In short
The episode discusses two main topics: (1) whether the Trump administration could end the Iran war without reopening the Strait of Hormuz, and (2) a “propaganda war” on Washington’s National Mall featuring satirical art mocking Trump, plus (3) NASA’s Artemis 2 moon mission. NPR Pentagon reporter Tom Bowman and Robin Young say the U.S. is continuing bombing of Iranian missiles, Navy, and Air Force, while messaging about the Strait is mixed; they argue reopening is logistically difficult (minesweepers, combat air patrol, escorting tankers) and necessary because the strait carries nearly a quarter of the world’s oil. They cite Iran still firing missiles, including damage to U.S. AWACS planes and wounded U.S. troops. Bowman also notes concerns allies weren’t included and U.S. casualties and missile inventory were low. Frank Langfitt reports on critics’ installations: a “throne” with a gold toilet seat near the Lincoln Memorial, and a “King of the World” Trump-and-Jeffrey-Epstein “Titanic” statue near the Capitol; reactions include “hilarious” and “offensive.” White House response: Trump is focused on saving the country, critics can share opinions. NASA segment features planetary scientist Bryony Horgan (Purdue University), explaining Artemis 2 is an Orion/SLS crew flyby (no landing) to test systems, with astronauts taking far-side color imagery; she compares it to Apollo 10.
Guests
Tom Bowman (NPR Pentagon), Robin Young (NPR/Here and Now), Frank Langfitt (NPR), Bryony Horgan (Purdue planetary science).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOTrump's Approach to Iran
0:48 to 1:24
Discussion on Trump's willingness to end the war with Iran.
“It's Tuesday, March 31st, and this is Here and Now Anytime from NPR and WBUR Boston.”
Pentagon's Military Strategy
1:24 to 2:20
Analysis of Pentagon's military actions and mixed messages about the Strait of Hormuz.
“The Wall Street Journal first reported this.”
Consequences of a Closed Strait
2:20 to 3:08
Exploring the economic implications if the Strait of Hormuz remains closed.
“And, you know, obviously it was open before the war began.”
Military Troop Deployments
3:08 to 5:26
Detailing troop deployments to the CENTCOM area and their potential roles.
“And that's a laborious process to do that.”
Concerns Over War Risks
5:26 to 6:32
Discussion on the risks involved in the ongoing conflict and Pentagon's response.
“Well, I'm not sure exactly what he said, but I do know military officials were telling both the White House and Capitol Hill.”
Trump's Propaganda War on the National Mall
7:50 to 9:43
Exploring the divide in public opinion about Trump showcased on the National Mall.
“Prolon's five-day fasting-mimicking diet aims to make it easy to reset your body, habits, and energy.”
Public Reactions to Art Installations
9:43 to 11:21
Conversations with people reacting to controversial art installations about Trump.
“Trump, you know, names everything after himself.”
Perceptions of Power and Ridicule
11:21 to 13:36
Discussion on how Trump's imagery reflects authoritarianism and public ridicule.
“But I did meet people who didn't like it.”
NASA’s Upcoming Moon Mission
13:53 to 14:03
Preview of NASA's Artemis 2 mission and its significance.
“Support for NPR and the following message come from Warby Parker, the one-stop shop for all your vision needs.”
NASA's Artemis 2 Mission Overview
14:14 to 18:18
Learn about Artemis 2, its significance, and the technology behind it.
“Four of them are expected to blast off from the Kennedy Space Center in Florida for an historic mission called Artemis 2.”
Show all 12 chapters
Apollo 10 Comparison
18:18 to 18:38
The discussion highlights how Artemis 2 is a precursor to future lunar landings, similar to Apollo 10.
“I mean, is the point really that this is the start of a much broader multi-trip mission here?”
Perspective from Space
18:38 to 19:34
Understanding how astronauts' views from space can change perspectives on Earth.
“And so that's really what this mission is setting up.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Tom Bowman:This message comes from Easy Cater, making it easy for organizations to order food for meetings and events from favorite restaurants, set up meal programs for their employees, and manage food spend all in one place at easycater.com. WBUR Podcasts, Boston. There are countries around the world who ought to be prepared to step up on this critical waterway as well. It's not just the United States Navy. The Trump administration appears to be willing to end the war with Iran, even if the Strait of Hormuz remains closed.
0:48Tom Bowman:It's Tuesday, March 31st, and this is Here and Now Anytime from NPR and WBUR Boston. I'm Chico Bouloudi. Today on the show, the National Mall has become a stage for a propaganda war between the Trump administration and its critics. I think it's hilarious. Pretty pointless. I think it's offensive. And NASA astronauts are heading back to the moon for the first time in more than 50 years. But first, there are reports that President Trump wants to end the war with Iran without reopening the Strait of Hormuz. That's the critical shipping route for nearly a quarter of the world's oil. The Wall Street Journal first reported this.
1:29Tom Bowman:And this morning on social media, Trump told allies to, quote, get your own oil, something Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth echoed in a press conference today. This Strait of Hormuz issue, which we've set the conditions for success, and we will make sure Iran knows that very clearly, is not just a United States of America problem set. NPR's Tom Bowman breaks down the latest with Robin Young. What do we know about the Pentagon's thinking on this?
1:55Frank Langfitt:Well, what we know, and Defense Secretary Higgs had said it today, they're continuing the bombing campaign, going after the Iranian missiles, their inventory, their Navy, and their Air Force. So that's continuing. But you're right, there's mixed messages as far as the Strait of Hormuz is concerned. On the one hand, it's like we don't care about it. Then we do care about it. We want Europe to help out. So again, mixed messages on that. But the Strait of Hormuz is key. They're going to have to reopen it. And, you know, obviously it was open before the war began. And now Iran is letting a small number of ships transit through the Strait of Hormuz.
2:35Tom Bowman:Well, what would it mean? I mean, if you say it can't happen, that the strait remains closed. But what if President Trump declares victory and ends the war and it is closed?
2:47Frank Langfitt:Well, again, you're going to have to reopen that. I don't know about you, but I'm paying$1.10 more per gallon for gas than I was a month ago. Fertilizer prices have gone up, and the growing season is going to start soon. Liquefied natural gas in Europe has doubled in cost. And it's only going to get worse for all of us if they don't get that straight open somehow. And that's a laborious process to do that. You have to create a combat air patrol, first of all, 50 square mile radius, I'm told. and then send in minesweepers to make sure you get all those. And then after that, destroyers would have to go in to basically escort the oil tankers through the strait.
3:29Frank Langfitt:So that is really key here, I think.
3:31Tom Bowman:Now, what about ground troops? What are you hearing?
3:34Frank Langfitt:Well, the 82nd Airborne, a couple of thousand troops, have arrived in the CENTCOM area. You have Marines aboard ship, about 2 ,500 somewhere off Oman. And then you have another Marine Expeditionary Unit with 2 ,500 more Marines heading from San Diego. I'm told they're off Hawaii now, and it could take another 10 days or so for them to get in the Middle East region. So quite a few troops heading there. As far as what they'll be doing, we don't know. We've often talked about seizing Karg Island, the main oil facility for Iran, or some of the ports along the coast, including Bandar Abbas. to help with the efforts to reopen the strait.
4:20Frank Langfitt:But at this point, we don't have a sense of exactly what they'll be doing or if they'll be going.
4:26Tom Bowman:Well, Iran is still firing missiles that inflict damage on Israel and U.S. military assets. There was that plane damaged over the weekend.
4:34Frank Langfitt:Actually, it was more than one plane. It was two E-3 Sentry AWACS planes and maybe a refueler as well. So more than that. And also 12 U.S. troops there were wounded, several of them seriously wounded.
4:51Tom Bowman:I wonder if you have thoughts on the CNN report yesterday that in the run-up to the war, Secretary of Defense Hegseth downplayed the inherent risks of the conflict spiraling out of control. This is according to CNN's sources, some in the room, who say Hegseth thinks blowing stuff up is the best way for him to keep his job. What is your sense of, you know, maybe this is throwing Hegseth under the bus, you know, that it was his fault he didn't tell me the risk, or did he really not know the risks? Your sense of that report? Right.
5:28Frank Langfitt:Well, I'm not sure exactly what he said, but I do know military officials were telling both the White House and Capitol Hill. They were concerned that the allies were not part of this war, number one. Number two, they were worried about U.S. casualties. And also they were concerned about the U.S. missile inventory getting critically low. But it is amazing, though, I think that, you know, that people talk about how easy it would be. I just think they completely mischaracterized what would happen once they started down the road to war.
6:01Tom Bowman:The Pentagon has demanded the Financial Times retract a story about Hegseth's money manager investing in a defense-related fund in the run-up to the war. Was Hegseth asked about that in the news conference today?
6:12Frank Langfitt:No, he was not asked about that. And frankly, a lot of the partisan press, right-wing press, they're not asking the hard questions of Secretary Hegseth. And the traditional press is in the back of the room, and they rarely get called on. It's a real problem.
6:27Tom Bowman:Tom Bowman, who covers the Pentagon for NPR, thank you so much as always.
6:32Frank Langfitt:You're welcome.
6:35Tom Bowman:Coming up next, there are sharp differences of opinions about the Trump administration, and they're especially visible in Washington, D.C. We'll explain after the break.
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8:21Tom Bowman:The National Mall in Washington, D.C. is known for its monuments honoring war heroes and presidents. Now, it's a public stage for division over President Trump. Certain areas of the mall are a visual dichotomy, with one side boasting giant banners of him and the other temporary statues or works of art ridiculing him. NPR's Frank Lingfit tells Scott Tong about a new addition to this propaganda war that he saw in front of the Lincoln Memorial. Yeah, it's this ornate throne. It's painted to look like it's marble. There's a toilet seat, which is spray-painted gold.
8:57Frank Langfitt:Toilet seat.
8:58Tom Bowman:And the plaque says, it's a throne fit for king. And basically the idea of these critics who put this artwork up is that amid all the economic turmoil, the war in Iraq, that Trump is focused on things like renovating the Lincoln bathroom. And also it's tapping into that critique of Trump trying to rule like an autocrat, which is, of course, what we saw with the No Kings rallies last weekend. Of course, also important to remember the president denies that he operates as an autocrat.
9:26Frank Langfitt:And of course, for people inclined, insert your own bathroom joke here. Frank, did you get to talk to people there, what they thought?
9:34Tom Bowman:Yeah, I mean, people flocked to this thing, school groups, tourists. A lot of people posed for photos on that gold toilet seat. And I met a guy named Tom Straub. He's a retired teacher. He was in from Connecticut. This is what he had to say. I think it's hilarious. What's hilarious to you? Trump, you know, names everything after himself.
9:53Frank Langfitt:You know, I was just joking with my wife today, like pretty much everything in D.C. is going to be called Trump soon, including the streets. Then we'll know exactly where we are because, you know, we're on Trump Street.
10:03Tom Bowman:And Straub, what he's referring to, of course, here is the renaming of things like the Kennedy Center and the United States Institute of Peace after Trump. And in fact, from the throne, you could actually see both of those buildings, which I don't think was an accident.
10:18Frank Langfitt:Yeah. You know, the town here, of course, it's not a big town. I mean, you go around, you see all these things pretty quickly. And of course, just across the river from the Lincoln Memorial, the president wants to erect an arch that many say is going to be disproportionately gigantic. Frank, earlier this month, a different statue went up in front of the U.S. Capitol showing Trump and Jeffrey Epstein. Did you get to see that? I did.
10:42Tom Bowman:I went down to see that also. It was put up by the same group. They're called the Secret Handshake, and it was permitted by the Park Service. And there's this image, the arms of Jeffrey Epstein, like they're on the prow of a ship. It looks like Titanic, and it's called King of the World. And it was right across from that giant banner of Trump's face that you see hanging from the Department of Labor. Again, almost kind of set up as a counterpoint to this grand image of the president.
11:09Frank Langfitt:What was the reaction to the Trump Epstein, the Titanic statue?
11:14Tom Bowman:Well, a lot of people, just like with the toilet seat, you know, in the throne, people took pictures in front of it. But I did meet people who didn't like it. There was a guy I met named Danny Britt. He was accompanying some homeschool students from Jacksonville, Florida. And when they came across this golden statue of Trump and Epstein, and here's what Danny thought. It's pretty pointless. I think it's offensive. What offends you about it? Just the implication of it. They're taking such a stand. It's so bold in front of the Capitol. And, you know, Scott, some other people I talked to said likening Trump to a king was just too much.
11:49Tom Bowman:They pointed out that a king would never tolerate this kind of ridicule.
11:53Frank Langfitt:Yeah. Well, Frank, you mentioned this statue was, you know, with an eyesight of one of these big Trump banners. There are several in town. Of course, the letters at the Kennedy Center are very big. Donald J. Trump. What did people make of all that?
12:09Tom Bowman:Yeah, it's interesting. The American tourists who were there from all over the country, they likened the image of President Trump to what they've seen in authoritarian countries with leaders, you know, in sort of old days, when you think about China, and you think about the Soviet Union. But some of those interesting takes got were from foreign visitors. I met a woman named Claudia Riviello. She's a professional from Mexico City. And at first, she saw that banner of Trump, which says America Workers First. And she thought the banner was just like hanging from a private building. And then I explained.
12:42Tom Bowman:It's the Department of Labor. Really? Yeah. Oh, my God. I hadn't noticed that. Oh, my God, that's crazy. If it's for the honor of the workers, why are we seeing a huge face of him? There's also a banner like that at the Department of Justice. That's horrible.
12:59Frank Langfitt:It's just like he's the face of everything.
13:02Tom Bowman:And Riviello said to me, Scott, you know, you would never see images like this of Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum.
13:10Frank Langfitt:Frank, real quick, any response from the White House to this visible mocking of the president?
Read the full transcript
13:15Tom Bowman:Yeah, the White House, when I reached out to them, said President Trump is focused on saving our country, not garnering recognition. And added that critics are, quote, free to share their opinions publicly, even when they lack any basis in reality.
13:30Frank Langfitt:That's NPR's Frank Langfant, of course, here in Washington, D.C. Frank, thanks so much.
13:35Tom Bowman:Happy to do it, Scott.
13:40Tom Bowman:Coming up, NASA astronauts haven't been to the moon in more than half a century. They'll attempt to break that hiatus tomorrow. That's after the break.
13:53Tom Bowman:Support for NPR and the following message come from Warby Parker, the one-stop shop for all your vision needs. They offer expertly crafted prescription eyewear, plus contacts, eye exams, and more. For everything you need to see, visit your nearest Warby Parker store or head to warbyparker.com. Tomorrow, NASA astronauts are shooting for the stars and hope to land on the moon. Four of them are expected to blast off from the Kennedy Space Center in Florida for an historic mission called Artemis 2. Not only will it be the first time NASA astronauts have traveled toward the moon in more than 50 years, it will also be the furthest distance any human will have ever traveled into space.
14:37Tom Bowman:Pretty out-of-this-world stuff here, something only a planetary scientist can help us understand. So Scott called up Brian E. Horgan of Purdue University.
14:46Frank Langfitt:This crew is not landing on the moon, to be clear. They're flying around it doing a U-E and coming back. Why is that?
14:55Tom Bowman:That's a great question. So Artemis 2, it's the prep work that NASA is doing to get ready for future lunar landings. Landing on the moon is really hard. This is the first step, you know, showing that we can get back to the vicinity of the moon with the full technology that NASA is using to get us there.
15:13Frank Langfitt:Now, the line stuck in my head all morning is from the kid's book I read to my kids so many times. I love you to the moon and back. Why is this mission a big deal in your view?
15:24Tom Bowman:So this mission is a really big deal because it's, as you said, it's the first time we've been back anywhere near the moon in over 50 years. NASA has a brand new launch system, you know, the SLS, the Space Launch System. We have a brand new crew of astronauts that haven't been out that far beyond Earth before. It's really our chance to show the world that NASA is ready to explore the moon again.
15:44Frank Langfitt:And you mentioned the Space Launch system rocket. The astronauts will fly in what's called the Orion capsule. What should we know about the rocket, about the spacecraft?
15:56Tom Bowman:So the rocket, it's the biggest rocket NASA has built in decades. And we need that big of a rocket to get the kind of payloads we need to support humans exploring the moon again. And this is going to open up a whole new era of exploration. It's also going to be a totally new way for astronauts to live in space in the Orion spacecraft. And so understanding all the technical issues and things that might come up on this 10 day mission they're doing and how that might translate forward to the longer missions is really, really important.
16:26Frank Langfitt:Yeah. And I understand this launch originally was meant for February, had to be postponed for some repairs. Is that kind of a standard? Is that concerning at all?
16:35Tom Bowman:That is super normal, right? So we've seen that before. Artemis 1 was the uncrewed test flight of this rocket system. They had very, very similar issues. It really comes down to, you know, they're fueling these rockets with hydrogen and with oxygen, and they also have a bunch of helium in there too. Helium and hydrogen are incredibly hard to work with. They're extremely cold as a liquid. They're very small particles. And so they leak really easily. And so that's one of the reasons they do what we call wet dress rehearsals is to actually put all those fluids through the plumbing of the launch system in the spacecraft and to see, you know, what happens.
17:10Tom Bowman:And so leaks are very, very common. And they get a chance to fix it before we actually get on the pad with the crew.
17:16Frank Langfitt:I get it. All right. What are we going to learn from this trip? Can you talk a little about the mission and its research?
17:24Tom Bowman:We're really excited for the science that the Artemis 2 crew is going to be able to do. They're going to get a very unique human perspective on the far side of the moon, right? We only ever see the near side of the moon. That's the side we always see with the big lava flows and all these things on it that we see, the far side looks completely different. And we've sent robotic spacecraft back there, but they have a very different perspective. They're much closer to the moon. And they also don't always take color images. So the astronauts that are on board Artemis II will be able to take, you know, fantastic cameras with them and get this kind of bird's eye view and be able to see all of the details and textures and color that the human eye is great at picking out.
18:02Tom Bowman:So I think it'll give us a whole new perspective on the geology of the lunar far side.
18:06Frank Langfitt:Yeah. You know, reading up on this, FN, really interesting, a quote from the pilot of this mission, Victor Glover. He said, we want to quickly be forgotten so you can interview the next cruise. Fascinating. I mean, is the point really that this is the start of a much broader multi-trip mission here?
18:26Tom Bowman:Oh, for sure, right? I mean, the analog is Apollo 10. How often do we about Apollo 10. Apollo 11 landed on the moon. Apollo 10 did everything but that. They took the whole system around the moon and back. But we don't ever talk about that because Apollo 11 was the big success. And so that's really what this mission is setting up. And we think that'll probably be Artemis 4 in two missions that lands on the moon. And that will be the day with the parties and the celebrations and the parades that NASA has put humans back on the moon again.
18:54Frank Langfitt:And real quick, a quote from another crew member, Christina Cook. She has said when she's in space, quote, you don't feel things like envy or anger. Is that kind of a point to this also for us earthlings to see ourselves from the outside?
19:10Tom Bowman:Oh, definitely. You know, all of the Apollo astronauts came back talking about the changed perspective they had from being able to back off and see the earth as one planet, right? It's a very different perspective. You know, the images we got back from Apollo, I think really did change a lot of people's minds about how we interact with our planet, how special it is. And, you know, just being an astronaut and being able to see that for yourself is such a unique opportunity. I'm so excited for the whole crew.
19:36Frank Langfitt:Bryony Horgan is professor of planetary science at Purdue University. Professor, thanks so much.
19:42Tom Bowman:Thank you.
20:13Tom Bowman:Ghetto, Max Liebman, and Chris Bentley. Our digital producers are Alison Hagen and Grace Griffin, and the executive producer of Here and Now is Alan Price. Thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.
From the publisher
Then, the National Mall has become a stage for the deep division between the Trump administration and its many critics. Recently, artwork ridiculing President Trump appeared in front of the Lincoln Memorial. NPR’s Frank Langfitt explains more.
And, NASA’s Artemis II will launch on Wednesday, sending four astronauts around the moon. Purdue University professor Briony Horgan explains the significance of this journey, which will send humans farther into space than they’ve ever gone before.
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