[Hodinkee Podcast] Watches and Wonders - Day 1 | Rolex, Patek, Tudor & Cartier

0:00Discover the new chapter of Octo Finissimo from ultralight titanium to the warmth of 18 karat yellow gold. The new 37 millimeter profile is the definition of Italian spreczatura. Thanks so much to Bulgari and back to the show. One, two, three. I mean, guys. Hello and welcome to the Hodinkee podcast live from Watches and Wonders 2026. This is one of our favorite things to do. We get to sit down and talk about some of the stuff we've done today. And man, we've seen some watches already. Let me just say, this is like my favorite thing to do all year. Just to sit and chill? I prefer the ones where we had more beer, but we can fix that tomorrow.

0:38We'll get Andy to grab us a beer somewhere. For sure. Andy Hopper right off camera, by the way. Behind the scenes. That's right. And it's a treat. I've got Ben and Tim today. We're going to have a mixed crew all week. We're going to try and keep it to three voices so there's not too much over-talking. You can let me know in the comments. I know I over-talk. But I'm pumped to get into some watches. Let's do it. Let's do it. I feel like the natural place to start, because we've done this every year, the first day we talk, Rolex. So let's kick it off with Rolex. An interesting spread of unexpected sort of watches.

1:06And I think the easiest place to start, especially because we'll see the watches as a team tomorrow. Some of us have gotten a preview, and Ben, you weren't part of that. But I don't know that you could have much more to say about this one specific watch, because we did a big story. I'm done with that watch. We did an Instagram, and now we're doing a podcast. That's the four quadrants. Yeah, we've hit all the quadrants, yeah. I love that watch. It is really expensive as the comments. We knew the comments would be this wise. Should we say what it is? Yeah, go for it. It's a new enamel dial steel Daytona with platinum accents.

1:39The releasium. Yep. That's a technical term. Display case back. Display case back. New ceramic bezel, patent pending ceramic bezel for the record. Four piece enamel dial. The watch is tremendous. I mean, I was chatting with SJX on Sunday in Geneva. Shout out SJX. Great guy. And a guy I really respect, obviously, in this space. And he said, and I agree, this is peak Rolex. He probably hypothesized that Rolex probably spent millions of dollars and tens of years, or a decade plus, maybe an exaggeration, but years researching this bezel technology, this type of enameling, all this stuff, to just produce a white dial gray bezel Daytona.

2:13The average guy on Instagram will say, ah, it's four times the price, who cares? But Rolex does everything to the nth degree. They do everything for the long, long term. And by long term, I mean we're talking decades, not years. right? I mean, they know their stuff years out. The watch is incredibly cool. I think that the layman will not understand the price. I did not at first, as you know. We've had consternation, for sure. Yeah, we had severe consternation. I said, oh man, like what's going on here? Did we miss something? Is this a typo? It's a big number. It's a big number, but when you read the patent, which both you and I have, and you understand the enameling process that went into it, you start to understand like this is not your normal Daytona at all.

2:52And I think it also, So, you know, speaking with somebody else who knows Rolex, I would say intimately, but not from the inside. Rolex has a very particular pricing metric that is X times the cost, right? And so the R &D put into making this bezel, which, again, has some little traits that I really like that harken back to the old stuff and the porcelain dials and whatever. You know, he believes that this watch is probably using the same metric that the standard steel Daytona or any other watch would use. If that's true, we'll never know. But it's a cool watch. Yeah, and I think it's worth saying, especially this year, anybody who's watching this on YouTube or maybe is in the comments on the site will know that the major complaint that anybody has about the watch world is that watches are too expensive.

3:30And they are. They absolutely are. 100%. I would just say, especially this time of year, for this fun week where the new watches come out and we get to see them all and we get to write about them and, you know, it's a crazy four or five days, try and disconnect the product from the price unless you're absolutely a buyer. At which point, I get it, that may change the scope. But there is a world where you can simply appreciate these things for being kind of fun or interesting or unexpected, surprising, weird. I think that a lot of what we saw this year from Rolex was sort of coded in this 100th anniversary of the Oyster case.

4:07Absolutely. And for them to go steal another steel Daytona, one of the harder-to-get watches in existence, on top of there already being a white dial, I think it's just really them saying, well, we could do this. And so that led them down this path. And yeah, the patent's pretty intense. You can find it very easily on Google. I was very impressed you found that. Yeah, sure. I mean, Google makes patent patents really simple. But it's a couple years out, so they've clearly been in the works for that. I thought the enamel dial, especially that very specific effect you get from enamel, which has like a surface tension to it, especially where the subdials are integrated, feels very different.

4:46And of course, now you also don't have any color surrounding the sub dials. There's not black rings or something like that. Yeah, as I said in the video, and I think even the story, like, you know, short of the or in addition to the porcelain dials, which is from the 80s and early 90s, it brought me back to the albinos, right? Like the late 60s, early 70 watches. These are multi-hundred thousand, if not seven-figure watches or a Clapton-owned one. I mean, these are kind of holy grail Daytonas. So no black ring or silver ring in the registers at all. This is an albino. You know, I don't know if we're going to call it that.

5:13We'll see what the internet decides on. But I mean, this is a very interesting lot from my point of view. Removing all the technology and just citing all these tiny little kind of like hat tips to vintage Daytonas. The bezel, which is effective. I mean, it is Cerachrom, but it feels metallic. The straight printing on the bezel. The straight printing, the horizontal printing. I mean, it really feels like an older watch than it is. And the enamel is very, obviously, a very traditional type of manufacturing. So it feels like an old watch, even though it's brand new. And so, like, you're more of a Daytona guy than certainly I would be.

5:44you're probably more of a Daytona guy than most guys, period. But I'm curious, do you think that this watch could have existed before the Le Mans? For me, I see a narrative here of trying things, messing with a bezel, messing with a dial, messing with a movement for the Le Mans. It's an interesting question. I mean, it feels like a sister to Le Mans. I mean, this is like an Uber Daytona, right? I mean, this is like a mega Daytona. It's a nerd's Daytona. Yeah, it's that, but it's also like taking a step up, right? But yeah, I mean, you know, for many, many years, the consensus was that Rolex kind of disregarded its history, which we know is not true.

6:17But in terms of paying attention to what people like me, and I will admit, I'm a Daytona nerd. I love them, and I studied them. They're really paying attention. And I think the Le Mans was the first really tight reference to a historical watch, obviously Paul Newman-style dial, etc. And this would be the second. But this is a much deeper cut, right? I mean, a porcelain dial Daytona from 1988 is not a Paul Newman Daytona. So that's why I happen to love this watch. The price, I mean, I get it, but I think you're right. It's like in this case. $58 ,000. It's a lot of money. If you didn't read the story.

6:48Yeah. You know, it's not for everybody, but it wasn't designed for everybody. It was never going to be. Exactly. And Tim, looking over the other releases, I know you two, obviously, daily a 36-millimeter Datejust. And I'm curious, when do you plan on putting your reservation down for the 44-millimeter Yachtmaster? Yachtmaster II, to be fair. You know, I was thinking about it. I gave it heavy thought. but in fact, surprise, I'm really into the Datejust 41 and that green lacquer ombre dial. It photographs so well. I've not seen it in person yet, I look forward to seeing it tomorrow, but just that richness in the green, the bezel looks great.

7:23Now, 41 is a little bit big for me, but I'm hoping... And they're doing it in 36 as well. Yeah, well great, even so. But yeah, that's right in my wheelhouse and I look forward to seeing that tomorrow. Yeah, there's a bunch more to uncover and I think we can go deeper into some of the references. I have a real fondness for the new 126 000, the Jubilee motif. It's just a bunch of color on a watch that's usually quite reserved. And while maybe I didn't connect with puzzle dials or celebration dials and that sort of thing, for whatever reason, that very kind of graphic design speaks to me. But we'll have more to kind of feed in on that.

7:58The next one that we like to see day one and certainly a big year for this brand is Patek. 50th anniversary of the Nautilus. And right Right up until they announced, you sit in a room at the hotel waiting for 1201 for them to drop what the releases are. We were kind of not thinking they would do, like if you're going to do a Nautilus moment, you maybe do it later in the year. Right. So Patek has a grand exhibition, which is what they call these large exhibitions, that they do every few years all over the world. They have one in Milan coming later this year. And the consensus among people like us was that they would probably wait for them to have the Nautilus have its own moment.

8:35They did not. and they launched it today. I'll be honest. I'll be as I am with everyone always. I did not have a lot of faith that they would nail the 50th anniversary of the Nautilus. They did not nail the 40th anniversary of the Nautilus. I think that's the consensus. A little overbaked. Yeah, I mean, the stamping of the dial and just not what you're kind of after or what collectors are after. They fucking crushed this. They nailed it. This is better, frankly, than what I thought they would do. Better than I could have hoped for, right? So you have historical movements, which granted are 40 plus years old, but it's a 240 movement that's been in the catalog since 1977, which is a year after the Nautilus was created.

9:15So a super slim micro-rotor movement, which allows them to create a Nautilus, two or three different references, that is dramatically thinner than the 5811, which is currently in the catalog, or the 5711, which we all know and love, with no date, which has never existed on it didn't exist in 3700 or 5711 and no seconds hand which is like the 3700 uh and on top of that not only did they do it in the 41 millimeters which is what the 5811g is they did it in 38 millimeters in platinum referencing the 3800 and the 5800 which are pretty obscure kind of collector-y watches that have been pretty in vogue the last few years it is wonderful on the wrist i mean that 38 millimeter platinum watch limited edition 2000 i would take that all day long.

9:59The thing that struck me, I had a moment to have it on my wrist, and you don't have the bracelet sized, so you're making a few guesses here, but the thing that struck me is the case is as thin as the last bracelet link, so it really just melts onto your wrist, and then at the same time, it's so heavy. Because it's platinum, right? And you have it in your mind, like maybe everybody's calibration's a little different, but when somebody hands you a watch, you kind of have an expected outcome, and then you put this on and turn it sideways, and like the case disappears into the bracelet as you turn your wrist, because there's no, it's very seamless, the way that they've done it.

10:33It's 6 point something millimeters thick, which is very, very thin for Nautilus. I think the current one is 7 point something, maybe even 8 something. So dramatically thinner than the production stuff. 5811G, by the way, it's still in the catalog. This is limited edition. The 41 millimeter is white gold. The 38 millimeter is platinum. These watches are killers. They are going to be, I mean, just incredibly sought after, obviously. No matter what they did in Nautilus would be really in vogue, but these are like genuinely appealing to an actual collector. And I love that after the, like you said, there was the 40th anniversary, which was quite shouty about the anniversary.

11:01They've made something that's so subtle, but just by dropping a seconds hand or a date, you know immediately what one it is. That's a cool way to do an anniversary. This is, as I said, they nailed it. I mean, like, this is better than I could have hoped for. I mean, look, one of my first Patek's ever was Nautilus. I've owned a Nautilus, some variant, for the last 15 years. I still do. So they crushed this, I mean, in a way that like I don't think Patek has really nailed a collector-focused watch in a long time. I give them a lot of credit for sure. Absolutely. And anything else jump out from the line?

11:31I mean, the Nautilus desk clock is pretty wild. I mean, look, it's a 200 ,000 Swiss franc desk clock. Again, you've got to disconnect from the cash sometimes. Not always, I get it. This one, wherever Tantan is, you know. Tantan's losing his mind on this one. Tantan, it was his first time visiting Patek Philippe, which is a big moment for anybody. He was obsessed with this thing. So it's an eight-day hand-wound that was introduced last year in a like a I don't know the size but a large format Nautilus desk clock yeah, like a tilt up out of the case sort of baguettes on the markers I mean it is genuinely cool.

12:01It's 200 ,000 Swiss as we said only a hundred pieces for the world They actually told this in there this might be breaking news There was actually the idea of an apprentice like an intern and Mr Stern or somebody says like that is really cool. Let's make this and so like okay, so they did so they're doing a hundred pieces It is genuinely cool. This is, again, a surprisingly fun addition to the Nautilus collection. Anything else stand out? New dials in 5270s, new dials 5204. This alarm watch, which is really, really neat. First automaton wristwatch from Patek, at least in the contemporary era. This was one of the stronger years Patek has had in a long time.

12:38Patek is Patek. I love them, obviously. But the past few years have been kind of like hit and miss in terms of enthusiast stuff. This year they hit everything and they hit it really well. Look, I would still tweak things here and there, but the Nautilus was so strong. This automaton watch, the chiming. The alarm watch. The alarm watch. The packaging of that watch is fabulous when you think of how complicated the movement is. It's unbelievable. I mean, it's like... It just wears like a normal watch. It does, but like it's using technology from the minute repeaters. I mean, it's really very neat.

13:06Yeah, they had a great year all around. I mean, like really a shockingly good year, I would say. I think it would take a lot longer than we have for these episodes to kind of run through all those references. Leave it in the comments. If you really want a sit down to go over Patek point by point in the future, we can make that happen. Just have to let us know. So put that in the comments. This special episode of the Hodinkee podcast from Watches and Wonders 2026 is brought to you by Bulgari and the Octo Fenissimo. Since 2014, the Octo Fenissimo has redefined the limits of horology. And this year, the story reaches a new peak of maturity.

13:38introducing the Octo Finissimo 37, a reimagined blank canvas of architectural precision that brings a new universal proportion to an icon. Discover the new chapter of Octo Finissimo at Bulgari.com. All right, so with Patek covered, we actually have a special episode of Business of Watches with Andy Hoffman that we're going to drop right here, right now. It features a conversation with Andy and Ben and the guy behind all of this, the CEO of Watches and Wonders, Mr. Matthew Umair. He's frequent on our weekly, our annual daily shows from Watches and Wonders. And it's an absolute treat to sit down with him and get a little bit more insight into the show.

14:19And let's jump into that. And when we come back, we'll get into Tudor and some Cartier. Hey, it's Andy. And we're here in Geneva at Watches and Wonders. It is day one. So welcome to the Hodinkee podcast. I'm here with Ben Clymer, the founder of Hodinkee, and on my left, Matthew Humer, the Chief Executive Officer of Watches & Wonders. Matthew, thank you for joining us. Tell us how it's going on day one and what we should expect this year from Watches & Wonders. Yeah, thank you, Andy. Ben, welcome to Watches & Wonders Geneva 2026. Very happy to have you here. This edition is a record edition. It brings together 65 brands.

15:08It's marked by the arrival of Audemars Piguet and 10 new brands. A very positive edition. We are expecting 60 ,000 visitors versus 55 ,000 last year, 1 ,700 journalists, 6 ,000 retailers, 15 ,000 guests from across the world during the professional days. And also, public days, we're expecting 23 ,000 visitors. So very positive numbers, positive addition, good energy. So very happy to open this morning with many new major announcements and novelties this morning. Amazing. I mean, how are you achieving growth like that? A significant growth in the size of the show, the number of brands. It's not the easiest time for the industry.

16:01How are you doing that? You know, it's a big work throughout the year with the team, the Watchlander Geneva Foundation team works hard. It's a team project. We are in contact with the entire industry. The notion of service and excellence should remain. You mentioned we are growing, but we are also extending new areas, new experiences inside the salon, but also in the city of Geneva. And it shows the growing numbers of brands, really shows the need to be together, to unify the industry, to share a project, because Watches and Wonders is the perfect platform to showcase the know-how, the innovation of the industry together.

16:52Yeah, I mean, talk about that interaction with the city and what kind of impact, both financial and cultural, that Watches and Wonders has on the city here and what it says about Geneva's place in the watch industry. Yeah, Geneva has a long history in watchmaking. It's the capital of time. We are strengthening the program in the city of Geneva this year, new partnership. We have the watchmaking village located at the Pont de la Machine with watchmaking workshops, also a presentation of the know-hows from the young generation to the youngest in order to share the passion for watchmaking but also to open the doors to new carriers.

17:41It's also the point of departure, the watchmaking village, of all the guided tours throughout Geneva. And for the very first time, a partnership with the Montreux Jazz Club, invited to build the musical program of the Geneva Nights. It's a premiere and it's going to be very vibrant during the week, every night in the city center because watchmaking is cultural and needs to be nurtured and shared all together. We want to open the doors to a wide audience. And as somebody who spends his days dealing with large Swiss watch companies just like you do, I'm just curious, how challenging is it to please everybody?

18:24Thanks for asking. You know, it's a teamwork. The foundation, we are working hand in hand with the brands. We have a foundation board composed of the founders of the Geneva Foundation and an exhibiting committee as well. And we have a monthly meeting sharing ideas. So it's a team project. It builds from the brands for the brands. And in the end, you see the space, how it's configurated. There's visibility for everyone. Carré des Horlogers, the Mezzanine, institutional brands. So I think it's a great collaboration between the industry. It was really interesting. You and I were talking earlier and it was mentioned that, you know, obviously the brands pay fees.

19:14There's a cost for them to be here to participate in this great event. But talk about, you know, the evolution of the cost to the brands, say, over the past five years. You know, how has that changed? Yeah, costs are kept stable. We didn't increase. Square Metro Price remains stable. We had definitely economies of scale possible and good collaboration also with all the partners, Pal Expo, the Convention Center, the city of Genima in order to remain those costs stable. And you know it's also in the entire city it's 50 ,000 overnight stays during the period. 50 ,000. 50 ,000 overnight stays. So a lot of impact also for the city of Geneva and a huge visibility for watchmaking but also for the entire city.

20:14Yeah absolutely and how are you balancing because you know it's just a couple of years ago that you opened up to the public and now there's three days open to public visitors. How are you balancing you know the needs of the industry, the retailers, the brands, the press, with the public's desire to come here and get a look at the great watches? In fact, the four first days are mostly professional press retailers and clients. A lot of meetings, retailers' meetings on the brand's booth. But we also try to have meetings throughout the week, not only the four first days. You know also to to smoothen the arrival for all the hospitality the services the overnight stays and then three day open to the public with a lot of entertainment experiences It's interesting this year.

21:12We have 800 sessions for the brands for the public so public visitors can craft and design their personal day before coming to attend product presentation guided tours conferences, workshops, activities for the kids. We have a new space dedicated to the younger generation because watchmaking is built with them. The future watchmaking is built with those younger generation that respond very present throughout the week. 25 % of the visitors during the public days are below 25 years old. Wow, that's amazing. I mean, that's got to be encouraging for you. Very encouraging. And watchmaking is really relevant for those young generations, keeps innovating.

22:03And all the activation we do here in the salon, but also in the city, we want to promote watchmaking culture through all those generations. And this to me, I always describe my friends at home who don't follow watches as this is kind of the big leagues, right? I mean, this is where you want to be if you're a watch brand or a journalist or a retailer. how do you decide which brands make it in and which brands don't? Because I would imagine there would be some that would probably like to participate, but maybe can't. We have a strong interest. Many brands are asking to be present here. We have a committee of experts composed of exhibiting brands that are reviewing all the applications.

22:40We are in contact with the entire industry. We have objective criteria, such as technical expertise, the history of the brand, DNA design. And also it should be coherent also with the ecosystem of the salon. And this committee meets regularly and goes through all the brands. That's why we have every year newcomers at Watches on D 'Or Geneva. You want to get bigger though? You'd like to welcome some more brands? A bit, but not too much. We still have a bit some space available for a few brands that will be interested in joining in the next years. But not so much space. Excellent. Matthew, thank you so much for giving us some insights on how this great show works and where it's going.

23:31We really appreciate the time. Matthew Humer, the chief executive officer of Watches and Wonders. Thank you. Thank you, Andy. Thank you, Ben. Thank you. Stay tuned for more Hodinkee Radio. The next one that we went to is obviously a favorite of mine, Tudor. Tudor. What did you think, Tim? I loved it. You know, the first thing that caught my eye was obviously the Monarch. You know, I love the shade of the dial, but I have a bone to pick. I really, really want to like the watch, but I just can't get over the California dial. There's something about me with numbers I want to see either all Arabic, all Roman, all indices, but it's just a little nitpicky thing.

24:09But that aside, the watch wears amazing. It wears great on the wrist. and you know you know meta certified comes in i think it's 39 yep um and under 6 000 retail and under 6 000 retail speaking of prices this is a time where you can actually think about the price yeah um and like uniquely finished throughout a movement for that watch an execution of the finishing for that watch the bracelet has specific finishing for the links i highly recommend you check out the story that i'll be right writing as this episode probably goes live so stay tuned Yeah, I was really impressed by it. It's one of those ones I saw the pictures, and I was like, all right, this is my point of curiosity.

24:46Did not know what to expect. Was prepared to get in there and be like, not for me. And within a couple minutes, I mean, I really like the Cali dial. I enjoy Cali dials. I like the kind of oddball handset, which casts a very cool shadow on the finishing of the dial. I think the case feels totally disparate from Tudor in a really interesting way. It has this very thin crown, which actually kind of reminds me of the chronograph that you're wearing, Tim. We can do a wrist check in a moment. And then great view through the case back of a different architecture than you're expecting. Wears pretty thin.

25:18Bracelets quite nice. You would not give that watch up. I wanted to get the photos. Dude, you had it for like 25 minutes. Nothing's worse than it being like 2 in the morning and you're downloading and you know you wanted that one wrist shot and you didn't get any of them because Ben wanted the watch. I really wanted the watch. We were very patient. Oh, of course. I'm totally with you on this. To me, this is the most interesting tutor for me in years. And I kind of gave him a hard time last year because it's a lot more of the same. Line extensions, colors. Line extensions, variations are the same.