Lorna Luxe On Out-Earning her older husband, building an empire through grief, and why ultimate status symbols are a scam

34:36See? Two divorces. He did, yeah. Probably paying some version of alimony. No, he didn't. He just kind of paid and bounced. But also, he didn't have much care. Like, for a man in his mid-40s, you'd think he'd have, you know, like a bit of property or he had nothing because he'd given it all away in the divorces. So he was definitely starting from scratch. So you guys meet. Where are you at in your career? And how does this birth the business partners and co-founders of Lorna? So when he met me, I was cabin crew. I was doing long haul cabin crew, which meant I was out of the country three days a week, which I thought was very healthy for our relationship in the early days.

35:17Because that yearning is always a great foundation for a relationship, missing each other, not being too attached from day one. You really look forward to seeing each other and I can't wait to get back from wherever I was. But also really looking forward to being with my friends and having that gap. and then for those three or four years uh when we got married and settled down I was still flying I still crew so we had that I can't wait to see you that excitement never really left and then I left Virgin and I got I was quite unwell I'd battled anorexia and bulimia for most of my 20s and it really taken hold by my early 30s and I knew I needed to get well and at that point he was working and I wasn't and that was a new dynamic for us because I'd gone from being a very exciting woman that wasn't at home half the week to being permanently under his feet with no chat because I wasn't going anywhere didn't want to go out for food dinners or anything so it wasn't much fun and it was actually him that said to me you've got really boring like you need to sort yourself out because you're not you're no fun anymore you just sat at home not doing anything you need a job and he was like the the catalyst for me to get a little job and I did get a small job in customer service and I believe that my virgin training which was very customer service focused coupled with this new office job where I was actually working with steady people day to day and quickly understanding that actually my I'm a bit self-focused here I've always made everything about me and now I'm in an office full of women and they have all got their own really interesting lives and problems and like maybe the like the world doesn't revolve around me another ka-ching moment but I suddenly realized that actually life is is about community and about people not about little Lorna who's like an only child playing with the dolls on her own you've got to bring other people in to play the dolls with you so that was good time for me because I kind of got a bit confidence back and I remember around that same period of working in customer service I'd start on my Instagram and my Instagram grew quite quickly in the early days because I love pretty things I never went out and I had the time to sit at home on my phone and engage with people so my community was growing quite rapidly but also because I was so engaged with the DMs at the time Instagram would reward people that were being on the app so I was becoming as my reach was better which is crazy right and then yeah I feel as though that was the that became the beginning of Lorna Lux and that Instagram moment and John loved it because he's like wow you've got this interest that isn't about food like you've got something that you love doing that's got nothing to do with how you control your eating and at the time on Instagram I joined an Instagram group and it was called we love to brunch and it was a group of 20 like Instagram people all from different walks of life and we'd meet once a week and we'd go to a little coffee shop and we'd take very aesthetic photos and then we'd go for a walk around London and we'd take very aesthetic photos and well I had to eat didn't I because I've got to be like part of the gang so it was really bringing me my therapy was my early social media development and I was meeting other Instagrammers and we were sharing hacks and like so how do you grow and like oh I should do that and I really wanted to be good at something and I was I'm going to be good at this Instagram if I do anything else.

38:49And so that was the birth of my business. I mean, I didn't monetize my Instagram probably for about five years. I think my first paid partnership on Instagram, I had about half a million followers. So for the first 500K of community I built, there was no desire to make money from it. It was pure sharing stuff because I loved it. Maybe spending a bit of money on John's credit card so I could show my community what I'd got. My new handbag, my new clothes. and John just funded it because in his head she's getting better. Whatever it takes, I'm going to make this happen. So it was probably one of the most expensive therapy I've ever had really but it was brilliant fun and I've still got a lot of those handbags and I've kept all the friends from We Love to Brunch and some of them have got massive followings now on social.

39:39It makes me giggle because I think I remember us taking flat lays in a coffee shop you know 12 years ago but those communities i built in the early days i've kept so it's been really lovely to see actually i think that's what a common theme is for people that started doing this so long ago is like the money wasn't there initially right no money i think that it's from a pure passion of like finding something that you genuinely loved where were you at financially at that time where like you didn't have to think about the monetization because you were like, I don't actually need to worry about monetizing.

40:14So I didn't think it was possible to monetize. And that's the difference. It was gatekeeping at its best in the early days. No one was telling you. I didn't even understand how ads and revenue, I just didn't understand it because no one had ever taught me. I went to uni and did music. I had no idea about business. I say it to my mom now. I'm like, I've got no idea about business. And my mom's always like, of course you have. You literally do it every day. You're learning on the job and you hire people that do the bits that you don't know. And I thought very early on, I could see the value in it.

40:45I just didn't know what the value was at the time, whether it would be cash or experience. Remember, I'd come from a cabin crew background, so travel was alluring to me. So where, you know, I went on a trip with Prince Harry to Palm Beach for a Centre Barlet polo match. That's valuable to me. What an experience to be flown out because I'm an Instagrammer. so those were for me what was the draw of and the gifting because back then gifting was a big thing I remember getting my Daniel Wellington watch and my triangle bikini and like in our community of influencers it's like who got sent the triangle bikini versus who didn't and so those it sounds really naive now right but back then that's what it was about it was more about the growing of the community than it ever was about the monetizing of it but I knew the value was in the community still to this day there's no no one could make me do anything even I don't care how much it would cost if it would jeopardize the relationship I've got with my community that's the most valuable asset I have as a founder of business and as Lorna just in everything I do I think through the lens of what would my community want me to do they are the most important I know lots of people probably feel differently about me saying that and some would disagree but i just yeah it was it's been an interesting journey it's been really fun to grow a business because of having these you know luxuries now which is the community i've got they're the most powerful asset i can relate to that a lot because even with hot smart rich like people still i think now a big change with instagram is that the follower count doesn't necessarily equate to the monetization or the power of the community.

42:31For so long, I felt guilty monetizing it because I was like, but this is for the community and it's so mission driven. And I'm so curious for you, like, was there a moment where you either realized you had to start monetizing it as a business or the opportunity and the door got opened where you were like, wait, I can start to make money from this? It was very much that the door got opened, the opportunity came and I took it with both hands and I ran as fast as I could. but what I always looked at was well hang on if you're going to pay me for this what are we getting out of it because it was always a we right so I was like it's not it's no good just paying me like how's everyone that's on in following me and supporting me how are they going to benefit so very quickly I was that girl that was always like I want a discount code I want a deal I want a free gift with purchase I still to this day push for codes on pretty much every partnership I do and it makes my management laugh because sometimes they're like no they're not going to give you a discount code and I'm like well why not why can't we have something because value is about what value obviously I'm an entertainer right so I'm like content creation is entertainment but I do think there is that element of if you if you've got a position of authority or power in some way you've got to give it back you have to give it back I remember the worst was in lockdown where I was probably earning quite a lot more money than I probably would do now because everyone had a captive audience we're all glued to our phones couldn't leave our house and so I was getting these very lucrative partnerships and we're talking we're going from a girl that was earning nine grand a year at Virgin to being offered you know 50 grand for one partnership this was like big ticket stuff for me and I just remember thinking how can I said to John I've got guilt here I feel a bit uncomfortable about this I don't this isn't sitting right with me and I don't know what to do and so John was like well why don't you do some giveaways and I started doing these like a thousand pounds are a giveaway or I used to do a Christmas Chanel bag giveaway the girls at Chanel I'm sure they hated me because they knew I wasn't buying that bag for myself and I would buy Chanel bag each Christmas and it would be a giveaway and it was just really I don't know I appeased my guilt and I think that guilt maybe it's a British thing I maybe don't see that so much in these days but certainly this kind of female brought up on a council state you shouldn't you shouldn't be doing too well you're allowed to be successful you can't be too successful and so that is how I appeased it I don't do it so much now because I don't have the same thoughts and feelings around that but I've definitely had to workshop that I haven't had therapy on it but I would love to unpick why I felt so guilty because I wasn't doing anything particularly wrong I was doing everything right and that's why I was I was getting paid so well but it didn't feel fair in its own strange way I don't know what did you guys have to reach collectively as a couple from a financial perspective for John to be able to be like I'm going to leave a steady job at HSBC to leave and do this we got to a point where I said to him I earn in a month what you earn in a year.

45:41I could earn double in a month what you earn a year if you were available to take my pictures, come on the trip, do the thing. So I actually used the psychology of, well, you're actually holding me back. And we know John doesn't want to do that. John is like the softest, most, you know. So he was like, really, I'm holding you back. That was his fear. And that was the moment he went, right, I'm going to get myself, I'm going to exit this business. So he didn't want to leave. He'd been in the bank 30 years. he did not want to leave that job by just walking out and going, hi, byes, I'm going now, see you tomorrow.

46:13We'll meet for a drink next year. He wanted to get a redundancy or have a proper exit strategy. So it took him about a year and a half, which was painful to me. And my most frustrating thing is that he retired in the December. He got diagnosed with cancer in the January. so we literally had three weeks of normalcy where he'd retired and wasn't having to go to hsbc three four days a week and i was like why didn't we do that sooner because then obviously you know anyone will know who's been through cancer the treatments that we never really got that you know retirement that he was looking for we never got it and i think that his last three years before he died were a bit like him going right we haven't got longer we need to really put some into this and that is why I believe I launched two businesses because the reality is I should have probably launched one put more energy into that before I launched the second one but we kind of were racing together because I wanted him to see them I wanted him to see these visions that we've had on our manifestation board that we've talked about for years he needed to see it so yeah Yeah, I don't know why we didn't do it sooner.

47:31That was his decision. But yeah, he never really got to enjoy it. So he was not officially in the business for actually as long as I thought he was. No, but he was my business partner because he took all my photos. He helped me create my content. He drove me up to London at four in the morning so we could get the street before no one arrived. He did all the things. He was just an everything. Yeah, I used to steam my clothes. We travelled a lot together, which I'm really missing now. I really liked that. One thing about me, and I don't know, I don't see this with other founders, so maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I like to play.

48:11I like holidays and I like fun. And my mum always says, what I love about you is that you always make fun out of whatever you're doing. You will not find me doing anything if I'm not enjoying myself. I'll walk out. I don't care. I will not put myself in a room where I'm not having a good time. So is that a luxury of the business that I've built? Probably. But I think it's been fundamentally quite important to me as a person as well, because what happens when I'm not happy? I had an eating disorder that took me out for a few years. So my mental health is really dependent on how good I'm feeling and nothing functions if I'm not feeling good.

48:51My business goes to pot. I can't create. I can't come online and talk to people when I'm feeling like crap. I just want to go to bed. So it was very important that when we were building our business, we were also building lots of playtime. And so that was really what we did from probably 2016. Lots of travel, lots of giggles if he drove me into london we'd always go for a wine afterwards you know there was always a promise of a wine and a bit of shopping and i think that's quite important for me and i'm not ashamed to admit that this is actually something i've seen online only recently i actually love this creator do you know valeria lipavetsky how do you do okay so her husband gary who we love as a couple um he just made a video saying that when my wife is happy who is in a similar dynamic actually like she is the creator and actually the business owner like i know valeria very well and she is extremely smart she is an investor she is a business owner but this video was her husband being like if my wife is not happy the business does terribly and you just said the exact same thing like how do you balance that with needing to know certain details about business that is not always going to be fun, like having to fire people, having to talk about bills that are needing to get paid, all of the things that are actually the worst parts of building a business.

50:19Because for me, I can tell you, like, I love to know those things, but I can't really know them until 5 p.m. because I need to be able to get through the day and then deal with the shitty things at the end of the day or my whole mood is killed. For you, what have you noticed about balancing having to wear that business entrepreneurial hat and then having to be the creator and have that play during the day. I think I'm probably very good at compartmentalizing my life because I wear a lot of different hats anyway and I have a mindset that is always do things at the last minute. So if I've got a job coming up in a week's time, I've got the product and maybe need to do a piece of content, you bet your bottom dollar I'm going to film it this morning and it's got to be handed in today.

51:06That's just how I approach things. I'm the worst person for the job that I do. How I have got any success, I will never know because I do everything wrong. So I am a last minute dot com girly. I'm not always face up to things. I'm a bit of a hide under the blanket and hope it goes away. But I do always get away with it. I think because everyone in my orbit, in my business world at least, I am on good terms with. So they know my weaknesses, my flaws, my frailties, but they also know my strengths and they know that I'm a great leader. I'm not a great manager. My team who are watching this will attest to, but I'm a good leader and I know what leadership is about and it's about inspiring people and building them up and giving them opportunities to grow in their own way and giving them freedom and flexibility.

51:51So when I need it back they give it me back in spades and I need it because I am not somebody that is getting up at 5am and having two cups of coffee and emails and this and that I'm not I like to wake up about 10ish and I want snuggles with the dog but I'm also awake at two in the morning replying to my DMs and check you know checking on my community so listen you've got to make it work for you and because I am self-employed I use that luxury of making it work for me in the way that makes it work for me. But how I operate isn't a benchmark for how I'd expect anyone else to. It just suits me. I don't have kids like Valerie.

52:30I don't have a lot of people relying on me for day-to-day stuff. But then I do have people relying on me to pay their, you know, bills. So I have that responsibility and I respect it an awful amount. So I would never drop the ball is what I'm trying to say. but I am a juggler of the ball and I sometimes I'm a bit naughty and I don't always have my homework in on time but I do think that I'm forgiven because I'm a pretty decent person and yeah that seems to be how I've got away with it so far when John was the co-founder in the business day-to-day was he doing a lot of that typical stuff yes we did everything he did all of our admin, all the emails, all the dealing with people, all the finances.

53:16And I think what's been really challenging this year is that where I've had to take all that on board, which I think I'm doing pretty okay at, bite of size chunks each day, I handle another thing. I've noticed there's things that weren't done correctly, baby decisions that shouldn't have been made in the way they were, because I think his last year where he had brain tumour and there was a lot going on, he was in the smartest decisions and I'm kind of having to like figure that out for myself now and I'm like why are we doing that how much is that costing why are we paying that for that we don't even need it and so yeah I should have taken more responsibility off him sooner and I'm you know ashamed I didn't and I think he was very worried about me in fact the days before he died he was panicked about that He was like, you're not going to be able to cope.

54:08I'm really worried about you. Well, I am coping. So I am proof that, you know, if I can cope, anyone can cope. Because I am daft as a brush and I am not the sharpest tool in the box. But what I am good at is delegating. I can spot a great person from a mile off. So my team are shit hot. And I think that is my, probably my saving grace as a business owner. that I've got good people around me in every aspect as well, not just the people that work for me, but the people that I work with, the friends that I associate with, the founders that I quite hang out with. I've been really lucky in that sense.

54:51And I'm so curious for you as someone who can really speak to this now having to take all of that on is like, would you wish you did things differently to understand it a bit more so that you weren't in the place where you're now having to figure it out? I think financially I'd be in a lot stronger position had I done that and learned more about the business two, three, four years ago, even simple stuff like you say like paying bills and stuff. But what's been really good for me is that from since February I've been on a bit of a crash course of learning and it's given me a lot of confidence and it's kept me distracted.

55:24So actually I probably needed it and I'm really empowered by the fact that I know exactly where all my money is even if I haven't got any. At least I know where it isn't And I feel very secure in making decisions about my financial commitments over the next year because I know exactly where everything is because I'm in charge of it now. And it is a really empowering position to be in for anyone, regardless of what you're up to, to feel fully across your own finances and your own decision making. That's flipping exciting. This makes me feel like I could do anything because what's going to hold me back?

55:59because John's told me I can do anything I dream and believe in, I can make happen. Now it's just a case of getting from A to B, right? And am I going to enjoy the journey? Because I have to enjoy myself when I'm doing it. So that's got, like I say, I'm taking stock at the minute. I'm reading the room. I'm figuring out where I want to like jump in, where I want to hold back. I'm ditching friends that aren't valuable to me. So it's actually made me assess other elements of my life. so what started out as a bit of a financial shit show is now it's almost kind of eclipsing everything and I'm like well hang on if I don't if I can change that about my finances maybe I can I don't really like that person that I'm friends with maybe I need to ditch them or that person that works for me isn't actually very good at their job so maybe I need to not work with them again and it's just all of these elements of my life that I'm starting to reassess that and the fact that I'm 44 in two weeks time and I think this I think it was Oprah that had said like 44 was like her best year and I'm like yeah maybe this is like the year where I actually you know get my get a new lease of what I'm doing and become more in charge of my destiny I hope so I think it's actually the reality of like when you and this is why this show exists is like financial literacy is so different than financial freedom and it's sexy when you actually understand things and like you're in the numbers for me I find real enjoyment out of like checking my bank account in the morning checking my credit cards like I spotted fraud on my credit card the other day with like two dollar Facebook charges and there was like 12 of them and I was like I don't think I'm doing two dollar and I investigated and it ends up being fraud and even that small win of like just feeling like, oh, my God, I just I did something even though I didn't do anything at all.

57:47It made me feel so in control of things. And so I would ask you for someone that's feeling so confused and lost. What is your words of wisdom to them of like what it feels like when you are in control and you actually have awareness about what is going on with your financial situation? Well, certainly, like you just said, it's a control, isn't it? And I'm someone big on control, right because all of my 20s my mental health was about trying to take control so imagine the elations I get like you when I know where everything is and what's going on and actually I think if I look back to my Instagram when I first joined Instagram I was really fascinated by the back end so I used to study the growth and I used to study the reach and the likes and the impressions and I was really titillated by that information and now I look at it and I'm Actually, that was the precursor to what I'm doing now.

58:39Just it's Shopify back end. It's, you know, my businesses. It's how many sales, what's the average, you know, spend per basket. And actually, it's the same kind of journey. Just like you say, this literacy is really empowering. It's not boring. This is what I was always taught. Oh, it's boring that you don't want to do that. John used to say it to me. Oh, don't you worry about that. It's boring. You'll be bored by that. Okay, then it's boring. I won't do it. Now I'd have a choice. no one else is going to do it for me and it's not boring it's quite interesting and it galvanizes me in ways that nothing else really will it gets me out of bed in the morning I don't I'm sure you're the same but I look at yeah sometimes look at my bank account and I'm like well that's not going to do I'm going to have to sort something out and um yeah it's making me quite ambitious in a different way so I think financial literacy for anyone is really important and a bit of financial independence I don't think I would share my banking or anything with anyone again but that's a luxury right that I've got and I'd quite like to not have a mortgage with someone again and just be in charge my own gaffe and keep it separate but again that is a luxury that I have been afforded because of my marriage with John I was going to ask is that because you don't think that anyone would be like a john in the future or is it because of just a learning experience of like you even didn't like having it all tied together with someone i just don't think i'll meet another john i really don't i think they kind of break the mold with him i just think it'd be a really i don't see how anyone's going to match up to that in terms of how he provided for me as such a robust loving you know unashamedly so you know he wore his heart on his sleeve but he was just like I love this one with all my heart I'm gonna do whatever it takes whatever she needs I'm gonna give it to her I just don't see many people doing that so the chances of me meeting one and then falling in love with me and me falling in love with them as well feels like a big ask whereas what I can take charge of I'm pretty much guarantee are running my businesses and building my empire like I can I can concentrate on that and I can see the journey that it's going to take and how it's going to fulfill me.

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1:03:43This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on Marketplace, and there it was, the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message, and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for. From a browse to a bike ride, this summer, find more on Facebook. I feel like this will help so many people by asking about this, but a lot of people are afraid to ask hard questions, right? What would you say to someone that doesn't like to have hard conversations and would prefer to put the covers over their head and just, like, push the can down the road?

1:04:27Well, there's more than one way to get that information out of someone, isn't there? Because you can always talk about it in terms of, like, what do you think they're doing? Does that make, would you do it like that? But certainly with John and I, there was never uncomfortable conversations. We're just not that people. we could talk about anything and we did and so I think facing things head-on like death we didn't want to talk about it so we were like we know it's going to happen but let's just not chat about that and it was only very close to the end where he said to me I think he said something like how long do you think I've got and I was like well how long do you think you've got and he was like I think I've got a few months and I knew he had maybe two weeks he had he actually She had a week and a half in that.

1:05:08And I said, yeah, I think you're right. And I think that all I knew about John was that he wanted me there with him to the end. And we didn't need to talk about anything else. I wish we'd talked about more finances stuff. I didn't even have access to our bank account when he died. I had to ring up Lloyd's TSB and be like, how do I get my money? Who were incredible, by the way. but the point is we didn't have those uncomfortable conversations and I think that's where I'm learning I'm not perfect because I should have had those chats with him but we didn't want to have them and I think he was the same I think he just thought you know it won't happen so yeah I haven't got any good advice for that because I never took it I think that is the advice like you sharing that and just being honest about it so that other people can learn from your experience is actually the advice.

1:06:06And I think that like, it's just so funny. Like I can just tell the people I like fucking love when they come and sit down in the seat because they're just so themselves. And I think one of the things everyone said about you as I was prepping for this is that they were like, Lorna is so luxury and so chic and so beautiful, but she's so relatable and she's so down to earth. And I think even just in the way that you're sharing, it is so evident that is just who you are. And that is a hard thing to have in this space when you do have beautiful things. And you, like, I watched the video of your house, the ghost house.

1:06:42And I'm like, to be able to be aspirational and to be relatable is actually a very hard balance that I don't think people do well. And you do exceptionally well. So even though you're sharing some of the things that maybe you wish you had done differently, there's a lot of things that I think like make you who you are and actually is like very motivating even for me. Picking yourself back up, starting over, like having to almost rebuild your life now. How do you think about that? Well, I don't take it lightly because it is a big thing that I've got to do, but I don't look at it as like a long time.

1:07:25I've got to get from there to there. So it's kind of a daily struggle. And I'll tell you what really caught me out. Probably the first two months after John died, I think grief hadn't hit me quite the same as I thought it would. And I thought, well, I'm doing all right. Like, you know, I'm sad. I'm really missing John. But, you know, I'm getting up. I'm putting my slap on. I'm getting out there. I'm making decisions. And, you know, we're selling dresses and it's all going hunky-dory and I'm going to be fine. And then I went to a friend's wedding with a pal of mine. And this day was just not horrendous.

1:07:58It was the most beautiful wedding ever. But it was like horrendous because I was like watching all these people have a life that I'm, mine's collapsed, right? And I'm watching the dad's speech and they're, you know, they've just got married. They've got the whole life ahead of them. And I'm like, my life's absolutely gone to pot. And they're just starting their beautiful journey. And mine's just been taken away from me. And I felt incredibly guilty because I thought I shouldn't be feeling these feelings. and I should be just, you know, excited for them. And it's not fair that I should be having this woe is me, you know, feeling sorry for myself.

1:08:30But I couldn't snap out of it. And it really set a bit of a, I'd say for the two weeks after that, it really like slowed me down to the point where I had to do some filming and I was like, I can't do this. I'm sorry, I can't. And I messaged my manager. I was like, I'm really sorry, but I have got no interest in coming online and flogging a moisturiser. All I want to do is go to bed and eat carbs. And she said to me, I think that's what you need to do. And I did. And I just took each day bite-sized chunks. And my mum would be like, do you know what you should do today? I think you should order some nice food on Deliveroo.

1:09:01And that's like your job for the day done. And so I was like childlike, you know, trying to function. And that's what grief does. It like knocks you out. It's like being punched in the gut, but you don't know when it's coming. So you can't quite prepare for it. And my life now is about building some kind of armour to manage it so that when I get punched I can handle it and isn't that kind of what I've been doing in my whole career getting you know knockdowns rejections you can't do this you can't do that I'm just getting back up and carrying on so I've got I know I've got it in me I just need to get stronger at it so I'm gonna have to build that from scratch but it's just yeah it takes you out and it's like I love being in control so I'm like I don't want to feel out of control I don't want to feel like this it's so frustrating because it's really quite debilitating and I don't see many people online talking about that element of grief and I'm not confident enough yet to be able to go online and give advice about it but I'm certainly like watching how it's impacting me and thinking flipping heck didn't see that coming so what are we in now five five and a half months since the last jump so coming up to that six months and yeah I'm just um up and down still in every element of my my life I think that's one of the things that I I always think about when I'm doing an interview is like how can we really help people with this and I think that people will experience grief as they are building these businesses and I can't give advice I've never experienced grief like this and my question to you would be you have multiple businesses you are a business yourself you have a fashion brand that you invested six hundred thousand pounds to um you have a beauty brand how do you manage a business and manage people when you are experiencing extreme grief like losing your husband I mean the it really was a group of about 10 people that took the reins and really stepped up to the plate and I think they could see that I needed it before I realized I needed it so I am not although I have multiple businesses and I'm like the face of those businesses no way would my businesses still be going if I didn't have the team that I have around me and how they were able to function and operate without me being present.

1:11:34What was a learning curve was that with LAS, I was very much the face of the brand, still am very much the face of the brand. With 98 Beauty, you probably won't see my face on that website. You hardly ever see it on social. I am not the face of 98 people. If you know, you know that I am, you know, one of the core investors in it. But fundamentally, I am not, it's not relying on me to generate sales. The day-to-day does not rely on me. And I think that's been a really important learning curve because what that does is it gives me freedom in terms of time and perspective, and it frees up for me to do other things.

1:12:14Whereas with LAS, I'm so part of it that it's either going to have to change and pivot. And that's something that I'm assessing now, right? In my assessment period. Or it's going to have to fold, which I don't really want to do. Or we're just going to have to really think hard about what that looks like for me and how much commitment I'm willing to give that business to make it the success I want it to be. But one thing about me, I don't like failure. It doesn't sit well with me that I don't like it. I don't enjoy it. I'm such a Leo as well. Like I don't know if you're into horoscopes. I am. I am such a Leo.

1:12:49And I only like doing things I'm good at. And I need to be ego stroked and told that I'm doing great. And I am the first person to jump out when I can spot that something's going to go wrong. So yeah, I'm definitely learning a lot about my businesses and how different they operate. And the pros and cons of doing both. you know all this kind of founder-led content we see at the minute so many brand founders are like faces we spoke about this at the beginning is that necessarily the be all and end all will it obviously speed up your business in the early days yet because people buy from people but fundamentally how willing are you to be committed in that to that degree because when you want to extricate yourself from it the more front of house you are the harder it is and um yeah it's been quite enjoyable actually doing 98 and not having to be the face really enjoyed that you said earlier that you launched two businesses probably at a similar time because you wanted john to see those yeah if you could go back would you have launched one and which one would it have been it was important to launch fashion first for me because my community connected with me on that level.

1:14:07I'd had my own edits with other brands for multiple years. I had a really good steer on who I was going to hire to build that business from day one. And I felt very confident with that team launching what we did and throwing lots of money at it. What I would say is that with 98, I had all the learnings from LAS, which I wouldn't have had. And I quickly understood that actually I needed business partners that brought different parts of the package together. So whereas with LAS, it was just literally me and then hiring lots of people to do various different things. With 98, I'm in business with people that offer big skill sets that I can't even get involved with in terms of like R &D and science and whatnot.

1:14:49And that's really saved us as a business a lot of money. It's allowed us to grow a lot quicker. We're already moving out of our fulfillment, 98, into a bigger fulfillment. The LAS is still in the original one so that's the kind of difference in scale we're talking about and I think there's a passion and a yearning with 98 that because of my hair loss and my alopecia journey I really feel quite passionate about it and I really care about developing products that I couldn't buy we can all buy clothes right so then it's the LAS brand is about my taste and about what I love and I'm wearing in LAS today and I love it and I'm a girly girl.

1:15:28With 98, there's more, it feels more like I'm on a bit of a journey here to do something groundbreaking, which is keeping me really interested and I get excited about it. I get excited thinking about it. And I think before we started filming, I said to one of the girls, I want to take this brand global. I want to be in America. I want this, I want our HydroBond mask to be the mask that everyone uses. Like one One is sold a minute globally and everyone loves it because it's so flipping good. And that's going to take a lot of welly from me and the team. We're getting there. We are working hard at the minute.

1:16:08Fundamentally, I also just love beauty because it's like a habitual product that you have to use and buy all the time. Can't get away from it. What do you think it takes to just get through this season that you're in? Because it is so fresh. Grit. and a lot of self-care, quite a few bottles of sauvignon blanc. I stopped reading as well, which is awful for me because I love reading. That is my hobby. And I just stopped. I'm always on my Kindle. And then about maybe only a week or so ago, I picked my Kindle up again and I gave a book recommendation on stories. And I got all these messages. Oh, my God, thank God I've been waiting for you to recommend a book.

1:16:50I've not had a good spicy read in months. And I was like, yeah, I used to do that a lot. I used to recommend all these books that I loved reading. And again, I'm taking a hobby into a monetization because I'm writing a spicy novel. Don't know when that's going to launch, but that's another element of me turning a hobby into something I can make cash out of, but I'm not doing it for that. I'm just doing it because I really want to do it. And I think I'll be quite good at it. But yeah, those are the minute where I'm in this grieving process. I'm just trying to claw back all the things that make me happy.

1:17:22And so yeah, reading is one of those and seeing my mates and travel. I've not been really away very much since John died. So making plans to travel again. And that's really what the plan is. It's not really businessy at the minute. I mean, we are robust in our business plans, but it's not just me, right? So there's a whole team of people working on it. I'm not fully 100 % back at work yet. I actually think that's like what people need to hear though, because business is not always going to go the way you want it to. And I always say it's like you have to take a step back to take 10 steps forward.

1:17:56And that feels so scary because especially when your family, your livelihood, everything relies on you, it can feel horrible to just sit and be still. How does it actually feel when you're in those moments? Are you even thinking about the livelihood aspect of it? Always. always thinking about that because there's other people that rely on me to pay the bills. I quite like sitting still. I recently went to a panel talk and a photographer said, we don't, the creativity comes when we're bored. We don't get bored enough. And I didn't ever get bored. But probably the month after John died, I didn't really leave the house, didn't really do anything.

1:18:39Didn't do my makeup or hair, didn't film any content. And I got a bit bored, but it got my juices flowing and I did start to think when I go back to work I'd really like to do that and I'd have a go at this I need to explore that so I think with those moments you need to sit in them and almost like luxuriate in them and force them we're so consumed by there's so much stuff going on isn't there the noise and actually sitting still is probably where you make your best decisions so yeah it's important to me that at the minute how has grief changed your relationship with money in general to things and stuff.

1:19:16I know, I don't really care about stuff in the same way. That's so true. So like my house, I'm moving back to my house, right? And all I care about now is me. We've got an office and I want to turn it into a bedroom because I want more people to come and visit. The old me would have been thinking about any spare cash I had, I'm going to buy a new handbag and buy some new clothes. whereas now I'm like no if I've just got enough cash set aside I can probably build a nice little bedroom there and then I reckon I can like host you know I can do things so it's making me think more about emotional connections rather than stuff and not wanting to hold on to stuff and all of my diamonds I was you know massively rocks on my both my hands they're all in safety deposit am I gonna wear I don't feel safe wearing that kind of stuff anymore I'm a bit of a sitting duck really in that you know I've got a big house everyone knows about they know where I am granted it's like fort knox but you know if someone really wanted to have a bash at stealing my diamonds and my birkins they know where i am so i don't have the same yearnings to have those things anymore because i don't feel particularly safe having them so i'm luxuriating now in my emotional attachments my friends the things that people can't steal from me

1:20:33i was never ever thinking about this word before i met my husband and he seems to be obsessed with it. And I'm so curious for you, legacy, right? Like you build these things and all you have, my husband calls them as your eulogy virtues, things that people will say about you or the legacy that you live behind. Whereas resume virtues are things where it's like, I wanted to work at Goldman Sachs or I wanted to do this, or I wanted to earn this much money. And I'm very curious for you as you start this new path of starting over and taking a second and then thinking about ambition and thinking about how you feel, what does that word legacy now mean to you?

1:21:14To be honest, it's always meant the same to me, which was that my legacy and John's legacy was all about how do we make people feel? What were the things we enjoyed doing? Because we were very social animals. So my legacy, as much as I like to say to you and for the internet to think that I'm this like, you know, very ambitious woman and I've got big brand that's global success. I would like to build my big brand that's a global success to sell it and then probably disappear from the internet with enough cash to fund lots of brilliant parties and holidays. And that would be my legacy where people that know me in real life would go, yeah, that was, she was, she was good fun.

1:21:59I enjoyed her company. Red or right, giggle X, Y, and Z. What is life for if it's not for living fully and fun? I don't want to be a workaholic forever. I don't mind doing the graft, but I do not want that to be, I'm not going to be a Kris Jenner. I'm not going to be working into my 70s. I want to have fun. And this bit is the bit that's going to get me there. I love that Okay Lorna Are you ready for some fun rapid fire? I am yeah I'm a little nervous about this When I've seen other people I'm like I don't know what I'd go for But we'll see how we get on Okay Lorna What is the last thing You put on your credit card?

1:22:39I don't have a credit card You were ready for that answer No I don't I genuinely I don't have one So Last thing I bought Yes Was a four poster bed Yesterday Oh, I saw this in your stories. Because I've got three bedrooms but only two beds. And I was like, if I'm going to make that a third bedroom, I'm going to need a bed for the third room. But that can be an old one because I want a new one. So I've got a new bedstead coming. Taking six months, though, to build. But I'll have it by Christmas. And is that the most expensive last thing that you just bought? Yeah, it was a lot. You can only pick one for the rest of your life.

1:23:18Running a personal brand or a beauty brand. Oh. That's really hard. I would say where I'm right now, I'm more successful at running a personal brand. But the goal is to run a beauty brand. Love that. What is the purchase you regret most? Every Birkin I ever bought. Why? Because you're such a target with it. I can't take it out anywhere. What's the point of it? Can't wear it anywhere. And the other one's all got stolen. So I've got one left. And I look at it with contempt. because it's this thing that I've got that I can't really wear, and it cost me a fortune, and it'll probably get robbed. And it's just stressful.

1:24:01What is the luxury experience that is worth every penny? Holidays. I love a good holiday. Like any luxury hotel. What's the best luxury hotel you've ever been to? I mean, I could sit and talk about this till the cows come home. I would say some of the best luxury hotels I've been to have been in Italy, particularly on the Amalfi Coast. I love Santa Catarina. There's a Belmond in Ravello that's pretty shit hot. Italians just get it right. The food, the weather, the vibes, the chat, the hot waiters. It's just all going on. If you had to live in a city in America, what would it be? But it cannot be Los Angeles or New York City.

1:24:40So I have obviously traveled a lot in America with it being cabin crew. And I really like Chicago. I liked the energy of Chicago. But it's very windy. And I really liked San Francisco. But it's very hilly. But over the wind and the hills, I'd probably go for the hills because the climate's a bit better in San Fran. I love that. That is not what I... You, like, had that answer right away. Yeah, I just love America. I'd love to live in America. I actually had a tarot reading say that I'm going to live in California. And this was a long time ago. And I'm kind of thinking it might actually happen now.

1:25:15Not this year, then. Wow. Okay. What do you believe every woman needs to have in place financially? before she needs it? I'd love to be the girl that says a pension, but I don't actually have a pension, although I am about to have one. Okay. But I would like to say pension, really. And I wish I'd started that 20-odd years ago when I first started working. Okay, so two other questions that we ask everyone. You probably know this if you listen. If you could tell yourself one HSR love note for the rest of your life, which is basically an affirmation, what would it be? probably going back to what we said at the very beginning about the fact that I can get through anything I'm a survivor right so it would probably be something around that kind of survival like you can do this you are going to be okay you're going to be okay and um I've needed other people to say that to me a lot recently so it's quite an important thing for me and if you had to tell of the season of your life, Lorna, what would it be called?

1:26:17This season? Mm-hmm. Probably The Shit Show. It's what I would call it. It's been tough. Well, thank you so much for coming on and talking about it. I know it's going to help so many people, and I'm obsessed with you. I was before, and everyone that came on my show was like, Lorna, Lorna, Lorna, and I was just like, oh, my God, I need to meet this woman. So thank you for everything. And where can people find you, and how can AHSR help you right now? Yeah, so if you're looking for me, I'm now Lorna because I was Lorna Lux. So I'm just Lorna now on Instagram and TikTok. And my brands are 98 Beauty.

1:26:54If you're in the market for a really good hair mask, I'm your gal. And then LAS, which is my fashion brand. I'm wearing it today. It's beautiful. And I did have a wine as well, but it sold out. And because we did it with John, I don't think we're going to do it again. But yeah, I did have a rose because I love wine. didn't really talk about that today no but that's tonight we'll have a glass yeah that's my other passion is drinking wine and how can it does our help you oh what in terms of people say random stuff like what someone said um buy a coffee for a stranger today that's cute i like that i've done that before as well okay when i'm coming out of prep yeah buy someone a hot chocolate people love a hot chocolate it's underrated it's better than coffee yeah it's underrated and it's like a bit more like hmm I didn't realise I forgot how much these how good these are it gives you childhood vibes yeah I really like that Lorna thank you so much for coming on we love you no thank you

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