The Business of Watches [027] Angelus and Arnold & Son CEO Pascal Béchu

0:00Pascal Béchu:Welcome to the Business of Watches, the Hodiki podcast where horology meets high finance and we talk to the executives driving the industry. This week we're in La Chaux-de-Fant to speak with Pascal Béchu, who heads both the Arnold & Son and the Angelus brands. They're both Swiss-based assets owned by Japan's Citizen Group, and they are very different brands. Angelus is a revived historic Swiss mark known for its chronographs that won a GPHG for its chronograph telemetre last year. Arnold & Son is a very different story, a revived take on the work of John Arnold, one of the UK's most important historical watchmakers.

0:46Pascal Béchu:We talked to Baitu about how he manages both these very different brands in today's challenging market. But first, a bit of business news. We had Richemont's full-year financial results last week, and they were a mixed bag. Led by Carchet, Van Van Cleef & Arpel, Richemont's jewelry division remains the main sales and profit driver for the Swiss-based luxury conglomerate. We also got some insight into the watch market from the company that owns Vacheron Constantin, Gégère Le Coutre, and IWC. Middle East sales have been hit hard by the conflict in the region. with overall sales dropping 3 % in the fourth quarter between January and March, as tourists in Dubai have abandoned the region, at least temporarily.

1:37Pascal Béchu:The U.S., though, remains defiantly strong, with sales in the Americas up 17 % year-over-year and 18 % in the fourth quarter. While the specialist watchmakers division sales fell 4 % year-over-year, They were up 2 % in the fourth quarter at constant currencies, and the company cited strong performance from Vacheron, Gégère, among others. Speaking of Gégère, Richmond chairman Johan Rupert quashed reports that the company was considering a sale of JLC. Don't believe it, Rupert told analysts and media on a conference call. So, now the question is how the U.S. market holds up if higher gas and food prices persist.

2:22Pascal Béchu:We'll get more insight as Richemont reports its next sales report in the summer. And now, here's our conversation with Pascal Béchoux, the CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus.

2:43Pascal Béchu:Pascal Béchoux, the CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus. We are in La Joupore. You showed us around the facilities today, and we saw your operation for the first time. Thank you very much for welcoming us here. Thank you very much, Andy. That's a pleasure to have you here. I would like to say finally, because we know each other for some time, and that's the first time that you come and visit us. So thank you for being with us today. Indeed. Yeah, we have known each other for a long time. You are a constant presence here in the Swiss watch industry. But for those who don't know Arnold & Son and Angelus, they're two brands, and you had them both.

3:31Pascal Béchu:They are related brands, but they are quite separate in their history and quite separate in the kind of timepieces they make. So let's start with Arnold & Son, which is the, you know, the higher end and, you know, basically a British-UK brand in its origin with John Arnold. Talk about, you know, what Arnold & Son is. Yes, so Arnold & Son is the oldest watch brand between the two. Actually, it's even one of the oldest watch brands in the industry. The brand has been founded in 1764 in London and John Arnold is recognized as one of the greatest watchmakers, not only of the 18th century, but I would say globally.

4:17You have to put yourself back in the 18th century. Navigation back in those years were critical, especially for the British Empire, for an island, being able to connect all the territories, connect the different continents, facilitate the trade. And that's the reason why the British government decided to pass the Longitude Act in 1714, giving a reward to whoever would be providing a technique, a solution to be able to calculate the longitude.

4:58Pascal Béchu:It was a contest. Yeah, it was a contest. But a very important one. Very important one. It was really strategic for the country. And the first one who did it was John Harrison. And he created the H1, which is really a piece of history of watchmaking, but a very massive clock, very fragile, took him two years to make this prototype. And as you can imagine, it's not something easy to move from one ship to another. And John Arnold, approximately 30 years after, in 1770, John Arnold came with an instrument, a marine instrument of his making that was actually much more compact. So he really improved the creation of the mechanism, simplified, make it more accurate and also much easier to replicate.

5:56So in six months, he managed to make 30 of those instruments. And this is giving the tone, really, of what has been the work of John Arnold, improving the accuracy, the reliability of timepieces of his time, and making the longitude, which was an issue for the British Empire, an opportunity, actually, back in those years to dominate the oceans of the world, actually. And how did then John Arnold get to where we are today with Arnold and Son and this brand?

6:32Pascal Béchu:I mean, you know, talk about that evolution and how it ends up as a Swiss-based company owned by Japan Citizen Group. So this is only one of the chapters of the very rich history of John Arnold. There's been many others. We could speak about the first chronometer made by John Arnold, the Arnold No. 36 in 1779, praised as the most precise timepiece ever made. We could have speak also about his friendship with Abraham Le Breguet and another great watchmaker of the 18th century. But beyond all those achievements, John Arnold also had a son, actually, that happened to be trained by Mr. Breguet himself as a watchmaker.

7:18When John Arnold was doing the opposite, training the son of Mr. Breguet. And the son of John Arjun, John Roger Arnold, continued the work of his father. That's why we have not only Arnold, but Arnold and son. and the company stopped production around 1860 because John Roger Arnold had no children, so no continuity in the brand back in those years. And the brand came back in Switzerland in the mid-90s through a company that was called in those years British Masters and that was the company actually that relaunched the brand Gram and Arnold & Son. So the idea was really to bring back at the forefront British watchmaking.

8:11Everyone has to remember that watchmaking mainly happened in London and Paris before moving to Switzerland. And America. And America as well. That's correct, Andy. So this company, British Masters, relaunched both brands. And the manufacturer, La Jouperet, decided to acquire Arnold Hanson. The manufacturer was back in the late 90s and beginning of the year 2000, a supplier of the brand in terms of movement.

8:47Pascal Béchu:Yes, and they still are today. And we are at basically the La Jouperet manufacturer in the show de fond. But yes, so they acquired the brand in the 1990s. They acquired the brand. And the manufacturer itself has been acquired by Citizen Group one year after, in 2012. And pretty much as the manufacturer, La Jouperet, there's a completely new management that came on board, also on the brand side, in 2020. And that's what you've seen over the last six years of big change and development of Arnold Lenson, but Angelus as well. And Angelus as well. And then, yeah, I mean, you know, let's talk about Angelus as well.

9:34Pascal Béchu:You're also in charge of that brand. And how does Angelus fit into it at all? And Angelus made, you know, big headlines last year by winning GPHG for the Chronograph Prize for its Telemetra in gold. Congratulations. But yeah, let's talk about the evolution of Angelus and how it fits in. Thank you, Andy. So, Angelos, it's a Swiss brand from the very beginning, created in Le Locke, so very close from where we are today. Back in 1891, the brand became instantly the specialist for chronographs and repeaters. Afterwards, you had additional complications that came to the stable of movement that the brand had, like alarm, calendar watches, long power reserve movement.

10:32That's really the kind of mechanism for which the brand was very well known. And the brand was known for its own collection, but also for providing movements to other brands. And probably some of the most iconic collaborations were maybe with Tiffany, with Long Power Reserve Movement in the 30s and 40s. Tiffany, the famed U.S. jewelry brand, indeed. Panerai also? Panerai, yes. The first chronograph prototype, Marinostrum, was equipped with a movement from Angelus, but also the diving wedges made for the Italian Navy were equipped with movement from Angelus, long power reserve movement. So that's also collaboration that helped developing the awareness, the fame of the brand among clients and later collectors.

11:41Pascal Béchu:How does it end up where it is today? Yes, so the brand stopped production in the late 70s during the... During the quartz crisis? The quartz crisis. Or the quartz revolution, however we want to see it. Exactly. And the brand has been purchased by the manufacturer La Jouperet in 2011. Actually, you had at the manufacturer, one of the person from the management that was an absolute passionate of Angelus brand, a big collector. Right. And he decided to, together with the management of the manufacturer, to purchase the brand and relaunch the brand. So 2011 is the purchase of the brand, but 2015 is the first year of the launch of the new timepiece from Angelus.

12:31But this decision has been taken at that time only to work with Tourbillon. So they really wanted to work on the very innovative side of the brand. Only Tourbillon with performance materials, so playing with titanium, with carbon composite, carbon fiber, being very innovative. And this was also a window of the know-how of the manufacturer of La Jouperet, obviously.

13:03Pascal Béchu:So at that time, the relaunch of Angelus watches, they were quite innovative, quite forward-thinking, quite modern, right? Very much, very much. That's not how the brand is today. No, the brand today, so in 2020, when the new management for both brands came on board, I mean, we first worked on Arnold Lenson to redevelop the collection, because I think the idea of the strategy was very clear. On Angelus, we needed to dip more into the brand to get a better understanding of what were really the roots of the brand, because the brand, how it was relaunched in 2011, 2015 was very different from the history of the brand.

13:52And that's the moment we decided to come back with one of the iconic complications of the brand, which is the chronograph. So first with the chronodate, which is a modern version of the historical timepiece from 1942, which was the first chronograph featuring a date and after featuring a full calendar. So in a case which is fully made of carbon composite and titanium. So we keep those DNA of the very innovative New Angelus that has been launched in 2015, but connecting back with one of the historical complications of the brand. So this was in 2022, Watchers and Wonders, when we launched this collection.

14:36And then 2023, another milestone in the relaunch of the brand with the introduction of the La Fabrique collection. So the idea of La Fabrique collection is beyond this very modern pillar pillar that we have with the chronodate and the tourbillon, it's to come with re-edition of historical models. So, either historical models that really existed, so like what we did in 2023 with the doctor's watch, really directly inspired from the original 1962 medical chronograph.

15:15Pascal Béchu:And quickly, you know, what made the doctor's watch, which is a chronograph, what made it the doctor's watch? So many, many things. So first of all, you had the pulsometer scale together with an atmometric scale. So to calculate the rate of your breathing and the pulse. It was a monopusher also, which also had a function because the doctor has one hand to take the pulse, the other one to manipulate the chronograph. So easier if you have the start-stop reset on the same pusher. So that was really what was very special about this timepiece. The design of it with an outstanding legibility also of the pulsations.

16:06And that was the first very successful launch of this collection. and the relaunch also within the brand of the caliber Angelus 5000, which is our monopusher chronograph that has an outstanding legacy because that's a chronograph that is owned by our manufacturer, but that has not been developed by Angelus or manufacturer La Joupere. It's a caliber that takes its heritage from a company called THA and three very important, yes, famous watchmakers that has been afterwards modified because the original caliber was made for Cartier Tortue Monopusher by Mr. Journe, Flageolet and Vianney Halter. so just to be clear

17:09Pascal Béchu:Vianney Halter Denis Flageolet Abdi Béthune and François Paul Joran of FP Joran so we have three living legends I would say of watchmaking and after there's been other variation of this of this monopusher of this monopusher made for for some other brands and when those three gentlemen decided to split because each one was then in the late 90s creating its own brand, its own business under its brand name. Then the manufacturer acquired the blueprints and the rights on this movement that has been also further improved by our manufacturer and which is now made by the, with our manufacturer and that you have in the La Fabrique collection that you had in this medical chronograph that you had also in the following chapter in 2024, which was the speed instrument, instrument de vitesse.

18:17So it was a one minute chronograph with the tachymeter inspired by all GT cars, dashboards. So just to time the speed with the tachymeter and that we have also in the telemetre, so the chronograph that won the TPHD last year in November 2025 and that was an outstanding recognition because as I explained to you chronograph is really one of the key complications of the brand so getting this award for a chronograph means so much for the Angelus team, for the brand so that's another milestone, I would say, in the story of the brand and the relaunch of the brand.

19:08Pascal Béchu:For sure. I mean, it's a milestone for the relaunch of Angelus, but it's also a milestone for La Jupore and for the Citizen Group, the parent owner, because that is the first GPHG that the group has won, and it was Angelus. So it was quite important. Am I right? Was it important do you think for all the You're very right Andy it was important for the team here for the manufacturer also that worked very very hard on this on this caliber on this timepiece with our teams and everyone also takes a lot of pride from this award also in in Japan with the citizen group with our owners that yeah Yeah, you're right.

20:00That was a great reward for everyone within the group and working on the brand.

20:07Pascal Béchu:It's also interesting to me to think about, and tell me when you got involved with the brand, because it's interesting that, you know, the relaunch of Angelus was going in one direction, but it's really found, you know, success and recognition by sort of leaning into its heritage and its great history and producing watches, perhaps that, you know, recall that history a little bit more. What does that tell us about relaunching and bringing back brands, do we think? So I've been fortunate to join the two brands in January 2021. So being part of the new team that has been put in place. I was at the very beginning the sales director for both brands.

20:55And it's in May 2024 that I took the helm of both brands. You know, with Angelus, we had on certain territories, and especially in the US, already built in almost 10 years, a first community of clients, of new clients with those modern collections. and Angelus had really a very unique offering with very innovative timepieces at very strong price point. To give you an idea, even nowadays, we have skeletonized flying tourbillon with a carbon composite titanium case, three different straps with a quick release system, limited... Very modern. Very modern design with each one limited in 25 pieces, so very exclusive as well.

22:00Retailing for less than 50 ,000 Swiss francs. You have no offering on the market with this type of product at this price point. So that's definitely a clientele that we wanted to keep. and you cannot go from one day to the other from the modern Angelos to the La Fabrique. You have also to create face to come to this La Fabrique and vintage timepieces collection. So that's why we had also the chronodate and it's interesting to see that there's some markets where it's, I would say, 100 % full speed on the La Fabrique collection but you have some markets where we have really a good mix of sales between the modern and the vintage collection.

22:54So our objective is not to leave behind all this modern DNA but I think both can really be together and our objective also having those two collections was to connect the new customer of Angelus together with all these old collectors of vintage pieces from Angelus that were purchasing vintage chronodate, vintage Tinkler, chronographs, and bring them to what is the brand nowadays through the La Fabrique collection. That was really the objective behind our strategy.

23:36Pascal Béchu:And what kind of price range are we talking for Angeles? And can you talk about approximately how many watches you're making a year? So we are very exclusive because the relaunch at the end is very recent. So we have a production of around 300 pieces, all limited. We have less than 25 dollars worldwide. So also a very reduced network of clients. On the modern range, we have a starting price point around 23 ,000 Swiss francs for the chronodate in titanium and carbon composite, which goes up to less than 50 ,000 for the tourbillon skeletonized also in titanium and carbon. And then on the La Fabrique, everything is pretty much between$16 ,000 for the steel version up to$32 ,000 for the gold versions of our La Fabrique product.

24:44So we are also positioned on the high-end segment. We have small, I mean, limited production. Almost all pieces in limited editions are numbered. And we end up, you know, working with many similar clients that we are working with for Arnold Lenson as well. So you have synergies. There's no obligation. There's no politics that if you take one brand, you have to take the other one. We give lots of freedom. But very often we start collaboration with someone with one of the two brands and they're happy of the collaboration, happy of working with us. dynamism we bring behind the two brands and naturally, very often, the collaboration expands to the other brands as well.

25:37Yes. That's how it works.

25:38Pascal Béchu:With the success that you had with the Chronograph, with the Telemetre that won the GPHG, which was, you know, I think you said to me, you certainly weren't sure it was going to win. It was a very competitive category. So when that happens, what do you do? Is there a reaction? I mean, how do you take advantage of that success? What should we expect, if anything, from that? Because it was a limited edition, basically, quite small production, and they're all gone, I'm pretty sure. So, it was interesting because the week following the reward, there was Dubai Watch Week happening with a presentation of all the watches that have been awarded.

26:27inside the show, literally in front of the Angelus booth. So it was great because we could see the enthusiasm of people looking at the timepiece, coming to our booth to really look and wear the timepiece. Almost all pieces were already delivered by then, but not all of them were already sold through. So that was definitely the opportunity for the retailers that still had some pieces to sell them through. And it was an outstanding spotlight on the brand. That's very, very interesting. I have a nice anecdote about that. When we started Dubai Watch Week, of course, we kept an international launch for Dubai Watch Week.

27:17but with the craziness of GBHG, etc., I completely forgot it. You forgot about the launch there. And then on the first day of Dubai Watch Week, I see on Instagram and etc., the launch of our new version of the skeletonized tourbillon. So, you know, the super modern tourbillon, orange edition. so just the complete contrasts of the brand versus the timepiece that won the GPHD just the week before and it was amazing to see this contrast I even wondered how people would react because maybe they will be mainly coming to see us on the booth to see the chronograph telemetre But at the end, that has been a very successful launch as well because customers really loved both pieces.

28:16So the same customer that maybe just a week before texted me on Instagram telling me, congrats, I love the chronograph telemed, so well deserved, etc. Just one week after, sent me a message. Wow, excellent, beautiful. I love this timepiece as well. And it was just the proof that both universes can live together and even at the end appeal to the same customer.

28:46Pascal Béchu:So I think what you're saying there, though, is that, you know, we shouldn't necessarily expect more of the same. You know, the brand is what it is and it has many different offerings, I guess. But I think, you know, yeah, I don't know. We have definitely plans to further grow the global collection of the brand. When I mentioned to you at the beginning of the conversation of the historical complication of the brand, you see that there's a lot that we can bring back from our archives. and definitely our objective in the future, even in the very short term, will be to come as well with additional outstanding complications that made the fame of the brand and that will further nourish as we did with the chronograph so far and explain the beautiful heritage of this brand to all our collectors nowadays.

29:53Pascal Béchu:So that sounds like we might see a repeater. It sounds that it could be a repeater coming soon. Very good. Well, you have your timeline for when you release things, and indeed, we'll let you stick to it. You know, Arnold & Son is a very different brand than Angelus, but you had them both, and they're both here in the same building and manufacturer. talk about what Arnold & Son is today what kind of watches you're making what kind of price range you are and then who your clientele is I think famously last year we saw Ed Sheeran wearing one of your watches on the cover of a magazine talk about what did that mean for the brand of anything and yeah talk about Arnold & Son that was a great surprise and that was a great present that he made to us.

30:56So Ed Sheeran is literally a customer of the brand, a friend of the brand, but customer of the brand. He is passionate about watchmaking. He's known as a very skilled collector. Yes, for sure. And when he had the opportunity to see this Constant Force Troubillon that we were launching a few months after, he said immediately, as a British collector, passionate about this watchmaking, I have to get this timepiece in my collection. And he got his piece just before Watchers and Bonders. and we've been surprised just before Watchers and Wonders to see the issue of Forbes coming out and with H.E. Ron wearing on the cover the Patek and in the interview and the section inside the magazine twice his concern for Storbihan.