The Business of Watches [035] Christie's Remi Guillemin On The Fundamental Shifts In The Auction Market Driving Record Prices

0:00Welcome to the Business of Watches, the Hodinkee podcast where we talk to the players and go behind the scenes to find out what's making the watch industry tick. Today, I am in Geneva with the head of watches at Christie's for North America, Europe and the Middle East, Remi Guillemin. Merci. Thank you for joining me. Welcome to the Business of Watches.

0:25Remi Guillemin:Thank you, Andy, for having me. Excellent. So we are basically halfway through the year in terms of the auction season. We've done the spring. It has been records all over the place. What's going on with watch auctions? Because, you know, the rest of the world is a little uncertain. There's lots of geopolitical conflict, but the watch auction market has proven very strong. What's happening? Well, you're right, Andy. 2026 has been a very incredible start of the year. We ended 2025 quite strong, you know, but 2026 has been, you know, full of positive surprises. What we're seeing overall is a shift from collectors who were buying, you know, luxury wristwatches to, you know, really focusing on things that are quite specific.

1:21Remi Guillemin:So it's really quality over quantity or, for example, instead of buying a brand, collectors are focusing on very specific references. So super interesting. And it also is great because collectors are, you know, focusing on very different watches in general. Wrist watches from multiple brands we've seen and we'll probably discuss, you know, we've seen great records from different watchmakers. pocket watches as well. Very interesting for sophisticated collectors that are focusing on great products. And the geopolitical events that we've seen throughout the world, they, I think, have had an impact for sure on the world of watches.

2:11Remi Guillemin:But for auction, we have seen a focus on masterpieces and watches of great quality, which is why we've been able to see, especially at the top end of the market, some quite impressive results. Talk about how this market is different than, you know, the last time where things were this strong was, you know, 2020, 2021, right in the middle of COVID when, you know, it seemed like the entire world woke up to their interest in mechanical watches. How is it different this time? How are the buyers different? How are the references and the categories different and volumes as well? 2021, you know, and the post-COVID era, as you rightly mentioned, was kind of a very unusual environment.

3:04Remi Guillemin:You had a moment where so many buyers of luxury items and collectors as well wanted to focus on buying wristwatches and luxury items in general. As a result, you had a great amount of demand on modern timepieces, status wristwatches. And we saw this at auction and results of modern watches started spiking because there was kind of scarcity in the primary market, which reverberated in the secondary market. So we mean, you know, things like, you know, Patek Nautilus, Rolex Daytona, Audemars Piguet, Royal Oak, classic, or what we think of as the hype desirable watches. 100%. What we're seeing today is quite different.

3:53Remi Guillemin:We have historical collectors and collectors who have been buying extremely regularly in the industry focus on very specific timepieces. They focus on very specific timepieces which are virtually unattainable and cannot be found on, you know, any given retailer or Chrono24. Exactly. So as a result, when such timepieces come up at auction or the private sales, there is competition and the collectors understand what they're doing. you know they're quite well advised and as a result the watches end up performing nicely what is interesting as well is the depth and knowledge of the collectors who are buying they're really not buying a brand anymore they're buying a watchmaker they're buying hand finishing enamelling so there's a diversity of criteria that enters into the collector's mind today when they wish to acquire a very special object.

4:59Remi Guillemin:You know, we briefly discussed the beginning of 2026, the results that we've seen at auction. Of course, we speak about François-Paul Journe, we can speak about the results of Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet as well, who, you know, brought records for a monopusher chronograph in our Christie's auction. I mean, yeah, I mean, let's talk about those, you know, you could talk about your book and what you sold. I mean, how that reflects, you know, this new sentiment, this new era we are in the auction market. Yeah, well, I briefly mentioned these names, but we also saw incredible results, for example, for Frank Mueller wristwatches, very early pieces that we had in the catalog, or Daniel Roth, Urban Jurgensen.

5:47Remi Guillemin:So each of these specific watchmakers or brands have an appreciation or appreciated by collectors for different reasons. And it goes back to the fundamentals, innovation, hand finishing, ingenuity when it comes to crafting an incredible complication. Has the watchmaker impacted or is perceived as impacting the world of watches? You know, all of these things come into the criteria for a collector to decide to bid on a specific wristwatch rather than what we could have seen in the past being, okay, this wristwatch retails for $50 ,000. The secondary market is$250 ,000. Is it interesting for me to buy it or not so that I can wear a wristwatch that is identifiable as a luxury wristwatch?

6:38Remi Guillemin:So it's a completely different world that we're in, which I believe is much healthier for the perennity of the watch market in general and the world of auctions, of course. It's interesting. And indeed, you know, the collector has become more refined or, you know, the taste and the interest has become more refined, more educated. Are there new buyers in the market? Are there new whales, as it were? And is there new money flowing? So, of course, the watch auctions for auction houses, and I'll speak for Christie's because I work at Christie's, are a huge source of new customers for auction houses.

7:20Remi Guillemin:So roughly in a watch auction at Christie's, there is about 30 something-ish percent of new customers per sale globally, wherever it's in New York or in our great Hong Kong auctions as well. So it is higher than other categories and therefore watches being so discussed right now, you know, you open your Instagram, you see celebrities wearing incredible wristwatches, you know, on a daily basis. Now, it does bring a lot of new customers in the world of watches, which is also great. In terms of buyer demographics in our auctions, millennials and Gen X are the most represented generations in our sales globally as well, which I thought is quite interesting.

8:10Remi Guillemin:And it also shows that these young customers are arriving in force in the industry. And this is also quite positive for the future of the category as a whole. You're seeing new people come in and, you know, they're here to stay. And you also see that these customers, as we discussed, they study the timepieces they want to buy. They're connected with Instagram, with WhatsApp. up, they discuss, they love the sense of community in the world of watches. So they discuss all the catalogs as soon as they receive them, they share them. So there is this entire community effects, which is absolutely great for new collectors to have feedback about the pieces that, you know, are in front of them, understand them, and also, you know, to kind of keep the industry connected.

9:03Indeed. And, you know, this strength and these, you know, continuous records that we're having, though, I mean, you know, it wasn't that long ago that it was 2021 and then 2022, and that's where the market turned. You know, what's different this time, though? And, you know, the fact that the market seems quite interested in independent makers, makers of, you know, model lines that there aren't very many around. Does this have anything to do with trusting the provenance and the authenticity of, you know, vintage Rolex or other major brands that, you know, we've obviously there's been certain high profile problems within the past?

9:48Remi Guillemin:Yeah, I think the most important thing for collectors to bid at auction is transparency. They want to understand what they're bidding on and they don't want to have any surprises once the lot is purchased. So the reason why we sell around, you know, 900 watches in six months at Christie's globally is because we really curate our auctions and we carefully select the timepieces that we want to display in catalogs when we know that, you know, they are irreproachable of quality. So this is something we really strive for and it has a tremendous impact, which goes back to what you were saying. Modern watches or neo-vintage watches have been made, you know, in a fairly recent era.

10:35Remi Guillemin:Watchmakers in general have great archives. They're able to trace back, you know, services, what has happened with the watch. we sold François-Paul Jaune Tourbillon reference tea from 2001 in the Geneva sale and it is exactly what you said. Collectors before the sale, you know, just before bidding were asking, Remy, how many times has the watch been for service? Has something happened to it? You know, do you know what they did during the service? So we really had to do a thorough detailed analysis of the condition of the timepiece. Thankfully, watchmakers have great archives as well, or at least some of them.

11:17Remi Guillemin:So we were able to trace back, you know, what happened to the wristwatch from A to Z, and it ended up doing over$3 million versus an estimate of$500 ,000, which it would not have been the case if we had absolutely zero information on the timepiece. So transparency is important. describing the wristwatch and the expertise provided on the wristwatch is of massive importance as well. And it directly impacts the auction results or results in the secondary market. And, you know, you talked about that volume that you do, you know, about 900 watches that you've done so far. That is, I think, how does that compare to the volume at the sort of peak in 2021, 22?

12:04Remi Guillemin:Yeah, so it is actually a much lower volume because we do less online sales, you know, in order to really make sure that we curate everything to the best possible, you know, of our capacity and to offer fresh, you know, to the market product to our clients when we do our standalone sales or our live auctions in Geneva, Hong Kong and the US. So less volume, but roughly equal numbers, which is quite interesting. Yeah, no, I mean, it speaks to the sort of quality and pricing of the pieces that you're doing at the moment. But, you know, when a piece sells at auction and makes headlines and records, this is an event.

12:52There's not anything that's much more public than a watch auction. In fact, by law, anybody can attend a watch auction. It's a public event. But another part of the business is private sales, and these are sales we don't hear about. Talk about what the private sale market is for auction houses right now like Christie's. And, you know, tell me, you know, why would someone sell a watch privately or buy a watch privately? And why would they sell and or buy a watch at auction? What are the, you know, the differences, advantages and disadvantages?

13:28Remi Guillemin:Private sales is part of the business that has exponentially grown in the past three years at Christie's for watches. It is, as its name describes it, quite simple. If a collector has a wristwatch that he wishes to sell, you know, he can do it privately via our private sale via Christie's watches department and we will find, connect him with a buyer. So the advantages of doing a private sale is privacy. If a wristwatch is extremely recognizable, we are operating in a small world where everyone is connected, knows who's buying what, et cetera, et cetera. So it enables a client to sell, for example, without being seen, which is enjoyable for some.

14:20Remi Guillemin:It can also be a question of calendar. If a client doesn't want to wait for an auction, he can sell at any point. If he's not willing to take a risk of putting the watch at auction, he can decide to sell at a fixed price at private sales. So it is a different solution that we can offer our customers. However, they are complementary more than competitive, which is important. Yeah. And I mean, and so you've seen growth on the private side and then that's continuing to grow. And so that's adding to the overall sales? Exactly. You know, it has definitely grown tremendously in the past seasons. I think it's also linked to the buyers that we have or that have entered the market that are looking to build collections, maybe younger generations that could be perceived as a bit more impatient.

15:20Remi Guillemin:They want, you know, things to happen fast. So we have a solution that is tailored for every customer, which is quite good. I would say, however, that every private sell customer that we have purchased at auction, you know, which is quite interesting. Nothing beats the discovery of a new, fresh to the market wristwatch when you open a catalog or when you log on the auction's website and discover it for the first time. I mean, I want to get back to the current strength of the market and maybe sort of underline, you know, what we think is different this time. I mean, obviously, you know, as we said, prices surged, you know, some called it a bubble.

16:05You know, there's various aspects of the market. There's the auction market. There's the secondary market. There's the primary market. But I mean, you know, everybody saw a surge in interest and prices and then a pretty quick fall off. You know, is it different this time? You think it's more healthy? It's more sustainable? I mean, let's talk more about that. Why?

16:27Remi Guillemin:First of all, the pieces that are performing at auction are radically different. There's a difference between perceived rarity for a model that is still being sold by a watch manufacturer, you know, and still listed in the sale catalogs, and a wristwatch that is not sold anymore and that we know has been made in X quantity. The wristwatches that are performing amazingly well at auction today are unique creations, creations that have been created on an extremely small scale or extremely high quality vintage timepieces, which are, you know, extremely difficult to source today. So the dynamic is different because while in the past, for example, we would sell Tiffany blue 5711 018 in stainless steel with the Tiffany stamp, you know, and the turquoise blue dial for 3 million Swiss franc, you would see another one the week after on Chrono24, as you mentioned, or in a competing auction house or in the hands of a secondary market retailer.

17:38so it's a different dynamic.

17:41Remi Guillemin:Today the watches that we sell well cannot be found easily at all. We spoke briefly of the Audemars Piguet mono pusher that sold for a record price in Geneva is one of the handful. One of two or three. Exactly. Time pieces that were made by Audemars Piguet at a time where Audemars Piguet had a handful of watchmakers available. one of the wristwatches of the two timepieces known one of the wristwatch which is in a different configuration is at the Eau de Montpégay Museum the other one was in our auction so you know if you are interested in having this wristwatch in essence this is it. But at the same time we've seen records and you had a record for a Cartier crash earlier this year I mean you know when I I think of Cartier, I think of a big volume.

18:34I mean, in fact, they're the second biggest watchmaker by sales. Why is Cartier doing what it's doing in the auction market right now?

18:42Remi Guillemin:Cartier is performing incredibly well. The Cartier crash phenomenon is due to a multitude of factors. Aesthetical, it's quite a stunning wristwatch. It is a wristwatch that is not necessarily complex, you know, So fairly easy to comprehend for collectors of art, design, jewelry, wristwatches. So it speaks to an important pool of customers. And at the same time, the Cartier Crash is a stunning wristwatch made by one of the most reputable watchmakers and also not easy to access retail at all. The wristwatch that you mentioned, the Cartier Crash London that we had in Geneva that sold for over 2 million, we're talking about the peak of the pyramid.

19:32Remi Guillemin:Cartier London watches, again, are extremely scarce in production volume. The wristwatch that we had was of impeccable quality. A customer that would like to acquire one of the most important Cartier Crash wristwatches ever made would have to purchase this timepiece at auction. Should he be interested in it? Yeah, no doubt. Just sort of random question here. I mean, we talk about new money coming into the market and we talk about sort of, you know, changes in taste. Mark Zuckerberg, the founder of Facebook and the head of Meta, has become quite a high-profile watch collector and shown to have some pretty refined and interesting taste.

20:17when, you know, a billionaire class of that level, you know, is part of the collector community. Is this a good thing or a bad thing for the market?

20:27Remi Guillemin:It's a great thing because it brings great visibility on the market, you know, attracts new customers. You know, tech clients, for example, that wouldn't have thought about buying wristwatches, see Mark Zuckerberg buying or wearing a superb 60-62 in pink gold, a stelina dial, you know, something very specific made from the 50s, or a 1518 pink on pink, you know, at a gala, or I can't remember, I saw a picture. It gives great confidence to potential clients in the market, but it also brings a lot of visibility, which is great, especially when, from what I see, his tastes are so varied from independent.

21:11Rubeau 4C. FP Journe.

21:15Remi Guillemin:You know, it's very varied from independent washmaking to the peak of vintage washmaking as well. And I think it's only positive for the wash industry. But, you know, doesn't this suggest now, though, that if, you know, if we have more of this and more of that type of collector, that the traditional collectors are going to get priced out? I mean, you know, we'll go the way of the very high-end, top-echelon art market. Yeah. So I think the watch industry has such a variety of watches to offer that there are still watches that are undervalued in today's market. We speak about records and very important models, you know, which is great, but there are so many wristwatches, for example, in the neo-vintage era, let's say, you know, like in the 80s or the 90s, that still represent tremendous value versus what they can potentially use.

22:10Remi Guillemin:bring in the future should collectors spend, you know, a proper amount of time studying them. A lot of collectors do the jump from buying retail modern watches straight to vintage. They, you know, and then, you know, later go to neo-vintage. But the reality is neo-vintage wristwatches will represent, you know, for the most part, many pieces represent the peak of mechanical watchmaking. And at the same time, they still represent low production volumes. So there's a lot of value in the watch market. We mentioned pocket watches as well. You know, who isn't touched by a beautiful enamel pocket watch, you know, or who isn't interesting in owning one day a beautiful minute repeater that chimes extremely well for, you know,$10 ,000, $15 ,000 from maybe a non-reputable watchmaker, but the quality can be there.

23:10Remi Guillemin:So, you know, I think the variety of the watch market still offers a lot of choice for collectors entering the watch market. Can you be at all more specific on where you think value is? I mean, you know, where you, you know, if you had to point to, you know, some brands or eras where, you know, you think things are... Sure. I think, you know, I'm born in France, so I don't know if it's because of that, but one of the first names that comes to my mind is Breguet. You know, you still have beautiful tourbillon wristwatches by Breguet or perpetual calendars, annual calendars that are so elegant and timeless, you know, that, you know, with beautiful guilloché dials, for example, that represent great value.

23:56Remi Guillemin:pocket watches an infinite number you know we just spoke about the importance of the watchmaker versus you know the brand i remember um i think it was a year ago now we sold a matte tiso open face split second pocket watch minute repeating with brigand numerals for around fifteen thousand dollars and it was chiming like you know some of the most reputable brands, you know, that you can think of. So, yeah, that could be it. Frank Muller, the early Frank Muller wristwatches, I think represent great value. The list can be long. Another interesting brand, you know, for sports wristwatches, for example, that make quite cool chronometers.

24:41Remi Guillemin:Ebel. Yes. Not too expensive yet, yet quite cool wristwatches to own. Gérald Janta, and so much more. It's in, well, Ebel, I mean, we've certainly seen efforts in the collector community to raise the interest, raise the awareness and the place for that brand, which was a very high profile and important watchmaker in their day. But indeed, yeah, it continues. Let me ask you a question to sort of what your job is and what you do every day. Every time I'm in the airport, I see you. So, it seems. And, you know, what is involved in being the head of watches at Christie's for the regions that you cover?

25:25I mean, what is your typical day or week like?

25:28Remi Guillemin:So, you know, what's funny is I started working at Christie's. It was literally my first job in 2013 as an intern. I knew when I was at university that I wanted to work in the world of watches. and I thought auction houses were a great place to learn about watches and, you know, the full history of it, modern, past, et cetera, et cetera. What I didn't realize actually was that how global and international, you know, auction houses could be. So, you know, throughout the years, my role became, you know, quite different from an intern. I became a cataloguer, which is basically researching wristwatches, you know, writing footnotes, providing, you know, as much expertise as I could at the time with specialists, which led me to, I was able to do this in Christie's Hong Kong and then Christie's Dubai.

26:25Remi Guillemin:Then I became gradually a watch specialist, which drove me to, you know, I was based in Geneva at that time already. It basically enabled me to travel all around Europe to meet collectors, sellers, you know, work with my team, you know, to ensure that the prices were correct. The quality was great. Create an auction in Geneva or abroad. And gradually, I took a bit more of responsibilities. And now my role is to create the sales with highly talented team in Geneva, in Hong Kong, in Dubai, and in New York, to the best of our abilities and ensure that we are assisting our clients to the best possible capacity as well.

27:16Remi Guillemin:Buying, selling, this is what we do. And so that involves a lot of travel. So you were interested in watches, but you didn't necessarily know that you'd end up being a global traveler in this job. No, but that was a very positive surprise. You know, seeing how global the market was and is definitely makes our day-to-day activity thrilling. You're meeting different collectors who are interested in different things, you know, who are from different cultures as well. So it's a really interesting and pleasant way to do business. And you're also meeting clients who are passionate about an object or about a specific field.

28:06Remi Guillemin:So, you know, to be working in a field that you are passionate about with collectors who are passionate about the same thing really makes it worthy. And, you know, I've never woked up in a morning, you know, without a smile or not wanting to come, you know, to the office. So this I am very thankful for. That's a pretty good thing indeed. And so, well, I mean, you know, let's talk about what kind of watches that you've collected and, you know, I don't know how specific you want to be and what you're interested in these days in terms of your personal. I think you're wearing a Lange right now, it looks like.