Maggie Sellers On Why Work-Life Balance Is a Lie, Building Ambition, Boundaries, and The Power of Moms (Ft. Katie Sellers)

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1:07I thought we had to snap. Katie Sellers, are you ready to get Hot Smart Rich? I'm so ready to get Hot Smart Rich. I'm so glad that you're back. And what, tell me about your outfit today. I went Maggie style this time. I don't know if you can tell. For the audience watching, I'm not wearing any shoes. Doesn't it feel freeing? It does feel freeing. Except we're going to see like our feet on OnlyFans at some point, but I'm down for that. Oh my God. honestly I so we just rented out um Courtney's apartment or house and we rented it to an OnlyFans model and we had to see yeah we had to see you see it in her content yeah I actually was waiting for somebody to like send it to me and be like he's cheating on you or something but we had to see her bank account because now we're landlords and we're actually seeing how much money this girl makes it is crazy it's millions i sometimes like you know that tiktok that you sometimes get on and they're like talking about how much money they some of them are making like millions a month well and it's so funny because somebody that we had on the podcast that their episode hasn't come out yet but they i was wearing no shoes it's like kind of a thing so like christian's laughing but like basically she starts taking her shoes off then she's like oh wait never mind i can't because actually have like people have taken my feet pictures and put them on sites.

2:23What? So she wore her shoes. A guest on our episode? Yes. And do you remember when I was in high school, like I was in the back of an Uber and somebody saw my feet and we're like, can I take pictures of your feet? So this is a real thing, but it was so funny because when we started renting out the house to this girl and we saw her bank accounts as a joke to Courtney, I was like, I think I should start an OnlyFans with just my feet pictures because I have like really beautiful feet. But nonetheless here we are I love my outfit because what I've decided is I'm doing the Steve Jobs thing where like I don't think about what I wear I just wear the same thing with the black or white t-shirt uniform totally also do you feel like when your husband hates your outfit it means that you have good fashion my husband is so not on that algorithm like he basically I could wear a paper bag and he'd be like you look absolutely beautiful honey he's a golden retriever yeah he's a golden Yeah.

3:16Whereas Courtney's like, take that off. Those jeans are horrible. Christian, do you like my baggy jean look or no?

3:26So Christian is our official video producer. He has done the last, actually like ever since the quality. So we were looking at the quality improved dramatically. But remember the thing that I posted that was like, you can't do your hundreds. And if you haven't done your first and the first thing of anything is going to be bad. And you're going to be embarrassed by the first. Oh my God. So like when we were going through this whole Kate Max drama, I was like, Katie, can you pull the clip of when I said that like brands and people should identify who they are. And then like that way you don't mislead an audience to thinking whatever.

3:57So we pull the clips back from like the first, it was like the first episode or the third with Courtney, but that was filmed like back in December of 2024. And it was scary. Like I, but then again, we go back to like that example of when that video of Sarah and Christine went on TikTok. It went super viral, got like a million views and it was the worst quality ever. The worst quality ever. But anyway, now we have like a full producer. We have an audio team, a video team and Christiane is amazing. Yes. Today kind of follows that trend that we talked about because I think we're going to clear the air on a lot of stuff.

4:30We have a big docket. We have a big docket. Did you steal that from Giggly Squad? There's a lot that's come across our desk. I also just feel like I'm so tired of people saying, oh Maggie, when I meet you in person, you're so much better in real life than you are online. Yeah. And I find it so hard when you like put on a TikTok video, you're, you're just like not yourself in the same way where at least like right now, this is genuinely who I am and you do the best job of bringing that out into me. And I'm trying to be my best self. More energy. More energy. More HSR energy. Okay. So let's just start with consumption habits.

5:06What's the last thing that you bought and the last most expensive thing that you bought? So the last most expensive things that I've bought are plants for my garden, which, shocker, they can be like hundreds of dollars. Did you know that I'm gardening now? I mean, I saw that on your TikTok, but I was like, there's no way she's gardening. It's going to be a passion project. Yeah. I mean, it is so therapeutic, like the flow that you get into, but I got some beautiful hydrangeas and flowers from my backyard, and it was like$500. Oh, wow. Okay, what's the last thing that you bought on the flight yesterday?

5:39gum maybe internet oh and that's what 24 canadian only eight dollars canadian and it was strong like i was like we were sending it was the strongest it's ever been and it's been a consistent problem every time i fly like i can't do anything but this time i was like online the whole time so that was the last thing what about you my last big purchase was that sir the label dress for f1 which i am obsessed with like i felt so sexy and chic in that and i think that was like the first I've dressed myself for a culturally relevant event. Like I haven't been like, I need a stylist, which I still do. Justine, we need to like get back into the groove of things, but I felt like really excited about that dress and I felt like it was such a good value.

6:18Um, and then the last thing that I bought actually yesterday, I went to the farm. So I'm in my cooking era in my home era, which is good. And I did, um, I did some gardening on Saturday. I did a light grocery shop of things that I couldn't get at the farmer's market. And then yesterday I went to the farmer's market and I think I spent like a hundred and something dollars at the farmer's market. Which is not bad on food. That is kind of bad for the farmer's market. But I did buy salmon and chicken thighs and eggs and like a bunch of stuff that's expensive. So, um, but yeah, I'm in my era of just like trying to not have balance, but like, which is impossible.

6:54Apparently, according to Emma Green. According. Did you watch that? That's one of the first things we were going to talk about, which is like work-life balance and Emma Green. Yes. What did you think about that episode? I have so many thoughts because like I feel like I've lived both worlds. Like I've been the Emma Greed being like the CFO of a consumer brand and building businesses. And like I understand where she's coming from. But I feel like the delivery and obviously there's so much production and there's literally a crow. Hello. There's so much post-production. Is that bad luck by the way?

7:28I mean I don't know if it's good. it's like what type of podcast are you doing today yeah we're letting it loose christian because basically

7:42okay keep going so and in the diary of the ceo i feel like there's so much post-production and cutting and editing like as the person who does our podcast like there's a lot that goes into it And so someone can say one thing and they mean something totally different. But like I really resonate with what she's saying as like an executive of a business. But then as a young mom with a family who needs flexibility and does want balance, like it can be totally at odds. And that like it really kind of hurt me to listen to the episode. Why? Because you feel like it's impossible, but it's like not what you necessarily want.

8:21I think like, and I mean, this is something else we're going to talk about. It's the whole like, are you an alpha female? What do you want out of life? What do you want out of your family? And it just was one of those things I listened to. And I was like, what I thought I wanted out of life is totally different after having a kid. And it just like really made me think about how I spend my time and what I value. But I totally agree with what she says. there is no balance in life. Yeah. Like, I don't know what you think, but I don't think there's balance. Well, I go back to like what I've always said, which is like, there are seasons, there are seasons where you like put your head down and do really good work.

9:00And I do think about myself when I was like at the beginning of my career, like I'm in a different place right now where I feel lost, like genuinely, like not having to be grinding 24 seven and have my job consume every single second of my thought. Like I sometimes wake up and I'm like, I feel so guilty. Like, Like, do you ever feel guilty between the hours of nine and five when you're not on your laptop and you're, like, running an errand or doing something that – It's so weird. But I think that's what she's saying in the episode, which was totally cut out of all of the social clips. Like, I don't know who's sitting there for the two hours to watch it.

9:33I know you and I posted. But, like, what's in the news cycle is the clip that's, like, there's no work-life balance. It's not my problem. The responsibility is on you. But then what she says after is actually so true. I run an organization now where no parent is missing a soccer game, a dentist appointment, a haircut. Like there's inherent flexibility built into the day-to-day. And I think that's very true and what people missed when they're talking about it. She's not saying like, how dare you ask me? Like you have to work 24 hours a day. No. No, she's not saying that. How dare you ask me about work-life balance in the interview?

10:07It's like people now should know that if you're working in a business like that, there is flexibility. So you don't need to ask me. And by the way, like I completely agree with what she was saying around, like, if you are not in the office when you're in your twenties, you're not in the position that she's in, in her forties. Like, I don't know where we went so wrong with this idea that like the office is so toxic and that you have to be working from home. Working from home is isolating, especially when you're living in a one bedroom apartment. Totally. I did that during COVID. I went from like being on tour with artists, like being in a really creative artist environment to like being at home in a one bedroom where I lived.

10:42I worked. I worked out there. I slept. I like socialized there. And it was so exhausting. And you don't have, it's so funny too, because when I've never had a problem like meeting men because my whole, like my whole life has, especially in work, been around men. And I hear that a lot from women that work in environments where it's like, they're working from home. They're in beauty. They're surrounded by other women. The office is 70 % female. The office is 70 % female, but they also don't go into the office like more than three times a week. And I'm like, no wonder you have a hard time meeting men because you're by yourself all day.

11:14And I'm not saying like now that I work from home, I'm not saying that like, oh, I've like achieved a certain whatever. And now I have the right to do that. I actually like miss an office environment. Totally. And I think that now to Emma's point, it's like employers are flexible. Yes. They're not like, oh, you have to be at your desk at 8am. Like when I was growing up, if you were not at your desk at an eight or nine, you were late. And that was like a problem on your performance. And they would talk to you and be like, you're not getting here until 9.15 every day. Like there's a problem. And when I was working at Ernst & Young, the partners are all getting in at 7, 7.30.

11:47It's the only time they have to work. And if you were there, guess what? You had the chance to talk to them when they were getting a coffee or walking to the bathroom. And that did help me build my career by being in the office five days a week, seven days a week during busy season. And like, yeah, now when I'm a bomb, do I want to be in the office five days a week and like grind, grind, grind. No, but to your point, there's seasons and there's phases. And like, if you are in the phase where you want to like grind and build your business and. But I think that's also what the clip didn't show is that like what she says is she's like, if you want an extraordinary advice life, you have to have extraordinary input to get that output.

12:26Yeah. And I think that's what gets so lost is like, I think because one of the things we're going to talk about is like influencer, rich culture, rich talk. And like we have, everybody wants that life. Everybody wants to be able to buy a million Hermes bags and Van Cleef, whatever that like Becca Bloom is talking about. But then it's like, okay, no one wants to do the work. And I think that brings into this whole concept of like Nepo babies and like whatever it is. Cause like, did you do the work or did your parents do the work? But I think just like the, what she was trying to say, which I fundamentally agree with is there is nothing wrong with a middle life.

12:56There's nothing wrong with like not having to live paycheck to paycheck, being able to go on one or two vacations a year, sending your kids to camp, not having to stress about putting food on the table and like you can a thousand percent have work-life balance but we and the hsr community is these ambitious women that like want to be able to have an extraordinary life don't necessarily want to sacrifice every single thing to get there what have i said for years until i met courtney like my worst fear is getting all of the money in the world or like what i would consider an extraordinary life yeah and not having anybody to share that with yeah and i think that it just like it every time I've had somebody in these chairs the theme that I've gotten is that like there are seasons like there are seasons where you are grinding it out and like that's also something if you're listening to this and you're single sometimes I miss my single life not for the reasons that you think I miss the ability to be selfish on my career and do whatever you want when you want and when you need to do it and by the way like you have the headspace like Emma was talking about when you have so like I was alone all the time yeah in previous relationships and when I was single and when you're alone and you're not getting distracted by your phone and you're being intentional with your time the creativity flows through you yeah whereas like when you have these responsibilities like a family a house to take care of a child you don't have that same time yeah and I think about that all the time like when I was I was never sad to be single.

14:23I was literally like, this is amazing. My career is going to flourish. Everything's going to end up getting better. And when you do have dependents or people that rely on you, there are sacrifices that you make huge sacrifices. And I think it's not until I truly had a child that you realize the sacrifice that you make as a woman with a family to service. It's not just like servicing your husband it's like servicing your life like to be a family and yeah like now that you're saying that I'm like sometimes I and Carter and I that's my husband Carter and I say to each other like I'm here in LA for a week and he's like great go have fun do your thing guess what it's easier for me when you're not here yeah and I say the same to him like when he said to go away for work or for family stuff for like three four nights why do you think that is because expectations are that it's on you.

15:14It's just like there is no question whatsoever about like who's in control, whose agenda are we on, what's the time schedule, who's putting the kid to bed, bath time, dinner, whatever. It's like you know it's on you. You have to do it but then you get to do it exactly the way that you want to do it. Like you don't have to ask for someone else's opinion or be like oh I know this triggers my husband so like maybe I won't do it that way but like when they're not there you don't have to care about that it's so interesting did you see that whole thing around the cake company offering like paid child support for so we got a lot of questions from the community of um i don't want to say this wrong but do you actually have like the name of the company cakes cakes so they made an announcement that they were going to be covering 36 000 per year yeah for parents that work at their company to have child care which is honestly like amazing amazing and talk to me about that as like a mom would that make you want to go work at that company 100 yeah 100 and i mean i live in canada where there is subsidized child care but it wasn't when i first had my son and the average cost is like 2200 a month that's insane insane and guess what if they have a fever and they send them home you're still paying that you're still paying that and they have hand foot and mouth throat for a week still paying that and so this actually concept came up a lot at majority around like how can we actually enable the women in our organization to like be at work and be productive and have a child and I give credit to the founder founders the founders but specifically Nora when she would always say like majority okay yeah when she would always say my goal is to have a daycare here yeah on site that can be super flexible and accommodating for the women who work here and like this is the beginning stages I think of what we're seeing of brands who truly are like 70 % of my workforce is women and I need to provide benefits that are going to service them and enable them to be their best self at work and so like 100 % I would want to work here I would want to shop here well that's the thing I was going to say is that like I got so many messages of girls being like can you talk about this because I became a new customer.

17:25Do you think that as the CFO of a former multimillion dollar company that the CFO would project in like, yes, we're spending$36 ,000 for X, but like we anticipate that our sales will grow by Y. Yeah. I mean, I think they, I don't know, like if necessarily they would have gone to the consumer perspective of like, Oh, what's the customer perception and will that equate into sales? But they definitely would have done like the internal, okay, this is like our benefits package we offer x y and z if we give women or families this like we can expect why in well that's what i think like is so interesting around like you vote with your dollars and that goes back to like i got some pushback when i said that brands and influencers need to make their political stance known yeah because or or don't but just be prepared that you might experience backlash but if you make your political stance known there's no surprises to your community and i think that consumers now vote with their dollars.

18:21They vote where they want to see their money go. And so for me, I actually shamelessly had never heard of the company cakes before saw this was getting tagged in it so much. And I was like, you know what? Now I actually will shop there because that is something I can get behind as a female founder. And I think that like, it's such an interesting thing because I did get some pushback from people being like, why would your political views? Like, I don't want to know that. And it's like fair. Like I can't even vote in the States, but like, I've made it pretty clear, like who I am, like what I stand for.

18:49Obviously I think this brings up something else where it's like, just because you're a creator and influencer doesn't mean that you have to expose your entire life and what your views are on everything. And that was also something that I've been questioning around a lot of the people sitting in this chair so that people also know like my mentality of asking questions is like, I've asked when you were defining your personal brand, what was like fair game and what was just off limits for you? And I think that there are things that also can be fluid. And I was really upset. I understand where people were coming from with the Remy Bader surgery, but at the same time, like it is her private life.

19:30And that was something, if you actually take the time to have empathy, which I feel like nobody in society has anymore, especially for people online, if you watch the state of her life and her health before she went for that surgery. What I'm hearing the community say is I value my life more than hers because she was not an okay person. And for her to make that decision and to feel like I'm going to keep this private, I actually respect. And I think I've actually even started to get some interesting comments of people being like, you're so transparent about money. You're so this, like, can you reveal X?

20:06And I'm like, I am more than happy to, as the brand that I built on, talk about angel investing. And I've been super transparent with people. Like I invest five to$10 ,000 into companies myself. When we do an investment, that's like 150 ,000 or 200 or 500. I don't have that money. I've never said that I've had that money. And I am very clear about what is the distinction of like, I'm angel investing. And this is an HSR ventures investment. I don't think that that invites people to see my personal balance sheet or for me to be like, this is exactly X, Y, and Z. And I don't know if that's just like my own, um, perception, but like for me, I don't think that being a creator invites the world to get to see every single aspect of your life.

20:54And it's, I think a really hard thing for people who watch you or engage with you or any creator, cause they think that they know you. I think it's one of those things people really struggle with boundaries and when someone sets a boundary, people really don't like that when they think that they're entitled to more. But now that we're talking about this and money, I think like maybe – I mean you're on – are you on the algorithm of people who are like the digital marketing experts? No. It's people who are like the MLM of our generation, which is like I teach you how to be a coach so you can teach someone to be a coach.

21:32It's all a scam. But those people, like the way part of their like social proof of how they actually build their personal brand is by literally pulling screenshots of like their stand store and putting it in their TikToks. To be like transparent about that. To be transparent about like, I'm so successful that I've been able to make like$2 million selling these courses. Like selling what? Courses to teach people how to sell courses. Like it's literally an MLM. It's like almost fraudulent what they're doing. but like maybe that's part of where this is coming from from people where they're like we're seeing all these other people post their like sales and whatever and so like why aren't you doing that but it's so funny because like I built a brand not off even being like a personal finance expert like I built my brand off of being like here's business deep dyes and like here's what I'm doing in my real job in my real life like I think that's what people forget is like I was investing for years before doing syndicates.

22:27And like it all happened as I was building in public. Like it also doesn't mean that as these founders that are building in public that you're, you have to share every single detail. And I think that is what's so interesting about these parasocial relationships. And like, it's so crazy to be able to like have this podcast and get to show the founder side of like who these people actually are. Because I think you build up an idea in your head and then it's like, that isn't necessarily like their authentic whole self. You know what I mean? Totally. We're also seeing a rise of these female founder podcasts.

22:58Yes. Which there was an article in Inc this morning that came out, which I was so sad that hot smart rich was not mentioned in that first of all, because when you go to aspire on Spotify, following similar podcasts, hot smart riches there. I think that like they, everyone's noticing the same white space that we did, which is like women want to be financially smart. They want to build businesses. Everybody wants a product and it's like, how do you help them get there? And And it's so – I actually always believe that there's, like, so much room for everybody that I'm loving the surgence of it because, like, all boats rise together.

23:28I think it's going to be really interesting to see how it plays out because we also read that article that was around, like, the rise of female voices on podcasting. And I think that's the really hard balance of, like, when you're thinking about shows, you want to keep people's attention for an hour. And, like, one of the things that I really struggle with is, like, this idea of having a persona and, like, being myself. and sometimes I'm like I find it hard to like take off the myself hat and like put on this entertainment hat especially in the world of building businesses and I don't know about you but when I was watching the Emma Gree podcast like an hour and a half in I was bored this diary of a CEO one yeah yeah I agree and I think it is hard to keep people's attention and I think we know that from even filming this podcast yeah I don't know if I should have said this before but it just came to my mind and I wrote it down.

24:16My favorite creator that has taken backlash off of something and turned it into like the most creative thing I've ever seen is Serena Kerrigan. Serena Kerrigan was caught having Manjaro in her fridge when she was filming a brand ad a year ago. And I felt for her because I was like, first of all, if you know Serena Kerrigan, she is like the most girl's girl, amazing person you will ever meet. She is fantastic at like being her authentic self online, but also like playing up that it's like she wants to and has been since a child like a drama queen like writing shows and like entertaining and doing little plays and so I felt for her and then I don't know if you saw this last week but she did an ad for a GLP-1 supplement drink oh did she and oh I think I actually saw this it was the most amazing way of somebody that had been like or could have been like taken down online to like reclaim something that maybe she did want to keep private.

25:14Like just because you're a creator and you make a decision on your health doesn't mean that you owe the internet every single decision on it. So for her to now find a company that like she wanted to partner with and do something that she loves to do, I was like, that is the exact perfect recipe of a creator meets a brand moment. And it's so funny because I think so much stuff can get misconstrued. Like I was sent something by super gut, which is a company that's raised a bunch of money. The former, um, social and brand marketing lead at aura ring has now gone in to be the brand marketing manager at super gut.

25:48She's like, can I send you stuff? I'm like, for sure. And it's GLP one craving like bars and GLP one like mixes. And I was like, I can't post this because then people are going to think that like I'm on GLP ones. And it's like, it's so crazy when you think about like how many dots are connected online when you live this like personal public life yeah it's something that I'm still wrapping my head around and like I wouldn't say that I've mastered no but I think like you said Serena Kerrigan like that's a perfect example of someone reclaiming their power and sometimes I feel like we often forget like when you're stuck in a tricky situation whether it's personal work family whatever sometimes all you have to do is name it and own it and it immediately loses all wait can i tell you what i've always told every single i remember this so well one of my first investments i was like the you need to start thinking about crisis pr and the my team was like maggie like they just raised like a million dollars like they're not thinking about crisis pr and i was like i get that but if you can't do that you need to own the narrative and i've always that's my life mission there's two things that I've said, if you're listening to this and you're like a little lost in your career, you need some advice.

27:03I always said, never get set up to fail and always own the narrative. And if you can do that, you're able to get in front of things before they snowball. So as an example, when I started seeing these comments, like I will read some right now. Can you break down how you've gotten rich, hoping you'll break down how to make money, how you've made your money? I said, can you please listen to my angel investing episode. I'm pretty sure I've explained everything there, including how much I'm investing, which is five or 10 K per deal. I already talked about the syndicate thing. And then someone goes, she married well, not married yet.

27:38Um, then the girl goes really pretty deceptive. If true, you don't think she has money of her own thought she was a VC. I don't know how more explicit I could be to people of like, even if you buy our 50, 20, 2010 budget, it. Like I literally talk about how I made my money to like sell my house to like afford to get an E2 visa. I've also talked about that in multiple podcast episodes. And that's where I think there's this line where it's like, I've shared enough that I'm comfortable with. And then the rest is not up to people to have information to know. Like when Courtney and I do our prenup, I don't think you will get access to what is in my prenup.