A rabbi and an imam reflect on antisemitism and Islamophobia

0:00Omar Suleiman:Support for Here and Now Anytime comes from MathWorks, creator of MATLAB and Simulink software, to design and develop engineered systems, accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science. Learn more at mathworks.com.

0:16Andy Green:WBOR Podcasts, Boston. For most of my congregation, it is a comfort because people are fearful about gathering as Jews when there is not sufficient security. We're not just being told we don't belong anymore. Our mocks are being attacked and we have ICE vehicles targeting our community at an alarming rate.

0:39Omar Suleiman:Jews and Muslims in America feel like they're under siege from threats of anti-Semitic and Islamophobic violence. It's Friday, April 24th, and this is Here and Now anytime from NPR and WBUR. I'm Chris Bentley.

1:01Omar Suleiman:Years of war in the Middle East have fueled hate around the world, from the Hamas attacks on Israelis in October 2023, and Israel's subsequent devastation of Gaza, to Israel's ongoing invasion of Lebanon and its joint war with the U.S. against Iran. The constant parade of deadly conflicts around the region has spilled over into violence against Jews and Muslims who have nothing to do with the wars. In a few minutes, we'll hear from an imam in Texas about a new surge in Islamophobia, inflamed by the conflict with Iran and egged on by American congressmen. But first, a rabbi in Arizona says armed guards have become the norm at his synagogue.

1:50Omar Suleiman:It's a sadly familiar state of affairs for leaders of many Jewish congregations. Last week, Tel Aviv University released its annual anti-Semitism report, which found cases of severe violence against Jews broke records in 2025. Outside the Middle East, they saw an increase in assaults on Jews and counted 20 Jews killed in what they described as anti-Semitic attacks last year, a record high. That number includes the massacre at a Hanukkah celebration on Bandai Beach in Australia in what was that country's worst mass shooting in nearly three decades. But that report laid some blame on the government of Israel.

2:29Omar Suleiman:Its authors said, quote, Israeli politicians at the highest levels steadily expanded the scope of the term anti-Semitism, including through cynical and hasty declarations, drained it of meaning, and damaged the struggle against Jew hatred. End quote. In American synagogues, the fear is real. Peter O'Dowd met Rabbi Andy Green near Ortzion Synagogue in Scottsdale, Arizona earlier this month. The rabbi told him the threat of violence is always on his mind.

3:01Andy Green:It's something I think about constantly. I work in a Jewish space. I visit other Jewish spaces. We dedicate a huge amount of our budget and our resources to ensuring the safety of our events, worship, and programming. And that's true not only for this community, but for Jewish communities all around the world. We look at the recent incident in Michigan where the largest synagogue in the country was attacked. And it's only because of the security infrastructure that they had in place that it wasn't a terrible massacre that it could have been.

3:41Omar Suleiman:So what can you tell me about the security that you've invested in here at your synagogue?

3:46Andy Green:Whenever we have significant gatherings at the synagogue, we always have an armed presence. But I'd prefer not to comment about all of the details of that precisely because those that would seek to harm us, knowing about everything we've done, which is significant, we don't want them to be looking for any vulnerabilities. Understandable. What does it look like compared to, say, 10 years ago? It's a big difference. We spend at least five times as much annually on security expenses as we did then. Whenever we have services at the synagogue, we have multiple officers who are deployed and in uniform that are armed guards protecting us to enable us to worship our God.

4:31How does that affect worshiping your God? This holy moment, there's armed guards in the building.

4:38Andy Green:When I've been invited to colleagues, to peers, other clergy from other faith traditions, one of the things I always notice is the way in which a space is able to be welcoming and open because there is not that same sincere fear. I think that for most of my congregation, not only has this become a norm that's expected, but also it is a comfort because people are fearful about gathering as Jews when there is not sufficient security. I'll share with you, my son was with me in Israel for the very first time last summer, and we were touring in a particular area in a city called Sfat, which is in the Galilee region.

5:25Andy Green:congregation and our guide was talking about how in the old city of Tzvat there are a number of families. And he says, based on this number of families, how many congregations do you think are here? And my kids, knowing the size of my congregation, do some quick math. Well, there's 600 families at my congregation. There's about 1 ,200 families in this community. Maybe there's two synagogues. To which our guide said, would you believe there's more than 50? To which my son says, wow, that's a lot of guards. And it reflects the fact that even for our youngest, the security infrastructure that is part of Jewish life in America is something that they have internalized, that they expect.

6:07Andy Green:And it took a minute, both for our guide in Israel, where there's not the same security concerns, to understand what it was that my son was saying. Has your family or yourself been a victim of any hate crimes? Absolutely. I was the target of a credible death threat just a month after the October 7th massacre. I got an email from a person who expressed that they believed that Jews are in control of everything, that based on what they saw in the Middle East, that Jews are in control of the courts, that Jews are in control of the media, that Jews are in control of everything. And this person themselves, the email to me had a case number and said, Rabbi, please arrange for your servant and the name of the judge in a particular case that this person was implicated in to dismiss this claim against me.

7:01Andy Green:Of course, I had no relationship to this in any way and have no superjudicial power. Jews do not secretly pull the strings behind. It's an anti-Semitic conspiracy that was developed hundreds of years ago. But this person genuinely believed this. And they said, and if you don't do this by midnight tonight, I will murder you and every other Jew that I can find. And fortunately, thanks to partnership with the FBI and the sheriff's department and the local police force, I'm safe. What's the solution to all this hate?

7:38Andy Green:I wish there was an easy answer. We sometimes say education is a solution, but education is only a solution when people genuinely want to learn. What's the solution? The solution to anti-Semitism is a solution not to be solved by Jews, but by anti-Semites. It's a solution to be solved by those who don't know Jews and who don't know Israel and who have just awful judgments and think the worst of me to come meet me. but I won't blame myself for their hatred of me. Rabbi Andy Green, thank you so much for your time. Appreciate you, Peter. Thank you.

8:31Omar Suleiman:We're going to take a short break and hear from an imam in Texas in just a minute.

8:40Omar Suleiman:This message comes from NPR sponsor CFP, certified financial planner professionals committed to acting in their clients' best interests. Learn more at letsmakeaplan.org. This message comes from Warby Parker, prescription eyewear that's expertly crafted and unexpectedly affordable. Glasses designed in-house from premium materials starting at just$95, including prescription lenses. Stop by a Warby Parker store near you. Many Muslim American leaders say they too have seen a rise in bigotry. That includes Imam Omar Suleiman. He's the founder and president of Yaqin Institute for Islamic Research outside Dallas.

9:21Omar Suleiman:Here's his conversation with David Folkenflik.

9:23Andy Green:So you're in Texas. That's a state that has one of the highest populations of Muslims in the country. It's also home to some prominent public officials who are outspoken about their rejection of what they claim Islam represents. How common is the presence of anti-Muslim rhetoric or even physical attacks on any given day? Well, Texas is the center of Islamophobia in the United States. It has been for some time now. And that's because whether you're looking at state officials or you're looking at pockets of intense hatred towards Muslims, you're always seeing the most violent and most obvious manifestations of Islamophobia in the country here in Texas.

10:03Andy Green:So it's very pronounced. Prior to COVID, we had regular armed protests in front of our mosques. So you got people with ARs standing in front of mosques talking about how they want to see Muslims killed. We had three mosques attacked in one night in Austin just, you know, this past year. Now you're seeing all of these acts that are being passed, specific targeting of mosques and communities. So it's pretty obvious and pronounced here. You mentioned people presenting proposed laws. A congressman from Texas, Chip Roy, introduced what he called the Mamdani Act, that obviously a reference to New York's new mayor, Zoran Mamdani.

10:42Andy Green:But nonetheless, the bill's an acronym for the Measures Against Marxism's Dangerous Adherence and Noxious Islamists Act, which basically proposed denaturalizing and deporting socialists, communists, and Islamists. You know, what does that represent for Muslim people in Texas and beyond? Well, we're not just being told we don't belong anymore. Our mocks are being attacked and we're being told that our mosques don't belong. And, you know, we have ICE vehicles picking up Muslim leaders and targeting our community. at an alarming rate. When I went to visit the Prairieland Detention Center, where you had several members of my community being picked up, in the middle of nowhere in Prairieland, Texas, there's this huge billboard that says, ban Sharia law.

11:26Andy Green:And so the fact that politicians are finding it convenient and rewarding to them politically, even in the middle of nowhere in Texas, to talk about Sharia law when there are clearly other things that are going on, it's basically the political manifestation of hateful rhetoric that you thought you would only see in extreme right-wing media, but now being carried out by every arm of the government, federal, state, and local. And in Texas, unfortunately, we're really getting the brunt of that. And Sharia law, the invocation of that by Islam's critics is sort of the claim that Muslim Americans want to institute a sort of severe form of religious law throughout American society in a way that we have not seen, right?

12:13Andy Green:Yeah, so we're no longer a security threat, we're a civilizational threat, right? It used to be after 9-11 that we would watch the news nervously every single time there was an attack. And if there are 350 mass shootings in America, you just hope that not a single one of them is done by a Muslim because it's always what are Muslims now going to do? Now it's just who Muslims actually are is a threat. It's not even collective guilt anymore. It's just collective existence being treated like a threat, unfortunately, because now it's turned to the Islamification of America. And when a sitting congressman, of course, from Texas, like Andy O can say that Muslims don't belong, or Randy Fine out of Florida comparing Muslims to dogs and saying that we should destroy them before they destroy us, We're now a civilizational threat.

13:01Andy Green:So just by being here, we're a threat now. And what do you tell members of your congregation in how to handle this stuff? So this is where the pastoral side has to come in. I'm telling my congregation to be strong, to be resilient, to utilize their skill sets, to come together and to not just fight for themselves, but to fight for other people as well. So I want this to be a moment of resilience, not a moment of survival. Post-911, I think that our community was in a different place. It was about putting your heads down and try not to find yourself in a situation where you can be harmed. Now it's how do you actively participate in the removal of harm in your society and in your world?

13:43Andy Green:Because everything that you're facing, someone else is facing in some manifestation. And it's important for us to rise to the moment because our entire world and our country is truly at a dangerous crossroads right now. Obviously, anti-Semitism has also been on the rise. How, from your perspective, does the rise of one affect the other? I think that it's important to look at the way that incidents are being reported and to make sure that we're operating with the right data sets, that we're operating with the right definitions, because they do actually affect one another. You know, according to the broad definition of anti-Semitism by the IHRA, which is deeply problematic because it conflates criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism.

14:26Andy Green:Well, that actually directly feeds Islamophobia, too. Anti-Semitism is very real. Islamophobia is very real. We have to make sure that we are insisting on everyone's safety here and abroad. And so whether it's a mosque here or a mosque in Gaza or a synagogue in Detroit, we need to make sure that we're consistent with everything being protected and that we are ushering in not just a safer America, but a safer world. I've been speaking with Imam Omar Suleiman. Imam, thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate you.

15:08Omar Suleiman:Let's take a short break and we'll be right back.

15:15Omar Suleiman:This message comes from Schwab. Investing with Schwab is like spending a Saturday at the farmer's market. You can fill your reusable tote bag with a bit of everything. Maybe you go for some free range self-directed investing or pick up a few farm fresh trades while you peruse. You can even

15:47Omar Suleiman:Well, both the rabbi and the imam told us they empathize with one another and called for people to come together in peace and understanding. It's a hopeful note for a sad situation, and it reminded me of another conversation we had this week. and which you can find right now at hereandnow.org, one place that brings people together is a public library. It so happens to be National Library Week, put on by the nonprofit and nonpartisan American Library Association since 1958. And while there's plenty of controversy around book bans and the like swirling around libraries right now, our next guest says they're one of the last third spaces left in society where everyone is welcome.

16:31Omar Suleiman:Michael Threats is the new host of the revival of the beloved children's program Reading Rainbow from Buffalo, Toronto Public Media. He's also known as the Internet's librarian, and Time Magazine named him one of its 100 most influential people last year for encouraging a new generation to embrace early literacy and mental health. He told David Folkenflick he is the library's number one fan. You know what? I believe I am the library's number one fan. I think it's quite a cutthroat competition, but I'm willing to throw down for that title. I think I'm the library's number one fan, mainly because I have a library card from Arthur Reed tattooed on me.

17:12Omar Suleiman:But also because I honestly wouldn't be here without the library. I have many hard days of which the internet is very much aware of. Many days of struggling to stay alive. Many days of anxiety and worry and depression. But I think the library has always been my saving grace. It's always been my refuge. to spend my best friend in the form of Beverly Cleary characters, in Lewis Sackler characters, in Chronicles of Narnia, in Encyclopedia Brown, in Junie B. Jones, in Bud Not Buddy, and so many more, and characters of today like Dogman and Captain Underpants, all the Mo Willems characters, Frog and Toad.

17:49Omar Suleiman:I could go on and on.

17:51Andy Green:God, I got three girls and you're nailing basically all of them there, right? Like you're just hitting one highlight after another. Yes.

17:58Omar Suleiman:Yeah, and that's why. I think it just – I love the library. I love that it saves people's lives. I love that there's something for everybody. The library, if you love books, if you don't, there are special collections, video games, board games, musical instruments, 3D printers, programs, homework help, tax help, lawyer help. I just think the library is the focal center of the community.

18:23Andy Green:You just alluded to your own mental health journey, and you've even recently posted a video on social media that a colleague shared with me in which you talked about a life-changing moment, being officially diagnosed with a form of autism and with ADHD. What fresh light does this cast on some of the young readers who came into your library who may have shared their own emotions and feelings and what they were going through?

18:48Omar Suleiman:Being diagnosed as autistic, being diagnosed as a person with ADHD has been such an awakening to me, honestly. I think I haven't had enough days to really awaken with that thought. I was diagnosed on March 27th. So still addressing those feelings, those questions. But honestly, it's so amazing. I've always felt different. And I think as far as talking to library kids, talking to library grownups, it means so much. I wish I would have known earlier because in my 10 plus year career as a librarian, it would have been so wonderful to be able to tell them that I'm just like them. I think I've always loved addressing the neurodivergent community without knowing who I was.

19:26Omar Suleiman:I've always loved just showing them that they can be who they are at the library. It's okay that they're different, that it makes them wonderful them. And I'm learning more and more about myself each and every day. And honestly, throughout my career as a librarian and also throughout my life, they've been so influential and I've just loved their energy and their enthusiasm I've loved their niche interests and just learning from life through them so to know for a fact that I am just like them is probably the most extraordinary thing I've ever learned about myself

20:07Omar Suleiman:there's lots more to that conversation between michael threats and david fulkenflick including what it's like to step into lavar burton's shoes as the new host of reading rainbow you can listen to that right now at here and now.org

20:25Omar Suleiman:but that'll do it for the show today here and now anytime comes from npr and wbr boston today's stories were produced by peter odoud ashley lock and hafsa kareishi and edited by michael scotto technical direction from caleb green matt reed and andre peralta our theme music is by mike moschetto max liebman and me chris bentley our digital producers are alison hagan and grace Griffin, and here at Now's executive producer is Alan Price. Thanks for listening. We'll be back with you on Monday.

20:57Omar Suleiman:This message comes from Schwab. At Schwab, you can get everything from self-directed investing to full-service wealth management all in one place. No matter your investing goal, life stage, amount to invest, or know-how, you can invest your way with Schwab.