Is Trump out of options to end the Iran war?

0:00Support for Here and Now Anytime comes from MathWorks, creator of MATLAB and Simulink software, to design and develop engineered systems, accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science. Learn more at mathworks.com. WBUR Podcasts, Boston. Make sure the war ends and that they get some economic relief. And this is something that President Trump could do. He has signed the MOU, and I think it's time to exit the war and just take the win and move on. The U.S. is bombing Iran again, but it's not any closer to achieving its goals. So how much longer will President Trump keep up the war?

0:49It's Thursday, July 16th, and this is Here and Now, anytime from NPR and WBUR. I'm Chris Bentley. Today on the show, more than 100 Democrats and one Republican voted to end most military aid to Israel. The bill did not pass, but it was significant nonetheless. Over half of the Democratic caucus has responded to the pleas and the cries and the energy and organizing across the country. Also, Spain versus Argentina. The World Cup final is set for Sunday after the two teams dispatched with their opponents in the semis. Get caught up if you haven't been following, or get hyped up if you have. We'll have a preview of the match in about 10 minutes.

1:35But first, that interim deal the U.S. had with Iran to end the war there is in tatters after nearly a week of deadly fighting. The two countries intensified their attacks on each other overnight. According to Iranian officials, the latest American strikes killed more than 35 people and wounded at least 300 more. But yesterday, Iran agreed to release an American citizen it accused of espionage, who had been detained since 2024. President Trump called the move a gesture of goodwill. And in a speech on Iranian state TV yesterday, Iran's top negotiator suggested new talks with the U.S. could still happen.

2:16Negar Mortezavi is with the Center for International Policy. She spoke to Peter O'Dowd. So from Tehran's viewpoint, the deal that was signed, the pre-deal memorandum of understanding the MOU, has been violated by the U.S. in Israel. One of the main points of the deal was to end the war on all fronts, including Lebanon. Lebanon was mentioned. It was a complicated process to include it. And then Israel continues a conflict there. And the U.S. response is we don't have full control over Israel. So that's one issue. The other violation the Iranians are pointing out is in the Strait of Hormuz. So they agreed to allow passage, what they call safe passage or quote-unquote innocent passage, which means it has to be coordinated with them so they know who's passing, what's the cargo, what's the ship, etc.

3:01But the U.S. tried to sort of forge open a parallel path without coordination with Iran, telling ships to turn off their transponders and just escorting them, essentially pushing them through the strait from the Omani side. And the Iranians see that as a violation of what was agreed on the paper. And so they started escalating in the Strait of Hormuz. The U.S. responded, and it's just back to the hot conflict right now. Do you see Iran as willing and able to continue this as long as it is necessary? I think they want to. They're in this for the long game, and their thinking is the more they de-escalate or the more they give to President Trump, the more he's going to try to take.

3:40So essentially he signed something on paper and he got criticized for it from not just Democrats but some in his own party saying that this memorandum of understanding and the deal is just giving so many concessions to Iran is taking very little. And I think he started to try to stretch the limits of what was signed on the paper on the battlefield thinking, again, if a little more pressure, a little more force will help make the Iranians capitulate or surrender. And the Iranian message has been, no, they're willing to take a lot of pain, destruction, attacks, etc., but not surrender or capitulate on their force because their long-term thinking is if they do that, it projects weakness and it just invites more pressure and more war.

4:20So if that's the case, what's the plan for the United States now? Because at this point, it does appear that President Trump is stuck in this cycle of reverting to military strikes if Iran doesn't bend to his will. He just told Fox News this week that it would be power plants and bridges if a diplomatic breakthrough wasn't achieved. Exactly. I mean, I think this is a question for President Trump because what we hear even from sources within the administration, people around him and outside, is that there doesn't seem to be a plan or a strategy. Exactly not sure how this time is going to be different, this hot conflict, from the last time, from a few months ago or from last year.

4:57how is this going to change Iranian thinking or strategy or behavior if it didn't do the last time? And so if diplomacy is not pursued in a serious, meaningful way, just going back to conflict is probably not going to yield results. What were the goals? Regime change didn't happen. Destroying nuclear program didn't happen. Destroying their army, destroying their navy, destroying their air force. And the war created a whole new problem that didn't exist before, which is the Strait of Hormuz. And even that cannot be resolved through military means. We got news that the American citizen, Dana Karari, was released from Iranian custody.

5:33Now he's outside of Iran and in good condition. She'd been detained while visiting family, accused of espionage. What does it tell you about Iran's intentions that she was released? I think as President Trump said, this could be a small, you know, goodwill gesture seen from the Iranian side. It's certainly in parallel. There's definitely always background and process behind this. It doesn't come out of the blue, but it can be seen as a goodwill gesture. And President Trump is very quick to announce all of these publicly. It's good. It looks good on him. He also pointed out that she was arrested during the Biden administration.

6:10So there's also domestic politics in what he does. But maybe it's also time for the U.S. to do some goodwill gesture with the Iranians went out of this whole peace deal to make sure the war ends and that they get some economic relief. And this is something that President Trump could do. He has signed the MOU. And I think it's time to exit the war and just take the win and move on. OK. Negar Mordazavi, senior fellow at the Center for International Policy, host of the Iran podcast. Thank you so much, as always. Thank you.

6:42Well, there is dissent in the U.S. over President Trump's war with Iran. There is also growing unrest in Congress over U.S. support for Israel, which is also waging war with Iran, as well as with Hesbola in Lebanon, and continuing to occupy larger and larger swaths of the West Bank and Gaza. Coming up next, what to make of the vote to end most military aid to Israel that ultimately failed, but which got more than 100 votes in the House.

7:26This message comes from Odoo, the all-in-one business management software platform. Whether you're a small or large business, Odoo gives you one flexible platform built to grow with you. Try today for free at odoo.com slash NPR podcasts. 104 members of Congress voted yesterday to cut$3.3 billion in annual military assistance to Israel. The bill, proposed by Republican Congressman Thomas Massey, did not pass. But the fact that almost half of all House Democrats who voted voted in favor of it is noteworthy in and of itself. Representative Pramila Jayapal of Washington called it a sea change. This is the first time in Congress where members of Congress, over half of the Democratic caucus, has responded to the pleas and the cries and the energy and organizing across the country to stop using our taxpayer dollars to send more bombs to kill children in Gaza.

8:33Jacob Cornblue covers politics for The Forward, and he told Peter O'Dowd it's a protest vote. and a sign of division within the Democratic Party. It's very significant because it wasn't just another symbolic vote. It was a sign that the Democratic Party's decade-old consensus on unconditional military aid is rapidly breaking down. You see that the electoral victories in Democratic primaries, you see that with some of the potential Democratic presidential candidates who are traveling to Israel but sending a message that what has happened until now is not going to continue going forward. And it's also reflected in the dear colleague's letter by House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries, who said that, you know, come 2028, when it's renegotiated this memorandum of understanding in terms of providing military assistance to Israel, that everything has to be rethought, that we have to sort of bring in that not only criticism of Israel, but also practical measures that will ensure that Israel is changing course.

9:38Hakeem Jeffries did oppose the amendment, but he notably did not pressure members ahead of this vote. What do you make of the role that progressive Democrats and even the rise of Democratic Socialists are playing here? Yeah, so Hakeem Jeffries managed to avoid a revolt in the leadership. So he allowed members to reflect the changing views of Democratic voters or their own. So by not whipping the vote, but also signaling that if Democrats regain control of the House, that things will change. He's basically, on one hand, giving them what they want. On the other hand, he's also granting them some leverage in his speakership bid.

10:20He still continues to oppose those measures. He still continues to support Israel. What will happen if they use the leverage of their electoral victories and the public opinion against him? You're in New York, which, of course, is home to the largest Jewish population in the United States and a whole lot of Democrats. What's the feeling within the Jewish community about all this? so i mean the feeling is mixed you see jewish organizations even those democratic allied groups who said you know either it was a significant change in democratic party approach to israel but they don't necessarily have an alternative because if you look at the other side and the republican side especially somebody like jd vance america first a maga movement, they're also opposed to Israel aid.

11:12And on the other hand, you have Israeli leaders who are saying that they are ready to phase out. So I'm not sure whether this specific vote or the debate over Israel aid could actually impact the vote in the midterms or in the presidential election, but it's definitely a shift that people are reckoning with. Jacob Kornblu is senior political reporter at The Forward. Jacob, thank you very much. You're welcome. coming up next the world cup final is sunday and it's set to be a match for the ages it's likely to be the last world cup for lionel messi will he cap off his career with back-to-back titles or will la roja of spain continue confidently dominating their competition scott tong has your match preview in just a minute

12:13The World Cup final is set. Argentina yesterday pulled off another late comeback to beat England. So now Lionel Messi and company face Spain and its superstar, Lamin Amal, on Sunday. Reporter Steve Futterman joins us to break it all down from the streets of New York. Steve, can you hear us? I hear you perfectly, Scott. Let's talk about the game yesterday. My goodness, I don't know how many heart doctors they have in Buenos Aires, but Argentina, another cardiac moment. Two late goals yesterday to break England's heart. They came back before against Egypt. They had to come back against Cape Verde.

12:50Steve, what did you see in the Argentina team yesterday? I saw a team that many people, including myself, had given up on come back once again. They will just not accept defeat. It's not in their DNA. And they also have a guy named Lionel Messi, who at age 39 is maybe not as good as he once was, but maybe is smarter than he's ever been. I remember many years ago I spoke to Pete Rose when he turned 40. I said, what can you do, what can't you do? He said, I can't do X, Y, and Z physically, but I'm much smarter. I think Messi is a much smarter player than he's ever been. He knew what he could do.

13:26He had those two assists that led to the two goals, and it's just remarkable. They just will not give up. I talked the other day about a team with nine lives, maybe 12 lives. Maybe they have 15 lives now. I don't know. Meanwhile, England, still waiting. It has not won this thing in 60 years now. There's a lot of criticism that they kind of fell into their shell after they were ahead and tried to defend for too long. What's your sense of the reaction in England, the reaction to this loss? Well, everyone's a Monday morning quarterback, or in this case a Thursday morning midfielder, I don't know.

14:03But basically that is the main complaint, that England went into a prevent-defense style and it just was too much, too early and too much. And that's what Argentina was able to take advantage of, and they did. Now, there has been even reaction from the royal family today, Prince William issuing a statement. I'll read some of it here. He says, the fight and belief that you have shown has inspired us all. He says, hold your heads high. So the royal family still says they love the English football team. Well, and England, I think, it seems, fell in love with this team as well. So now, Steve, in the final, Argentina-Spain, the smart money, air quotes, maybe favors Spain, which has given up exactly one goal in this tournament.

14:52What do you think is going to be the key? Who is going to be the key? Well, there are two keys. One is Lionel Messi and what he can do with his magic that he has left. And the other key is the Spanish defense. That defense has been remarkable. They held Mbappe, Kylian Mbappe, arguably the greatest current player in the world today. I'm not talking about all time, but currently the best player in the world today. They held him scoreless. They frustrated him. Can they do the same thing with an elderly Lionel Messi? I think that's the key. That will be the battle. Obviously, Messi doesn't have to score goals.

15:28He can dribble the ball. He can pass it. If he can get somehow a goal in there, if they can take a 1-0 lead, that would be a huge key. But if Spain jumps out early to a 1-0 lead, that defense can be stifling, as France saw the other day. Yeah. Now, before that final is the bronze medal, third-place game. France, and you mentioned Kylian Mbappe against England with its superstar Jude Bellingham. They are teammates in their day jobs. As you know, they both play for Real Madrid. How's that going to go? Neither team wants to be in that game. Neither team is very excited by it. I don't think. I mean, I would be surprised if it turns out to be more than a typical third-place game, which is two teams that wish they weren't there, but they're going to play anyway.

16:15And we'll see if it turns into something special. Usually these third-place games are players playing on their heels, having maybe a bit more fun at times. But the intensity is rarely anything like the semifinals and, of course, the final on Sunday. Yeah. And Steve, you're in New York, I gather, for the finals coming up in the stadium in New Jersey. Is there a vibe there yet? I've not sensed it. I mean, the fans are coming in. Obviously, there's a large population, Spanish populations in New York City, a large Argentine population in New York City. but you're going to get the fans coming in from those two fan bases from Spain, from Argentina, today and tomorrow.

16:56It's going to be loaded with lots of red and lots of blue and white. Yeah, and Steve, you've sent us some sound that you have recorded. You've talked to fans from all over the place. You've got a few seconds. You've got a highlighter or two for us? I thought, I'll tell you one picture I loved yesterday, and I was not at the match yesterday, but there was this beautiful picture, sad picture, of a young man, I'd say maybe seven or eight years old. He had the English flag painted under each of his eyes, and he was just there, and tears were coming down. It was so innocent, so beautiful, and so realistic.

17:33That's how the English fans feel right now, epitomized by that young man. Yeah, yeah. Well, it means that much, right, for fans from everywhere, and you've been in the middle of it. reporter Steve Utterman. Enjoy the final Sunday at MetLife Stadium. Steve, thanks as always. Take care, Scott. No stoppage time on this podcast. That is it for the show today. Here at Now Anytime comes from NPR and WBUR Boston. Today's stories were produced by Sam Ravelson, Ashley Locke, and Jenna Griffiths. Our editors were Todd Bunt, Micaela Rodriguez, and Michael Scotto. Technical direction from Caleb Green and Matt Reed.

18:10Our theme music is by Mike Moschetto, Max Liebman, and me, Chris Bentley. Our digital producers are Alison Hagen and Grace Griffin. And here and now's executive producer is Alan Price. Thanks for listening. We'll be back with you tomorrow.

18:39Thank you.