Vanessa Kirby

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0:39Step into a local Crocs store and step into your new look Try it, style it, make it yours Because the right pair doesn't just show up, it shows off First day fits, handled Walk out ready for whatever's next Visit your nearest Crocs store today As the nature of being a superhero, you kind of have to do like the hand movements thing, right? You have to sell that. Is there a discussion of like, oh, wait, we need to sell Sue's hand movements in a different way than Scarlet Witch. I need a different special hand movement than Lizzie. Exactly, Josh. Oh, my gosh. You're so perceptive. I had that conversation daily because what she does is incredible and it's so definitive.

1:24and I also wanted to understand the powers at a very fundamental level. Otherwise, I think I would feel a bit silly. You know what I mean? I knew I would feel silly kind of waving my hands around without really understanding what it feels like to do it. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Hey guys, it's Josh here. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today we are celebrating the next big blockbuster of the summer with Sue Storm herself. That's right. Vanessa Kirby on the podcast talking all things Fantastic Four. Very excited about this one. A first time guest on Happy, Say, Confused.

2:05Vanessa Kirby way overdue. Thank you guys as always for checking out what I'm doing over here. So much great reaction to last week's episode with James Gunn. Thank you guys for all the love. If you haven't checked it out by now, check it out because that was an embarrassment of riches. is a great combo. His third time on the podcast talking all things Superman. But now we move into Fantastic War territory with Vanessa Kirby. This is a fun one. Before we get to that, let's see, a couple things. First up, very big, exciting news. We have a live Happy Say Confused event to talk about. Los Angeles, come on out.

2:39Tickets are now available. August 15th, Ben Stiller and Seth Rogen together. You heard me right. Two amazing actors, creators, directors. Yes, they currently both have maybe two of my favorite. Yes, two of my favorite, if not my absolute favorites, Severance and The Studio. So we'll be talking about their respective shows. They've collectively earned a gajillion Emmy nominations, and this is going to be a rare treat to see the two of them together. I don't know how this happened. I mean, I do know how it happened, but I'm very excited that it has come together. August 15th, Fine Arts Theater, where we've hosted a bunch of events, 7 p.m.

3:19Get your tickets now. The link is in the show notes. These tickets are going to go fast, so grab them while you can and come out and say hi. As always, check out our Patreon, patreon.com slash happy second views. That's where you get early access and discount codes to events like this and all sorts of bonus materials. Check it out. Okay, just a couple quick words on Vanessa, and then I'll toss to the main event. Fantastic Four, of course, is the topic at hand. And this was really cool of Vanessa to do because we've been trying to make this happen for a while. Vanessa has been very kind enough to say she's a fan of the podcast and had wanted to do it for a bit.

3:57And given that she's on this worldwide press store, given that she was in the middle of a junket, I wasn't sure it was going to happen. But she agreed to do this literally during her lunch break. She's pregnant. She's got a lot going on. So I'm very appreciative that she made the time for this. She's a delight. She has had such an amazing career already. And it's really just kicking into another gear in recent years, thanks to, you know, really great dramatic work and things like Pieces of a Woman and The Sun. But also then working in the biggest pop culture, you know, properties around, whether it's Hobson Shaw or Mission Impossible or now Fantastic Four.

4:35We also talk a little bit about her beginnings in television, of course, in The Crown. She was cast in that 10 years ago. And to see her now front and center in this kind of context is really cool. And she's fantastic in the film. She is the heart and soul of this movie. You're going to love her in it. And we're going to see a lot more of her in Doomsday and many future Marvel projects, I'm sure. And you can hear in this conversation, by the way, she's so passionate about Sue and the things she does in the comics. I think the comic fans out there are going to be excited to hear Vanessa so passionate about this.

5:12So enjoy this chat. It's a little shorter than we usually do. But again, given all the context, I'll take what I can get. And I'm really, again, thankful she made the time. So without any further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Sue Storm, the invisible woman herself, Vanessa Kirby. Vanessa Kirby finally on Happy, Seg, Confused. Thank you so much for squeezing me in today. It's good to see you. Thank you for having me. I love this show. So I'm really excited myself. Thank you. Congratulations on the film and one of the privileged few that have gotten a chance to see it. It's so fun. You're amazing in it.

5:45And I want to give folks some context because I am really appreciative because press tours don't get any bigger than this. And Vanessa is sacrificing much of her lunch break to catch up with me. So not to mention you're pregnant. So there's a lot going on in your world. So I really appreciate you. You're so welcome. Okay. So first of all, before we get to Fantastic Four, I mean, it struck me, it's about 10 years into kind of like the big transition point in your career, almost to the date. Summer of 2015, I think you're cast in The Crown, which is a major shift. You've been doing theater, you're succeeding.

6:22And then this transition starts into TV and film. Just reflect for a second for me. Does it feel like a minute, 10 ,000 years? What is that when you hear that number? What does that do to you? Oh, God. Yeah. Yeah, it really was a transition. But just even you saying that it was, I mean, I was so lucky it wasn't really easy. It was a very gentle transition in some ways, because when we started that show, we were a bunch of theater actors. You know, we were filming in London. Netflix had only had a couple of shows. So we weren't even really sure if people would watch it or if they would like it.

7:01And so it was very protected. And so we just kind of innocently cracked on with the series. And, you know, I seem like maybe my mum and dad would watch it, but I didn't know if anyone else would. And so there wasn't this crazy pressure of, you know, something being wildly liked by people. So, and we were filming the second season before the first had even come out. So I had that real protected space. And then we were just absolutely blown away when people happened to be watching it. We couldn't believe it. And so there was always been a gratitude, I think, that stayed with me because my transition was very much having been in the theatre and, you know, having 300 people in the north of England come and watch the show.

7:41And suddenly people were able to watch something I was in and it was like miraculous to me. And I still feel like that. I feel like this about this movie. I kind of, maybe because I started in theater in so many different small places, I never, I've always, yeah, I just feel incredibly grateful if anyone goes to see everything, really. It's striking to look at the body of work in the last 10 years because you've been able to kind of do this very deft balancing act, whether it's by luck or intent of doing, you know, things like Pieces of a Woman and the Sun and also being at the center of the biggest cultural events, whether it's Hobbs and Shaw Mission or now this.

8:19I mean, how much do you feel like you've been able to steer your own ship versus kind of surfing the wave of whatever the best material is coming to you? I've been asked quite a lot about the fact that I do like different genres or something and um like it's some something that's unusual I think it's definitely less so now I think actors go across all different kind of mediums but I think for me it never felt like that because when you do like the playwrights for example when I started you know if you do an Arthur Miller it's completely different to doing a Chekhov like it's just a different genre completely so right it never felt like the approach was always the same you try and rehearse and do as much work as possible because you're absolutely terrified about walking out in front of an audience and it's always felt the approach has always felt exactly the same so it doesn't even though sometimes the scale of it can be scary i don't know i still think you approach yeah the approach is the same so yeah once the cameras are on once everything is sorted out and all the bells and whistles it's still hopefully you and another actor or two trying to get at something truthful.

9:26That's the goal at least, right? Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. And learning to not be afraid of the sort of the technicality or the machines around that took me quite a long time to. Well, that's the trick, right? Fooling your brain into thinking there's nothing on the periphery and really like locking in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like even for example, in this, you know, Sue going up against Galactus, there was maybe 60 crew members behind the camera and I was staring at kind of like a metal pole that was really high and I just was like oh I just kept trying to imagine what I was seeing you know yeah and uh you just yeah it's endlessly tricking your mind so you know for those that know me they know it will surprise no one to know that I grew up with this stuff I lived and breathed comics what were what was your bag like growing up like what were you into genre wise franchise a book series films like if i talked to like 12 year old vanessa kirby what was your obsession um i was obsessed with a combination of those well my dad introduced me to a lot of cinema and so we would watch midnight express when i was super young and you know it exposed us to everything um and then and then all the classics you know i was like all the all the ones that came out during that era we watched them on loop on absolute loop and i'm talking about things like Splash and you know all those early movies and um like what films can you quote backwards and forwards if I put you to the test like what's what's just ingrained in you I mean if you're talking about 12 year old I think Titanic I you know I just remember going to my parents I think yeah and I just it just the scale of it we were discussing earlier what movies would we like to see in IMAX but you remember when Jurassic Park came out and like all those oh my gosh those Spielberg movies.

11:18That was my childhood. That was my childhood, mixed with my dad introducing us to lots of like, sometimes he would say, no, we're going to watch a classic and then you can watch a new one. Well, those things that you see almost a little too young are always the ones that really kind of like break your brain in the best possible way. I remember seeing like Jaws when I was like definitely too young. It's something I would expect seeing Midnight Express anytime before you're 18 is probably going to make an impact on a young woman. I remember the sweat. Do you remember how amazing the sweat was at the airport for those guys?

11:50It's so visceral. I always remember that. But yeah, you're right. Breaking your brain, it's so true. It really does feel like that, doesn't it? It goes in you and you just never forget it. Totally, totally. We're all kind of locked into who we were at 12 and the pop culture that really seeped in then forever.

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15:31OK, so before this one comes around, you know, it is the coin of the realm, these superhero films, the last 15 years. And if rumors are to be believed, you've been up for at least a couple. There was Birds of Prey, supposedly, that was talked about. I don't know if the Catwoman thing was real or not with Matt Reeves, but have you been up for a bunch of superhero things prior to this? Not literally, no. I never auditioned for them. Catwoman, oh, my God, what a dream. And Zoe was the coolest ever. So how, you know, she couldn't have been more perfect. So that was more of a list thing, but not an actual full-on audition thing.

16:10Yeah, I think it was always going to be her. She's just the most incredible actor, most beautiful ever. Yes, Birds of Prey. No, I never met on that, but I was so happy that it was a female superhero, anti-heroine movie coming around. But I always had a deep appreciation because I understand, you know, they're so globally loved. And it's almost like culturally like the Odyssey or the Iliad, you know, these kind of like mythical, yeah, embodied kind of mythical, what's the right word? They're sort of symbols of - Yeah, they're the most basic primal stories. They are just our current way of telling these stories that recur throughout history, right?

16:58Yeah, exactly, exactly. And so when this one came around, I was so genuinely moved by the fact that this was a woman who was pregnant and, you know, was a new mother and also has these superpowers. It helped me ground it in something that's, you know, to try and understand what it would be like to have both those things happening at the same time was a challenge. But I was grateful for that because it rooted it in this kind of domesticity somehow, you know, in this family, this family home, which made it easy, I think. Yeah, I want to get to some of the power of, without ruining the film for folks out there, the power of some of that imagery that caught me off guard.

17:37I realized I hadn't seen this in a superhero film before, but, but before we get to that, okay, so you, you get the role, which I believe was not even an audition situation. They, they just offered to you. Is that correct? Like they meet with you and it's an offer. Yeah. I met Matt Shachman. We had an awesome lunch and we talked a lot about the comics, particularly the early sixties ones, which was really a wonderful thing to be asked to go and do, to go back to the sixties and seventies and decades of, of this sort of like legacy of this form of entertainment for people that was kind of counterculture and super meaningful to people every week you know you just wait it wasn't a lot of tv obviously and so you this would be the the the thing you'd you'd most be most excited about and so I felt very um touched by that and then Matt and so we had a really deep discussion about that and then I met Kevin and Lou at Marvel um and then the next day they asked me to do it so no there was no there There was no audition, which sometimes makes it scary because then you go, oh, gosh, the first day when you.

18:36Right. You want to kind of prove to yourself in a way. Yeah. So so was there look, there are obvious benefits to this. Marvel knows what they're doing. This is an iconic character, but it's also a commitment. This is not one and done. This is going to be potentially the next 10 years beyond of your life off and on. So that has to be something that you whether you wrestle with it or you contemplate. I mean, is there a, I don't know, is there a little trepidation when you're like, I'm really kind of making a commitment to my career and life for the next 10 plus years? With this, I actually didn't have that.

19:09And I'm surprised to say that. I think it was because I really liked her so much. And because I'd read so many of the comics and she goes through so many different iterations, you know, she becomes Malice, this really dark version of herself for quite a long time. And then she renames herself Invisible Woman, having been called Invisible Girl. and she goes off with Psycho Man and her history is incredible. So that was, I felt like, oh, there's so much there to even psychologically. I mean, she has a stillborn and people don't know that. You know, like she's gone through a lot, but most importantly, I knew I wouldn't be out without these three actors.

19:45And these three actors have genuinely become family. And I admired them so much. And I knew that we're a four and the four in the comics are never separated. So I assumed that we'd be together. and that really helped because then you're not a lone ranger kind of you know going into new daunting environments we've always kind of got each other and we've had that exactly with avengers just now just all being together um in our group well that being said look and we can say this now maybe the pressure's off a little bit because you know the movie delivers you're hearing this from people and yes it is very much an ensemble and it is about the family when you see the film when folks see the film this is sue's film like i mean yes it's the family but this is sue is like the emotional heart, it really is like the center of the film, at least from you.

20:28Maybe you can't say that, but I can say that watching it as a viewer. I mean, did it, when you eventually get to see the script, were you surprised, heartened about like, oh wow, this is really like a mother's story in a way? I think that's Matt Shackman, honestly. I think he has this incredible daughter called Maisie, who's been an inspiration to all of us. She's the biggest personality and the most kind of formidable female presence. And I think, you know, he made a decision really early on in our first meeting. He said, I don't think I'm going to, I'm not choosing to do this as an origin story where we learn how they got their powers.

21:04I want this to be, we already know what their powers are and they're well into their run. Suze established this future foundation. And I want the movie to open with them finding out they're going to have a baby. And most importantly, that that's all the things that a new parent feels, you know, daunted, anxious, scared, ecstatic, and have these two parents basically live through the course of this movie with coming to terms with the fact that they're becoming parents. And also because they feel like they're different. They're not who they were. And therefore we have a child together. And will we pass on the things that we don't like about ourselves?

21:39Or what are we going to pass on to our child? And that inherently was like a very human existential question. And so I think naturally, Matt was gravitating towards this parenthood and this fatherhood and this mother's story. And I remember standing on our very first day of filming with this fake pregnancy bump and couldn't believe it. I just thought, oh, my God, how am I going to be a superhero like this? But, you know, she really taught me that going through the journey of this movie for me as a lived experience quite literally taught me that it's possible. And the synergy between, you know, the metaphor of superhero is more like, oh, my gosh, I've looked around at all my girlfriends that have done it.

22:24And, you know, it's a it's a very unbelievably powerful, sacred thing. Well, and I was saying about like the imagery of the film that I really struck me. I mean, I don't think it reveals anything to say. Like one of the powerful moments for me is like you kind of have like the big superhero, like hero speech, and you're holding a baby. And I don't think I've ever seen that in a film. Did that strike you in that moment of shooting that scene that like, this is new territory? it did and also the babies we had maybe because it was a night shoot the babies cried on the same line every time i was like maybe it's my delivery i was like i'm gonna try and adjust it give me the next baby swap in the next one yeah we had to swap a lot but they became really special to us because they you know we knew them all really really well and they grew up with us ada who plays franklin you know she was with us from the start and she changed personality in the six months that we were shooting it was just amazing to watch but um but yes definitely and i think also I remember us saying at the beginning you know a lot of these kind of um these stories you know these superheroes they go up against something really difficult they have to face some massive threats and see if they can overcome it and fall down and try and get back up and try and you know protect the something about you know what we about humanity and we knew if there was a baby at the center of this, it would be very hard to not care because how could you not?

23:48And so we got to put our focus on that a lot. And that really helped so much because you weren't talking ideologically. You're talking very, very practically and very vulnerably about this little newborn who represents, you know, pure human consciousness in a way. No, totally. It's much easier for an audience to connect when it's like, we have to get that cube. We have to solve this thing as opposed to like we have we have to protect our child like this is the most relatable of all things exactly exactly so even if we did bad acting we were like the baby will will pull us yeah yeah and michael's score of course the baby in the score and matt's vision kills it

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26:32I have a very stupid but real question. I mean, so like, you know, as the nature of being a superhero, you kind of have to do like the hand movements thing, right? You have to sell that. Is there a discussion of like, oh, wait, we need to sell Sue's hand movements in a different way than Scarlet Witch. I need a different special hand movement than Lizzie. Exactly, Josh. Oh, my gosh. You're so perceptive. I had that conversation daily because what she does is incredible and it's so definitive. And I also wanted to understand the powers at a very fundamental level. Otherwise, I think I'd feel a bit silly.

27:09You know what I mean? I knew I would feel silly kind of waving my hands around without really understanding what it feels like to do it. But then you go, well, how do I start to imagine what it feels like to do it? And so I had to understand it on a scientific level. So I was looking at, I was imagining that you see creating force fields is essentially like moving frequency or energy, right? And if you think about radio waves or microwaves or, you know, our phone waves that connect a call to Australia from England, it's not what the connection is invisible, but it's still moving through space, if that makes sense.