Dianna Cohen on Firing Herself as CEO of Crown Affair to Become the Biggest Hair Brand in Beauty (Re-Run)

In short

Podcast Summary: Hot Smart Rich - Episode with Dianna Cohen

Episode Overview

Title: Dianna Cohen on Firing Herself as CEO of Crown Affair to Become the Biggest Hair Brand in Beauty (Re-Run)
Host: Maggie Sellers
Guest: Dianna Cohen, Founder and Ex-CEO of Crown Affair
Description: Dianna discusses her journey from beauty insider to founder, the evolution of Crown Affair, her decision to step down as CEO, and her vision for the future of her brand.

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Key Topics Discussed

Dianna's Journey
Background:
Dianna studied art history and Italian at NYU.
Worked at various brands, including being an intern at "Into the Gloss".
Gained experience in brand marketing and community building through positions in notable companies before starting Crown Affair.

Evolution of Crown Affair
Founding the Brand:
Crown Affair focuses on redefining clean luxury in hair care.
Initial product offerings were based on Dianna's personal needs and experiences, emphasizing quality and innovation.

Innovative Product Philosophy:
Emphasis on creating products that are both luxurious and effective.
Launch strategy involved carefully curated product lines, launching only 18 products over five years to ensure quality over quantity.

Transition from CEO to Chief Brand Officer
Decision to Step Down as CEO:
Dianna discusses the self-awareness required to recognize when to step back for the brand's growth.
Emphasizes the importance of having capable leaders in operational roles as the company scales.

Financing and Growth Strategies
Fundraising Success:
Crown Affair raised over $15 million across different funding rounds.
Dianna's approach to fundraising involved asking for advice rather than outright requesting money.

Marketing Insights
Brand Storytelling:
Dianna stresses the significance of building a brand ethos that resonates with consumers on a personal level.
Discusses the strategy of prioritizing organic marketing efforts and building relationships over traditional paid advertising.

Balancing Personal and Professional Life
Multi-Hyphenate Lifestyle:
Dianna shares her experiences managing travel, work, and personal life as a founder and wife.
Discusses the importance of maintaining routines and setting boundaries, especially while traveling frequently.

Content Creation and Personal Branding
Navigating Social Media:
Dianna reflects on her transition from being a founder to becoming an external-facing brand ambassador.
Highlights the learning curve associated with content creation and the shift in identity as she embraces her role more publicly.

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Key Takeaways

Self-Awareness in Leadership: Recognizing when to step back is crucial for the growth of a business.
Quality vs. Quantity: Focus on a few high-quality products rather than overwhelming the market with numerous options.
The Power of Storytelling: Building a brand’s narrative is essential to resonate with a diverse audience.
Mindset in Fundraising: Asking for advice rather than money can lead to more fruitful relationships with investors.

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Resources and Recommendations

Follow Dianna Cohen:
[Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/diannacohen/)
[TikTok](https://www.tiktok.com/@diannacohen)
[Substack](https://dianna.substack.com/)

Crown Affair:
[Website](https://go.shopmy.us/p-15372566)
Available at [Sephora](https://go.shopmy.us/p-15372642)

Maggie Sellers:
[Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/maggiesellers/)
[TikTok](https://www.tiktok.com/@maggiesellers_)

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Conclusion This episode of Hot Smart Rich offers invaluable insights into the entrepreneurial journey of Dianna Cohen and the strategic decisions that shaped Crown Affair into a leading hair care brand. Dianna's reflections on leadership, personal brand growth, and the challenges of being a founder provide listeners with practical wisdom applicable not only in business but also in personal development.

For more inspiring conversations, subscribe to Hot Smart Rich and join Maggie Sellers as she navigates the world of startups and personal growth.

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Transcript

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1:03in case you missed it you're allowed to be hot smart and rich so let's get into it

1:14hello diana cohen hi are you ready to get hot smart rich i mean already let's do it i'm so happy that i have you today because on a personal level i'm having a hair crisis we're going to talk about first just to warm us up. Let's do it. Second is like you have such an interesting career trajectory. I also was at a direct consumer darling. So there's just like so much to talk about in terms of being an operator to being a founder and like the journey of raising a series B and everything that you've done. So to start, we're going to talk about my hair, Grace. Okay. By the way, it's like favorite thing to talk about.

1:46So let's get into it. Which by the way, like I think makeup used to be the thing at Sephora and now it is like so hair care. Everybody cares about like luscious locks. My issue, and I'm hoping you can diagnose me. I went from having like not more than two showers a week, disclaimer, because I didn't need to wash my hair, like washing my hair. Sorry. No, I knew that you showered the other days. Yeah. I'm like, I did shower every day. Just washing my hair was like twice a week. Yes. Now I have to wash my hair literally every single day because I have such bad grease buildup. Do you see this a lot with women going into like their 30s from their 20s?

2:21Well, yeah. So your hair changes every six to seven years. So it's normal for, yeah, it has a lifespan of like six to seven years. So that's why it feels like every decade your hair changes, but it's really like that seven year mark. You're going to have different things happening. Also so much of it's from the inside. So maybe there's something hormonally. My advice is like, get your blood work done. Talk to a trichologist before you like start. What is a trichologist? Trichologist is someone who specifically studies the scalp. So some germs are trichologists, but honestly, I'm like a big believer in auditing what you're using before you like layer in new stuff.

2:54So like take a look at ingredients, do some Googling. You might just be using something that's too heavy for your scalp or there might be a harsh surfactant system. So, you know, when you use like a face cleanser, like overstrips your face and then you end up like getting greasy and oily. Yeah. Cause it's like, so that might be happening to your scalp. Wow. So you want to use a naturally derived satisfaction system. A lot of companies like take out sulfates. I'm sure what you're using is sulfate free, but a lot of companies replace them with pegs, which can also be really harsh on the scalp. So we can do a little audit.

3:23Okay. Well, I hope that you saw in my bathroom that there is crown affair, but here's my problem is that I travel so much that like I'm using hotel shampoos and conditioners and like, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah. So what do I do? You would not go to a hotel and be like, I hope they have my skincare. You're so right. Why did we do this? No, no, it's unhinged. You need to bring your own shampoo conditioner. Okay. But it seems like, you know so much about the science, which like you're not a scientist by background. So can you just like walk us through your background and how you got to become the founder of Crown Affair?

3:53Yes. So I'm not a scientist. You are correct. Ding, ding, ding. You did your research. Yes. So I went to NYU for undergrad, as I said. I studied art history in Italian. Okay. I didn't know what marketing was, if I'm being honest with you. So anyone out there listening who's like, I'm a marketing major. I truly thought marketing was like old school mad men advertising. Did not realize that like building brands and storytelling was something that was a job, which is so crazy. It shows you how I'm dating myself a little. Yeah. I'm like, how old are you? I'm 33. Okay. We're like, say I'm 32. Yeah.

4:26Okay. Yeah. I interned at a ton of places in college, which was great. My last internship was at Into the Gloss. After Into the Gloss, spent a decade building other consumer brands, but always was on the brand marketing, community building early influencer all of that friend who's actually my husband's best friend from elementary school is a bioengineer and chemist cool so he really helped me on all of the early product now we have amazing chemists and contract manufacturers and innovation is super important to me I think because I come from outside of the hair care industry I'm so much more intentional yeah and thoughtful and curious and like I always say that if you walk into a contract manufacturer and you ask for a dry shampoo like you're gonna get an aerosol dry shampoo so or like ask for a hair gel.

5:08You're not going to get a hair gel that brushes out. So I think because the category, there's just been like, this is what we always do. It's really hard to get innovation. So I weirdly think not having a science background is helpful, but yeah, have amazing scientists around you. Cause that's truly like the only way you're going to, I think, create truly innovative product. So you have a rule that's like, you have a hero product of every single thing that you put out, which I actually love. Do you design products from like what you want the end state to be. So like you want a dry shampoo to be X, Y, and Z, and then the team goes almost like backwards to find it.

5:41Or how do you develop products that have a hit every single time? Well, thank you for saying that they're hit every single time. It's actually funny too, because you'll launch something into the world and it might go well. And it might be like two years later that people finally try it and love it. It becomes this hit. So the first like 12 products in Crown Affair were based off a Google doc that I made in 2018. And it was like all the things I swear by from like a hairbrush, like a beautiful handmade hairbrush to the hair towel, to the dry shampoo, to the hair mask. So that was like the base, that was basically the roadmap of like the original products.

6:13We've obviously, I think we have like 18 or 20 SKUs now. But you only have 18 or 20. And how long have you guys been around for? It's been five years. So think about that because everybody thinks about the fact that you have to be launching products all the time and you've done only 18 products in five years. Yes. And there it's because A, there's so many products in the world. B, like as a smaller brand, right? I'm not like a big corporation. Like it takes time. It takes like two and a half years from like ideation to actually launching it and testing and sampling. I mean, I think we went through like 58 lab samples for like our recent shampoo.

6:46Yeah. Our recent shampoo and conditioner. And I didn't launch a shampoo and conditioner, which from an investor perspective, I got so many eyeballs. Wait, so what was your first product? It was, we had four products we launched. It was the post wash routine. So like the second you get out of the shower, hair towel, comb, which are handmade in Switzerland, our brush, which is for later, which is handmade in Italy. And then our first formula product is our hair oil. Wow. Only five ingredients inspired from a trip I took to Japan in 2019. I went to a head spa. They used to do baki seed oil on my hair.

7:17And I was like, why is my hair? It just, the oil is so hydrating, but weightless. And a lot of the oils that I was trying hair are just like heavy. Yeah. And I have a lot of hair, but like, it's fine. I was going to say like, do you have fine hair or do you have really thick hair? No, it's fine. Okay. If I put something too heavy on my hair, it's done. And I always joke with Crown Affair to your question earlier. It's like so much of it is the component, it's the experience, but it's also like, I am making products that like get you one more day to wash day and give you that like hydrated, but weightless hair aren't like heavy on your head.

7:47It's so important. You know? That's amazing. Did you always want to be a hair care founder? No, no, no. I didn't, as I was saying, like, I didn't know what, I went to NYU thinking that I would like work for Anna Wintour one day. Okay. You were like a media girl. Everyone, totally. Yeah. I wasn't a media girl. I just watched the Devil Wears Prada 7 ,000 times and was like, I can be Andy Sachs. This is great. Oh my God. But honestly, like I went into college in 2009. I graduated a year early in 2012. And even then it was just like the internet was happening. So So it's also a bit of a function of just the time and got into the e-commerce space.

8:22Yeah. I will say I've always been obsessed with beauty and Into the Gloss was Bible for me. So I think I've always been really passionate about this. And I don't know. I didn't think I'd be a hair care founder. But looking back, I was obsessed with hair when I was a kid. And it's always that like final accessory. So I didn't know it, but it doesn't surprise me. Yeah. So you and I both worked at Direct Consumer Darlings like around the same time, which if you did not get lucky enough to work at a direct consumer darling, it was like an experience you can't explain. Just like the amount of money that was thrown into the brands, like the amount of just like brands that were built that were iconic in nature, I feel like is so hard to do nowadays.

8:59You guys have done it, which we'll get into later. But what do you think you learned that you do the same as that time? And what do you think you do that you're like, I can never operate like that in my own brand, having lived it as an operator? Yeah. So I would say like 80 % of what I learned is what not to do. Yeah, same. Not how to not, you know, the hiring mistakes, the spending money, the fundraising too much, all of that, like moving fast and breaking things and those things being people. I'm so grateful. And I say this all the time, especially to people just starting out in their career.

9:28Like it is important to work for other people because you learn from their mistakes. There was also magic. And I think the common thread between every single job that I had, whether it was Into the Gloss, Away, Outdoor Voices, Harry's, like those founders really did have a vision. And I feel like even with Crown Affair, it's about putting something into the world that changes the way that people feel about themselves. And it isn't really just about the product. It's more about the ethos of the brand. And I think all of those businesses did that really thoughtfully. When I was a marketing manager, marketing director for a direct-to-consumer It was crazy.

10:09I, yeah, I learned on somebody else's dime. Yeah. We raised like a hundred million dollars in four years and burnt a hundred million dollars in four years. It was insane. I was throwing like the opening party at Art Basel. And what that did for me was like, it really created a competitive advantage where I like had an insane network. I knew what not to do, like you said, but I also think like my relationship with money became a little bit skewed because I was so used to like the highs and lows of fundraising and just like things being so accessible and being able to buy your way into anything.

10:40What do you feel like your relationship is with money as like someone who steward Crown Affair from like, now it's like your own baby, you know, it's like so different when you're spending your own money. How do you guys think about money at Crown Affair and like what to invest in and what not to? This is, by the way, such a good question because I, it's funny, even though I was on marketing teams at other businesses, I actually felt like I didn't have massive budgets in like the grand scheme of things. Like I had to be really scrappy. I've always been on the organic side of marketing. So like, for example, at Away, like the team that got a lot of budget was the paid marketing team.

11:12For sure. So I've always been the organic marketing girl, which is like brand partnerships. Even influencer at the time was different. It wasn't the same in 2016, 17, 18. You're not getting paid like 50 grand for one dick dog. No, it was like, here's a suitcase. It was so different. So I was always making magic. I remember even we took over a hotel in Paris and I think I had like 150K budget and I got the Haim sisters to come and DJ. I got Emily Rodakowski to host an event. I got Danielle Bernstein. All these people just came. We obviously comped their flights in the hotel, but like it was all relationships, you know, all the partnerships I did there.

11:46So it was like, it was all relationships. It was structuring things in a creative way, whether that was revenue share. I didn't have like, I had something to work with. There's a great quote in that film, The Descendants, the one with George Clooney, that's like, give your kids enough to do something, but not enough to do nothing. Same philosophy with building businesses. And when I was starting crown affair I had like a fantasy that maybe I could bootstrap but spoiler alert I didn't have like a random pot of money sitting anywhere like I needed to raise capital in order to actually start the business but I obviously had the learnings of like you can't actually be everything to everyone and it's probably not a good idea to raise over a hundred million dollars because it actually creates inefficiencies when you have too much money and uh in the book tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow I don't know if you've read it no oh it's such a good book okay we're gonna put this in the show notes.

12:32Yeah, it's amazing. I won't get into it, but we did it for a little internal crown affair book club. And there's a line in there that says, limitations can be style if you make them so. Love that. And I love that because I think that like, it's the same. By the way, it's the same with physical style. This is kind of hilarious, but everyone compliments me on this sweater and it's literally from Costco. I love it. I was like, where's it from? But I'm wearing like Kate pants right now. And I know this is like a random example, but I think sometimes having limitations can be good, but I also don't know how to do something with nothing.

13:03So when it came to fundraising, my strategy with Crown Affair has always been raise as you go. So I did 2 million for my seed. And then we did a, once we got Sephora contract, we did 3 million because inventory, visual merchandising, field teams, team, all of that. And then once we had momentum at Sephora, we raised a series A of 5 million. So it sounds like a lot of money when you're like oh I've raised like over 15 million dollars but like looking at that across five years and where the company is now it's like and you know it's like nothing but also like to give you your flowers do you know how hard it is when you raised in 2022 I was doing some research you did your series a in 2022 raising five million dollars as a female solo founder in 2022 post the 2021 like unicorn just like high high of the market was so hard to do.

13:53Like to be able to say you've done that plus a$9 million series B, you're really good at asking for money. What is the secret to asking men for money for your female hair care business? You don't ask for money. You ask for advice. That's my favorite saying. You ask for advice, get money. If you ask for money, you get advice. If you ask for advice, you get money. Yes. That's essential. Also to your question earlier, because it's kind of tied, like how do you know what to spend money on? I think that the reason that people, yes, we vibe and they get the vision and the product's amazing. They obviously having great product is key, but I also have investors who don't have hair.

14:32So one of my listeners literally is bald. So the truth is, is like I was in the trenches for 10 years. Granted, the playbook has changed exponentially, but they trust that I know how and when to spend money and we do it in like the most efficient way possible. And the reality is like building a prestige hair care brand, like hiring the talent we do, the photographers, the components that we have, like this is not cheap, you know, like I'm not selling a cheap brand. Like when people order Crown Affair or get it at Sephora, I want them to be like, whoa, this is like a luxury experience. Yeah. Like our combs are handmade in Italy.

15:07We're not making, you know what I mean? Like I don't want to disappoint anyone. There's so much random stuff in the world. Like, so that's not a cheap endeavor. And for me, it has always been about philosophical alignment with my investors. That's like, this is the type of brand we're building. And if you want to invest in a brand that's like entirely subscription-based, selling you something for sub$20, like those are great businesses too. For sure. Different, different things. Different things. Yeah. Do you feel like investors were ever worried that like just with where the economy is going, it's so unknown and people are like, obviously, I don't know if you just saw this, but 50 % of the spend right now in America is by like the top 1 % of Americans.

15:43like did your investors ever worry around like where the economy is going that people are going to like kind of stop splurging on certain things and pull back or is that just like that's not who we're building for we're building for x and that's still a huge market yeah I feel like the conversation has always been more about like where we sit in the matrix yeah you're smaller it's more of a venn diagram yeah where you're like here's the two kind of things yeah we sit in the middle and then as you grow it's more of a matrix right and if that matrix is like mass and luxury yeah clean not clean crown affairs always sat like on the clean side of where orbe and kerastos and christopher bent and all the luxury brands that i've always loved but we're at the other side of the matrix yeah and the other side of that like the top side of the matrix i should say the other side of the matrix is like more of the mastige brands more of the like gen z brands and that's not to say we don't have amazing customers who are 16 we also have customers that are 70 and 80 years old.

16:38So I've always wanted to build a brand that could reach so many different types of people. It wasn't just about, you know, it wasn't trendy or it's like really building a legacy brand. So that's been more of the conversation, more than like the macroeconomic climate. Yeah. But it's an interesting topic right now. And I think the reality is it does work twofold. I mean, there's a reason that there's like makeup and beauty always does well. Yeah. During recession proof. Recession proof. You know, I mean, I can't buy a house, so I'm going to buy a nice hairbrush. Like for sure. I joke, but like it's real right now.

17:11So it's like, how do you welcome these little luxuries into your life to make everything better? So I think that's probably specific to beauty. Um, but you know, I've always been making for a customer for me. I was shopping and investing in hair care. It's someone who understands that like the quality and the experience it's, it's definitely not for everyone and that's okay. You know, for sure. So with hot smart rich, we really like people to walk away with like, if they're building a brand, they're listening to this. They're like, I learned this from Diana. Like, obviously we're going to ask for advice, but when you're thinking around negotiating, and I think for a lot of women that are listening that are just like, it's hard being a woman going up against a lot of male investors or a lot of like male people they're pitching to.

17:51What is like one of the things that you learned around behavior when you're asking for money that they can also mirror? Yeah. I mean, they're lucky to invest in you. I love that. That's like the number one thing, but you're doing them a favor. It's a mindset shift. You are doing them a favor. Yeah. If you are creating something right now, you are going to put your soul into this, especially in this day and age. When I started Crown Affair five years ago, I never spoke to camera. What? Yeah. I joke that I'm reverse pipeline now because it's like a lot of influencers start companies. Right. But I always thought I'd do this or an interview, but I was not really an external facing founder in an influencer type way.

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22:56Yes. But I love your openness talking about money. I read your, I don't know if it was like a report, but I read an article about like how you guys were even going to finish last year with 20 million in revenue, hopefully a profitable year. What about your personal relationship with money? Like how did you grow up thinking about money? Like how do you think about money now as a founder? How has that relationship changed since you started Crown Affair? Yeah. I mean, first of all, it's been such a journey and something I talk about in therapy a lot. I did not grow up with, I mean, my dad grew up in poverty.

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23:27My parents did not have any money. Neither of my parents went to college. My dad is a self-made entrepreneur. Amazing. What a good role model. Amazing role model. He's very much my North Star. And my mom and him I'm always invested in our education. So from a young age, I went to really great schools. My parents supported me and paid for NYU, which is like the greatest blessing of all time. Like, you know, again, like give your kids enough to do something, not enough to do nothing. I definitely, I don't know how kids today do it. Like I was not, I did not have the funds, right? To like show off and spend in this way.

24:00I've always had to stretch everything. I love vintage shopping. I love thrift shopping. You know, I'm in my thirties now. I have more disposable income. Like I've had the thirties are your best generation. Just wait, if you're in your twenties and listening to this and like, you feel like you're not enough because of money, like that's a huge part of all of our journeys, you know, it's the one that I've been on. I will say I've always had an abundant mindset. Same. Um, it's just, and probably from my father, like it's just the money will come. Yeah. Caveat. I've been with my husband for 12 years now.

24:31We've been married for four years. He is a financial advisor at UBS and he is a Virgo and he is like to the cent where every dollar goes. And I am like, oh, I'm like, what's going to cost? Banana's$10. Like I'm not a rest of development joke. I'm just a little not grounded. So he keeps me like making sure everything is good. And then Elaine, who's my new CEO, is the same as him. Okay. So I am surrounded by people who are like, no, Diana. Yeah. Don't spend. And Elaine has been a ninja with this stuff. Okay. I was going to say this to the very end, but you just made a huge announcement with Elaine.

25:08Oh, yes. So it is very rare. I'm going to say this in the most shocking way. Yeah. You just fired yourself as the CEO of Crown Affair. She did. I did that. Congratulations. Do you know how many founders I wish would fire themselves? And I say it that way because like you actually did Crown Affair, the biggest service by like doing what you can do best and bringing in Elaine. But let's talk about this because this is huge. What happened? A lot of therapy. Okay. Spill the tea. And probably part of that 80 % that I learned from other founders, I think the biggest thing as a founder is like you have to be self-aware and get out of your own way.

25:50So yes, I started the company. I'm the founder and CEO. I'm technically the founder and chief brand officer now. That's my like official internal title. How do you feel with the title? I mean, I'm so happy. Yeah. What I've been doing is the truth. You know, the first three years of the business, I was the CEO in the sense that I was on every single email in the – I'm not a superhero at finance, but I was in every single cell, every single meeting, fundraised every single dollar by myself. And it was really – I mean, this Series B, Elaine did with me. Okay. It was the first – That was actually going to be one of my questions because a friend of mine is going through that right now where she is planning on doing the fundraise as CEO and then firing herself essentially.

26:27And her board is saying, you can't do that because you can't let go. of yourself after you're complete. So you did it together. We did it together. Okay. So it was, and she had supported on other fundraisers, but it was very ad hoc. Like my thing is like, Elaine is super busy. She's extraordinarily competent, has amazing capacity. So like, I'm not going to bother her until something is real. Okay. So like I would do all the investor meetings, kind of take it to the next level. The second that we needed to put stuff in a data room, Elaine's in and in the mix. This series B fundraise, she was in end to end because it starts to get really it's real with a series b yeah not that it's not real in seed or a but like you're still very much building on the vision and the potential profitability once you're like in a retail like the numbers are it yeah um so she was a huge part of that i think for me i just the truth is is like if i were to look at my kpis like i should not be measured as the ceo what do you mean by that meaning like i'm not running the day-to-day of the business okay sense my core competencies now are external facing, brand vision, product development, leading the team, but not managing the team.

27:34It's so funny. I feel like I'm sitting across from myself because I did kind of what you're doing, but like way earlier, like my sister was the former CFO of Mejuri and built like a massive business. I am not an operations person. And I knew from the beginning, I'm the best thing that will ever happen to this business. And I'm the worst. I need to get out of the way. I am a horrible manager of people. I'm an amazing leader, but I am a horrible manager. I just don't have the patience. It's not my skill set. I need to be out like raising money, investing, like meeting people, doing content, like all the things that make me great.

28:05But I think so many people feel this pressure of like, that takes away from everything I've done. You talked about going to therapy and what you had to go through to get to this decision. Like walk us through the first moment you had in your brain where you were like maybe I'm not going to be the CEO of Crown Affair anymore. Yeah. It was, first of all, amazingly self-aware of you. It's like realizing that you are the roadblock. That's the truth, right? That's the thing. It's like things can't move so quick when you are holding onto them so tightly. It was about two years ago that I realized at some point I was actually speaking, I think I was talking to Jen Atkin.

28:42Okay. And we were talking about her then CEO, Colin. Her now CEO is Hannah, who is incredible and I know as well. And we were just kind of talking about like that point when like the business becomes bigger than you and you need someone to make decisions. And like that person that you bring in, whether you hire them, so there's like a hired gun. Yeah. Or you can promote and elevate someone internally, which is what I did in this case. Alayna's been with me for five and a half years. And you just reach a point where you're like, I know I need to do this. I got to start exploring the options. It was in November of last year that we internally made the announcement.

29:13but like probably like spring of last year, it was about a year ago that we started to make the transition. Elaine and I hired a coach. Okay, to go through the transition with you? Yeah, it wasn't official then. It was just like we knew we needed support to take the business to the next level. Okay. And it's funny because Elaine and I are obviously women. We're both like conflict avoidant, want everything to be good. There's no issues. It's not like we're screaming or fighting at each other, but you really need to get like, I joke that it's like couples therapy, but like I meet with my coach every week.

29:43She meets with her the other week alone. And then we come together to meet as a group once a month. And it's like an hour and a half session of just like, here's everything. And the coach is amazing. They teach you all these tools to like communicate better, hold space for the other person, see what the other person is saying. And I think so many people don't make the time or invest in that. And it has single-handedly transformed the business. So yeah. And then in November, we were like, it's time. I spoke with my board. It's me and one other woman who's on my board at the time. And we're like, do we hire someone?

30:16But at all these businesses, you bring in all these big hired guns, and they don't actually jive with the team and kind of ruins the culture. And I really believe from the bottom of my heart that Alina is the person to take Crown Affair to 30 and 50 and onwards. It's so funny you say that because one of the biggest pitfalls I think that we had at my former direct-to-consumer darling is we hired – Like my first boss was the former president of Tesla North America. My second boss was the CMO of Burton Snowboards. And they were so not used to executing because they had led like 400 person teams. And they were like looking at me like I'm creating the deck.

30:50And I was like, yeah, like I'll help you. But like there's 10 of us on the team. You have to do it, you know. And so I think for you to promote internally is such a beautiful thing, especially with where the business is at. What about Elaine do you feel like makes her fit for CEO versus like your skill set and qualifications? I mean, she's just like, we always joke that like we complete and make one person. I love that. Like I'm so right brain and I'm capable of doing the left brain stuff, but it's not where I naturally thrive. She's so left brain. Like she, prior to joining me at Crown Affair, she worked for Larry Ellison and was his head of operations.

31:24Larry Ellison obviously started Oracle. Yeah. But he had a wellness kind of vision that he was building. It's called Sensei. It's like a wellness retreat. It's amazing what she did. She built out everything there. before that she worked with lorraine pal jobs steve jobs's ex-wife building out her non-profit she's like a systems person but she also like interned at chanel in college right so i joke that like elene is like my left brain spreadsheet thinker who like gets the vibe love it so yeah so she she's also like deeply invested in people yeah i'm not a good manager i'm a great why do you say that oh i'm like a great mentor not a good manager no i'm too like i i want people to thrive and grow and win.

32:05I'm an amazing mentor, but managing, I think most people aren't very good managers. If I'm being honest with you, I think there's very few people who are. I'm not one of them. She is. So now you are doing the opposite of what a lot of people are doing to build brands, which is they become a creator and then they become a founder and you have essentially become a founder, got your company to a series B. So you've raised how much money? We've raised, I have to get the final number it's around. It's sub 20 million. between 20 million let's just say yeah and now you fired yourself to become basically a creator almost in a way walk us through like that journey of now stepping into being front of the camera creating content and what that like I guess switching your brain is like yeah I mean it's so new for me 30 to 40 like 30 percent of my time is still very like product focused which I love and is my favorite part yeah it's so much fun like doing the product development the research sitting with our chemists.

32:58Like I love that. But the other part of my time is external facing. So that could be like this week, why I'm here is Sephora is hosting this summit with masterclasses and the squad and doing a masterclass with Amy from tower 28. So like that's really fun, right? That's not like me getting on Tik TOK necessarily, but it's me being external. So that I'm, I love doing, I love doing this. Like I love doing podcasts. It has honestly been a new muscle making content. I've been doing it for like two years now since I just like started posting on TikTok. You know, it's not my core business. I have so much respect for people who are full-time content creators.

33:35It's so funny, like, cause I, for the stigma of it when I first started, like I was doing it because I essentially was cited by a celebrity that I was working for that didn't want me to talk about like all of the work behind the scenes that I was doing on a deal. And I remember being like, I'm going to become the talent. Like this is never going to be me again where someone gets to like write my own destiny and tell me what I can and cannot talk about. But I think it took me like honestly two years to even when people would be like, what are you doing now? Are you creating content only? I'd be like, no.

34:03Like even though I was investing and like doing all the things, I was still so embarrassed to say like I'm a creator, I'm creating content. And now it's so funny because it's like a form of currency that's almost more valuable than money. And so it's so interesting to see like the hate that still gets put towards creators. Like it's not a real job. Do you ever feel this sense of like loss of identity having gone from this like CEO role to now being this like creator focused chief brand officer? I'm not a good creator yet in my book. You are amazing. No, well, I joke that Crown Affair is in year five, Diana Cohen's in year one.

34:37Love that. So like, and by the way, you're such a marketer. It's crazy. You have like a little thing for everything. I'm like, can I hire you for a second. I mean, like this is, by the way, this stuff takes time to me. I think like, right. I'm, I'm so grateful. I always say the best analogy. There's a show on Hulu called English teacher. Okay. And the creator of the show is also the lead actor and he's spent his whole life like build it, you know, building to this point to be like on an amazing show. When the show launched, it like was, wasn't doing super well. It just was like normal. It was on FX is what it was.

35:07My husband was like, Diana, let's watch it. He loves FX shows. So I started watching it, fell in love with the show, could not find a single person to talk to about it. And I'm like, it's so strange that the show is so good and so well written, but like no one's watching it. Fast forward six months later, the creator and writer of the show started doing this little dance on TikTok to like that. It was like to a song and it blew up. It had nothing to do with the show. Interesting. It was just him dancing every day he would post. It became this meme. It blew up. His show, English Teacher, becomes one of the most watched shows.

35:36Because of this meme that had nothing to do with the actual. That's the best marketing. He didn't get on TikTok being like, let me tell you about my show. He just had fun. And I think that's the uncomfortable thing that I'm learning and working through right now is like, I'm so great at building brands and making products and storytelling. And I want to get on there and be like, let me guide you through this. But the truth is, is like, even the smart customers don't have attention spans anymore. So it's like finding what works. And I think that I'm sure that the creator of that show is very happy that he didn't just build his career on TikTok.

36:08For sure. where so for me it's like how do I figure out how to do that and have fun with it and connect with people and for me it's about waking up every day reminding me like the mission is to empower and elevate women and like show people that they can do this and that they can build a life for themselves like no one handed this to me yeah like it really is about showing up every day and it's hard because like it's really hard to translate what you're doing to the internet Oh my God. It's like not in my DNA at all, but like I want to figure out creative ways to do that. And Substack, honestly, which I started in October.

36:42I love your Substack. Thank you. I started in October, so it hasn't even been a year. It has been such a special space. I think I have like 6 ,000 subscribers, but like they are purists, you know, and like want to know about the journey. So I'm figuring it out. As I said, I'm like in year one of Diana Cohen, but the goal is like not dissimilar from Crown Affair. but the truth is like I would love to do crown affair 100 % of my time but like I've hired people who are better than me yeah so that is why I let go it's not that I don't want to do it my dream is to do crown affair like forever like I go to Sephora brand summits and I see Carissa the founder of hourglass like hourglass is a 20 year old brand it got bought by Unilever in the 2010s but like she's still there she's still there I'm having lunch with her and I'm like I want to be you yeah so yeah like I would love to keep growing this brand and like honestly like I joke I'm like I want to find a home for it just so I can like get prioritized in like production lines yeah it's hard being a smaller brand and with supply chain and operations like but I I've built a brand that I want to use every day and because of that I want to do it every day but I'm also excited to like explore ways that I can inspire people and the last thing I'll say on that is like the purest of what Diana Cohen is like crown affair needs to grow beyond me yeah so that's why building out my own channels which is scary and weird and I'm figuring it out is important because I can't share that this is what I'm wearing on crown affair for sure you know which I feel like you can though in a way and that's what I love it like you know strawberry milk mob I don't but oh my god you have to follow her like she like this is what I think is like so key for brands nowadays when they're thinking about their social media strategy she started a bikini brand she is doing like numbers that are unheard of for drops by basically having her personality be her business brands tiktok page so like if it works for them i don't think it would work for crown affair because crown affair has developed like brands or people it's like such a luxe persona and it's like you transport yourself into like the romanticize of your life that you want to be and we're all busy women i think that's what i love about beautiful brands and i think when millennial pink was getting killed and in like Gen Z was like these bright colors.

38:49I was like, oh my God, I'm like killing my, the romanticized version of what I want to be, even though that's not my day to day life. But this girl has done such a good job building a brand around herself and like, she'll literally do like what I'm wearing or like funny trends. And it's like her business account. But I think one thing that you said that's super interesting is, and it was hard for me, is figuring out boundaries of content because when you're building your personal brand, you're like do I share everything do I not share everything and it was so interesting to me because when I was first starting to create content it was really like business 101 finance 101 like I was an angel investor from five years ago with like not a crazy founder exit was just like starting to put money away and then the breakthrough moment for me happened when I called off my engagement two years ago and I like came online after hiding it for like five months and I was like, I really don't know what to say other than, yes, I live somewhere else.

39:46I'd no longer wear a ring and I called off my engagement. And like, that was the moment people were like, you are a real person. Like your life was so unattainable before. It was so like something I could never strive for that. It was like almost a disconnect from like a real person. And that was the moment I noticed that vulnerability, like really transformed me to the next level, but it's also hard to like use your struggles or figure out like where your boundaries are with your life and like your personal life. Where do you, have you thought about like what types of stuff are just going to be off the table for you?

40:22Like your relationship or your family or like where are you at with like those boundaries? Yeah. I think it's such a great point. And I, by the way, there are so many amazing creators that are like forward facing in their brands. For me, I always want crown affair to be bigger than me. Yeah. For example, yesterday when When I landed in LA, I was like, I'm going to go to the row on Melrose. And I bought a little, treated myself to a little something. And the saleswoman who has to be in her like early fifties, you know, she's like, oh, what are you in town for? I was like, oh, I'm here for this four thing.

40:48I have a brand. She goes, what's your brand? I said, I said, it's Crown Affair. She goes, you're kidding me. She's like, I use your volumizing shampoo and conditioner. I use your dry. By the way, it's like a woman in her fifties who has worked at the row for 10 years. That's amazing. And I'm like, she has no idea who I am. Yeah. You know what I mean? And it's not like she found the brand through me, anything. Like Crown Affair exists as this beautiful thing. This woman's in head to toe of the row. She uses Crown Affair. It was so nice to make that connection. Yeah. And it's great that I'm associated.

41:13But for me, it's like that's why I feel like especially with our content, I'm referencing the Hermes and Luella's of the world. Not, you know. But for me, it's like Diana Cohn can be fun and playful. It's so tricky, this question, because like I'm such a millennial. Okay, what do you mean by that? I don't know how to like be vulnerable or anything online. I think I'm vulnerable around like leadership and like stepping down as CEO and like being honest, but it's just not in my nature to document everything. I mentioned my husband. I call him Bubz. So people like I'll meet people and they like don't even know his name is Alex.

41:47They're like, how's Bubz? I mean, Bubz and I have been together for 12 years. It's like, you know, we're just like partners in life. There's not like highs and lows. You know, he's on my Instagram and stuff, but I wouldn't like make him do TikTok. with me. But it's not because it's like off the table. I think if he was into it, I'd be like, get on in, babe. UBS wealth manager, come over here. Yeah, but he's like 40 and like had no interest. Oh, my boyfriend is also 46. So I like dating older. Well, you guys are seven years apart. He's seven years apart. We're 14. My parents are 17 years apart.

42:16Okay. I love that. And my mom is six foot one and my dad's five foot five. Stop right now. So like 20 years, basically 20 years apart. And like my mom clears my dad by like a good six inches. I love that. So I have no stigmas against height or age for the record. But no, I think it's really tricky and I think I'll learn, but I love you sharing that because I don't, it's all happening so fast, you know, like all these things, the highs and lows of building a team, fundraising, all these things. Like there have been low moments, like it's not easy. No. But the part of me kind of loves that it can also feel like a magic trick.

42:51Like part of what makes a magic trick so amazing is that you don't know how it works. Yeah. And it's like you have awe. To me, it's like one of my favorite feelings in this world is a sense of awe. And sometimes you don't want to know all of it and how it works. And like the second that you know how the magic trick works and I take you through every little detail, it's like the magic is gone. Yeah. That's not to say I won't be vulnerable in like real spaces. If I'm sitting at a dinner or even like this, like I'm totally honest, but I wouldn't say it's in my DNA to like, I don't like talking to the camera, like FaceTime what's going on because it's all happening so quickly and I do a lot of journaling every day.

43:25I do a lot of self-reflection. So like I feel very complete in that without having to share, but who's to say? Yeah. You know, it is such an interesting thing because I think for me, it's like what I'm navigating and, uh, you know, being at the age that I'm at, it's like, I do want kids one day, but like, I don't know when I will share that, you know, cause it's like, it's such a private thing. I haven't gone through it. You don't know what you don't know. But all I can say from my experience of like the one piece of advice I have for you as you start this journey, and this was a really big roadblock for me until I got the podcast, because for me, people don't know everything I'm doing behind the scenes, which is investing hundreds of thousands of dollars, millions of dollars a year into brands.

44:02It's very hard to democratize that on TikTok in a minute-long video, whereas the podcast is an hour-long format where I'm like, this is how much money I'm investing into deals, and this is this, and I just open up my whole life. So the roadblock for me with TikTok was I felt like I had to be so smart every single TikTok up until I started the podcast. Cause I was like, people are going to judge me and think I'm not smart if I post about my hair care routine or like my eating routine or what I'm eating at sweet green. And what I realized is like, people honestly want to follow people. They don't want to follow like regimens and like learning one-on-one.

44:37And I don't envy the creators that have grown so much faster than me niching down because I'm like, you are stuck there now. So I think as you think about this next journey, it's like figuring out the five, 10 things that you want to talk about and then just like going deep into them versus feeling like, ah, like I can't talk about that because it's not part of my brand. Like try it and see what happens. I, this honestly such amazing advice. And I feel like one of the reasons my sub stack has done fine, but like I got advice early on. Someone's like, I don't know what to expect from you. One day you're talking about a capsule wardrobe and styling.

45:11And the next day you're talking about like five years of crown affair. And then the next day you're talking about like what it means to be a millennial on TikTok. And the next day you're talking about like what you bought for the holidays. And I'm like, yeah, but that's because it's reflective of me. And I think one of the things about the content that I create and what I'm learning is like, I don't have an audience. There are people who engage, but like the other day I met the most fabulous woman at an event who's in her early sixties, lives in San Francisco, is like a trustee at SF MoMA and was like, Diana, I'm obsessed with your sub stack.

45:39And I read it. And it's like, she's not commenting. She's not liking. Like there's definitely an audience that's quieter, you know? So I think too, like something might not perform well, but it doesn't mean that people aren't consuming. It's not how many people you reach, but how many you move, which is hard to process. Okay. But I have a PSA to anybody that doesn't comment, like subscribe, share. It's like things that you love that you don't tell them you love them will go away. And that is the saddest thing about relationships. That's amazing. Yeah, I honestly made a video about this one day because I remember I used to do this like five podcasts for Hotsmart Rich Girls every single Monday.

46:17250 ,000 views every single time, like tons of comments, whatever. And then it started going down because I think people expected it of me. It was like an expectation that I'm going to listen to 25 podcasts a week, narrow them down, which ones I love, and then share them with you. And the comments stopped coming in. The engagement stopped. and I made a video and I was like, if you guys don't like this content anymore, that's okay, but I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to like keep putting myself into like this period of listening to this much, curating, whatever. And then the amount of comments that came back in that were like, wait, no, we love this.

46:51And I'm like, if you don't tell people you love them or that you love it, it will leave. It's so true, by the way. Someone the other day was like, all of the content that's work that is getting rewarded is like satisfying the algorithm and it's like that's not always the best content and I think that's exactly it and so true and yes I mean this woman probably just like isn't on the internet as much but I agree with you and it's important to like really support I think that's what we're seeing right now I was just talking to my head of PR about this how everything is niching down and when you think about like as a business like where to spend money on influencers on whatever it is yeah like when I look at the data it's like the the really like intentional audiences are doing well you know and it's surprising it's it's we're in a weird interesting time right now we're like we're very much at the mercy of the algorithm so I think it needs to be a combination of like creating an architecture for yourself as a creative that you really want to go for the long run yeah you know while also understanding that like this episode is brought to you by ebay we all have that piece the one that sew you, you've basically become known for it.

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48:37Plus, you can earn 125 ,000 bonus miles for a limited time through October 29th. The Delta SkyMiles Reserve Business card. If you travel, you know. Minimum spending requirements and terms apply. Offer ends October 29th, 2025. five. This is just a lot. It's a consistency journey. Yeah. It's hard. It's so interesting because I just bought a pair of pants from Revolve and it's all the pants that I could wear when I got my surgery. And I posted one Instagram story with the pants and I sold like, I'll just be super honest. I sold$11 ,000 worth of these pants from one, from one Instagram story. Oh my goodness.

49:08So my sister's like, we should talk to this brand about the fucking pants. Like you sold$11 ,000 with pants. And it's so funny because as like, you could say a micro creator, it's like your rates sometimes don't equate to like the volume or like the quality that you can put out in terms of your output. And I think that's what's so hard about the creator economy. And as a brand founder, I'm so interested in your opinion of like, when you're getting a rate back from somebody and you're like, ah, that their audience is small, but they might convert. Like, how do you wrestle with like where to spend money with creators that might not have the following, but have the engagement versus the ones that like are for mass or awareness but don't necessarily convert.

49:47Right. And by the way, I love that you use this example because so often it's the organic thing that actually converts. Yeah. And it's almost like – this is why I think of their relationships, you know? So like let's just say I was the pants company right now. Yeah. And I was like, okay, you sold$11 ,000 worth of pants. Great. Let's do a campaign together. I'll pay you X. Yeah. You might do that campaign and you get on there and you're like, guys, these pants are amazing blah blah blah it might not it's probably not going to move as much probably yeah because people don't want to be sold to yeah so I see it as like a holistic relationship of like it's not just this one and done thing it's like let's actually hire you have you to make a video maybe we whitelist that video maybe we repurpose it maybe it's like the content is valuable in its own right too not just the conversion of it you might work with people I mean I've worked not just at crown affair at other companies where you pay someone a big greet and it doesn't move the needle at all, but that's because you're measuring the conversion on the code or whatever it is.

50:41That person might have seen so-and-so wear it, eight months later buys it. So it so depends on your brand, your budget, what that is. But I can say this, if you have the right platforms, you can see how much product people are moving. And I think it's about finding a nice balance of things. You might work with a creator and they're going to move a lot of product that day. And the next time you work with them, it's just about the awareness. I love that answer. And so that's how we really do our structure now too, is it's like, it's really not based on one video. It's like, hey, we're going to do it in an organic way because I never promote something that I don't use myself or wouldn't use for my business.

51:14Like I just will not. Have you done a campaign as a creator for something other than Crown Affair? Yeah, I mean, I have. It's been really funny. I actually did something with The RealReal last year. Love, that's so perfect for you. Was obsessed by the way. I feel like The RealReal is always in my top five apps. Yeah. They reached out. I'd done some videos on it before organically. Like I've done like RealReal graveyards on TikTok. I like share things that I found all the time like that green Chanel jacket that's in like every headshot I like hunted down for on the real real. So they reached out.

51:42I was honestly doing a closet clean out at the same time like hired a professional closet organizer. So it ended up being like a very organic thing and like it's the same. I want to do things that I really believe in. I've done a handful of them in the past and I think I'm very lucky that like this isn't my full-time job. Yes. So like it's not paying my rent. So for me it's all gravy and I think like by the way for creators out there listening if this is your full-time job, like do the thing. Yeah. Go, go build an architecture for yourself with goals and wake up every day. Like this is a business, you know?

52:12It is a business. Yeah. There's, I, you know, I'm not at that place yet where I'm like, I, my business is my business, you know, but it's, I love doing it and I've been so lucky to work with people. I'm sure if I was proactive about it, but obviously I get sent a lot of things, which is so nice. And I'm happy to support and like have friends who have brands. So majority of what I'm doing is like organic, but yeah I want I buy a lot of my own stuff yeah like I post on my sub stack like I share links of things that I'm buying yeah um and that feels like a more organic way to do it which by the way like we are both so privileged to be able to say I think that is why I have the engagement and the conversion I have because I've never had to post a product that like is to pay my rent and like like I am seriously we're both like knocking like I feel so blessed to be able to say that I think that's why like I'm so open about everything now because I'm like I want people to have the tools to go and do it and like the luck that I had and the blessings that I had but there's so many people that are in a position where they're like I have to take the brand deal which is why I'm so excited that there are funds out there now who are literally investing in creators to like get them to not have to do that so that they can just build an organic audience and eventually launch their own businesses.

53:24Like that to me is like the future. We are coming up for a time. I could talk to you forever, but I, okay, wait, I have one more topic that I have to dive into with you. Okay. We also, by the way, the thing I'm going to say about that too, is the truth is if I wanted to be a creator, I would have done it 10 years ago and I would be paying my rent with it, but it's not, I have a totally different skillset. So yeah. Anyone out there listening, who's like, I've worked for a decade and don't feel bad about not being able to pay your rent. We probably all would have been creators 10 years ago if we wanted to be.

53:49And also like, if it was like what it is today, It's insane nowadays. Different world. Anyway. Okay. One more category because I just really need some advice. Yes. Let's do it. And then we're going to do some rapid fire to wrap up. You travel a lot and you're a founder. You're also a wife. Like you're a holistic, multi-hyphenate creative entrepreneur. I travel like 150 days a year and I struggle. What tips do you have to work remotely while you're always on the go? I mean, it's so hard. I feel like putting an out of office on is something new that I'm doing. Okay. And it's not like I'm away. It's just like I'm not at my computer right now.

54:23I'm doing things in the real world. It helps take the pressure off of being in the inbox I think is key. And then honestly, just like doing the best you can to keep your routines, whether you journal, you work out, you go for a walk, whatever it is, like keep your routines as best as possible. Because I, yeah, I also travel about the same amount and those things keep me grounded. Yeah. I love that because I struggle with it so much. Just like staying on top of things is so hard. By the way, it's so hard right now. The amount of DMs, emails, text messages, notifications. I'm kind of drowning if I'm being honest.

54:58I'm like, I don't know where to give my attention. And I think out of offices used to be perceived as being shameful. It's actually good. And my friend Melanie Aguia used to have the most epic out of office at all time. I screenshotted it once. And I was like, she literally had an out of office that was like, I'm just not using email right now. Have you ever emailed Lauren Bostick? No, I haven't. You will get the most epic response. It is like, I am out of the office writing. Like here's who to contact when you need me. And I love that because it just sets the expectation where it's like, here's who to go for brand deals.

55:32Here's who to go for my podcast. Here's who to go to for this. And for me, I like want to try that, but I'm still so scared of like, what if I need to answer this email? But I think you just learn to like fuck around and find out. It's surrendering and protecting your time. Yeah. Which we both need to do more of. do. We're going to run each other. Okay. Rapid fire. Yeah, let's do it. Okay. Coffee, tea, or cocktail for the rest of your life. You can only choose one. Coffee. Okay. What's your order? Literally iced Americano black. Okay. People that die on the hill for a fucking black coffee. I'm like babes.

56:05I mean, it's not dessert. I get this thing to work. Okay. Movie, TV show, music, or podcast for the rest of your life. Wow. You just started dancing, so I'm going to go with music? No, I mean music because it's the most – it's the best. Music's the best. But that's like – I don't want to make that decision out of her. But it's music. What is the festival in the desert called? Burning Man. You're a Burning Man girly. Five-time Burn Man. Are you going this year? Yeah, of course I'm going this year. When is it? It's at the end of August before Labor Day. Oh, okay. Who is your favorite comfort creator?

56:37Oh, whoa. Pia Barancini. Love. Is that how you say her last name? I don't know, but I love that. Yeah, Pia's my comfort creator. She's so good. I don't know why that took me so long. There's just so many creators out there. Honestly, if I thought about there'd be a whole list, but she's just real, relatable, talking about what you said, like vulnerable, honest. I love watching her and her family and everything she's doing. Yeah, she's my comfort creator. Okay, love that. Favorite Sephora brand that is not your own? These are hard. This is really hard too. Can we pick a category? I was going to let you choose your own fantasy, but let's do two then.

57:10Okay. Fragrance. Oh, let's not do fragrance. Okay. Let's do makeup. Let's do makeup and skincare. Okay. I got to give this to my girl, Gucci Westman Atelier. Okay. I'd say like is probably - You're such a millennial. Am I? Yes. I mean, there's so many good brands in makeup though. I love so many. And then skincare, I'm really, I love Dew and Sophie Pabbitt. I don't even know Dew. D-I-E-U-X. They're both new to Sephora. A lot of the new ones are coming into Sephora, but there's so many good brands. I know there really is. Yeah. Are you guys a Sephora exclusive? Yes, in the sense of like bigger retail, but like our first retail partners are Violet Gray and Goop.

57:51And we work with like strategic, you know, more boutique retail. But yeah, Sephora is our big partnership. Anchor. Yeah. What is your favorite marketing campaign recently? Our finishing spray campaign was Next Level. Okay. Our team shot that in New York. It's a hairspray. None of our style, all of our styling products don't have alcohol in them. Will it help me with my flyaways? Yes. And will it make my hair greasy like this? No, it will not. It is literally magic in a bottle. Did you bring me some? I mean, it might be in there. And if not, we'll get you some. I'll buy it. The finishing spray and the finishing gel are incredible.

58:21But the finishing spray, what our campaign did, or our team did, was just like insane. It was like Thomas Crown Affair, sexy, 90s, incredible. Love. Yeah. What is your personal mission statement? My personal mission statement is to do the thing, inspire people to do the things that make them feel most like themselves. you are such a good CEO because I know that you were not expecting me to ask that question and you're like two seconds I got it and it was impactful Diana Cohen thank you so much for coming on you're amazing I want to be friends let's be friends yes let's get hot smart rich together it's done and thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom I'm so excited about this new chapter for you I think it's going to be incredible and I can't wait to watch your journey so where can people find you Diana Cohen on Instagram Diana with two n's okay uh TikTok talk Diana Cohen.

59:11And then my sub stack is diana.substack.com. And then all of the Crown Affair things. And we will link everything in the show notes. And maybe we can do a giveaway if you're down. Let's do it. Okay. Amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Of course.

From the publisher

Dianna Cohen, founder and ex-CEO of Crown Affair, joins Maggie Sellers to reflect on what it took to build the premium beauty brand redefining clean luxury in haircare and the future of founders as creators.

What You'll Hear In This Episode:

From working with Emily Weiss to building her own brand—Dianna’s evolution from beauty insider to beauty founder of Crown Affair
The early days of Crown Affair and how her time at Away shaped her approach to brand strategy and storytelling
Why Dianna stepped down as CEO—what she's doing at the brand now and how it unlocked a new creative chapter
The clean luxury playbook: how she built Crown Affair into a category-defining brand
Raising $15M and scaling to $20M in revenue—without compromising brand integrity
Maggie’s take on the identity shifts every founder faces—and the freedom of letting go
Dianna’s blueprint for building brands that feel personal, purposeful, and powerful

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This episode is sponsored by:

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Frate Returns - Tell them HSR sent you and learn more here

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