Maggie Sellers On $50M Lawsuits, Fake Birkins, And The Future Of Beauty (Ft. Katie Sellers)

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1:02In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it.

1:12Angels, welcome back to another episode of Hot, Smart, Rich, the podcast. Today we are trying something new again. I feel like every single episode I've said that. But I think that, like I've said before, is the best thing about starting something new is you get to test stuff around. And I am here with Katie because we have gotten a lot of requests to go more in depth and faster to market with our favorite consumer news stories and what is going on in consumer news, pop culture, and the emergence of brand, the creator economy, and venture capital, which is really the intersection that I have loved to sit in for the last few years.

1:53So we are recording this on Monday, and this episode will be released on a Wednesday. And you'll notice that I have a new background. And this is the first time I am recording in my new house, which is amazing. And then Katie, who is joining me, is also recording at her house in Toronto. So we makeshifted these studios. I wish you guys could see a photo. Maybe we'll put it up on our Instagram stories on the Hot Smart Rich account when this episode comes out, just so you can see like the beginning of something because it is so not professional and it is so not put together. And I think that's like the beautiful thing about this is it's, it's truly like from the ground up.

2:40Um, and I'll be honest, like the podcast has gone super well since we started that we did get a lot of interest from different podcast networks, which has been amazing. We also, like we've told you guys, have gotten signed to the Spotify creator program. Just so happens that as soon as we got signed, they decided to do construction on Spotify studios in downtown LA. So they've been amazing at just like helping with figuring out different studio space across the city. But really for us, it was like, this is supposed to feel like a really amazing entry and super digestible and can be for anybody no matter where they are in their career.

3:20So like, why wouldn't we want to just do it in the comfort of our own home? So it's more inviting. So here we are. Here we are. I'm very excited. Katie, how are you feeling? I'm feeling good. I'm trying to, you know, like keep my HSR energy up and my tone of voice up. Can I tell you, like I literally started crying probably 20 minutes before we filmed this. I kind of figured. Currently, listen, I made this in my Kim H ambassadorship video, which is like, these are all amazing things that are happening all at the same time. And it is so overwhelming. And it's hard because I want to feel like, I mean, I am so grateful for all these opportunities and all the things that are happening.

4:06But as somebody who gets overwhelmed, as somebody with anxiety, And I would argue somebody that probably doesn't have those things would still with all of these major life transitions feel like overwhelmed, right? Totally. And so I was right now, my makeshift office is where the baby's room will be. And there's still like there's no baby right now. Yeah, there's no baby. Maggie Sellers is pregnant. No, eventually. But I have, we bought the house furnished. And so in the baby room, there's still like not a crib, but like a three-year-old bed. There's a bunch of dressers. It's like a babied room.

4:45And I put my makeshift desk in there. I have been trying to make it work. And then when I was like trying to film this morning, I was just like, oh my God, this is not going to work. And so I just pivoted and went to one of the other rooms. But like I said, grateful for everything that's happening and for this amazing house, but it's still in that phase of like everything just feels like a lot to do. Yeah. Well, today, like I said, we're going to be talking about kind of like our five major things that I was noticing about just major consumer behavior trends. But like you guys have been loving about the podcast so far, we talk a lot about money.

5:20We talk a lot about consumption. So I wanted to ask you, Katie, like I ask every guest, what is your latest consumption habit? So your largest last purchase and then just your last purchase. Yeah. Well, I was thinking about this because my last one was Botox. and I actually had someone say to me over the weekend that I was talking to them. They were like, oh, you're part of the Botox crew now. And I was like, lol. I did buy a new iPhone recently. Like the iPhones, like they know when you need a new one because the storage is full and then the phone just like crops out. That was my biggest purchase.

5:51And then my most recent purchase was the weather in Toronto was like wild and I had to randomly buy like sun hats for Warren for daycare. This purchase is the biggest hostess gift hack. So whenever you are hosting and somebody brings flowers, obviously it's lovely, but it's also an inconvenience. Like I hate to say it, but you're just like, wait, I have to now go find a vase that fits this, cut the stems, put it in. Like I'm hosting people right now. So I always love when I'm prepared to go over to someone's house. And we went over to my best friend, Terry's house last night with her husband and her baby.

6:28by the way, she cooked Easter dinner by herself. She has a baby. Her nanny was off. So I was like, I know she's going to be super busy. And so I got this beautiful bouquet of flowers delivered. I ordered them on Thursday. They came literally an hour before we got there. They were already on the table in a vase. And I was like, Oh my God. And she was so appreciative because she was like, you offered something to the experience, but without having to inconvenience me. And that is my biggest hack is like to make things easier for people. Um, so that was my last purchase. That was last night and it was remote, I guess.

7:03And then my last biggest purchase obviously was this K beauty experience that I did when I was in Korea and that was$1 ,800. And that was obviously a large chunk of money, but compared to what it would be in the States, it was, it's like over probably 15 or 20 grand worth of treatments done for$1 ,800. I was going to say it's like, 20 % of the cost. Like it's a fraction. Cause I was even thinking about when I went to the med spa for my stuff and I was like, this is, I should be going to Korea. They have a lot to say about K beauty. And that was the big topic of our newsletter. And I do not think that this is a trend at all.

7:41I think this is a category that is going to become mainstream, but it's really interesting because I posted this video about going to the Korean med spas and the amazing experience that I had. And at the same time, a woman, this influencer or not, she's not even an influencer. She's actually a ceramic from San Francisco, a ceramicist from San Francisco. Her name is Esther. She actually lost the vision in her left eye after a Juva look treatment when she was in South Korea. The videos that we posted were on the same day. And I think like one, I just want to say to her, like, I am so sorry that this happened to you.

8:22That is traumatic. And I watched the full video. She, unfortunately, while she was getting the treatment done, she actually said to the doctors, she said, I can't see out of my left eye. Yeah. From watching her video, there is something called a two hour golden hour treatment, which if something happens like this, you have a very short window after it to hopefully find a reverse or some sort of thing that you can do to fix what's happened to you. And the doctors just reassured her that everything was fine. And so obviously, I went to a Korean med spa and had the complete opposite experience. And my experience felt extremely different than that.

9:07I feel like my vision had gone. I would not be waiting and not going to the hospital. I'm not putting any blame on her by any means. I'm actually putting blame on the provider that did this where like that's on them that they didn't take extraordinary precautions after a patient has alerted to them that something is seriously wrong. And that I think can happen no matter where you are in the world. Right. And I think that's, it was a really good reminder to me that it's like, I'm not, not going to go back to Korea to do medical treatments. Cause I didn't have that experience, but I think it was a good reminder.

9:45And I am a little bit of a hypochondriac where it's like always having a plan B like thought through plan of like, what are you going to do? So you don't think it's going to happen to you. And then it does happen to somebody like you are somebody that you know. So it was a really interesting parallel. And I started seeing a bunch of comments on my video of like, Oh my God, I'm seeing at the same time I'm seeing a girl lose her vision. And I think it is a good reminder where it's like, it can happen anywhere. And it really is around like making sure that you are the shepherd of your body. And if you feel like something is wrong, like it is wrong.

10:20Really interesting thing about my experience. And I mentioned this a little bit in my TikTok video was the standard of beauty is so different in Asia than it is in the US. So in the US, we have glamorized this look where it's like pointy features and a really strict jawline and like a snoop, a sloped nose. And it was really interesting because in Korea and in Asian cultures, actually 80 % of the foreign floor was Chinese visitors. They all want the complete opposite look. They want round features, a round face, not a defined jaw. Like at least that's what was told to me. And so it was very interesting going to another country to get treatments done where like I have a certain standard of beauty that I'm looking for.

11:02They think of something completely different from a standard of beauty. And so it was very interesting. It actually made me appreciate what I look like more authentically than like what I was trying to be other than like myself necessarily. Yeah. I also experienced that like when I was traveling to India for work, when I was working with EY and different standards of beauty in different places is really eyeopening. It's really interesting. And I think that's, what's the coolest thing about traveling so much as you learn so much. So even like the business way that people do business is so much more formal in Korea.

11:35We didn't do as much business in Japan or at least I didn't. But when I was in Korea, we did meet with a lot of founders, a lot of factories and the largest retailer in Korea. And it was so interesting. Like no matter your title or your role, every single person when they start the meeting presents you their business card. It's like a very formal experience where it's like almost this huge presentation for them of like their pride and joy is in this card. And I mean, obviously I don't carry around business cards. So like I already felt like, oh no, like I don't have something to present back. So that was like one major learning.

12:11You feel weird in the meeting being like, oh God, I don't have something to give them? No, I brought them all like HSR lip gloss. So I did have something cause I knew I was doing these meetings. So I mean, then that was like a topic of conversation to launch too, but even like the words, hot, smart, rich were definitely more polarizing over there than it was here. And so explaining to the executives behind all of young, what being a hot, smart, rich founder is like their faces at first were like pure shock. Um, Um, and so I think that was a really interesting tidbit that I also learned, but so the culture between Americans and Koreans is night and day, even down to the experience that you'll have when you're at Sephora or Olive Young.

12:55So for those of you who don't know what Olive Young is, it is the largest beauty retailer in Korea. They have almost 1400 stores in an Island. That's like tiny compared to the U S just to put into perspective, Sephora has about that many stores. I think they have like 1 ,700. It's the entire US. There is basically an Olive Young on every single corner. And I said this to my community, like if you are not paying attention to Olive Young and you are a beauty brand, you are in trouble because they are about to launch in LA this year and they have goals to open two more stores very quickly. If it goes as well as it does in Korea, like they will quickly grow to, I think, become one of the largest beauty retailers here.

13:38And I think, like I've said always, timing is everything. And the time is ripe for women to want something like Olive Young versus Sephora. And so let me break that down for you. When you walk into Olive Young, it is a love letter to women. It is telling women beauty is from the inside out. Beauty is holistic. Beauty is what you put on your body. It's what you put in your body. It's how you carry yourself. It's how you nourish yourself. It's how you celebrate yourself. And I think American women wouldn't have been ready for that yet because like Western medicine, we have always treated symptoms, not the root cause.

14:17Where in Eastern medicine, it is always about the root. And for someone that like me has struggled with acne for years, when I was doing treatments and creams and lotions and potions, nothing worked. And I was always that patient to my dermatologist that was like, I don't want to go and spirulolactin. I went on Accutane once and guess what? It didn't work because it was treating the symptoms, not the problem. And it wasn't until I actually started seeing an Eastern medicine practitioner, did a whole supplement protocol, lowered my cortisol, started trying to get better sleep, eating before having coffee, little things like that.

14:58Did my skin go from being a disaster to being like something that people ask me about all the time. And it's very interesting because most VMS or supplements have failed at Sephora. And it's interesting to think about why, because when you walk into Olive Young, yes, the first floor is like mostly the skincare and the beauty that like works really well. But the entire upstairs floor at the store that I went to was like an entire massive section for food and beverage, an entire massive section for supplements, laundry, toothbrushes, toothpaste, sleep aids, like bras, thongs, um, like anything that revolves around taking care of yourself.

15:40That was what was stopped there. And it just made me think about all of the brands that have been Sephora exclusives. If that doesn't allow them to be in all of young, because not that I'm saying that right away, all of young will take over Sephora, but I think that over time they will have problems because people are, even with the tariffs right now, people are buying K-beauty by like the boatload because they're like, oh my God, I would need to get my K-beauty supplements and treatments and products before like the tariffs come in. There is demand for it here. So if the demand is here and they're just like so ahead of the game.

16:16So we met with the two executives behind the US expansion and it's really cool because now I'm putting a list together of brands that they should be considering for emerging brands and across every single category, which is so fucking cool to be able to do. They gave us the present, the executive summary presentation. It is a pub is a privately held company. Um, but we were able to understand basically the entire business and even just the trends that they've identified before they come to market. So like in 2020, it was like vegan was everything, like vegan skincare 2022, it was like women health.

16:51So 2022 is when all of young started introducing all of these other categories into the business. And then their kind of vision for 2025, 2026 is like beauty from the inside out is literally their focus. Just so on trend with everything that I've talked about over the last little while, they're late years ahead of, oh, it's this love letter to women. And really it's the holistic view. And as a consumer, I would love to be able to go to a one-stop shop where I can grab underwear, laundry detergent, and like a cool, interesting face cream. Okay. Well, that was actually going to be one of my questions to you because when I was talking to Courtney about it, he was like, I actually don't know if like women want that in the States.

17:32And this goes back to like, there is one formula for successful businesses throughout history. It is the decoupling and coupling of functions and features into platforms or into standalone things. And you can either be exceptional at one thing and do it incredibly well. And people come to you because they're like, they are exceptional at skincare and makeup. Or it's like you then become the one-stop shop for people that are like time poor and you're looking for something where maybe it's not exceptional at every single thing, but they have almost everything that you're looking for. So my question to you was actually going to be do you think that the American consumer, the woman consumer wants that approach now?

18:18Or are they still looking for like the expert that just has one of everything that's the best? Well, I mean, I'm in a different phase of life of being a mom. And so I'm even thinking about my online purchasing habits. If I can buy everything from one place, from one online order, which is sometimes why the default is Amazon. It's like, because you can get everything. Then I'm only tracking one order. It shows up all at the same time. And I don't want to be buying at a million different places. Like I find that really annoying. Yeah. I was going to say like, I think that there, if they were going into like medical treatments or like things like that, I would just start to distrust the experience.

19:00Cause it's like, what are you the expert in? But for me, because I know that their promise is like, I mean, I came up with this thing, like love lettered women. I actually don't know what their mission statement is. Um, I feel like they've stayed somewhat with like a mission in mind and they've gone wide enough without going too wide. Um, but I have heard rumblings that, and we obviously have a portfolio company that we haven't even announced yet that just got a PO with Ulta as a supplement VMS company. Um, but it's interesting because I feel like Sephora, I mean, last week in the newsletter, I put in about 4am skin and the rebrand that Sephora wanted them to do.

19:37And I actually loved the transparency that Jay talked about, although I didn't necessarily agree with the guidelines that they wanted 4am skin to go down. But I hope that if 4am skin is watching this, they are just like looking at what happened with voicemails because that was something where from, this is all speculative. Like I have not talked to voicemails. I don't have a relationship with Sephora directly. But from what I have researched online, this was a push of a rebrand that Sephora wanted them to do to be able to go into store. And it has backlashed. What do you think about the Boy Smell's rebrand, or should I say rebland?

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21:34Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with EBCLIS. Before starting EBCLIS, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Searching for real relief? Ask your doctor about EBCLIS and visit ebglis.lily.com or call 1-800-LILY-RX or 1-800-545-5979. Really? Love that. So I like went kind of deep into this this morning because I'm three hours ahead of you. So I was like, oh, I want to look into this. Because transparently, like I hadn't even really heard of the brand Boy Smiles because obviously I'm not.

22:07I don't think I'm the demographic, obviously, right? Because it was started as an LGBTQ sort of like male driven brand. That's what my perception was from what I looked at online. I could see a very distinct change and I totally agree with the backlash of like it went from being this really authentic, interesting looking brand to just the cookie cutter brand that is exactly what Sephora wants on their shelf with no real personality. What do you think about the Boy Smell's rebrand or rebland? Overall, so disappointing. so I loved Boy Smiles because of this intersection of masculinity meets femininity even down to like the colors that they picked black and pink which traditionally I don't really like going together but it just worked for them yeah I also as a millennial loved the like simplicity branding meets these over-the-top accentuated features so like the top of their perfume and fragrance bottles were so like avant-garde and just like decorative and just over the top that I found it matched really well with this and it balanced out the simplicity of the branding.

23:24Um, and so obviously now they have totally one reformulated their products, which is, I think the bigger concern for people. I don't know if you've read the copy of the website, but like they went from taking these like beautifully written, almost like serenaded poems into like this clickbaity, Gen Z, not relatable, like saying like, I want to smell like your situationship. Like, sir, I do not want to smell like my situationship. I want to smell like I'm in love or I'm empowered by being single or whatever it is. And so that the, not only like the reformulating, but like the way that they're now talking to the customer, they've lowered their prices and the actual packaging looks like every other brand out there.

24:11Like look at the similarities between Rare Beauty's blushes with that like circular top. And then now like the Boy Smell's fragrance bottle and it's just like lost its sense of identity and individuality. I feel for you, Boy Smell's leadership team, because I too fell victim to wanting to be like Gen Z-ified. And And like when Gen Z brands were everything like Starface and like Plus and all these ones that were going into Target, I was like, oh, maybe that's what I should also turn our branding into. It's like this loud, exciting pop of color. And at the end of the day, like that was a disservice to my millennial self because I love Glossier Pink and Millennial Pink.

24:54And I love like this balance of elegance meets like boldness. And I feel like that's what Boy Smell's already had. But the reason I really feel for Boy Smell's is because you can tell that they are trying to find a new consumer. And that signals one thing to me, which is like the brand wasn't doing that well. But to see the reformulations, the new price point, the new retail distribution, and the new copy on their website, it's like every single thing about this brand has changed. And I think it's actually going to be, it's going to be interesting to see what happens because unless they're able to identify a completely new consumer base at Sephora and grow that, like they will have lost.

25:36And from what I've seen, they have lost their original consumer base because people like don't feel it's original anymore. They feel like they've turned their back on their original brand identity. And now they're like, okay, you've sold your soul to be in Sephora and now we are no longer going to support you. That is honestly, Maggie, exactly what I thought when I was reading through everything. I was like, to me as an executive in business, this is just a business that was not performing well. Like, and that is the unfortunate reality about a brand that has such big authenticity. It's really cool.