Aimee Smale on building Odd Muse into a $30M brand, why her wedding can wait, and the reality of out-earning your partner

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30:22Where did the name Odd Muse come from? Oh, I need to think of a chic way of saying this, but I'll tell you. And then I really need to work on this. But I was obsessed with the idea of the word Muse, like something that was super inspiring, And I think I just really had a problem with the industry, like really pushing fast fashion onto these young women. And honestly, like spending, like you would watch brands like Boohoo spend way more money on getting someone in Love Island in these crap clothes than they would on the actual clothes. And like people were just buying into it. And I essentially was like, okay, what I'm doing is odd, odd muse.

31:03I don't think you need to change that. Okay. I actually I'm doing something odd. I think that for me, I think being different and being odd is actually such a superpower, especially in this world we live in now where even facial features are starting to look the same. But I don't know about you, like when I see a woman with very distinctive features that doesn't have Instagram face, I am drawn to them. I am like there is something so uniquely different about it. So I don't know because I you know this, but I was one of the first buyers of our views. When you showed me those pictures, I was like, I cannot believe this because this is like the podcast that I've been manifesting this year.

31:40And then you rocked up that picture. I was like, no, this is not real. This is not happening right now. And it's like, you're in a car park with the blazer on. And that was the first VC dinner that I was hosting where I was actually trying to get LPs, so very rich people, into a fund that I was working at at the time. And I remember being like, this is what is going to speak to who I am. I'm a creator meets being now at a VC fund. And I want to be fashionable and I want to be stylish, but I want to be taken seriously. And I'm actually hosting people that have real money. And I remember it was a UK brand.

32:14I was always looking to be different. Like whenever someone asked me about my outfit, I didn't want to say Zara. I didn't want to say the same thing. And so being, having that word odd in it drew me to the brand yeah so it's a good name i actually think you need to like own that okay story yeah but i love what you just said there like that odd muse really is a feeling like people we call it well we've there's a few people that say on tiktok and we're just owning it now but we call it like the odd muse effect and it really just met all the clothes make women feel so fabulous and so ready for whatever they're going into whether that is a board meeting whether that's now like a wedding like it just it really is like a coming of age when like a young woman stops shopping fast fashion and moves into odd news and I love that because every single year I've been in business fast fashion is just declining and I have so many young women that have said to me you've changed the way I've shopped like I used to spend the same amount on boohoo and asos and stuff like that but now I just like I want to re-wear this one thing over and over again.

33:18We have people that still wear that blazer five years later. That was my mission to just buy something that you want to wear. That's not only going to last in terms of quality, but also style. Like we're not inspired by trends. We're completely inspired by what has worked before and what our customer will like. But it is a feeling. It is odd. People will, if it's a really important day, people are going to come to Obmuse. And I love that. I also love what Isabel, our mutual friend said about having things that you are known for aesthetically on your personal brand page. So like she only really has a few pieces of colors in her wardrobe because it's actually now what people are drawn to where it's instantly recognizable.

34:00I think that slow fashion and what you have pioneered would be so intimidating sitting at where you were at a 22-year-old woman. And how much money did you have saved to launch this brand, to go up against these huge brands? So I saved like£12 ,000 to try and move out one day. And then I thought, I'm just going to risk it all. I've got, you know, I've got, I felt really steady. Like I hadn't moved out yet. I knew that my parents like pretty solid. They're probably still letting me live in their bedroom now. So I'm so lucky to like have that support. Like they didn't have anything. they couldn't give me anything but they gave me like a secure home and I feel like that's just been everything to me and so I really just like mitigated the risk I was like I can I'll buy a house one day it's fine and so it was 12 ,000 pounds but that all went on stock I had nothing for nothing else like I had no I made my website myself I learned myself I taught myself Shopify I made the logo myself I didn't have anything but this stock that I'd purchased I bought 12 ,000 pounds worth of stock.

35:07And now you've built a 30 million dollar brand. 30 million last year. Yeah. Bootstrapped. Yeah. No investors. If you could do it all over again, would you do the same thing? Yeah. I kind of think it's I feel like not having investors is like my biggest flex for fashion. It's so like when I walk down New Bond Street, I'm like, I'm the only store here that's like female founded with no money from anyone like I'm on the same street as Hermes in New York I'm next door to Totem like and I've done this all by myself with my own cash like I feel like that's something I'll be so proud of and even if we do take investment one day or anything like that I'll always be so proud of how far I took it without any help and I did that with my community I would not have been able to do this if it wasn't for the pre-order model so for like the first three years of odd news I was selling all my stock before I had to pay for it and that was people always ask me about the pre-order model and I'm like the product was that good the first 100 units would sell out and people would pay and wait for five weeks and it's like it's a lot to ask people five weeks like I can't this isn't fast fashion I can't get it back on site within a week like five weeks was even like a push the manufacturer that I work with had just started her business at the time so we was both just like working day and night to get it done because we wanted to build our businesses together and like five weeks was the best we could do but up until like last year like 60 % of our site was on pre-order and I couldn't have built that business like my pre-order my community invested in me and I think that's just the most like niche story that I'm so proud of because I made them want that so much and I made them trust me that much to want to wait for that product because we all have, especially now, like we all have such a thin patience.

37:02We scroll TikTok, we watch it for three seconds, we keep scrolling. Patience is so thin nowadays, but I created something that people were willing to pay for and wait five weeks for. And I think that's so powerful. Now that you're sitting at$30 million of revenue, what is the goal? The goal is to take it to 100 with no investment. And then, because I feel like if you watch me in podcasts a few years ago I'd be like nope never doing investors but I do feel like that would be such a new learning experience for me and definitely something that I want to do I also feel like odd news and the team would deserve that because I recognize that there's only so far that I can take it on my own it would get to a point where it'd be like quite risky to still be running a business solely on your own of that capacity um but I really want to take it to 100 million with no investors.

37:55And I'm in no rush. I'm in no rush. Like that can be 2030. That could be 2035. Like that is just my goal. And so, yeah, that's the goal. I love when you talk about that because I think so many people build a business to sell nowadays. Like you've seen the exits, right? Yeah. And it happened so quickly. Like Hayley B. Brown wrote three years. I know. How do you think about that when you see something like that in the news where you're like, what what do you feel when you hear that headline i always feel like i always ask myself like what if what are people saying um what could that be for odd muse what would odd music journey be like if i took an opportunity that come my way maybe two years ago um but i'm also like there's no rush there's like i'm building a brand with longevity like everyone will tell you in business that you need to strike while the iron's hot and and this is an amazing opportunity when you're going like that you should sell.

38:49But I just, I'm building a brand with longevity and we've got a long way to go. So I'm in no rush to take investment. And I feel like I'm only just really starting to enjoy myself and find myself in the business. So I'm just enjoying it at the moment. Like I'm not someone that went into business to make money. And I feel like that's why I've got such a good relationship with my community. Obviously that's been amazing and I've wanted to like push the brand. But even one thing I'm being really transparent at the moment is we're kind of like lingering at this 30 million. Like I think we'll finish again the same this year with like no growth.

39:25And I'm like really transparent about that because I know that I need to re-strategize this and this is a new challenge for me and I'm learning a lot. I also know that I could go to an investment board and be like, right, we're at 30 million. We want to take it to 100 million. And they could do that for me within like a year or two. I know that. But I want to challenge myself to do that myself and I'm not in a rush to see those numbers and I think yeah some people might think I'm crazy for saying that but I I want to be transparent about it I see I see a lot of articles that go out when a business doesn't grow keep growing like that but I mean I never set out to have a business with 30 million so if I make 30 million for the next five years I'm good I'm happy like that's for me that's so so cool and I think the way I'm going to grow this business is because I'm not putting pressure on myself anymore.

40:18Like I'm going to unlock that 100 million because I'm not that girl that's stressing anymore. So yeah, we're kind of stuck at the 30, but we're re-strategizing. We're changing everything that we're doing. We're doing all new product. We're sorting so many new fabrics. We're just moving into like even more of a luxury era. And I'm just enjoying learning. You said that you didn't start the business to make money. Do you like making money now? I do, but it's funny. Like even since I, it's only since I've monetized my personal brand that I feel financial freedom. I bootstrapped this business. So any money I've had, I've not been attached to.

40:55And I've just had like so many priorities with my money. Like I wanted to buy my dad, my mom and dad a car before I even moved out. I wanted to pay their mortgage off before I even moved out and stuff like that. So the money has been amazing but it's never really felt like mine until I monetized my personal brand and anyone with a fashion brand will know that or anyone with a business will know so many things crop up like in the early stages you could have like 30 ,000 pound in your bank account and then the next day a big invoice hits and it's nothing so I never got attached to that money and I remember when we got a finance director in he was like stunned at like how well I managed the cash flow but it's because I never once got excited, made big purchases.

41:38I never really unlocked financial freedom until I monetized my personal brand. And I think that's really important because you can see those numbers come in, you can get super excited and you can make some silly purchases as you should. But I just, I never did that. And I've had such a separate relationship with the money that is odd news. And I think any bootstrappers will know, you just need to like save everything for a rainy day. Have you made more money from your personal brand than you have as the CEO of the company then? I guess so, yeah. I guess so because I've just like reinvested it all and like obviously there's more money sitting in Oddmuse's account than mine so I don't know how you'd work it but in terms of like how much Oddmuse has paid me into my account versus is my personal brand, technically, yeah.

42:31Well, I think that's why I wanted to ask it, because I think a lot of founders, especially women, are afraid to say how their business is doing with revenue, because people in their life feel like they've made$30 million. Yeah. Did you ever feel scared that, like, the people in your life, whether it was your family, your friends, whoever, would be like, now Amy's made it, and, like, she can take us out for dinner, or she can take us to the club? No, definitely not. I've had, I'm really lucky with the circle around me. Like growing, I've had like my two best friends for like 12 years. Like I'm not, I don't have like loads of friends and I like it that way.

43:08And I've just got such a solid family. And I think everything, even to this point, is like still such a nice surprise. If I do anything, there's no expectations. And I feel like I'm really lucky because I know some people wouldn't have the same experience. but it just makes me want to give more. I'm obsessed with you. I feel like this is why you were asking me how it's going in the UK and it has been so interesting that a lot of people, when even the money conversation comes up and you know that's kind of like the whole point of the show is for the Bella, we call the Bella that's listening to this, to really feel like she doesn't have to follow the grain.

43:46She doesn't have to listen to the gatekeeper. She can find financial freedom and what I call fuck you money to be able to leave any room that she's no longer respected in. But when it actually comes down to talking with the numbers, whether you're in the US or the UK, it's a very scary thing. It is. And it really is. And it goes back to when I come on these podcasts, I know as a listener what I would want to hear from me. But when I'm in real life, I would never talk like this at all. I would never sell myself. I would never. If someone comes over to me and says, Odd Muse is amazing, I'll be like, like, it really just is a British thing.

44:20we just want to curl up into a ball and we don't want to seem like we're boasting. I think that's the main thing. Like we don't want to come across like we're showing off. But I think I'm kind of in this era where I'm like so proud of how I've used my success. And like even just like my life dream was to look after my parents the way I have. So the second I paid their mortgage off was like my I made it moment. Like how can I ever have a down day again? Like I've paid my mum and dad's mortgage off, I've unlocked the freedom that they've deserved their whole life after giving me everything. So I think I'm just really proud of how I've used my success.

44:55And I love to talk about it. How do you think about setting goals for money now if you've already achieved something for your parents like that? Now when I think about like when I speak about this 100 million, all I really think about is my team. Because with that 100, it's not about making 100 million pounds it's about building a brand with longevity it's about giving the team all these opportunities it's about bringing more people in that everyone can learn from I think that's what excites me about I always think about money and what it can do for like everyone around me and so I think that's what I think about when I think about money I'm like what would this unlock and I think that that's with 100 million I'm like this would unlock so much for the team and the brand what are the investments that you've made both let's do your personal brand and for odd muse that were a lot of money but paid off in the end to grow both of those businesses i think i mean for odd muse there's been many many times where i've just risked it all and like that comes down to the stores like even with my new york store that was an insane amount of money and i was in far too deep when i started realizing the deposits and like yeah definitely the stores i remember when me open new bond street this guy was like on his bike and he stopped me like what shop is opening here like i live here and i'm like oh it's my brand old music he was like oh who's that your investor and i was like no i'm opening and he went to me you're brave that's what he said to me he was like you're really brave and i was like yeah i am i am brave and this is going to work and there's you should come back on saturday and see the queue outside the door so yeah and even when I opened the New York store.

46:36This is the craziest story. I had to pay my deposit and I had one of the guys phone me and say, can you send me$100 ,000 just to prove that you can pay the deposit next week? So like as a woman, I had to give a deposit to my deposit. Yeah. Yeah. Did you pay that? Yeah, but I got it back. That is something that I feel like deserves even a different conversation where it's like about being a woman in business what do you think is our benefit of being a woman in business and where do you feel like situations like that hurt us um I mean it's never really hurt me like I love being underestimated I don't I get a lot of questions about this and I feel like people expect like a more of an emotional response and like it's a disadvantage but I think I think it's like okay I'm brave I'm more than brave that to be doing this And yeah, I even get like there's people that really thought that New Bond Street store wasn't going to last through Christmas.

47:37And it's just like the New York store in January, we signed the permanent lease off for a pop up store. Like just the fuel that Odd Muse gives me and how amazing it is and how much it has defied all my expectations just kind of like fuel me whenever I'm in a room of people that underestimate me. when you distill that down to like what is it is it viral product is it founder-led content is it like being in in front of cultural trends that are happening like what is it it it's honestly the community that I've built and the die-hard odd news girls that just support everything we do and they've just given me so much confidence in in this and just the longevity of the brand like being able to afford rent on Mercer Street in Soho and New Bond Street in London, just being able to pay that invoice every month is insane to me.

48:32So I think just the longevity of the brand, like every month that goes by, every year that goes by, every store that we open, it just builds more and more in me. And I feel like that's why you see like such a change in me in this fifth year, because it's like, I've been running this business for five years. It's so hard to run a business for five years. Like it's one thing to scale a business. It's a whole other thing to maintain that. Maintaining is so hard and that's what we're doing. And I'm so proud of us for doing that. Let's talk about the difference between building a brand in different markets because I feel like you've actually done it in the US and in the UK and now you're doing it in Dubai.

49:09Yeah. Why? The brand has always done really well out there through no marketing, no like real push from us. And I think it's really important when you're in a market like that to recognize the business you have and learn more about it. So at the moment, I'm spending a lot of time learning about the market and the culture there. And I think that's really important because I don't want to get to a day where odd news is huge in the Middle East and I haven't done anything to respect the Middle Eastern customer. So I'm learning so much about the Emirati woman. Like I meet women that tell me that they buy our bridesmaid dresses for at home date nights with their husband.

49:49How cool is that? Obviously, they are modest when they go out. But when they're at home with their husband, they wear whatever they want. And Odd Muse is like such a part of that for them. So they'll buy like the bridesmaid dresses in every color and they get super dressed up. And that is just learning about these women. They are so amazing. and I want to do more for them. That's great that you're wearing odd muse for your at-home date nights, but you need to be able to wear odd muse when you're out of the house. What do you think the best market is to build a business in in the aspirational luxury fashion category you're in?

50:27I think the old-fashioned term, you crack America, you crack the world, is still very relevant. There's a lot of people in America, they are always looking for like the newest coolest thing the coolest London brand like I love all the New York girls come in and think we're like the coolest thing ever just because we're from London and I love that so I still truly believe you crack America you crack the world and I knew that from the very beginning like one thing one thing I really remembered when I started this business is okay I'm in the UK we are on a tiny island and as much as I want to convince young women to stop shopping fast fashion they are a lot more powerful than me so I'm going to tell them my mission and I'm going to slowly get them on board but from day one I'm putting all my ads to the US from day one I'm speaking to the US and we was really only sending orders out to the US for like the first two years like we was not a UK brand big in the UK like we had a lot of followers in the UK but we weren't quite getting them to convert it took a lot of time to build trust.

51:35It wasn't until 2023 or 2022 when I released our Pell Dress and got into the dress market that I really kind of convinced the UK girls to get on board with this. I had to prove myself. But the US loved us from day one. I mean, I ordered the blazer from day one. Exactly. And a lot of people know that they assume that we kind of went into the US when we opened the New York store, but the US has always been like a large majority of the business. I think something that I found shocking about you personally then was that you ended up building it from the UK, moving to the US when? Last year. And now you've already left.

52:12Yeah. Why? I think the main thing really was I wasn't actually ready to leave my team. It wasn't necessarily like a US thing. But I think what made it really stressful is I'd moved to the US to really set this market on fire. like they'd been ordering from us for a while from the UK warehouse we needed to open a warehouse we needed to do a big marketing strategy and then within a day of being there Trump bought in 145 tariff so all of a sudden someone ordering a$200 blazer would have to pay like$500 to get it and that doesn't make sense no one's doing that so I kind of watched the business overnight half and that's quite stressful because I just signed the lease in New York we couldn't get any stock it was like this time where I didn't know what to do I kept stopping the shipment because my shipment was going to be like an extra like a hundred thousand dollars just to get it into the port I didn't know what to do so there was like two months when we first opened the New York store where there was nothing you could buy in there and yeah that was that was Trump and I remember going to bed every single Sunday so nervous because every Monday he would announce something new with the China tariffs.

53:22And it was really hard because I built this brand with integrity and with this one woman in China, this family run company. So the obvious thing people are saying to me is move from China, get a factory somewhere else. And it's like, but these people literally like my family. Like if I don't put an order in next month, like their business, they only make for odd news. Like this is insane. I can't leave them. So I was just stuck and I think I could have been anywhere in the world but I was in New York and I feel like it just kind of ruined my experience in the US but I do keep saying to myself I've got another New York chapter in me because I didn't get to do that how I wanted to do it like I'm a fashion girl at a core like I deserved my dream year in New York and I didn't get it so yeah I get asked a lot about maintaining friendships when you're building a business right especially when you are transitional and you're like able to pick up and move, how do you think about friendships and being transitional and putting in the time to be able to have those relationships when you are focused on building your business right now?

54:28Okay, this is such a fun thing for busy women to do. Me and my friends do this thing called a Wednesday waffle. So every single Wednesday, we send each other a minute long video name. And we only talk about ourselves in that minute. We We don't ask. We just say, this is what I've been doing this week. And we spend a whole minute telling each other what's going on. And that is how I stay so connected to my best friends. And I mean, that sounds really silly, but it's 2026. And that's how we like, I want to know what my friends are doing. And I love to say all my friends and family, I like take along with me.

55:07Like if there's ever an event or there's ever something that I can share with my friends and family, like we're doing it like everyone gets to enjoy odd muse and the way it's changed my life so yeah but Wednesday waffle is a good one do you know what a waffle is what I eat like a pancake no so Wednesday waffle is like when you waffle you just like talk too much that's so me except I've had to train myself okay so to stop talking if you're like talking too much you're waffling so that's that unlocks what Wednesday waffle means you'll probably really confusing a minute I go but yeah if you're waffling you're just talking too much and you send it in a group chat yeah just a Wednesday waffle do any of your industry friends or best friends sell a ton of odd muse yeah yeah Isabelle sells a lot of odd muse it's very like her style like super super capsule and I mean yeah whenever I meet someone in the industry the first thing I do is like kit them out with a new wardrobe as you should as you but I want to do that and I think that's the reason it actually works really well because I have sat there and actually thought about the pieces that not the pieces that I want to sell like there's there's a few things in there that are just not in stock and I went through the ends of the earth to try and get them for you like you can't even link it and sell it at the moment because I can't get them um but it is really just super intentional like what I want them to wear um so yeah it's never to like sell it's because I want to share odd muse with the world and I know it's gonna do great things for the wardrobe do you sell the most odd muse yeah i do and who's right after you who's right after me you know what the influencer side of things or the creative side of things is super new i've only just hired a head of influencer it's all just been like organic random moments until now um but i'm like every week when we do trade i'm the biggest like on the shop i'm the number one and i like it that way yeah because no one's going to sell your brand like you and i think that should always be the way but I mean I mean there's so many US creators like you know like acquired style whenever she posts it goes insane like there's so many like huge girls like that but in terms of actually like building that into a strategy that's really new for odd news which I love because that's when we're talking about that 100 million how much am I going to unlock there if I've done 30 without an influencer strategy all we've done is have like a shop my account and like make sure that earning commission when they sell odd news there's been no strategy there so I'm really excited I'm learning about that a lot more because up until now, we've just like sent product out and just hope that you'd like it.

57:37We need to talk about Bentley right now because Bentley has collabed with you, Joe and the Juice and Gustav Guy. And I'm like, who is running this at Bentley, this luxury car brand? That's one. I love the Bentley relationship because one thing I say about Odd Muse is for our younger consumer, it invites you into a world that really didn't really care before. And I had a very open conversation with Bentley and I said, I don't think I'm going to sell any Bentleys for you, but I'm going to make it look really chic. I don't know if my customers buying Bentleys yet, but they're going to. And that's how Obuse makes them feel.

58:10Like they're going to be in a Bentley one day. And like even the first Bentley collab we did was the Bentley booth. So everyone come to the New York store and had like a photo booth in the Bentley. And like all these girls are like, I've never sat in a Bentley before. And I'm like, neither, like everyone. So I think I love how Bentley lets us invite our customers into this luxury world. I mean, who doesn't love a Bentley? I just asked all of you guys this one question. What is the one thing holding you and your team back from using AI properly? The answers were fascinating because everyone was basically circling the same problem, the same one that I had.

58:46They don't know where to start. People said things like, we don't know the right prompts. We don't know how to set up an AI agent. Our systems don't talk to each other. I think every company today needs someone thinking about this properly. How can AI save time or increase output? How can it make your business smarter without replacing the human judgment that actually makes the work really good and unique? That is where our sponsor, Fiverr Pro, is so valuable. Because it connects you with vetted specialists who understand AI and, more importantly, understand how to turn it into a real outcome for your business.

59:18So instead of your team trying to figure it out alone, you can bring in expert talent who can move quickly, plug into what you're building, and help you use AI in a way that actually works. Visit pro.fiverr.com to learn more. I'm in my luteal phase. We all know that point in our cycle where our body is basically like, please do not make this any harder than it needs to be. But during that time, I still want to move my body. I want to go for a walk. I want to get outside, maybe stretch, but I am not forcing a high-intensity workout when my body is asking for something kinder and softer. And that is where Lululemon just gets it so right.

59:54And their Groove Relaxed Cinch Pant is exactly the kind of thing I want to wear on those days. It has this oversized, relaxed fit, so there's actually space for your body to move and breathe. Nothing feels too tight or restrictive. It's perfect for that lower-impact movement. It's made with their Nulu fabric and has a super soft, barely there feeling. I only just learned that when Lululemon does colors, they do it with limited drops, and they sell out so much faster than I realized. Lululemon offers free returns too, so there's never a risk if you decide to change your mind. So head to lululemon.com to get your hands on their Groove Relaxed Cinch Pants.

1:00:32This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales, using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.

1:01:18Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required, compatibility and availability varies 18+. I feel like that's why we got along so well, because our missions are so aligned. everything you're saying around these girls. I'm like, I have tried to democratize the access in rooms that I have crawled my way into, gotten into, and in a way that's so approachable and digestible. But it has been met with a lot of criticism in the past. A lot of people that I would say are gatekeepers and like things being kept a certain way to be like, stop doing what you're doing because I don't like that people get access to this.

1:01:57Have you ever been met with the seem sort of absolutely and I think as you grow it's just especially when you're posting online it's just something that happens to everyone and that's what I tell myself like this is just normal this is just the reality unfortunately like I really think that the way people are allowed to have these platforms and speak so crazy about people will be something that we look back on in like 10 20 years time and we're like how did we let that happen like you know when we look back on all the tabloids and how they used to scrutinize women, I think in 10, 20 years' time we're going to have conversations like, how the hell in this world of 2026 and AI do we still let someone with a fake account hurl abuse on something that they know nothing about?

1:02:40Like I had someone the other day when I posted my, I had a Forbes article go out about how I bootstrapped to 30 million and someone commented like, fake account obviously, and said, you should check company's house. She only finished on 3 million profit. That's amazing, by the way. I'm happy with my 3 million profit. What's wrong with 3 million profit? I always call this person Martin from Sussex. I don't know why. So I'm like, Martin from Sussex, where's your 3 million? Like, how can you criticise a woman for only... Who says the words just 3 million? that is shocking to me and even if I sometimes I have to go back because I'm like no this is just like stupid now like if you're really factually incorrect I do every like once in a blue moon I go back and and even if I turned over 30 million and made no profit I still found 200 ,000 people in that year to buy my product whether I made no money or not I did something right I got 200 ,000 people to buy my product in one year so I'm like people just don't get it but they're given this confidence through these like empty platforms that have no real consequence so I am it's taken me a minute but I've just learned that it is just a reality and we're all doing something odd how do you because you said earlier in the conversation that you kind of feel the highs and the lows which I deeply feel like I can be on cloud nine and then one thing happens and I am like it's all going away and it's all terrible and I find it hard.

1:04:20But I think that level of passion is what fuels you to the high moment. So I've always like really like dogged myself down for being like a super sensitive person but I'm like no this level of passion has this whole other side where it's like it has driven the business. So like I can be I can feel everything but I can also like take it to the next level and you just can't have one without the other. I really feel like You can't be so passionate about your business without being so sensitive and so susceptible to what happens. So that's taken me a long time because I've always thought it was a problem in me.

1:04:54But I'm telling myself that like how sensitive I am and how much I actually care is my superpower in this business. Because there's been so many times where it would have been easier to quit. Like 2025 would have been easier to quit. It would have been way easier to just say to someone, I don't understand this whole thing that's happening. I don't understand what Trump could do and politics and all these things. I've just had my head in the sand building this business for the last five years. I can't deal with this. It would have been so easier to quit. So I really pride myself on the fact that every single time, no matter how long I've got, I've just got back up again.

1:05:27I've got straight back up for work again the next day at 6am. How do you stay on top of that type of, not to sound nerdy, but like geopolitical change now, now that you've been in that space where you're like, I had no idea. that this could affect my business. Like, how do you choose your information diet or the things that you're doing to stay in touch with, like, the pop culture of the woman you're talking to, but the lens of a CEO that's thinking about building a global brand? I think still to this day, like, I don't really get too deep into what is going on in the world like I should. Like, I still should.

1:06:04I feel like I should have learned more about what Trump can do and what the effects of this. But also, like, I recognize that all that stuff last year ruined my creativity. So my managing director, my operations director, they know everything and they're going to alert me if there's anything to expect. And there has to be with founders when you are running a business of this size now, if you've got a good team there, they know to kind of keep your head in the clouds a little bit. Because I have to show up for this brand every single day. like if Trump's going to do something volatile tomorrow they're not going to tell me before I come on this podcast if it's going to really affect the business we're going to have a chat about it at the end of the day or they're going to pick and choose their times because we have seen such a positive impact when I when I'm feeling good odd music's doing good like there's this weird other founders will feel the same there's like this weird synergy between where you are in your life and how your business is doing so yeah I think it's important to have a good team and have that covered in your business.

1:07:08But you have to allow yourself to be, especially if you're creatively fueling your business, you have to forgive yourself and have your head in the clouds a little bit. Because otherwise, there's not going to be good product or good marketing going out. Especially when you're the creative force behind it. Exactly. What do you think the role of a supportive partner is in that pursuit of keeping your heads a little in the clouds and just like having a solid family life so important like that to me is like my parents didn't have any money to give me but like like love and support and stability is like the best currency and I never ever like take that for granted like I know I wouldn't have the business I have today if I didn't have just solid friends solid family and even my partner I've been my partner for like 10 years he was like on the floor with me at 3am making this like shit little box that I made for my end of year projects at university like it was a shoewear brand and we like made the packaging like at like 3am the next morning I was presenting it so he's been there from the very beginning and I think all girls in their 20s like we waste so much time on like people we waste so much time on crap friends and crap boys and I just I was able to solely focus on my business because I just made really right decisions with good people.

1:08:27And I think my parents taught me what to look for in people and what to enjoy. And I think my parents have always really taught me to just really be curious about others. And I think being interested in others and genuinely like not really bothered about talking about myself too much and really just like, what do you do? Tell me everything. And wanting to learn from people has just really made building this business quite seamless for me at times. I just started a bit of controversy by saying that my age gap relationship actually sets me up for success because I can be very selfish right now. And my partner is not focused on who's going to be the entrepreneur.

1:09:06He's done his thing. And so for me, it's like his attention, his time is so focused on literally how can I think about my business and what can we do? And I think I'm so curious because you guys are a similar age. For a similar age, yeah. How do you think about being driven, masculine in work, successful, ambitious, in terms of having someone in a similar age relationship? I think it's important to say, like, it hasn't been easy. Like, there's been times where it's been, like, even when we moved to New York, like, I had to say to him, like, the only way we can do this is if you come and work for Odd Muse for a year.

1:09:41And the first thing was, like, I'm not working for my girlfriend. Like, I don't want to do that. What am I going to tell my friends? I'm not doing that. and I said to him okay but in 20 years time are we gonna say oh you worked for Ogmuse for a year or are we gonna say oh my god we was young and we was out every night in Manhattan and we just lived our best life like what are we gonna do and I was I had to remind him so many times over the years I don't listen to the naysayers and like to our core we know that we're like two normal kids from like a small town in Essex everything is so cool that we do like and that we never lose sight of that like we're so we're so happy to be on this journey and I think again it comes from like really wanting to share that success with him we're now hitting a point where I'm like happy with where I am at and I am really focusing on like how we could like take him to the next level and he's um we're like renovating properties together and we're building up him a property portfolio and I just think you can't do it without real love like I want that for him I'm not in competition with him and I'll share everything with him he would do the exact same for me if Odd Muse was his if Odd Muse was his we would live a very different life like he probably wouldn't like have me working or anything like that I know that I would obviously work but I think it just takes real love and my sister always says that Josh is just like my person at the end of the day where I can just forget everything.

1:11:11Like I, in the last five years, I've had such a crazy time building this business. But as soon as I walk through the door, like everything is silly again, and we're just together and there's nothing else going on. And even that time in New York, like it was so stressful. Like half of my business is failing. I've got an empty store in New York, but he's like, let's get on a seat. Like, where are we going tonight? Like, just forget about it. Let's do it. That support has been really valuable to me. But it hasn't been easy. Like you get a lot of people that think it's super strange at the moment i'm in a relationship where i earn more money than the man and that is really uncomfortable for people to get their head around um but we're on this earth for a very long time i believe in him as much as he's believed in me over the years and he's going to be super successful and it's turning so 31 of women in the uk now out earn their partner.

1:12:01In the U.S., it's 37%. Okay. And 26 % in Canada. Interesting. I think that people are uncomfortable when things are new. Yeah. But if you actually understand women's potential, even if you look at like women public market CEOs, the way that they lead, the way that their business success is, it is not crazy that women are turning into these uber successful business leaders because we lead through what I believe even the next generation wants like vulnerability and emotion and the ability to relate to people yeah you seem to not care about what people think about you is that a skill or is that something that you were born with no that's a skill that I've learned a hundred percent I that's a skill new 2026 skill and not something I was born with I've always cared way too much about what people think.

1:12:58But I love that. I love that I'm giving off that energy because I'm really trying. So thank you for saying that. You give off like the best energy. Oh, thank you. For the minute I met you, I mean, I actually didn't buy the brand five years ago or whatever for you. I had no idea who you were. I love that though. Yeah. And then I think it was like I had started hearing about you when I signed with Stephen I had heard about you more and then I over the last few months had been like following and following and like become obsessed with you and then I got to meet you at Cannes and we just bonded so hard and we had a really interesting conversation too about weddings and like the pressure of that where are you at with that now oh I still haven't started planning it I think I just think for the first time in six years since starting this business I know what it's like to wake up and not feel stressed.

1:13:52And I feel like I don't want to, I'm scared to invite the stress of planning a wedding in. So yeah, I'm unsure, but I've made a decision that at the end of this year, I'm going to do a big engagement party because I love a party and I'm going to decide whether that makes me want to have a wedding or whether that scratches the itch and I'll just go down the registry office at the town hall. So that's my decision. But I mean, I've been with Josh like 10 years so we're in no rush I kind of almost I was talking about this last night I'm like no I think I want to get married when like a designer's going to give me a custom dress and it's Vogue Weddings vibes so I can wait I need I want to I want to keep elevating and I want him to be super happy with where he is like at the moment he's building himself and I feel like in the next year or two, I really believe he's going to be super, super successful.

1:14:45And I know for him that he's really happy now, but I know I want him to be super happy in his career. So we're just kind of in no rush. So right now, what is on your big vision board? Just that 100 million figure. like I really and like I said earlier it's so much more than 100 million in sales on Shopify it is how much it unlocks how many lessons I'm going to have to learn how many new departments I'm going to build how many senior hires I'm going to bring in and learn from that my team are going to learn from this core office like it's something like this is like so inspiring to me and even I've just started a podcast like even seeing this set I'm like I'm just so excited for how much how elevated you can become through just having a bigger budget.

1:15:36So do you know what I mean? I love you. So that's what I think about when I think about that 100 million figure. And that's why, yeah, that's why that's the main thing that I think about. But there's so much to that. I love it. Okay, Amy, we're going to do some rapid fire. Okay. Ready? Amy Smale. Yeah. What is the last thing you put on your credit card?

1:16:00okay i bought the chloe jelly sandals you did they're so cute they kind of look like they're from the disney shop but i love them the tortoise shell ones and yeah i wish i had a better answer for that but i just got myself the chloe jellies love what is the last most expensive thing oh i just went crazy in paris with isabel for like the first time ever we got a ysl bag each and some denim jeans and i thought that was pretty cool iconic Had loads of champagne in the store. Started telling the sales advisor how much Saint Laurent means to us. And we bought our first designer bag ourselves from Saint Laurent.

1:16:35He probably thought, get these crazy girls out of the store. But that was probably the most expensive transaction recently. Love. Okay, you can only wear one for the rest of your life. Earrings, sunglasses, purses, or rings? Probably sunglasses. I feel like you can just unlock a new personality with a good pair of shades. Can I mix and match, or is it just one sunglass? What's your sunglass brand? Oh, so many. I'm loyal to none. I love some. I go like I can have a pair of H &M sunnies. I can have a pair of Chanel's. I love mixing. I love having a million sunglasses. Like I'm packed for this trip.

1:17:08I have like a Perspex case of just sunglasses. I'm not loyal to one. We love that. OK, you have to start a brand in your 20s. Are you moving to New York or L.A.? New York. What's the first thing you do every morning? Oh, I sit there for like 20 minutes and just silence. Like I need that 20 minutes completely on my own. No phone? No phone, nothing. I just sit with a coffee and like sometimes even close my eyes on the sofa. I just need that 20 minutes of silence in the morning. Love that. You can only visit one place for the rest of your life. Where is it? Oh, that's a good one.

1:17:49Probably New York, you know. I had Trump ruined it for me last year, but I am just a different woman in New York. I dress better. I work harder. Like, I get it all done. Probably New York. You can only work with one influencer for the rest of your life. Myself. Love you. Okay, who is your favorite comfort creator in the UK and in the US? I love this question. UK is Lorna. Previously, Lorna Lux. Her Instagram name is now Lorna. always been she's been a huge part of the op-muse journey um but she has always been such an inspiring comfort influence i love her so much and what about the us i love the twins i love i love i love um danielle and bridget i just love seeing what they do every day and how much they achieve in one day is insane it's insane they're just running on just craziness like iced coffees they're just brilliant you can do a collab with a high luxury fashion brand who is it my main thing right now this is probably a bit specific but I really want to get in Harrods and I really want to do more like odd muse luxe range like we're releasing 100 suede jacket that's going to retail for like 600 pounds I really want to keep going with that so I get in Harrods that's my main thing I can't think of like an actual brand because I feel like honestly Bentley's unlocked that for me like the bentley thing is so cool to me um but i mean second to that it's got to be saint laurent like the structure everything is just super high fashion and i love that okay we do these on hsr hsr love notes you know what they are no okay it's like an affirmation to retrain your brain you can only tell yourself one hsr love note for the rest of your life what is it i've got one thing but i don't know if it's quite superficial to say but it's something that I used to always tell myself.

1:19:41I used to always tell myself money is easy. I always used to think about how money can so easily be spent, so why can't it easily be earned? And I always used to tell myself, I used to say to myself, I am in receiving mode, money is easy. I used to say that to myself every morning about odd news sales, and I think that's kind of just unlocked this really positive energy that I have with money, receiving it, saving it, for this like saving that rainy day fund cash flow so i would always say money is easy but i feel like i need to do something that's a bit more like girly no i actually love that i think girls are so afraid of talking about money yeah actually giving people tools of like how to even start talking about it is really helpful yeah a lot of people ostrich yeah like they just put their head in the sand they're like i don't want to look at it i'm gonna go short-term gratification yeah not right now and ultimately that only sets you back exactly so money is easy just tell yourself Love that.

1:20:37Love it. Okay, you have to title this season of your life, Amy. What is it called? It's like a rebirth. What's the chic word for rebirth? Amy 2.0 or something. Amy 2.0 is 100 % the era, the chapter. Amy Small, where can people find you? So my brand is obviously Opamuse London on all channels, and it is at AmySmallX on all social channels. And my sub stack. I love my sub stack. I have to shout out my sub stack, which is Amy Smell X again. And how can people help you? How can HSR help you? Just continuing to spread this hot, smart, rich message. Like I loved when you stood up in Cannes and really spoke about your mission because it is something that we are.

1:21:27I just feel like more women need to hear it. We need to be more comfortable with our success. I love that T-shirt that you wear. Future Nepo baby parent. Like, I love that. Because why do we slander Nepo babies? Like, their parents have done cool shit. So I think just teaching women to be unapologetic is just so important. And it's so inspiring. And I've just, I've seen how much it can unlock for me when I just, like, step into that hot, smart, rich era. That's like what you were saying. It's the odd muse effect. But for me, it's hot, smart, rich energy. Yes. Like, whenever I sign emails, I'm, like, sending you hot, smart, rich energy.

1:22:02Yeah. And I think people for so long were like, this is so weird. And now you get it. You're like, okay. Well, it's embarrassing until it's not, right? It's embarrassing until it's not. Yeah. Amy, we love you. Thank you so much for coming on. I can't wait to wear all my stuff. Yay. You can have so many pictures. I want to see you in the clothes. Yeah, I'll be linking Shop My. Oh, yeah. You'll be like number two. I'd love that if it was me and you. I'd love that. Oh, let's do it. Love you. Thank you so much.

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