Wagner Moura

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28:02What was the first, like when you started to get serious about it, what was the career that you realistically imagined for yourself? Was it in TV? Theater.

28:11Wagner Moura:Theater, yeah, the theater stage. Because I come from Salvador, Bahia, which is northeast of Brazil. It's not the center of like, it's like, I don't know what would be the equivalent here. But it's not New York, it's not LA, it's not Chicago, it's not. It's very interesting culturally, but it's, I don't know, it would be. So from actors from that part of the, also there was a lot, lots of internal xenophobia in Brazil. It still is. And in The Secret Agent, there was a scene about that, like in the restaurant scene. That's still a thing. Like there was lots of prejudice against people that came from where Cliber and I came from.

28:55Wagner Moura:So an actor from Salvador would never be in a telenovela back in the 90s, you know, because they spoke with the Rio de Janeiro's accent and they had to have some sort of... It was out of my league completely. So was it a major breakthrough then getting into the telenovela game for you? And how did that happen if that was not the norm? I think the world was starting to change. And it's been in the right place. Lots of lucky. Opportunity meeting. Opportunity. I remember when I was doing theater and we were doing this play. And the play, we performed the play in Rio and the play was a big hit there.

29:43Wagner Moura:And then Brazilian films back in the end of the 90s, beginning of the 2000s, that's when we called retomada, like the restart of Brazilian film industry. and the Brazilian film directors were exactly looking for faces that were not like the television kind of, you know, profile. So that was exactly when me and those actors from the Northeast arrived in Rio and Sao Paulo and we started to make films and from films, from being recognized by cast directors in films, they would go like, oh, so maybe this guy could be in a telenovela, but look, because the Brazilian star system is built on around novellas a lot of soap operas like that's where you actors make money and be become famous and all that so i start i we myself and people from my generation some actors started to be accepted in the telenovelas uh universe uh in the beginning of the 2000s with that without having to play uh stereotyped uh characters so so forgive me because i while i've seen much of your work i have not seen the telenovela work so educate me did you have i don't think you're missing anything but it's what was the cat like was there a type of character you were doing in those two you said i did two i did two of them one of them i was the lead i was like the good guy you know because they're they had three archetypical archetype archetypes yeah yeah archetypes of of characters in telenovelas this is the good guy yep usually a rich guy there is the good girl which is usually a poor girl who falls in love with the rich man and there is the bad guy who sometimes it's funny is a funny character but he really wants to destroy the life of those beautiful people that's a fun job it's sort of like yeah so I did the nice guy in one of them and the other one I played the bad guy so I think I did what I had to do there.

31:54Wagner Moura:And also, it takes you like, it's great, man. I mean, it's such a great exercise. And I was feeling that I was working in something that was very Brazilian, you know, like, Brazilian actors, they kind of have to go through telenovelas thing, because it's like, you learn, you should, like, I kid you not, man, if you have a main role in a telenovela, you should, like 20, 25 scenes per day. Can you possibly memorize it? You're literally memorizing it? We kind of know. We memorize all the Mexican actors. They use that thing. The ear thing. Brazilians don't. They just memorize. They go back home and they memorize their lines and they wake up in the other day and your life is just like basically that.

32:48You must be a godsend to a director or a rewriter on set. Like they give you three pages of dialogue. You're like, oh, that's a cinch. I can do that in a time. Oh, that's crazy. Easy.

32:57Wagner Moura:You know, that's what I'm talking about. After doing a telenovela, like to go to make a film where you shoot like one scene per day sometimes. It's amazing. It's great. It's just like you learn. I feel like sometimes I draw a parallel with Brazilian football soccer players. but they you know these kids that grow up in the favelas and they play like in like these fields with mud and shit and then they bring them to play like in a beer stadium yeah stadium in england they go like fuck yeah a lot to cover i want to jump ahead we mentioned a bit of elite squad which i imagine is a big leap for you and and i would imagine leads to new exciting opportunities i mean I don't know if that's like when, when, you know, coming to the States started to emerge as an opportunity to start to maybe even get in rooms for, for stuff.

33:51Like, do you, do you remember the period of time when you came to the States and, and what kind of stuff you were going up for? Yeah.

33:57Wagner Moura:I remember because in the lead squad won the golden bear in Berlin, like surprisingly, because it was being accused. It was being accused of being a far right film. and the president of the jury was Costa Graves and then we received that award from the biggest left wing that'll legitimize you, yeah totally so we were like okay that was good and surprisingly I think maybe because of Berlin, people in Hollywood, not like like regular or movie goers, but like producers, directors, like cast directors, they became aware of the lead squad. And I started to get like phone calls from agents and things like, like, Hey man, have you ever thought about having an agent here?

34:51Wagner Moura:And I never, I didn't really consider that like a serious conversation, you know, it was like, this doesn't seem. Was it, was it, was it concerned that was it, was it, I can't imagine them actually leaping to that or that if I get opportunities, they're going to be the worst stereotypical roles that you could possibly imagine or a little bit of both. There was that. Exactly. And there was also like, yeah, you should come here. I should go there. And what should I do? You know, like it was a little like too far away from my I didn't. But then in 2010, I met this guy who I worked with for for a long time, for almost 10 years.

35:32Wagner Moura:and his wife back then was a Brazilian and somehow he was like, you have to come here, and there was a moment that I wasn't doing it, and I was like, I'm going to go there. So he introduced me to, it was in 2010, he introduced me to cast directors, the whole general thing. I remember we were driving his car and he was going from one meeting to the water bottle tour, as they say. yeah yeah exactly and i did that and i was like oh that was and people were i was very surprised how aware people were of elite squad you know they were like oh man and it was like whoa they really knew the movie and and seemed excited to talk to me i was like okay that's like so and then And after that, I did Elysium because Neil Blomkamp was a fan of Elite Squad.

36:27Wagner Moura:And he asked me to audition for it. I did like a self-tape thing in Rio, sent it to him. And it was a great experience. And that was in 2013 or 12. Yeah. And then not so far after that is obviously the next giant leap, which is Narcos, of course, and Escobar. And then I did Narcos. But Narcos was different because Narcos came from the director of Elite Squad. Right. You know, it was familiar. It was more like... Yeah, working with people you knew. But it was also a leap in that, like, you know, atypical for a lot of your stuff. You've talked a little bit about like kind of, you know, you're playing versions of yourself in a lot of roles and like, you know, connecting, like, where do I connect?

37:14And something like Escobar is a huge leap in so many different ways. The famous stories of this, like the guy on my screen right now does not look like who you play. No, thank God. In Narcos. I mean, how much pride in retrospect? It must have been some work putting on the weight, learning the language, all of it. But 10 years later, looking back, that's a source of pride, I would imagine.

37:36Wagner Moura:Yeah, it is, because it was like, that was crazy, because this director, José Pagilli, who is a good friend of mine, and we did Elite Squad and we did Narcos together, so we became very, very good friends, and he's kind of crazy, and he was also like a Brazilian guy who wasn't aware of the Hollywood system, he didn't care, so it was like, okay, I'm going to, they invited him to direct Narcos, and I was like, okay, I'm going to Wagner you're gonna play Pablo Escobar okay I'll do it yeah sure and I was excited about but Netflix didn't even know it was like came from his crazy mind he invited me and I was like fuck I have now I have to learn Spanish because I don't speak the language so I flew myself I paid for a ticket booked myself in a university in Medellin Colombia I started to learn Spanish I was eating like crazy and gaining weight and Netflix didn't even know.

38:37Wagner Moura:Now, did you know that Netflix didn't know at that point? No, I thought that everything was okay. At what point do you find out and how much do you lose your shake? You know, I found out when I was imaging and they were scouting there and Jose said, okay, I'm going to introduce you to Eric Newman, the producer, and Chris Brancato back then was the showrunner and the writer. And I could see the faces of the guys when they met me, they were like, what? Is this guy? They were like, wait, I didn't know. So this guy is going to play Paul Escort? And that was scary, man. That was like, I was like, it's just Zed.

39:22Wagner Moura:I talked to people. Dude, and they were to produce Netflix itself. And back then, but let's remember that back then, in 2015, 14, Netflix was known for hiring the talents and leaving them alone. Right. Ben Sher goes off and does House of Cards the way he wants. They would hire you and they would go like, you know, do your thing when you don't want to interfere with your work. It wasn't, that's how it worked back then. So I think that, again, I think it was lucky because if it was today, that would never have happened. It's lucky, but it's also what you did with it. Also, a Brazilian player in the Colombian wouldn't have happened as well, right?

40:07Wagner Moura:Did you and Pedro click? Are you guys still in touch? Yeah, yeah. I love him. And my thing with Pedro is like, I only know Pedro socially because we never got to work together. Like, he was the cop. And I was the bad guy. He was chasing me. And we never really, I never had a scene with Pedro. But we were going out in Bogota and he was just adorable to hang out with. He's probably a good hang from my limited experience being around him. He's so very funny and nice. But I never worked with Pedro. One wild karaoke night, any story, anything pop to mind as a fun night with Pedro that you can tell?

40:53I can't tell those things

40:55Wagner Moura:what happens in Colombia we were going out and we have friends in common I don't talk to British he was very when I moved to the US he was super important because he wrote me I asked him to write me those letters to the immigration so they wouldn't And, you know, back then there was no eyes. It was easier. But, you know, even though it was like I was trying to come here and work here, and I asked Peter to write a letter saying that I was a good human being. Wow. So add that to the list of Pedro Pascal accomplishments, getting you to be a citizen. He did that to me, yeah. Yes. He really helped me out with that.

41:47So, again, we're not going to be able to cover everything, But I want to mention Civil War, which I think is just a remarkable piece of work. And clearly, you found kind of a kindred spirit, I would imagine, in Alex Garland, who's a guy that knows how to create engrossing, powerful entertainment, but also of great substance and worth. And that film, I think, is really going to stand the test of time. I was just rewatching. I mean, that scene with Jesse Plemons is an all-outtimer to see. And honestly, Jesse gets major props for that, but watching it again through the prism of talking to you, your fear and everyone's fear in that scene is what makes that scene so, so damn chilling.

42:27Do you remember shooting that sequence in particular? Oh, my God.

42:30Wagner Moura:That scene was, it took us like an entire day. You know, like, again, like at me, like doing 20 days, 20 scenes per day. That scene took the whole day from like 8 a.m. to, I don't know, 6 p.m. with me saying, no, no, don't kill us. And Jesse going, what kind of American are you? I remember that at the end when we rapped, I laid down on the grass. was just green grass there. I lay down there and cried. And I was just crying because I was just like, this was too much. You know, even it moves me right now. It was too much. It feels so starkly, chillingly real. So these people exist. Like this is not so far off.

43:19That's what makes that movie so chilling.

43:22Wagner Moura:That's what makes that movie so scary. And when I read that script, I remember saying like, oh my God, I think this is the most timely thing I've ever read in my life. Yeah. And yeah, and it still is. And it's becoming more and more timely, actually, the film. I only saw the film when we released it. I might revisit it to check it out again. I think it's a great film. I really like that movie. Truly. So, I mean, obviously your heart lies in these films that work on a number of levels that, of course, they entertain it to some degree, but they also provoke thought and reflect our life and times, which is my favorite kind of entertainment as well.

44:07I mean, is there at this point in your career with like, you've had a lot of great successes and opportunities I would imagine are better than ever. I would hope. I mean, is there, you know, is there a temptation to find that balance of like, you know, you've certainly, you've done some of the big Hollywood stuff. And I would imagine those opportunities come to meet with the Marvels and the Star Wars. And you're doing a Star Wars voice, I know. But like, is there an appetite to kind of be in the center of pop culture in that way and contribute?

44:35Wagner Moura:Yeah, for sure. But I would never be able to do something that I don't truly believe or that I think it's bullshit. I would just be miserable. But I think I tend to see meaning in everything and to see politics. I did Puss in Boots and I love that film. And I think it's such a meaningful philosophical film about so many beautiful things. And, yeah, of course. I mean, but listen, what I'm going to do after this whole thing here, I'm going to do this independent film in Brazil with this Argentinian director called Lisandro Alonso. Right after that, I'm doing my play. Right. Later I wrote with the director.

45:25Wagner Moura:I'm going to tour with the play in theater festivals in Europe. and after that I'm going to direct my film my second feature film which is of course a very independent film as well so yes to answer your question yes but I you know like this my year the rest of my year is exactly how it was going to be like a year ago is the directing effort is that still last night at the lobster and is that still is that Lizzie Moss and Brian Tyree Henry two people you know quite well i'm a big fan of both lizzie i know pretty well um she's the best she's just the best she's just the best and it's so good to work with her you know it's just it's amazing how you work it's when you work with such a nice human being that is such a great actress as well you know like i love that i love what i love with lizzie was like we were doing the scenes and, you know, like, I love to work with actors about the action and game on and anything can happen, you know, and you can just trust that whatever you go, she's going to be there or the up.

46:40Wagner Moura:It's so good. Brian is the same. Oh, Brian's electric on screen. Yeah. Same thing, you know, it's like there's no, yeah, I like just, this is the thing that I love most about what we do It was like when you just look at the other guy's eyes and like, let's go. And that must have been invaluable. We don't have time to go deep on Dope Thief. That doesn't happen all the time. But people should look up the circumstances of Dope Thief in that this guy you're looking at right here had to jump in with no time whatsoever and kick ass. And that's all credit to you, but it's all credit to also Brian of being that screen partner that you can play off of, right?

47:20Wagner Moura:Absolutely. He's the most, I mean, adorable friend. It's crazy when you become older. I'm going to be 50 this year. And it gets harder to, when I was younger, it was like, I was connecting with everybody. Everybody was my friend and everybody was like, you know. And when you're older, like to become friends with someone, it's not, you know, the same thing. And I really cherish my friendship with Brian Terry Henry. you know it was it was such a beautiful connection you know and I absolutely adore him as I adore I adore Lizzie and they are going to be there with me not only because they believe in the film and they want to play the characters because they want to support me and I really you know they want to be there with me my first time I'm directing a film in the US and acting and directing it's like I really appreciate that that's friendship And these are the joys I always say, again, we're literally like almost the exact same age of sticking around and having these relationships bear fruit in different ways and kind of meet people at different points in their life and career.

48:27It's a moving thing to see from all ends. So on the lighter side, although I guess a series starring Darth Maul can't be too light, was it fun to at least dip your toe into the Star Wars universe to do a voice for this new series? Yeah, it was very fun.

48:46Wagner Moura:I love doing these things, the voice work thing. It really liberates you to just, I don't know, you get less. At least when I did Pussing Boots, it was something that I was consciously going like, just go there and have fun. Because as you're not, you get less self-conscious of, no one is seeing you. It's just there. And you go back to what I think is the nature of what we do. It's to play, to have fun, to never forget that this should be made with joy. And you've got to be like the way when you see kids playing. I will say when I was sitting nearby you, I was at the sentimental value table near you at Critics' Choice.

49:37And I looked over at what you were wearing and I was like, he's kind of halfway to the Jedi robe right there tonight. This guy would be a kick-ass Jedi. Someone cast this man right now. Oh, yeah, man. Just saying.

49:48Wagner Moura:That was a wide outfit. Yeah, that was, yeah. I was excited about that. That one looks like, yeah, yeah. I'm now working with this amazing stylist, Elida, and she's throwing me like, you know, things that I'm like, oh, is this, would a 50-year-old man wear this? And she's like, yeah. Yeah, you can pull it off. And I'm like, okay, that's good. We any closer to getting you on SNL? Years ago, you said that was a dream one day. Oh, you still do SNL? Oh, my God. Are you kidding me? You know, that would be a dream come true. You know, that's that's another American. That's another thing, you know, that for me defines American humor.

50:28Wagner Moura:You know, like what's like I grew up watching SNL, you know, like and. exactly and I went to I did this interview this talk show I don't remember which one was it it was a talk show Seth Meyers it's shot in there so they took me when I was doing Seth Meyers they took me to the stage where they record SNL so I got to see the stage that place where the monologue where the bands play and all the monologues takes place and I was like man that's really cool so absolutely yes we're going to end with this happy second fuse always ends with our profoundly random questions Wagner are you a dog or cat person?

51:23dog but

51:26Wagner Moura:yeah but there's a but I'm totally a dog person but we have a dog and a cat but the cat arrived like a year ago only. So I was getting used to the cat. I wasn't, the cat was like, the cat and I, we were like, you know, circling each other. Yeah. But the other day I was very, I was very, you know, I wasn't in, I was a little sad and I laid down on my sofa and the cat just walked and just put the paws on my chest and stay there doing like that kind of thing. dude that was so good you know that really sort of like that sort of reorganized my feelings and like it was a very interesting we had a moment the cat yeah it sounds like it i feel like i'm interfering just now just even hearing it it was an intimate we had we had a beautiful moment so now i'm starting to you know understand the cat but of course i'm a dog i'm a dog guy with dogs they show affection they show love that you know they they they they make a point in saying like we are i'm your friend you know like so i like that do you collect anything

52:41no not really okay that's okay do you have a thing yeah i don't think so growing up did you have a favorite video game favorite video game of all time um yeah uh river raid okay i don't remember it but okay you're old enough to remember this

52:59Wagner Moura:I should know it. Okay. Okay. Yeah. River Raid. It was like when I had an Atari. Right. And I played that one. Like, you go with an airplane and you have to put fuel and destroy little things. Or Pac-Man. Pac-Man was great. Classic. What's the wallpaper on your phone? It's a picture of my sons, but they are, you know, all like sort of like, it's kind of cool and funky. and they now put that yellow, they customize it for you. So it's looking nice. Not like that. It changed. It changed. I have different photos and they go circulating and changing. Right now it's the three boys. Who's the last actor you were mistaken for?

53:51Wagner Moura:One of my best friends is an amazing actor. that came from Salvador to Rio with me to do that play. It's a guy called Lazaro Jamos. And we are so close and we are so, you know, people identify us sometimes as a, you know, and sometimes they call me Lazaro, you know, and it's crazy because he's a black dude with a big...

54:19Wagner Moura:Had a hair. Yeah, hair. And I love when they do that because it's like, it's not about how we look like it's how close we are and how it's very sweet what's the worst note a director has ever given you steven doldry i i did this film with him called trash in brazil and i loved him and i think he's crazy and amazing and really loved him but we're doing the scene and he came to me and he was like it really took him like 30 seconds going like

55:06do it again

55:09Wagner Moura:it's the build up it's the I couldn't stop laughing I was like okay man I'll do it again because he really tried He really tried to say something, you know, like he made an effort, but it was like, it's just not good. At the end of the day, just, can we try it again? Can we just do something else? It's just not good enough. Let's just do it again. And finally, in the spirit of Happy Second Fused, he's an actor who always makes you happy. You see them on screen, you're immediately in a better mood. Jack Black. What's your go-to? School of Rock? Just anything and everything? Oh, School of Rock is amazing.

55:47Wagner Moura:And I can't wait to see Anaconda because another good friend of mine did it, Selton. Selton Mello, who is an actor who is in I'm Still Here. Oh, nice. He plays a role in Anaconda, and I really want to see it. A movie that makes you sad?

56:07Wagner Moura:Oh, Rosetta from the Dardenne Brothers. It's such a hard... Or the Kid in the Bike. Or the Dardenne Brothers films that make me... They make me sad, but they make me feel, you know, they make me believe in the power of films and movies. And finally, a food that makes you confused. You don't understand why people would eat that. You can't get behind it.

56:38I stumped you. Is there a disgusting Americanism? No, I just...

56:47Wagner Moura:There's this pink Japanese sweet that's made with beans. Oh. They love the red bean paste in a lot of stuff. But yeah, okay. Beans, bean paste. But it's sweet. Yeah. Anything that's... Also, Americans like... Sometimes when I was an exchange student, I got a scholarship to study English here. when I was 15. And I was living in Sarasota, Florida for a month. Ultrashock, I would imagine. Yeah, it was great. But the family, they wanted to please me as a Brazilian, and they cooked beans. But they cooked it with... Not the beans you knew. Dude, with sugar. So it was like, that's a combination that I don't get.

57:40Wagner Moura:You know, beans and sugar. Well, that's the American way. When in doubt, add sugar to anything. Welcome to America. But to beans, that's what I don't understand. All right. Our next conversation, I want to dig into your exchange student Sarasota days. That feels like a conversation in and of itself. Wagner, thank you so much for the time today. That's like me too, Josh. Yeah. This has been a true pleasure. I'm sure folks that listen or watch this podcast have seen it by now, but give it another look because this is one of the exceptional pieces of work of the last year and beyond. The secret agent.

58:11Have fun at the end of this long, exciting road. enjoy yourself at the Oscars and best of luck man thank you Tinker

58:18Wagner Moura:see you around see you around and so ends another edition of Happy Sad Confused remember to review rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts I'm a big podcast person I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't ready to do this by Josh

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