The Business of Watches [40] Hublot Chief Executive Officer Julien Tornare On Partnering With Jeff Koons And Re-Connecting With The Brand's Founder

0:00Welcome to the Business of Watches, the Hodinkee podcast, where we go behind the scenes to talk to the executives of the industry that are making things tick. Today, I am in Nyon at the headquarters of Hublot, the LVMH brand. I've been around since the 1980s, and I am fortunate to be joined by one of the first watch executives that I ever met covering this business six or seven years ago. Julien Tonner is now the CEO of Hublot. Julien, welcome to the business of watches.

0:35Julien Tornare:Thank you very much, Andy. Always a pleasure to see you and to spend some time with you. Excellent. Well, it's my pleasure, and you're one of my favorite executives, so I'm super happy that you are finally on the business of watches. So, Julian, it's been about two years since you've been at Hubel. You joined from Tag Heuer, where you had a very brief stint there. And obviously, before that, you were at Zenith and then had a long career elsewhere before. So it's been about two years.

1:10had here at Hublot? And then what do you think still has to be done?

1:14Julien Tornare:Well, you know, it's been two years and it went so fast because Hublot is a very fast paced brand and there are so many things going on. And when I joined the brand that I knew already quite well, my first job was to really understand what were the strengths and the weaknesses of the brand because Hublot was founded only in 1980. So it's still a very young brand. It had a huge growth under the leadership of Mr. Croco. And then it went a little bit down end of the 90s, early 2000. Then it was relaunched by Jean-Claude Bivert that we know very well, thanks to the Big Bang and its success. And it had been two decades of incredible growth.

1:55Julien Tornare:So when you grow very fast like that, you also need sometimes to digest a bit and to think about, okay, what are the next growth that I will experience in the future and how I'm going to do it. This within a very turbulent environment, because two years ago, we're talking 2024. We're just feeling that the super dynamic years, post-COVID years of revenge buying 21, 22 and part of 23 are kind of behind and we have a correction of the market. So we have two ways to analyze it. And my job was to say, okay, with Dublo, what made Dublo so successful over the last 20 years and how can I boost these? And on the other side, what are the potential weaknesses or the things that are still missing with the brand to be even stronger in the next years?

2:39Julien Tornare:And that's what I've been working on over the last two years. I mean, from the outside perspective and when you were coming in, you know, is the biggest challenge for Hublot, is that an image issue? Is it, you know, some people, you know, have taken negative views of the brand. It's well known to be a target of some in the watch influencer space. Yeah. Did you see that as the main challenge image? Sure. You know, Hublot is a turbulent kid, you know, turbulent kids. We all, maybe we were some or we remember some at school, but they are noticed. They're loud. They make a lot of noise. And sometimes they can be irritating.

3:20Julien Tornare:And Hublot, over the last two decades, had been such a newcomer with new dynamic, pushing the limits, whether in marketing, in design, in new materials, that basically many brands were a bit, you know, feeling a bit, I wouldn't say jealous, but a bit nervous about Hublot becoming so strong in such a short time. And so we had a lot of critics, but that's fine because we are different from the other ones. There are some brands, if you say, I don't like this brand, you have to dislike 20 brands. But Hublot is so unique. And I would say one thing that I disagree with strongly is that Hublot is only a marketing brand and a new material brand.

3:58Julien Tornare:Yes, these are two amazing strengths, creativity, innovation. Think about Mr. Coco launching rubber for the first time in the 80s. Now all the brands are using rubber straps. Yes. Think about Jean-Claude Biver launching the Sapphire and the ceramic. And now so many brands are using those materials. So Hublot is always ahead of the other ones in terms of new materials. And of course, marketing wise, I don't need to mention football and all other initiatives also ahead of the other ones. But the watchmaking aspect has never been recognized to its right level. And you know myself, I worked 17 years for Vacheron, six and a half years for Zenith that are very purist in the world of watchmaking.

4:36Julien Tornare:And when I joined Hublot, I wasn't really sure what to expect. And I've been so positively surprised to see the level of knowledge, the level of watchmaking, the finishing. Yes, of course, we can always improve. And I'm here for that. But now my job is to not only elevate the watchmaking aspect, the manufacturing aspect, but also to let people know about it. Because people think Hublot is too much of a marketing and new materials. And that's not everything. Indeed. Well, let's talk about, you know, that watchmaking side of things. There have been some knocks against the brand saying that, you know, expensive materials and the forward design package with run-of-the-mill movements.

5:15You know, talk about what kind of watchmaking is going on here at Hublot in terms of your proprietary movements and those kind of things.

5:23Julien Tornare:Yeah, Hublot, you know, as I said, Hublot is only 46 years old. And 20 years ago, when it was relaunched by Jean-Claude Biver, of course, at the beginning, you don't have time to produce all your in-house movement. You don't have time to have sophisticated movement. So you basically buy movement outside and you use them like 99 % of the brands did in the past. Yes, this is the way the industry is. If not 100. Even 20 years ago, some of the biggest names in the high watchmaking industry today, they were also using external movement. So it's not a big crime. But people got used to the claims of, I have my own manufacturer, I make my own movement.

6:00Julien Tornare:And if you want to be in the high end, you have to play in that league. So that's why basically Hublot also started after a few years to introduce new calibers, like the Unico Chronograph, which is definitely one of the best and one of the most precise in the world, as well as the Mecca 10, which is an incredible mechanical handwinding 10 days power reserve. And of course, all the high complications. So, Hublot has really developed a lot of amazing skills. And now I have to keep on going and finish the job, you know, to let people know that, again, Hublot is also an incredible watchmaker. Indeed, indeed.

6:34And you're embarking on a sort of expansion here at the new manufacturer. We're in the old building, but there is a new building that is now opening up. Can you, you know, give us some details in terms of what that expansion means in terms of criteria and, you know, any kind of numbers you can?

6:52Julien Tornare:Sure. We are here in the original building called the H1. That was eight, nine years ago, I think, increased by the construction of the H2 building. And now, of course, we are just moving into the H3, which is a great increase of our capacity, capacity of production, but also to improve all the know-how, all the attention to details that we are giving to every craft when we make a watch. and obviously it's going to be an incredible tool of hospitality because that's going to be in the heart of the strategy is how to welcome our clients the best way and how to give them a unique experience in the watch industry.

7:29Julien Tornare:So this is a normal evolution. We are moving into this new building. It's a big deal for us. You will hear a lot about it in 2027 because that will be the grand opening of that facility. But it's a way to show that we want to continue to move on and despite the challenging environment, Hublot keeps on investing. thanks to our leading group, LVMH, but we continue to invest in the future. Can you talk a little bit about, you know, your actual geographical position here? It's kind of interesting because you're not in the Jura Mountains. I mean, you're beside them here. You're only maybe 20 minutes on the highway from Geneva.

8:04Yeah, here in Nyon, you know, we can see the lake here, but it's not where everybody in the watch industry is.

8:12Julien Tornare:No, and that's probably another example of Hublot being different from the other brands. I think, you know, it's originally, I think, it wanted to look for convenience. And this place is quite convenient at different levels. First of all, we didn't have for historical reasons to be in the Vallée de Joux or in the Jura mountains and neither in the center of Geneva, where traffic is very heavy at the moment. So we could locate ourselves here in Nyon, which is, as you said, 20 minutes from Geneva, 15 minutes from the airport, door to door, which is so good for people that are traveling. And also already next to the highway that goes to the watchmaking regions where we work with our suppliers, where we have a lot of watchmaking contact as well.

8:58Julien Tornare:So it's geographically, we might be the only one in the region here in Nyon, but it's probably one of the best spots. And that's the reason why our sister brand Tagoya joined us across the highway. Yes, they're right over there. And it's a good place to be, to be honest. Very good. Now, you know, let's talk about some of the new models that you've introduced in the past couple of years under your leadership. You know, we've seen the Big Bang reloaded. Yes. We've seen the classic Fusion come back, which is a watch that I quite like a lot. I mean, you know, when I think about your time at Zenith, I think you found this really interesting balance between, you know, vintage retro inspired and new models in tech.

9:43I mean, is that what we're doing here at Hublot? Are we leaning more into the heritage, into the vintage?

9:50Julien Tornare:There are a couple of things. I mean, first of all, Hublot is lucky to have two, I would say, iconic watches between the classic fusion. That's the heritage of Mr. Croco, let's say from 1980 till the early 2000. And of course, we have the Big Bang, the heritage of Jean-Claude Biver from 2005 until these days. There are some shape watches, there are different things, but basically these two are the icons. So we can play with those a lot. And in terms of Big Bang, what I was looking for is to give an evolution to the original design of Mr. Biver, keeping its DNA, its identity, but bringing some punch, some more dynamism, even more if we can.

10:32Julien Tornare:And that's what we came with, the Reloaded at the beginning of the year. It's been great, very well welcomed by the market. So it's very positive. And it's only the beginning of the evolution of Big Bang. We can do many things on this watch. It's a great playground. We can play with materials, with complications, with sizes. And that's fantastic, I mean, for the years to come. And yes, you're right. Classic Fusion was always in the shade a bit of the Big Bang that took so much space. But I think today, Classic Fusion is also the heritage. And when you are 46 years old, you don't think about retirement, right?

11:06Julien Tornare:As a person. When you are 55, 60, you start to think about it. And Nublo being 46, they never really looked at the heritage. And I believe myself now, because I'm older than the brand maybe, that I should start looking at the roots, at the origins. So as I did with the maker of the El Primero when I was at Zenit, as I did meeting Jack Hoyer when I was at Tagoya, I literally, the second month, I went to see Carlo Croco in Milan and we sit together and I asked him to talk to me about the brand and where it started, how it started and it was great, such a learning. So now I'm going to inspire myself to relaunch or to create a new development on the Classic Fusion starting in a few weeks, bringing Mr.

11:54Julien Tornare:Carlo Coco back into the brand because we're lucky to have the man behind the brand. So he will be helping us on a few things, surprises, you'll see, but it's going to be exciting. And we are working on finding back this elegance, this Italian touch that we had few people know that the brand was actually created in milan and then he moved to switzerland obviously for convenience for making watches but the idea came from italy so there is a lot of italian blood in this swiss brand and i think it's important to talk about it so expect a lot and for the first time we'll talk about heritage we'll talk about history of the brand and i think as always when you know your past very well you are even stronger to build a future indeed and And, you know, tell me in your interactions with Mr.

12:41Croco so far, I mean, yeah, what have you learned? What have you heard? It is interesting to sort of reconsider and think about Hublot as indeed a brand with Italian roots. And yeah, what can you tell us so far?

12:54Julien Tornare:Oh, he went from the name, why Hublot, you know, it's not what we think of. It's just an idea that he had and he loved boats. So he decided, but it's not a watch that was made for yachting or stuff like that. It's just his feeling for boats. For those who don't know, hublo just means sort of porthole. Exactly. The window on the boat, basically. For us, it's a window on the world. It's a hublo on the world. But the brand was, as I said, created in Italy. That information nobody really talked about and I didn't know about it. The fact that from day one, this classic Fusion, very thin, very elegant, was equipped with a rubber strap, which back in the days, believe me, it was a crime.

13:36Julien Tornare:in the holy spirit of the watch industry, never touch a strap that was back in the days, mostly in alligator or leather strap, at least. So it was something quite disruptive at the time. And Mr. Croco dared to do that. And now we know it's very common and it's everywhere. So he's been showing us also that so many celebrities were wearing Hublot back in the 80s, 90s. Today, most brands are looking for celebrities here and there. It's part of the business. But back in the days, it wasn't really an objective in itself. But the Hublot watch was the cool watch to wear when you were, you know, enjoying life and having some means.

14:15Julien Tornare:And that's an interesting aspect. I remember looking at the Andy Warhol collection. Out of his six first watches, there was an Hublot back in the days, you know. And we have quite a few examples of those kind of people. So bringing Mr. Croco back in the brand will enable me also with the new manufacturer to create exhibition, to explain exactly what's behind the brand, where we come from. And that's going to be a fantastic thing. He's got articles. He's got drawings of watches that he never launched. I mean, we have quantity of raw material that will be priceless. And I have to build the brand also for the next generations, you know.

14:52Julien Tornare:And that is a heritage that I have the responsibility now to preserve and make sure people will know about it. Excellent. Yeah, no, that is really interesting. I think we definitely look forward to that. Speaking of celebrities and ambassadors, Hubel has long had an association with football, soccer, as we would call it in the U.S. You elected not to be the sponsor of the World Cup this year that took place. I mean, was that the right decision in retrospect? You know, the World Cup is done now. Are you happy with that decision? Yes, I'm happy. It was a decision that we took taking into consideration the markets in which the World Cup was happening, taking into consideration that we had already a lot of engagement in different things, and we have to be careful to concentrate our efforts.

15:44Julien Tornare:And today we have been investing a lot with the Champions League. and this year we made the decision to not be fully present. We were present because we've been there. I was there at the final. I got to meet the FIFA people. I got to meet a lot of people there. We were sponsoring the Mexican team, the Argentinian team. We have been inviting guests in some of the Mexican matches, you know, because football is very strong in terms of culture in Mexico. So that's the reason why we decided to concentrate our efforts. It's nothing against World Cup. It's nothing against our partnership. We are still in very good relationship and we will see what we do in the future.

16:24Julien Tornare:But that stage, it was a good way to do it. Interesting. And yeah, I mean, let's talk about those specific ambassadors that you have. Mbappe, the French superstar, Patrick Mahomes, the NFL quarterback. And then, of course, the legendary Usain Bolt, Novak Djokovic as well in the tennis world. I mean, what makes a Hublot ambassador and should we expect sort of any changes on that front? You know, Hublot is not a brand for followers, literally. Hublot is a watch that you wear when you assume who you are, you know, when you want to show your personality. You don't want to board on a plane and have half of the plane wearing the same watch.

17:08Julien Tornare:That's not Hublot at all. So when we go for ambassadors, we also look for people that are different, that are daring, that are strong characters. And whether you take Djokovic, you know, he's been not always in an easy situation with the public and everything because he's got strong opinions. He knows what he wants. He's got his own behavior, his own objectives. And that's what we like, this strong personality. And I think Kylian Mbappé also, he's expressing himself often in the press. He's defending his values. He's got a strong personality. He's an incredible player, sometimes facing huge pressure from the press, from the public.

17:46Julien Tornare:If you don't perform one, two matches, you get in the spotlight for bad reasons. And he's still there. He's still fighting. And he proved it recently at the World Cup, being the best at marking goals. So he's been incredible. And that's what we go for at Hublot. I don't want to take a guy, an ambassador who's the, how can I say, who's the perfect son-in-law. You know, that's not Hublot. We are the terrible kids of the watch industry. We do things differently and we are proud of it. And that's why some people love us. And I agree that some people don't like us. That's fine. But at least when you buy a Hublot, you show that you're not a follower.

18:22Julien Tornare:You're not buying something just to look like everyone. You want to look like your own self. Indeed. And speaking of people who may not like you or may not be your biggest fans, let's briefly talk about Nico Leonard. Oh, my friend Nico, of course. And so, you know, Nico's kind of built his career around slamming your brand. Yeah, I know. You know, what, I mean, what if anything, you know, would you want to say to him or have you tried? I mean, I've written about it before in the past. You've extended invitations for him to come and visit. I mean, yeah, what can you do about something like that?

18:58And is it something that you're spending much time thinking about?

19:02Julien Tornare:No, not at all. You know, I sleep very well. And I think it was quite fun at some point because when I joined the brand, I read about his comments and things. And it's more about fairness. You know, it's more about knowing what you talk about. That's probably an issue for me because, as I said, I fully understand you like X, Y, Z brand and you don't like other ones. That's perfectly fine. But when you say things that are not true or when you systematically critique without really knowing the reality, I think it's not right. And I think there are a lot of problems in the world because of people not knowing what they talk about.

19:38Julien Tornare:And that's why I wanted to kindly to invite him to join and to visit and have a friendly lunch together and show him he blow. Then he makes up his mind. He can like it, not like it. And actually, when he made a survey, I mean, 87%, if I remember well, of his audience told him to go because it was a nice invitation. They also want to hear the truth about Hublot, you know. So I think they were interested to know what he thinks coming out of Hublot. So that was the deal. Then after it went in all directions, I don't want to comment everything, but the fact is that our door is always open. You know, we are a great brand and I'm so proud to be here.

20:12Julien Tornare:And it's also a mark of respect for people that are working for Iblo. You know, we have more than 1 ,000 employees that are working very well. Some are coming from the biggest brand of the watch industry, the most prestigious one. They work very hard for the brand. And that's why I don't really like, you know, to read this. And I think it's unfair. That's it. But again, the brand is doing well. He talks about it. So in a way, it's publicity for the brand. Bad publicity is publicity. So I'm perfectly fine with it. And again, my door will always be open because I'm a fair player and I'm here to make people discover this beautiful brand, including Nico, the day he wants to show up.

20:50Very good. Well, I'm sure Nico is a listener of the podcast, so he'll get the message, no doubt. Let's talk about Hublot's place within the LVMH watchmaking group. Obviously, there are other brands within that conglomerate. LVMH is the biggest luxury conglomerate in the world. We have Hublot, Zenith, Tag Heuer, Bulgari is part of the brand. And then there is the LVMH watches and Jean Arnault. And then they've brought back Daniel Roth lately and Gerald Genta as well. Where does Hublot fit within that group? Sort of, you know, what is the interaction with other brands? And then, you know, who are you sort of reporting to?

21:34Julien Tornare:Yeah, we have around, we have more than 70 brands in the group. and the watch division really took form a few years ago. You know, the tradition at LVMH is to leave brands a lot of independence, to really build themselves and be strong by themselves because of their, or thanks, I should say, to their desirability. And that's very healthy because you don't work always as a group, but you also develop your own brand with your own means. And that's a great thing. But watch division really get stronger and stronger over the last few years. Each brand has its own skill. We had different bosses. And now it's true, Jean-Arnaud joined and he's helping us on the watch brands with his knowledge.

22:16Julien Tornare:He's got maybe one of the biggest passion for watches I've seen. He's a true enthusiast. He's 28, I guess, I think. And he's so knowledgeable and he loves watches so much that we could, we speak together about products and design and R &D for hours. So it's great to have someone like him because also he's got a different generation than I am. So we exchange. He gives me his perspective. He gives me maybe perspectives for the future, for younger clients. And I have to say, I really enjoy my time working with him. It's been a great partnership. Absolutely, absolutely. And between the brands, to answer your question, we work together sometimes on project, but we never really step on other brands' territory.