In short
Episode topic: Three conversations on mega-famous musicians: Orville Peck’s album Mule and his 2023 overdose/recovery; Carly Rae Jepsen’s double album Day and Night and her Broadway debut; and a debate over whether stadium owners can bar artists for political speech, sparked by Macklemore being removed from Ed Sheeran’s tour at Robert Kraft’s request.
Guest backgrounds
Orville Peck is a South Africa-born, openly gay country artist known for performing with a face-concealing mask. Carly Rae Jepsen is a Canadian pop star who broke out with “Call Me Maybe” and is writing/creating a Broadway musical adaptation of 10 Things I Hate About You. John Blistein is a senior writer at Rolling Stone covering the Macklemore controversy.
Key claims
Peck says Mule is a chronological account of his crisis and healing; he’s sober and happy, and recovery is ongoing. Jepsen frames Day and Night as “day” folk/psychedelic and “night” dance-house, shaped by motherhood and desire. Blistein argues the escalation centers on Kraft “putting his finger on the scale” and venue power, especially where public funding/tax credits are involved.
Notable examples
Peck’s near-fatal 2023 New York overdose; treatment center and “already gone”; mask taken off for Cabaret. Jepsen’s “On Wires” (shoegazy, scream-sing) and ABBA-inspired “night” track; Broadway musical announcement. Macklemore’s “free Palestine” at MetLife (Sept 4), Kraft’s ban from Gillette Stadium, and multiple openers dropping out in solidarity.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOOrville Peck's Journey
0:00 to 0:12
Discussion about Orville Peck's persona and his latest album.
“Support for Here and Now Anytime comes from MathWorks, creator of MATLAB and Simulink software, to design and develop engineered systems, accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science.”
Orville Peck's Journey
0:56 to 1:56
Discussion about Orville Peck's persona and his latest album.
“And after that, should a stadium owner get to decide who plays their venue based on their political views?”
Struggles with Addiction
1:56 to 3:14
Orville shares his near-fatal overdose and its impact.
“In some ways, he is the archetype of country music.”
Creating 'Mule'
3:14 to 5:02
Orville discusses the emotional journey behind his album 'Mule'.
“It's out today, and Orville Peck, thank you so much for coming here to speak with us.”
Facing Treatment and Resistance
5:02 to 7:00
Orville reflects on his experience in rehab and initial resistance to help.
“He's a man without a mission, but he sticks to his guns.”
The Significance of the Mask
7:00 to 9:21
Discussion about Orville's mask and its role in his life and career.
“You were leaving a relationship or had left a relationship.”
Influence of Dolly Parton
9:21 to 11:15
Orville shares his admiration for Dolly Parton and her impact on him.
“and it is kind of attractive to like be less knowable, I'm sure.”
Themes of Healing
11:15 to 12:52
Exploration of healing and recovery themes in Orville's music.
“You know, I think she exemplified so many things that I have really strived to be as an artist, whether that's sort of her kindness and personality, but also, you know, her non-ambassage just being herself.”
Living with Fear and Acceptance
12:52 to 14:01
Orville discusses fear of the future and the acceptance of life's uncertainties.
“Yeah, I mean, it's saved my life, literally.”
Finding Peace in Uncertainty
14:01 to 14:43
Orville Peck shares insights on control and peace through sobriety.
“And we spend so much time just desperately trying to control things.”
Show all 24 chapters
Transition to Carly Rae Jepsen
14:43 to 15:24
A brief transition and introduction to Carly Rae Jepsen's new album.
“It may look like I'm fine, but you'll realize in time, you've been talking to a man turned mule.”
Carly Rae Jepsen's Dual Album Concept
15:24 to 16:28
Carly Rae discusses the vision behind her new double album, Day and Night.
“15 years after Call Me Maybe, Canadian pop star Carly Rae Jepsen is still busy.”
Exploring Day and Night Themes
16:28 to 17:49
Carly Rae explains the sonic differences and themes of her album's tracks.
“so there were two things going on in my mind.”
Desire and Complexity in Music
17:49 to 18:56
Carly Rae discusses the deeper meanings and changes in her songs post-motherhood.
“I mean, I'm just listening to the lyrics and kind of listening to the vibe.”
Balancing Motherhood and Music
18:56 to 19:42
Carly Rae shares her experiences of motherhood and its impact on her music.
“And kind of add these complexities of all these other meanings for what that meant to me.”
Nostalgia for ABBA and Dance Music
19:42 to 20:43
Carly Rae reveals her inspiration from ABBA and the retro style of her music videos.
“Well, the night side of this album, let's listen to some of that.”
Broadway Musical Adaptation Insights
20:43 to 21:52
Carly Rae discusses her new Broadway musical adaptation of 10 Things I Hate About You.
“You know, what strikes me about that song is that it's super upbeat, right?”
Reflections on 'Call Me Maybe'
21:52 to 22:56
Carly Rae reflects on her iconic song and its lasting impact on her career.
“Does part of you still sometimes think, yeah, I should I should actually be on stage on this show?”
Pressure of Following a Hit
22:56 to 24:09
Carly Rae discusses the pressure to create after her massive hit, 'Call Me Maybe'.
“How do you feel about that track today, 15 years later?”
Evolution as an Artist
24:09 to 25:46
Carly Rae shares her growth as an artist and the joy of her latest album.
“Let's listen to one more song from the night side.”
Anticipation for New Music
25:46 to 26:20
Carly Rae reveals her excitement for audiences to hear her new music.
“and it's just such a joy to put it all together.”
Macklemore's Controversial Performance
26:55 to 27:36
Discussion of Macklemore's removal from Ed Sheeran's tour over political statements.
“Should a stadium owner get to decide whether to bar an artist from performing at the venue because of their political views?”
Exploring the Art-Politics Conflict
27:36 to 28:00
A deeper look into the implications of art intersecting with political views.
“So, you know, in some ways, I guess this is a classic conflict between art and politics.”
Macklemore's Controversy and Its Impact
28:00 to 32:22
Explore the controversy surrounding Macklemore and its implications for artists and venues.
“I do want to play part of Macklemore's speech here from that show on September 4th at MetLife Stadium in New Jersey.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Orville Peck:Support for Here and Now Anytime comes from MathWorks, creator of MATLAB and Simulink software, to design and develop engineered systems, accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science. Learn more at mathworks.com. WBUR Podcasts, Boston. You know, I joke that my mask and I are like a married couple and we do a lot of like couples therapy over the years. country star orville peck talks about his new album his near fatal overdose and the mask he wears on stage
0:46Orville Peck:it's friday september 18th and this is here and now anytime from npr and wbr i'm chris bentley
0:56Orville Peck:today on the show it is friday and we've got three conversations about mega famous musicians two with new albums out including
1:10Orville Peck:carly ray jepsen who shot to stardom in 2011 with the millennial dance floor staple call me maybe her latest album day and night takes a turn into folk and late night disco
1:21Carly Rae Jepsen:It's a really different flavor of music, and it's just what I'm really attracted to right now in terms of influences and styles, and it's just such a joy to put it all together.
1:32Orville Peck:And after that, should a stadium owner get to decide who plays their venue based on their political views? These venues receive public funding in the form of tax credits, and they're making big decisions about what can be seen. Before we get to that story, though, Peter O'Dowd has this conversation with a country star who defies convention and whose personal journey became an international phenomenon.
1:56Jon Blistein:Orville Peck is still a mystery. In some ways, he is the archetype of country music. Handsome in his boots and western wear, a powerful, booming voice. But then, beneath the brim of his hat, there is that mask that conceals his face whenever he appears in public. Orville Peck was born in South Africa. He's openly gay, and his latest album is a revelation.
2:26Orville Peck:Chase their darkness away.
2:29Jon Blistein:It's a chronological rehashing of a terrible year that started in the summer of 2023, when he nearly died from an overdose before a show in New York City. It starts with this haunting eulogy featuring Emmylou Harris, Alison Russell, and Noah Cyrus, and then shuffles into the isolation and loneliness he felt as his addiction and his life spiraled out of control.
2:52Orville Peck:I live alone, honey, big old house and it's full of course I used to know. Sit awake, darling, watch the sun rising, finish myself on final blow.
3:13Jon Blistein:The album is called Mule, and it ends with a note of redemption and healing and a hint of lingering sadness. It's out today, and Orville Peck, thank you so much for coming here to speak with us. Yeah, thank you for having me. First of all, how are you doing? And I mean that in the biggest sense of the question.
3:32Orville Peck:I'm doing great, thank you. I am sober and happy and doing very, very well, thank you.
3:39Jon Blistein:Good. Well, the album, it must have been very difficult to put together in its own way. It starts with that eulogy I was talking about. So for people who aren't familiar with your story, can you share what happened in 2023 that brought you into this crisis?
3:55Orville Peck:Yeah, it was a series of kind of crazy events. It was back when I just put out Bronco, my album, two albums ago. And I had this kind of massive shift in, I guess, whatever you want to call it, success or schedule. I was like crazy busy. I was very overworked and overwhelmed trying to navigate, I guess, a career that I never really anticipated having when I was younger. And then to cope with that, I was a very functioning alcoholic and drug addict. And then my partner left me in part because of sort of where I was at. And then, yeah, it sort of just spiraled this chain of events where suddenly I couldn't really control anything anymore.
4:40Orville Peck:And I had, you know, like a kind of a a mental breakdown, I guess you could say. And, uh, I checked myself into a treatment center and, uh, canceled my touring for a year and I wasn't sure what the future was going to be.
4:53Jon Blistein:Well, uh, that brings us to one of your songs called already gone. It's about sort of reaching this idea that I think it's time to clean up and go to rehab. Let's listen. Oh yeah.
5:02Orville Peck:Here he comes. The one who always runs. He's a man without a mission, but he sticks to his guns. Don't frown, darling, where's the fun?
5:16Jon Blistein:So in the video, it's kind of amusing, actually. You don't actually look very pleased to be in rehab. I'm curious if you resisted getting help at first, or if you could see, if it took you some time to see that you needed that help.
5:28Orville Peck:Well, I think there are different forms of resistance. I mean, I didn't resist going. I went, and then the resistance started sort of behind my eyes, I think, while I was in treatment. I, like a lot of addicts, I believe that I didn't have a problem. You know, I was looking at everyone else in the treatment center and thinking, oh boy, these people are really sick. Like this is, you know, this isn't me. These people have a problem. All I have to do is just like, you know, get a little rest. I've been working really hard. I've been going through a lot. I just got to get my drinking under control and, you know, I'll be fine.
6:02Orville Peck:I don't really need all of this other stuff that's going on. So yeah, I mean, what you see in the video is sort of this dark humor take because I was sort of just rolling my eyes at the whole thing, you know, because I was just an egotistical addict and hadn't really come to grips with really that I had a problem or what I needed to do to sort of find a solution. Ooh-hoo, put me in the slammer. Ooh-hoo, drop another hammer, baby. No need to impress me, I'm already gone. I'm already gone. I'm already gone. I'm already gone. I'm already gone.
6:52Jon Blistein:I'm already gone. You talk about how the problem sort of comes to the surface when these events in your life were unfolding. Your fame was sort of rising. You were leaving a relationship or had left a relationship. But did you have inklings of this in your life before sort of like all the lights turned on?
7:10Orville Peck:Yeah, I mean, listen, I had my first drink, I think, when I was 15 years old. And I played in punk bands and, you know, was a traveling musician for over 20 years ago now. So for the majority of my career, even before I started making country music, I was, you know, in an environment where drinking and drugs were sort of commonplace and very normalized. and you know it was like without question i would go on stage at least having a few beers probably drink a few more on stage and then drink some more afterwards you know it was very very acceptable still is very acceptable i think in a lot of these kind of environments and so that i didn't realize that that started to become a coping mechanism and then when my life started to fall apart i think i really leaned on this thing that had sort of been like surreptitiously lurking the whole time yeah
7:58Jon Blistein:Yeah. I want to ask you, and forgive me because I'm sure you are prepared for this question anytime anyone talks to you in an interview, but I want to ask you about the mask that you're almost always wearing. It's part of this persona that you've developed as Orville Peck. And I would imagine, though, you tell me at this point, like, do you just kind of groan when people ask you about the mask?
8:19Orville Peck:I used to, definitely for a long time. I think I went through, it's like, you know, I joke that my mask and I are like a married couple and we do a lot of like couples therapy over the years. I mean, there was honestly a time where I really resented the mask. Like I, I was sort of resentful that I had put it on. Um, I hated the attention that it started to bring me. I hated people's takes on it. It started to kind of, uh, I really started to not like it. And then there's been moments in my life where I've been so incredibly grateful that I've had the mask for various reasons of my privacy. And so it's been sort of like a rollercoaster with the mask, But I can happily say that like I'm really happy and at peace with it now.
8:59Orville Peck:You know, honestly, I don't think about it very much. Like I truly just put it on. Like I put my socks on when I'm working and I kind of just roll with it. And I mean, I have a lot of fun with it again. You know, like I brought my fringe back and I kind of mix it up every now and then. It's just a part of my expression as an artist. It's no deeper than that anymore.
9:17Jon Blistein:That's interesting. You know, it's hard not to read. I mean, what does the mask mean? What is he trying to say? You know, that sort of thing. and it is kind of attractive to like be less knowable, I'm sure. But considering what we were talking about earlier, I'm wondering if like at some point would taking it off be helpful for you?
9:35Orville Peck:Yeah, you know, I think I did Broadway last year. I was very lucky. I played the MC in Cabaret, which was a lifelong dream for me. And I took the mask off for that because I'm playing, you know, a character obviously in that. And I didn't want to make it anything about my personal, you know, expression as an artist in that way. and it kind of freed me, you know, to make the decision that when I want to, if I want to, I can take it off. I am going to be doing a lot more acting in the future again because it's another passion of mine that I'd put on the back burner for a long time. And so whenever I'm playing a role that doesn't require the mask, I'll take it off, you know, even if that's film or whatever.
10:10Orville Peck:And that's kind of where I'm at with it now. You know, I feel very comfortable taking it off for something that's important.
10:15Jon Blistein:Well, speaking of film, you're going to star as Vega in the live action Street Fighter film that's coming out pretty soon. But Orville, I want to ask you about speaking of persona in costume. I saw your tribute to Dolly Parton after she died. And I think we have some of that here we can listen to.
10:32Orville Peck:And I will always love you. I will always, I will always love you.
10:57Jon Blistein:What did Dolly Parton mean to you?
11:00Orville Peck:You know, I think I realized that night when we'd heard that she had passed, it was 30 minutes before my show in London. I was doing a small signing at a record store. I'd never thought about it in these terms before, but Dolly was my hero. You know, I think she exemplified so many things that I have really strived to be as an artist, whether that's sort of her kindness and personality, but also, you know, her non-ambassage just being herself. You know, I think she carved such an incredible career for herself without ever changing who she was. And I think people sometimes forget that, you know, Dolly was almost rebellious about being herself.
11:41Orville Peck:And I think that inspired a lot of what I do. As a gay man in country music, right? Absolutely. And I realized on stage two, I think just Dolly existing, I think, provided me with a very big level of comfort as an artist that is different in my genre. And so I owe a lot to Dolly, to be honest. I think she really inspired a lot of the courage that I've had over the years, for sure.
12:06Jon Blistein:Had you ever met her?
12:07Orville Peck:No, sadly. But I recently found out that she did know about me, and so I'm very thrilled about that.
12:14Jon Blistein:Well, listen, I do want to come full circle here and listen to a track that's near the end of your new album. It's called The Breeze, The Grass, The Morning Dove, and Me. Okay.
12:25Orville Peck:One thing I've been told is that tomorrow's come going So I'll hold on to what you say I know that people change, but some things are just meant to be Like the breeze, the grass, the morning dove and me Sit around and wait
12:45Jon Blistein:I feel a shift by the end of this album. I think that's the point. A lightness that comes from healing. Could you talk about what it is like and what it's been like for you to come out of the darkness that you were in?
12:57Orville Peck:Yeah, I mean, it's saved my life, literally. it has taught me what I need to do not only to navigate this industry and you know show business or whatever you want to call it but it's also just what I need to do to navigate myself I think my life was in crisis and that's part of the reason I was drinking so much but you know for me drinking was the solution to much more than just that moment and those moments could come again in my life and so i i've learned that i just have to be really on top of my recovery and on top of all the things that make me feel good about myself and healthy you know and and there is a shift in the album you know the album is actually every song is a chronological timeline of that year so we go along the story with me um if you listen to it from top to bottom and then by that time things are definitely starting to shift and you hear it in the music of course yeah but i think
13:51Jon Blistein:about the mask and the parts of us that are always hidden and that recovery and redemption is not always a straight line. And I'm just curious, and we'll leave with this, if part of you is still somewhat fearful about what's ahead.
Read the full transcript
14:03Orville Peck:I mean, of course, you know, I think if you're not afraid these days, you're probably not paying attention, but there's, you know, I think the thing I've found a lot of comfort in through 12-step and sobriety is that there's very, very little that we are in control of in each of our lives. And we spend so much time just desperately trying to control things. And that's, I know I did. And so I find like a lot of peace these days in just letting go of what I can't control and just being really on top of what I can, which is, you know, how I react to things, how I treat people, just that kind of stuff is really just my focus because, you know, the rest is just a losing battle.
14:43Orville Peck, thank you so much.
14:45Jon Blistein:Thank you so much.
14:47Orville Peck:It may look like I'm fine, but you'll realize in time, you've been talking to a man turned mule.
15:02Orville Peck:You've been talking to a man turned mule. Coming up next, from Americana to Canadiana, Peter speaks with the darling of the pop charts, Ms. Call Me Maybe herself, Carly Rae Jepsen, who has a new album out exploring some new musical territory for her. Get that disco ball spinning, and we'll be right back.
15:28Jon Blistein:Remember this song from 2011? Where you think you're going, baby?
15:33Carly Rae Jepsen:Hey, I just met you. And this is crazy. But here's my number. So call me maybe.
15:41Jon Blistein:15 years after Call Me Maybe, Canadian pop star Carly Rae Jepsen is still busy. A Broadway musical comes out next summer and later tonight, her eighth studio album. It's called Day and Night.
15:55Carly Rae Jepsen:Lock the door, turn the lights, it's a celebration I am yours. You are mine, nothing complicated after hours. Every night, even after all.
16:13Jon Blistein:Carly Rae Jepsen, welcome. Nice to talk with you.
16:16Carly Rae Jepsen:Oh, so nice to talk to you.
16:17Jon Blistein:So 24 tracks on this double album, 12 on the day side, 12 on the night side. What's the vision here drawing this distinction between day and night?
16:27Carly Rae Jepsen:Well, I couldn't really make up my mind of what I wanted to do sonically, so there were two things going on in my mind. One was I wanted to do something folky and psychedelic, and that's sort of where the day exists. And the other was this sort of nighttime dancey house thing. So this was a way for me to have my cake and eat it too, so to speak.
16:46Jon Blistein:Let's listen to some of the music. This one is a track from the day side. And if you will, and if you like, I won't make you eat my mind.
16:57Carly Rae Jepsen:I want you.
17:05I want you.
17:07Jon Blistein:This was the first single that came off the album. How do you decide when you're putting an album together, what's going to be the first taste that people get to see?
17:15Carly Rae Jepsen:You know, I always have a little bit of a different tactic for that. But with this album, I really wanted to share something that sort of signaled, expect the unexpected, so to speak. And On Wires is just a song unlike anything I've ever really done before. And I was really excited for it to be the first share for that very reason.
17:32Jon Blistein:How's it different?
17:34Carly Rae Jepsen:It's sort of shoegazy. I mean, I don't really ever like scream sing quite like that. And something about it felt really dreamy and like a good representation of day too. And I knew I wanted to start the album with a day offering and then kind of work our way to the night. So I kind of just trusted my gut.
17:52Jon Blistein:I mean, I'm just listening to the lyrics and kind of listening to the vibe. And it does kind of sound like you're saying something about desire and its urgency. Like it can't wait.
18:13Carly Rae Jepsen:Yeah, I do scream I want you over and over again. Yes, you are not wrong there. No, I mean, it was really actually quite an interesting song when you look at the full kind of world that was created afterwards because this song really started from a place of exactly what you said, desire. And then later on, we shot the music video and I was like, fast forward by this time, I was like six months pregnant. So we kind of had to like spin the meaning of that song and it became a different thing in the music video. It was sort of this idea of, you know, I want a life outside of just the music business.
18:44Carly Rae Jepsen:I want balance. I want all the things. I want a child and a family. And so it was really fun to kind of like take, you know, desire, which is usually just such an obvious answer for what that is. And kind of add these complexities of all these other meanings for what that meant to me.
19:00Jon Blistein:Speaking of that, you now have that baby that you wanted. I do. So that's a profound personal change. How's it affected the music and maybe even this album?
19:11Carly Rae Jepsen:Pretty wild. I mean, I haven't really written a new album since he's came. Since he's arrived, there has been mostly, you know, children's songs that I am singing to him. But the truth is, is that I think, I think like it is a profound difference now having him here. But it's kind of amazing because I have an incredible partner. We're sort of taking on this adventure together of, you know, getting ready to tour and kind of have a plus one with me everywhere I go. And it's such a joyful experience. I love it so much.
19:42Jon Blistein:Well, the night side of this album, let's listen to some of that. It feels like a dance party, which kind of makes sense. Here's one of the tracks.
20:07Jon Blistein:So first of all, I love the video for that song. It's like super retro. And after listening to that track, I'm going to guess, I'm just going to go out on a limb and guess that you're a fan of ABBA.
20:17Carly Rae Jepsen:You are not wrong. This is a very ABBA-inspired track. Jeremy O 'Harris was our director behind this incredible music video. We had Alden come and dance for us. It was a really, really fun day. And yes, a big, big nod and bow down to ABBA. Actually, I'd seen ABBA Voyage when I was in London, and I was very, very inspired by that trip, and I was determined to kind of do my own spin on something ABBA-esque.
20:43Jon Blistein:You know, what strikes me about that song is that it's super upbeat, right? But it's also kind of sad, which, speaking of the day-night dichotomy, right? I mean, am I reading that right?
20:53Carly Rae Jepsen:Yeah, I mean, I didn't want the day to be bright and happy and the night to be dark and sad necessarily, But I was aware, and I think this is true for all humans, that at nighttime sort of all of our emotions feel heightened and intensified. And what can feel like a trivial thing all of a sudden has this like drama to it at nighttime. And I really wanted the music to reflect that as well. So I was a little bit more breezy and dreamy during the day. And everything got a little bit more dramatic when we go to the night side of the album.
21:22Jon Blistein:And Carly Rae, you're also writing your first Broadway musical, as I said. It's an adaptation of 10 Things I Hate About You, written by Lena Dunham and Jessica Wong. What's it like to be on that end of a Broadway production? Because, of course, you starred on stage as Cinderella in 2014.
21:39Carly Rae Jepsen:Oh, it's so wild. I'm still kind of taking it in. I'm still absorbing the news that this is happening, even though it's been a project that I've been a part of for years. But it's really amazing. It's a completely different side of my brain. I love writing music for my own project, but it's a completely new challenge and an exciting one to kind of think of these characters and what would they be feeling and thinking. And yeah, a whole new world. Really, really excited about it.
22:04Jon Blistein:Does part of you still sometimes think, yeah, I should I should actually be on stage on this show?
22:09Carly Rae Jepsen:You know what? No, I was really excited to kind of be more the creator behind the project on this. And it's like a high school musical. It's very fitting that the characters that are there are there. I would be a strange woman being 40 back in high school. So I'm enjoying more today. I'm enjoying more just getting to kind of, you know, relive in the joy of the 90s. And it's such like a flavor of music that I'm just having a great time diving into.
22:36Jon Blistein:Wow, you're reminding me how quickly time has passed because I wanted to ask you to go back to 2011 when it all started. Let's listen to this song. It's hard to look right at your baby.
22:50Carly Rae Jepsen:But here's my number, so call me maybe. Hey, I just made you.
22:55Jon Blistein:So that's you, obviously. How do you feel about that track today, 15 years later? Because I'm always interested to hear what an artist's relationship is to the song that catapulted them to fame.
23:07Carly Rae Jepsen:You know, it's so funny. I was just listening to it with you right now for the first time in a hot minute. And actually, you know who showed it to me the other day when it was so cute was my little niece. My little niece, Ivy, said, hey, I've been listening to the song lately. I think it's your song. Here's how it goes. And she sang it to me in its entirety. And I was like, this is wild. She said, I think it's yours. Yeah. Yeah. It was really cute. I loved it. You know, the amount of joy and like connection that that song has brought to my life and, and kind of just seen the way it kind of took on a life of its own.
23:41Carly Rae Jepsen:It's, it's nothing but magic. So I feel real nostalgia and appreciation for it. And obviously I've sang it more than any person should sing any song ever. So there's a bit of that too. But mostly I come back to deep gratitude for the career that it's allowed me to have. Yeah. And the audience introduced me to.
23:57Jon Blistein:I hear that. But I wonder if you felt pressure after that song, because it was such a hit, to immediately make the next one.
24:04Carly Rae Jepsen:Yeah. Yeah, I did. I think that was a normal reaction when I look at it in hindsight. But it was more just a craving to show the other aspects of what I make musically because it's definitely a flavor but it wasn't the only one so i think if i had such delight in taking my time with the making of emotion because it was a real sort of answer to that question of like what do i have to contribute to pop music what is it that i like about pop music and that sort of led me on a journey ever since of really asking that question with every project i take on including day and night yeah well uh speaking of that i mean this
24:39Jon Blistein:is different than call me maybe this new album but of course you still have some of yours yeah You still have some of the signature elements there that make you who you are. Let's listen to one more song from the night side.
25:08Jon Blistein:so do you feel like a different person a different artist than you were when you first
25:12Carly Rae Jepsen:exploded into stardom um i think like any person i feel like i've grown up through the years and and hopefully, you know, learn some things. But no, I don't feel like that's an old me and this is the new me. It just feels like a journey I've been on and I can look back with like fondness, but I'm really happy with, I think I'm more proud of this album and this body of work than anything I've created so far. And I think every artist is hoping that that's how they feel when they move forward. But yeah, this is, as you said, it's a really different flavor of music and it's just what I'm really attracted to right now in terms of influences and styles.
25:47Carly Rae Jepsen:and it's just such a joy to put it all together.
25:50Jon Blistein:Is there a track you're most excited about or maybe even nervous about having audiences here for the first time?
25:55Carly Rae Jepsen:Oh, I like that question. You know, I'm going to go off with my gut right now. There's a song called You Don't Know How It Feels on nighttime that I think is pretty sultry. I would say that's one I'm really excited about people hearing.
26:08Jon Blistein:Okay. We're going to hear it now. Carly Rae Jepsen. The new album is called Day and Night. It's out everywhere at midnight tonight. Thank you so much.
26:17Carly Rae Jepsen:Thank you so much.
26:19Orville Peck:That conversation is from yesterday, actually. So that album came out at midnight. Go spin it, if you please. And coming up, we've got one more conversation for you on today's show. About a billionaire, free expression, and Macklemore.
26:37Orville Peck:Stick around.
26:40Carly Rae Jepsen:This message comes from Mint Mobile.
26:42Orville Peck:If you're tired of spending hundreds on big wireless bills, bogus fees and free perks, Mint Mobile is for you.
26:50Carly Rae Jepsen:Shop plans at mintmobile.com slash switch. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.
26:57Jon Blistein:Should a stadium owner get to decide whether to bar an artist from performing at the venue because of their political views? That is the question at the center of a drama this week swirling around the rapper Macklemore. He was kicked off Ed Sheeran's tour at the request of Robert Kraft, the billionaire owner of the New England Patriots. Kraft was outraged when Macklemore said free Palestine on stage at a recent show. So Kraft banned the rapper from future performances at Gillette Stadium, and all supporting acts have quit Sheeran's tour in solidarity with Macklemore. John Blistein is a senior writer for Rolling Stone.
27:35Jon Blistein:He has been following. John, welcome. Thank you for having me. So, you know, in some ways, I guess this is a classic conflict between art and politics. Have you been surprised at how quickly this story escalated?
27:47Orville Peck:uh yeah i think so um i remember talking to my editor on monday after macklemore was first dropped and we figured you know there might be a statement from ed and it would um quiet down after that and the show would continue we were i think we were both saying like oh it'd be wild if the openers did anything and the next day every single opener dropped out it uh escalated very quickly
28:06Jon Blistein:yeah well according to the wall street journal craft banned macklemore from performing at his stadium and then he convinced other stadium operators to do the same but just by way of context. I do want to play part of Macklemore's speech here from that show on September 4th at MetLife Stadium in New Jersey.
28:23Orville Peck:To all of my Jewish brothers and sisters, criticism of Israel, criticism of apartheid, being against genocide in no way is a criticism of you.
28:39Jon Blistein:my message is for peace love for all human beings to be treated with dignity respect and equality so i say free palestine okay so bob craft later said it wasn't just that comment his problems he says with macklemore go back to a broader history of anti-semitic rhetoric and imagery remind us of
29:01Orville Peck:the context here uh i think there's just one particular instance whose statement was alluding to, which is in 2014, Macklemore was accused of dressing up as an anti-Semitic caricature. At the time, the rapper apologized, and he said he was just kind of trying to disguise himself. I think this was right around the height of his fame when his hit song, A Thrift Shop, came out.
29:21Jon Blistein:Right. Okay. So meanwhile, Macklemore has said he's going to donate a million dollars from his tour earnings to help organizations working with Palestinians. He's also challenged Kraft to do the same. And so Kraft then comes back and says he's going to give$2 million for aid in the region. What do you make of that? I mean, is this some kind of start of a detente between these two men?
29:43Orville Peck:I'm not sure. I think Kraft's statement pointedly said that he reached this decision after talking to Ed Sheeran before Macklemore had issued his so-called challenge. It's partly a PR battle. I think everyone's trying to put a good foot forward. And, yeah, it'll be interesting to see which organizations Kraft donates to. He hasn't specified yet where Macklemore specifically listed six organizations doing humanitarian efforts in Gaza.
30:10Jon Blistein:As you said, there has been a rally of sorts behind Macklemore. Phineas, the brother of Billie Eilish, dropped out of the tour. So did the Danish artist Lucas Graham and the Irish singer Aaron Rowe. What kind of sacrifice is it for some of those smaller bands to step out from a show of this size?
30:28Orville Peck:It's big. I don't know what the contracts say in terms of payday. But, you know, the opening slots on a stadium show are as much about, you know, making a living as a musician as getting your music out to tens of thousands of people who could be potential fans.
30:42Jon Blistein:Ed Sheeran has gotten some heat for not taking a stronger stand. He's basically said he wants these shows to be apolitical. How much does this affect him and his career?
30:51Orville Peck:I think it'll be really interesting to see going forward. I think it looks like he's going to continue with the tour. The tour had been selling well. It wasn't like a fully sold out thing. And I think he's going to continue to play those dates. I'm sure there are a lot of people who are very excited to see him. Clearly, he's still big enough to be selling. um to be playing stadium tours but i do think if you look at some of you know his past few albums they haven't been performing quite as well commercially as his older ones um that said you know he's still a massive massive star and i think we'll just have to like kind of get on the other side of this and see what kind of turned his career takes next why else do you think this story is important to americans um i think the core issue here is a kind of represented by the opening artists and their decision to drop out, which I think, you know, a lot of them did express similar sentiments as Macklemore.
31:40Orville Peck:Some included Free Palestine in their own statements. But I read the backlash as much more kind of centered around Kraft putting his finger on the scale and making a decision that Macklemore couldn't perform at his venue. And then some of these other stadium owners or operators following suit. And I think that's a reminder, too, that, you know, Gillette Stadium is privately owned, Bank of America Stadium in Charlotte, at North Carolina, where they were also set to perform as privately owned. But a lot of these other venues are owned by cities or states. And, you know, I think it's a good reminder that these venues receive public funding in the form of tax credits.
32:15Orville Peck:And, you know, they're making big decisions about what can be seen.
32:19Jon Blistein:John Blistein is senior writer for Rolling Stone. Thanks very much.
32:23Orville Peck:Thank you so much, Peter.
32:30Orville Peck:that's it for the show today here and now anytime comes from npr and wbr boston today's stories were produced by amiko tamagawa hafsa kureishi and ashley lock our editors were todd munt mikaela rodriguez and michael scotto technical direction from caleb green and matt reed our theme music is by mike moschetto max liebman and me chris bentley our digital producers are allison hagan and Grace Griffin. And here at NOW's executive producer is Alan Price. Thanks for listening. Have a great weekend. We'll be back with you on Monday.
33:14Orville Peck:This message comes from Mint Mobile. If you're tired of spending hundreds on big wireless bills, bogus fees, and free perks, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans at mintmobile.com slash switch. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.
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