Courtney Reum On The Truth about Becoming a $1.5B Venture Capitalist and 45-Year-Old Professional Athlete

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1:03In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it.

1:11We're rolling. Hi, I'm here. Okay. Many of you may recognize Courtney Ream from being on the Skinny Confidential twice now, but buckle up because as much as we're going to talk about business and investing today, we're also going to be introducing my boyfriend and covering his relationship with money, family, politics, his passion, football, his pop culture's most controversial takes, and our relationship. So Courtney Ream, are you ready to get hot, smart, rich? Yeah, that's a lot. I'm excited for it. I actually don't think we're going to get through everything today, but people are very interested in you.

1:46They're very interested in us. So we'll get through what we can and then maybe you'll come on for another episode. I would love to run it back. Okay. I am very nervous, excited, which you can obviously tell you're laughing already. Yes. But that's the emotion I felt the most since I met you. Do you want to take it away with how we met? Okay. I think I will hearken back to August 2023. A mutual friend of ours, are we naming him? Yeah. His name's Patrick. He said, I have someone I want to introduce you to. And I said, okay, great. and then he was like well she's still engaged but like don't don't worry about that don't get caught up in that and i was like uh okay well whatever and uh then i didn't hear much about it until january 2024 where he put us on text we started to text very much in earnest wouldn't really say there was a whole lot of flow or momentum uh i was getting more confirmation numbers for like restaurant reservations or like, um, you know, like dental appointments and I was getting responses from you, but we persisted a little bit and, um, we ended up meeting up in March, middle of March at a borderline work event, natural products expo, like the super bowl of whole foods kind of arrow on type brands.

3:12It was a really, your sister was there, so she got to witness it. Yeah. and uh it was just a very effortless easy chat but i was also you know trade shows you're walking the floor doing a thousand things at once you're not you're exhausted you're not in the right head space i was like a month away from leaving the country for a while which i know we're going to talk about so we saw each other next week we were supposed to play tennis and have sushi and probably wise move by your part you kind of all of a sudden either had an injury or some kind No, I was like, I couldn't book the court. It filled up already.

3:45Yeah, you couldn't book the court. I was like, that's so weird. I have access to the same courts, and it looks like they're wide open. But okay, you couldn't do tennis and sushi, so we just opted for sushi. Did you ever think that you would meet your person at a work event? No, definitely not. I used to go to that trade show and be like, oh, yeah, I'll meet this earth-friendly, beautiful, whatever, whatever. And 15 years ago, I never met one person I was interested in. Just like I went through a phase where I did triathlons. I was like, I'll meet someone here who's like a triathlete, and we'll have all this in common.

4:12never once met someone there. So you are in this period of your life where you've achieved so much, you focus so much on your career. And I think I got so many people inbound being like, I know Courtney through the skinny confidential. And you always said like your number one to four priorities were not having a relationship. That was like a true partnership. What do you think shifted since the time that you've met me? Or was that like going back last year? Was that always something at the forefront of your mind where it's like, now is the time I want to really try to find somebody. I think I learned that whatever's fourth and fifth on my priority list, I haven't gotten to some of those big things for, I guess, now decades.

4:49But what's one, two, and three on my list, I tend to be really good at. And so I was like, I won't really say relationship. I mean, I've dated and had girlfriends, but I mean, you know, the relationship or partnership with a capital P kind of took a backseat because I was working 100 hours a week at Goldman Sachs. And then I was living outside the country and then I was starting my first businesses and it wasn't the intentional plan. But I think as time goes on, you realize it's it's definitely, of course, partly the other person and having a real partner. And then it's partly yourself. And there was a lot of myself stuff that I had to get more comfortable with.

5:25So it really took probably until my my dad passed away, which was six, six and a half years ago for me to, I think, just kind of get shook and woken up. And by the way, the backdrop is my parents who are married for 50 years, my grandparents who are married 59 on one side, 66 on the other. All of them gave me the advice you think would be opposite once you hear that, which is take your time. No rush. We got lucky. It's a different time. So you're always like, oh, yeah, tomorrow, tomorrow. That's definitely on my list for tomorrow. It's definitely the five year plan, not the one year plan. And then something like, you know, your dad and best friend and oldest friend passing away really suddenly makes you go, wow, tomorrow is not so guaranteed as I thought.

6:04I better make sure I'm, you know, as Clayton Christensen says, we all have this one precious life. What do you intend to do with it? I think that kind of shook up the order of operations. Yeah. I think for me, it's like very different, but similar in a lot of ways. Like I obviously rushed into situations that didn't end up working out for me, which I think when you're a woman and you're getting into like your late twenties, your early thirties, you're like, I figured my life would look so different than it does right now. And I think what was so different about you and me from the beginning is like I knew exactly who I was as a whole person before I was like looking to make somebody else my other half.

6:38And I think for you, you were always so taken aback by how forward I was and how communicative I was and like how I told you how I felt from the beginning. And I think, you know, you're searching around looking for somebody and then it's hard to describe what it feels like when you do find that person or if you find a partner. What has like been the biggest feeling having now been with somebody that you think of as a partner versus just a relationship. My name was floated when you still had a fiance. So obviously you weren't entertaining. Let me, let me, let me give my backstory to like the first time we met.

7:11So I knew that I wanted to call off my engagement. I wanted to tell somebody, but I didn't want to tell like a close friend or a best friend or a family member in case I decided to change my mind. So when I went to New York last August, I had been living in a hotel in LA, knew that this was happening, but was so scared just to like make it real because then your life sets in and you're like, I don't have a place to live. I don't know where I'm going to go. So I'm sitting on Patrick's couch. He was also a VC. We've done some work together, but he's also just a great guy. And I knew he wouldn't judge me.

7:39And I just blurted out, I think I'm going to call off my engagement. And he doesn't even answer me. He just starts immediately texting on his phone. And I'm like, Patrick, are you like going around and telling people? And he's like, no, I actually have the perfect guy for you. And I'm sending him your TikTok videos. and I was like, please do not do that. I was so upset at him. I think I left close after because I was like, how could you do that? My parents don't even know what if this is like, I've never dated someone who's on TikTok. I was like, and how old is she? But okay, keep going. Too old.

8:08Apparently I'm just kidding. I didn't understand the context that you were doing something so unique with TikTok. Yeah. We'll talk about that later. But I remember then I went into full hibernation mode, like heal my trauma, move to Calabasas, rent this horse, just like be one with myself and not be distracted by my ego. And that's my biggest advice for anybody that's listening that feels like they're in this stuck place is like, it's so easy to feed your ego going on dating apps, like trying to get people to set you up with people. And you don't actually go through things. You just try to get through it.

8:38And I always tell people whether it's like a family member passing away or a relationship that's ending or a job or whatever you're mourning the next phase of your life, you have to go through it in order to get through it actually. and so Patrick for months had tried to set me up with you and I was always just like I'm not dating anybody and I really don't want to even be distracted with talking January 1st that's around I was like I'm downloading Raya I'm downloading hinge I'm going back out there I feel ready like I feel prepared to make better decisions now and when Patrick then eventually told me who you were once I was healed I immediately was like absolutely not like you were just the archetype of the person that I knew could really hurt me because you were good enough for me.

9:19And so when you float, when your name was floated to me, I was just like still not ready to be in a relationship that could really, I feel like turn my world upside down if it ended. And so I remember I was just like kind of blowing you off and being very, very hard to text back. Like I remember saying, you'll have to double text me if you want to get ahold of me or something like that, which I don't know how you We should actually pull up the actual chain where she's replying once that you're replying once every three days. Oh, sorry. I'm really bad on texts. I was like, well, how do people get a hold of you?

9:53And they're like, you're like, they usually text me twice or they call. And I'm like, I think I just wrote back noted. You did write back noted. A lot of effort for someone I've never even met. Even in a relatively short time, we've had an interesting thing where you didn't want to meet me at first. then I kind of gave up on meeting you based on not getting much feedback shall we say and you didn't even want you even saw me at an event after we had not been texting but that's the moment that I knew that I said to my friend I had run away from you physically at freeze the art show and then later that night at the Sotheby's event with Damien Hirst I remember seeing you with this woman and you looked so friendly and so nice and so not what I had pictured in my head I make up stories and we'll get into my anxiety later and how you're so good at dealing with that.

10:40But I made up a story about you in my head about what you're known for. And I think this is why I'm so excited to be in your life now to get to tell a different side of your story because you're known as like Courtney Ream, VC. Your VC was just noted as like the number four in the US, number 14 in the world. You have how much money? Ascent Center Management, 2 billion? You have 12 unicorns. You're a best-selling author. You're a professional football player. You're a philanthropist. You have this like incredible life, but deep down you're so much more than that. And when I saw you at that art show, I don't know what clicked, but I remember saying to my best friend, if he texts me again, I'm going to respond and I'm going to like make it so that I can put myself in a situation where we go on a date.

11:23So I was a little difficult to get to know. And then I will say the minute I met you at the VC kind of like Whole Foods conference, I knew within 30 minutes. Katie I'm sorry I have to tell this part of the story but Courtney walks in I barely almost didn't happen right yeah there's a big line outside like it was a club in LA and I was like I wasn't I you said you put me down for this event that I wasn't invited to I didn't know about it because the events are kind of funny yeah and I walked up with a friend of mine uh Eric Ryan who's a great founder he started brands like Method and Ollie yeah and um we both walk up and the girl's like I don't see your name there's a big line we're at capacity I was like I'm tired anyways and someone who I still don't even remember who it was says from the line these guys would started more brands than anyone with this whole thing you should probably let the two of them in and she just looks at the girl and goes okay go in so that almost didn't even happen well and it also didn't almost happen on my side because we were so exhausted from the full day that I said to my sister I really don't want to go to this event like I doubt this guy will even go and I I don't even know if I'm going to like him.

12:25So like, we should just not go. And Katie's like, Maggie, you're going. She had this feeling about you from the beginning. So then we're there. I'm socializing. My sister comes to me and she's like, when he comes, please don't leave me. I get a little social anxiety. Sorry, Katie, I have to share that. And she's like, please don't leave me. And my exact words were, I am not going to leave you. I don't even think I'm going to like this guy. You walk in and I swear from the minute I like caught your eye, I was like, there's something so different about him and you walk in with Eric and thank God Eric Ryan had just started a jewelry brand and my sister was formerly the head of finance at Majuri for five years and he found out that that's what she did and they just got encapsulated into a conversation he's a very charming guy so he's just easy to talk to yeah and I remember going to Katie okay bye Katie see you later and I just like 30 minutes of talking I just knew I knew you were different I I knew you were like my person.

13:23And I think that's where the roles really switched. And I was the one that was very much like into it, very transparent. But I will say the move for somebody with anxiety that I think why we're sitting in this chair today. And I tell every single guy to do this. If they really like a girl, what you did every single time we left each other was you would ask me to pull out my phone, pull out my calendar, and you would book a date in my calendar for the next week every single time we finished a date. So you did it at the conference where you were like, you're the busiest person ever. I can't get ahold of you.

13:57And that's saying a lot coming from me. When are you free next week? And we made a date right then. And not just with my anxiety, I never questioned us. I never had to go to my friends and be like, what is his text message mean? Does he like me? Should I text him first? And I was able to be myself throughout the whole thing where I would like my personality to, you know, is like, I'll say thank you after a date. I'm super just like grateful for everything that we've done. But I would have second guessed that being like, is that going to come on too strong? Or is he going to think that that's a lot?

14:25And now what do you think? Am I a lot? Yes, as we say, you are definitely a lot. But I really love all of your lot. And it's well worth it. But it's a lot. And remember when we watched that show, what's it called? Nobody Wants This. And there's that scene where I was like, you need to watch this scene. Because my whole life, I think this is where it's actually interesting for a lot of women. We're in this like dating crisis. because when you love your life and you're full on and you have a career and you have friends and you have your health and wellness and you have this life where it's like big and full, it's really hard to find somebody who can not only match that, but like celebrate it.

15:00And in my previous relationships, I've been with people who see my light and try to dim it because they're worried for whatever reason that it makes them less than or I'm going to leave them. And it's actually a self-fulfilling prophecy because then I do feel like I'm not getting somebody to shine my light bigger and I remember when that scene came on and I had watched the first few episodes without you at the beginning I was like you need to watch this scene where she's turning around and she's like I'm afraid that you're gonna think that I'm a lot and that like you're one day gonna leave me and I remember you literally after that scene turned to me and you were like you're the same way like you are a lot but I love your allotness and I honestly think that's another reason why we're sitting here today yeah it's been interesting because I think I've never been in a relationship where at first maybe let's just use the word chase like I was kind of trying to get you to come out with me then you were really interested so I pulled back was doing other things getting ready to leave town then it kind of turned when we met I of course wasn't not interested but I think my head was just other places and everything else so you did a good job of I made plans because I obviously saw something there but then you kind of were very quick to like point out things that I probably wasn't even focused on or noticing at the time.

16:11And we were kind of staggering for a while. And now it's got no place where it's caught up and run the same, the same page. It still feels like in my heart, like it's still the same nervous energy that you give me every single day. And I think I was just gone for three days and you came back and you were so nervous yesterday. But I think it's also, this is one of the things that we talk about a lot as women is like masculine and feminine energy. And what's so interesting for you is like, you don't really see the side of me that's very masculine in the way that I do work. It's like even my sister this morning, she's like, the way you speak to me, Maggie, is like really insulting.

16:44Like I'm doing my best here. And like, you know, I had to like take a step back and be like, I'm really sorry. Like, I don't mean to take things out on you. I'm super direct and very like with work. I know what I'm doing most of the day, especially with people around me that I can just like execute and go and like make hard decisions. But with you, you know, I was so tired of doing that in my personal life. Like I was so tired of leading every single thing. And you've put me into this place of like feminine energy in a way where I still feel like I'm being 1000 % myself, but I now have this like masculine force in my life where it doesn't feel like I have to wear armor every single day.

17:22And I think that's something I do work on in therapy all the time is like really taking off the armor because it's like you and I are a team and we're like trying to do everything together. But I remember when, you know, my, my little fantasy, cause I've never been obsessed with celebrities. I've always been obsessed with like CEOs is I would be like, I really want like a Matt Kaplan to my Alex Cooper or a Jens Gred to my Emma Greed. I don't even know how to say the last name, but that, when I first brought it up to you, you were like, that's not at all what I pictured nor wanted. And like, I think especially cause Matt Kaplan went to my alma mater, Columbia, shout out to Columbia.

17:57And there's like younger than me and a few other things. I think it's just like the dynamic, you know, the idea. Why was that something you didn't think that you wanted? And what are your thoughts on it now? I love my life. I hope everyone listening loves their life, each to their, you know, each of their own. We're all only have one life. And I love my life so much that there's not much that could be better. And the main thing, really, the only thing that could be better is like having real partnership and like a lasting love and it's probably the one decision left in my life that if I get it right what's already an amazing life becomes even better and if you get it wrong life gets life gets complicated and you know certain things that I was focused on 10 15 20 years ago money or material things or what we call for Hoffman process the do be have cycle like I'm kind of finally past all that which is great I had to kind of do it to get past it but I think that I'd like to think I'm just being selective, but I'm sure there's something between picky, selective, and overly precious.

18:56And so, sometimes you don't know what it is until you've actually experienced it. And I've started to experience it with you. I love you. Laugh's awkwardly. You touched on something that I really want to talk about, which is your relationship with money, because it is one of the things I think that is one of the reasons I'm so drawn to you because I grew up in a very privileged situation, but I also had my first job at 14. And like my parents never made it an option for us to move home after college. It was like, you're out. You're what my dad would say, like off the payroll, do everything yourself.

19:29And so I think let's maybe give the listeners like a little bit of background. I've mentioned you have 12 unicorns, you run a$2 billion or assets under management venture capital fund. But can you just give a little bit of like a background to your professional career. And then I really want to like springboard that into how you think and treat money. It's so funny because I think one of the biggest shifts in my life, again, after, after my dad passed away was there's an author I loved called David Brooks. One of his books is called the road to character. He, he, um, his dichotomy is more along the lines of most of us spend a lot of our life chasing, uh, resume virtues.

20:08And I definitely had, you know, I went to two Ivy League schools. I worked at Goldman Sachs. I did this. I did that. You're like who I make that up on TikTok. Right. So those are resume virtues and those have served me well. And I am proud of those, but that's really different than a eulogy virtue. And so he says resume virtues versus eulogy virtues and eulogy virtues are, yeah, it's great to be a bestselling author, but is that really going to be brought up at your eulogy or whatever life coaching exercise or who's coming your 80th birthday party and who's around there? What are they going to be like?

20:37remember when 50 years ago you were a best-selling author? I'm like, actually, I don't remember that. I think it's worth mentioning that because it informs everyone's relationship with something like money. I grew up in Chicago. Midwest is very different than L.A. And I love L.A., but thank goodness I didn't grow up here. Thank goodness I didn't go to Beverly Hills High School or whatever else. So I started at Goldman Sachs, did investment banking, worked up things. But wait, you totally missed the part where you were actually a model. yeah weirdly that's not on my LinkedIn or my work resume very briefly but sure I think it's important because I think it shows again that like you are not the archetype of the person that's like you knew you always wanted to be invest in banking like you are an entrepreneur by heart and I think yeah a lot of people think model like oh maybe it's like egotistical driven but I actually think it shows you were always thinking differently like graduating Columbia with honors like soccer player like a lot of people wouldn't think you're going to go and be a model which you wanted to take off a year right to be able to do that which you weren't allowed to do well it happened because I graduated um I graduated right after well sorry I graduated and was about to start right before 9-11 so that kind of changed a lot of things and so the world was in a state of chaos the economy wasn't good it's not a good look on wall street to say oh we're not hiring people that we already had given offers to and moved to the city and change your career so they said who wants to uh defer a year you'll get like I don't know maybe it was like a third of your base salary enough to live off at the time I was like oh yeah right here right here yeah front of the line I was like cutting everyone so it was great and so the modeling kind of came about as like a fun little tryst um knowing that I had this job in a in a year so I don't think when you say much more about that okay moving on you know I like to look at the comp card.

22:27Yeah. The comp card is available in the deep, deep archive somewhere. But yeah. Okay. Keep going. So you, then you went to Goldman. So I went to Goldman to investment banking, um, worked on some big deals like Procter and Gamble Gillette's merger, worked on some more entrepreneurial things by Goldman standards. Um, helped take Under Armour public, worked on vitamin water's first deal. And you just see a guy like Kevin Plank, the founder of Under Armour and go, wow, he's just like a gritty guy with a good idea. and if he can do it. I don't know if I can, but we're about to find out. So I think people like that and other people like Kevin inspired me a lot more than I knew.

23:03My brother and I started a handful of companies before we got to M13, tech stuff, consumer brands. Took a little time off to write this book. We were on a, what I'll call, low-budget Shark Tank competitor on CBS. And then I think we were trying to figure out our next act and we said, well, we seem to be pretty good at investing. We seem to be pretty good at starting stuff. Why not try to find a way to have our cake and eat it too and do both under one roof? So we started M13, kind of originally as a consumer tech holding company whereby we invest, which is definitely our main activity, but we also have a, we call it our launch pad, but something like a twist on an incubator or studio where we start our own brands and partner with other people.

23:44So we've started, I think now, something like 15 brands in the last five years. lucky enough to have relationships with people like Tony Robbins so we started a longevity company with him called Life Force some other people yeah did some corporate JVs and so it's really nice because a lot of days I get to feel very entrepreneurial and then some days I feel like an investor and a lot of days I feel like some combo and if we have any superpowers I would say one thing is that we're really good at seamlessly shifting gears between things we we got here by saying yes yes yes and probably juggling and taking on too much and I think the way we'll get to the next level is by simplifying and pruning and being more defined by what we say no to and what we say yes to but that's my own life coaching things I need to work through but I think we're good at shifting gears seamlessly doing both and I think we're also really good at we used to call it the Hollywood production model venture where you kind of see the dots connect the dots put the pieces together the same way people to get come together for a movie and go we got the best director we have this actor this actress we come together for a scope of work and start a company start a project.

24:46And those two things have served us really well, for sure. I think the luxury of that to be able to do that is like you've been able to put yourself in a position to afford time, like you can really sit back and think and that's one of the things like I also love about you is you just like, you are a very busy person, your days are slammed. But I do think when it comes to really big decisions, like you have afforded yourself this luxury to think about what you actually want to do. And a lot of people are not at that place in their career yet. But I think now that you are where you are the way you treat money going back to what I really wanted to talk about is so fundamentally different than most other men that are in your position especially can you I don't want to speak on your behalf or whatever you're comfortable to share because so can you just talk about what you're comfortable with with the way that you think about money and the way that you leverage money and what you spend money on and where you just like think it's a waste okay I'll start and then feel free to leave yeah um going back to my parents like you know we weren't poor growing up but we weren't LA wealthy and as time went on my my my parents and I say parents because you know my dad was the one working my mom made a lot of sacrifices she has an MBA from Columbia too class of 1972 and they have a Harvard business case study together that's on their wall an article that was on the front of the Harvard business review but yeah but my mom graduated from Columbia in 1972 when a class was 500 people and like 20 25 women so my mom likes to say and I know she said to you um I didn't really know who a lot of people were but they all know who I was anyways um so I think my parents were not showy very good midwesters I mean the whole deal my mom drove Dodge Caravans for many many years quintessential soccer mom my dad drove Jeep Cherokee when that was kind of considered a cool nice-ish car but definitely not a showy car and um you know my brother and sister and I all have different manifestations of that but I think for starters you know what is money money is just a store of value right so what's a store of value it gives you freedom and options and going back to work I mean there's a lot of luxuries that I would have thought I earned 20 something years into my career but the one I'm sure about is that I have earned yeah maybe I work less than I worked at Goldman for someone else and I definitely work less than I do when I was really grinding and starting out but I still work more than I'd like but I have the freedom to do it how I want, where I want, when I want.

27:01And so, um, you know, you're with me. I still work quite a few weekends, but there's days where I do personal things and I make up for it on planes and whatever else I work in cars when you're getting car sick. I actually have a thing I'm going to do on Tik TOK one day. That's like, uh, all the places that my boyfriend works because you work literally will be away in Europe and like get to do some sightseeing. And then from like 9 PM until 12 in the morning, you're working or grinding or last night you just got home from a work trip we got to go for dinner and then you're like back on your computer before bed and it's actually like such an admirable I think one of the things I really aspire to because now we live in this world where it's like super remote you can kind of you know do or make your own fantasy of where you want to work but you have this work ethic I feel like that you just can't even get rid of if you tried well I also think I don't know like work it's kind of like working out right a lot of people I don't have time because they want it to like line up with these perfect circumstances.

27:53Like I have blocked my hour and a half. I will walk 10 minutes. I'll work out for an hour. I'll come back. Sometimes I do that, but most of the time, you know, you know what happens during the day and things get thrown off. So it's like, and you're the same way because I've seen you do like lunges in airports where it's like, sometimes I work out for 10 minutes. Sometimes I work out for 45. Sometimes I flip my laptop open and I'm like, it's changed a little bit, but in general, I used to never do anything on my phone because the amount I can accomplish when I flip my laptop open, hot spot in the back of a lift, shout out to lift as an early investor you can do so much more in 10 focus minutes in that lift than I can when I'm like half listening on my phone it's hard to work on your phone I'm reading this I'm flipping this to see the presentation so it's just about like kind of being really organized and ruthless efficiency um money money at this point some of my things I think okay let's just call it what it is wait let me hold like I'm gonna say one thing okay okay at this age I don't think I don't I think psychology would say I can probably not change my mindset but I'm just super value oriented.

28:51So I can spend what to most people in ungodly someone, not blink an eye, and I will throw down with someone over$7 if I didn't reap the value from it. And it's, it's, it's, I think overwhelmingly a good quality, but sometimes I'll do something and you haven't really questioned me on it. But other people, when they see it, they're like, it's$12. I was like, but you know, that's like not even$1 value. And I'm not, you know, I love that about you though. And also I remember the first day that we went on, I'm wearing heels and he pulls, we're going to Sassaboon. Is that how you say it? dyslexia problems um you were actually the person that told me to like be really upfront about my dyslexia and thank god i did because now i just feel like a weight has been lifted off my chest but that's great i don't know how you did it before because you didn't know it's like so endearing i didn't but i wasn't sure if it was like the canadian accent or something i was giving you the benefit but so we're walking to sasaboon eh and i remember you look so hot you're wearing my favorite outfit of yours and those you're wearing product sneakers yeah and we're walking from the street and you're like one thing about me I don't pay for valet and I was like that's so hot oh yeah yeah and I just think the way like you think about money and I know a lot of I'm I also fall victim to this like we live in this world of materialism and consumption and like you know I want an Hermes bag so freaking badly you've seen me get rejected from how many Hermes stores by now dozens dozens and even if I could get you one which I may or may not be able to do I don't even think I'd want to because it's like I think it would take away some of the adventure and i would be okay if you got me an arrest i mean it's really humbling to get rejected from remez and like but wasn't that one of the things that you love about me because i was like i would just go and get rejected and be like it doesn't matter it doesn't matter like a lot of people i feel like would be embarrassed by that but for me it was like it's just a learning experience rejection therapy but anyway you have you fly economy and you have a very big thing on like if we're traveling in the US.