42. Kellie Finlayson: The NFL vs the AFL, and Thriving Despite Diagnosis

27:56And he did, don't get me wrong, he did play well, but he wasn't the best on the field. And like examples like that or like someone got subbed off, so we've got subs. So you can sub one player off, they don't come back on the field at all ever again for that game. But another player steps into his place and now they are playing in the 22 that play. So we've got four on the bench usually and a sub. And, yeah, so you can sub them on. Anyway, someone got subbed off at halftime, but he's still got best player for that game. So, like, obviously the umpires, they just don't see it. They're not allowed to see the statistics or anything like that when they're deciding.

28:30So they genuinely just have to go off of, like, what names do they think would have played well if they weren't sure. Yeah, it's crazy. That is wild.

28:41Kellie Finlayson:I know. It's so wild. But honestly, our fans are like umpires as well in the stands. Like you hear an uproar and then an umpire will change his decision. Or like a ball will go out and like the fans of the team that kicked it out will cheer. So the umpires will be like, oh, obviously it's their ball. What? I'm sure that doesn't happen often, but like we've seen some fun things. But do you guys have like big screens and stuff? yeah we've got one or two not not as big as the star yeah yeah yeah like inside inside of Cowboys and then there's also like SoFi Stadium's a huge stadium in LA just massive like every stadium that gets built has bigger and bigger screens which is great when you're like up in the nosebleeds yeah but not as great when you're like craning your neck to look up yeah no well I mean if you're craning your neck then you're in a good state to just watch the field I guess yeah yeah yeah yeah okay so we talked about before we hit record that wives and girlfriends are not as well received yeah in australia as they are here in america it's almost seen as like an insult to be labeled a wag like it's it's the truth we are either wives or girlfriends of these players but I feel like when we are put into that category people like look down on us like that's our only title for example I got papped the other day and it was like ex-wag stuns in pink dress and everyone's like she has a fucking name which like I get that point of view but at the same time like if you are a wag you're like seen as entitled or like that that you literally are just living off your partner and it's like well it's not true like I have a job but like yeah, it's, it's, it's crazy.

30:29Kellie Finlayson:Yeah. I think there's a lot of wags here that don't love the term wag. And I think it's for the same reason that being called a wag basically puts you into this bucket that you're living off of your partner's money, which also if you are, who cares? Also, I know a lot of moms that stay at home moms and they don't have a husband that plays in the football league. Yeah. And like, nobody's getting mad at them. No. In fact, if you went back to work, you get looked down on. So like, yeah, anyway, being a woman. Oh my God. Right. But I think that, do you know, Kristen use check? I've heard the name.

31:07Yes.

31:07Kellie Finlayson:Okay. Yeah. So she makes, she has a brand called off season and she got started just making reworked stuff for wives and girlfriends and Taylor wore her stuff and she basically blew. And that's how I know her. Yep. Yep. Yeah. So she basically like blew up after that. And I feel like her class, but her and other girls building businesses off of the platform that they were given has changed the culture a lot here where at least women respect them a lot more and are interested. And then now we're seeing so much fashion in the NFL world. Like every game is a fashion show for the girls. The girls are starting their own businesses.

31:47Kellie Finlayson:They're influencers. They're doing events. They have podcasts. They have YouTube channels. And then like Jalen Hurts, who's the Eagles quarterback and, you know, won the Super Bowl last year. His wife is like in the C-suite at like IBM and there's like physician's assistant. So I feel like our culture is changing a lot, but I feel like the NFL is also in a renaissance where the NFL is looking to reach more audiences, namely women. So doing partnerships with like Abercrombie and going to Europe and they're trying to like expand a lot. And I think that their tone around wives and girlfriends and the way that they put them on their social media is also helping the girls a lot.

32:32Kellie Finlayson:Oh, they celebrate them. they celebrate them which is I think is incredible like you said in terms of the fashion as well like if a grown man wears a guernsey to an afl game we're like literally they're looked down on they're like when do you stop wearing a guernsey to the football which is so wild because obviously you go to an nfl game and every single person has at least some sort of merch on right like I used to wear quite nfl coded I guess like jackets with finlason and his number and stuff on my back and people would, he used to get like fined at the footy club for having me wear that jumper.

33:06Like they have like their fine system for like funny fines, right? It could be like a$50 fine and it just goes to that their end of season party or whatever. Anyway, but like, and then you go to the NFL and like, they literally got like their husband's name on their ass or like stars all up their pants. And like, I saw someone wore pajamas the other day to a Christmas one. I'm like, see, they don't even get looked at twice. And then we wear a jacket with our husband's name and it's like what are you doing I'm like it's such an exciting thing like we they should be celebrating just as much as like do you know what I mean yeah yeah you're like I'm in love what do you do when you're in love yeah you do okay but also like I've got a daughter she's allowed to wear a Guernsey with his name on it why can't I yeah wait is it is a Guernsey what you call a jersey yeah Guernsey jersey jumper yeah same same yeah I've never heard that word I'm gonna start calling my my jerseys a guernsey guernsey people will be like what are you talking about we'll be like well one time i interviewed this australian like this this merch wouldn't exist for the afl and if it does so much money so much money i've got a ugly jumper in my husband's like old team's colors which because he had teal black and white which i think is such beautiful colors i've like this ugly like pattern jumper that i wore to a game once and they were like oh i was like it's so cool.

34:28Like they wear a scarf at most. Yeah. I'm like, well, who's the real fan? Yeah. You're like, you're just wearing a t-shirt. How boring. Yeah. Literally like, come on guys. I love it. I love the merch. Like going to the game. I literally had stars on my jeans and everything. I was like, this is so much fun. If I did that here, I would literally get looked at sideways.

34:48Kellie Finlayson:That is really, it's really surprising because it's so much apart. Like we have the the Green Bay Packers and they're from Wisconsin and Wisconsin is known for its cheese. And so people will wear cheese head hats and they are genuinely so tacky. Like so, but people love them. And then now other teams have started wearing cheese grater hats. I get it. And so it's like, there are no bounds. There are no bounds here in the U S like you can wear anything that you want with the team name on it. I know. It's, I think it's fantastic. I feel like it is so much camaraderie. I love it. But yeah, here it's just, it's just not a thing.

35:33Like if I wore, so I'm actually a fan of a different team that my husband's never played for. It's just the team I grew up loving, right? Cause I played for a black and white team, netball and football as a kid. So then yeah. So this is the team I went for and I've got their Guernseys. I've got a whole team signed Guernsey from them. But if I ever wore that, oh my goodness, I would get so many looks. And I'm like, but every other kid here that has one signature, I have the whole team.

36:02Kellie Finlayson:It's so crazy. It's so wild. It is wild. Also, I just looked up how much it costs to buy an AFL team because we're in like the billion. We don't get to buy teams. They don't, you're not allowed to buy them they are afl owned they are owned by the afl yeah so the giants tried which is the team my husband used to play for when he first started and an american tried to buy them and they think nope i know so we like have like strict budgets and a lot of pay over like a certain amount of money within the team and stuff like that because it's owned by the afl wow yeah wow okay so what is i'm looking like what does pay look like in the afl like oh like it's obviously still i mean it's good yeah it's like it's still bigger than your average job but like some players like rookies for example in the nfl what do they sign for minimum 800 000 as like a rookie that never takes the field right yeah and then there's our rookie fee is like i think it's like 89 which for a street yeah for america that's like 50 000 which you cannot live in any city comfortably yeah well obviously that's fine for us here like they can just train and work and obviously try and work their way up but i think the average wage is like 500 okay and then there's like two maybe three players from each team on a million yeah and that's like whoa but there's no like four year,$60 million.

37:32Oh no, there is lots of four year, like 10 million, which is like huge for us, but that's still only like what? 6 million for you guys for four years.

37:41Kellie Finlayson:Yeah. Plus America's just so dramatic. I know. But at the same time, I'm like how great you could live for like play for three years and you're set up, you buy two houses and you're done. Set up for life. Yeah. And it does give a lot of the players opportunities to do charity work and donate a lot and be really involved in the community and for their family afford to yeah because they can afford to because they don't have any financial concern yeah completely and like i'm not saying that we're hard done by in any sense of the word like it's it's still an incredible opportunity to like literally if you don't have the means to work as a partner like just to support your husband in that job like you absolutely can yeah but then And some people obviously like the early starting out and stuff, there's no way.

38:27You have to be a two-income household.

38:29Kellie Finlayson:Yeah. It's crazy. That is crazy. It's crazy that the AFL owns everything. Like I can't even imagine the NFL owning everything. No, well, they've all got like their owners or their presidents and all of that stuff. Yeah. It is different in that sense completely. Like we have AFL players that get delisted, which is like their career cut, I guess. I don't know how you would say it in the NFL, but they get delisted from their team. And then they go over and they go to college and they get paid more money to be kicker at college in US than a professional athlete here. Yeah. Like genuinely like double the amount just to go to school.

39:07Kellie Finlayson:Right. Right. Yeah. Like NIL deals are so big in American college. It's wild. It's, it's literally wild. I'm like, that is fantastic. Cause obviously that's how they get people to go to their schools to then make their schools win. And that's how they get more people going to the school. I get it, but it's crazy. I want to thank our sponsors over at Cusos. They have so many good flavors. If you haven't heard about Cusocuts yet, they are a seasoning and sauces company. I did check and they do ship to Australia. So if you are looking for a new seasoning blend, you can head to Cusocuts.com slash the game.

39:48Kellie Finlayson:One thing that I love about Cusos is that they're a creative brand. They're not just some, this is your Italian seasoning and this is your blank seasoning. Everything in their lineup is curated to perfection. So let me just tell you a little bit about the names and some of my favorite seasonings from them. So they have dirt, they have Cajun explosion, lemon pepper, maple bourbon, cowboy butter, dust, gravel, hot honey. And with names like those, doesn't that just make you want to cook a little bit more? I am going to be moving here shortly and knowing that I can make food that is flavorful and delicious with really honestly minimal effort is what I need right now.

40:35Kellie Finlayson:I don't need to be thinking about cooking crazy meals. I just want something healthy and delicious that I know I can whip up quickly. And Kuso's helps me do that. So if you want 10 % off your order, head to kusocuts.com slash the game or type in code the game, no spaces at checkout. Again, if you are from Australia, they do ship, but for a fee. So just make sure you're prepared for that at checkout. Let's get back into the episode of Kelly. Okay. So Jeremy, your husband played for poor Adelaide for the last four years and then was delisted in 2025. five did you know that he was getting oh yeah okay yeah it's yeah so yeah there's a lot of change up in the like foundation of the club like the coaches the coaching staff their coach left and stuff like that they had a really bad year and given that his age he was an easy one to just let go of I guess because yeah like he's like I said three years is the average so like anything over five six years is incredible he played for 12 so like he had a great career he was okay but right yeah we knew from about halfway through the year when the coaches were changing over they was it wasn't going to happen at that club and we had conversations with other clubs but it just wasn't worth it for us like we're so set here we didn't want to move again yeah yeah it's not like the NFL where you're going for like a million dollars minimum if it was that absolutely get me there but like it's just not worth it when it comes down to it like I've got a really established job here.

42:07Right. Right.

42:08Kellie Finlayson:Okay. So he, when did he start playing? Cause you guys met at 21. Yeah. So he joined the academy at 16. So he got put into a college essentially, but for high school, like a private school in Sydney, cause he's from the country. So like a five hour drive from where he was from and did his high school there so that he could train with the coaches that he would then eventually play for and got drafted at 18. yeah wow and now he's he's 30 in like three weeks a week two weeks yeah oh happy birthday yeah and you just had a birthday too I did yes I just turned 30 so he's two two months exactly younger than me that's cute honestly yeah I love that and you guys have a daughter together Sophia who's four yes she's four she has about 14 personalities

42:58she's great yeah she might be the youngest ecc to ever happen yeah go look at kelly's instagram and look for her daughter doing dancing with palms it's delicious honestly honestly like i feel like i i don't even know her and i was like this is so cute yeah like i don't even i don't like have any I'm not like on Instagram or anything like that. And I was like, this is so cute. I can't even handle it. Yeah. And then when the peer leader started commenting, I was like, you have made it sis. You have made it. Thank you. Oh, dying. Did you tell her? Yeah, of course. I'm like, you haven't made mommy's dreams come true.

43:41Keep going, do more fun stuff. Get recognized. Yeah. Yeah. You're like, you're going to be a star. Yeah. She tells everyone she's going to be a cheerleader when she grows up. I'm like, great. So we're moving to America. Can't wait. What college are you going to go to? Can't wait. If you move to America, I'm going to send you like a box of merch right for when you arrive. All the teams. Yeah. I'll give you something from every team so you can pick which jersey you like the best. Yeah. She'll go on colors. Yeah. Yeah. There's actually, have you seen Mary Crippen from NFL elementary? No.

44:19Kellie Finlayson:Okay. So she's a teacher in Miami, Florida. We interviewed her a couple of weeks ago and she has created basically NFL curriculum for her third graders. So on the first day of school, every kid in her class drafts the team and then they follow the NFL through the season. That's so fun. And she builds her assignments around it. Yes. Yep. Yeah. And she has like, yeah, like lessons. And we had a game at the beginning of the season where two players spit on each other and she's like, this is dramatic. But, and she like did a lesson about it, about who got in trouble and how to treat people and how to react after.

44:59Kellie Finlayson:And like, yeah. And then she'll talk about like the quarterbacks and how some quarterbacks like Brock Purdy was the last we call Mr. Irrelevant who's the last drafted player in the NFL and Brock Purdy is like now a top quarterback and has been a quarterback for a very long time and yeah she's fabulous and then all of her kids the teams will like send them stuff so she's like the hero yes yeah and and yeah like the kids have gotten invited to games like Baker Mayfield, the quarterback for doing this. No, are you a teacher? Yeah. I'm a teacher by train. You're a teacher. Yeah. I haven't taught for a little while.

45:37I just relief teach like temporary teach. I don't know what they call it over there, but I just like substitute. Yeah. So I just like substitute while when my daughter's at school or if she's in care or whatever, if my husband's home, I substitute. Yeah.

45:48Kellie Finlayson:Wait, how did I not find this in my research? I haven't taught for a really long time. Okay. Okay. I was like, I feel like I researched like, yeah, I've subbed, but I haven't taught since I was pregnant with my daughter because that was in COVID. Okay. Yeah. I'll send you, I'll send you Mary's stuff. She's amazing. And we did do an interview with her so you can like listen to it. She's so fabulous and she's like doing amazing things for like the NFL and kids and, and, and. Yeah. Okay. So speaking of stories, I would love to talk a little bit about your personal story. So four years ago you were diagnosed with stage four cancer.

46:24Yes. Right.

46:25Kellie Finlayson:three months after your daughter was born. So can you tell us a little bit about where you were in life and kind of how that diagnosis came up and how it kind of changed where you were? Yep. So in terms of footy, which is kind of relevant in this part, we had a trade from Sydney to Adelaide, which is like from his team that he was at and to the team that he finished in to be closer to family because obviously we knew I was pregnant and then I had my little girl we moved just a few weeks later she was three weeks old on her first flight back here home to South Australia to be closer to my family because obviously I needed that support because I assumed that you know we're going to be pretty high intense with Jeremy's work and he wouldn't be able to help all that much especially going into pre-season and then obviously I also assumed that I'd have like three kids by now so like I'd need family help all the time and I just always dreamed of my mum being so involved in yeah in in that part of things so we moved home to be closer to family and like thank god we did because I think two weeks after we'd moved to Adelaide into our house that we were going to be in while he played I was showing him all around Adelaide because I actually went to school here all the like the hills all the wineries all the beaches all these places that I'd grown up knowing and loving and there's like a bit of a joke here in Australia that there's nothing to do in South Australia you don't visit I'm actually visiting family sort of thing like I don't know what the comparison would be over there like I don't know what state that would be but there's just you just don't go there unless you're visiting family and I was like I guess trying to prove that that wasn't the case and it's not it's such a beautiful city like you do have to drive like 30 minutes out of the out of the city to like get to those places but like in Sydney where we used to live which lots of people visit mind you because of the opera house and the bridge um 30 minutes is like around the corner because of how much traffic there is anyway so we were doing these drives everywhere and we had a obviously well at the time about an eight week old when it first started an eight week old in the back seat so obviously quite an inconvenience when you're driving long distances like she might wake up she might need to be fed whatever it may be and I was more of an inconvenience to him than she was because of the frequency that we were pulling over to petrol stations gas stations to use the bathroom because I always felt like I needed to go to the toilet like the consistent feeling of needing to go to the toilet was just like wild.

48:49I never actually needed to go, which also kind of was annoying, but we were pulling over frequently to use the toilet to the point that four weeks later, so about a month of these road trips later, he was, he thought he was being funny. He made a joke. I didn't find it all that funny at the time. It's hilarious now. And also quite eye opening in a way that like someone else had to bring it to my attention because as females, we do not prioritize ourself or our health anywhere near enough. He made a joke about needing a portaloo, which is like a toilet on a trailer for me to sit on while we drove to each of the, I don't know, places that we were going and that we got there in the time that the nab men said that we would, because he thought that was hilarious.

49:30Anyway, wasn't funny at the time. Yeah. You're like, this is embarrassing. Like I'm already miserable and now you're making fun of me. And like, I'm in pain. I'm postpartum. Like I've never experienced this before, but nothing to compare it to like postpartum sucked for me. Loved that little girl more than anything actually loved breastfeeding which most people hate like I was having the time of my life in that in sense of that but like everything inside I was like my insides are broken and then yeah I didn't talk to him for a couple of days after that like I was really quite pissed but I did book in with a GP and it was the first time in seven years I'd been seeing GPs and naturopaths for seven years but it was the first time in seven years that someone took me seriously and booked me for a colonoscopy two days later I had a colonoscopy and within a week of that I was having a stoma fit that's how fast it moves so I was having my bowels stitched to my stomach as a bypass because I was about to get sepsis because I was having like full blockages wow yeah it moved so quickly literally from the 18th of November to the 27th you're like I thought you

50:30Kellie Finlayson:were just gonna give me a laxative or Advil or tell me that I needed yeah tell me that I needed to like change my diet like FODMAP or whatever it may have been but yeah yeah it was crazy so you are getting the bypass done we make it through that and then what what is the steps moving forward from there are you just at this point all the way in going back to the doctor opt-in yeah so I basically lived at the hospital for close to eight months which obviously with three-month-old like I missed her first year of life essentially like I'm very grateful that my mum kind of stood in and was her mum for those eight months like she left her job she moved over here she moved in and she was it was fantastic like couldn't do enough for her to thank her in that sense but now they're also like best friends so like I think that she loves that that's happened in that in a sense like genuinely like joint at the hip which is so cute but yeah so I had the colonoscopy was told that that's what cancer looked like the next day I saw a surgeon like I said a week later I was having my first surgery and then on my 26th birthday I had my first dose of chemotherapy and radio therapy which was like happy birthday but also they gave me a cake so I was like oh that's so nice I never got a cake again um your expectations were so high at that point you're like this place is great and then you're like where's the candy where's the cake like hello I was like well so I get cake for the first day but never on no other birthdays.

52:01No, but I ended up having a great surgeon. He had really good bedside manner and knew kind of the person that I was really quickly, which thank God, because honestly, he didn't give me a prognosis, which is, I guess, like the timeline of what he expected or statistics or whatever it may have been. He gave me my diagnosis, obviously being stage four colorectal cancer, but never the prognosis because he knew that I was a really competitive person. So if he'd given me that, I would have been competitive to live to that essentially. And that's obviously no good for anyone because, you know, it's been three years since I was supposed to die.

52:32So, yeah, if you'd given me that, I probably would have.

52:36Kellie Finlayson:Yeah. Wow. That's. I feel like that's so special that you also didn't feel the need to push for it. I didn't know it was a thing. Honestly, sometimes ignorance is bliss, though, because. Completely. if you would have maybe asked right and then you have this day in your mind yeah versus just like okay this is how we're gonna treat it and like everybody knows what stage four it means yeah there's no stage five yep yeah and so what are like a blessing in disguise that you didn't have a date to kind of completely yeah i'm like genuinely so like so lucky that he understood me so quickly he also had a like an assistant nurse who was an oncology nurse and now moved into being his assistant that was really good at explaining everything to me like unfortunately for her she I she gave me her phone number so we're still like if ever ever I have a problem like just yesterday I sent her a photo I'm like is this normal like I just had that relationship with her now which is so nice like she was at my 30th birthday like she genuinely saved my life like essentially right but yeah like the team that he has around him I was just so lucky.

53:50Kellie Finlayson:It makes such a difference to have doctors who are genuinely invested in who you are like interpersonally and not just what you have going on. Just not a number. Right. In the US, we have a huge problem with that. And like I had a doctor a couple of years ago and it was, he was a naturopath and I'd gone in because I'd been having reoccurring symptoms and no doctor could help me. and he was going to change something in my diet. But before he did that, he asked me if I had ever had an eating disorder. And I remember walking out, I made an Instagram story about it. And I was like, even something that small, I was like that.

54:31Kellie Finlayson:I felt so seen. And I was like, actually, yes, I did used to have an eating disorder. Thank you for asking. And then I felt so much safer overall to like even move forward with him. And so I think like, it's just a testament to your doctor and probably the hospital and practice that you were at in Australia. Do you, do you guys have the same kind of issue with us where you're just a number and this seems to be like a relatively special kind of doctor? Yeah. So I had a pretty shitty experience with my first oncologist. Actually, I was genuinely a number. Like I had a number next to my name and like, I got told basically after a year of treatment that, you know, it wasn't getting any better.

55:10Palliative care was my only option, which if you know what palliative caries it means you know take morphine and get comfortable and I was like I have not even one year old like that is hilarious essentially and like I I understood the comments in terms of like I saw the scans like I knew how bad they were but also like I knew I had an option to just get another opinion and like three years later I'm still here kicking with that same like the next oncologist so like I did have a bad experience in terms of that but at the same time being a private health patient I feel like is a blessing like it's an expense but like in my case it's the best expense I've ever had like the the investment that I made in my health and that my parents made as well because like I was already on health care prior to this it like it's a blessing because I know that in the public system it's a lot harder to be seen it's a lot harder to have a bed available like they're busy and if you're not life or death essentially you just kicked to the curb and like you don't know your life or death until you get the diagnosis.

56:13But getting that diagnosis is so hard.

56:16Kellie Finlayson:Right. And exhausting to advocate for yourself over and over and over. You know, like you mentioned women, we put it aside, especially parents, especially moms, like you have so much other things and another person to worry about that you're not thinking like, I need to go get this checked. And then sometimes you do and they're like, you're fine. yeah and I had seven years of being told you're too young you're too fit you're too healthy like I was a marathon runner I genuinely had and I've got the words carved into my brain I'm not sure that they would be carved in there had I not been diagnosed but given this the situation like I can remember so clearly I had a test like a stool test and I took it back I could see physical blood and it's usually microscopic and he genuinely looked me in the eye and said you're too young fit and healthy he's like you probably wipe too hard I was like cool anyway then COVID happened so like I had a colonoscopy booked it was postponed indefinitely and then yeah two years later I got diagnosed and it was the worst stage wow yeah but I had seven years of that back to back to back like pushed away from like out of breath you probably got COVID like stomach aches you're pregnant like there was so many things just I was like I know but this can't be normal like I no friends have ever told me that it hurts this bad yeah you're like I know a lot of women who have been pregnant I'm pretty sure this is not okay I'm like I don't remember bleeding being one of the like symptoms of pregnancy but sure especially in your poop like yeah in my toilet I know but like on the toilet paper so it was in the toilet I'm like I could be bleeding I could be my scarring I don't know like but no idea I just go get a scan baby's healthy okay no worries It didn't happen for another couple of weeks, but yeah, it was, it was wild.

58:01Kellie Finlayson:Right. Oh my goodness. Wow. Well, I'm so glad that you found, yeah, like what a blessing to found an oncologist and to be, you know, yeah, kicking now and, and doing so well. And you've really taken your experience, this really hard and sad situation and kind of 180'd it for, you know, the better. Yeah. I've given it purpose for sure. I feel like if I'm going to have this horrible thing like that I have to deal with regardless like I might as well give it purpose and like kind of hope that no one else has to walk in my shoes and if they do at least like obviously it's a scary place to be and like me talking about it is kind of fear-mongering in a way but at the same time like if something were to happen if you were to get a diagnosis at least you know that like I'm traveling to America to go to a football game like I'm talking on podcasts like I'm still doing so much life with the worst diagnosis that you can get essentially.

58:57Kellie Finlayson:Right. Right. Yeah. So you have written that aging is a privilege and I saw your post about your 30th birthday and how you thought you would feel and how are you feeling at 30 overcoming everything that you have overcome Um, and yeah, like being in your thirties now and like managing, you know, your current health status. Yeah. So I got ID'd the other day. So I feel like I'm still 17, which is great. Um, because obviously in Australia it's 18 to be illegal to drink, not 21. So that means that I'm a teenager. So I'm a teen mom. No, I genuinely thought that, you know, hitting 30 was like this big time shift.

59:43and I always get told that 30s are better than 20s and I think that that's because that's normally when people start families but I'd already done that part of life like I'd already done the starting of the family and obviously going through all of the grief of not being able to grow the family and all of that so now I feel like my 30s have been completely focused on me which is so nice because you know obviously in my teen years like I was very able to be very selfish with my time and what I was doing and now that my daughter's like kindy and like soon to be school like I want so much more time in my day to like do things that I have I'm passionate for and like sign up for things that I otherwise wouldn't have been able to like I also don't have this 12 weeks that I'm living to because I genuinely did used to live like scan to scan and that's how I kind of like got through my year and like don't get me wrong I still have 12 weekly scans but I'm no longer like afraid of what that scan is going to tell me because like I kind of already know within myself if something's wrong I get that seen through really quickly if that makes sense so I feel like now I'm living like year by year rather than 12 weekly blocks and that's such a blessing like that's something that we've always taken for granted and like I'm not saying that that's a bad thing like it's a good thing that we're able to like do those five-year plans I wouldn't have even thought that that to be possible three years ago but now I'm like yeah planning at least a year in advance which is so nice to be able to do and like you know I've already got plans for March which otherwise wouldn't have been a thing and like yeah I don't know I'm definitely being a little bit more selfish with my time like also the boundaries that I put in place like in terms of not saying yes to everything and like no is actually a really powerful word and yeah I don't know like I feel like it's just I'm doing me which is so much fun and like I feel like it's rubbing off in terms of like I'm a better mom a better wife better friend and yeah it's been good

1:01:32Kellie Finlayson:yeah I I love that you're seeing the benefit of putting yourself first in your other relationships because we hear on social media or wherever that people say like you have to put your gas mask on first like if you take care of yourself it really will help people around you but it actually does because the happier that you are the better that you can show up for everyone yeah and I also understand like especially being a mom like that's not always a thought that's going to be provoked Like it's always going to be that I'm going to look after my child first. And that's something that I'm always going to have tendencies to do.

1:02:07Like obviously her health is always going to be my priority. But now that like I can kind of see how well she's doing and also knowing that there's other people that care for her and it doesn't always have to be me and I am able to like go to an appointment without having to worry about her. Like someone will look after her for that hour. It's fine sort of thing. Like now that I'm seeing that I don't have to do everything, it's fantastic. And like, I know that looking after yourself is, it does help you pour into other cups, but also like, it's not realistic to assume that everyone's going to do that.

1:02:41Kellie Finlayson:I, it's interesting when you say you've kind of been able to let go of like, I can go to this appointment and like, somebody's going to take care, like their people would take care of my kid. Yeah. I have a lot of friends who struggle to let go of the reins of control with their kids because they're the mom. and I don't know what it feels like to be a mom but I can imagine I have a lot of friends who are moms who have like a lot of mom guilt and things like that do you have any advice for how to kind of let go of those reins of control or how to have the conversation around it with people in your family yeah so I've actually been going through the motions with this especially over the last six to twelve months I feel like we are allowed to want control over how we want our life to look that's absolutely fine but at the same time like in terms of our health if we're not taking our first symptom seriously then we're taking away a hell of a lot more time you know three years down the track from the family that we were trying to look after for that one hour for the appointment that we couldn't go to if we put it into perspective if we don't do anything about it now we're going to have a like a lot more time spent on that issue later but also if we don't take it seriously now we can't be shocked when something comes later I feel like it's really important for us especially as women especially as people that have menstrual cycles because they are something that we're so quick to use as an excuse for whatever's going on with ourselves I feel like if we're not taking that first thing that isn't normal and we know I'm normal we're women we we understand we quite literally pride ourselves on knowing our bodies right if we if we're not taking the thing seriously then we're doing ourselves a disservice but not only ourselves we're doing our family a disservice like if I had have been I took myself really seriously don't get me wrong I definitely looked after myself went to doctors I advocated I did all the things right I was just really unlucky with the people I saw but if we're not doing that if we're not taking that one hour for ourself then we're taking a hell of a lot more time away yeah down the track if I got to see in seven years ago, I might not have had my daughter at the time that I did.

1:04:52But once I did have her, I would have been, you know, able to be a mom for that whole first year. Like it's, yeah, I use myself as an, like, as an example, but at the same time, like, I don't tell people to advocate for myself because I didn't, because I did. Yeah.

1:05:05Kellie Finlayson:It's not like you're looking back and saying, I wish that I would have advocated for myself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It takes a lot of tenacity and perseverance in that situation to, like keep going back and keep trying to figure it out because that can be exhausting in itself. Oh, completely. And like being told that you're young, fit and healthy or being dismissed countless times when you know something's not right, get a second opinion. Like it's an expense. I get that. Healthcare is an expense, but like a$50 appointment is cheaper than like the rest of your life sort of thing. So that's kind of the way to look at it.

1:05:36Yeah. Trust me. Once you want to diagnose. It's hell of a lot more expensive. You're like that$50 copay sounds pretty nice. Yeah. Genuinely. Okay.

1:05:49Kellie Finlayson:How, how have you navigated talking to Sophia about your diagnosis and about the situation that you and your family are in? Because obviously it's very different. She sees her mom go to chemo and a lot of kids at school don't see their parents doing that. So how has it been navigating being a parent and having to have these conversations with your daughter at such a young age? Yeah. So obviously we talked to her very age appropriately. Like she knows that mommy's sick, but she doesn't understand what cancer is. Like someone has actually explained cancer to her before, like an eight year old. So like obviously someone that's on YouTube and sees that sort of thing.

1:06:26And she had nightmares for three days because she didn't want to miss her mommy. But we obviously talked her off that cliff and like, like made her understand that mommy's sick but mommy's got maintenance medication which she knows is chemo she thinks that I have chemo she doesn't think that I have cancer she thinks that I have chemo which is fantastic be naive as long as you possibly can be but like we also talk about like when mommy has a sick day if I have a band-aid on my port so that my my port is like a port of cath that goes straight into my heart it's like my vein that my veins are just shot so if I have a band-aid on that mommy's not well so mommy needs a little bit more space so she looks when she gets home from kindy she'll look to see if I've got a band-aid before she annoys me sort of thing she yeah she's really really resilient like she's quite switched on for her age she like she comes to chemotherapy she thinks that mommy gets a needle in her special button and then we go on with our day which we genuinely do she was too young to see like me being really sick the first couple of years of chemo like I lost my hair and I was I was really unwell she didn't understand that because I wore a wig so that I looked like myself so that she didn't have to be like oh my god because like my husband shaves his beard she's like oh that's not my dad so like obviously losing my hair she'd be like oh what the hell yeah so we definitely protected her a little bit early on but she also like she could read my energy she would like bring her babies in and like pretend to be a mom in front of me when I was like literally fast asleep in bed like or like one eye open like yeah and like there's sometimes I could hear her crying I was like somebody go get her I can't get up but like that was like she was so little she doesn't remember that part of her life she just remembers that you know doctors and hospitals are safe places that make mummies feel better to the point that a friend had her daughter was getting like tonsils removed so like a very minor you know it's still a surgery though they get put under it's a scary thing to put your child through right no one wants to do that but she was like oh it's okay they go to sleep and then the doctors make them better and then you get a sandwich when you wake up and you come home and you have a sleep and you're all better like that's my that was my three-year-old at the time to my adult friend and and i were like yeah it'll be okay thank you gonna get a sandwich and go to sleep it's gonna be all better yeah the doctors are so nice they give you sandwiches they give you icy poles they've got apple juice she's like what do you mean why are you scared yeah she's like it's not a roller coaster she's like there's plenty of things like monsters under the bed to be

1:08:53Kellie Finlayson:freedom hospital not scary no spiders so clean yeah I can't even imagine if we as like societies could begin to look at hospitals again as places of healing and how many people would heal faster and you know what it's nobody's fault even like in terms of like people think that I'm lying about having cancer because of the way that I look. Obviously, there have been some con artists that have like put that in place. But there's like this image of health or image of cancer in particular that the movies portray. You know, people go, they get hooked up, they lose their hair, they lose their sense of self, they lose their identity, they lose, you know, a year of their life.

1:09:38And then they either get better or they die. That's just what we've been taught. So when you see people getting around like myself with, you know, a full head of hair, like, yes, I've lost it, but this is all mine now. So like I'm quite proud of it. Yeah. You know, like my skin isn't pale like it was at one stage, but it's not anymore. Like I've got life in my face. I do all of the things. Like I'm quite a busy person considering like my health status, I guess. But when people see that, they're like, well, that can't possibly, like she must be remission. She either has never had it or like she was dramatic at the time that, you know, she would complain about it or like all of these things.

1:10:13It's what we've been taught in movies. It's what we've been taught in society. You know, obviously technology and like modern medicine has become a lot better but all we know to be true is that you lose your hair you lose yourself and you die or you get better and that's just all we've been taught it's like as a society seeing someone like

1:10:29Kellie Finlayson:myself is like there's no way right what would you say to someone who kind of has that in their head like how is there a way that you'd like to reframe it for them or anything that you would like to like make sure gets across well honestly I think that if someone has that thought process then obviously they've never been touched by it they've never seen someone they love go through it because right you know a lot of people now do manage it quite well especially like treatment plans they're not they're not aimed to absolutely annihilate you anymore like unless it's an aggressive procedure which I did do for you know solid eight months because I wanted it gone unless it's an aggressive treatment plan.

1:11:14Like people are able to manage and have a quality of life. So like, yeah, if they're saying things like that, they've never experienced it for themselves. They've never had someone that they love go through it because they've never had to like be that exposed to it personally, which is great. I'm happy for you sort of thing. Like your life is brilliant. But like for the people that have this image of health, I also, like I said, I don't want them to feel like it's their fault, but like there's so many places of education now, especially online. social media. I know so many people that talk about their health, like someone in America, for example, I think she's in New York, Sydney.

1:11:49I can't remember her last name. She's really quite young and she looks absolutely beautiful. But obviously on her treatment days, she looks like us because that's what we look like. It's just how we feel, right? But the way that she's been able to speak about it and still be this person, still go for runs and stuff. I feel like people online are really trying to direct the narrative in a way that like there is no image of health. like I look like I could still run marathons I could still do all these things I can do most things but have half a lung like it's an invisible disability in a sense and there's so many people living with disabilities invisibly but like just just be kind don't be like be unassuming like it's yeah I don't know it's really hard but we are trying and I feel like there's a few of us online that are trying really hard to shift the narrative into like there is no one image there there's so many people living with different things terminal illnesses as well or like lifelong chronic illnesses that it doesn't have to be our whole personality but we like people to know that we do have an invisible disability to be yeah I don't know how to explain it yeah invisible

1:12:56Kellie Finlayson:disability is there's so many different types of them that you can have and I think just being kind and remembering that you just never know what people are going through genuinely and I think we think about that and we're like oh maybe they're having a bad day or maybe they got dumped you know we're not like we don't always consider that like they could be really going through something and like don't get me wrong like a breakup is still an absolute devastation like I get it but also in a week's time you're going to be okay like there's people living like these chronic chronic illnesses even like chronic fatigue like some people that have chronic fatigue.

1:13:31Oh my goodness. I take my hat off for them getting out of the house. It's crazy. Yeah.

1:13:37Kellie Finlayson:So you have taken your story and put it into a book. Tell me about writing the book. There must be more. And then tagline is finding purpose in the face of the unimaginable. So walk me through writing the book, what people can expect from it and how it felt kind of sharing your journey in such an intimate way? Yeah. So the book came about as like kind of a next step, not in terms of sharing my story, but like I had family members, even my mom and my best friends that just didn't know anything about what I was really going through. So I kind of protected the people that loved me most because I didn't want to put them through any more trauma, which a lot of patients will tell you the same thing.

1:14:21We're really good at like protecting the peace so that we're treated as like a friend or a family member or a daughter or whatever it is rather than someone that's sick especially in those early days and like the book came as like my way of okay I need to tell people so they can understand what I'm really going through and if I don't write the book I'm never going to tell anyone because like it's so much easier not to like honestly writing the book most cathartic process ever was so beautiful I had a wordsmith that really helped me through it, like made it make sense, put it all in line sort of thing.

1:14:55But then the hard part was telling the people that I knew were going to read it. I had no idea what was in it. So like my best friends, my mum, there was so much within that book that only my husband knew essentially, and like maybe a handful of people. And yeah, it was necessary, especially for people that wanted to know more, but I couldn't actually answer individually. People that were going through a similar experience, people that had their parents or their friends going through a similar experience that had so many questions but the only way that I could like get them out was to write them in a long form and I wasn't going to obviously send a documentation to everyone's email like this is how it felt this is what I'm going through this is what you should do so here have a book yeah and like I've lived so many lives like I wrote that book when I was 28 so like I've lived so many lives in 28 years that you know most people write a memoir at 60 65 and like they still don't have enough to fill out this book and like usually it's someone that's been in the limelight for like 60 to 70 years of just like all this chaos but I had enough in four years that I could write about let alone like the stuff that had happened previously to that as well like there's just so much that I had to talk about and like infertility was one of the things that I was really struggling with sharing with friends like I'm in a you know stage of life that all of my friends were in this fertile having babies you know time of life and it was really hard for me when I'd get a photo of a pregnancy stick like pregnancy test like positive and I'd be like cool I just had another failed transfer with my surrogate but nobody knows because I was choosing not to tell anyone so like they didn't know what they were doing to me but at the same time I was like an absolute asshole sometimes I'd like cool I'm still happy you're pregnant like it was I was always so happy for them but at the same time like obviously I was suffering so much at home and like my mental health was really it was the first time my mental health had ever taken a toll and considering what I'd been through obviously that's like a pretty heightened response considering like I literally have stage 4 cancer but the worst part of it was the infertility and not being able to you know grow my family so like yeah there was just so much in there that needed to be spoken but I just didn't know how to say it without it being long form yeah it's just

1:17:12Kellie Finlayson:you having to prep your family and friends, that must've been a very interesting conversation because you're like, I didn't tell you this, not because I don't love you and not because I don't trust you, but because I didn't want you to know how to explain it. Yeah. Like I didn't have the words for it. Yeah. Like I, I would drop my book to people and I'd be like, read chapter three. And then I'd run out the door and I'd be like, okay. And then message me on that. Oh my going to make so much sense I'm like okay good yeah I'm like thank god I'm like one one reply was like why didn't you tell me I'll be like I don't have a reason it's like I just couldn't you're like I you're like I had a lot going on okay yeah yeah it was it was it was tough but it was yeah it was beautiful like the fact that I could have that was probably like five to six people that had no idea and like the fact that they were able to just treat me like me like brilliant.

1:18:11Kellie Finlayson:Right. Cause then you don't have to constantly be talking about it. You can just be their friend. Yeah. No message. Like how are you going this week? Like I didn't need that because yeah, I was acting like me with them, which was really cool. Do you, when I think about someone who has cancer or a terminal illness, a lot of times you hear people say when they see you, I'm so sorry, or how are you doing? What do you wish people would ask or not ask in your situation? I know everybody's a little bit different, but what would you have loved, especially like in your deepest moments for people to have asked or not asked?

1:18:52Yeah. So this is actually a really good question, especially for someone, if someone's listening, that's got like something going on that they've got a friend that's been diagnosed or whatever it may be I have a strong opinion on not asking anything if you can't take on what the answer is going to be like so for example I've had friends be like oh how are you like how was this week and I'd be like oh it was so shit I thought I wasn't gonna wake up and they'll be like I'm like well why did you ask if you can't take that on you know what I'm going through right you know like you know what the reality is if you can't take on like the hard parts don't ask because there's nothing worse and then feeling uncomfortable like oh this person couldn't take that on like why did I share that then you like spiral and then you don't share the next time when you really needed to share and yeah it's it's it's hard like I do have no filter so like confronting stuff does just come out of my mouth and like some people like Kelly shut up I'm like sorry I forgot like wrong crowd wrong place but like for some people like not being heard when they're asked the question is like well now I'm going to just go into my bowl and not speak ever again so that's probably one piece of advice that I have a really strong opinion on and like obviously asking them like you would ask any other person like oh how's your weekend that's okay because now you've opened up the floor for like I'm going to share with you what I feel comfortable sharing not like oh how was how do you feel this week well you don't want to know unless you actually want to know you don't want to know.

1:20:20Right.

1:20:21Kellie Finlayson:Yeah. That's really good advice. I think for anyone also, like if you're talking to your good friend and you ask them how they are and like, you don't have space, then like ask a different question. Yeah. Like ask. Frame it in a different way. How's the weather? Have you been to the beach recently? Like anything else? Yeah. If you've got enough on your plate, don't add more if you can't take it on. Right. Yeah. And we, I think, you know, especially with girlfriends, like we hold space for as many people as we can. And we love when our friends hold space for us. But knowing when you have the capacity to hold space for someone who's struggling is a tool that's probably underused.

1:20:59Okay.

1:20:59Kellie Finlayson:My last question for you, you mentioned that your husband was the only one who knew what was going on. How has this whole journey impacted your relationship? How has he been through it? Because being a partner of someone who's going through this is a whole roller coaster on its own. And he ended his career in the AFL simultaneously to obviously what you're going through now. Yeah. So originally his career was actually the best outlet ever. Like he had his two best career years in the first two years of my diagnosis, which is, was so shocking for so many people, but it was genuinely an outlet and it was just our normal and it gave me something to look forward to going to each weekend and him performing meant that we were happy at home essentially which was brilliant like we didn't bring our problems home we'd like you don't bring your work home I didn't bring hospital home like home was our safe space like we just acted like normal obviously I had days where I couldn't get out of bed but so does everyone yeah in terms of like the part where he really was the only person that knew what I was going through most of the time it's like obviously it broke us it like it built us up it had every emotion you could think of in terms of a relationship especially I mean we were already you know three months postpartum the first two years of having a child is apparently like the most tiptoey two years you'll ever experience with in a marriage so we already had the stress of oh our parenting styles might not let line up but now I kind of had to like forego all of that control and whatever parenting style happened was what was gonna happen like it just we didn't get to have that conversation early we didn't have that until you know a year after my diagnosis and there was more things that we had to work out so we was just like an ever-evolving conversation of how we wanted to be as people how we wanted to be as parents how we wanted to be as partners like it was just so wild but we learned very quickly that conversations and communication were so imperative to having a healthy relationship we'd always been great communicators but we've never had issues so obviously it's a lot easier to communicate when it's not a confrontation right and he's not one for confrontation he'll run away big tall friendly giant right so yeah having like conversations that were quite deep essentially a lot of the last four and a half years were hard to navigate but we've gotten really good at being like well I'm not going to just leave that that annoyed me this happened let's move on it was one of those situations that if we let it stew oh it was just an abruption so it just wasn't worth it but I feel like he's found his own outlets he's never brought the stress of my health home which has been so nice the only conversations and stuff we've ever had to have were once as a team which was really cool.

1:23:55He's also incredibly media trained. So maybe he was talking to me as if I was like holding a microphone twist. I don't know, but I'm going to use it to my benefit. He's like, don't worry. I got this. And you're like, I don't know where you got that from, but I like it. We can do this together. It's not a you and I, it's an us. I'm like, sweet. You're like, that's exactly what I need you to say. Thank you. And I know you mean it. So let's go. Oh my goodness. Wow. Well, thank you so much for... Thanks for having me, honestly. Thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for teaching us about the AFL.

1:24:31There will be... How far away is the NFL game that's going on this year? Oh, where is it? It's in Melbourne. So it's like an eight hour drive, 45 minute flight.

1:24:40Kellie Finlayson:Yeah. Do you think you're going to go? If I can get tickets to it. Yeah. It's already crazy fans around it. Yeah. okay i need to make sure i need the la ram so to reach out thank you yeah if you're listening stand

1:25:01yeah yeah they flew me all the way to dallas surely all you have to do is email them right you could have a ticket tomorrow i'm sure well hopefully i'll take my husband this time yeah yeah and your daughter yes so cute oh my

1:25:17Kellie Finlayson:hopefully I'll be there as well I'll let you know um tell people where they can find you where they can find your book where they can find your symptom tracker yeah so obviously this is a very predominantly American market on this podcast so Amazon is probably your best bet it actually has been restocking lately because it was sold out for a long time which is great for me but not great for everyone else yeah so Amazon for the book on socials I'm just Kelly Finlayson underscore on everything. Yeah. I think we'll leave them in the show notes, I guess. Yeah. Well, yeah, we'll leave it in the show notes.

1:25:49Because my name is quite tricky to spell.

1:25:52Kellie Finlayson:Yeah. Yeah. So you can spell it. It'll be linked. You can just click the button. Brilliant. Even better. Well, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for having me. Thanks for listening to another episode of The Game. If there is a guest you would love for me to interview or have on the show, please make sure to DM me on Instagram at The Game, the podcast, or at HeyVictoriaHenderson. If you want to read our newsletter or join our all-girlsubstack chat, you can go to thegamethepodcast.substack.com. Thank you again to Kelly for coming on, sharing your story, sharing your advice, and inspiring us all.

1:26:32Kellie Finlayson:I know that I had a double check on myself of how long has it been since I've gotten things checked? Am I being as conscious as I could be and taking care of myself in the way that I need to the most? So thank you again, Kelly, for coming on to the game. We'll have some more great interviews coming up for you guys soon. Love you. Bye.