ICE raids make a 'ghost town' in Kansas

0:00Janeth Vazquez:Support for Here and Now Anytime comes from MathWorks, creator of MATLAB and Simulink software, to design and develop engineered systems, accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science. Learn more at mathworks.com. WBUR Podcasts, Boston. I think it's like a parent who watches their baby through a baby monitor, only to one day, out of nowhere, suddenly, find that that baby monitor has been disconnected. Lawyers for people detained by immigration agents say their clients are being disappeared from the system.

0:51Janeth Vazquez:It's Wednesday, September 30th, and this is Here and Now, anytime from NPR and WVUR. I'm Chris Bentley.

1:00Janeth Vazquez:Today on the show, the mayor of a town in southwest Kansas says immigration raids are sowing fear and chaos.

1:07Michelle Mendez:During the ICE operations, our town just became a ghost town. People were not out and about. The businesses were closed. Employees weren't going to work.

1:17Janeth Vazquez:Also, a milestone in the Middle East, the U.S. military says all its troops have withdrawn from Iraq.

1:24Michelle Mendez:This is much different than the withdrawal from Afghanistan, for me at least. This is a functioning country. In fact, it's a functioning democracy.

1:31Janeth Vazquez:Retired Army General David Petraeus, coming up in about 10 minutes. But first, the Supreme Court has given President Trump more power in his campaign of mass deportation. The court says the government can keep deporting people to third countries. that is, not the U.S. and not their country of origin, places where they often have no family or language ties. The administration says it's a tactic that's necessary to speed up the pace of deportations, as the government has set a quota for expelling a million immigrants a year, or an average of 3 ,000 a day. Let's hear from Michelle Mendez. She's legal director of the National Immigration Project, a non-profit association of lawyers and advocates that defends non-citizens.

2:14Janeth Vazquez:She spoke to Indira Lakshmanan. Okay, so let's look at yesterday's Supreme Court ruling. Does that mean that any immigrant who's been detained could be sent to a country they have no connection to? And I'm trying to understand why not just send them back to their home country in the first place? So no, it's not going to mean that just anybody's going to get sent to a third country. The people who are impacted by this decision are people who an immigration judge has said, you don't get asylum protection, but you get something called withholding of removal or protection under the Convention Against Torture, which says that you cannot be removed to that specific country where you would face persecution or torture.

2:57Janeth Vazquez:So the administration has found these other countries, they're called third countries, where they can send or where they think they can send people to. So it's essentially a workaround. Somebody has applied for asylum. They say, I have reason to fear for my life and my safety in my home country. And the administration is saying, fine, but then you don't get to live here. We're sending you to Rwanda or another country. Exactly. Tell us, do they have any recourse if they get sent to a country that they have no connection to? Well, I think it is just very difficult once a person has been removed to undo that damage.

3:34Janeth Vazquez:Okay, the Trump administration has so far deported more than 25 ,000 people since last year to about 30 countries they have no connection to, places as far away as Equatorial Guinea and Uzbekistan. But before deportation, they're held in U.S. detention centers under final orders to remove them. You're saying the administration is removing their names from the tracking system? That's correct. They have been removed from the ICE detainee locator. My colleagues, for example, who have these cases were some of the first to realize I can't find my client anymore. And so now that the decision has come down from the Supreme Court, and they're very much facing imminent removal to a third country, counsel needs to find them and take whatever measures to keep them from being removed to that third country.

4:24Janeth Vazquez:So explain why this matters. under our judicial system, they get due process. Even if they're not U.S. citizens, they are entitled to due process. And your organization is arguing that these people are essentially being disappeared from our tracking system, and therefore their lawyers are unable to advocate for them, unable to appeal their deportation. Yes. I think it's like a parent who watches their baby through a baby monitor, only to one day, out of nowhere, suddenly, find that that baby monitor has been disconnected. So why would you disconnect the baby monitor if you didn't intend to hurt the baby?

5:05Janeth Vazquez:So I think of it that way, and I don't see a justification for this move, except for that there's ill intentions behind it. So with all of that in mind, I want to take you back to the case of the immigrant who was shot in the back in Austin, Texas this month. We spoke with his lawyer. She says that the government says he was sent a notice of final removal, but he never received it. Therefore, he didn't show up, which then made him a target for arrest. How common is that kind of scenario? That's a very common scenario, and it's increasingly common because of scheduling tactics and other tactics that the immigration courts are currently using, which basically set up the person to fail, to not appear at their hearing.

5:52Janeth Vazquez:And it's important to note here for those individuals who don't appear that never got notice that a final order of removal is quite a misnomer. There are ways to challenge these orders of removal. So that recourse for that person could be ongoing. It should be ongoing, yet they're going to be disappeared from the ICE detainee locator and they're going to be removed potentially. Well, listeners may not realize that immigration judges who issue these orders for removal are actually part of the executive branch, and it's not till very late in the appeal process that these cases reach a member of the judiciary.

6:27Janeth Vazquez:Is that right? That's correct, yes. An immigration judge is also a bit of a misnomer because these are attorneys who basically work at the pleasure of the attorney general, which of course resides within the executive branch. So both immigration judges and the Department of Homeland Security, those adjudicators are all part of the executive branch. The Department of Homeland Security says that the people who are subject to final removal orders have received due process. Do you think that's the case? And is the system working for people who are caught up in it? No, it's impossible to know that.

7:05Janeth Vazquez:And each person should have the right to assess what process is due to them. And of course, it's hard for them to do that, though, if they don't have counsel, which is also very common. Michelle Mendez is legal director for the National Immigration Project. Michelle, thank you so much. Thank you.

7:26Janeth Vazquez:More immigration news coming up next. In just a minute, Robin Young speaks with the mayor of a small town in Kansas where ice raids have disrupted daily life and the local economy. More after the break.

7:47Michelle Mendez:Stay tuned for the following announcements and messages from our sponsors.

7:52Janeth Vazquez:Well, let's go now to Liberal, Kansas, the town that is. One day last week, the vice mayor said she saw ICE agents round up 40 to 60 people and take them away in two vans. That's a lot of people in a town that only has about 18 ,000 residents. It's home to the Dorothy's House Museum, where the fictional Dorothy launched into Oz. Also home to one of the country's largest beef processing plants. Now, ice arrests are reportedly causing a lot of concern in all of southwestern Kansas. The Kansas Farmers Union said they've caused significant disruption for the agriculture economy. The Kansas Livestock Association says they will result in higher beef prices.

8:31Janeth Vazquez:So let's bring in the vice mayor of liberal Kansas, Jeanette Vasquez. Vice mayor, welcome. Hello.

8:38Michelle Mendez:Thank you so much for having me on your show.

8:40Janeth Vazquez:Well, and tell us, who were the people arrested?

8:44Michelle Mendez:So it's hard to say who the people arrested were just because ICE is not coordinating with us or giving us any information. The only information I can give you is what I personally have seen. And I saw the transportation of two vans. I want to say each van held approximately 20 to 30 individuals. as far as like tracking down who the individuals are has been very difficult. Do you even know where they are? So I don't know where all of them are. I do know that some of them were flown out to Wyoming. So we were able to locate where they were flown to. And we looked at their jail log. We did see approximately 40 people on that jail log.

9:30Michelle Mendez:But that was just one day. We don't know where the individuals from day two and three were transported to.

9:36Janeth Vazquez:Look, there was a post, you know, a social media post saying some businesses in southwest Kansas are temporarily closing because of ICE agents. You say correct. But in response to that, the Secretary of Homeland Security, Mark Wayne Mullins, said ICE is not conducting worksite operations in Kansas. You've got, you know, operations, you know, having to do with beef there. Are you seeing worksite operations being targeted by ICE?

10:07Michelle Mendez:Yes, I can tell you that that statement that they made is a lie. I personally saw it with my eyes. I saw the security at the beef plant try to kick them out numerous times. And so they were basically just circling the parking lot and didn't have permission to be there. And I also got a little bit intimidated because I really didn't know what was going on. And so at that point, I saw the security guard put his vehicle close to ISIS to try to get them to get off the road. And so, like I said, it was just a scary situation because I didn't know what was going on. But I can tell you that I personally saw ICE vans in another vehicle circling in the parking lot at the meatpacking plant.

10:50Janeth Vazquez:Okay, so you have a conflicting eyewitness report, which conflicts with what Mark Wayne Mullen, the Homeland Security Secretary, is saying. Meanwhile, the great Ben Chamber of Commerce, this is a little ways from you there in southwest Kansas, they've been connecting local entrepreneurs with resources after a few businesses in town did temporarily close because of increased law enforcement and ICE activity. and there are reports, and this is from KAKE News in that area, that at least 150 people gathered in downtown Great Bend Thursday night to voice concerns about ICE agents in their community.

11:29Janeth Vazquez:This is really going under the radar in the rest of the country. You say what? What are you hearing from people there?

11:37Michelle Mendez:And so it's not just what I'm hearing. It's what I'm physically seeing with my own eyes. I can tell you during the ICE operations, our town just became a ghost town. People were not out and about. The businesses were closed. Employees weren't going to work. There was so much fear. I know specifically at a nearby dairy, more than 150 individuals stayed the night there for approximately five days in fear of getting picked up by ICE. And so I think that just speaks volumes that they chose to stay the night at their workplace of just how terrified our community members are.

12:16Janeth Vazquez:Look, there are probably going to be people who will speak in favor of ICE and what they say they are doing, which is detaining people who have committed heinous crimes and who've come into the country illegally. You're the first Latina elected in liberal Kansas. Again, that's the name of the town. You're also from a mixed status family who immigrated from Mexico. Do you have your own personal fears?

12:44Michelle Mendez:I don't have personal fears, but I can tell you that I went through an experience and I still have a lot of trauma. My personal story is my dad was deported when I was starting my first semester in college. And it's very unfortunate because he did everything the right way. He was filing a petition. This was back in like the 90s. But unfortunately, we had an attorney who scammed us over$60 ,000. And so reliving all this and seeing other families being torn apart like mine was torn apart brings a lot of mixed emotions. And it basically takes me back to the experiences that I had.

13:27Janeth Vazquez:Vice Mayor Vasquez, you illustrate some of the complications here. We're going to have to leave it at that. But thank you for shedding some light on what's going on in your part of the country, which I think a lot of people are unaware of. of Janeth Vasquez, again, vice mayor of Liberal Kansas. Thank you so much. We'll stay in touch. Thank you. Thank you.

13:51Janeth Vazquez:There's more reporting on immigration enforcement at our website here at now.org, including a conversation with The Guardian reporter who says ICE is detaining a record number of pregnant women. Some say they're being denied proper medical care and have had miscarriages while in custody. You can hear that conversation at hereandnow.org. One more story for you on today's show, though. In just a minute, Robin Young reflects on the withdrawal of American troops from Iraq with a retired Army general who led U.S. and Allied forces in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Stick around.

14:30Janeth Vazquez:Stay tuned for the following announcements and messages from our sponsors.

14:38Janeth Vazquez:Sounds from a parade in Baghdad today. National Sovereignty Day, four days actually, marking the withdrawal of the last of the U.S. troops. It was over two decades ago, in 2003, an American-led invasion ultimately overthrew then-President Saddam Hussein. Combat forces were withdrawn in 2011 after 4 ,500 American service members died. Nearly 300 ,000 Iraqis also killed. But U.S. troops returned in 2014 to fight the Islamic State, which rose during the war. President Biden agreed to today's withdrawal back in 2024. The Trump administration is now carrying it out. Let's get some thoughts from retired Army General David Petraeus.

15:17Janeth Vazquez:He led U.S. and allied forces in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. General, we've spoken over the years. What are you thinking about on this day?

15:27Michelle Mendez:Well, a military commander, former military commander, would always like to have footprints wherever you can around the world. And Iraq is no exception. But by and large, the Islamic State, which we helped the Iraqi forces destroy when they rose from the ashes, really, of their situation, they were destroyed during the surge in Iraq in 2007, 2008. But unfortunately, the Iraqi forces took their eye off them after we left in 2011. They were able to reconstitute themselves through power from the Syrian civil war. And if you recall, controlled northern Iraq and much of western Iraq. We went back in.

16:11Michelle Mendez:We helped the Iraqi forces. But those forces are much, much better now than they were back then. There's also a very robust counterterrorism service that's actually separate from their military, reports directly to the prime minister. And I think they are capable of keeping an eye on the Islamic State. But keep in mind that much of what happens now will depend on the United States maintaining a good intelligence relationship, security assistance, counterterrorism, diplomatic, economic, and so forth. And I think that that will be the case very much. Indeed, the new Prime Minister's first trip was to the United States, seeking to shore up that relationship and very much focusing on attracting business and so forth to Iraq.

16:57Michelle Mendez:And these forces will set up, they'll be in a headquarters in Jordan where they can still keep an eye on the situation in the region. But again, that was a good base. It was right on an airfield. It offered a lot of mobility and capability to us and a partnership with the Iraqi forces that obviously will not be the case in the wake of this withdrawal.

17:18Janeth Vazquez:Yeah. You know, General, we can't help but be thinking back and that this was an invasion based on false claims of intelligence about weapons of mass destruction. This was, you know, claims made by then Vice President Cheney, President George Dowe.

17:31Michelle Mendez:These are claims accepted by both parties.