Epstein survivor: ‘We will not stop’

0:05If this was meant to dissuade us from moving forward, it's not going to work. I think that this maybe gave us even more energy to continue fighting for justice. An Epstein survivor speaks out after the Justice Department failed to black out the names of dozens of sexual abuse victims, some of them minors.

0:37It's Tuesday, February 3rd, and this is Here and Now, Anytime from NPR and WBR. I'm Chris Bentley.

0:46Today on the show, Maine's Secretary of State shares concerns about election security after the FBI seized voter records in Fulton County, Georgia. This is ominous and shocking. The states, not the federal government, are in charge of our elections under the Constitution. Also, a Minnesota journalist says she was arrested for covering a protest. We cannot get to a place where we are criminalizing journalists because it is our very documentation and record keeping that allows us to have an objective record of how things transpire.

1:30But first, the latest dump of Epstein files included millions more pages of emails, photos, and other documents uncovered in sex trafficking investigations. The files are not organized, but even an initial scan of what's in there reveals connections to rich and powerful people from Silicon Valley, Wall Street, and multiple governments, elites who in many cases continued to associate with Epstein after his conviction as a sex abuser in 2008. Epstein died in jail in 2019. To date, the only other person prosecuted in connection with his alleged sex trafficking ring is his accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell, who's currently serving a 20-year prison sentence.

2:18President Trump, however, thinks the DOJ should move on. Here he is in the Oval Office yesterday. You know, they released three million pages. It's like this is all they're supposed to be doing. And frankly, the DOJ, I think, should just say, we have other things to do. That's not what Liz Stein thinks. She's an Epstein survivor and an anti-trafficking advocate. Earlier today, she spoke with Scott Tong. You just heard what the president has had to say on this. The DOJ should say we have other things to do. What's your comment on that? It's very concerning. I think that when we're talking about the Epstein case, it's colloquially referred to as the Epstein saga, right?

3:05and when we name it like that we're not putting the focus on what this is. This is a crime and it's a crime of sex trafficking and the Department of Justice exists to investigate and prosecute crimes. Now in a crime where they have admitted that there are between a thousand and twelve hundred victims, this just doesn't make any sense to me. And it really sends a powerful message to survivors everywhere and to victims of crime that if you have a crime perpetrated against you and you expect accountability from our government, you're not going to get it. That's dangerous. We now know that the Justice Department, in its latest release, failed to blackout and protect the names of dozens of Epstein victims.

4:02Some of the people were minors at the time. Let's listen to the deputy attorney general, Todd Blanche. He spoke last night on Fox News. We knew that there would be mistakes. We put that, I said that to the American people on Friday. Everything we did was protect victims. And that's the case today, just like it was on Friday. For the victims out there, Liz, whose names are now public, released against their will, what do you imagine they're going through right now? Well, you know, yesterday afternoon, I found out that I'm one of them, that my information was released in this document. And I can tell you, we have a lot of feelings about this happening.

4:47In my particular case, there is one line that is unredacted that says Stein was a victim of Epstein and Maxwell. Yet my name is not redacted in that sentence. And so the way that this was handled and the way that redactions are rolling out and the exposure of our personal information feels very intentional. It feels threatening to us. And this is really not what we anticipated when we had the Epstein Files Transparency Act passed. Intentional. You think your name and others were put out there unredacted on purpose? I think that we're looking at a large volume of materials, and I understand that there could be mistakes here and there.

5:43But even one instance of having a survivor's name or information unredacted is unacceptable to us. Yeah. But what we have seen over the past few days when we're talking amongst each other is that as we go through these files, we're seeing more and more and more and more exposures. So it doesn't feel like it's an accident. And we're also seeing documents where there should be names of people that are not redacted. And we're seeing redactions there. And you're referring to the men who perpetrated these crimes. Some of their names are actually the ones being blacked out. I mean, you said in our program before you want answers, you want accountability.

6:32Are we learning enough about the men in question? I don't think we're learning anything really about them other than the names of people who could be potentially involved. And I think that one of the things that we really want to see is when these allegations were made, when these tips came in about men, how were they investigated? And what was the resolution to that investigation? Why was there no decision to move forward with any criminal accusations? And I think that we don't have any of that information. We have potential names. We don't have any information about why they're not being charged.

7:19And that's concerning. Yeah. And Liz, can I just ask you how you're feeling as you talk about this? This has been years, decades. You've been out talking publicly about wanting accountability. Does it feel like it's going to come? I will tell you that the past few days have been an interesting mix of rage, sorrow, and really determination. I think that if this was meant to dissuade us from moving forward, it's not going to work. I think that this maybe gave us even more energy to continue fighting for justice. That's Liz Stein, an Epstein survivor and anti-human trafficking advocate. Liz, thank you again for joining us.

8:12Thanks, Scott. We've got more coverage of the Epstein files at npr.org and at hereandnow.org. As we mentioned, there is more to come as reporters dig through millions of files, and because the Justice Department still has not made public all the files that Congress ordered it to release in the Epstein Files Transparency Act last year. Yesterday, Indira Lakshmanan spoke with NPR's Stephen Fowler about the files. Here's part of their conversation. We know that many prominent and powerful men socialized with Epstein planned visits to his private island, according to the latest correspondence that was released.

8:49There was correspondence with Elon Musk, Bill Gates, Richard Branson, with Trump's own Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick. President Trump himself is mentioned at least a thousand times, and some of the allegations are very disturbing. Now, of course, we know that mentions, mentioning someone's name does not prove any wrongdoing, but how do we know that the Justice Department has fully investigated all of these claims? Will we ever know? We won't necessarily know, partly because some of what's been withheld falls under the investigative privilege that the Justice Department is claiming and other things about internal process that they say that they are keeping things redacted.

9:29Within the next two weeks, there is supposed to be another disclosure made to Congress of the redactions made under the law and why they did it. That's supposed to be about 200 ,000 pages worth. But it is important that being mentioned in the files and having these correspondence and relationships and things with Epstein does not mean that there is any sense of wrongdoing or any indication of awareness of wrongdoing with Epstein's various crimes. What do you make of the fact that there's still no prosecution announced here? Well, the release of the files are the result of a political pressure.

10:05The Epstein Files Transparency Act is a law passed by Congress in reaction to the political campaign promise that President Trump made and the backtracking on that process. And so what we have seen mostly is the court of public opinion, more so than the actual court system. But it is worth noting that there was a case against Jeffrey Epstein. Ghislaine Maxwell, his associate, is also being prosecuted and that's involved. So there are examples of the justice system going through this. What we're seeing now is just more the public side of that aftermath. You can hear the rest of that conversation right now at hereandnow.org.

10:52Coming up next, the FBI raid on an elections hub in Fulton County, Georgia last week has officials around the country worried about election integrity. Indira Lakshmanan has that story after the break.

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12:11Here's a clip of the president yesterday on former Deputy FBI Director Dan Bongino's podcast, calling on the Republican Party to seize election duties from the states. These people were brought to our country to vote, and they vote illegally. And the, you know, amazing that the Republicans aren't tougher on it. The Republicans should say, we want to take over, we should take over the voting, the voting in at least many, 15 places. The Republicans ought to nationalize the voting. The president's claim that the election was stolen from him have centered on Georgia. And last week, he sent FBI agents to Fulton County to seize ballots in search of evidence of fraud and irregularities.

12:55In the U.S., states run elections and 50 secretaries of state are at the other end of the Justice Department's requests for voter rolls. Let's bring in Maine Secretary of State Shanna Bellows. Thanks for joining us. Hello, it's my pleasure. So first, what is your reaction to the FBI raid of the Fulton County Election Office last week? This is ominous and shocking. The states, not the federal government, are in charge of our elections under the Constitution. And for the director of the office of the director of national intelligence, the nation's top spy agency, to be handling ballots. Spies have no place in election administration.

13:34And quite frankly, You're referring, of course, to the president sending his director of national intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, which is a sort of oversight role that's above the CIA, above all the intelligence agencies. She was sent down there to Fulton County when it's not typically a job that an intelligence agency would be in charge of. Reportedly, she made a phone call to the president and put him on the phone directly with FBI field agents to whom he spoke. I'm sure you've seen that reporting. What is your reaction to that? It's truly shocking. So when we saw, and I say we, I mean, secretaries of state across the country, Republicans and Democrats saw that the feds were seizing ballots and ballot materials from 2020.

14:21We started talking about how do we safeguard our elections in 2026? How do we prevent federal interference? How do we protect ballots, ballot materials and equipment from seizure? improper, unconstitutional, illegal seizure by the federal government. Well, you're, of course, referring to the 2026 midterm elections. What do you make of the president's call on that podcast yesterday with Dan Bongino to federalize elections and take those powers to administer elections away from the states and away from officials like yourself? Well, my first reaction was, you know, I used to be head of the ACLU of Maine, and we used to hand out pocket constitutions to school kids like Candy.

15:05And I've got to mail him a copy of a pocket constitution because he seems to have misplaced his. Certainly, there is no role for the feds to take over our elections. He didn't mean which states, but Maine and Minnesota have been in his crosshairs. And it's truly, this is rhetoric that's matching a series of ominous actions, not just the seizure of ballots in Fulton County, But of course, the Department of Justice trying to get voter rolls from every state to assemble a national voter database and then conditioning ISIS leaving Minnesota on release of those voter rolls. So we're seeing both alarming rhetoric and deeply concerning actions by the federal government.

15:48And it seems like they fear accountability by the voters in 2026. Tell me how the recent actions have changed how your office is preparing for the upcoming midterm elections. And given all of this fear and confusion around election rolls being seized, ballots being seized, is there something that can be done to restore public trust in elections themselves and their results? Well, I would say we do have public trust in our elections. We see that with high voter turnout. 2024 is extraordinarily high voter participation in our elections all across the country. Minnesota was number one. Maine was number two.

16:28And I will say election officials are the world's best contingency planners. We work every day to prepare for yet another safe and free and secure election. And unfortunately, in 2026, not only are we planning for natural disasters to safeguard against swatting and bomb threats and other physical threats that have arisen in recent years, now we have to make contingency plans for potential federal interference for the specter of armed men roaming our streets, as we saw with ICE, and with potential federal attempts to seize ballots or ballot equipment. What I'm here to say is not in Maine. In Maine, Mainers will run elections by and for Mainers as the Constitution and the law require.

17:12Shanna Bellows is the Secretary of State in Maine. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you.

17:22Coming up, former CNN anchor Don Lemon says a crew of federal agents came to arrest him in L.A. last week, even though he'd already said he would turn himself in. Lemon faces charges related to his coverage of an anti-ice protest at a Minnesota church service a few weeks ago. But Lemon is not the only independent journalist indicted on charges of conspiracy and interfering with worshippers' constitutional rights. More on that after the break.

18:11Two more people have been arrested over a protest at a church in Minnesota last month. Protesters interrupted a service at Cities Church in St. Paul, where an ICE official serves as a pastor. The Trump administration is making the case that the protesters were attacking religious rights. But at least two of the people arrested are independent journalists who say they were just reporting on the protest. Georgia Fort is one of them. She spoke to Scott Tong. Here's a little sound of your film footage of protesters who went into the church service underway.

18:51Now, a grand jury indicted protesters and also named you in the indictments. saying you were part of a group that met at a shopping center together for a briefing in advance of going into the church. What can you tell us about your actions at the church that morning? I was out documenting what was happening as a journalist and wanted to even report both sides. So if you look at my reporting from that day, I have statements from both sides of this story. All the footage that I've captured has been published. It's publicly available and it speaks for itself. Were there any physical altercations?

19:34Was anyone blocked from leaving the church? Well, like anybody who is facing federal charges, there's not a lot that I can say. But everything that I observed as a journalist, I recorded and I published it. We cannot get to a place where we are criminalizing journalists because it is our very documentation and record keeping that allows us to have an objective record of how things transpire. Now, some First Amendment scholars note that a church is private property and protesters cannot go in, as the argument goes, without the permission of the church and speech is no longer protected when people go in during a service.

20:23Did the protesters especially, you know, think about this question before they went in during the service? That would be a great question for the protesters. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you for kind of talking to us. I know there is a case against you and you're still kind of joining us to tell us your side of the story. On the morning you were arrested, you live streamed what happened. Let's listen to a little bit of that. I've talked to my attorney and I'm being advised to go with them, I guess, down to Whipple. And my children are here. They're impacted by this. This is all stemming from the fact that I filmed a protest as a member of the media.

21:11And Georgia, tell us a little bit more what happened during your arrest, what happened to you and after. More than a dozen agents showed up to my home. They put tape over my doorbell camera. They knocked forcefully on the door, waking my children up. As you heard in that clip, you can hear my 17-year-old daughter hysterically crying in the background. and they demanded my arrest. You know, I was able to get my attorney on the call to verify the legitimacy of the arrest warrant, at which time I did surrender myself. But it does not negate the fact that this is a violation of my First Amendment right as a member of the press.

21:56And the trauma and terror that this inflicted on my children. I have three daughters. My seven and eight-year-old, They slept through most of it. However, I did learn later that my eight-year-old did wake up while all of this was happening, but she was so scared that she just laid in the bed and cried. And so even though now I've been released, we are still working with our children to help them recover from this. And you were arrested, detained, and released as this case is ongoing. Do I understand that after you were arrested, some of these federal agents stayed at or right outside your house?

22:37I was arrested at about 625, between 625 and 630. And at 834, I have still even some video footage of my 17-year-old daughter who was terrified. She drives. And so she loaded up her sisters and she was preparing to take them somewhere where they could be safe. And my husband decided to trail them to make sure that they were able to leave safely. The both of them were stopped. They were harassed by federal agents asking them, you know, were they taking my belongings out? But the warrant that was presented to my attorneys was an arrest warrant. It was not a search warrant. The intimidation, especially when you're talking about a seven and eight year old sitting in a car after their mother has been arrested and just how how fearful they were to even have to be stopped and to be questioned.

23:36It is it's unconscionable, honestly. Georgia Fort is an independent journalist in the Twin Cities. Georgia, thanks for taking the time. Thank you, Scott.

24:10Peralta. Our theme music is by Mike Moschetto, Max Liebman, and me, Chris Bentley. Our digital producers are Alison Hagen and Grace Griffin. And Here and Now's executive producer is Alan Price. Thanks for listening. Here and Now Anytime will be back with you tomorrow.