Minneapolis mayor calls for 'peace and order,' and ICE out of city

0:00Support for Here and Now Anytime comes from MathWorks, creator of Matlab and Simulink software for technical computing and model based design. MathWorks accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering engineering. Learn more at mathworks.com. WBWAR Podcasts. Boston. I dropped an F-bomb, and we had ice that killed somebody in our city. And as far as which is more inflammatory, I'd say to killing somebody. More federal troops may be bound for Minneapolis to suppress protests against ice. It's Monday, January 19th, and this is Here and Now, Anytime from NPR and WBUR. I'm Chris Bentley.

0:54Today on the show, who is on the board of peace that President Trump is assembling to oversee Gaza? Also, it's Martin Luther King Jr. Day, a chance to reflect on the legacy of a civil rights icon cut down in his prime. But in the decades since his death, MLK's words have been appropriated by all sorts of people to support their own views. Martin Luther King, who means something very specifically to people and who was very intentional about the things that he wrote and the volumes that he wrote, can be cherry-picked and serve whatever purpose is needed at the moment. That conversation, coming up in about 10 minutes.

1:39But first, there are echoes of the civil rights demonstrations of MLK's day in Minnesota, where some 1 ,500 active-duty soldiers from Alaska could be deployed against protesters who've been out in the streets since at least January 7th when an immigration agent shot and killed Renee Macklin Good. There are already thousands of federal agents in the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul, outnumbering local police several times over. A federal judge on Friday ordered ICE to rein in its use of force against protesters, citing a pattern of misconduct. But the federal government is not investigating officers who have arrested or pepper-sprayed peaceful demonstrators.

2:23Instead, the Justice Department says it's looking into Minnesota Governor Tim Walz and Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry for allegedly impeding immigration operations. Fry spoke today with Robin Young. To the church protest first. This was in St. Paul, not your city, but it's running on an endless loop on Fox TV, on social media. We see protesters, walking through pews, interrupting the sermon, calling parishioners privileged white people. Attorney General Pambandi has seized on this as an expansion of attacks against law enforcement, you know, ICE, to intimidation of Christians. You've told your constituents, don't take the bait.

3:03So your response to what's happened? Yeah, I can't speak for the church protest, and obviously it doesn't take place in Minneapolis. What I can say is in Minneapolis, We've had tens of thousands of peaceful people peacefully protesting. It's been extraordinary to see neighbors stand behind neighbors, people dropping off food, taking people that would otherwise be concerned about getting ripped away from their family to the grocery store. It's this incredible act over and over again of love that we're seeing in Minneapolis. And I got to tell you, I've never been prouder to be from here. Yeah, but I got to tell you that a lot of people don't make the distinction.

3:44You know, they're looking at this protest and it's unsettling to see people in the church. Do you have any comment for those protesters? It is unsettling. Again, I don't know as much about it simply because it didn't happen in Minneapolis. Granted, being in a church is a place that is sacred. Yeah. Here's what I would say. You know, certainly that is that is not the route that I would have taken individually to protest in a church. I don't know enough of the circumstances behind it again, so I don't want to comment on something that I'm not aware of. OK, well, let's get to the reports of a DOJ investigation of you and Governor Walz.

4:24The DOJ alleging that you and the governor committed conspiracy to impede federal immigration agents. First of all, the question you continually asked, have you received a subpoena? We have not received a subpoena at all. We have not received anything. And if those reports turn out to be true and the governor and I are the focus of some form of investigation, that would be yet another disturbing and unconstitutional development. And perhaps the most problematic is that targeting itself would be the product of performing one of the most basic duties of the mayor, which is speaking on behalf of my constituents, of the people that I am charged with representing.

5:06And that kind of infringement on freedom of speech and retaliation against public servants around the country and locations that simply didn't vote for the president of the United States should not just be concerning to Minneapolis, but for everybody throughout the whole country. Well, and you've been asked this as well. And we know that when you dropped the F-bomb, it was an emotional response to finding out that a woman had been killed. But do you regret that? I don't. No. Moments before I went out there for that press conference, I had seen the video of what took place. Seconds before I went out there, I learned that Kristi Noem had just stated that the officer was purely acting in self-defense.

5:53And just a little while later, she called the victim a domestic terrorist. And so our constituents need people to stand up for them. We need voices that are simply telling the truth. And so do I regret it? No. And as far as the inflammatory nature, I dropped an F-bomb and we had ice that killed somebody in our city. And as far as which is more inflammatory, I'd say the killing somebody. What do you worry about going forward? 1 ,500 active duty soldiers waiting for a possible deployment to Minnesota. You just have 600 police officers, about 3 ,000 ICE agents, many of whom are also like the active duty soldiers, you know, people who've seen combat, combat veterans.

6:37Very different from a lot of the National Guardsmen now, although we know that the National Guard also serves in combat. But what do you worry about with a lot of armed officers potentially in your city? We don't need more escalation. We do not need more armed troops. We do not need more of an invasion or an occupation or whatever you want to call it. If the goal here is peace and order, then there's a very easy antidote to achieve, which is for ICE and the troops and anyone else to leave. Well, but let me ask you something. Let me ask you something, because we only have a minute here. Some would say one of the solutions was put forward by Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem.

7:18What about creating a safe zone for protesters? Or did you ever think of, I mean, if those troops come in, and you've only got a minute here, but we'll be back with you, I hope, at some point. Did you ever think of telling your residents, it's too dangerous, stay home? Well, first off, a safe zone. I thought the country of America was a safe zone where you could express your First Amendment rights. And I mean, if I were to tell our protesters here, the people of Minneapolis, hey, guys, you're just going to protest in one single park. I just it would not work. That is comical. And that's not how the First Amendment works in the United States of America.

8:00You don't get to say, hey, only go to this little tiny section. That's where you could say whatever you want to say. But the rest of the country. No, you just got to. I don't know. Shut your mouth. That's not how the First Amendment works. So, no, it's ridiculous. Of course, that wouldn't work. And by the way, people of Minneapolis are protesting peacefully. I can comment on what's happening in Minneapolis. I'm the mayor of Minneapolis. And, you know, where people have protested peacefully, I stand by them. And by the way, where they haven't, where they haven't, to be very clear, there have been consequences.

8:26People have been arrested and we don't tolerate it. Okay. Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry, thank you again so much. A lot going on and thank you. Thank you so much.

8:41coming up next we're getting some more information but not a whole lot to be perfectly honest about the board of peace chaired by president trump that will oversee the reconstruction of gaza more after the break Thank you.

9:26and your budget. And they work for you for free. Get the right life insurance for you and save more than 50 % at selectquote.com slash anytime. That's 50 % off at selectquote.com slash anytime. Who is in charge of rebuilding Gaza after its devastation at the hands of the Israeli military? Today, the Kremlin said Russian President Vladimir Putin had been invited to join the Board of Peace set up by the Trump administration. Trump sent board invitations to many other heads of state, reportedly including Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. But securing a permanent board seat will cost a billion dollars apiece.

10:10The Guardian's Julian Borger has more on that. Here's his conversation with Indira Lakshmanan. So who is deciding on the qualifications to join this board, and who gets the$1 billion fee for each seat? Well, yeah, those are good questions. It's clearly Donald Trump who's deciding who gets to join. The charter that they have produced for this board only names one individual, and that's Donald Trump as chairman. And the charter is very much built around giving him more or less absolute control and power in this new organization. Now, where the billion goes to is unclear. It doesn't say in the charter.

10:57So it's unclear whether it will be a sort of piggy bank for the board or go to some Trump-affiliated other organization. That's not clear. Well, there's no mention of Gaza in the draft of the charter, which includes details for the proposed board. You've seen this. What does it say and what's the intended agenda? Yes, absolutely. The UN Security Council endorsed the idea of a board for peace because they thought, the voting members thought it was going to be about Gaza. But now that the board has been created, there is not a signal mention of Gaza. And it's very broad, very vague. It talks about

11:41establishing stability, restoring dependable and lawful governance, and enduring peace. It doesn't say how it goes about it. Obviously, by calling itself a charter, it invites comparison to the UN charter. But the UN charter imagines relations between states based on basic principles like territorial integrity, sovereignty, non-aggression. There's none of that in this charter. It is very much about how it will be organized and the control that the chairman will have over proceedings. But when it comes to how it would go about bringing peace around the world, it has nothing much to say. Well, you know, you make the point that it has some parallels here to a UN Security Council, and some have said that Donald Trump is trying to replace the UN Security Council with his own Security Council.

12:39Would the United Nations allow that or what power do they have to stop it? Well, the power really rests in the individual countries. And so the question is, who's going to sign up for this? So far, the only one that has come back very enthusiastically has been Lukashenko, the dictator in Belarus. Even Putin has demurred saying they're going to look at the nuances, it puts all these countries in a very difficult position because the law and the game in geopolitics over the last year is to try and stay on the right side of Trump, try and flatter. And the question is now, who is going to put a billion dollars behind that to stay on the right side of Trump?

13:28or, for example, are the European states going to band together and say, no, we're not going to credit this, we're not going to take part. That has really been the dilemma for most UN member states over the past year. Now this Board of Peace has really crystallized that dilemma into a hard choice. Do you join or do you not? Right. Okay, Julian, we have less than a minute left. Israel has objected to Turkey and Qatar. being on this board because Israel accuses those states of being primary backers of Hamas. Does Israel have veto power here? Well, again, that's very much about the personal relationships between Benjamin Netanyahu and Donald Trump.

14:13It's a very personalized form of global governance that's been brought forward here. And so it'll be about, as it has been for the past year, who gets Trump's ear. Is it going to be Israel or is it going to be Turkey and Qatar and the rest of the Gulf? You know, these are the hard questions that still haven't been answered since the Trump plan for a ceasefire came into view. Julian Borger, senior correspondent for The Guardian, thanks so much for joining us.

14:53we've got one more story for you on today's show on the 40th martin luther king jr day robin young considers the conservatives who'd like to remove mlk day as a national holiday altogether we'll be right back

15:13Today's Martin Luther King Jr. national holiday would be a perfect day to explore a national park for free. Maybe pick up some trash as you go to make up for doge cuts and do some service in MLK's honor. Except for the first time since 2011, Martin Luther King Jr. Day is no longer on the list of national park free admission days. And while removing MLK Day and Juneteenth, in November the Trump administration created another free entry day, Donald Trump's birthday, June 14th. Removing MLK Day in this way is just a part of an effort to remove the day entirely. The late Charlie Kirk, who, like MLK, was gunned down, stunned people outside the conservative media world who'd never heard these words when he spoke at a convention organized by his group Turning Point USA and said Martin Luther King Jr.

16:00was awful and not a good person. He also said this on his podcast in January 2024. But I can say declaratively, this guy is not worthy of a national holiday. He is not worthy of godlike status. In fact, I think it's really harmful. Now, this is a tender topic. These are tender words to hear on a day when millions are gathering at prayer breakfasts and in acts of service to honor the icon of the civil rights movement. But maybe it's even more important on this day of all days to note attempts to take this day away or to misuse MLK's message. Andrew Lawrence wrote about this for The Guardian, where he's a senior writer based in Atlanta.

16:34And Andrew, I'm not sure what the proper greeting is, but I would say happy MLK Day. Oh, that's still proper around here. It still gets flown around quite a bit in his hometown, for sure. With fingers crossed. Well, let's remind people as if they need reminding, probably don't, but there's a particular part of his I Have a Dream speech that has been seized upon by conservatives as well as by Reagan, who wanted to make sure that this was the part of Dr. King's speech that was remembered, that he spoke of a world that was colorblind, as they interpreted it. Let's listen to a little of the tape from the speech.

17:08I have a dream.

17:12My poor little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. I have a dream. Okay, will not be judged by the color of their skin. Andrew Lawrence, that's the line that Reagan wanted to make sure people remembered this idea of a colorblind America, a vision of America with the individual capacity to pull yourself up from your bootstraps. Give us some other examples of how you've seen this. You know, you have like Vivek Ramaswamy talking, using King's words to make the case for dismantling critical race theory and DEI initiatives.

17:55or Nikki Haley, the former South Carolina governor who was slow to concede the Civil War's origins in slavery, talking about how she was inspired by Dr. King. Steve Scalise, who voted against the Civil Rights Act, talking about how much King's words mean to him and resonate in his own life. So it's just like, you know, he's become an easy mascot to sort of sell a version of American conservative politics. Well, so much so that people might have been blindsided by the sudden push by the Trump administration against higher education. But we know that that was driven by a man named Christopher Ruffo, a conservative activist.

18:46He was behind, as you write, the purging of the Harvard president, Claudine Gay. but he regularly cites Martin Luther King's colorblindness in going against any kind of race-conscious policies. Martin Luther King has been appropriated. Entirely. I mean, the irony of the passage about his children being judged by the content of their character is like his children are currently online getting bullied by conservatives who believe that they are misquoting their own father out of context. So it's just this sort of world that we're living in now where Martin Luther King, who means something very specifically to people and who is very intentional about the things that he wrote and the volumes that he wrote, can be cherry-picked and serve whatever purpose is needed at the moment.

19:42You mentioned the children, Bernice King. You include one of her social media posts, Dear Politicians, Political Influencers. When you evoke my father this MLK Day, that was in 2024, remember that he was resolute about eradicating racism, poverty, and militarism, and about corrective justice work. Don't just quote him. Encourage and enact policies that reflect his teachings. You have found so many examples. The conservative Glenn Beck brought up King's name, defending the TV chef Paula Deen for using the N-word. And you point out his own monument in D.C. misquoted him when it first opened in 2011.

20:18Where do you think this is going? Well, we've seen already where it's going, where you've had, now you have AI tools that are using King's actual likeness and sort of in ways that are, you know, disrespectful and just sort of a more visual appropriation of his legacy and his standing in American life. While open AI has shut down people's ability to do this at the request of the family, I feel like as technology sort of improves and expands, the ways and means that King's legacy gets appropriated only grows from that. Well, you note the campaign Reclaim MLK, which is trying to reassert Martin Luther King Jr.'s true legacy.

21:06There is that, but maybe on this day we read his words ourselves to remind us Andrew Lawrence, again, writing for The Guardian on this movement to co-opt and degrade Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Andrew, thank you so much. Thank you.

21:30And on this MLK Day, we also talked to John Conyers III, whose father fought to create the holiday in the 1980s. He says the holiday is still relevant today, and in some ways MLK's legacy is more radical than ever. The reason why Dr. King is still somewhat controversial, right, and his legacy is often flattened to I have a dream and not the contents of that dream is because there is a reticence by most folks in this country who are not people of color to confront the history and really grapple with the history that has enabled the vast wealth that we've accumulated. If you want to hear that whole conversation with John Conyers III, you can hear it right now at hereandnow.org.

22:27But that'll do it for this podcast today. Here and Now Anytime comes from NPR and WBUR Boston. Today's stories were produced by Karen Miller-Medzen, Hafsa Qureshi, and Sam Rapelson. Today's editors were Todd Munt, Mikaela Rodriguez, and Kat Welch. technical direction from Andre Peralta and Matt Reed. I wrote the theme music along with Mike Moschetto and Max Liebman. Our digital producers are Alison Hagen and Grace Griffin. And here and now's executive producer is Alan Price. Thanks for listening. We'll be back with you tomorrow.