In short
Hodinkee Podcast’s Watches and Wonders Day 2 recap from Geneva, covering new releases and booth highlights across Universal Genève, Vacheron Constantin, Rolex, IWC, Grand Seiko, Oris, Hermès, Van Cleef & Arpels, A. Lange & Söhne, plus a few guest celebrity sightings.
Guests
Malaika Crawford (Hodinkee host/journalist) and Ben Clymer (Hodinkee co-founder/editor; Universal “advisory board” member).
Key claims
Universal’s new Polar/Polerouter lineup impressed despite higher-than-expected pricing; Vacheron’s Everest Dual Time “Cardinal Points” is a standout ($41k, grade 5 titanium bracelet); IWC’s new ProSet fixes perpetual calendar day-advance setting; Grand Seiko’s new diver is thinner/wears like a Pelagos 39; Oris keeps pricing accessible with a $2,200 entry model; Lange’s 36mm annual calendar is highly legible.
Notable examples
Vacheron 150-unit LE Everest Dual Time; Rolex Day-Date Jubilee “Adventuring” dial; IWC 35mm no-date Pilot and green ceramic Ingenieur; Oris Atelier Star Edition; Hermès HO8 skeleton and leather mosaic “lion” booth; Lange 1 Lumen perpetual calendar tourbillon; Grand Seiko high-intensity titanium diver (40.8mm).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOUniversal Watches Discussion
0:15 to 4:28
Discussion on the Universal Watches product launch and its reception.
“I'm joined by Malaika Crawford and Ben Clymer.”
Vacheron Constantin's New Line
4:28 to 5:54
Exploring the new Vacheron Constantin watches and their features.
“but not just in a, oh, we used to make it this way, and then, oh, here's a piece that's four millimeters bigger, eight millimeters thicker, or whatever.”
Vacheron's 2500V Micro-Rotor Movement
5:54 to 9:30
In-depth discussion on the 2500V movement and its impact on design.
“Well, look, speaking of good product that comes at a price point that it might have been hard to predict, Vashron Constantin.”
Discussion on Vacheron and Other Brands
9:30 to 12:16
Comparison of Vacheron's approach to other luxury watch brands.
“And I think if there was one, you know, watch nerd critique of Asheron is they're using, have been using movements that were designed in kind of that 2012 slash whatever era that are just larger format.”
Discussion on Vacheron and Other Brands
13:28 to 13:51
Comparison of Vacheron's approach to other luxury watch brands.
“Since 2014, the Octo Finissimo has redefined the limits of horology, and this year, the story reaches a new peak of maturity.”
Rolex Day-Date Jubilee Discussion
13:51 to 14:01
Discussion about the new Rolex Day-Date Jubilee gold watch.
“All right, so the other one that we want to get to, we talked for a while yesterday about the Daytona.”
Exploring New Gold Alloys in Watches
14:01 to 16:48
Discussion about new gold alloys and their significance in watch design.
“I think the diamonds might be a bit much.”
The Daytona and Its Cerachrom Bezel
16:49 to 17:54
Insights into the Daytona watch, particularly its bezel and design elements.
“And around 1991 or 1992, excuse me, 91 or 92, they started to do the polished center link.”
IWC Innovations and Perpetual Calendars
17:55 to 21:28
Highlights of IWC's new perpetual calendar innovations and their usability.
“Whatever he has our producer Oh this one yeah Yeah, shout out to you.”
Grand Seiko's New Diver's Watch
21:29 to 23:32
Overview of Grand Seiko's new diver's watch and its features.
“It's one of those ones where I really wish I could have popped out a screwdriver and sized it because the clasp is way over-engineered.”
Show all 18 chapters
Oris's Accessible Watch Designs
23:33 to 25:25
Discussion on Oris's new entry-level models and their appeal.
“But it's almost like Grand Seiko made a bathyscap.”
Hermes and Artistic Watchmaking
25:26 to 27:30
Exploration of Hermes's craftsmanship and design philosophy in watches.
“Most beautiful booth in the show by far.”
A. Lange & Söhne's New Releases
27:31 to 28:00
Review of A. Lange & Söhne's annual calendar and perpetual calendar watches.
“They're like, it's about the poetry of time.”
Exploring Lange Watches
28:00 to 29:40
Discussion on Lange's unique watch designs and their appeal.
“It's just a little too technical, like a little too nerdy for me.”
Personal Encounters at the Event
29:40 to 31:22
Hosts share experiences with notable figures they met at the event.
“Yeah, I think the sizing's strong, especially, you know, last year we saw the...”
Notable Watches and Their Owners
31:22 to 32:42
Discussion on specific watches seen at the event and their notable owners.
“Well, I ran into Adam Scott, who's my buddy.”
Dream Watches from the Event
32:42 to 33:54
Hosts discuss which watches they would choose from the event if money were no object.
“Mark, if you're watching, you've got our tote bag coming.”
Secrets and Future Coverage
33:54 to 35:06
Teasing an exciting secret from Rolex and closing remarks about future episodes.
“You acted like 2 ,500V wasn't on the list.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Ben Clymer:Discover the new chapter of Octo Funissimo from ultralight titanium to the warmth of 18 karat yellow gold. The new 37 millimeter profile is the definition of Italian Sprezzatura. Thanks so much to Bulgari and back to the show. Hello and welcome to day two of Watches and Wonders, the Hodinkee podcast. I'm joined by Malaika Crawford and Ben Clymer. We're here to talk about all the stuff that we saw today. But interestingly, as we were doing a little bit of prep, Ben brought up something that we have known about for a little while. Well, it launched recently and Ben finally saw it. Ben, you want to kick it off with a little bit of Universal, then we'll get into some of the stuff we saw at the fair?
0:35Malaika N. Jones:Yeah, product is great. And I'm on the little advisory board or whatever, but I haven't seen the product really ever, in spite of being on there. Like the final end-to-end. Yeah, I mean, really, I saw prototypes-ish, but they didn't have movements, and really, kind of work in progress type stuff. So I saw the full range today in downtown Geneva. And the scuttlebutt on the internet is like, the pricing is higher than I think people anticipated. To be fair to George, like he's communicated from day one like it wasn't going to be a one-to-one competitor with Breitling like why would they do that right so the pricing is is in the teens for the compacts and the and the Polaroid quality is exceptionally high I mean way better than I anticipated there was a watch there that I really
1:14James Stacey:loved you have something yeah no I actually okay I did not think I was gonna go in and be like infused yeah the Polaroid like the black steel yeah it's actually very sleek yeah yeah bracelets yeah the gold bracelets are interesting
1:28Malaika N. Jones:I did a video with George this morning. If you look at the collection, there are four different bracelets, different formats. It's not just the same thing in different colors. And they're all great. And they're all very elegant. And the idea of how many bracelets does Rolex have? I don't know. Three, four, right? And that's Rolex. So the fact that they were able to engineer and design that many bracelets for an introductory collection says a lot. And the micro-rotor movement on the polar rotor is an in-house, it's not a Breitling-based movement. It is a new thing.
1:56Ben Clymer:And like if you hadn't seen the pieces now you've seen them and you're happy with them and people who haven't seen the pieces and that's not Anybody's fault they're brand new yeah, but people who haven't seen the pieces are unhappy with the price Do you think that's because a brand new like a new version of an old brand has to compete with the Secondary market of its existing stock.
2:13Malaika N. Jones:That's always the way is that is that what's happening?
2:15Ben Clymer:It is and people thought the poor rudder would be four thousand dollars to eight thousand dollars the idea of like Daniel Roth
2:21Malaika N. Jones:Right like Daniel Roth in the 80s when Daniel was there the tourbillons were based on Lamani ebauch's like the finishing was like meh by today's standards whatever and then LVMH buys it and we know what they are today and like it is objectively better in every fucking way in every way like the movement is theirs the finishing is five times the quality of the Lamania stuff case is better everything about it is better but these nerds are like oh the old is better
2:46James Stacey:but that's a very different price point no? yeah but it's
2:50Malaika N. Jones:the same idea it's like older is better Like the Polar Reuter that I saw today is so much better from a quality perspective than what Universal was making in the 40s and 50s and 60s. It's not even close, as it should be, right? I mean, it's half a century later. But I also think like, you know, you can't really talk about something until you see it. And when I saw this, everything changed for me. Like it really is that good.
3:12James Stacey:Actually, me too. I'm not even just saying that. Although it was a lot of watches.
3:16Malaika N. Jones:So I asked George about that too. It was a maximalist take on me watching a brand. But here's the thing. And again, there was a lot of feedback within the little advisory board. Like, ah, why do they launch it all at once and just do this, blah, blah, blah. And what George said is, like, if you launch one product, you're then in that box, right? So if you launch the, whatever, Compacts first, then you're a Daytona competitor and that's it. And he's like, I want to show what we are across the range and I want to show how ambitious this is, right? And I get it. Like, George is obviously a very smart guy and incredibly ambitious.
3:46Malaika N. Jones:And, like, what they're going to do, like, I believe in. Again, the pricing, take it or leave it, right? But the quality is there, and it is a special thing that does not exist today.
3:55Ben Clymer:Yeah, and also the pricing thing, and I know that this is a generic answer, the pricing thing is what it's going to be. They'll either find a market at the price point, and they'll sell their watches, or they won't, and the price point will change. But the second outcome is not something that happens very often in the watch industry, if at all. But yeah, I'm glad to see, obviously, a huge amount of work went into the launch and many years of preparation. and I think the thing that I liked was there's a very specific, almost scholarly-like understanding and reverence for UG in the past. What made the brand great seems to be part of the way that they're telling the story now, but not just in a, oh, we used to make it this way, and then, oh, here's a piece that's four millimeters bigger, eight millimeters thicker, or whatever.
4:39Ben Clymer:I'm joking around, of course, but a lot of brands will tell you the story of their great model that people love and then offer you something that makes no sense?
4:47Malaika N. Jones:Yeah, look, they... I don't want to say the product they nailed, and I think the storytelling they will continue to nail. The fact that, like, the Cabriolet is there, which is really... Like, I'm a universal guy. That's a very obscure reference, right? And the Disco Vellante, which is a large... That's cool.
5:02Ben Clymer:Which is a cool, really cool watch.
5:03Malaika N. Jones:But that's like an R.O. Montanari, John Goldberger type thing. Yeah, I'm not pulling that off.
5:07Ben Clymer:Well, I could.
5:08Malaika N. Jones:I think you could. I genuinely do. But, like, the fact that they're referencing, like, genuinely obscure references on day one, but not just remaking them, you know?
5:16James Stacey:But that's quite trendy, isn't it? I feel like a lot of what they're doing is a little bit trendy.
5:22Malaika N. Jones:The only thing that I would say would be trendy is actually my favorite watch of the collection is in fact a trend, which would be the rose gold embracelet Tiger's Eye. It's a killer. I mean, the price is really high. There's a lot of presence for a watch, though. I mean, so the fairy who was with us earlier was there as well. Like, we both independently chose that watch as like a standout. Price is very high. It's a lot of gold. and four-piece Tiger's Eye dial. That's pretty. It's very pretty, yeah. But I was, you know, product, you know, direction speaking about the product, like, go check it out.
5:52Malaika N. Jones:They'll be in stores in September. I think people will be shocked at how good it is.
5:55Ben Clymer:Well, look, speaking of good product that comes at a price point that it might have been hard to predict, Vashron Constantin. Sure. If you know me and have followed the stuff that I've written about for Hadinki for years, you'll know that they've essentially made a standard catalog version of one of my all-time favorite modern watches. which was the Everest dual time from 2021, which was based on a watch that a guy named Corey Richards used on an Everest bid in 2019. Now it's a standard watch delineated to the four cardinal points, north, south, east, west. So there's a green, a blue, a white, and a brown.
6:27Ben Clymer:Correct. I saw all four today. If I was spending$40 ,000 on a watch, I would not have any competition. I was delighted by this watch. Great watch. How much was it? $41 ,000. And you basically get three watches in one, like joking but not. Well, and the LE, which was 150 units, didn't have a bracelet. This is a grade 5 titanium bracelet, finished to Vacheron standards. So, yeah, it's$10 ,000 more than the LE from 21. Obviously, a lot of people listening will know what's happened to watch prices since 21. I don't think it's that far out of line. This is an immense watch. I don't think they'll be that easy to get.
7:05Ben Clymer:I'm not going to be in line for one, but I will forever be a fan. And any time now when I get asked by a random magazine or myself to go do an editor's picks for, like, a Dreamwatch right now, it'll be top of the list for a while. Anything on this one?
7:18James Stacey:I haven't seen it yet.
7:20Ben Clymer:No? You didn't read my story.
7:21James Stacey:I didn't read your story. I'm sorry. There's 52 stories or whatever it is to get through.
7:25Malaika N. Jones:You had to read an entire magazine.
7:28Ben Clymer:Stay tuned for that. It's a good one. I'm only teasing, Malika. You didn't need to read my story. But Ben's also seen the piece. It's incredible.
7:35Malaika N. Jones:I mean, they're gone, right? I mean, it's not a limited edition. but I just know they're gone. It's so sporty. It fits so well. It fits so well. Titanium. I was kind of half-joking that it's three watches in one, but if you're in that price range slash category of integrated sports watch bracelets, Royal Oak, Nautilus, whatever, if you want to buy a Royal Oak and you want it on a strap, you have to buy a whole new watch. And I know people that do that. Nautilus as well. There's two different 50th anniversary Nautilus. It's the same watch. One's on a strap. One's on a bracelet. Here you have the cloth strap or cloth leather, the rubber and the bracelet and incredibly interchangeable like remarkably so it's awesome yeah it's just an awesome watch and I think they will crush with it and
8:15Ben Clymer:they should great functionality great movement well finished I like the color way is it a lot of money yeah I do I think that you're getting an exceptionally cool watch for your money also yeah so I don't have a lot of complaints they also launched a very very cool take on the overseas in a smaller format in platinum killer what do you think that's a me watch yeah the minute I heard about
8:36Malaika N. Jones:about it. The 2500V. 2500V. So it brings back a watch that came out with I think in 2019 or so. I don't know. We've written about it on the site. But it used in the back in the day it was a white gold watch slate grade dial with the jumbo movement. So JLC 920 slash whatever AP 1121 or what have you. And it was an incredibly cool watch. And I'll be honest nobody bought it because it was it was a time when like it was pre sports watch craze. It was like 60 ,000 bucks or whatever retail when like the average overseas was like 18 or something like that and you know only people like me frankly i didn't buy it to be clear i should have uh really even paid attention to it and we brought one into the office our old friend jack forster wrote like a fairly in-depth story about it like it was it's a really enthusiast based watch and it's been gone for a long time and then they brought it back in a smaller format by a few millimeters with an in-house movement like a brand new micro rotor movement with a salmon dial again change the strap from rubber leather or bracelet platinum it's so good and that watch like you know i don't own any platinum bracelet watches like that it's amazing on platinum it's the best on rubber it is just so cool on rubber it's so slim what size is it 39 point something 39 and change so slim and what's neat and i don't think this has really gotten a lot of play is this movement is going to be a foundation for what comes next which means they'll be able to make 39 millimeter watches as complicated watches, perpetuals, et cetera, for a long time.
10:01Malaika N. Jones:And I think if there was one, you know, watch nerd critique of Asheron is they're using, have been using movements that were designed in kind of that 2012 slash whatever era that are just larger format. Like they're just designed for 42, 41, whatever. And like that just doesn't work with today. And so with this one, they'll be able to go smaller. 255 piece limited edition, I think. It's interesting because it's like a direct competitor with this 50th anniversary of Titan Mnobiles. Also micro rotor. but like polar opposites, right? Like Patek is using literally a movement from 1977, God bless, and Vacheron's using like a cutting edge micro-rotor movement.
10:37Malaika N. Jones:So it depends what you want. Both limited editions, but great watch.
10:40Ben Clymer:Yeah, I mean, for a brand that sometimes will launch 12 models, like Vacheron had to show what can sometimes bring a lot of models to bear to come with just these two kind of polar opposites of the Vacheron spectrum, the Cardinal Points and the 2500V, I thought both showed really well.
10:57Malaika N. Jones:Yeah, the other thing I should say is they redesigned the 1921. Oh, true. Yeah, yeah.
11:00Ben Clymer:We will see that in New York.
11:02Malaika N. Jones:Yeah. And that, I mean, that's long been a favorite. I'm surprised I've never owned one, but they just changed the dial on it. But that's a favorite for sure. For sure. And again, that's kind of three very different kind of aspects of that brand. Dude, Vacheron's crushing.
Read the full transcript
11:13James Stacey:Yeah, you guys are both like getting on about how they're crushing.
11:16Malaika N. Jones:I mean, this is a total aside, but I hosted an event for Vacheron last week in Miami. That's probably, you know, somebody important texting somebody right now. Is that your phone?
11:24James Stacey:Probably.
11:27Malaika N. Jones:And the enthusiasm behind Vacheron right now from series collectors is the strongest it's ever been. And I've been doing this 18 years. I really believe in them. And I think they're doing stuff in a way that's really different than Patek or AP or Langa or whoever. I've got a lot of faith in the future of Vacheron.
11:42Ben Clymer:Yeah, I think it's been great for them. Obviously, the 222, I think, brought a lot of heat and attention from people who maybe weren't on their website that often. Changed everything. And we had the yellow gold solid 222 in the office a little while ago. Do you know what?
11:55James Stacey:25 people have asked me directly oh congrats or like is that yours oh you're getting you're
12:02Ben Clymer:getting heat in the comments on wrist check wednesday because you had this one yeah i mean
12:06James Stacey:listen it was for the bit but we really like did a sort of quite good job at just yeah i mean i that
12:13Ben Clymer:one again i've said this before i'm broke a record with the integrated bracelet sport watches them being sized is the experience closing it and it fits it's done and that's why with the vacherons You can swap in a rubber or the textile strap and run it. But that 222 and yellow gold fit me. And I just immediately was a different dude.
12:31James Stacey:You were a different dude.
12:32Malaika N. Jones:Remember that time you had that gold Royal Oak in L.A.?
12:34Ben Clymer:Oh, yeah. And the Ferrari? Well, let's be clear, though. That time in L.A., I had a B-series Royal Oak. Gold. Yellow gold with the gray dial that you said I could just kind of wear around. And at the time, I had a McLaren 720. Yeah. And the day they took the McLaren 720 away, it was a press loan, to be clear. They dropped off the only Ferrari Zadino T in the States of the time. A California T. It's Cali T. And, yeah, it was a vibe. You were a real vibe that day. It was a problem. And then you ate all those hamburgers. I ate a lot of hamburgers. I guess you had to be there. You probably didn't want to be.
13:11Ben Clymer:I don't think Solid Gold Watch James is a better James. I'm better at a lower wavelength. It's a funner James. Yeah, maybe. Maybe, yeah. This special episode of the Hodinkee Podcast from Watches and Wonders 2026 is brought to you by Bulgary and the Octo Finissimo. Since 2014, the Octo Finissimo has redefined the limits of horology, and this year, the story reaches a new peak of maturity. Introducing the Octo Finissimo 37, a reimagined blank canvas of architectural precision that brings a new, universal proportion to an icon. Discover the new chapter of Octo Finissimo at Bulgary.com. All right, so the other one that we want to get to, we talked for a while yesterday about the Daytona.
13:55Ben Clymer:Yeah. But there's other Rolex to get to. We did get to see the new Day-Date Jubilee gold.
14:00James Stacey:Oh, yeah. With the adventuring dial.
14:02Ben Clymer:Take us away.
14:04James Stacey:Okay, new. I think the diamonds might be a bit much. No, no, no, no. That's rude.
14:08Ben Clymer:That's rude.
14:08James Stacey:You just told me that you went to, like, three different Ammons. So I'm like, sorry.
14:13Ben Clymer:Actually, your real identity is coming out.
14:16James Stacey:Yeah.
14:16Malaika N. Jones:I frequented an Ammon.
14:19James Stacey:No, the Jubilee Gold, new alloy, very cool. Obviously we've seen other brands doing sort of similar mix.
14:25Malaika N. Jones:Sand gold, honey gold.
14:27James Stacey:Sand gold, honey gold. Sedna gold. Yeah, yeah. Sedna gold, right. The original, yeah. The OG. I thought it was quite - Magic gold.
14:35Malaika N. Jones:Okay.
14:35James Stacey:Magic gold. Magic gold.
14:37Ben Clymer:I feel there's a story here somewhere, or at least a list. Let's rank them all.
14:41James Stacey:Have we not done that story? Let's not rank them. Yeah, let's not. I thought it was quite nice. It was bigger. In my head, it was 36. In my head, every day date was 36.
14:53Ben Clymer:Me too. They always launch the new stuff in the 40s.
14:56James Stacey:Right, right, right.
14:57Ben Clymer:The thing that I would take away, the gold is, I think, very much what you expect from these other kind of pale yellow gold alloys. It's great if you're in that market. The light green adventuring dial, I think people have been doing adventuring wrong going with the night sky style. The light green is nuts.
15:13James Stacey:They do.
15:14Ben Clymer:They look awesome in steel.
15:15James Stacey:They just do good stone, like they just know what's. Tons of texture, good color. But the stone thing, they're just the masters of that stone dial situation. And I liked the diamond indices. Oh, I was just teasing. What else did we see there? I mean, you already talked about a lot of the stuff. We talked a lot about the Daytona.
15:35Malaika N. Jones:Yeah, I mean, I saw it. Yeah, there you go. It's great. I mean, it's the thing that you.
15:39Ben Clymer:The Daytona guy loves the newsflash of Daytona.
15:42Malaika N. Jones:Newsflash, right?
15:42James Stacey:When we saw that Daytona, I was like, well, I guess this is Ben's watch.
15:47Malaika N. Jones:I saw it and I just went, well, I don't have to write the story.
15:51Ben Clymer:No, we literally said that to each other. We'll make him do that.
15:54Malaika N. Jones:The thing that you said very correctly and is completely true, I'll say one more time, is that the bezel, which is Cerachrom, really reads metallic. And I was like, how could it be metallic? How could it feel? Because Cerachrom bezels do not feel that way. They don't really last. Yeah, and that is really neat. The dial is super rich. I mean, it's just it's a it's a me watch.
16:13James Stacey:I mean, I we did see quite a few oyster perpetuals for sure
16:19Ben Clymer:And you have a quite a fondness for the yellow gold green
16:22James Stacey:Um, I think the satin finish gold is so good
16:27Ben Clymer:The full brush.
16:29James Stacey:Yeah, it's so good
16:30Malaika N. Jones:So I have a story in the back of my mind that's already written if that makes any sense Like yeah, I know that yeah, yeah The five things that would have made this Daytona better and that would be one of them. Oh, yeah Because Rolex is... Just to fully brush out the bracelet? Yeah. So as you may or may not know, there was a period... So like the Zenith Daytona that I have has a fully brushed bracelet. And around 1991 or 1992, excuse me, 91 or 92, they started to do the polished center link. And that's been that way ever since. And imagine they had like, you know, if they put that much thought in it, imagine they had just done like a fully brushed bracelet on that.
17:03Malaika N. Jones:That would have been... I love a white dial with a fully brushed bracelet. That's not to love. That's not to love.
17:07James Stacey:Yeah, it's just nice. I feel like now is the time to wear a sort of less flashy look.
17:13Ben Clymer:Sure.
17:14James Stacey:I don't know. It feels appropriate. I feel like it's come at an appropriate time. And then we had the Rolesor as well for the 100 years, which Tantan seems to absolutely love.
17:25Ben Clymer:And so when we originally covered that, probably an error in at least the video that I did, was we said that it was available as the 41, the 100th anniversary. Turns out that was what they were offering in their press package. The broader scope also includes a 36 millimeter version, which I think again, I don't know why An OP feels like it should be 36 day dates feel like they should be 36 Obviously they come in so many other sizes, but do you remember the 39 OP?
17:49James Stacey:I was always a fan of that doesn't I think we have one in the room
17:53Malaika N. Jones:The white dial yeah, Dave's locked in Whatever he has our producer
17:59Ben Clymer:Oh this one yeah
18:01Malaika N. Jones:Yeah, shout out to you. I think 39 is a cool size too, but yeah.
18:03James Stacey:That's easy, yeah.
18:04Ben Clymer:I don't have a problem. It's just for whatever reason I see the home of those watches being 36.
18:09James Stacey:I know, in your head, OP is 36. 36. It's 36.
18:12Ben Clymer:So the next one that we went to was IWC. Yeah. And it was a lot. A lot of line extension, which is good. But obviously a big focus on Engeleur. You have a QP, a new version of the QP in titanium, medium, a tourbillon in solid gold, an extension of the 35 millimeters. But then we get into something that I think matters a lot probably to big pilot people, to QP people, and that's the ProSet, which is a hugely, a big evolution of their QP movement that allows you to much more easily set and maintain the calendar function on these watches. And it's in a much more approachable size while still kind of maintaining.
18:53Ben Clymer:let's be clear what's one of the cooler formats in watches but not everybody has the risk for a 46 millimeter right qp can we talk about the iwc perpetual for a minute just because i think like
19:03Malaika N. Jones:some people might not understand it so like up until this year before the pro set if you went a day in advance on perpetual calendar you had to either send the watch back to a watchmaker or wait a year to get to that date right i mean it was crazy and as somebody who has set many a perpetual calendar i do it every like every time like i just miss you know i'm paying i'm you know watching my it or something.
19:22Ben Clymer:It's like a little tiny pusher that has no feedback.
19:24Malaika N. Jones:It's so easy to screw that up. You just go back around. It's not that big of a deal. So that was, I don't want to say a fatal flaw because that would be doing it dirty, so to speak, but that was a problem with that watch, for sure. And they have fixed it, and it can go backwards now. And really puts it in line in many ways with the AP. It's different. But remember how big of a deal AP made about their new perpetual. Again, it's not the same thing, but it solves the same problem.
19:47Ben Clymer:For sure. Yeah, I think really strong product from them all around. And then as kind of the special halo piece, we had the fully luminous case-style strap, Cerro Lume option, which is wild. That's in your big format, quite a large watch, but it's fun. We got a fun video of kind of the Lume kicking off on that.
20:05Malaika N. Jones:Yeah, I mean, there were two watches at IWC that I would like buy. I'm not saying I will, but I would, if that makes any sense. And one was the 35 millimeter, no date, Pilot's watch. Yep. 35 millimeter, no date. Like, how much fun would that be to mess with, so to speak? You know, like, just redesign. Sure. You know, if you catch my drift. And then the green ceramic Angenor. Like, fully green. You dig that? I do. I mean, I like green. And, like, you know, again, ceramic. We talked about it yesterday. But, like. Gold markings, gold screws. It's a cool watch. And, like, you know, you see that watch across the room.
20:37Malaika N. Jones:Half the people are thinking it's an AP. And I don't know if that's good or bad. But, like, it is a full ceramic watch. And it wore really well. It's the right size. Like, that's a cool watch for sure. For sure.
20:47Ben Clymer:I don't disagree. And then lastly, they had like a working fully production version of the Vast collaboration, which is a very cool watch. If you ignored it because maybe you felt it wasn't your thing, it basically takes the ability to change the time, the hours, that sort of thing, and puts it into the bezel. So you're operating sort of like a switch or clutch on the side of the watch to go between the two. And then you can turn the bezel and change the time, I guess, conceivable to be done with gloves or without the need of, you know, messing with a tiny crown. And a very cool thing. Just an interesting sort of aesthetic assignment and a cool connection to this sort of space outfit.
21:22Malaika N. Jones:I think we see, I mean, you know, I've got a lot of love for that brand. I've had a bunch over the years. Obviously, we work with them on ours. Like, at any given moment, like, that thing could just skyrocket. You know what I mean? And it's doing well, to be very clear. but like there's a lot of stuff there that appeals to the nerds in many ways but they also do stuff that is just fun and cool um i think there's a there's a bright future there yeah and i think on
21:43Ben Clymer:the same vein fun and cool and applying or appealing to the nerds we have grand seiko you guys didn't make it to grand seiko i can't sit down and talk about the watches i saw today and not talk about the new grand seiko divers people love that watch dude it's like if you're if especially if you're a seiko nerd who climbed the ladder up to marine masters with eight l series movements you're almost at a grand seiko and then the next watch which is beautiful it's just too big it's 44 or bigger now we have 40.8 millimeters it's nice and thin it wears very similarly in my mind to my pelagos i actually think it wears thinner because the case kind of pulls into the bezel and it's a pelagos 39 which is also titanium this is their high intensity titanium so it weighs very little it's very scratch resistant the dials are very grand seiko so it doesn't read the code of a dive watch necessarily, but I was delighted by it.
22:31Ben Clymer:It's one of those ones where I really wish I could have popped out a screwdriver and sized it because the clasp is way over-engineered. It's Grand Seiko stuff. They're doing neat stuff. It's in the$12 ,000 range, so it's a proper Grand Seiko price. Was it Darling? I wouldn't say it was Darling. Darling's a high bar. Yeah, I get that. It's an inside joke. You get a couple here.
22:52James Stacey:Is this because... Yeah, I was there. Were you there? I was there. I will say I heard him say it maybe like 50 seconds. Yeah, it comes around.
22:58Ben Clymer:I probably said about the 222 solid gold. That was a darling one. But that's the sort of watch that I could see somebody like myself or a Grand Seiko nerd going like, finally. Right? Like, there it is.
23:11Malaika N. Jones:That hit the right note for sure.
23:12Ben Clymer:So kudos to them. They've got a handful of really beautiful, you know, very fine of the VFA stuff. And that movement is also in the Grand Seiko Diver. So we'll have more on that. I shot all the photos. So stay tuned in the next couple of days for a closer look at that. Really impressed by that one. The weird thing is that I couldn't shake it, and it's wild because you guys didn't get to see it, so it doesn't communicate that well. But it's almost like Grand Seiko made a bathyscap. It has certain codes. It has this very tonal darkness to it, matted, sort of muted presence. But then, like the bathyscap, you have applied markers and some embellishments on the bezel and that sort of thing.
23:53Ben Clymer:And it struck that similar tone. And yeah, I think at least in that light, and certainly within the way that Grand Seiko's been operating the last little while, it made sense to me.
24:02Malaika N. Jones:Yeah, that's a winner for sure.
24:04Ben Clymer:Good product. After that, we went to Auris. I love Auris. Yeah, for sure. I just, you know, we saw the comments from yesterday's episode. I know that we talked about some very expensive watches and said that they weren't that expensive or at least worth it or we understood the price, etc. Oris on the other hand we sat down and they said we were looking to expand on what we already knew was working But really focusing on keeping an accessible price point. So they're announcing essentially a new Entry-level model at about 2200 bucks. That's an extension a downward extension if you will of the atelier line But the one that I really enjoyed was the star edition Which is like a one-to-one recreation of a watch that Oris has made you know well back in their history at a time when they had to conform to a standard from the Swiss government.
24:51Ben Clymer:And it's like you pulled a perfect one out of a box from your grandfather's sock drawer or something. It's small. The pricing felt very fair. You wear it on a strap. It's worse. They make good product that people really like to buy. And I think they still remain in that sort of happy zone where a lot of brands have moved upmarket in the last decade. And they've just kind of stuck where if you want to spend more money, you can go in-house with their movements, get bigger power reserves complications. But if you don't, they'll still sell you something with a really solid, reliable Sellita and you just get a nice little watch to wear.
25:23James Stacey:Should we talk about The Lion?
25:25Ben Clymer:Oh, The Lion of Hermes. Most beautiful booth in the show by far.
25:29Malaika N. Jones:It's Hermes. It's the best.
25:31Ben Clymer:Best art-directed booth.
25:32Malaika N. Jones:No problem. It's Hermes.
25:33James Stacey:I mean, I don't know. They had fewer novelties than they've brought out in the past, but I think they're really focusing on the HO8 skeleton, which is kind of neat. I mean it's...
25:45Malaika N. Jones:Tan Tan loves that one.
25:46James Stacey:Tan Tan, he loves Hermes. I don't know, everything they do is just sort of well executed, isn't it?
25:52Ben Clymer:And it's all done exactly the way they would do something and not the way anybody else would.
25:56James Stacey:They don't care about what other people are doing.
25:58Ben Clymer:They really don't.
25:59James Stacey:They really do not. They do what they do and that marquetry on that crazy lion...
26:05Malaika N. Jones:Leather marquetry.
26:06James Stacey:Leather marquetry, sorry, leather mosaic marquetry was pretty impressive. and you got some kicks out of that for sure.
26:14Ben Clymer:Yeah, I like that kind of stuff. Made you smile? Oh, absolutely. But like, you know, it's like you and I have this kind of running conversation for the last several years about Van Cleef.
26:22James Stacey:Yeah.
26:23Ben Clymer:And I'm not going to be a Van Cleef buyer, but anything they make delights me.
26:27James Stacey:No, you delight. It delights you.
26:29Ben Clymer:They're so interesting and beautiful and everything feels like it should be in a museum and then you see somebody where they go, oh, it's a pendant, but this little line that's on the pendant is made from 500 some odd pieces of leather that are carefully placed and you go by a human being. And you go, how many are you making of those? They're like, maybe two. And you're like, okay, okay, cool. Yeah, all right.
26:49James Stacey:I just think everything they do is pretty neat. And even if it's like not always my taste, I respect the taste. Yeah, that's our man.
26:57Ben Clymer:I'm a sports watch knucklehead. I always will be. It doesn't mean I can't appreciate a lion made out of leather in a watch. Inside of a watch. That sounds so insane.
27:06James Stacey:Like zoom out and listen to that.
27:08Malaika N. Jones:The artistry is exciting.
27:09Ben Clymer:Yeah, yeah. It is, absolutely. And that's why, like, the oire floral will always be something I find fascinating. You love that watch.
27:16James Stacey:It's pretty amazing. Who thought of that?
27:17Ben Clymer:And then who figured out how to make it? You tell time with flowers opening and closing in a little garden on your wrist. It's cool.
27:22James Stacey:They also do really have some serious watchmaking going on at VCA. But they, like, don't really communicate that part, which is pretty chic.
27:30Ben Clymer:Sometimes they just talk about how the watch has two people that kiss on a bridge. Yeah, yeah.
27:34James Stacey:They're like, it's about the poetry of time. You're like, okay.
27:38Ben Clymer:At something of a polar, well not even polar opposite, just a different take on a similar idea, we land at Lange, which we just left. And we have a great new take in a great size for an annual calendar, which I think will be a really solid product for them. A complication that people really like. Annual calendars being somewhat more approachable than perpetual calendars, both for price reasons and for reasons that IWC has sorted this year. but then we kind of go the full the full the full Monty when it comes to uh to to Lange with uh the Lange one lumen perpetual perpetual calendar turbio yeah self-winding Lange two watches two
28:17Malaika N. Jones:you know two different watches uh which I kind of respect it's like we're just not gonna play the game you know like one big one small literally and uh and we'll do the rest later um the I'm I I respect the Lumen. I don't own any Lumens. It's not my thing.
28:31James Stacey:You're not a Lumen guy. No.
28:33Malaika N. Jones:It's just a little too technical, like a little too nerdy for me. I love long guys, you know. But it's just one step too far. Having said that, though, they're the most in demand collectible watches. The new one, that reference, the non-Lumen version of it, has long been the watch. I may have said this already. I imagine if I ever really made it, I'm talking like really made it, I would wear it. Because it's a self-winding perpetual calendar tourbillon that nobody like it looks like a long one it's just a larger long one like nobody would ever spot it i mean it is the most kind of clandestine under the radar mega watch on earth i know one or two people that own them i'm sorry it's a sleeper it's a sleeper yeah uh and i just think it's such a chic watch like it is just such an elegant thing that is done to a level of perfection that like nobody really gets and then to make it looming again not my thing but cool but the annual calendar we were just with some some guys downstairs that are kind of in the watch world peripherally, but like consumers of them, and they were like, oh my God, I need this.
29:26Malaika N. Jones:Like, perfect size, 36 millimeter.
29:28James Stacey:They liked the size.
29:29Malaika N. Jones:Loved it.
29:30James Stacey:Okay.
29:30Malaika N. Jones:36 millimeter self-winding, which is, you know, makes sense for a calendar watch. You know, it is probably the most legible watch, legible calendar watch I've ever seen. Killer.
29:41Ben Clymer:Yeah, I think the sizing's strong, especially, you know, last year we saw the... 34. 34 millimeter. That they, like, can't keep in stock. Which, like, people really attach to. And it is a brand that occasionally makes a fairly large watch. usually due to something like complexity. I think the one thing that's fascinating about the Longa 1 with the several extra words that we saw, the Lumen, is that it really exemplifies something that Longa does that I think a lot of brands, other brands fail at, which is they can take the core, and like a Longa 1 in my opinion is essentially perfect. One of my favorite dress watches, has aged beautifully, still remains modern and classic at the same time, et cetera.
30:16Ben Clymer:I like all the different versions. And they can add to it without spoiling that balance. And it's one thing to say, like, oh, we added another time zone or a different calendar or maybe even a perpetual calendar. With the peripheral, you can really make use of that dial. But then to also have the tourbillon and then do a smoke dial with all this luminous element. And still, from a distance, you go, like, that's along a one. And in the right light, you would miss most of the other cues. Obviously, the date display is on the other side because it's automatic, which makes it look a little bit different.
30:48Ben Clymer:You could pick up on that if you were kind of a nerd and that sort of thing. But I think it's impressive the way that they can take a core and sort of expand it to be more and more special, more and more interesting, more and more complicated. Agreed.
31:01Malaika N. Jones:Who is the funnest person you ran into today?
31:04James Stacey:Oh, that's like no competition. For sure. Absolute legend. Like packing heat as always and just like owning the Lange booth.
31:16Malaika N. Jones:As always. Yeah.
31:17James Stacey:Queen of like just queen of her kingdom.
31:20Malaika N. Jones:Queen of not only that kingdom, but several others. Several other kingdoms. The domain, you know, exists outside.
31:24James Stacey:Basically, queen of the Pilexpo. Yeah. In fact.
31:27Malaika N. Jones:Yeah, she's a legend. How about you? Well, I ran into Adam Scott, who's my buddy. And I just, I love that guy. That guy just makes me happy because he's so nice. He loves great watches. He meets Australia and he plays golf. So that was... Clearly, he has a soundtrack. He has a soundtrack, yeah. And I mostly hang out with him in New York City or on a golf course. So to see him, like to see him in my domain, you know what I mean, was kind of cool. and also just to be clear
31:50Ben Clymer:just in case anyone's confused Adam Scott the golfer not the actor not the actor both really rad guys that apparently are into watches but this was this was the yeah this was the golf the form what about you
32:02Malaika N. Jones:well actually we saw Tom Christensen
32:03James Stacey:oh that was cool
32:04Ben Clymer:Tom Christensen's probably yeah I mean I don't know that he's the funniest guy I saw but he's cool he's up there he's a cool dude
32:10Malaika N. Jones:yeah right I mean Le Mans
32:11Ben Clymer:Mr.
32:12Malaika N. Jones:Le Mans Tom Christensen
32:13Ben Clymer:what was he wearing
32:14Malaika N. Jones:he was wearing I didn't ask he was wearing a Le Mans
32:17Ben Clymer:Le Mans oh he was wearing his Le Mans. Yeah. I mean, like that's like,
32:20Malaika N. Jones:you know, I guess I could have assumed I didn't have to ask. Yeah, he was wearing it and it looked awesome. Like you can't knock that at all. Like because every time somebody sees me or some like dork with a Le Mans, it's like he doesn't deserve that.
32:29Ben Clymer:You know, like this guy really deserves that watch. Yeah, we'll put it in the show notes or something. You can check out who that is if for some reason you don't follow motorsport to any extent. But it's a bit of a legend to see him just kind of like walk past you as you're having a bowl of soup. Carrot soup, right? It's delicious.
32:48Ben Clymer:Yeah, probably the Rolex one. I gave mine up Mark. Mark, if you're watching, you've got our tote bag coming.
32:53James Stacey:He sacrificed the tote bag for you.
32:57Malaika N. Jones:One more before we end, just because I got you guys. Money be damned. Like, you got as much money as you want. Waiting list be damned. All the watches you've seen this week, what would you take? If you were like, that's the watch.
33:07James Stacey:Cartier Mist, it's called.
33:09Malaika N. Jones:In white gold or yellow?
33:11James Stacey:Yellow, gold, diamond with black lacquer.
33:14Malaika N. Jones:161 ,000, I think.
33:15James Stacey:I could do better, though, couldn't I? But that's hot there.
33:19Ben Clymer:I'd go for that Vacheron. You go for that. For the cargo points. Yeah. Because I know I would wear it constantly. It would make almost everything else I like. Yeah. And have irrelevant. Yeah.
33:27James Stacey:What are you going for?
33:28Ben Clymer:It's really hard. There's a lot. All right. Come on.
33:30James Stacey:Come on. Let us know. Tell us.
33:31Malaika N. Jones:What do you think it is? Nautilus. 50 is Nautilus. The little one? Yeah. That's probably up there. What do you think? I'm not saying that's it, but that's up there. It's got to be on the list. There are four that I genuinely want. You've been here for two days. I'm not thinking I'm buying anything.
33:43Ben Clymer:Or two days, four new dream watches. I like it. That's a pretty good show. I really like watches, right? All right, Nautilus is one of them. 2 ,500V is another. Yeah, okay, so 2 ,500V platinum salmon. So is it actually five?
33:56Malaika N. Jones:No, I don't know that. You acted like 2 ,500V wasn't on the list. So it's the 3 ,800. It's the little, little tiny platinum Nautilus for sure. Very cute. The platinum, whatchamacallit, overshades. Fashions, yeah. Daytona, right? Yep. And then Red Chap. Right. I mean, like, you know, I mean, these are not surprising picks in any way. No, like, they're just like, these are all.
34:15James Stacey:I thought you were going to throw us some. No, I was really doing that for you.
34:19Malaika N. Jones:I wanted your answers. My answers are boring. Okay. But like, just think about how good those are.
34:22James Stacey:I was going to say that, like, secret thing that we saw. Which one? At the Rolex.
34:30Malaika N. Jones:We saw a secret thing at Rolex that we can't talk about. That is literally the craziest thing I've ever seen.
34:35James Stacey:It's so good. And that's what I thought you were going to say. There's one.
34:40Malaika N. Jones:It costs more than like a home in like anywhere or Greenwich. Yeah. Yeah. But there's one.
34:46James Stacey:We could split maybe.
34:49Malaika N. Jones:Timeshare? Yeah. I mean like financially I don't know that we could. I'm not good for that.
34:55Ben Clymer:I'm saying hypothetically.
34:56James Stacey:Yeah. Yeah.
34:58Ben Clymer:Look on that bombshell we've got ourselves an episode. We'll be back tomorrow with another one. And by all means if there's something you want to see covered, let us know in the comments and thanks for watching.
From the publisher
To cap off an exciting day 2 at Watches and Wonders, Ben, Malaika, and James chat about the latest releases from Vacheron Constantin, IWC, Grand Seiko, Oris, Lange, and a few additional models from Rolex. From old-school throwbacks to the dual timers and divers we’ve been begging for, it’s a broad mix of great watches announced this week in Geneva.
Thanks to Bugari for their support of this episode of Hodinkee Podcast. For more, visit Bulgari.com
