Trump's tirade against Somali immigrants

0:00Support for WBUR comes from Is Business Broken? a podcast from the Mehrotra Institute at Boston University that explores questions like, why is innovation in healthcare so hard? Is ESG just greenwashing? And of course, is business broken? Listen wherever you get your podcasts. WBUR Podcasts, Boston. To take a whole group of people, a whole country of people, and denigrate just based on where they come from. And somehow we found ourselves to a place where that doesn't surprise any of us. The mayor of St. Paul, Minnesota, they're defending Somali-Americans after a xenophobic tirade from President Trump.

0:57It's Wednesday, December 3rd, and this is Here and Now, anytime from NVR and WVWR. I'm Chris Bentley.

1:06Today on the show, peace talks between the U.S. and Russia ended without a breakthrough. What's next in the efforts to end the war in Ukraine? This is what the Ukrainians say. We are fighting for Europe. We are the front line. If Putin gets through us, you're next. And so that's why the Ukrainians want to work with the Europeans. And the Ukrainians keep saying you cannot make a peace deal with Putin. He does not want to stop. Also, billionaires Michael and Susan Dell said they'll put$250 into investment accounts for about 25 million American kids. These accounts can be used when the child turns 18.

1:45It becomes like an IRA. They can use it for education, for starting a business, for buying a home, for starting a family, for continued savings. But first, President Trump said he does not want Somali people in the United States. At the end of a televised cabinet meeting yesterday, he ranted about immigrants, singling out Somalis just as federal immigration agents reportedly step up raids in Minnesota, home to the country's largest Somali community. Whether or not they're American citizens, the president said Somalis contribute nothing and insulted Minnesota Congresswoman Ilhan Omar. So we say, oh, that's not politically correct.

2:30I don't care. I don't want them in our country. Their country is no good for a reason. Their country stinks. And we don't want them in our country. I could say that about other countries, too. We're going to go the wrong way if we keep taking in garbage into our country. Ilhan Omar is garbage. She's garbage. Her friends are garbage. These are people that work. These are people that say, let's go. Come on, let's make this place great. These are people that do nothing but complain. For more, we called up Madison McVann with the Minnesota Reformer. She spoke to Peter O'Dowd. We just heard the president's words.

3:06Here's St. Paul Mayor Melvin Carter at a press conference yesterday in response. We saw, sadly, the president of the United States open his mouth to take a whole group of people, a whole country of people and denigrate just based on where they come from. And somehow we found ourselves to a place where that doesn't surprise any of us. So we should say Minnesota has one of the largest communities of Somalis in the country. Does what we just heard from the mayor kind of sum up how the community is feeling right now? Yeah, certainly. What we're hearing so far is that folks are just fearful of what this means for them.

3:45It's hard to get numbers on, you know, the exact immigration status of, you know, certain population groups. But we do know that the majority of Somali people in Minnesota are here legally and a large percentage are citizens. So I think they're concerned about what this means for them, you know, as people with legal status as well. The president made this comment yesterday at a cabinet meeting. It kind of came out of nowhere. Do we know why the president's rhetoric all of a sudden just escalated against the Somali community in Minnesota? I mean, is that clear? Yeah, we do know why. I mean, this story goes back several years, dating back to fraud in a pandemic-era government program that's been covered intensively by local media.

4:32A couple of weeks ago, a conservative magazine published an article claiming that Minnesota taxpayers are the largest funder of Al-Shabaab, which is a terrorist organization in Somalia. There's very little evidence to back up that claim, but the authors of this article are the same ones who got Republicans fired up about critical race theory a couple years ago. So it quickly got the attention of the president, drew his attention to the fraud in Minnesota and his targeting of Somali immigrants. I'd like you to tell us a little bit more about this fraud scandal that has swept up some folks in Minnesota.

5:10The federal prosecutors have charged dozens of people with felonies, and the allegations is that they stole more than a billion dollars from a government program that was meant to keep children fed during the pandemic. Many of those involved were part of the Somali community. So what do we know as a matter of fact about that investigation? Right. So you're correct. Dozens of people have been charged. This program is what we refer to this trial as the Feeding Our Future trial. Feeding Our Future is one of the nonprofits that has been charged with fraud. The government program was meant to feed kids during the pandemic.

5:49And essentially, people started setting up fake businesses and nonprofits. They claimed to feed kids, but then they didn't actually feed them. And instead, they pocketed the money. We know that money was spent on things like cars, jewelry, vacations, property in Kenya. And in the United States. But no one has been charged with terrorism financing, although, you know, the U.S. Attorney's Office in Minnesota has charged people with that before. So to our knowledge, based on what's come out at trial so far, that has not been the case. I see. So at the same time that the president has made these comments, there are reports that ICE operations will target Somali immigrants in the Twin Cities later this week.

6:33What are you hearing about that? Yeah, I mean, there's still a lot we don't know. The reports came out yesterday morning and local leaders and community organizers are still scrambling to find out what exactly this will look like. We know that around 100 ICE agents will be deployed out here, you know, with the goal of targeting the Somali community. You know, most of the Somali people in Minnesota live in Minneapolis, so we suspect that's where we'll see people or where we'll see operations. But we just don't have confirmation yet of what exactly it'll look like. What have we heard from Congresswoman Ilhan Omar?

7:11She was a direct target in the comments yesterday from the president. Right. She said something on Twitter pretty shortly after basically saying that she hopes the president seeks help. She's been a frequent target of his, you know, as a Somali woman in Congress. You know, he's, you know, frequently called for her to be deported. you know she's a citizen she does represent the area of Minneapolis that's home to Somali immigrants so it's kind of seen as a representative of that community in Congress for sure. Madison McVean a reporter with the Minnesota Reformer thank you. Thank you.

8:04Coming up next, talks in Europe about the fate of Ukraine have hit the doldrums. More after the break.

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9:06There will be no meeting between Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, Jared Kushner, and Steve Witkoff. The trio and their diplomatic teams were supposed to meet in Brussels as the U.S. negotiators flew back from talks in Moscow. But their flight path will no longer touch down in Belgium. Meanwhile, in remarks earlier today, Russian President Vladimir Putin said Russia was ready to fight, quote, if Europe suddenly wants to start a war with us. Scott Tong checked in earlier today with NPR's Eleanor Beardsley in Ukraine's capital, Kiev. What do we know about the meeting between Putin and the Americans, Whitcoff and Kushner, what the sticking points are?

9:49Well, I don't think Putin was with the delegation the whole time. We don't know exactly what was in the document, but actually the Ukrainian-Russian sides are very far apart. And we never, in Ukraine, no one really thought Putin was going to sign this deal. So while they didn't take it to the next step, they both used words like constructive and productive. But the big takeaway yesterday was that what Russian President Vladimir Putin said, first First of all, he said the Europeans had changed the draft to make it unacceptable to the Russians so they could blame it on Moscow when the deal failed, because he does not want the Trump administration to blame him for no peace.

10:27So that was the big takeaway from yesterday. Yeah, yeah. I mean, two sides being far apart, how? Is this still about territory? Oh, it's so deep. Look, Putin has not changed any of his maximalist demands, not from day one. And the Ukrainians, for example, he's asking Ukrainians to leave the territory. He's talking about Ukraine. He's talking about cities of people who want to live under Ukraine that they've been protecting for four years. He wants them just to walk away and say, well, now you're under the Russian control. That's out of the question. And for Ukraine, they want security guarantees.

11:03They've got nothing on that. There's just, there's no, there's no common points. The sides are just too far apart right now. You mentioned Putin's response to this or trying to either escape blame or place blame on the Europeans for trying to stick it on him. How was all this now being received in Brussels, in Kiev? Well, I can tell you, I wasn't in Brussels, but I was watching a lot of French TV last night. And when Putin said that he didn't look for war with the Europeans, but he was ready for it, and he said this, quote, And it's not going to be the kind of surgical operation that we have going on in Ukraine.

11:42I mean, the news channels there just blew up. It was the top of the news. I think the Europeans, they're panicked. They talk about war now all the time, building their armies. But they're also determined to support Ukraine. So that's the way it's being seen there. It's really, really taking a huge place now in society. They're reinstating military service in France, and Germany's overhauling its whole military. In Ukraine, it was like ho-hum. We never thought anybody was going to sign this deal anyway. I don't even think people were watching last night because they knew what was going to happen.

12:12Yeah, yeah. And we should note, Eleanor, we're hearing some generators in the background because there are power blackouts by you. So just you're yelling. No, we can hear you fine. Just thanks for this. Putin, for his part, not only accused European leaders of undercutting this process, he said Russia is prepared to fight a war with Europe if Russia were attacked. What is that about? That's what they're debating on all the news channels across Europe, and the leaders are hunkering down. And this is what the Ukrainians say. We are fighting for Europe. We are the front line. If Putin gets through us, you're next.

12:52And so that's why the Ukrainians want to work with the Europeans, and the Ukrainians keep saying you cannot make a peace deal with Putin. He does not want to stop. He's still bombing. I mean, every other night there's, you know, missile attacks here. People come out the next day, clean up, count the dead, and go forward. They've put up Christmas decorations. There's an amazing resilience here, but they can't just hold on forever. And the Europeans are slowly starting to realize that, yeah, perhaps Putin could. I mean, he's probably not going to go to Paris, but he could maybe invade one of the Baltics or Moldova.

13:20So the Ukrainians want to work with the Europeans, but nobody really knows what that means yet. Yeah, wow. It struck me what you just said, Eleanor, that people trying to go about their lives as people are dying regular attacks. I mean, how exhausted are you or the people in Ukraine right now? Almost four years on. I mean, I can't say a thing because I've only been here a couple of weeks, but people are so exhausted. But they always say this, we don't have an alternative because they know what Putin's regime is. They know that people are taken down to cellars and tortured, the children deported.

13:57I mean, we see it. We see what's happened in the occupied territories. It's just a complete, you know, dictatorship, no freedoms. I mean, they don't want to live that way. They really feel European. Actually, when you come to Ukraine, you feel the European spirit more than you do in Western Europe. It's like these people here know what it means because they're fighting for something. So there's an incredible resilience here. Yes, people are tired, but they're not ready to be under the rule of Vladimir Putin. Yeah. And real quick, Ukrainian President Zelensky, what has he been saying about this process?

14:29Who has he been meeting with? Well, he says he will sign on to a deal for a ceasefire. But I spoke to a military analyst last night. He said, look, there is no document that can bring peace. There is a document that could bring a ceasefire. And that's the only thing we hope for. And I said, what about security guarantees? Do you need the Americans in NATO? He said, the only security guarantees that will help us is the Ukrainian military. Ukrainians know they have to rely on themselves. They know that Putin will not stop this war. That is NPR's Eleanor Beardsley again in Kyiv. Eleanor, thank you.

15:02Take good care. Thank you.

15:12Coming up, a billionaire couple is sweetening the pot for Americans who can take advantage of those new investment accounts for children created as part of President Trump's tax and spending legislation from earlier this year. After the break, baby bonds, kids' accounts, and who gets to claim a little extra cash for their children? Stick around.

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16:24Michael and Susan Dell announced they are depositing 250 bucks into investment accounts for about 25 million American kids. Here's Michael Dell on CNBC. These accounts can be used when the child turns 18. It becomes like an IRA. They can use it for education, for starting a business, for buying a home, for starting a family, for continued savings. So how's this all going to work? We asked Weylin Wong. She hosts The Indicator from NPR's Planet Money. Here's her conversation with Peter O'Dowd. Hi, thanks for having me. Sure. You know, the thing that strikes me about this, it's having really rich private citizens step in to fund a government program.

17:09Is this unusual? I think it's unusual in basically every way. It's unusual to have a private citizen, like you said, come in and give such a large gift to the federal government for this program. And it's unusual, I think, in the world of philanthropy as well. This is not a rich person who's, you know, funding a hospital or a museum wing or setting up some kind of nonprofit program. It's direct giving, which is what Michael Dell said he wanted to do because it matches what he did with his computer business. Let's talk about how it would work. The money would complement the so-called Trump accounts that Republicans approved with their tax and spending bill this summer, and that would fund investment accounts for babies.

17:49So how does the Dell money fit in? Right. So the Trump accounts would give$1 ,000 to kids with a social security number who are born between January 1st, 2025 and December 31st, 2028. So that's basically the Trump term, right? And so Michael Dell is coming in with this huge gift, and he's giving$250 to older kids. So these are kids who are born between 2016 and 2024. So they missed the cutoff for the Trump accounts. And these kids also live in zip codes where the median household income is below$150 ,000 a year. So it is targeted towards kids who might come from families whose incomes are a little lower.

18:37But you know what I think is interesting about that? there's nothing that says, so far at least, that you have to be poor to get this money because anyone could live in a zip code where the household income is less than$150 ,000. Absolutely. So this is a universal program. It's like a little bit targeted, but it does have kind of a universal quality to it because, yeah, you will have in a zip code a variety of income levels and a kid from a very well-off family will get the same$250 that a kid from a lower income family would get. Interesting. So now to me, the big question here is whether these baby bonds or investing this money for newborns or young kids, would it help close the wealth gap in this country?

19:20And that's something that a lot of economists have debated for a long time. What do we know about whether this idea would even work? Yeah, you know, what's interesting is I think when you are trying to evaluate this kind of program based on whether it will move the needle on the wealth gap, you have to think about the difference between wealth and income, right, and how wealth is transmitted through generations. And we think of that as, you know, owning a house and having equity in a house. Or you think about having, you know, a trust fund. Or you think about, you know, having a family that can pay for college so you don't have to take on a ton of debt to go to school, for example.

20:01And so these are ways that generational wealth is transmitted in this country. And when you look at these accounts and, you know, getting seeded with, let's say,$1 ,000 or$250, depending on where you fall with those cutoff dates, it's, you know, it does take advantage of kind of the miracle of compound interest, right? And these, this is money that's going to be invested in the stock market, which, you know, has on average much higher returns than kind of the natural rate of interest you would get from, let's say, like a savings account. But I think it's, you know, So it's interesting to look at the numbers and to crunch the numbers, because if you look at, you know, what the White House says about the Trump account.

20:39So these are for the thousand dollar accounts. It says that, you know, if you don't make any contributions in because you're allowed to contribute to this if you want. But if you only get the thousand dollars from the government and you never put anything else in by age 18, you'll have five thousand eight hundred dollars, which is a nice amount of money. But it's not enough for a down payment. It's not enough for – It's not a life-changing amount of money. And so in that way, I interviewed an economist about this about a year ago. And she said you should think about this as more income than wealth because if you never contribute to it, then the amount you get even with like let's assume like a 10 percent rate of return, for example, it's not quite enough to launch you in this way that builds wealth.

21:31But here's the thing, and I want to interrupt you because I don't have a lot of time. This is an important point because you can either contribute to it or you don't, and there's a big difference. So I wonder if this money wouldn't be better off coming out with some kind of financial literacy to help people navigate what can be a pretty complex tool, just briefly. Yeah, I mean, I feel like you should think about these Trump accounts not as a cure-all for the wealth gap or anything else, but kind of one tool in an arsenal of tools that people should be using to think about building wealth and narrowing the wealth gap.

22:02All right. Waylon Wong hosts The Indicator from NPR's Planet Money. Thanks so much for this. We appreciate it. Thank you.

22:11That is our show for today. Here and Now, Anytime comes from NPR and WVUR Boston. Today's stories were produced by Kalyani Saxena, Thomas Danielian, and Jill Ryan. Today's editors were Todd Munt, Micaela Rodriguez, Michael Scotto, and Kat Welch Technical direction from Caleb Green and Marcel Damiano Our theme music is by Mike Pischetto, Max Liebman, and me, Chris Bentley Our digital producers are Alison Hagen and Grace Griffin And the executive producer of Here and Now is Alan Price Thanks for listening We'll be back with you tomorrow