Yahya Abdul Mateen II, Vol. II

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0:47Whether you're DIY it or want a pro to handle everything from measure to install, we have you covered. Real design professionals, free samples, zero pressure. Save up to 40 % when you buy two or more. Rules and restrictions apply. This is what I said. I said, this sounds like a great opportunity, but I only get one Marvel dollar to spend. That's what I said. I told him, I said, I only get one dollar to spend, and I want to make sure that I spend it well. So that was really the question that I was asking him. And I wanted to have that conversation with him to say, me saying yes is a huge gamble because I really, really, really like what you all do.

1:31So if this isn't the time for me to say yes, let me know because I will sit to the side and wait until it makes sense. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins.

1:47Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the show, it's Yaya Abdul-Mateen II second with a look back at Wonder Man, a look forward with Man on Fire, and much, much more. Hey guys, thanks as always for checking out the podcast. If you haven't already, you know what to do. Hit that subscribe button on YouTube or Spotify or however you're enjoying this podcast. 700 plus episodes, 12 years. There's something for everybody in the archives. So if you haven't dug into them, do yourself a favor, pick out your favorite actor, filmmaker, they're probably in the Happy Sad Confused archives.

2:22And a reminder, if you like what I do, if you want to support what I do, Patreon is your best friend and really mine too. It helps us make more stuff over here. Patreon.com slash happy sad confused. Get early access to every single episode. You get guest announcements. You get discount codes to all of our live events. So we have a ton. You get autographed merch, all sorts of bonus content. Patreon.com slash happy sad confused. And we do have a bunch of live events, I should say, coming up, including May 3rd in New York City with Charlie Cox, May 5th in New York City with Stanley Tucci, May 13th in Los Angeles with the Duffer Brothers, May 17th in New York City with Billy Eichner, and we have one more I think we haven't announced yet.

3:06I'm not going to say it just yet, but that's enough. That's a lot and more to come. Okay, let's talk about the main event. It is Yahya Abdul-Mateen II, his second visit to the podcast. The last time we chatted was 2019 and he had it all happening then and he still does in a different way. Back then, it was a conversation about his role in Watchmen, one of my favorite series of all time, probably, certainly in the last 10 years. And no spoilers, but Yaya has a very pivotal role in that series. We talked about that in the last conversation. He was on the eve of doing the second Aquaman movie, of doing The Matrix.

3:43He had it all happening. He ended up winning an Emmy for that role in Watchmen. And this is a really cool conversation today because it's fun to kind of come full circle and look back at where he was and where he is now. Some really eye-opening insights into where he was coming off of that Emmy win and questioning himself and questioning what to chase and how to chase it and whether it needed a break. Really a candid conversation here about pulling out of a major role in Furiosa the Mad Max sequel, prequel, however you want to call it. But thankfully, Yaya is in a great place now. He's had an amazing run on Broadway and Top Dog Underdog, and now in television, two major shows.

4:27So you all know and love probably, like me, Wonder Man, one of the best Marvel shows, I think. Probably the best Marvel show, I would say, since WandaVision. He killed it in that, as did Sir Ben Kingsley. He also has a new Netflix series out, Man on Fire. Yes, it is another adaptation of that story, the iconic film starring Denzel Washington, big shoes to fill, but Yaya is the man for the job. Smart, confident, leading man, great actor, really fun conversation. I'm so thrilled he came back to the podcast for this chat. So yeah, without any further ado, here it is. This is me and Yahya Abdul Mateen II.

5:10Enjoy. Yahya, welcome back to the podcast, man. It's been a long time. Thankfully, you've been very busy making it easy for me to have a chat with you today. There's a lot to catch up on. It's good to see you, man. It's good to be back with you. I'm sorry that we're not connecting in person in New York, but honestly, for me, it's good because it reminds me of my personal inadequacies as an adult male. I don't feel like a real functional human man next to you. Oh, get out of here, man. I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear it. Get out of here. I'm flattered. How long have you been in New York?

5:46We talked in 2019. Were you living in this? I know you were shooting in the city then, but were you living here then? Yeah, I've been in New York since I came to New York in the summer of 2015. Yeah, summer 2015. Okay, so why is New York the place for you versus Elle? You don't have to sell me on it. I'm a lifelong New Yorker, but tell me why it's for you. This is where my stuff is. And it's kind of been that way. You know what I mean? I came here for the get down back in 2015. And I remember my teacher said, don't buy furniture. That was her piece of advice for everyone. You know, don't buy furniture because if you're working.

6:27Meaning you might be itinerant, you might be moving, you might be. Exactly that. You know, like a couple of years out of school, don't buy furniture. And I didn't. And New York, and it sort of worked that way. It was great advice because I was bouncing all around, all around the globe, really. I was really fortunate, you know, to come out, hit the ground running, and then eventually I got some furniture. And now I'm here because this is where my stuff is. You know, relationships and things like that as well. A lot of great things happened over the last 10 years. So for right now, I'm still in New York.

7:03Good. Okay. Not that you needed more points with me, but that earns you special points with me. Yeah, yeah. So we're going to cover a lot today because you've got two, one recent show, one brand new show, both of which I've been watching. I watched all of Wonder Man. I've watched the first few of Man on Fire, so we're going to catch up on that and a lot of things. So when you're out and about lately in Starbucks or whatever, are you getting more, hey, Wonder Man, hey, Black Manta? What are you getting lately for people that recognize you? People really, really like Wonder Band, man. And, you know, that's the most recent thing.

7:35And it's just been a great conversation out there. There's so many people who, you know, gravitate toward that project for all different types of reasons. I have actors, musicians, directors, writers, people even outside of the business who just relate to just having dreams and relate to being counted out and being on that edge and figuring out whether or not they're going to go for it or whether or not they're going to make a left turn. It's really nice. It's a really good energy out there right now. it's it's uh you know i'm not just saying this it's my best it's my favorite marvel series since the first one since wandavision you guys killed it it's like and i think i think it shares some dna in that in that like they both like if you look at it you know they're like sure they're superhero shows but they're they're they're so much i mean wandavision was all about grief and and mental illness to a degree and this show is is just it's like you know it's a it's a relationship buddy bromance Hollywood satire disguised as a superhero show and I think that's why it is it is working and I have to say I'm so relieved because I don't know how like it in it you were but like for those of us that cover this you know it was kind of sitting there for a while we were like when is it coming out yeah like and you start to worry you're like what's what's something happened with Wonder Man and like I mean were you aware of that too were you like I I thought we nailed it but why are they not pushing it out like how where were you kind of that I mean uh really that stuff was uh above my pay grade and this really wasn't my job to think about that that's the that's the honest truth about that but the second thing in that was just a little bit of a lesson is just um and this is actually came from Patrick Wilson um Patrick Wilson when I was doing the first Aquaman it was after I did Baywatch and he was asking me uh how I felt about the movie and the movie had already come out and it was like my recollection was it was like moderately well received and it was like sort of in the middle sort of like right down the middle you know what i mean and uh i remember telling him saying something like uh it was all right like it's the answer that i gave him had more to do with the reception of the film as opposed to my experience and he and he saw that and you know I did now I'm two years out of school I'm two maybe maybe I'm two years into the business and he's like hey don't make it a habit of of like assessing your experience based on how something performs um and I um I latched on to that and I had to go back and reflect and I was like oh yeah I actually had a really good time making that so So that's how it was.

10:32And it was the same thing for Wonder Man in this case. I didn't really think much about, you know, when are they going to put it out or like why what's taking so long? I had known that we had some some stops and starts due to the strike. You know, the first time around, it was the act strike. I think the second time around, it was the writer's strike, if I'm not mistaken. So we dealt with those things. So so I knew that it was going to be a while. But I also knew that the thing that I was a part of, I was excited to give that away. It's funny. I mean, first of all, I love Patrick. He's one of the good guys out there.

11:12I adore that guy. And that doesn't surprise me that it has that kind of lesson to impart. But it also strikes me because I was listening back to our conversation way back when. And then I was listening to some recent conversations you've had. And I find it so fascinating. And I love how honest you've been about this. It's kind of the journey you've been on through your career since. Because I talked to you in 2019, and it's all happening. Like, you're about to do Matrix. You've got Watchmen. Like, you're about to do Walkman 2. Like, you are high as a kite. You're so thrilled. You win the Emmy.

11:44You win the Emmy for Watchmen, as you should. I won the Emmy before the conversation? No, you hadn't won the Emmy yet. But, like, you were on the way. All right, all right. So you're there. And then I hear these conversations with you that you've recently had. And I find this so refreshing because I don't think most actors would say what you've said. You win the Emmy. And what does it do for you, Yaya? Oh, I mean, what do I say in my interviews? I probably... You're saying it didn't fulfill you. It didn't do anything in a way. Yeah, that's consistent. And it's because look at what the world was at that time, man.

12:22I mean, it was tough times in the world, even aside from the pandemic. You know, there were some things going on in the world around the time where Watchmen came out. And, you know, it was the world was changing. And it was just challenging. It's an understatement, but it was challenging times. And then at that time, at the height of the pandemic, you know, I won this award. I don't get to go to the ceremony. So it's not like I was getting my pictures taken and meeting people and things like that. So I never really got the high of it. So the truth is that while I'm deeply, deeply appreciative of that award, which is right here, by the way.

13:19actually just coincidentally it's just right here just drop that there like no but it's just right here on the like on the desk uh like right you have a tether too you walk around the tracks right behind you it just happened to be right there um but everybody that was such an important lesson you know for me to have that um beautiful experience but that humbling experience very very early on because it did not feel me on the inside and i said okay um great to know and i wasn't expecting it to but the way that it happened it was like okay great to know that's really great to know and so now i don't have to think about chasing any type of external validation always you know to be able to uh be humble enough and gracious enough to receive with real thanks which i do um and and i'm extremely proud of the work and extremely proud of that accomplishment because that's no small feat.

14:19But I'm able to understand it all in context and then keep on going. But I also so respect the fact that around, I don't know if I have quite the chronology right, but you also do something that most actors would not do. You take a break. You say, I'm burnt out. I'm getting all these great opportunities. I'm cast in Furiosa, George Miller's next film. George Miller, the best. It's like ultimate. And you know yourself enough to say, I'm not going to be able to deliver what I need to deliver. Absolutely. For the long run, I need to take a break. Yeah, absolutely. That was, I was honest, man. You know, like I said, I graduated in 2015.

15:02And I had already been making my trips from New Haven to New York to rehearse for the get down. You know, my first big scene was 10 days after I graduated. I'm shooting this big scene, this big disco scene in Les Inferno. So I had... Basil Lerman, the whole thing. Yeah, yeah, man. So I started working. Yeah. And then from the get down, I do a movie called First Match. And then first match, I go do another movie with Logan Lerman. Oh, Sidney Hall? I go do Sidney Hall. Thank you. and then from there i saw that at sundance i remember that one day watch and then from bay watch i'm i'm all the way i'm doing greatest showman and i'm then i'm in australia and then from australia i go to canada to go do handmaid's tale and then from there i go to atlanta to go and do watchman then i go to la for a bit and then i go to chicago then i'm then i look up and i'm in new york for a spell doing uh doing trial of chicago seven and then boom pandemic and then And I'm off to Berlin, to San Francisco, and then Berlin.

16:13Right? From Berlin, I come back, I touch down a little bit, and I forget what I do after that. But then I'm back in London doing Aquaman 2. And now it's 2021 by now. And I'm tired. You know? I'm tired listening to it. And I'm tired. That was the journey. And I know I left stuff. I left out Brazil. You know, even in that, I left out. I would go to Brazil to do Black Mirror. Now, all of these are not. I won't call them champagne problems, but these are these are gifts. These are these are blessings, you know, the entire way. But it did come with something else, which was me just being very, very tired.

16:54And the world was changing. The world was responding to me differently. You know, just as a as this as a all of a sudden I'm sort of some type of commodity and people are looking at me. differently. I'm just adjusting to this new reality at the same time as the world is changing and then whatever else it was I had going on in my own personal life, um, and still having to persevere and perform. And yeah, I'm in, I'm in, uh, I'm in London and George Miller is, he's on top of it. He's already, we're already on the phone and on Zooms one year before the, before the movie is going to shoot. Oh, I know his process.

17:37I know. Yeah, it's deep. And that was, it wasn't overwhelming. It was so cool. It was actually so cool because he loved it. And it was like the only thing that he cared about. And he made the time in his life to do that. And he had his actors, you know, involved in the process a year ahead, just having creative conversations and imaginative conversations. And I knew deep down inside that it was too much and that I needed to rest. So, you know, I'm so glad that I handled that. Honestly, you know, that, that, that, that, that I was honest about the, you know, the way that I handled that because then I could separate myself from that with integrity and let, another actor step in to do a fantastic job and bring everything that they had.

18:33And also, it allowed me to rest and rejuvenate and recalibrate and then wait, continue to say no until the right thing showed up. And that's when Top Dog, Under Dog showed up. Which I know is a very meaningful, very important experience for you to do that. It was extremely meaningful for me to do that. Yeah, it was a dream role. It was my dream role, my first time going back to theater and my first time on Broadway. And I needed that because, one, I just loved it. It felt like it was written for me. And it was a challenge to remind me that, like, hey, you're pretty good at this thing. Don't forget.

19:13Now go and go and work and go and earn it. And, boy, did we ever go after that for 100-something-plus shows. That was a hot ticket. I missed you, buddy. You need to get back on the stage. That was you and Corey, right? Yeah, myself and Corey Hawkins. Yeah. And then, but lastly, just to bring that home, that warmed me up for Wonder Man. That got me conditioned and in shape. When I had the first conversation with Sir Ben Kingsley, I was on stage. It was in between shows. You know, when I had my first meeting with Sir Ben Kingsley, we talked a little bit about the show and my appreciation for theater and his appreciation for theater and things like that.

19:51So I walked off the stage to Wonder Man, had a little about a few weeks to like get myself together. And then I went to work on on. I mean, off the stage for. Top Dog, Underdog, and had a couple of weeks to get myself, you know, together, went to work to Wonder Man. And all of that is starting to happen when I'm honest and when I say, you know, thank you, but no thank you to Mad Max. And look how it's all played out. Lots of lessons there. And I'm sure you earned some cred with Sir Ben saying, I'm walking off the stage of this prestigious show. I'm not just a Marvel superhero guy, man. I got the goods.

20:33Yeah, for sure. We'll be right back with more Happy Sad Confused.

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24:05So talk to me a little bit. I know Destin was also like a huge factor, if not the factor in working on this one. He's an exceptional filmmaker. Talk to me a little bit, because I know we talked way back when you had, I know you'd at least like been in the Marvel sphere, Like you went up for M 'Baku, your buddy Winston ended up getting that one in Black Panther. Was that the only Marvel role you had ever kind of seriously discussed? Yeah, that was the only one. Because after that, Black Manta was there very, very shortly after that. Got it. So when this one comes around, like, is it an easy, like, what's the pitch from Destin?

24:43Like, I mean, it sounds like you didn't really, I don't want to put words in your mouth, But it wasn't like you didn't care that this wasn't going to be like a full on superhero role. You just wanted that experience of working with him. Someone like that. That's that's not exactly true. I forget what the pitch was.

25:02Let me try to remember. But the pitch was it was something like, you know, this this, you know, they're going to do it kind of differently. You know, Destin is going to shoot it like he shoots his indies. It's going to feel, you know, kind of different. We're not kind of go after the big superhero thing. And this guy cares about acting. He cares about the craft. And, you know, he may be, you know, he's a little strange and, you know, but, you know, we think that he's relatable. We would love to have someone who cares about who's passionate about acting and maybe even the theater and the craft and X, Y, Z.

25:35Those were the sort of the details. And I'm listening. I'm like, this sounds good. This sounds good. This sounds good. and I would love to work with Destin because Destin has a great vibe. But I need to speak to Kevin. And it was like, well, maybe, you know, maybe, you know, Kevin's busy and I'm like, I need to speak to Kevin. Because you want the big picture? You want Flygy to... I wanted to have a conversation with him to say, like, not necessarily where is this going to go? I didn't flat out ask that question. But I wanted to know, like, I said, hey man, this is what I said. I said, this sounds like a great opportunity, but I only get one Marvel dollar to spend.

26:21That's what I said. I told him, I said, I only get one dollar to spend and I want to make sure that I spend it well. So that was really the question that I was asking him. And I wanted to have that conversation with him to say, me saying yes is a huge gamble because I really, really, really like what you all do. So if this isn't the time for me to say yes, let me know because I will sit to the side and wait until it makes sense. Right. 2029, next Ironman. I'm ready for you. I'll wait it out. I'll do it. I'll wait because I really, really dig what they do. So I didn't want to play myself small, you know?

27:03So I, I, I remember that. My guys were like, maybe he's busy. Not necessarily he's busy, but they were just saying, bro, this is a big deal. And I'm like, I need to speak to Kevin. So what did he say? He let me know that it'll be a dollar well spent. And we talked, and I told him some of the things that I wanted to do. And I said, and you know, Kevin, I said, people don't know that I'm funny. And when I did that, I remember, I remember he said, he did like that. He said, yes. I don't know what he saw that let him know that I was funny. That had some, had some comedy out there. But I said, people don't know that I'm funny.

27:46He says, yes. And that's what I wanted to let people know and show some colors. And then every, it was just fantastic. It was just, it was just really, really fantastic. But I did, it was very important for me to make it count. And you made it count. I mean, you and Sir Ben have gotten amazing reviews on this. And it's like, look, it's going to get a justifiable awards run. I hope you guys both receive it. Not that it's all, as we know from the Emmys, it's not what it's about. But it's nice to be in that conversation. And now it's been greenlit for season two, which isn't happening a lot in the Marvel TV universe, as you know.