Body Language Mistakes Every Woman Must Avoid To Get Rich (Two Bags Look Cheap!)

22:20So if someone raises their eyebrows up, we go, oh, they're really interested. That's another way to be like, oh, they said something great. If they're leaning in, so leaning in is a pre-activation cue. When I lean, we activate the five senses. I could smell you better. I could taste you better. I could touch you better. I could hear you better. I could smellies. I forgot the last one. The last, whatever the last five cents, fifth sentence. So it's pre-activation. If I'm talking and someone goes, what? No way. Right? Like you just know that I got activated in a way, that's a topic you want to double down on.

22:53So for extroverts, if you see head nodding, tilting, eyebrow raise, or leaning in, that's something that they want to hear about or talk about more, and that's where you want to double down. Can I ask you something very tactical about men versus women then? Because I think you even said it, the Botox conversation. Yes. Although I think 25 % of Botox is now being done by men. So that's growing. But specifically with hair and earrings and like little things that women can be doing, what is distracting for people and what is actually elevating your warmth and competence cues for a woman listening to this?

23:28Thank you so much for asking. Our ornaments, so when we talk about all these signals, so we're sending warmth and competence, That happens in four main channels. First the words we use. The types of words you use signal your warmth and competence. If warm people use words like yay, fab, whoop, wow. We love emojis and exclamation points, highly warm. But competent people use totally different types of words. They love get it done words, graphs, charts, bullet points. They literally speak differently. The second channel is our body language, so our facial expressions, my gestures, how I'm moving my body through space.

24:00I actually took off my shoes today on purpose. I did because I wanted more warmth. So I'm always in heels or boots, always, always. But I was like, no, like Maggie is a peer. You know, like the ladies listening, we could be friends. We could be friends. So I'm like a warmth cue is literally taking off my shoes. Thank goodness my toes are done, right? So that's a warmth cue. That's body language, body language and ornaments. The third one is vocal. So how I say my words, that also changes things. Like for example, if I were to be giving my interview in this tone of voice. Now when I speak to my daughters, I'm usually much more up here.

24:35And this feels very natural to me, but you would treat me very differently if I was answering questions like this. You would think of me differently. You would approach me differently. You would probably hug me longer. You would nod differently. But when I'm speaking to my daughters, this is how I speak. So your tone also affects a lot of that. And the last one is ornaments, so our jewelry, our hair. Here's what you have to remember. Self-touch can be perceived two ways. It can be perceived as nervousness or it can be perceived as flirtation. So if you don't want to do either of those things, you should not self-touch in any way.

25:07And what does that mean? Self-touch is fixing our hair, fixing our earrings, tucking our hair, tucking our clothes, even wringing our hands, playing with our bracelets. Like, you know, I wore silent bracelets today. I did not wear bangles because I knew that they can't clank, clank, clank, clank, clank, clank. And that, especially for men, is very distracting and it takes away from your competence. Even though it has nothing to do with competence, in fact, having an expensive bangle could be perceived as more competent, that distraction is almost like an audible self-touch. It's like you're hearing it.

25:37So anytime you are self-touching, it's going to read as, you are nervous or do you like me? So in a business context, I do not want you self-touching at all. Your hair, your jewelry, your clothing should be able to live as they are, especially if all eyes are on you. Presentations, podcasts, interviews, pitches. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes.

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28:10I'm in my luteal phase. we all know that point in our cycle where our body is basically like, please do not make this any harder than it needs to be. But during that time, I still want to move my body. I want to go for a walk. I want to get outside, maybe stretch. But I am not forcing a high-intensity workout when my body is asking for something kinder and softer. And that is where Lululemon just gets it so right. And their Groove Relaxed Cinch Pant is exactly the kind of thing I want to wear on those days. It has this oversized, relaxed fit, so there's actually space for your body to move and breathe.

28:44Nothing feels too tight or restrictive. It's perfect for that lower impact movement. It's made with their Nulu fabric and has a super soft, barely there feeling. I only just learned that when Lululemon does colors, they do it with limited drops, and they sell out so much faster than I realized. Lululemon offers free returns too, so there's never a risk if you decide to change your mind. So head to lululemon.com to get your hands on their Groove Relaxed Cinch Pant. For women specifically, I think as I've gotten older and you realize just the amount that we are doing to keep it together all day, every day, like we need to simplify this for the women that are listening of like, what are the cues that are the most important when they're showing up in a business setting?

29:29Let's start with that first. What are the things that are not as important for them, but it's like if you can't work on decision making for these today, it is okay. That can be in the future. Yeah. And then we can go into the other areas of our life, but let's really start with that business. Okay. So first there are 97 cues to choose from. So you have a lot of choice here. You want to start with the cues that feel most natural to you. The last thing I want you to do is be inauthentic, right? And if there are cues, like for example, one of the cues I teach is a steeple cue, which is when you touch the tips of your fingers together.

29:58This is a very – it was rated as the most charismatic hand gesture. It's like a power pose for the hands. I feel a little silly doing it, to be honest with you. It's actually on my book cover, which is so funny. I did that freaking photo shoot and I took one picture with the steeple. My publisher was like, that's the one. And I was like, what? Which is so funny because I actually am like, when I do it, I feel like I'm like talking to the moon, like a little bit. But some people love it. So that for me is not a cue that I want to do, right? So you have 97 cues to choose from. And luckily, women especially are already super good at this.

30:33Like, we are so dynamic. We are so, like, chameleons. For example, you know, we have my cousin and your mutual friend, Sam. Sam Cox, we love you. Sam. Okay, so my cousin, we didn't even know we had this connection until, like, today. So Sam went on Shark Tank, right? Sam on Shark Tank is very different than Sam hanging out by the pool. On purpose. Women know this. We know that if we have to go on Shark Tank and pitch our business, we're going to dial up the competence and the warmth at first, right? So we are already doing this. I want us to be purposeful with it. So first, your first six seconds.

31:06This is the most important aspect of any interaction, especially high stakes. All my women who are leading businesses, hiring, negotiating, raising VC funds, the first six seconds are everything. In fact, I would even go as far to say the person you are pitching to decides everything about you in the first six seconds and the rest of the meeting is them just justifying that opinion. So your first six seconds need to be very purposeful. The moment someone first sees you is when your first impression starts. It's not the moment you start talking. Let's look at Shark Tank, for example. I like to watch just the entrance on Shark Tank and I can almost always predict if that entrepreneur is going to get a pitch.

31:49because as they walk down the hallway and they have their first word, hi sharks, morning sharks, that tells them everything. One, did they take up space while they walked? Right? It's like, were they hunched over, taking up as little space as possible? Did they show their palm? We love a palm, especially in the first six seconds. So whenever I hop on video, hop on camera, walk into a room, when I'm doing any kind of high stakes, morning, good to see everyone. Thank you so much for having me. It's actually biological. We like to see an open palm because it shows we're I'm not hiding anything. Is this why Taylor Swift always does performances like this?

32:21Constant. I think she actually is so naturally charismatic that she doesn't even realize why it works. She just knows it works. But that is why you're constantly very highly charismatic people. They're always constantly palm up. And that is because, you know, think about, you know, caveman days. If you can't see someone's hands, like if I were to do the entire interview with my hands, no. My trust immediately goes down. So if I have my hands... And women do this. They tuck their hands into their legs. I'm like, no, especially in their first six seconds. Or they use chairs without armrests. I'm like, no, because an armrest makes me take up more space, right?

32:55Like even having the pillow here helps. By the way, your arm looks skinnier if your arm's out. Obviously. Obviously. Exactly. You've got to have that out. Like pop it out. Yes. For many reasons, we should use armrests. So palm, taking up space, especially this distance. My favorite distance is the distance between your ear and your shoulder. We want to maximize this as much as possible. It actually makes you look more competent and confident. than your very first word. I don't care what the rest of your intonation is. I want it to be in the lowest end of your natural range. Listen to the difference.

33:24Morning. Morning. Who do you want to listen to? Second one. Absolutely. We get to be purposeful with this. Right? So if I don't want to speak up as much in a meeting, my high might be morning. Right? Like my flavor that day is like haven't had my coffee, don't want to talk first. So, if I come in with like, morning, right, I don't want… So, we can be intentional with this, right? We're already very good at this. So hands, space you take up, intuition, do not hold your breath on your first word. This is the biggest mistake I see women make. They go, hi, good to see you. Or they answer the phone, hello?

34:08Do not hold your breath and speak at the top of your breath. It makes you sound little. It makes you sound naive, and it gives away all your competence. I don't care what you say next, but speak on the out-breath. So, morning, hello, good to see you. So don't hold your breath and go really high. If you nail those first six seconds, everything else is easier. Those are the cues that matter the most. So you said the first six seconds, but people are making this impression about you before you even say anything. What are people judging before you even speak in that first six seconds? They're trying to decide, can I trust you and can I rely on you?

34:41Right? But like warmth and competence makes up 82 % of our impressions of people. 82%. So you can practice the most impressive stories, the funniest stories, the best numbers. And I have a lot of women who go into pitches and they're like, I had the perfect presentation. I'm like, great. Show me your stage entrance. They're like, what? And they come on and they're holding a bunch of things or they're not sure what to do. They don't want to plant or they're pacing. And I'm like, it doesn't even matter what's in your pitch and presentation. I've already decided if I can trust you and I can rely on you.

35:09So we're trying to answer those two questions. Can I trust you? Can I rely on you? And then everything else backs that up. That's what we're trying to decide in those first six seconds. And is that being decided by what you're wearing, the way that you carry yourself, if you have multiple bags? What are people actually looking at to decide if they can trust you and if they can rely on you? All of those things. Unfortunately, all of those things. But fortunately, all those things. Right? So everyone can't have the same cues. Otherwise, we'd look robotic. So there is some research that shows that one bag is ideal.

35:37So we don't like multiple bags, which is like sort of a silly thing. but that sort of shows you're put together. Comfortable in your clothes is another thing that's hard to measure, but I think people know what I mean. If you're in shoes that are uncomfortable, that actually ricochets through your entire body. It ricochets through your face. I actually did an interview one time with a woman who was so competent. It was going so well, but occasionally she would make these very weird microexpressions. And I was like, you know, I'm just going to ignore it. I'm going to bring her back. The second interview, she was so relaxed and great.

36:06And I was like, hey, your first interview, were you nervous to meet me? And And she was like, oh my gosh, I was wearing my roommate's heels and they hurt so bad. And every time I moved my feet, they would pinch and I had blisters. So ever since then, I'm like, you have to be comfortable in your clothes. One of the reasons why even I changed today is I was like, I think I'm going to want to sit like Maggie. Also, I like to mirror you. Mirroring is next level. So we talk about cues. Mirroring is a way to show nonverbal respect. So when we are sitting casually, and whenever I watch your interviews, you're sitting casually, I was in a beautiful but very formal silk pink dress earlier.

36:40And I was like, I'm not going to be able to relax like Maggie. And I want to be on the same page as her. I want you to feel comfortable. I want the listeners to feel comfortable. And so mirroring and matching ornaments and clothes, mirroring and matching non-verbally, like I'm nodding more with you than I would with like Stephen Bartlett. Like I nod way less with him, right? I have more body movement with you because you're also moving. And also that feels natural to me. I also think that I'm matching your tone of voice. Like I think our tone is actually the same right now by accident. That's an accidental cue.

37:10So the more we can mirror and match also the better. Let's say you don't nail the first six seconds. Can you recover? Yes, you can recover in the same interaction or second interaction. Same interaction. Okay, so first forget it and move on. Like don't let that be baggage for you. Like social overthinking, it reads. If you are socially overthinking, oh my gosh, I messed up that first impression, it is going to read on your face, your body, and your voice. So forget it. Like literally delete it, right? It cannot affect you anymore. Do not let it make you negatively contagious. What's going to convince someone next?

37:49High, credible competence, amazing data, amazing metrics, amazing numbers, amazing credentials, right? Like we can be blown away. In our brain, we have rules for this, right? Like in our brain, we might see someone who is really awkward but smart and go, well, makes sense. We recognize that. So fine, blow them away with your insane competence. Or insane warmth, vulnerability, a share, an emotional story that's surprising. We also have a rule for this. If someone made a bad first impression, but then they share an incredibly vulnerable story about themselves, we're like, oh, okay, makes sense. So be the exception to the rule.

38:26We do have exceptions to the rule. They're more rare, but you have to make sure that, okay, if you did not nail that first six seconds or worse, you had a bad interaction on a video call or a phone call first, be the exception to the rule with blow them out with competence, show up and know your stuff and blow them away with your cred, or blow them away with warmth, raw, honest vulnerability, emotional stories that shock and delight and surprise them. How important is it for you to be likable versus being yourself to get what you want? I think you always have to be yourself. I think it's impossible to be likable inauthentically for a very long time.

39:05You can do it for a little. You might be able to trick someone in a real, maybe to trick someone in a very short meeting, but there's no way that you cannot be yourself and be liked for the long term. First of all, it's exhausting. Have you ever tried to not be yourself to be something that someone wants out of you? It's exhausting, especially if you're an ambivert, like I can't fake it. Like if I'm going to fake it, I'm going to be found out. And I'm going to be like, I can't, this won't last. So I think it's always more important to be yourself. And if that means people don't like you for it, they're not your people.

39:37Right? Like they're not your people. What will get someone to like you more? Is it body language or is it being a great conversationalist? Being a great conversationalist. So how do you do that? Being a great conversationalist, the mistake that we make is trying to be impressive. Right? So we think, I have to ask really hard-hitting questions. I have to have really impressive, funny stories. And actually that tends to create distance in conversation. Have you ever had this where you're with someone and they're like performing for you? And you're like, this is hilarious, but like, I don't feel a connection.

40:12And so I think that being a great conversationalist is actually finding, I call them like me too moments. Like the more we can be like gluten-free croissants, girl. That's like a moment of connection. Or we can be like, oh, bare feet, thank goodness. Or we can be like, oh my gosh, isn't it so hard to try to adjust yourself to be likable? So I think that it's actually trying to find with someone, what are all the things that we can celebrate together or be vulnerable together or even shared pain points together? Me too moments are where connection happens. And I think that that is the most likable thing you can do.

40:43Whether it's good or bad, you're sharing. That builds bridges. One of my least favorite things that people ask me when I walk in anywhere is, And what do you do? What are those common phrases that people can pull out and be like, I'm going to ask these two or three things instead of what do you do? So we want to pick questions that are still casual, still approachable, but not too deep. So I like a swap. Not how are you. Not what do you do. What do you like to do? Just adding the word like. What do you like to do? Or not what do you do. Working on anything exciting these days. Like even if I didn't know you and didn't know what you did, if I said to you, working on anything exciting these days, you could tell me what you're working on or you could choose something totally different.

41:27I also like a question that I heard that I use all the time is, how's the empire? Because no matter what someone does, their world is their empire. And they will answer that in all kinds of unique and interesting ways. So how's the empire? What do you like to do? Working on anything exciting. And then what about the answer side swaps? Okay, so this takes a little bit of planning. I like to break scripts with how are you. So when somebody asks me how are you, I like to like wake up the conversation a little bit with like a little bit of surprise. So I like to give someone a number. So I might be like, hmm, 3 out of 10 on the scale.

42:01It's only my coffee. And they're like, 3 out of 3. What? 3 out of 10. Like you're just like, wait. And I'm like, what's your number? And like that, it totally changes the game. They usually laugh. That was so flirty. It was so flirty? Yeah. No, flirty would have been like, I'm an 8, girl. That would have been flirty. A three is not flirty. No, the way you said, what's your number? Okay, well, good. I flirt with everyone. That's good. I like it. Okay, so you can answer with a number. I also think you can answer honestly here. Like, yes, honesty. I think we forget that we don't have to be on social scripts.

42:35If someone asks you, how are you? And you're like, good, but busy. But actually you're losing your mind and you're having a really hard day. Like, be honest. I think it's okay to be like, it's been a doozy of a week. Ask me later today. Or you know what? It's been a rough one this morning. My seven-year-old decided not to go to school. Right? Like, I think we can answer honestly, still comfortably. But if you're having a bad day, share you're having a bad day, you can take less than 10 words. If you're having the best day ever, say, you know what? It's a fantastic day. Thanks for asking. Right?

43:13I think we forget that we can be honest with these answers. What do you do is another one. I also don't like this one. I am developing this for my next book. So I have a formula for how I want you to answer that question. I actually think it's the biggest opportunity we have in our career. Every single time you're going to be asked this question thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of times in your lifetime, you should be nailing the answer to this question every time. If you are not nailing the answer to that question, you are missing opportunities. because you never know when someone asking could be your next client, your next hire, your next partner, your next referral.

43:46You don't know who you're speaking to. So you want to make sure that you're nailing it. And it's really important to have a very specific way to answer it in a way that hooks people in but also is truthful. So I'm working on it. You can't reveal what the equation would be. Not yet. Can you give us one thing that we can say when someone asks us what do we do to nail that opportunity and don't let it go to waste? What can people do that feel like they're in that building phase? They don't have their empire yet. Right. What are they saying to communicate something bigger than what it feels like they're doing right now?

44:19Okay. So here is – I hope that you will workshop this logline. I want you to workshop it. And it does take some, like, trial and error, right? This is a very important opportunity that you have. What is the question that you want someone to ask you next? That is actually how you're going to build your elevator pitch. Meaning when you said, I just have a podcast or I have a podcast, what was the question people usually asked you? What's it called? Right. So that doesn't get you anywhere. It's a dead end. Then you can say, oh, it's called Hot, Smart, Rich. Well, what is that? It creates like a very negative no ladder, right?

44:52Like a very like, I don't like conversations that sound like that. Right? Like that's a bad interaction. It's called a no ladder, right? What you want to think is, what do I want to talk about next? What is the question that I want to give their brain to ask? So for example, I like to say, I'm a bestselling author because I want them to ask me, what are your books about? Because that's my favorite topic, right? So what is the question that you want them to ask? And then reverse engineer your answer to that. And by the way, if you're in transition or pivoting, we love this. This is the ultimate hero story.

45:29If you are transitioning, say, you know, by day I'm a blank, but I'm moonlining as a blank. You know, I'm in transition. I've been doing this for 10 years, but I have big dreams too. You can give someone the hero's journey. My favorite kind of elevator pitch answer, my favorite kind of answer is when you tell someone your hero's journey. A hero's journey is, I had a challenge or a problem, or I was started somewhere. I learned something. I did something. I tried something and I'm either going here or I already am here. Right? Like my logline, I'm a recovering awkward person. I write books. People see right there my hero's journey.

46:08Or I'm a recovering awkward person and I write books for smart awkward people. People can literally see the journey that I took. Right? Like I started not knowing how to connect and communicate with people. I had to learn how to do it now. I communicate with it. So what is the hero's journey that you can give someone else so they want to buy into it? We create raving fans or amazing friends when they are on the journey with you. And so I think a mistake that we make is we feel like it has to be perfectly polished. I don't like the log lines that create no questions. The answers to create no questions is like, I'm a fifth grade teacher.

46:40What is the other person going to do with that? Or I'm just in marketing. What is someone going to do with that? Oh, I'm starting a nonprofit. profit. You have to give them the question that you want them to ask and also take them on the journey with you. There is no better feeling as an entrepreneur than hearing that sound. Am I right? Especially when you're in the depths of setting up and building a business. Shopify's Cha-Ching is a reminder that you're on the same entrepreneurial journey as everyone else who's building something. And when you're in the early phase of starting something, having a platform with tools that help you streamline any part of your setup and backend is a huge unlock.

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48:40And quite a lot more. To download the Built app and join the membership for where you live, head to joinbuilt.com slash HSR. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T dot com slash HSR. What are the other things that separates highly successful people from a communication, leadership, body language perspective than people that will just never get there? I've spent the last two decades studying highly charismatic people. And highly charismatic people are typically very successful people. So that's the first thing to realize is that highly successful people invest in their communication. Highly successful people know that whatever their technical skill is, whether that's building a business or selling a product, if they are very, very good with people, that's going to help whatever their project is.

49:24Being a very effective communicator is already a baseline for success. The second thing is I think that highly successful people are ruthless about what they are good at and what they are bad at. And I've noticed that highly effective people are constantly labeling themselves out loud and saying what they are very good at. And this sort of weirdly comes back to them. It serves them. So they'll say things like even in the boardroom, like I'll hear people say, you know, I'm a wizard with spreadsheets, so I figured out. Or I am so analytical, that is my superpower. Or I am super organized, I'm your girl for.

50:00Like self-labeling is actually a very powerful thing that I don't think enough people do. And highly successful people are very good at this. They're almost giving other people the language they want people to use for them. So I would ask yourself, what do you wish people were saying about you? And I kind of asked you that earlier. I think everyone should know their answer to this question and you should be using it in your own language, right? What do you want people, your boss, your colleague, an investor to say about you behind your back? What's the best thing they could say about you? Are you saying that about yourself in your bio, in your elevator pitch, when you're talking about yourself?

50:35The kind of problems and solutions that we publicly claim, like saying like I love to solve this problem or I want to take on this project, shapes how people think and feel about you. And I think successful people are very good at naming their power and naming the problem and then claiming it. One of the questions I actually get asked the most from this community is women that have relocated themselves to a new city. They're in their 20s. They're in their 30s. They don't have the family commitments yet. They don't have their kids. They're actually trying to make friends. Yes. And they're met with women like me who have a social network, who can barely keep it together.

51:09I can barely respond to my friends. I actually don't have time for new friends. Right. And so a lot of the questions that I'm getting is, well, how do I make friends when I'm going into an environment and people already have their circles, they already have their connections? How are those women getting a community together, finding their people? Okay, I could talk about this all day because I love it and I think it's so important. So first, just mechanically, I just want to talk about a logistics thing. Psychologically, you're better off front-loading hours. What I mean by this is a coffee every three weeks for one hour, it will not build a long friendship.

51:44Even if you put in 200 hours of that, it's the same thing and it's too spread out. If you think someone could be a potential friend, you are actually better off hanging out a lot in the first two weeks and front-loading as many hours as possible. What I mean is this is very counter and you're welcome to send in this episode and be like, look, Vanessa said, I really like you. We got to front-load our hours. If you like someone at like you meet them at a yoga class and you're like, hey, do you want to grab lunch later? And that goes well. Do you want to go on a hike tomorrow morning? if that goes well.

52:13You know, I was thinking of like driving up to LA this weekend to do this vintage shop. Do you want to come with me? Like get the reps in quick because one, you will learn if they're your person faster. I don't know about you, but I've had sometimes very slow burn starts of friendships where it takes me months to figure out like we're actually not that similar or we're not that aligned. I would much rather front stack to figure out are we doing this thing? Like do we have a good match? It's just like dating, right? Like the more you do in varied contexts, the more you're going to figure out, do you have the same core values?

52:44Do you have fun together? Can they ride with you? Like in Austin, I would sometimes take women to this really, really hippy dippy like cafeteria just to see how they would do with me with it because it was like really weird. And like the women who could laugh at it with me, I was like, we're going to get along really well. So like what are the contexts that you could take them to to be like, hey, are we on the same vibe? Like are we on the same page? And front load, front stack. Don't spread it out over two or three weeks. Try to do as many as possible early. Just logistically speaking, that actually works better to build friendships quickly.

53:14Next, I think the only way to fit into people's busy schedules, so if you're coming to a new place, which has literally just happened to me, so I'm in this with you, it's very hard to create new time blocks. It's hard to look at a busy person and be like, we should hang out, because you're like, I don't got time to hang out. When would we even do it? No. You want to ask, where are you already hanging out? When do you always go to that yoga class? When are you always doing that thing? Do you have any weekly or monthly traditions that you do? Hey, like, do you do a big grocery shop and food prep on Sunday?

53:48Great. Let's do it together. What are people already doing in their schedule and how can you lock into that? So I love women who are on the same workout routine as me. I do walk-in talks. So walk-in talks are like, you know, whenever I'm walking, I walk at almost the same time every day. And I have friends that also walk at that same time. Super easy. Either I call them or they're with me. So are there ways you can fit into their schedule that already exists? And then lastly, this is weird, but I think you want to look for other new people too. Wherever you moved, there are other people who just moved too.

54:20Now, they might not be your exact same age. They might not be your exact same interests, but they're also open social schedule. So go where new people go when they get to a city. Ask other people you know who are really busy. Do you know anyone else who's recently moved here, like in the last few months or a year? You are going to be a social savior for them, right? Like you also can be the greeter of new people coming to the city if you make it known that that's what you're really good at. I got that same advice when I was the only friend in my friend group that was going to be single after calling off an engagement.

54:54And my friend said to me, I'm going to give you some really tough love. You need to meet single friends because all of your friends are in relationships. They're all taken and you're going to constantly be left out of double dates. You're going to constantly feel bad about yourself versus enjoying being single because you're around people that love to be single. One of the things that I had to ask, because it really did come up for me because I often in dating relationships would find myself being love bombed by this, what you're talking about, very, very fast, very front loaded relationships where it was like, oh my God, I'm spending every single day with you.

55:29None of those ended up working out. So is there different data and science between friendship front-loading and dating front-loading? Very much. Very much. Because the connection that you have romantically is physically based and physical lust has a very different chemical feeling than the slow build of a non-sexual relationship. Right? So if you're front-loading with a physical relationship, you're overwhelmed with all the chemicals that come with the kisses and the touching and the oxytocin and the hand-holding. that physicality is going to completely change your body where you're ignoring the red flags.

56:03Right? Like front-loading and love-bombing in a relationship, you're like, oh my gosh, this feels so good or doesn't. And so you get distracted by it. With a friendship, you're front-loading quality time. There's no kissing. There's no hand-holding. Not usually, right? Not a friendship. So you're front-loading depth of conversation. If you're going on a three-hour hike with someone, or it's the week after you met and decide to do a little road trip, you have hours of, do we have the same taste in music? What do we talk about when it's silent? Do we both feel the silence in the same way? We have to stop on the side of the road.

56:38Where do you pick? Where's your go-to? Do we snack the same? You are very quickly knocking down all those hurdles that can just be kind of weird things in a relationship. They're not friendship killers, but they very quickly allow you to have Me Too moments. You love that place? I love that place too. This playlist is incredible. Oh my gosh, can we actually stop at this winery? I've been dying to try it. Yes, I've been dying to try it too. Like it gives you more opportunities for those Me Too moments, which are – it's very different than a physical relationship. I think we also learn a lot about friendships from these parasocial relationships of friendships that we've seen.

57:14So what I've – I don't really watch reality TV, but what I've identified is there's shows built on friendship, right? Summer House. Even some of like the – Real Housewives. Real Housewives. Friendships. Have you heard of this new group on social media called The Four and the Five? They have blown up. It's these four girls that live in the five boroughs of New York City. And people are obsessed with the dynamic of these female friendships. And it reminds me, not because the characters are replicating sex in the city, but it reminds me of that infatuation of like watching friendships on screen and almost vicariously living through these types of dynamics.

57:54Obviously, you haven't heard of the four and the five, but I guess like the making of a cake of an amazing friendship group. Yeah. What does that look like? I've had in my life a couple of amazing friendship groups, but then someone moves or I move. I've moved a lot. Okay. So what I think makes an exceptional friendship group is actually diversity of personality. I think this is the same thing with like Sex and the City. It's the same thing with any of those friends. What do you like about watching those friendships? What make those friendships work? is that everyone has their own like shtick.

58:25They have their own thing. I think a mistake that we can make is we try to make friends exactly like us. We can have similar interests, but if everyone's an extrovert, no one gets a word in, right? If everyone is hyper-organized, then everyone's gonna compete with their addendas and their plans. I actually think it's great in a personality group to have like everyone's unique and diverse personality. So like you have the extrovert of the group. They're always the one who are rainmaking for you. You have the introvert of the group. They're the deep listener who you call when you just need to like vent.

58:53You have the person who's the planner. That's always me, right? Like you have like the planner who's hyper-organized and loves to take charge. You have the person who's the spontaneous one. We don't need a plan, but let's be spontaneous. And they keep you fun, right? Like diversity of personality in a friend group is so under-talked about and such a great thing. And we actually want to honor different personality types because we need all types of personality types to succeed. Is there something that we have not talked about today that you would be sad to leave your first appearance of Hot, Smart, Rich on because you'll be back without talking about?

59:24Yes. I want to talk about dream jobs. So the question that I get the most often, I feel so interesting to hear the questions you get. The question I get the most often is, you have a really cool job. Did you create it? How do I create my dream job? And I think that people do the wrong thing where they follow their passion. Stop following your passion. passion, it will not lead to your dream job. In fact, if you try to monetize your passion, the passion will go away. Money and passion, they just do not stick. Anytime someone monetizes something they love, I'm like, oh, sad death for that passion.

59:57Because after a while, it's really hard to separate that. Also, we tend to burn out on our passion. Passion comes in a burst. It comes all at once. And then over time, when you're stuck doing it for 10, 20 years, it can get really old. So for example, I've been doing this job for 20 years. I've been posting on YouTube since 2007, a video a week since 2007. If I followed my passion, I would be burnt out. I am very interested in what I do and there's a matrix here. So I just created this framework for literally my friend who is trying to recreate her dream job. She's been in the same job for a long time and she's like, I'm successful, but unhappy.

1:00:34I'm successful, but I'm exhausted. I'm successful, but something is missing. And so I wanted to break this down for your audience. I'm super excited. Okay, so the very first ingredient, the very first circle that I want you to think about is actually mastery or capability. So sorry, my handwriting is like terrible. I also type all the time now, so I forget. So the very first thing you have to think about is what are you exceptionally good at? This is not what you love. This is not your passion. This is not what you love doing. These are the tasks that when you do them, time disappears. These are the tasks that you just do better than other people.

1:01:13These are the tasks that when you do them, you hit flow. I want you to try to make a list of all of the tasks, like down to the smallest, that make you feel capable, super capable, that you are better at than most people. That is actually the first ingredient of a dream job. The second ingredient is the one that we think about the most. Next is salary. Yes, we have to make enough money to pay our bills. The question that I always ask with salary is, what is the amount of money that will make you feel like you've made it? What is the track that will make you feel like I've earned it, I'm where I'm supposed to be?

1:01:48Could the salary hit that track? So you want to feel extremely good at what you do, but you also want to make sure that you make enough money to cover your bills. And there's a track to feeling that you've made it. Like some of my friends who have jobs that don't have a track, I ask them, would you ever feel like you've made it in this job? And they're like, I'm never going to be able to afford the vacation that I want. And I know that it's going to be almost impossible for them. Like, for example, some of my friends are teachers. And I'm like, I love it. You have super mastery. They have a couple of other circles.

1:02:14They're like, I know I will never make enough money to be able to have the life I want. I'm like, something is missing there. You have to add something to that. Okay, so mastery salary. The next one is social. I'm sure you're not surprised. You can feel incredible at your job. You can make the most amount of money. If you hate your boss, you're not happy. You can be very masterful. You can have the most money. If you hate your coworkers, you're not happy. Investing in work relationships that help you be your best self. They do not have to be your best friends. You don't have to have a work bestie.

1:02:49But for the people you interact with on a daily basis, specifically the five, the five people you interact with on a daily basis, do they help you be your best self? If the answer is yes, you've mastered social. You can be at ease around them, and that's the most important measure. And the last one, the most important one, is meaning. And this is the one that we often forget. These are the jobs that I think I see the most burnout in. You feel really capable. You're freaking great at your job. You make a great amount of money. Your team is awesome, but it's meaningless. You're not helping anyone.

1:03:22You don't feel like you have a purpose. You feel like all those things you're masterful at, what is it even for? finding meaning in your tasks. And by the way, that could be in service of the team. I think that a lot of people, it's great if you can help people, but even having meaning around supporting your team or making enough money so you're creating payroll. Like for example, at my company, it is really important to me that we have an incredible team that's paid well, that I can really helpfully support my payroll. That's an important part of my meaning. Yes, I want to help people publicly, but having a team that feels like they can pay their bills and have a living wage is very important.

1:03:55So what is your meaning? These, I think, are the four circles that I wish we talked about more. I think they create this sort of like middle thing, if I can be really corny. I think that is actually where our heart comes in our dream jobs. It's interesting, too, because I'm a lot of really successful people that they have the mastery, the salary, the social, but because they lack meaning, it's that saying of like some of the richest people that you know are the most unhappy people. Yes. Yes. Do you see that? Yes. So one of my dear friends sold a business for an ungodly amount of money, like so much money, super good at his job, made a huge sellout, you know, huge, sold his business, loves his team, has a great group of friends.

1:04:33And he said, I have to start over. I said, why? He's like, I feel like I have no legacy. I was like, but you sold this incredible business. He's like, yeah, it's a software company. Like it's not helping anyone. He feels like he hasn't made it even after all that, because he feels like he has no legacy. He has not contributed to the world, he has no meaning. So he's starting from scratch with a new business with this first because he went too long without adding the meaning back into his job, without adding the meaning back into his day-to-day. We didn't really get the chance to talk about money a ton today, but I am interested just on that point as like people are thinking about their dream job and we are so surrounded in culture now of money.

1:05:06And I'm interested in your thought on does money buy happiness? I think a certain amount of money buys happiness because we are comfort creatures. We have to have a certain amount of comfort. And especially now, our bar for comfort is very high. And this is the problem that I don't know how to solve and I worry for all of us, which is to have a good night's sleep, we need to have a perfect mattress and a thing that measures our sleep and our melatonin and our magnesium. Oh yeah, we should sauna beforehand. We should have great earplugs and we should have the great eye masks. Even just the things that are required for a free thing we do, which is sleep, now the cost to make that optimize is incredibly high.

1:05:51And that's in every area from our skin to our sleep, to our nails, to our vitamins. And so I worry that we feel that money has to buy happiness because to be able to do the basic things, now the cost to entry for that is so high. And I don't know what we're going to do about that. We'll have to have you come back on to talk about it. Vanessa Van Edwards, let's do some fun rapid fire. Okay. What is the last thing you put on your credit card? Last thing was I did a splurge at Nordstrom Rack. It really makes more than Nordstrom Rack. Yeah. This was today or yesterday? Yes, today with my sister. Okay.

1:06:26What is a dream purchase you want? I really want a really expensive massage chair. I just love massages. I feel like if I got a really – those 10 grand one, yes, I want one of those so bad. Sponsor me. I do all my videos in a massage chair from now on. I want one of those so bad. You can only pick one to meet a friend in real life for the rest of your life. Are you going to a workout class or a coffee shop? Workout class. Oh my gosh, I don't believe in coffees with friends. Hot take. Coffees with friends are so much conversational work. If you're doing something, it's so much easier to talk and fit in.

1:07:03Workout class for sure. Okay. What tells you more about a person, eye contact or body language? Body language. Anyone can make eye contact. Like, liars are taught this too. Eye contact doesn't tell you much, but body language tells you a lot. You can only work for one person for the rest of your life. Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg? Elon Musk. For sure. For sure. I feel like I would like vibe with him actually. I love like Awkward Smart. Yes, we would vibe. What is the reality TV show that has the best body language between the cast? Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. Oh, our HMH is so good. Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, they have so many stakes.

1:07:50They care so much. And so the body language is just like divine. Who's your favorite character? I mean, Kyle Richards. She's so epic. Oh, my God. You can only communicate using body language or hand gestures for the rest of your life. Hand gestures. I love a hand gesture. I mean, I could tell you everything with my hands. Yeah, for sure. Vanessa Van Edwards, what is one HSR love note that you would tell yourself for the rest of your life? Only one. Does it count if I can say you're exactly where you're meant to be? Like, we're exactly where we're meant to be. You're exactly where you're meant to be.

1:08:22Love that. And if you had to title the season of your life, what would it be called? It's not aggressively helpful because that's my mantra for life. So the season of life. Hustle, girl. Hustle. Love that. Vanessa Van Edwards, where can people find you and how can HSR help you? Oh, I'm Vanessa Van Edwards on all the networks, V Van Edwards. And then I write a newsletter. I write it. Me. I hand-create this newsletter. It's one social tip every week at scienceofpeople.com. It's like my favorite social hack of the week and I do a conversation starter every week. Thank you so much for coming on. We're going to have to have you back.

1:08:57Thank you. Thank you.

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