Ukraine and Russia start peace talks as attacks continue

0:00WBUR Podcasts. Boston. People are freezing in their homes. You know, I was just visiting a friend recently whose place was so cold we could see our breath inside. You know, we're layering in three, four layers, living in Long Johns and drinking countless cups of hot tea just to try to stay warm here. Ukraine struggles through a relentless winter made worse by Russia's attack on its energy grid, just as both countries start peace talks alongside U.S. mediators.

0:40It's Wednesday, February 4th, and this is Here and Now Anytime from NPR and WBUR Boston. I'm Chico Theuri. Today on the show, hundreds of thousands of Haitians in the U.S. are getting a reprieve after a judge blocked the Trump administration's attempt to end their temporary protected status. And Gloucester, Massachusetts, is the country's oldest fishing port, which has repeatedly experienced tragedy on the sea. The city once again finds itself in mourning after a boat sank in the Atlantic Ocean. It's one of the most dangerous, treacherous jobs anyone can do. I feel for all of them. I just hope that they're all at peace.

1:26But first, peace talks between Russia and Ukraine started today in Abu Dhabi. Negotiators met face-to-face alongside U.S. mediators. Ukraine is suffering a brutal winter with sub-zero temperatures as Russia bombards its neighbor's energy grid, leaving millions of civilians without heat or power. This week, President Trump said Russian leader Vladimir Putin made him a promise to stop those strikes for a week-long ceasefire. Hours later, Russia rained missiles down on Kiev's grid. Christopher Miller is the Financial Times chief Ukraine correspondent, and he joined Indira Lakshmanan from Kiev. So first, President Trump hailed what he called a ceasefire by Russia, which they've already broken.

2:10That doesn't seem like a great omen for negotiations or any promises from the Russian side. No, certainly it doesn't bode well for peace talks or for Russia's position on this, right? I think what was interesting was hearing Donald Trump sort of throw Vladimir Putin a bone here and say, well, he did agree to a week-long ceasefire and he kept his word, but it began from the previous Sunday and lasted until this past Sunday. So, you know, what we were supposed to have been seeing prior to that was an energy ceasefire and Russians not hitting the critical infrastructure here for four days before Trump made that statement and let us know that Vladimir Putin had agreed to it, right?

2:51But instead, Vladimir Putin had launched attacks on energy infrastructure. And so when this ceasefire sort of came into effect via Trump's statement, It was only about four days long, and we saw the biggest bombardment of missiles and drones of the year on the end of that, just Tuesday night. So what are Ukrainians doing, and you for that matter, to survive without heat in sub-zero Fahrenheit temperatures? It's tough. People are really rallying together here. There are thousands of apartment buildings across Kiev that are without power, without heating, and without water. The streets are frozen.

3:33The ice has been packed down now after three or four weeks of sub-zero temperatures. It's basically an ice rink outside, and people are freezing in their homes. So, Christopher, back over in Abu Dhabi, this is the second round of peace negotiations. The first were last month. How are the talks going? You know, it's hard to say right now. We're getting very little information out of the talks. They've ended. There will be a new day of talks. We're not expecting a whole lot, to be honest. The Russians have said as recently as this afternoon through their foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, that the Russian position has not changed and will not change.

4:16The Russians want complete control over all of the territory that they've taken, and they want more. They want the Ukrainians to surrender the rest of the region of eastern Ukraine called Donetsk or the Donbass. Donald Trump has told his envoy, Steve Witkoff, that he believes, you know, territory is the big hurdle here and they're trying to push the Ukrainians to hand over this piece of territory. And the Ukrainians and President Zelensky, of course, are saying, you know, not without serious security guarantee considerations and only in the right kind of conditions and only if Russia withdraws an equal distance on its side.

4:52Let's talk about those security guarantees. Has there been progress in any agreement towards that end? You know, there has been some progress on the Ukrainian side getting the Americans and the Europeans to put down some ideas on paper. I say ideas because they're not full-fledged promises yet, and anything that is agreed by the U.S. and the European side would still need to be accepted by the Russians, the other belligerent in this war, right? If they're actually going to be worth anything at all and if there's actually going to be a ceasefire. You know, none of these guarantees would actually come into effect unless there is some kind of peace deal that Russia would have to be involved in.

5:34So there has been some progress made on what the Europeans and the Americans would provide. But there's a lot that we still don't know about the security guarantees. And really, again, those are going to be contingent on reaching a truce here first. This month is the fourth anniversary of Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Give us an overview. How many people have died on each side and how much territory has actually changed hands? Sure. Both Russia and Ukraine very rarely release figures on the numbers of people killed. But by calculations through reporting and other various foreign governments, including the U.S.'s own calculation, we believe it's somewhere over more than 1.2 million people killed, and that includes soldiers and civilians.

6:25About 20 % of Ukrainian territory is currently under Russian occupation, where Russia wants to take even more territory, if not through force, then through negotiations. 20 % of Ukraine, that's quite a lot of territory. I mean, to try to put it in perspective for American listeners, the country of Ukraine is about the size of the state of Texas. So, you know, imagine, you know, one fifth of the state of Texas under foreign occupation. And that's, you know, what Ukraine has to deal with. You're in Kiev. Do Ukrainians think Putin is serious about peace or do they think he's pulling the wool over Trump's eyes and trying to run down the clock?

7:06The latter, certainly. They're under no illusions that Vladimir Putin wants peace. they are certain that he wants to continue his war. He wants to take more. He's not finished here. He wants to move on even beyond Ukraine, they believe. That is why they're in such a really difficult position being pounded relentlessly by Russian missiles and drones and uncertain of when that might end considering that Vladimir Putin has shown no sign or willingness, really, that he's prepared to negotiate. Rather, he's set on continuing his war. Christopher Miller is chief Ukraine correspondent for the Financial Times.

7:49He joined us from Kiev. Thanks, Christopher. Thank you. Coming up next, a federal judge blocks the Trump administration's attempt to end TPS status for hundreds of thousands of Haitians living in the U.S. Stay with us.

8:18About 350 ,000 Haitians who are legally living in this country are breathing a sigh of relief today. That's because a federal judge on Monday temporarily blocked an effort by the Trump administration to end temporary protected status for Haitians here. The news is reverberating in Springfield, Ohio, where a quarter of the city's population is Haitian. The city was a target of false conspiracy theories amplified by President Trump in 2024. Rose Tamer-Joseph is the co-founder of the nonprofit Haitian Support Center in Springfield. Her organization helps Haitian immigrants and refugees find housing, jobs, and other services.

8:58Here's her conversation with Indira. So what has the reaction been in town to the judge's ruling that keeps humanitarian protections in place for Haitians, at least for now? Everybody is a little bit relieved now because the decision gave us time to breathe a little bit and also to better plan. So Haiti has endured earthquakes, floods, really brutal gang violence and food shortages in recent years. Are people in your community worried that they're going to be forced to go back to what is frankly a dangerous and unstable country? I can tell you this is the biggest fear because we all know that if Haiti was a good ship, a lot of us would have left the U.S.

9:48but AD is a real chaos now and just having the thought to go back to AD is scary because of the gang violence, kidnapping and everything that is going on right now in AD. So yes it is our biggest fear going back to AD. AD is home so home is home but the fact that the country is a real chaos now going back is not safe for anybody. It's likely that the White House is going to appeal this judge's ruling. What are you telling people in your community to prepare for? We are trying to help them understand the decision of the judge. This is not a final victory. This is not a final decision because the executive will do an appeal and we don't know what will happen with this appeal.

10:51So we are asking them to get ready for anything. Yet we are praying that the decision will be in favor of us, but also we have to be realistic and get ready for the worst. Many listeners may remember that Haitians in Springfield were the subject of an ugly conspiracy theory. Back in 2024, during the election, President Trump had amplified a lie that Haitians living there were eating dogs and cats. There was a lot of fear at the time. Did that have a lasting impact? And how are Haitians in that community doing now? I think since fall 2024, the community, we are living with fear because we all know what happened in 2024.

11:47And I can say now it is worse than 2024. In the community, there is a lot of fear, stress and anxiety right now. Parents are afraid or a little bit reluctant to send their kids to school. And also a lot of people are afraid to lose their job because if they end CPS, there will be a lot, a lot of people in the community without job, without being able to drive. and there is a lot, like I said, a lot of anxiety right now in the Haitian community. Rose Tamer-Joseph is co-founder of the Haitian Community Help and Support Center in Springfield, Ohio. Thank you so much for joining us. And thank you for having me.

12:49Coming up, a fishing port in Massachusetts is reeling after a boat sank in the Atlantic last week. Stay with us. Thank you.

13:26Quote's licensed agents will compare policies from trusted, top-rated insurance companies to find you the best fit for your health, your lifestyle, and your budget. And they work for you for free. Get the right life insurance for you and save more than 50 % at selectquote.com slash anytime. That's 50 % off at selectquote.com slash anytime. The U.S. Coast Guard is investigating the sinking of a 72-foot fishing boat off the coast of Gloucester, Massachusetts. The vessel known as the Lily Jean sank last Friday. All seven crew members are presumed dead. Gloucester is a seafaring city. It's experienced tragedies like this many times before.

14:08And as WBUR's Anthony Brooks reports, the city is once again in mourning.

14:17Gloucester's Fisherman Memorial is a somber reminder of just how dangerous this profession is. The bronze statue of a skipper clutching the wheel of his boat faces the open ocean. Inscribed on the seawall are the names of thousands who sailed from this city over the centuries and never returned. On Friday, seven more were lost in the frigid waters of the Atlantic. Just really hard, really hard for everybody. Breck Beard stopped by the memorial around sunset earlier this week. He was a longtime friend of the captain of the Lily Jean, Gus Sanfilippo, a seasoned and respected skipper here in Gloucester.

14:56Yeah, he was a good man. I remember him when he was just a kid, you know. Can you tell me something about him? He was a hard worker. Just, I can always remember he was a really good carpenter back in the day. And I remember him way back when he worked at Geno's Golf over in East Gloucester. Just always a hard worker, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So sad, you know. Beard says it will take time for this close-knit city, the country's oldest fishing port, to recover from the loss of the lily gene. I'm in shock. It's a tragedy. I feel like I lost part of my family. Mary Ann Perry was at the Fisherman Memorial with her sister Paula Burns.

15:38They didn't know the seven crew members who went down with the lily gene, but Paula Byrne says they have an idea what the families they left behind are going through. Well, my father was a fisherman for years. His boat went down like four times, but he survived every one of them. So me and my family, my sister, we understand the dangers of fishing and you can be the best captain, but the sea will always take you over. It's not clear what caused the Lily Jean to sink 25 miles off Cape Ann, but it apparently happened fast. There was no radio communication from the boat, only a signal from the emergency beacon, which is activated automatically.

16:19The Coast Guard recovered the body of just one crew member, the captain, Gus Sanfilippo, who was not wearing a survival suit, and an empty life raft. A search all day Friday and into Saturday morning found no survivors in the ice-cold waters. And Coast Guard Captain Jamie Frederick gave the update Saturday afternoon that nobody wanted to hear, but that most everyone in Gloucester feared. I believe there is no longer a reasonable expectation that anyone could have survived this long. Now the Coast Guard and the National Transportation Safety Board will try to figure out what happened to the lily gene.

16:57State Senator Bruce Tarr of Gloucester urged people to avoid speculation. He said the investigation will eventually reveal some answers about what he called an unthinkable tragedy. We're dealing with the forces of nature. We will never be able to say that it won't happen again. But when we go to sleep at night, what we want to be able to say is we did everything in our power to minimize that chance. At that same press conference earlier this week, Vito Jacalone, policy director of the Northeast Seafood Coalition, addressed one question about the sinking. Should the Lily Jean have been out at all in last weekend's freezing winter weather?

17:41Jacalone said this wasn't out of the ordinary. Its crew was doing what fishermen do in winter. The loss just shocks us all that it happened so quickly. So I've heard people say, Why do they go fishing in that weather? You know, why do the electric company folks go up in the middle of a blizzard to turn the lights back on, right? That's what fishermen have every day, especially in the winter.

18:08That's dark truth about the risks fishermen take every day is clear at the Fisherman's Memorial. That's where Alyssa Harding of Gloucester was placing a bouquet last night to honor the crew of the Lily Jean. It's one of the most dangerous, treacherous jobs anyone can do. I feel for all of them. I just hope that they're all at peace. For Here and Now, I'm Anthony Brooks.

18:45Here and Now Anytime comes from NPR and WBUR Boston. Today's stories were produced by Jenea Williams and Jill Ryan. Today's editors were Micaela Rodriguez, Michael Scotto, Kat Welch, and me, Shiko Theuri. Technical direction from Caleb Green and Andre Peralta. Our theme music is by Mike Moschetto, Max Liebman, and Chris Bentley. Our digital producers are Alison Hagen and Grace Griffin. And the executive producer of Here and Now is Alan Price. Thanks for listening. We'll see you tomorrow.

19:25It's not a game.