Natalie Holloway's Secret To Getting A Shark Tank Deal & Bootstrapping to $20M, While Having 3 Kids (Bala Founder)

29:27So if you introduce Mark Cuban to a good investment and you make him money, like that only looks good on you. And I think like, that's what I've loved about you is just like your openness and you're willing to like be there when it's not convenient or when it's just like not comfortable. And also just like share that you're going to do over$20 million of revenue with a$900 ,000 investment. Like, that's crazy. How did you get to that point? It's been a long road of up and down and, you know, but we're, I mean, I would say, okay, like snapshot is COVID. You kind of know our story. I know. Like I didn't know if you were going to be willing to talk about it.

30:05Okay. Let's talk about COVID and then like what happened after COVID. Yeah. Okay. So it really was crazy because we started the brand as a side a complete side hustle we literally have on our vision board like 10 units a day like wish we could sell 10 units a day that's nothing compared to now and so it was just a side project so anyway we launched but then the perfect storm of shark tank and covid happened yeah two years into the business so that was like the year we literally went from two to 20 million it's like out there uh the story but two to 20 million but then what happened is we were like okay we're doing 2 million with a couple people on the team, it was like my husband and myself, we need to like hire people, we need to like spend the money, you know, like, get the website, do the photo shoots, like spend all the money, basically.

30:52And we were super profitable because of the lean team. So fitness was soaring, you know, all indicators were that like, this was going to continue. And so I think the next year, we had projected a growth year, like maybe 24 or 25 million. But what happened and said is it was a down year. And so we had hired 30 people on the team. And we basically, after a few rounds of layoffs and this down year, it was the year that, you know, like Peloton was going down. Like everyone knows fitness was going down that year. I think it was at home fitness because everyone was going back to the gym. Exactly. Exactly.

31:26And so we were not prepared for that. And when you're not VC backed, a down year of like even a couple million, like really impacts your cash flow. Like we were like, we need to like fire people like yesterday. So after a few rounds, we went all the way down to three people, my husband, myself, and Brooke, who I'm sure you've met on our team, who's our CBO now. So literally went down to three people. And it was like, okay, all of a sudden, we had, we had to do everything. Like I had to do all of our wholesale business, which is like 1000s of wholesale retailers. And so it was a really dark time we were like almost going to go out of business like so so close to going out of business um but then you know over the last couple of years we that made us like really whipped us into shape and turned the business into a very profitable business and instead of like valuing like growth we valued profitability at every turn and so it just like it kind of changed the course of of the business but it was just crazy having to go through that yeah and it's so crazy because I remember like when you were pitching me, I was like everything in me wants to invest.

32:34But like I was so early in my investing career, I was like, I have to remember that like I'm going to be judged on like my return and like what is making good decisions. And I remember being like, it's so unfair that like I had to say no strictly because you were dealt a card of like explosive growth because of COVID at home fitness. And then it's like without anybody ever knowing, it's like everybody's going back to the gym. And it's like, how do you prepare for that? But I think what I have just respected so much about you and Max as like a leadership team is the way you handled that because it was like it wasn't ever an option to fail or close it was like you just had to do what you had to do which as a girl's girl female is really hard when you're having to lay off a staff of like 27 people what was that like for you it was horrible I was like friends with these people you know and then all of a sudden it's like and they don't they didn't necessarily understand exactly why we why no they didn't know what was really truly behind the curtain things you don't really share with employees like we were like three million I think it was three million dollars in debt completely and that was like that was horrible um and did you have your son at that point I had my son at that point actually I was pregnant with my daughter too so you were I was going through this pregnant and had to fire everyone and then basically do all of their jobs like we had to split all of those people's jobs between us and just like we had like almost like a mantra of like good is good enough you know like it doesn't have to be perfect doesn't have to be the best like things are gonna slip through the cracks during this like era and that's okay because this is what we have to do to save the business and then now we like paid off that debt and it's just you know it's a different business now but at the time it was like very dark times and now I'm just like so it makes me honestly just so impressed with you like even more so than when you walked into my house because I knew a lot of the story but obviously not down to like what happened after we had been talking so when you guys did your layoffs you were basically doing everything what was the turning point to you guys being like we are going to right this ship and completely change the business to profitability I mean the turning point was like like I wanted to the problem is we could have like let go of people like six months earlier and not had such a like debt and things like that but I was like my heart I couldn't like let go of these people I really really cared about them they were great at their jobs all the all the stuff so it really took Max and I back and forth like finally he's like we like we have we were going out of business like now if we don't do this and I had had to do it I mean really it was like when we we owed people we didn't have anyone to back us like there's we weren't gonna make payroll like yeah literally had to do it and there was no other option.

35:22And so I think it's just, it was like, it was truly back to the beginning because it was like when we started, I was doing customer service and all of these things and now we're back to that. Do you feel like your relationship with money and just like having gone from zero to 2 million to 20 million back to like having to do everything changed a lot in terms of being like much more frugal? Like how do you think about money today? both like well how do you think about money today as a founder i mean for the business i think of it as like what i said earlier with influencer marketing like a return on investment because the old me when we got ourselves in that situation would be like oh our head of growth says we need to spend three hundred thousand dollars on a new website i would say why like why can't we spend 40 grand like let's see what the options are here before we just go with what people the experts say because that's what got us into trouble is like, you know, you're supposed to spend this amount of money.

36:17You know, you mentioned like an influencer. It's like maybe then somebody would be like, pay 50K for a post. And we might have done it because someone said we should. But now I'm like, there has to be a return on everything because that's how you make a super profitable business. And we have now. And so definitely made me more frugal and also just like look at everything across the business. I'm Chris Hadfield. I'm an astronaut, an author, a citizen of planet Earth. Join me for a six-part journey into the systems that power the world. Real conversations with real people who are shaping the future of energy.

36:54No politics, no empty talk, just solutions-focused conversations on the challenges we must overcome and the possibilities that lie ahead. This is On Energy. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. An ROI. How do you think about your relationship with money personally since that experience? Personally? Oh, let's see. That's, well, probably the same. I'm like less frugal in my day-to-day life, I feel like. Well, you value your time now because you are a mom. Yeah. That is what it is. It is value my time. So it's like I'd rather pay a premium to get time back with my kids. Or like if I could punch above my weight, you know, by doing something on Bala, like my time is better spent.

37:41I might make more for giving five hours dedicated time to Bala than I would doing whatever this other task is. So I think, you know, valuing your time for sure. Did you grow up like with an abundance mindset towards money or how did you grow up thinking about money? I always saved and worked really hard. Like I was like a 16 year old that was waitressing. and I was like middle class family had everything I needed but I was like a 16 year old waitressing like saved like ten thousand dollars on my own like in a summer or two you know like I always felt I think I guess I felt like I needed to work hard and always have something going on in that sense but I do have an abundance mindset at least now about money yeah well I feel like when you they always say that like whether it's like addiction or whatever it's like when you almost like hit rock bottom it's like you you just are like there is no other option for me like I just have to think differently when you think about like the world that we live in now with social media and especially being like the front face of the brand I feel like there's so much pressure to spend on like new clothes and like fashion and beauty like do you have a certain category that you do find yourself like mom stuff aside that you're investing into and like prioritizing where you buy things like is it fashion is it workout classes like where do you find you spend your disposable income honestly I don't even blink twice about like you know not like skincare like skin things like i just did this like crazy your skin is amazing what you do this laser facial have you heard of the salmon sperm one yes yeah i just did that but i'm just saying things like that how much is that okay that i bought three sessions it was twenty four hundred dollars and where did you go but i wouldn't spend like twenty four hundred dollars on a dress you know what i mean so like i spend and like that's like an investment in myself i went to a place called bliss point in larchmont okay because you live on the east side but this is well large it's close enough to you okay yeah I'm gonna go I mean your skin's amazing no but this is like you have a glow to you I was like is she pregnant again I swear then it must be that because so you spend on skincare skincare and like wellness things especially because it's research for our brand um you know like sauna things like that like cold plunge whatever I don't are you guys going into cold plunge and saunas and stuff no we're not but I just feel Like everything in wellness is researched for the brand truly.

40:00And so vitamins, things like that, I wouldn't bulk. I would invest in, you know, my body and the skin. Yeah. We are doing a studio though. You are. In New York. I thought that you guys had a studio. That was a pop-up. And did it go well? It did go well. That was in the time of spending too much money. Okay. So it went well, but we spent too much money on it. Okay. On it. And so now we're doing it differently. how how much does a build-out like that cost gosh the build-out I guess since I'm just going to be so super honest um the build-out of that I think was like probably 300 ,000 but it was six month pop-up so if you think about you know and then rent is like over 20 ,000 and then you think about the operations and the design fees it gets it gets like half a million yeah but if you're doing a build-out for something that's staying like our studio yeah 10-year lease yeah like that could be double.

40:53What do you think about the exclusivity of the Allo Gym when you're thinking about your Bala studio? Is it going to be influencer only? Is it going to be reserved? Like how do you think about exclusivity versus community marketing in today's world? So we'll always have like exclusive events, you know, like going on like influencer events. But for our studio, we feel very firmly that we don't want it to be super influencer. I'm sure it will be because it'll be like beautiful and people take selfies and all that but we want it to feel very like we want everyone to feel welcome and we want it to feel like a like a true community anyone can come we don't want anyone to feel like they have to like dress up and put makeup on to go and we've heard that feedback in all of our research that we're doing right now about other studios that like carry a lot of ball of products sometimes people like love the workout but they don't really want to go because they feel like maybe they don't look cute enough or they're not like dressed up enough and so we're really trying to make that not the thing and we want everyone to feel welcome like truly so I think that was how our store was too so hopefully we'll pull that off and is it going to be a store and studio in one there'll be retail at the front like you can go pick up some bangles or something not full retail experience and then it's really all about the studio yeah it's so interesting and some insight and this is why I love HSR so much because I get like firsthand feedback on what people love when Lululemon opened their gym in New York I posted being like, and I did a poll on my Instagram stories for HSR.

42:21What do you guys think will be more successful? Like, like Aloe Gym, Aloe Yoga is exclusivity or Lululemon's like come for everybody. And everybody was like, oh my God, community marketing, Lululemon, like I'm so over Aloe because of the exclusivity factor. And I just feel like nowadays building with your community is so important. And a lot of brands say that they do it, but then in practice, that's not where the money flows. Do you guys feel like the community is actually giving you that ROI versus influencer marketing? Yes, because they're the ones that are like, are really shopping. Yeah. But I think that that's a fair point.

42:58I mean, the poppy, you know, do you see? Yes. What do you think about that? Yeah, it's too much money to spend on influencers. But we we don't we wouldn't ever spend that much on influencers. We would do like a cute mailer or something, of course, like, but I feel like, you know however much it was it was like ten thousand dollars a vending machine or something i feel like that is better spent for the community you know so like giving away like free classes for a week or whatever it is like we definitely intend on doing more community yeah the thing i feel bad for with poppy and the thing i think they were judged on incorrectly is like let's say they're doing 300 million dollars of revenue which i don't know but like let's just say they probably are they probably are like they have an influencer budget that's for those like big grandiose awareness campaigns like exclusivity and influencer marketing works cool I do think that poppy does do a good job of community marketing as well as influencer marketing and so I did feel a little bit bad for them that I was like they kind of do both and they're being like torn down for something where it's like they kind of don't disregard their community they just do both but I feel like nowadays being a founder like you just can't win and do you personally get affected when you get hate towards Bala?

44:11Yes, of course. How do you deal with that? Especially when I was the one responding to the emails, like any hate would like cut me so deep. And I would like say something snarky back, get off customer service. How do I deal with that? I think I just say, you know, it's okay to not be for everyone. And that just means that you're actually making a statement, like you're pissing someone off, like believe like we've had people pissed because like, we put a girl in like a super fashion outfit to work out. And it's like, I don't know why you're pissed about that yeah something else bad happened in your day but you're not for us yeah lady you know and that's okay and we made you feel something yeah you know and that means the people who felt they loved it like we made them feel something so I feel like it's better to make people feel something do you feel like there's such a pressure to put like such diversity in campaigns that it's like it's hard as a small brand when you're like well I mean you're lucky you don't actually make sizes of clothing where it's like you're having to do like an entire like size of guide of like so many different sizes or a makeup brand that has to do like so many different skin tones.

45:14Otherwise, like you're not inclusive. Do you feel that same pressure from like a creative standpoint where you're like, we have to put such diversity in our campaigns that it's like hard sometimes as a small brand? For sure. And it's like sometimes you only have the budget for like one model and it's like the model you have to pick what, you know, what ethnicity that model will be and so yes I do feel like that's that is tough and we really do try to have like diversity um but it's it is hard because then it's like maybe we did have diversity but not body inclusivity on this one campaign and like people you know reach out and we'll hear about it on our emails like let's say we have like a feature like a monthly ball of a feature it could be like the sammies would be on one you know maggie sellers will be on one maggie sellers will be on our next one and um basically ball of a feature and it's like if it's just like a hot girl like oh my gosh this is so disappointing but it's like well you have to represent all and you can't be mad about you know so it's just tough and you have to just like realize you're always gonna hear something even if you think you got it right I'm so bad at that like I I think I'm just so new to this that like it does really hurt me still like it hurts do you get you get you've said I oh yeah I get a lot like it's like hot smart riches like oh that's like the worst for sure.

46:31It's actually crazy. So my boyfriend was telling me that somebody that he's friends with literally like told him not to date me when we were first starting to date because of the name of my company. And then his best friend actually, yeah, what came, his best friend came and like straight up to my face was like, what is this about hot, smart, rich at your email address? And I was like, my goal is to be so provocative that I capture people's attention to empower women to become hot, smart, rich. If you do your research, you will know that like, I don't actually think that I'm hot, smart, rich. It is a way to cut through the noise of this world that we live in and do something that like brings the right people in.

47:11So that doesn't bother me. The stuff that bothers me is like this stuff that feels really personal, like that somebody that is in my life is actually saying something about me like that's not really like a close friend but is like somebody that like knows something and I'll like see it and I'm just like whoa like I can't believe that that has like gotten out or like is there or things that don't bother me are like the sound of my voice people are annoyed by or the name of my company but it's more like the mission of what I'm doing like who does she think that she is she's such a know-it-all like say that that's crazy isn't that crazy on what unlike reddit on reddit but that just means you're cool enough to be on reddit i mean i know but it's still really like rachel my pr is laughing because she's like it's so good you want them to say something you want them to say i know with what you're building and it is catchy and anyone who knows you like knows your intent so it's like yeah get rid of the noise but easier said than done i have thin skin too i have such thin skin it's something i'm working on and honestly like my boyfriend sends me like a message every single day being like, don't care if people think about you, just keep doing your thing.

48:18And I think this is like the space that I craved so much. Like growing up in the startup world that I did, I never felt like there was women I could like look up to that were honest, like you are being right now. Like it was such a facade of like luxury and perfection and like curation. And there was no understanding of like, how much does it cost to put a studio together? Like what does it look like to almost like go into bankruptcy like all of the things that we experience and that's why for me it's like such a sacred thing and I love bringing people like you on who are like here's like the good the bad and the ugly of what is actually happening when you come back from mat leave what will your role look like it's a good question and everyone's like when are you coming back because I I just get to decide when I'm coming back but um I think I'm gonna just I'm gonna structure I was doing this before actually because I was so pregnant and I really wanted to get a lot of time in with my two-year-old daughter um basically I just structure my days really differently so like I'll you know maybe like do some emails from eight to nine but then I will like take my daughter to the park or her library class from like nine to twelve like I you know that's like crazy to take like a three-hour chunk right then but then like she'll nap from like 12 to two or 12 to three and I'll like power through a bunch of stuff or schedule like a meeting then you know I like block my days around my kids so that I can be there for them and um or when the kids go to bed I just know hey I'm gonna work for like a really power through 30 minutes of emails or whatever it is so I will structure my days to where I feel like I'm not missing out on my kid's life and do you feel like your role at Bala is like moving more into that front-facing like creator founder role where you're like creating content I saw you just did an ad with Amazon, which I was obsessed with.

50:05Like, is that the stuff that lights you up? Yeah, I do like that stuff a lot. I like working, you know, with other brands. I like, said it earlier, but giving business advice and, you know, being an advisor to other companies. And so, yes, I think that's where I would like to see my career go. I love it. Yeah. Okay. Well, to wrap up, because we're almost at time, I wanted to do some rapid fire. I love rapid fire. Fun. Okay. If you could only pick one for the rest of your life coffee tea or cocktail oh my god that's so hard i have to go fast though coffee what's your hard between coffee and cocktail what's your coffee order oh latte with a little bit of vanilla okay good at least you okay like these girls that want to die on the hill for their coffee order and it's like a black coffee i'm like babes like no i don't know now i'm full of regret i need okay what's your cocktail order a spicy margarita okay i'm I'm feeling crazy.

50:57A dirty martini. Okay. If you could only pick one for the rest of your life, Pilates or strength training? Pilates. Okay. Air One or Joe and the Juice? Air One. Is there anything else that you could pick? Like, I was trying to think of something over Air One. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Ooh. Not Joe and the Juice. Like, what about, like, I would with Air One or Sweet Green? That's a good one. Air One or Sweet Green. Okay. What would you choose? Air One still. Nothing. There's more options. I know. Air One is so good. Okay. this one's tricky or air one or sugar fish okay who would you pick then still air one you're like i got it this time sugar fish for the rest of my life you know no who is your favorite comfort creator comfort what's comfort oh it's like a trendy thing what is it i've been i've been like a feel good like creator like who do you just like put on a feel good creator yeah i like lauren ireland love her she and she's like a mom too and like a founder so i feel like i like Like, I just like it.

51:54You relate. Yeah. Who is the creator that works the best for Bala? Probably the Sammies, I would say, right now. We have this other guy. I forgot her name. Oh, Danny Austin. Okay. Also. Okay. So very, like, workout people. Well, Danny Austin's more, like, lifestyle mom. Okay, I don't know her. And she really is, like, high converting, but doesn't really post a lot, just when we have. But, yeah, workout people. People with like a following, like a Sammy who has, you know, their millions of followers. What affiliate platform do you guys use? We just switched to ShopMy. Okay, cool. What is your favorite Bala product?

52:37This is hard. Bars. The bars. The three pound bars. Okay. What is your favorite marketing campaign that's not yours? Or like influencer collab partnership? Ooh. I love what Set Active just did for International Women's Day. and they pulled in a bunch of founders, not really direct competitors, but all kind of worked together. And we did a shoot and it was really great. Do you love to be a model? That was fun. I love it. Okay. What is your favorite way to ask for money? From who? Anybody. Investors, like customers. Like how do you, like I have this thing where I do an HSR discount. So every time I'm checking out of a retail store, I'm like, can I have 15 % off?

53:21and they're like, what? Look at Rachel's face. And they go, what? And I go, yeah, I would like 15 % off my order. And they say, why would I ever give you 15 % off your order? And I said, I don't know. Can I get it? Do they do it? 50 % of the time they do. See, I don't have the balls for that. You know what I think it is? I just take the price given. No, rejection therapy. We are rejected so much in life. And the thing that built me so much resilience is when I first started my career, I did 100 cold calls a day. And I was just hung up on and told to fuck off. And now I don't give a fuck if you reject me.

53:58I'm like, your loss. I agree with that. And I actually say that about business too. But for some reason in some areas, like I'm at a store and I'm gonna ask for a discount. Like I could never. But for business, I would like ask anything. Okay, it's my favorite way to ask for money. I'm thinking of who. Oh, I like like a referral program or something. Okay, love that. Like from a partner brand, like an agency or something. Because I'm always getting asked, you know, if you needed – Design services. Design services. And it's like, okay, I actually have somebody really good. So it's great if I get that referral fee.

54:32For sure. Love that. So you ask for the referral fee. I ask the brand. Yeah. So it's like, let's say I'm recommending the design. Not always, but like if it's a tech platform, like they have the budget. So it's like, I'll refer you for – For sure. A referral based on that. But a lot of women don't do that. They feel like awkward asking for that. But it's like, even for me, I actually wanted to say to my landlord, like, if I find you somebody to move into my apartment, I want 15 % of their first month's rent because I found you your tenant. You didn't need to hire a real estate agent. That's exactly what it is.

55:04And I think that's a flex your muscle thing because I might have felt sheepish the first time I did it. But what I realized is like these people, like I'm talking mostly like a tech or SaaS platform. They might send like 200 cold emails, but like I have the direct contact to the brand. And if you just asked me, I should get paid for that. Yeah. So, but women don't think like that. They're like, I'll just do it. And it's so funny being around like my boyfriend now, who's just so successful in business. Like he gets paid for what he does. And he looks at me when I like, don't ask for stuff. And he's like, Maggie, like you deserve to be paid for that introduction.

55:37And I'm like, oh, I didn't know that. I literally am doing a sub stack article tomorrow on finance tools. And I asked every brand that I'm promoting for either like to pay for it or give me a percentage. Because I know other people are going to look to it and click and they're going to want to use some of the tools Bala uses. So of course. We should make some money from it. But I think that's a flex your muscle kind of thing. Yeah. Who is your favorite sub stack writer? I like Emily Austin. Don't know her. No. I actually want to read her book, but I've just been seeing – she's somebody I follow.

56:13Who's your favorite? I'm like, I need to – Diana, who we just saw, was great too. She has like a very whimsical one. I was actually going to say like I relate to that and I do really like it and I feel like she writes it from the heart, so I like hers. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not a big Substack early. Do you have Smart Rich on there? I have a newsletter that's like the Bible. Oh, yeah. I follow that. Yeah. I love that. Yeah, but it's not on Substack. But I think I thought that was a Substack. No. Because you get emailed from them. Yeah. You know, so I think I probably thought that was one. No. It doesn't need to be if you have your own.

56:41Yeah. The only thing you might be missing is acquiring that customer because I just launched mine and most of the people have come from Substack. So that's the one thing I actually, yeah. So you might just copy paste it there because what do you, why not? I did say to my sister the other day, I was like, I feel like we are missing out on that. Like if you followed me and then people are like, who is Natalie following on Substack? Then they would follow me automatically. So for us to acquire a customer is actually like a lot harder. Yeah. But I think that for some reason, the way that like ours is formatted is now because I started it so long ago before everybody got sub stack that it's like iconic kind of and people are like, if you didn't have your mood board and like all the things on it, it wouldn't be the newsletter anymore.

57:20And you have your podcast. Yeah. So you don't need all the media. It's no, you know, you need like a couple. But I'm going to start following that girl that you said. Okay. Last question. What is your personal mission statement? Oh, personal mission statement. Let's think. I have one for you. like just based on your mom, your mom life is like to empower women that like you can do it all and look good while doing it. Oh, I like that. Like I just feel because I do really mean what I say and I haven't actually, not that people that have been on the podcast aren't girls, but like you, I just feel like are so not competitive.

57:56You're so grounded in who you are. And I think it starts with like you being a mom so early on in Bala's journey that like you just had bigger things to worry about from the day you started, but you really are a girl's girl. And you really have like built such a big business while being a mom and like being married and having it all. So I feel like that should be your mission statement. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. To empower women to have it all and look good doing it. To empower women to have it all and look good doing it. I like it. Okay. Well, we just solidified Natalie Holloway's mission statement on Hot Smart Rich.

58:31I really like it. Thank you so much for coming on and being so honest. It's honestly conversations like this that I feel like will truly empower women to like build businesses they're passionate about and just go after what they want and look good doing it. So thank you so much. I'm so happy you came on. I'm so honored. Where can people find you? Thank you. Um, at Natalie Holloway on Instagram or at Bala. Okay. Love it. Plug the brand. Yeah. Thank you so much. And we really appreciate it, Natalie. Thank you.

59:05You