The Business of Watches [024] Oris CEO Rolf Studer

0:00Welcome to the Business of Watches, the Houdinki podcast where horology meets high finance and we go behind the scenes to talk to the executives at the heart of the watch industry. This week, we're in Hulstein, Switzerland, at the headquarters of Oris for a chat with Rolf Studer, the brand's chief executive officer. We talk about Oris' history and its perennial challenger role as a brand that promises to deliver the best value possible with its distinctive designs and unique positioning that offers customers the chance to be part of something different. But first, I'm joined by my most excellent colleague, Hodinkee editor, Tantan Wang, who's just back from Geneva and watches and wonders.

0:50Tantan, welcome. Thank you for joining me.

0:52Rolf Studer:Thank you, Andy. It's always good to be here. Excellent. So, I just saw you very recently at Watches and Wonders. You are a total renaissance man for Hodinkee this year, writing great pieces, taking photos, charming all the Bren representatives that you met. Eddie, you know, at this point, I guess we're over a week out from that? Any big takeaways or standouts that you're still thinking about from Watches and Wonders 2026? Yeah, that's a great question. It's funny because I think this still feels too soon to have properly digest everything. You know, Watches and Wonders is such an overwhelming experience in the quantity of both people and watches you get to see in a very short time.

1:38Rolf Studer:You know, to us, I think working during Watches and Wonders a week kind of feels like an eternity. But, you know, it's not all that much when it comes to how many watches you're seeing. So, you know, so I've still been thinking about that, obviously, partially for selfish reasons to think about, you know, what watches I might dream about one day. But overall, people have, I think, said this, but I think it's a very true point. This year felt like a very commercial year. I think, you know, some can read between the lines that there didn't feel like a wave of maximalist watchmaking like we maybe saw last year.

2:10Rolf Studer:You know, last year was a lot of, you know, a lot of records were broken, a lot of new complications, all that kind of stuff. But this year, it kind of felt like many of the hits were iterations of classic ideas. You know, like I'll give you an example. You know, Cartier's Privé showing this year, you know, while all I would say mostly at least great watches, it was literally a best of compilation of years past right so this year was 10 years of privé um in in sort of the new modern version and in past years everything would focus on sort of a revival of a new model if you will but this year was sort of hey you know let's just celebrate i guess by by bringing all it back and you know i think that was an interesting pivot for the brand bring out the hits yeah bring up bring out the hits which you know again i've always been of this opinion, right?

3:00Rolf Studer:But I think sometimes we do have to remind ourselves that as you know more than anyone else, brands are here to sell watches, right? And so, you know, obviously there's a lot of meaning towards collectors, but, you know, the people that buy watches are far more than us talking and chatting on the show, you know? So I think they always have to keep that in mind. So I don't blame them for this kind of stuff. And certainly my two favorite releases of the show are extremely not groundbreaking, you know, by any stretch of the imagination. If you gave me a blank check today, the two watches I'd probably buy from the show are the Vacheron Overseas Dual Time Cardinal Points, you know, the new titanium overseas, and the Chopard, the LUC 1860 with the new blue dial, right?

3:45Rolf Studer:So these are very much not new watches. These are mixes of different metals and colors. But, you know, maybe the alternative interpretation here is that this is the year of refinement. Absolutely. Yeah. No, I think that's right. I mean, I think we heard from everyone from executives on down that the brands wanted to be demonstrating to customers that they were listening, that they were trying to show value in what they were doing. And, you know, they were well aware that, you know, due to various factors that, you know, pricing and positioning for a lot of brands has moved to a place that has made some folks on the consumer side, you know, uncomfortable.

4:33And so, indeed, you know, we heard from, you mentioned Cartier, and we heard from some Cartier executives telling us that they're listening very closely to their clients and customers and trying to connect with them and give them, you know, what they want. And, you know, that was one of the reasons they said they brought back the Roadster is that that is what some clients were asking for. And, you know, for me, I think one watch, though, that maybe stood out as, you know, sort of separate from that trend was the Parmesan du Fleurier, P.F. Tonda Chronograph Mysterio, which was, you know, in some ways an iteration on a sort of design language and a, you know, technology that we first saw with the GMT Retropont and then we saw with the Minute Retropont.

5:26But it was still surprising and sort of revelatory to see that done with a chronograph with five hands on a single axis there. And yet continuing to have that sort of elegant, refined, quiet luxury design language that the brand has made its own over the past little while. So I think, you know, and so there's a steel watch that costs about$44 ,000, which sounds really expensive. But at the same time, I think, you know, it was innovative and new and yet, you know, still working within that scope that the brand has sort of established for itself. So, yeah, I mean, I think I agree. It was very much a client-focused, customer-focused, commercial-driven sort of batch of new watches.

6:23But, you know, the level of enthusiasm and openness was surprising to me, considering sort of where we are in the world right now with geopolitics and uncertainty and so forth. So we're going to be talking to Rolf Schroeder from Oris, and you talk about value and sort of, you know, iterating on what works for the brand. You know, they brought some interesting, just a couple of pieces to the show this year. I know you're a big fan of Oris. Yeah, what did you make of what we saw from them?

6:57Rolf Studer:Yeah, you know, as you know, I very much have a soft spot for Oris. You know, they're a brand, I think, that sticks to their own lane, if you will, not, and that kind of sounds a little harsh. No, I just mean like, you know, they have their own sort of values and philosophy and design language, and they just kind of stick to it. And as a result, I think they've sort of carved themselves a niche where, you know, sometimes it's easy to forget that they're an independent brand that kind of caters to a very unique price point for an independent brand. And I think that's really, really special. And so I think this year, I would say the two highlights for me were two watches that kind of stick at completely opposite ends of the spectrum.

7:42Rolf Studer:And I think that's kind of cool for a launch strategy in the year. So, you know, I think the first one is the Aorus Star Edition, which is, you know, a vintage reissue of a 35mm watch from 1966. and when we saw it in person, you know, I remember remarking, like, I was like, wow, like this really feels like a vintage watch from 1966, right? They, I think they really got, you know, I think it's easy to just get the technical specs correct on trying to do a reissue, but they somehow got this sort of charm in that watch that I haven't seen in a lot of brands that have tried to do something like this.

8:20Rolf Studer:So I think that was really great to see. And, you know, I think most importantly, the Star Edition brings forward a story that's so important to Oris, you know, and I believe you will be talking about this a little bit later in the show, so I won't kind of spoil it. But long story short, I mean, this watch is meant to celebrate, you know, an anniversary of Oris being able to make Swiss lever escapements for their watches, you know, before they were really held back in that regard due to some really interesting laws and lobbying. So again, I won't spoil anything. But long story short, the Star Edition is here to celebrate that anniversary and to celebrate a man called Dr.

8:58Rolf Studer:Rolf Portman, who was initially hired on as a lawyer to fight this, eventually, you know, came to acquire Auris and is now, I believe, the brand's honorary chairman. So, you know, here to celebrate this really important part of Auris heritage that I think is really, really cool. But, you know, you have a 35 millimeter case, which you don't really see that often anymore. You even have an acrylic crystal, which, you know, I'm personally of the broad, you know, broad opinion that modern reissues should still be using sapphire, but I 100%, you know, I 100 % understand the decision here. But again, it just feels like a new old stock vintage watch, which I think is great.

9:38Rolf Studer:And usually we see these reissues come in a bit larger than the original. So I'm really glad they kind of just stuck to the classic. It's not identical. I believe the dial, you know, some typefaces are different. You have some, you know, I believe you have the more sort of traditional, you know, dial text of like automatic and stuff like that where the original had something a bit more stylized. But I would assume, you know, that's maybe down to, you know, typeface licensing and whatnot. But it's a decent price point, you know,$2 ,300 with a Selita-based movement inside. Sure, you're not beating, you know, micro brands, but micro brands don't have the exact heritage, you know, that they're referencing here.

10:16Rolf Studer:So I think it's nice that it's not a limited edition. So I think it'll sit well as a, you know, kind of a unique option within the Aorus catalog, right? When you go to an Aorus display, seeing that little guy kind of amongst everything else, it's a nice bit of refreshing, you know, horology there. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, no, it does certainly give that nice, you know, different case shape and size option in the permanent catalog. And yeah, I mean, it reminds us of Oris's important historical position in the Swiss industry and its long term position as sort of, you know, a bit of an outsider and independent that had to fight for everything that it's received and continues to do so today.

11:01And so I think you'll hear more of that from our conversation with Rolf Studer. So yeah, the Star wasn't the only new release we saw from Aorus this year at Watches and Wonders. We also got a sort of redesign of the Artelier, which is another sort of dressier watch that's long been in the catalog. And yeah, we saw it in quite a different form and factor from Aorus this year. What did you make of that one?

11:31Rolf Studer:Yeah, I think, you know, as I mentioned before, the Artelier, and specifically, I think I want to focus on the new Artelier complication. You know, so I believe they came out with a few sort of time-only versions. They brought back, you know, the business calendar and some larger Arteliers. But the Artelier complication is the other launch that I mentioned that sits on the other end of the spectrum opposite of the Aorus Star Edition. You know, whereas the Star Edition, Aorus kind of pays tribute to an iconic figure in the brand's history. They're really championing a new young designer for this Artelier, which I think is really, really interesting.

12:06Rolf Studer:And it shows in the designs. The new watches, they're credited to a 24-year-old product designer at Oris. And I apologize if I mispronounce his name, but it goes to a young woman called Lena Heweiler. And you get a very modern dial design with a moon phase at 12, a second time zone sub-dial at 6. it's very much cleaned up from a lot of the artilliers which you've seen in the past which i would argue honestly felt a little dated at this point um so i think this is a really fresh revival of this line and you know for me something that's really important to me in watch design is typography um it's something that i think most brands don't get right or at least don't get you know 90 right and i think the sort of new revamped typefaces for the artelier actually go a long, long way.

12:58Rolf Studer:And, you know, at$3 ,150 on bracelet, you know, there are some compromises for the watch to kind of hit that price point for Oris. You know, I think one thing to point out is you don't really have quick adjust for the moon phase, which we kind of saw when handling the watch. But aside from that, you know, I think the watch is a unique option for a moon phase and GMT, you know, combined at this price point. And I think it'll do really well to attract a newer and younger audience to Oris. I think that's what the brand certainly needs, right? When we think about Aorus as sort of collectors, we think about things like Diver 65, or we think about the Big Crown, ProPilots, Artelier.

13:37Rolf Studer:I think we don't really give a ton of love to, but I think Aorus has an opportunity now to take this line and kind of point it in a different direction. And I think this will get people that might not really know too much about watches really interested in something that's a little more complicated than they might be used to. Yeah, no, exactly. And I think what we heard from the designer herself was that, indeed, you know, she was attempting to make a watch. I think she's 24, so she's quite young. And she's certainly, you know, in that age bracket of the target group that they're looking to attract with this, which is like an urban sort of young audience.

14:16And, yeah, you know, very minimalist, quite understated, and yet, you know, offering a bit of value in terms of the complications and, you know, a moon phase used in a way that I think, you know, we don't necessarily sort of think of as being, you know, front and center as a complication there. So, yeah, it was quite a unique and interesting take on the artelier complication for sure. So, Tintin, thank you very much. That was always a pleasure to chat with you and get your take on things. And I hope it won't be long until I see you again soon.

14:58Rolf Studer:I'll see you on the next one. Thanks, Andy. And now, as we throw to our conversation with Rolf Studer, please note that this episode was recorded just before Watches and Wonders and before Rolf became the sole CEO of Oris, as his co-CEO Claudine Gertheiser moved up to the position of Deputy Chair while continuing her role on the financial ledger as Chief Financial Officer. So with all that said, here's our conversation with ORAS CEO Rolf Studer.

15:34Good morning. We are in Hulstein at the headquarters of ORAS And I am with Rolf Stüder, the co-chief executive officer of ORAS. Rolf, thank you for joining us on the Business of Watches. Hi, Andy. Good to have you. Thank you so much for welcoming me. This is my first time visiting your manufacturer and your headquarters here. And it is as envisioned. I mean, let's just talk about the color of the building here and the history of the building here. What should people know about Oris' home here? Well, we have been here in Hülstein since 1904. This was always our home since the beginning. This is where everything Oris starts.

16:24The color you're talking about is the color of the building, which is peach rose, which is our corporate color. It hasn't always been peach rose, but for a number of decades, and our chairman Ulrich at some point decided that he didn't want to have a boring gray building anymore, but that he wanted it to stand out a little bit more. That's why it's peach rose now. Indeed. And we see that. I got to visit your new retail store in Zurich last year. And indeed, we see that colorway, that theme continue there. And when we see you at Watches and Wonders, at least in the past, which is coming up just in a couple of weeks now, you carry on that colorway.

17:11And talk about, you know, what you do with your, you know, your booth and theme at Watches and Wonders. I mean, we were just chatting off mic here. And it's a different experience and feel that you're going for as compared to maybe some of the other brands. Yes, here we are near Basel. So for decades, we used to go to Baselworld, which was kind of our home, right? Then with Watch and Wonders coming up, it was quite a thing for us, honestly, to go to Geneva, to go there where watchmaking comes from, where the big old brands come from. We here from the Waldenberg Valley now go to Geneva. Honestly, I had a lot of respect doing that.

17:59But we decided to stay true to ourselves and go there with the values that we have, that we stand for. And in this show where we have the palazzos of all brands, the big houses, we decided to have not a castle, but a piazza. this piazza layout stands for a place of interaction of exchange of diversity a place where people meet and feel comfortable when you are in a hall often it's um yeah you feel that there is a master right uh you subordinate to something at all is you don't have to because we are on an eye-to-eye level with our customers and i believe this is what you feel when you come to our booth at Watches and Wonders.

18:51Yeah, and for those who don't know, I mean, AORUS obviously is a historic brand here in a part of Switzerland, which, you know, not the western part of Switzerland, not the part of Switzerland that we think of as the sort of center of watchmaking. You know, you're an approachably priced brand, you're independent. You know, talk about this location and why we are here in this part of Switzerland and what, you know, the sort of industrial history is here and how it ended up with a watch brand like Oris. The Waldenberg Valley used to be on the routes from Bern to Basel. Used to be that old transportway over the Hauenstein to the Waldenberg Valley.

19:40And at the beginning of the 20th century, they built a railroad from Bern to Basel. So that whole business that people had here looking after travelers vanished. At the same time, fashion changed. We also had an industry for colored ribbon bands, silk bands that people made here. And they went out of fashion. These colors, by the way, are the base of what today is the Basel pharmaceutical industry. Right, the chemical industry, which sort of evolved into the pharmaceutical industry. Absolutely. And local governments tried to take care of their people who were unemployed and incentivized entrepreneurs who created work.

20:29So they brought here people from the western part of Switzerland to open watchmaking facilities. This is how Oris was established in 1904, and that's where it all started. And, you know, that is certainly a sort of government-aided, government-facilitated initiative and program that ended up creating certainly this brand that persists today more than a century later. Let's jump to where we are in the current economic reality, being in Switzerland. You are a Swiss watchmaker in the Swiss industry. What role does government support and help play in the industry right now on both a local and a federal level?

21:21Obviously, we hear from every CEO that the strength of the Swiss franc is difficult. Yes, it's interesting how government was always involved in this industry. just talked about the origins of Horace, then the watch statutes, the watch cartel in Switzerland that was started in 1934, then was abandoned under the leadership of Horace, actually. Indeed. Well, let's talk about this. I mean, this has, yeah, this is a sort of key moment in Horace's history. And talk about the people that were involved with this and how Horace sort of led a legal fight or a lobbying challenge to really transform the structure of the Swiss industry.

22:12Yes, following the economical crisis of the 1920s in 1934, there was a law imposed that led to the regulation of the watch industry and in the case of Oris, kept us at making pin lever movements, which were good movements, but not movements of superior quality. So you couldn't make movements with Swiss lever escape. Exactly. And obviously, leadership at Oris, Mr. Herzog, who was CEO for many decades, from the 1920s to the 1970s, he wanted to challenge that and fight that. So he hired Dr. Portman in 1956, who was a long lawyer being the son of the sales director of Oris at the time. And he was tasked with lobbying against that law.

23:07Took him 10 years. And in 1965, the law was weakened to a level that Oris could present in 1966, the first Swiss lever escapement movement, which was a big victory for Oris. Indeed. And it's interesting, you're tying that back to a current offering or a novelty, the Oris Star. I mean, talk about how that new watch sort of calls back and reminds us of that critical moment and victory in Oris's history. I think this historical moment really shows who we are and shows our spirit, right? Independence is core to who we are and trying to strive for the next level, doing things better. This is what makes us.

24:00Even though we had to make, we were forced to make pin lever movements, we brought them to a level of quality that we got chronometer certificates for them. This is the spirit at Oris. So to be able now to make Swiss lever escapement watches was really a big moment for us. And this we celebrate this year with an anniversary edition. We celebrate six years of the abandonment of the Swiss watch cartel with the Oris Star that we will show and launch at Watches and Wonders that's coming up very soon. Indeed. And talk about, you know, the design of that watch. We were just taking a look at it. And to me, it looks very classic.

24:42It's got sort of a, not a traditional round case, but it, you know, it certainly makes me think back to that era of the 60s and 70s. Very cool design, but quite minimalist too. But as you were saying, I mean, at the time, it was kind of, you were pushing things forward in terms of, you know, producing a watch looking like that. Yeah, now you look at this watch and it looks like a vintage piece, right? But at the time it was very modern, very contemporary. Classic watches at the time were round and golden. And this watch is of steel and in a cushion shape. So very much forward driven as we always were showing that we always want to reach for the next level.

25:31And yeah, this spirit is with Oris to this day. Indeed. And let's talk about, you know, being an independent brand, because I think that that position and that image of independent brands has certainly come into focus a lot more in the pandemic and post pandemic era with, you know, consumers being better informed about the brands and who's making their watches and where they come from. So talk about, you know, it's actually quite unusual for a watchmaker of your size and with your history to be independent. What role do you see a sort of volume brand like Oris, an approachably priced brand like Oris, having as an independent these days?

26:18What does it mean to be independent and a, you know, historical Swiss watchmaker? It's really interesting how the role of independence has changed over the past few years. I remember when I went to China 10 or 12 years ago, they didn't really want me to talk about that so much because it was a sign of strength to belong to a group. and only recently that has changed also in china that they want me to talk about that because it's a sign of an individual approach of heart blood of passion of emotion to be independent and i think this is very much true if you have a role within a group that's defined and this is the limits of what you can do it is such a different situation to who we are independently owned free to develop whatever we want only responsible to the brands and to doing the right thing for the next generation there is so much energy coming from being independent and at oris it really defines who we are and also for me it's very important also as a culture within our organization i don't want to have people with the same opinion i want to have a team with the same attitude and everyone is free to have their opinion if you have the same attitude you go you push into the same direction with what you're good at and not limited to what someone tells you to do.

28:09And I think this is really what makes us and makes a big difference to if you're just in a conglomerate of some kind. And to me, it's a very important part of my personal quality of work and also quality of life. Indeed. And, you know, talk about how many people, how many employees you have here, how many watches that Oris produces a year. I think Morgan Stanley estimates between 30 and 40 ,000 with revenue of around 50 million Swiss francs. There's been a lot of talk about the Morgan Stanley estimates lately. Talk about the size of your operation and what you think about those published numbers.

28:51Yes, we are about 90 people here. We are about 200 around the world. We are a very lean organization. We have to be as an independent company. We do everything ourselves from finance to IT to product development, things that when you are within a group, you have shared services. This is all on our own when you're truly independent like we are. Yes, the Morgan Stanley report has been very much a topic of discussion. We don't publish our numbers. So I don't think it's fair to comment on that or to complain about it. Either you publish your numbers, then it's clear, or you let them do their work and their analysis.

29:41But to comment on that while not giving details to these figures, I don't think is the right thing to do. Fair enough. You are a privately held company and have every right to do so for sure. Being an independent, privately held company, it's interesting though. I mean, obviously the trend or trajectory of the industry over the past decade or so has been lower volume, more price, premiumization. Oris has, you know, certainly decided to stick within its price point and at times has moved up a bit. But, I mean, talk about, you know, that decision and why you haven't, you know, decided to premiumize like so many others.