How Israel's wars are reshaping the Democratic Party

0:00Federiga Bindi:Support for Here and Now Anytime comes from MathWorks, creator of MATLAB and Simulink software, to design and develop engineered systems, accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science. Learn more at mathworks.com. WBUR Podcasts, Boston.

0:21Benjamin Oreskes:Well, in these races where it's a left versus a more left candidate, it's one of the defining issues. Israel's wars in the Middle East could sway primary elections in New York. It's Monday, June 22nd, and this is Here and Now, anytime from NPR and WBUR. I'm Chris Bentley.

0:44Benjamin Oreskes:A little later, we'll hear how a war of words between President Trump and Italy's prime minister could rupture the U.S. relationship with Trump's closest European ally. The support for Meloni in this case was unanimous, left and right. Of course, the left also underlined that this is the result of Meloni being subservient to Trump. But first, primary elections continue across the country tomorrow. And lots of eyes are on New York City, where Israel's wars in the Middle East have become a major campaign issue. Representative Dan Goldman of the 10th District is facing a primary challenger in Brad Lander.

1:22Benjamin Oreskes:And Ben Oreskes of The New York Times tells Lisa Mullins it's a test of how the issue might play out across the country. Yeah, it has become this axis or cleaving force in many races, both at the congressional level and even at the state legislative level, where you have candidates with, frankly, pretty similar views on a lot of issues. and the dividing line is their fidelity towards Israel or the interests supporting the country. And by that, I mean AIPAC and groups like AIPAC. So specifically in the Lander race, you have Brad Lander running against Dan Goldman. Brad Lander ran for mayor last year, had been the city controller, a mainstay of New York City politics had been on the city council.

2:05Benjamin Oreskes:And in Dan Goldman, you have someone who won a seat in a very close primary, spent a lot of his own money and has been a longtime supporter of Israel. Both of them are Jewish. And last year, we saw Brad Lander come very close to becoming mayor and forge this very close alliance with the current mayor of New York City, Zoran Mamdani, who has made a lot of noise for his criticisms of Israel. But in this race, which is one where he encouraged, Mamdani encouraged Lander to run, we have seen two men, both of whom are proud Zionists, actually, sort of try to find ways to differentiate each other from one another on this issue.

2:51Federiga Bindi:And are there differences, faint differences? I mean, do they basically have the same line?

2:56Benjamin Oreskes:Yeah, I mean, neither of them is saying, I don't believe that there should be a Jewish state, which again is the sort of most significant red line for a lot of people right now. But unlike his opponent, Brad Lander has not been reluctant to call Israel's war in Gaza a genocide. And in Dan Goldman, someone who's more reluctant to use that term has been critical of the Israeli government led by Benjamin Netanyahu. Both of them have been. And then, you know, as you get deeper into policy, you start to see small differences. At the same time, there is this part of it that is about vibes. And Brad Lander was an enthusiastic supporter of the mayor, who has been very critical of Israel and its prosecution of a war in the aftermath of October 7th and the terrorist attack that occurred in Israel.

3:46Benjamin Oreskes:And Dan Goldman was not someone who's backed the mayor. It was someone who was very resistant to doing that all the way up until election day. And even then he wouldn't back him. And so with that difference, you know, we have seen this coalescing of support behind Lander and all the polling to this point suggests that Lander is winning by a wide margin. So it's an interesting case study in how we're seeing an issue that, you know, obviously excites people, angers them, sort of define a race in one of the most Jewish districts in America, I would add as well. You mentioned several times Zoran Mamdani, the New York City mayor who backs Brad Lander, the candidate.

4:27Benjamin Oreskes:Mamdani has had a tense relationship with parts of the Jewish community. Would you say that he is testing the strength of his political brand as a progressive kingmaker in this race, along with some of the races in New York City where Israel has become such a flashpoint? Yeah, I mean, I think that in this race, the mayor wants to pick a winner. And Brad Lander is someone who was very loyal to him during the primary last year. And I must add that Mamdani looked over him for a job in City Hall, but then was very encouraging of him running for this seat. But more broadly, when you look across the city, a host of state legislative races, Mamdani has taken a heavy hand and become very involved in picking candidates.

5:09Benjamin Oreskes:And so with this, Mamdani is trying to use the political capital that he won and has to sort of grow his allies in Washington, in Albany. And you're right. There is a risk here. It's not because they could lose and there would suddenly be Republicans in these seats, but that he has tied his brand, his style of politics and his worldview to these people. And in some cases, like the case of Lander, we're likely to see him prevail. But in others, like Daryalitza Chevalier in Upper Manhattan against Adriano Espoyot, he might not prevail. And so it will be really interesting on election night or in the days after, as we see the results come in, to kind of do a scoreboard and check in on how his favorite candidates did.

5:55Benjamin Oreskes:And what about the Democratic Party writ large? How do these races paint this larger picture of Israel's wars in the Middle East driving a wedge in the party? Well, in these races where it's a left versus a more left candidate, it's one of the defining issues. And so we are watching foreign policy really dominate the conversation in races that will also sort of affect policy around affordability and many other things. New York Times reporter Ben Oreskes, nice to talk to you. Thank you. Thanks for having me.

6:45Benjamin Oreskes:Coming up next, Trump e un collone. That's a headline from the far-right Italian paper Libero that I probably wouldn't be allowed to repeat in English, reflecting just how much the president angered his counterpart, Georgia Maloney, over the weekend. And dear Lakshmanan has more in just a minute.

7:16Federiga Bindi:Italy's close alliance with the United States is at a breaking point after the country's far-right prime minister said President Trump had made up an unflattering story about her. Trump told the media that Georgia Maloney had begged him for a photo at the G7 summit in France last week and that he only agreed because he felt sorry for her. Maloney retorted that that was a lie, saying, I don't beg and Italy doesn't beg. As a result, Italy's foreign minister canceled a planned trip to the U.S. over the weekend and said he would not attend an upcoming economic conference in Miami. Federica Bindi served as a senior advisor to Italy's then foreign minister, Franco Frattini.

7:56Federiga Bindi:She's now a professor at University of Rome, Tor Vergata, and the University of Colorado, Boulder. Federica, welcome.

8:04Benjamin Oreskes:Thank you. Thank you for having me.

8:05Federiga Bindi:So on Saturday, President Trump doubled down on this claim, writing on Truth Social that Maloney had asked him for a photo in order to improve her poll numbers. Why is Trump throwing a wrench in what had been his one good relationship in Europe? She was the one leader willing to stand up next to him and be seen as his ally.

8:27Benjamin Oreskes:So I think this dates back to the request of the United States to use their own bases in the Italian territory to launch attacks on Iran, which the Italian government refused. So he is upset at the Italian government. And of course, because Maloney is a relatively young woman, you know, it's easy to attack her personally.

8:52Federiga Bindi:Well, I wonder whether there was something of a sexist subtext of Trump's claim that Maloney was begging him for a photo. You mentioned her being a relatively young woman. She's also attractive and she's one of the only women who was at that G7 leadership meeting. meeting. So is that part of it, of Trump trying to single her out as being a young and attractive woman who was interested in being photographed with him?

9:17Benjamin Oreskes:There is absolutely an element of that. I mean, anytime that there is something against Meloni, it's sexist. And Trump in particular is known for not being light on that.

9:31Federiga Bindi:Let me ask you about the reaction in Italy. Tell us what the newspapers are saying and what the politicians are saying. Are they supporting Maloney or are they supporting Trump here?

9:42Benjamin Oreskes:No, the support for Maloney in this case was unanimous, left and right. Of course, the left also underlined that this is the result of Maloney being subservient to Trump all these years. But from the president down to the Communist Party, they all defended her and defended the Italian national interest.

10:02Federiga Bindi:I understand that Deputy Prime Minister Matteo Salvini said on X that whoever attacks Georgia Maloney attacks all of us. So in a way, this could be a unifying moment that actually helps Maloney's poll numbers much more than a photograph with Trump ever would have.

10:19Benjamin Oreskes:Absolutely. I mean, this has boosted Maloney. This is something that Maloney desperately needed because her numbers were down. She is attacked by the far, far right, this new Van Nacci guy. So this was perfect. You also have to consider that in Italy, eight out of 10 Italians cannot stand Trump. So left and right, being insulted by Trump is actually boost to your popularity.

10:47Federiga Bindi:Well, Maloney took office four years ago, Italy's first female prime minister. She has remained closely allied with Trump since then. And she was, in fact, the only EU leader to attend his second inauguration. Do you think this is now going to be a permanent rift in the relationship between Maloney and Trump?

11:07Benjamin Oreskes:So she has tried to do what the late Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi did in its own time with George W. in his own second government, that is positioning himself as the middleman between Europe and the U.S. But of course, this doesn't work with a US president that is mercurial. They change position on everything every minute. So it failed. And the rift is never permanent. In time, it will be mended. The interesting thing that we will have to watch for in the incoming days and months is what Meloni is going to do. Because if Italy stops being the US's strongest allies and move towards the rest of some of the other European countries, then you can really have a big shift in European policies.

12:02I'm talking, for instance, Italy is one of the countries

12:05Benjamin Oreskes:that is blocking the suspension of the EU-Israel agreement. If Italy breaks ranks, that could have enormous consequences on EU policymaking. So this is what we need to watch out. So Trump insulting her, I think it will be snowball against him.

12:25Federiga Bindi:Federica Bindi is a former Italian diplomat who's written numerous books on U.S.-Italian relations. She's a professor at University of Rome, Tor Vergata, and the University of Colorado, Boulder. Federica, thank you so much for joining us.

12:38Benjamin Oreskes:Thank you for having me. Always an honor.

12:54Benjamin Oreskes:Lots more news we're following today over at hereandnow.org, including who's next in line after the resignation of British Prime Minister Keir Starmer and the latest on the negotiations over the war in Iran. The Iranians have agreed to invite IAEA inspectors back into their country. You can find that at hereandnow.org. As well as how soccer players in the World Cup are dealing with dangerous heat and humidity. We're also talking about something that might help you avoid being cringe in your texts. Emoji etiquette. Monica Reardon is a psychology professor who studies digital emotional expression at Chatham University in Pittsburgh.

13:36Benjamin Oreskes:Here's a bit of her conversation with Indira.

13:39Federiga Bindi:People do form impressions of you based on how you use emojis. So especially at the office, using emojis can help you seem more warm, more friendly, more approachable, unless you use them in inappropriate ways in which people start questioning your competence level. Okay, well, let's talk about that because it feels like it could be a minefield. You say that emojis can increase clarity, but it feels like there's not necessarily a universal understanding of meaning when it comes to certain emojis. So talk about how different generations in the same workplace or even in the same family may use the same emojis in different ways.

14:19Federiga Bindi:Oh, absolutely. I agree. There's no real universal meaning for emojis. I think we can agree on some things. The smiling emoji, for example, we should just interpret that as positive emotion. Sometimes it's surprise, sometimes it's happiness, but positive in general. But for any other individual emoji, I think your interpretation depends on a wide range of things. So the relationship between the person who's sending it and the person who's receiving it. Age matters, as you've mentioned. Culture matters. The context of the conversation matters. So as one example, I had a student who sent me a message once saying, I did not use AI to complete this assignment.

15:00Federiga Bindi:And it was followed by a blue baseball cap emoji. And that means when they use that emoji, it means no cap, which, of course, that means they're telling the truth. Now, you wouldn't know this unless you spend a lot of time with that generation and know how they are using emojis in different ways. Okay. Although I would think that no cap should be an X and then a cap, right? Because if you just use the cap, maybe it means you're lying. Yeah. Now we're interpreting too many different things, right? It's sort of, I often think of it as sort of like a slang word. You know, every generation has their own slang.

15:41Federiga Bindi:And so the blue baseball cap emoji is just sort of their slang for no cap. So if there is a cap, then there's no cap. All right. Talk about the thumbs up emoji. I think a lot of people consider it just like, yes, sounds good. Okay. But we were talking about this conversation in our office and some of the younger folks in the workplace said actually a thumbs-up emoji can be passive-aggressive for younger people. Explain that to me. Yes, this is absolutely 100 % true. Younger generations tend to find the thumbs-up emoji somewhat passive-aggressive, and they actually tend to prefer the heart emoji more.

16:19Federiga Bindi:But older generations think the heart emoji is somewhat overkill. It's a little too much for a message. And there's even a bit of a minefield here too, because in Western cultures, a thumbs up emoji is, like you said, a friendly acknowledgement. It's something closer to a lake button. But in other cultures, especially in the Middle Eastern culture, the thumbs up emoji is actually a very rude gesture. It's sort of something equivalent to up yours. So very negative, and you should never use that with someone from Middle Eastern cultures. So the context of the The emoji, obviously, matters a great deal.

16:55Federiga Bindi:And how people interpret them is going to be filtered through their own social world as well. What about the skull emoji, which I have to say my kids taught me means something different from what I would have thought. I thought it would be like dead, you know, like someone is dead if you see the skull. But they explain that it means dead like I'm dying of laughter. Talk about that one. That is absolutely true. I have seen my own son use this. He's 12, and he will use the skull emoji to indicate that something is absolutely hysterically funny. Whereas my generation, I'm in my 40s, would use the laughter with tears of joy emoji instead.

17:37Federiga Bindi:And I would never use the skull emoji for that. So yes, generational differences are absolutely the thing.

17:46Benjamin Oreskes:there is more to that conversation about emoji etiquette with monica reardon of chatham university including the several different interpretations of the peach emoji at hereandnow.org i definitely learned something about the thumbs up emoji from that and i'm going to go over to our work slack right now and send producer ashley lock a 100 with two lines under it That's it for the show today. If you want to give Here and Now Anytime a thumbs up or a 100 with two lines under it emoji, you can do that by giving us a good rating in whatever podcast platform you're listening to us on right now. It takes just a second and it really helps.

18:23Benjamin Oreskes:So thank you. Here and Now Anytime comes from NPR and WDUR Boston. Today's stories were produced by Sam Rifelson and Hafsa Qureshi. Our editors were Mark Navin and Michael Scotto. Technical direction from Matt Reed and Marcel Damiano. Our theme music is by Mike Moschetto, Max Liebman, and me, Chris Bentley. Our digital producers are Alison Hagen and Grace Griffin. And here at now's executive producer is Alan Price. Thanks for listening. We'll be back with you tomorrow.