Traffic stops, body cameras and the fight to hold ICE accountable

0:00Anabela Bonada:Support for Here and Now Anytime comes from MathWorks, creator of MATLAB and Simulink software, to design and develop engineered systems, accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science. Learn more at mathworks.com. WBUR Podcasts, Boston. There is an attempt to cover up currently taking place. And that attempt to cover up is something that ICE has perpetrated in other cases. Texas Democrat Al Green is among the congressmen demanding investigations after immigration officers killed two people in Texas and Maine.

0:47Anabela Bonada:it's monday july 20th and this is here and now anytime from npr and wb war i'm chris bentley

0:56Anabela Bonada:today on the show it was another weekend of wildfire smoke choking americans across the Midwest and East Coast. I hate to say it, but could smoky summers be the new normal? Also, how AI helped soccer coaches during the World Cup.

1:14John Sandweg:All the teams had information from Lenovo about different plays. And what's nice about this is not just that it helps one team, but it helped all the teams equally.

1:24Anabela Bonada:Before we get to that story, though, should ICE officers wear body cameras? That's one question the man overseeing immigration enforcement, is being asked after ICE officers shot and killed two people earlier this month, one in Houston, the other in Biddeford, Maine. Here's President Trump's border czar Tom Homan on Fox News yesterday. I want officers to wear body cameras because I want the American people to see what the officers saw when they took that action. Homan is being asked about a lot more than body cameras, though. For one thing, NPR spoke with people close to the ICE agent who shot Joanne Sebastian Duran Guerrero in Maine.

2:03Anabela Bonada:They described the officer as a violent person struggling with mental health who never should have had a gun. Duran Guerrero's widow, Carolina Rojas, said last week she could not bring herself to tell their three-year-old daughter that her father is gone.

2:22John Sandweg:Now, my daughter asks about her dad, and I don't have the strength to tell her that dad won't come back, that she will no longer be able to hug him and tell him, dad, I love you.

2:34Anabela Bonada:Every night she asks about him. We wanted to ask someone who knows the agency about ICE conduct. So we called up John Sandweg. He was acting director of ICE from 2013 to 2014 under former President Obama. Here's his conversation with Indira Lakshmanan. So Tom Homan referred to the body cameras. We understand that, you know, the officers were supposed to be wearing those. The agency got millions of dollars from Congress for body cameras. Why are they still not wearing them? You know, Indira, it's hard to say. I mean, obviously, the administration is kind of pointing the finger at the government shutdown here.

3:13Anabela Bonada:But the reality is, as you know, the agency's really never been more flush with cash. Not only were they appropriated money directly for the body cameras, but also these tens of billions of dollars just generally for immigration enforcement where they were likely accessible as well for body cameras. So I think it's just it's hard to look at this and think of it anything other than it just wasn't a priority. You know, historically, as these body cameras have been deployed, law enforcement agencies have found that the officers support it. I don't think the administration is necessarily opposed to the deployment of them.

3:44Anabela Bonada:It just, again, it clearly wasn't much of a priority for them, though. All right. An analysis by the Associated Press finds that at least nine people have died during immigration enforcement operations since Trump returned to the White House. Democratic senators are now demanding immediate, independent, transparent investigations after the most recent ICE shootings. But Republicans control both houses of Congress. So will we see those investigations? It's hard to understand how we're going to see that, right? There's so much suspicion and distrust, obviously, of DHS, obviously, of ICE, but also, you know, of all government institutions right now.

4:21Anabela Bonada:Historically, Indira, every time there's been a use of force investigation, there are always questions and concerns about whether or not there would be a transparent investigation. Typically, of course, the federal government wants to control those investigations. And you see some jostling historically between which investigative agency would be lead. But ultimately, the findings of any investigators flow to the Department of Justice. And I think just by virtue of that fact, whether it's FBI agents or DHS inspector general or ICE itself conducting these investigations, the simple reality is that whatever they find or whatever recommendations that they make go to federal prosecutors at the Department of Justice.

4:57Anabela Bonada:And I worry that just for that reason alone, there will never be a circumstance where there's an investigation, you know, one way or the other, that's going to give people the kind of comfort that this was fully and fairly investigated. All right. Well, these latest two killings in Maine and Texas have brought this back into the spotlight, but they're on top of the fatal encounters where two American citizens were killed in Minneapolis back in January. Now Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem is out. Her successor, Mark Wayne Mullen, promised to do better. So I think the central question is why has there been no accountability yet for deaths at the hands of ICE officers?

5:40Anabela Bonada:You know, Indira, I will give Secretary Mullen initially some credit here, right? I think he was trying to solve the problem when he ordered the stoppage of traffic stops. I think in many ways. I mean, every one of these cases needs to be investigated. it. And the findings of those investigations will lead us to why this is happening. But there's no question, a major part of the problem is how this administration is deploying these ICE agents, deploying them in a way that's calling on them to do things that are not part of their typical training, that are certainly not part of their experience levels.

6:10Anabela Bonada:And nothing stands out to me more than these vehicular stops. Historically, these have not been a major part of ICE operations. And really, over the last eight years, the vast, vast majority of ICE arrests have been just picking up people who are already in somebody else's custody, primarily the border patrol or state and local law enforcement picking up people in prisons and jails. This administration, though, in part because the border numbers have dropped to near zero, and as part of this mass deportation effort, has really shifted all these officers to do all this at-large operations, and especially we're seeing all these vehicular stops.

6:42Anabela Bonada:That, because it's one of the most dangerous things law enforcement can do, because it's not a core part of how ICE has historically done business, or their training. We see these officers now put in circumstances where they're resorting to use of force because they're in fear that they're in danger. I think Secretary Mullen, Trump's hand-picked ice director, recognized this, ordered it shut down. Unfortunately, for reasons that are unclear to me, the president overruled him on that decision. All right, well, so training is obviously a problem. Briefly, in the short time we have left, there are questions about the use of unmarked cars in fatal traffic stops.

7:14Anabela Bonada:Borders Are Home and defended the use of unmarked cars on CBS Face the Nation yesterday. We'll see when the investigation plays out, but they would be alive today if they simply complied with a vehicle stop by federal law enforcement.

7:28John Sandweg:Just comply.

7:29Anabela Bonada:All right. Real briefly, critics say the problem with unmarked cars is people don't know if they're being pursued by a criminal who's trying to rob them. If someone's wearing a mask in an unmarked car, are we supposed to just pull over for them? We have 30 seconds left. Indira, I think anybody who's involved in law enforcement will tell you that the unmarked cars only make it more dangerous. Listen, Tom is now towing the company line. I think Tom was initially defensive of the pause. I wish the president listened to his handpicked advisors. We have a problem. Unmarked cars are certainly part of it.

7:57Anabela Bonada:ICE agents doing traffic stops are part of it. Thank you, John Sandweg, former ICE acting director. Thank you so much. My pleasure. Coming up next, the air is hard to breathe in much of the country again today, as smoke from wildfires blankets cities that are not used to air quality alerts. Unfortunately, they might have to start getting used to it, as climate change makes prolonged wildfires more common. More on that in just a minute.

8:36Anabela Bonada:the air quality index where i am in chicago is 118 right now unhealthy and obviously so from the hazy somewhat acrid air outside that's a lot better than it was last week however and better than parts of Wisconsin, Michigan, and Oregon today, which are choking on wildfire smoke. Clear skies are not in the forecast for some time. And more generally, we might have to get used to more smoky summers. So says Annabella Bonata at the University of Waterloo's Intact Center on Climate Adaptation in Ontario. She spoke to Scott Tong.

9:16John Sandweg:So today in Canada, about About 200 fires or so are burning out of control, according to the Canadian Interagency Fire Center, many in Ontario and the Northwest Territories. Do we know what's starting these fires? Is it lightning in many cases?

9:31Anabela Bonada:Yeah, it's usually about 50 and 50. So 50 percent started by lightning and 50 percent human caused, which can be accidental or, you know, train tracks like a train spark or something. With these ones, the really big ones that we're seeing in, for example, northwestern Ontario, these are being caused by lightning. So it's in far regions of the boreal. And so when lightning strikes and ignites vegetation, hot, dry, windy days help spread those flames and make them bigger. And these are just the ones that become so massive because of that.

9:59John Sandweg:And in these boreal forests, how important is location? I gather many large wildfires now are burning in very remote parts of Canada.

10:08Anabela Bonada:You know, super important. So, you know, one thing to remember is that wildfire is a natural process for the boreal and many of our forests in Canada. So we needed in order to regenerate the forest and have healthy forests. However, with some of the impacts that we're seeing when the wildfire starts that far away, it's so remote and in such a large area. They're not really meant to be put out, but they're becoming too big. And so having other impacts, such as the wildfire smoke that we're seeing travel thousands of kilometers.

10:36John Sandweg:I see. So not meant to be put out, kind of part of a cycle, as you're describing. But is it also, realistically speaking, it's very hard to get many firefighters there in a hurry. And that's just the reality also?

10:49Anabela Bonada:Yeah. But also, even then, if we got all the firefighters, they really couldn't put out these kind of massive wildfires. And what we do in Canada and across the globe is prioritize areas where communities are at high risk. And that's where we send all of our resources to make sure that we protect people and critical infrastructure.

11:08John Sandweg:Annabella, how do you think about the role of climate change? As you know, there's a new report from the National Academies in the U.S. finding that it is very likely that climate change has increased the chances of extreme fire weather, according to this report.

11:21Anabela Bonada:Yeah, absolutely. So climate change is having a direct contribution. There are several things that lead to more wildfire, but what climate change is doing is drying out vegetation quicker. It's extending the wildfire season and it's producing more of those hot, dry, windy days that we talked about. And some wildfires, for example, in 2023, we had major ones in Quebec. Scientists found that those wildfires were two to four times more likely due to climate change.

11:49John Sandweg:Wow. Now, here in the U.S., as you may have heard, some Republican lawmakers are criticizing Canadian management here. The Canadian prime minister, Mark Carney, notes that the United States and other countries have a responsibility on climate policy. Now, that is not your lane, but can I ask about U.S.-Canada cooperation on forecasting, predicting response? In what areas are the two countries working together?

12:14Anabela Bonada:We actually have a really excellent relationship when it comes to wildfire. So what we do is share resources. We're at our highest level of preparedness, as we call it in the country, number five. We call on the U.S. to come and help. And the U.S. does the same with us. So in the January 2025 wildfires in Los Angeles, we sent people down from British Columbia, Alberta, and we happily do so. And of course, we share projections. We also share any information on where wildfires are starting and where they might go. So we've had wildfires, for example, jump the border from the U.S. to Canada. So we have a really tight relationship, and it's very good when it comes to wildfire.

12:56John Sandweg:How do you think about how the Canadian government has been prepared for these fires? Well prepared, not so well prepared?

13:02Anabela Bonada:I would say we fall somewhere in the middle. Our welfare seasons have gotten worse and worse over the past few years. 2023 was kind of a marker of the absolute worst that we've had so far. And what government does in those times, they respond by providing more funding, providing more programs. So we kind of react to the problem and we're really good at that and we're good at protecting Canadians. But then we need that sustained funding in order to work more on the preparedness front, whether it's more forest management or preparing homes and communities to reduce their risk of wildfire.

13:35John Sandweg:So in the U.S., and we should note that there are a number of wildfires burning in Minnesota, but in the U.S., especially in the Great Lakes and the Northeast where we've been experiencing this smoke, should Americans expect more smoky summer days, weeks going forward?

13:53Anabela Bonada:Yeah, absolutely. I'm not sure about what this summer will look like, but I would expect that the next few summers will be very similar. We've had these wildfire smokes travel thousands of kilometers since 2023. We've been affected every single summer until now. So unless we all, as a globe and Canada and the U.S., do something to better reduce our greenhouse gas emissions, to slow down the impacts of climate change, we can expect to have these smoky, hazy summers that have a real effect on our health.

14:20John Sandweg:That's Annabella Bonata, Managing Director for Climate Science at the University of Waterloo in Ontario, Canada. Professor, thanks so much.

14:28Anabela Bonada:Thanks for having me.

14:32Anabela Bonada:Coming up, Spain won its second World Cup yesterday. Another winner from the tournament, AI companies that got to test their latest tech with FIFA. Scott has more on that in just a minute.

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15:25John Sandweg:New technology debuted this year at the World Cup. You may have caught the ref cam, the footage captured by the referee in the field. That was assisted by artificial intelligence. And there are other AI moments to discuss with Ina Fried, Chief Technology Correspondent at Axios. Hi, Ina. Hey, Scott. You told us last year how AI was changing the Olympics, assisting the judges and the athletes. What about this year's referee cam in the World Cup? How was that AI assisted? So certainly it's been possible for a long time to, say, mount a GoPro on a person. And we've seen that in some areas. One of the challenges in general, the footage is pretty unwatchable because it's a human being moving up and down and around.

16:09John Sandweg:and so usually what you have is that heavily edited after the fact. This time around, they were able to use AI to stabilize it so you could get pretty near real-time replays of what that play looked like because the AI was helping smooth things out. I have to say that I enjoyed the RevCam myself, just kind of new perspective on some of the replays. A lot of this technology, as you write in your recent article, is from Lenovo, commercial sponsor at the World Cup. So how does Lenovo use this as a business opportunity? I don't imagine its corporate clients need a ref cam. They don't, but they are all trying to figure out how do we make these huge investments pay off?