started to where you ended up. I mean even the very beginning of that experience as I understand it was very much in flux of what that character was going to be. Very much in flux.

49:35Josh Horowitz:Yeah, the way my character was written was over the top all the time, screaming, yelling at Barry's character. And we shot that, but as HBO and Bill said, it's just nowhere to go. There's nowhere to go. So we re-shot my stuff with the emphasis on pal, buddy, how are you? And that let me start at two. And by the time we got to season four, I could go to 11. Yeah.

50:09Stephen Root:You'd earned it by then, yeah. And then something like, I wanna mention Get Out, because again, now people might forget how unexpected that was. Yeah, oh my goodness, yeah. That was his first feature directing debut. So at the time, was that sort of just like, oh, this is like a fun gig, we'll see what comes of this?

50:27Josh Horowitz:Fun B movie. Yeah. With that's, you know, it's not necessarily a horror movie, but a thriller. Yeah. You know, I love thrillers. And I think the reason that I was considered for that role is because I tried to do their show. And they cast me as such a freaking racist. I mean, this guy was a modern slave driver, as it were. And it was so out there. They never showed it. They never showed that episode. We shot it. It was too much. Because we would have the producer on the side of it going, are you sure you want to do this? And it didn't make it on. But they knew I could do that kind of role.

51:14Stephen Root:And when you see the finished plot, do you remember distinctly seeing Get Out? There must be moments when you see a finished film that exceeds even your own expectations.

51:20Josh Horowitz:First time I saw Get Out, I was just astonished at the honesty of that film. To see him cry.

51:31Stephen Root:Yeah, Daniel.

51:32Josh Horowitz:Daniel, to cry just sitting in that chair as he's going through it. And my buddy, Catherine Keener, playing with that teacup. So good. So subtle and wonderful. Yeah, no, I ran over to everybody and said, this is some of the finest work I've ever seen.

51:50Stephen Root:So you said early on you're a lazy actor, all evidence to the contrary. It seems like you're always working when you're not in the jacuzzi. I'm not. Okay. Okay. I'll take your word for it. But you do have some stuff in the can. I want to mention, did you work with Jeremy Saulnier? Yeah. I'm very curious. He's another filmmaker I'm very interested in.

52:07Josh Horowitz:Oh, I'm very interested to see how this has come out. Yeah. It's going to be, I think it's going to be really interesting.

52:14Stephen Root:Those films are pretty intense. It's very intense.

52:16Josh Horowitz:I think I don't want to spoil any of that. But yeah, it was a great working experience. And there was some interesting makeup in that film as well. Okay. Yes.

52:29Stephen Root:Okay. So what does pique your interest when you see it in a script now? Is it hard to define at this point what gets you out of the jacuzzi onto a set?

52:39Josh Horowitz:A completely, not just my part, but a completely well written script. Yeah. That's the draw always now for me. otherwise I feel like I'm wasting time on what I should be doing. So if the script is fantastic and wonderful and the person who's directing it or created it is wonderful and then who's in it, oh, okay, wonderful. Yes, I'd like to be a part of it. Yeah.

53:07Stephen Root:Is there an actor that has evaded you, a director that's evaded you that just their name on the script attached would get you?

53:15Josh Horowitz:I think they've evaded me

53:19Stephen Root:I know you said like when Quint came calling that's a moment right like are there a few there must be a few

53:25Josh Horowitz:well you know you always but when I did The Conspirator with Redford you know

53:34Josh Horowitz:the other Lincoln movie wouldn't let you anywhere near it so you know that's like oh Oh, it's Spielberg. Jeez Louise, but it's okay. It was a Redford. It's Spielberg. That's okay. But yeah, I mean, the joke is for all of us working actors, yes, you've got to book me up between here and here unless Spielberg calls. Right. You know? Right. So that.

54:04Stephen Root:We all grew up with his films. Right. I mean, he's, well, he should forgive the conspirator. Come on. It's been like 15 years. Come on, man. Okay, we're going to end with this. Happy second. Fuse profoundly random questions for you, Steve. Okay. Ready? Dogs or cats? Dogs. You mentioned your dog person, huh?

54:22Josh Horowitz:Dog person got a little chewini. A wiener dog, chihuahua. A big dog person myself. A little hell raiser.

54:31Stephen Root:I think my pit mix might have something to say to yours. Oh, I bet.

54:34Josh Horowitz:I bet that. No, he'll alpha him immediately. Doesn't matter how big the dog is. Oh, yeah. I've seen it happen. What do you collect? I was a big comic collector. Yeah? Yeah. When I was 12 and 13 and 14, I was the guy that went, Marvel Comics, this is not just stupid Superman shit. This is real people in like real situations. So I was a huge Marvel guy from the time I was a teenager till I got to college and didn't have time for it. Not that I didn't want to.

55:11Stephen Root:Did you have a favorite hero or team or anything?

55:14Josh Horowitz:I was always a Fantastic Four person. Sure. And I collected all those things in the 60s, kept them. By the time I got to New York and was a starving actor in New York, I had to sell a lot of them just to pay the rent. But I feel that was good because that kept me being an actor in New York. The only ones I said I wouldn't sell are the Fantastic Fours, and I still have them.

55:38Stephen Root:Wait, I feel like this is like the one genre you really, I mean, you've done some voiceover work. I know the superhero world. Yeah. I don't think I've seen you in a live action superhero movie.

55:46Josh Horowitz:No, no. My wife got to do it. She was in the credits of the first Avengers movie on the side of the street going, I love you, Thor.

56:01Josh Horowitz:So one part of the family has been in a Marvel show.

56:05Stephen Root:We need to get you in there. What do you want to play? Let's manifest. Oh, gosh.

56:08Josh Horowitz:Stephen, let me help you. Gosh, it would be fun to do anything, you know, in the venue that I like, the older stars, the Avengers and the Daredevils and the Spideys and all that stuff. Fantastic Four, they're making movies.

56:24Stephen Root:I mean, they're probably those.

56:24Josh Horowitz:As I would do with the Coen brothers, I'll walk across the stage and go, hello. Hello, Fantastic Four. That's fine with me.

56:33Stephen Root:Do you have a favorite, did you ever play video games, a favorite video game of all time?

56:37Josh Horowitz:I'm not a video game player because that wasn't my generation, you know, 60s. They were not around then. But I like watching my son play the big ones, you know, the GTs and all that stuff.

56:59Stephen Root:That kind of thing. Dakota Johnson asked me this. I ask everybody, would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

57:10Stephen Root:Won't be in my butt because I get squished. Thank you for giving it the serious thought it deserves. Yes. What's the wallpaper on your phone?

57:20Josh Horowitz:My wife smiling beatifically. Toughly.

57:25Stephen Root:Last actor you were mistaken for, Steven.

57:28Josh Horowitz:Hmm.

57:35Josh Horowitz:That's a tough one.

57:40Josh Horowitz:I can't think of anything offhand. Really? No.

57:43Stephen Root:No other character actor adjacent people?

57:48Josh Horowitz:No.

57:51Josh Horowitz:No.

57:55Stephen Root:I'll throw one at you. Okay. I don't see, obviously I know the difference, but I could see somebody saying, oh, Michael Stolbarg. Oh, and I love Michael. I love Michael.

58:04Josh Horowitz:Oh, my God. The best. Did you see Pillow Man when it was on Broadway back in the day? I saw it. It was the best thing ever. Anyway, yeah, but I got to work with Michael a little bit in Boardwalk Empire.

58:19Stephen Root:Right, right, right.

58:20Josh Horowitz:I can see Michael. I can see because he literally changes into whoever he's playing. He goes so deep, and I so admire it. It's great.

58:30Stephen Root:See, that's an example. Look, I do want to manifest. Look, you can do character actor roles until the cows come home, But like when someone like Michael got like a serious man, you need your serious man. I want like you front and center for a film. Let's see. Worst note a director has ever given you.

58:49Josh Horowitz:Can you do it better? Yeah, I was trying. I mean, I'm here. What are you talking about? Can you give me an actual direction?

59:00Stephen Root:Just better. And finally, in the spirit of happy, sad, confused, who's an actor who always makes you happy. See them on screen, you're in a better mood. Nick Offerman. Great. Movie that makes you sad?

59:18Stephen Root:Old Yeller. Yeah.

59:20Josh Horowitz:Classy.

59:21Stephen Root:Well, I'm from the 50s. What can I tell you? Dogs, please. And finally, a food that makes you confused? Confused.

59:32Stephen Root:Pad Thai. It seems like you started to go inside. You said it. It did. I started to shake.

59:39Josh Horowitz:What happened? Did Pad Thai wrong you at some point? No, at some point it did, and then I came back to it. Gave it a second shot. And gave it a second shot, because I think the first time was not in a place I should have had Pad Thai, some dump in London. Right. But I gave it a second shot in Chinatown. It was okay. Okay.

59:58Stephen Root:Yeah. We're on the path to reconciliation. Yes, sir.

1:00:02Josh Horowitz:Pad Thai is okay.

1:00:03Stephen Root:Okay. We're ending on a happy note. You and Pad Thai.

1:00:05Josh Horowitz:It's always happy. And I'm always happy, sad, and confused.

1:00:09Stephen Root:That's why you're the perfect guest. There you go. Also because of your amazing filmography. Congratulations on all the work. I'm so happy we got a chance to go down memory lane. Thank you for indulging me. And good luck at the Emmys. Enjoyed the silliness of all that. Absolutely. Well deserved. And I'll see you for season two, I guess. See you then, pal. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't sure to do this by Josh.

1:01:02Stephen Root:work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at chatgpt.com by selecting work mode available on plus and pro plans.