Israel faces global outrage over West Bank violence

0:02Mairav Zonszein:WBUR Podcasts, Boston.

0:05Anthony Amore:Israel is fighting a war in the West Bank and trying to take over as much land as possible. And Trump hasn't put the brakes on any of it. Israeli settler violence against Palestinians is getting worse.

0:20Anthony Amore:It's Tuesday, September 8th, and this is Here and Now, Anytime from NPR and WBUR. I'm Chris Bentley.

0:30Anthony Amore:Today on the show, police hunt for two thieves who broke into the Renoir Museum on the French Riviera and stole paintings worth millions of dollars.

0:40Mairav Zonszein:People are always amazed when they say the theft was only three minutes or five minutes. Well, that's the typical theft. So you have to slow those thieves down.

0:47Anthony Amore:Also, William Shatner and his daughter Melanie open up about their cancer diagnoses and share how they confronted mortality together. That prognostication of you could die either sends you into a catatonic fit or you learn to appreciate the moments that you're alive. Before we get to that, though, the UK, France and Canada are blocking imports from Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank. That's after the latest wave of deadly violence against Palestinians by Jewish settlers and Israeli soldiers. British Foreign Secretary Ed Miliband said the settlers are carrying out ethnic cleansing. We will take action against specific companies and individuals who provide services, such as construction, infrastructure, financing, or real estate for settlement expansion.

1:38Anthony Amore:So to those who finance or facilitate illegal settlements, let me say this, you will face the full force of UK sanctions. My Rav Zanshine is with the International Crisis Group in Tel Aviv. She told Indira Lakshmanan, Israeli settlers have been attacking Palestinians for years, with the backing of the Israeli government and military. Palestinians are being attacked, their livelihoods are being restricted, some of them are being killed, some of them are being assaulted, in all types of ways across the West Bank, pretty much on a daily basis for the last few years. And in recent days, I think what's gotten more attention is the fact that there's just been even more cases of settler violence, in which case Israelis who live in the settlements are going out and attacking Palestinians.

2:25Anthony Amore:Sometimes it ends in casualties, sometimes in death. For example, two children, teenagers were killed, sometimes by soldiers, sometimes by settlers in the last week in the same village. But again, this is something that's become quite a systematic pattern. Well, some listeners may not realize that Israeli settlements in the West Bank are illegal under international law. But as you say, they've dramatically increased in recent years, especially since the October 7th, 2023 Hamas terror attacks. Violence by Jewish settlers against Palestinians in the West Bank has really surged. The UN reports that more than a thousand Palestinians have been hurt just this year during settler attacks.

3:06Anthony Amore:So tell us about what U.S. Ambassador to Israel Mike Huckabee said this weekend after meeting with Palestinian-Americans. Well, Huckabee was specifically referring to he went to a village that happens to have a lot of Palestinians with American citizenship called Turmus Aya, which has been the victim of many attacks over the last few years. And he called settlers who attack Palestinians in certain cases terrorists and said that they're a very small number. He was also referring to a case that has gotten a lot of attention in the village of Kusra, which is where a Palestinian also with American citizenship from Ohio owns a house that has been under siege by settlers and now is under siege by soldiers, basically a house that settlers wanted to take over.

3:51Anthony Amore:But he again is talking about it being a tiny minority when in fact this is something that is going on for a long time in many places and has state-sanctioned support. You write in a New York Times opinion piece that President Trump has not put any brakes on settler expansion. Explain what you mean. Israel is fighting a war in the West Bank and trying to take over as much land as possible. And Trump hasn't put the brakes on any of it, not on the settlement expansion, not on the military raids that have displaced Palestinians. And this government specifically that came into power just before October 7th came in with a very clear plan with certain ministers that are settlers themselves.

4:30Anthony Amore:of how to streamline, expedite, and take over more and more land for Jewish Israelis. And the only thing that Trump has done is to say, we do not support formal annexation, annexation being Israel applying sovereignty and law in occupied territory. But Israel has been doing that de facto for years and with extra vigor in the last few years. Well, we all heard U.S. Ambassador Huckabee over the weekend referring to these settlers inflicting violence as terrorists. Do you think that the U.S. is going to go beyond that and take any action now to force change in the West Bank and to go back to supporting a two-state solution, which has long been U.S.

5:12Anthony Amore:government policy over decades of both Republican and Democratic administrations? No, I don't think this administration is going to do that. I think it's the opposite, that they're going to give Israel more and more free reign in the West Bank and maybe put pressure in other areas like Gaza or Lebanon. And Huckabee's statements calling them terrorists, for certain Israelis, that might be very harsh to hear. But I think he's doing it as a kind of performance to make it look like the U.S. cares or is doing something about it. But in terms of action, they're not doing anything about it. And I don't expect a Trump administration, which has recognized Israel's annexation, for example, of the Golan Heights and East Jerusalem in his first term.

5:52Anthony Amore:I don't expect them to do anything about it in this term. All right. Well, the U.K. government today now says that the expansion of settlements is undermining a two-state solution between Israelis and Palestinians. A number of Western countries are banning imports from the West Bank, and some, like Britain, are even talking about sanctioning companies who work elsewhere in Israel. Do you think this will have an effect? So it makes a lot of sense. When exactly these sanctions will go into effect is unclear. And how effective it will be in stopping the current tornado of demolitions of Palestinian homes and the building of Israeli ones, as long as this government is in power, is yet to be seen.

6:32Anthony Amore:But I do think it's an important step because it's the baseline. You have to at least put a marker somewhere and say this is, we have to take action. And then that will create, I think, the kind of foundation for taking more action, especially after the Israeli election in late October, when you could have another very right wing government or even a new government that is quite right wing and that will continue with the kind of similar same policies. They will need to kind of draw a line. And so it's good that they're doing it now. Mayrov Zanshine is senior Israel analyst for the International Crisis Group.

7:05Anthony Amore:She's based in Tel Aviv. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you.

7:16Anthony Amore:Coming up next, Sacré Dieu, there's been another audacious art heist in Europe. We'll hear from an expert on art theft in just a minute.

7:31Anthony Amore:Two thieves broke into the Renoir Museum on the French Riviera this morning and made off with two irreplaceable paintings. They were so quick in their heist that they actually dropped two other works of art on their way out. For more, we called up Anthony Amore, an expert on art theft and author of the book The Rembrandt Heist. He told Indira Lakshmanon, this heist took place before dawn. Well, at 5.48 a.m., two thieves used some sort of power saw or electric knife and got into the museum,

8:04Mairav Zonszein:grabbed four of the dozen or so Renoir paintings in the museum and fled. This all happened in less than five minutes. Too late for the police response, which was quick. And their haste, probably because the frames weighed them down, they dropped two of the paintings in the garden, but made off with two very valuable, important masterworks by Renoir.

8:28Anthony Amore:So what are investigators doing right now before the trail goes cold?

8:33Mairav Zonszein:Well, the first thing they have to do is look for forensic evidence on site. So they're reviewing any CCTV. If there is any, I don't know if they have CCTV. They're looking for fingerprints for DNA. They'll also be pushing detectives in the area to squeeze their informants to see what's the buzz on the street because criminals will be talking about this and they should be looking at the possibility of an insider who might have provided some sort of information. 80 to 90 percent of museum heists worldwide involve inside complicity, so they have to look at staff as well.

9:10Anthony Amore:Anthony, what is the typical motivation for Art Museum Heist? Because it seems like it would be next to impossible to fence a stolen painting that is listed on every international database. You know, we have the impression that maybe these jobs are commissioned by rich people who want the thrill of having a work of art locked up where only they can see it. Is that reality or is that just a Hollywood image?

9:34Mairav Zonszein:That's a Hollywood image or something you'd read in a Daniel Silva novel. I can't think of an example where that's happened. And I have a database I maintain of 1500 art heists. 99 % of the time it's thieves think they can steal these items and having seen these Hollywood films think there are buyers for them. they soon find out that they're not, and the art goes into hiding, which is a worst-case scenario because it's far more difficult to locate a hidden object than it is to find something that someone's trying to fence.

10:08Anthony Amore:Well, I'm thinking about another Renoir painting that was among the artwork stolen from an Italian museum in Parma earlier this year. Of course, there was that audacious heist at the Louvre in Paris of Napoleonic crown jewels. None of those have been recovered. How often do art museum heists happen, and why have European museums become such a target of late?

10:30Mairav Zonszein:My best guess is because the Louvre theft just got everyone's attention. So we are seeing a spike, but it always happens, especially in Europe. I'm not exactly sure why it hasn't come to the United States yet. I'm just glad it hasn't.

10:46Anthony Amore:What can and should museums be doing, especially in Europe, where there's been such a spate of these heists, to better defend themselves.

10:54Mairav Zonszein:The easiest answer to a complicated question is making sure that there are multiple layers of security. Thieves shouldn't be able to penetrate one perimeter and compromise a collection. People are always amazed when they say the theft was only three minutes or five minutes. Well, that's the typical theft. So you have to slow those thieves down.

11:14Anthony Amore:That's Anthony Amore. He's an art theft expert and author of The Rembrandt Heist. Anthony, thank you so much.

11:20Mairav Zonszein:It's my pleasure.

11:28Anthony Amore:There's lots more news and conversations to listen to at hereandnow.org, by the way, including stories that might hit your own wallet, should you happen not to own any Renoirs. Like how Canada is sticking it to the Trump administration, slapping retaliatory taxes on American goods made in states with competitive Senate races. these retaliatory tariffs look carefully calibrated to go after some of these tight electoral races the great lakes region is going to bear the brunt of it so we've got states like ohio illinois michigan wisconsin um taking heavy uh being targeted pretty heavily also pennsylvania also texas where we have a tight race there as well the economic impacts nationally may not be be too significant.

12:13Anthony Amore:It only covers a small sliver of U.S. trade, but the economic impact in some of these districts could be quite substantial. You can listen to that whole conversation and a lot more at hereandnow.org. But coming up next, on the 60th anniversary of the premiere of Star Trek, 95-year-old William Shatner, aka Captain Kirk, talks to Robin Young about his recent battle with stage four melanoma, which he fought alongside his 61-year-old daughter, Melanie Shatner-Gretch, who was undergoing treatment for stage 4 breast cancer. What they learned about life in just a minute.

12:57Mairav Zonszein:Today, the iconic Star Trek celebrates its 60th birthday. William Shatner, one of the stars it launched, is now 95, but he was the ageless Captain Kirk on the Starship Enterprise, with arch enemies like the Klingons and the dreaded Gorn.

13:13Anthony Amore:I must fight to remember that this is an intelligent, highly advanced individual. The captain of a starship like myself. Undoubtedly, a dangerously clever opponent.

13:27Mairav Zonszein:Well, lucky us. William Shatner is with us today. But we're not going to talk about any of that. Except to say William Shatner had a very different battle recently. And while we think of Captain Kirk as a mortal, he was reminded none of us are. Bill and his daughter Melanie Shatner Gretsch both had stage 4 cancer at the same time. They beat it. They now have a podcast. So welcome, William Shatner.

13:51Anthony Amore:Thank you so much. And welcome to my lovely, intelligent, beautiful, funny.

14:00Mairav Zonszein:Hey, that's my line. But we are grateful you're both here or anywhere. Melanie, 61, you had breast cancer. Bill, yours was Malignant Melanoma. And your podcast together is No Time But Now?

14:13Anthony Amore:It's about cancer and the progress we're making about cancer and all. But it's also about No Time But Now to live. And all these wonderful people who have made a joyous way of living. Yeah. It's a hopeful, happy podcast.

14:28Mairav Zonszein:And Melanie, I want to just give us some context here because you said something to People Magazine. This was before your dad was diagnosed when you were having a really rough time battling your breast cancer. And it was in the middle of the night, a scary night, and you called him. Can you tell that story? Because we all know him as Captain Kirk and a talk show favorite. But here he played the role of dad. Can you just tell that story? I absolutely can. It's one of my favorite moments from that horrible time. But when I first saw my doctor, there was lots of, you're not dying from this. And then there was this moment when I had realized my stage had been increased and it was in my chest as well as my breast.

15:07Mairav Zonszein:And it was in one of those moments when I wanted to talk to my daddy. You know, I wanted to be five and to have like the fear taken away, like where your dad can come in and look under the bed and say, there's no monster there. Like, you know, like you just instantly feel better. And I called him. I woke him up. I was crying and I said, I'm afraid I'm dying. and on the phone I could hear the sheets making the noise of someone getting out of bed and I was like oh my god no no no I you know don't and he said no no I'm coming over and he drove from his house to mine and we met outside in the driveway yeah got out of his car he gave me one of those like a bear hug that only your dad can give you and I and he said this is going to be a blip in your life you are going to be fine and I took some of his strength to use to get through it Well, but I'm wondering if you were feeling that strength inside Bill Shatner, because, you know, we all know he was invincible, the invincible captain.

16:05Mairav Zonszein:But in that moment, your little girl has cancer. That must have been devastating.

16:09Anthony Amore:Well, I have three girls. They were all little a long time ago. But the ability to take away the fear lost its potency as the fears became more complex. But here, my daughter was saying, I'm afraid, I'm afraid. She gave me the ability to comfort her.