Winona Ryder, Vol. IV

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0:43Bundling. Just another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. I, by the way, watched Dracula. It was on on Halloween and I thought of you because you said you like watched it so many times. I watched it so often. And I was like, this is amazing. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Winona Ryder is back. Fourth time is the charm.

1:26talking Stranger Things, Dracula, beautiful, delicious, Tangent says only Winona can deliver. So thrilled. The one and only Winona Ryder is back on the pod. Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out Happy, Say I Confused, for watching it on YouTube or on Spotify, listening it wherever you get your podcasts. I will mention, I shouted out Spotify. We have broken some amazing records for Happy, Say I Confused. the most watched entertainment podcast on Spotify recently. That's crazy. So thank you. You guys are awesome. It's amazing. This podcast is bigger than ever, and it's basically 12th year now.

2:11So I am so grateful for those of you that have checked out the pod. Hopefully you've enjoyed a small sampling or a large sampling of the nearly 700 episodes of Happy Seg Infused that we've delivered over the last 11 plus years. Go through our archives, see what we've delivered. Chances are your favorite actor or filmmaker has been on the pod probably more than once. And that applies to the one and only Winona Ryder. So as soon as I do a Winona Ryder episode, the fans are always like, one's Winona coming back. Well, we made it happen. Of course we made it happen. If you've listened to my last few conversations with her over the years, you know, we have a very special, unique bond.

2:52Winona is a unicorn. She, the energy and enthusiasm, the nervous tics, I love it all. We're cut from the same neurotic cloth, I like to think. And I love going on the tangents with her. This was one of the very few interviews she did in support of this final season of Stranger Things. it does go on veer around as the best conversations with Winona does and I think you're going to enjoy it if you love her love her career you're going to dig this before we go to the Winona Ryder conversation a brief mention as always check out our Patreon you get early access to all our episodes of Happy Say I Confused and bonus materials and merch and all that kind of fun stuff patreon.com slash happy say I confused you also get a heads up on our live events that we're doing, including we're doing Walker Scobell.

3:47If you have a Percy Jackson fan in your life, December 19th, I think that's the date. I think I got that right. This is going to sell out. There are some tickets available, but they are going fast. So get in on that. If you have a Percy Jackson fan in your life and you're in New York, come on out. The link for tickets is in the show notes. Okay, not much more to say about this Winona conversation, except to say, as always, I'm very grateful that she trusts me when she doesn't do a lot of press. She does tease, by the way, at the end of this conversation, wanting to do another conversation. TBD in that.

4:21I don't know if we're actually going to do it or not. I'd love to, of course, but we'll see if the ships align. But for now, an embarrassment of riches, a long-form conversation with everybody's favorite Joyce Byers, Stranger Things. By the way, Volume 1 hits Netflix later this week. Volume 2, Christmas. And then the finale, New Year's Eve. So lots of excitement to come. And by the way, some more Happy, Say, Confused Stranger Things episodes are afoot. So stay tuned. And without any further ado, here's me catching up in person in Los Angeles with Winona Ryder. Winona, good to see you as always.

5:04Here we go again. I know. This is the intersection of Winona Ryder fans, Happy, Say, Confused fans. This is what they want. This is what they want. We want and they want. We want. It's good to see you. Hello. Who are they? Who are they? These days. Yeah. They're people with good taste. Yeah. Yeah. Are you feeling happy, sad, or confused as you sit here? I think like it's just been such a big, it's hard to pinpoint like how I feel. And I felt like this, like I felt like this the whole season. And I felt this sort of really wanting to focus on the kids because I remember being their age and rapping.

5:54Well, actually, I remember being a young teenager and rapping. They're such tender years. You're adolescence. I remember like wrapping things and truly thinking I might never see any of the people again and being kind of afraid and really sad. And but with but now, like at my age with perspective, like I will always know a lot of these kids, you know, like I'm going to know. Finn for the rest of my life, I'm going to know, you know, I hope I get to work with them again. I hope I, you know. And they met you at such a formative time. They did. And so for them, it's like half of their entire lives.

6:46For me, it's the last 10 years, which is crazy. Well, you've played this character more than any other character in your career. I know. I know. When you think back to the beginning days, 10 years ago, and we've talked about this, like, you know, you didn't know what a streamer was, Netflix was, what you were. I mean, you kind of knew what you were getting into, but you didn't. Obviously, you couldn't. Nobody could. No. I mean, what would you say to Winona 10 years ago that was kind of like on the fence about getting into this? Oh my god. I don't know. Just like buckle up. I mean I truly think this show is so much about the kids and I think it was very the first season was like a lot of work for me because it was such an emotional season and it was like my first time having to be that emotional without like necessarily like the 20 minutes to be able to get there so I kind of just had to stay in this like level of emotion that was very challenging but um after that and you know with the reception it got and like the kids just sort of like skyrocketing into this sort of global you know yeah it's unprecedented yeah yeah i there was something that happened sort of around season three where it and it was very liberating and relieving for me because I realized this really is about them.

8:45And instead of like trying to figure out like what I could do and what I can, you know, a storyline or like it really, you know. You're getting out of your own head and letting yourself. Exactly. Like it just. See the big picture. Yeah. Yeah. And it really has been like a real, I just feel like, because there's the younger kids and then there's the older kids. And I just feel so lucky to know them and to have them in my life. And I really, that's what's so bittersweet about it ending, honestly. is is but i do i i've been really trying to to get them to understand like it it doesn't mean like our friendship is over yeah yeah and and yeah Yeah.

10:03Well, it's funny because we've talked before about mentorship and how you, early in your career, you looked up to this generation before you and at least got a chance to spend time with this generation. And that meant so much to you. So I'm just curious, I don't know if you have a go-to and kind of like when people are coming to you for general advice or specific advice, because I read something where like Timmy, who worked with you briefly on that commercial, like talked about like, even in that time, you gave him some very useful tips, he said. Oh, really? I don't know if you remember that. Oh, wow.

10:38But generally, what do you say to an actor of a younger generation that's looking for a little bit of guidance? Well, I mean, it it's such a different world because of you know I didn't grow up with the internet or social media or any of that um I'm really proud of the kids because I think they each I watched them each figure out how to take breaks from that right I remember like Caleb just turned off his like And he was like, God, it's great. You know, like, because I think people are, there is a real, like, addiction to your phone and, you know, whatever. And, but I do, I think if, if I'm really honest, I have this, I don't know if I've ever told you this.

11:36I worked with this really great actor, Trey Wilson, on Great Balls of Fire. He played Sam Phillips. And I just loved this guy. And he unfortunately passed away during the film. He was only 39. But we used to watch the dailies on the 14th floor of the Radisson in Memphis, in a room. And I remember the last time I saw him, we had watched the dailies, And it was like a particularly fun scene. And he walked me back to my room and we were walking down the stairs of a hotel. And he sort of stopped me and he's like, you're having a really, I can, you're having such a good time. When it doesn't feel like that anymore, you like.

12:30You gotta take a break, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that really, like, I really just heard that in that moment. And that really stayed with me. And I thought that was a really important piece of advice. And I've tried with the kids on this. I've tried to sort of, I want them to know that they made the show what it is. it they're not they're you know everyone we all know how grateful we all are for these for this opportunity to be part of the show and that narrative has been like we all know that and but i've i've been like no you know you are what everyone fell in love with like you the charm, the authenticity, your talent.

13:32Like people fell in love with these kids. I shouldn't say fell in love. But you know, they absolutely connected with these kids because these kids are that special and unique and authentic and that sort of effortless charm, you know. And I want, I really tried to drill that into them because I think it's so important when you are part of something that's so, like, huge. And that, you know, people spend a lot of money to make it, you know, like that. Those kids are really, really special. It is. Netflix is so lucky to have them. and they are what made this show what it is. Yeah, I mean, with all due respect to the bells and whistles and it's so beautifully made and obviously the Duffers do a great job, but it's about characters and the fact that those, it's so emotional, I think, for the audience now saying goodbye because they have kind of grown up with them and seeing them.

14:42I mean, just watching the first couple episodes. Did you see them? I haven't seen them. But like, I mean, you've experienced this. You're with them, but like seeing literally they're different people now in many ways. It's a very unusual. It's like the one watching Richard Linklater's boyhood and watching that kind of transition. That's a great example. So powerful. Yeah. I feel like it's like, again, they were at such a tender age and I have a thing about protecting. I really tried to protect. I think it's important. I know we're living in a very confusing world, like socially, you know, politically, like it's very complicated, but there and people, you know, it's not lost on me that the word fan.

15:46fandom fan comes from the word fanatic and um which is often you know was often i used with in terms of religion or something which is very personal and very powerful and but i think to it's really important to um for them to be able to like experience those tender years in a in a in a environment where they don't they're they're not getting so much like outside the noise the noise yeah And by the way, we've all like every actor that I know that's that started young. We all know what that's like. We've all gone through stages. I think the difference now is that like it's it's everything is documented.

16:54Yes. Which is crazy. It's crazy, Josh. Well, it's crazy. like you you know the way you came up and the intensity around your fan base like you even without instagram and all of that you had about as close as they can experience because you were at the center of madness the fact that you came out of it sane is right i always think about though when i the with the word fan i always think of that scene and almost famous where he's talking the Lester Banks and he's like, well, I just can't sit around talking to my many fans. And it's literally just him. He says that to the kid. Right, right, right.

17:36So every time I'm asked like about my face, like I'm like, I can't sit around. I feel like I'm Lester Banks. Okay, so we just passed. As we taped this, like Halloween was a few days ago. And I bet like every year friends or whatever send you photos of like people dressed up as some of your iconic characters, or you see sometimes like tattoos or shirts that say Winona forever. Like, I mean, you are very much a part of pop culture that is so sticky to the next generation and the generation to come. And I mean, every generation is gonna watch Heathers and Reality Bites, and it's gonna mean something to them.

18:17You think? I don't know. I think so. It's interesting. I feel like it's such a weird path because on one hand, you will, you know, like the kids on the show. There are some that have watched all of those movies and, you know, ask me about them and da-da-da. There were some that had never seen any of those movies and didn't know what I was talking about. And I know we talked last time about that game. Yes, the heads up game. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Heads up, I think. Like the trivia where I knew like nothing about today. But I, you know, and I do also recognize that I have, I don't know, you know, I know that a lot of people like have discovered that they're like on the spectrum.

19:18Or, you know, and I kind of remember, like, I remember Anthony Hopkins. Yes. And Dan Aykroyd and Annie Lennox. Just, I think, I'm, like, of the generation where it was just called life. Right. You know, there was no. Now it's diagnosed. But back in the day, it was just eccentricity. I like been having conversations like with, with Scott, with my partner about like, I wonder if we're all like, I think maybe everyone is somewhere on that spectrum. Because I do have this thing of like, I can retain a lot of information, but often it's not, it's just very, it can be very random. Right. But then it can be.

20:14And I do. I think when I talk about movies and when I show Scott movies, I go into this this 1942. Like I go into this like sort of like I have to say all of this stuff because this is like the context which you need to understand. You opened up that book in the library. You're like ready. I got that. Yeah, like, and this is where it was shot, and this is where, like, and I don't know what that sounds like or looks like. What the name is for that, but it's how your brain works. Interesting because my agent that I'm with now, he was my old agent's assistant. Oh, wow. Like from many years ago who used to have these like screenings of old movies.

21:03And my agent was like, you were always there giving the intro. Let me set this up for you guys. Like with every old movie, you were, you know, you know, it's interesting. I don't know if that's sort of a spectrum thing. Right. But it is part of who I am. And I think I was embarrassed about it for a long time. And now I'm just like, well. This is who I am. It's who I am. We always talk about a couple of random films and the filmography. So not surprisingly, there's some we've never discussed. Let me just bring up a couple more. Because every time we open up a new volume in the Winona Ryder filmography, we've never talked about Girl Interrupted.

21:50Oh, wow. We haven't? No, I know. Surprisingly. And you were an EP on that. That's another one like, kind of like Dracula that you kind of helped birth into existence, I believe. Oh, yeah. I would. I, by the way, watched Dracula. It was on on Halloween. And I thought of you because you said you like watched it so many times. I watched it so often. And I was like, this is amazing. Thank you. Yes, it is. Because it was all practical effects. And Roman, who was a kid, was doing such an amazing, he did all the second unit stuff. And every transition in that, I. Did any scene jump out at you? Did it ignite any?

22:32Must have ignite a lot of memories. Oh, yeah. Crazy, crazy. Give me a minute. Give me something. I mean, what do you want? I remember everything. Literally. The prologue, the epic prologue. Oh, Elizabeth. The one that Van Helsing says, well, I had to learn a Romanian. You can't really hear it, but I'm pleading with him in Romanian. Authentic Romanian. worked with the great Monica Bellucci was one of his brides. Right. I mean, I think because it was such a, I mean, that was all on a soundstage and all practical effects. There was no CGI in that. It's remarkable. What an achievement. Amazing. And also the sort of what I always was like nervous that it was there was like it was too campy.

23:37It's operatic intentionally, though. It's you know what I realized? There's a shot where when I first meet the young prince. Yes. Rockstar Dracula. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. When I'm he takes me to the cinematic and I'm in a I think that was probably what I was most self-conscious about. But in that shot, you can see that I'm wearing like a lot of lipstick. And that really affected me when I saw it because I was like, that isn't like period. And oh, no, like weird little tiny details that probably don't other people. But I'm like, oh, God, you can see. Now you've ruined it for all of us. See, and then it's just not period.

24:24And that had like an impact on me. Also, I mean, the scene where where he comes in as the mist and, you know, I just remember that that day so clearly. I remember the taste of the flood and, um, I like it, I, you know, it tasted a little bit like, like cherry nightfall, you know, or something, but I, I do. And I remember like loving Francis so much and feeling um and i i just remember how he i have i told you what he would do sure and i don't i like has i'm reluctant because i i think it was kind of amazing but he would be like we before we were gonna do and if it was sort of like a a big shot like in the garden with like the labyrinth he'd be like or in the street he'd be like okay london like an action and we're all like what you know and but he would like kind of call out to us right and this also before video village you know i love when directors are right there yeah We're hiding in a tent somewhere.

25:58And I feel like every director should do that, should do that a couple of times, as much as they can. Sure. Because it's a gift to the actor. It means so much to us. Yeah. And I remember when that, like, transition happened, it got, it can get, it can feel very. Well, you're not connected. yeah like they're doing their own thing and there are you know and i think i i maybe because i had so much of i got to experience that so much maybe i'm just spoiled because a lot of like i i was talking to i think noah like like he was like what are you talking about and i was like not the norm anymore they used to be right next to the camera yeah and like watching us and he was like i don't like what do you mean I can't even process what you're talking about yeah no I will say by the way I interviewed Francis did the podcast last year for Megalopolis I mean what a to spend an hour with that man the theater games he still does I know I have such reverence for that man so have you seen the doc about Megalopolis no the doc about the making of Dracula I think I have yeah yeah I discovered it on YouTube and it's It's amazing.

27:24And there are, there's a lot of footage of us in Napa, like throwing sounds at each other. And I really appreciated Billy Campbell's being so honest. He was like, I felt, I kind of felt stupid. I was embarrassed, you know, because there is an element of that in the beginning. it takes a while to be able to like be that sort of silly in front of 100 especially you're working with like one of america's yes the great you know yeah anyway no that's that's the best of tangents i will take any day it's still playing like all the time at the paris theater around my corner someday i want to tell you about yeah all the auditions when there was um an actor who came in and he decided to not use words in the screen test which was very interesting and i kind of was daniel day lewis almost dracula at one point no okay i think okay gosh i because my left foot was like 89 he i think he was three years later yeah okay i think we shot it in 91 sounds right But I do like there were a lot of actors and it was it was fascinating.

28:49And also, I just remembered I also want to tell you about the Heathers auditions, because all the guys that came in, it's the scene where I'm like fake hanging. And so I just had to stand on a chair like this. And I couldn't, sometimes like I wanted to watch them, but I'll tell you. I mean, I'll listen to that now if you want, I'm here. But can I ask about a girl interrupted? Cause you assemble such an ensemble for that one. And obviously Angelina wins the Oscar, but Lizzie Moss and Brittany. I know. I mean, I would imagine you were very involved in the acting of that. I mean, you must've had a heavy input in that with Jen Mangold.

29:32I did. Well, I, you know, remember really like I remember my meetings with him trying to trying to get him to do it. And that was based off of Heavy. Right. Which I I just like had a really profound like I loved it. I loved Vincent the actor. Yeah. And I knew it was like, it was a tricky story to tell because it was really just a chapter. And there wasn't like, it wasn't like plot driven. That had to be a little bit constructed. But yeah, that was an amazing experience to be around all of those amazing actresses.

30:41We were talking about docs. Have you watched the Scorsese doc yet? This five parts? Oh, I am loving it. So good, right? Yeah. I also, because I worked with Rebecca Miller. I worked with Arthur. I worked with Inga. She photographed me. And I worked with Daniel. Daniel, of course. So I'm like, okay, Ronan, you're next. Exactly. No, I... Well, you need to complete the trio with Daniel. You've got two. You're probably one of a very small handful of actors that worked with Daniel twice. Yeah, I, you know, I texted that like I, I, I guess they it all like his movie came out and her. I, I, I love that.

31:31I haven't watched all of it, but it's it's she did a brilliant job. It's so moving. I know. It's so it's so moving. Even the stories that I was I'm like familiar with. Right. It's just so well, well done. They cover literally, you'll see by the time you get through it, like literally all of his films. I don't know how she was able to do it. Yeah. So are we closer to a Daniel Day-Lewis collab or a Keanu collab? Any talk with either lately? I mean, what a dream. Have you seen Keanu on Broadway? I'm literally going to New York to see him. That's our reason. Yeah. That's a good reason. I mean, also that play, Waiting for Godot, is a huge thing in my family because my father saw it when it first opened on Broadway.

32:24We had like the arty uncle or he had like the arty uncle that was like taking him. And he was 16 and it made him become a writer. Wow. It made him like choose. Yeah. And then he became kind of obsessed with Beckett. Right. And he was stationed in France during the time there wasn't anything going on. But he went to this cafe for a couple of years that he heard that Beckett frequented. He was on the wrong bank. Right. Left or right. It's hard. It's so Beckett, right? It's such a... Classic Beckett move. Beckett. thing. Yeah. You'll like the production's pretty amazing. Oh, I can't wait. I can't wait.

33:15You mentioned, I mean, like we've obviously talked, like you've always been such a reader, parents, writers, like do you write? Have you ever written? Like, are you? Oh my God. I, yeah, I do write so much. I. In what form? Like, is it like. I, I, it's usually just journal and thoughts and, you know, watch something or it's sort of just, I can, I'll show you my giant notebooks, but I, I found this old, it's funny, I found this old notebook where it was from when I was around like 21 and i think i had i remember my um therapist had i was like dealing with anxiety for the first time he had said um if you draw like i listened to a lot of music and he said draw out the lyrics just to like keep yourself yeah like focused on you know and just breathe yeah and so i found this I'll text you a picture.

34:30Like, it's like just characters in, I mean, it's Bruce Springsteen. But it's like the story of, you know, Mary on the porch. Right. And, you know, the radio playing Roy Orbison. Sure. And it's just like the back. It's just sketches. and then just all the what a great um what great advice to because i was also traveling and working and you know just dealing with yeah like a way to channel something and it's such a it was such a great piece of advice and i filled notebooks with all right yeah finish this sentence for me i wish I wish someone would offer me a script where I get to. Ooh. What can we manifest for you?

35:28What are you wanting right now that you're not getting a chance, that people aren't even envisioning for you at this point? I just, wait, the sentence that - So the sentence is something to the effect of, I wish someone would offer me a script where I get to. Where there's, where it's just characters, characters has nothing to do with effects genre no yeah it hasn't well it there's that there's it's that is just um i just watched that this patty chayefsky documentary like it's called collector of words okay and i that made me go watch the movie marty again right which is such a like simple but gorgeous and it makes you feel so much and by the way mr redford that the fact that he in quiz show like this show's one of my all-time i know herbie had to take a fall on money it just that's like the biggest injustice but um i it made me go sort of watch some of the hospital, the Paddy Chayefs network.

36:50And it's words. Yes. Incredible. Like, I guess they're called kitchen sink. Right. You know, I love those. And I want, I feel like we need those back. We, I feel like there's there's there should be a variety. Right, we're well taken care of on one end. Yes, exactly. Now we got that taken care of guys. And for real, I feel like there needs to be more kitchen sink. Okay, we're gonna manifest. Yeah. Okay, here's how we're gonna end this. This is gonna be a tough challenge for you, you ready? I've been doing this with actors that have amazing filmographies. I'm gonna pit some of your own movies against each other and you're gonna anoint the greatest Winona Ryder film of all time.

37:42Okay, does it have to do with just the movie as a whole? Yeah, you can separate your performance out of it. Just like, which, and it's a gut thing. This is not definitive, but just as I do this, bear with me, here we go. You're gonna have to choose Black Swan versus Dracula. Oh, wait, that's so hard. I know it is. Today, today it's... So I have to like imagine a world without one of those? Yeah, something like that, yeah. That's terrible. It's horrible. I agree. I mean, I feel like if I say, I feel like saying - You're not betraying either. It feels like a huge betrayal. And it also feels, I mean, I love Natalie so much and she was so brilliant in that.