Peanut President: The Pressures and Identity Crisis of Being a Pregnant CEO!

25:00But when you become a mum, you actually go through that again. And it's called matrescence. And I had never heard that word before I first became a mum. And now that I'm aware of what matrescence is, like the reason why I was scared is because I'm currently going through matrescence. Yeah, to just like summarize it in one sentence. And it's crazy to me that like you're a smart woman and you've not heard what matrescence is and neither had I. And I think if the world was more aware of matrescence, it would make postpartum and becoming a mum make much more sense because it talks about all the psychological, social and physical change that you go through when you become a mum and there's so much going on in your brain at this moment.

25:48Like I'm currently wired to just be thinking about my infant, which is how it really should be. And so I've pulled myself out of my little matrescence hole for a second to do this. And you do have to remind yourself who you are. Postpartum is a very vulnerable period. And I think it's really important to surround yourself with people you feel comfortable with, people that remind you, like my boss did coming into this, like, you don't need to shrink yourself. Fix your nail, go get your hair done. You're a fucking badass. You can do this. There's an amazing book about this called Matrescence. And it talks about the fact that, you know, we're kind of taught to feel like once where a mum maybe were less than capable.

26:40And this, you know, there's a lot around this space that I've had to work through. Motherhood isn't a setback. It is a superpower. And it's led to me doing the most amazing things I've ever done in my career. But it took a lot of challenging the status quo for me to really get comfortable with that and to back myself and to keep making, like, brave decisions, I suppose. If eczema is unpredictable, but you can flare less with EPCLESS. A once-monthly treatment for moderate to severe eczema. After an initial four-month or longer dosing phase, about four in ten people taking EBCLIS achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks.

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30:05That's B-E-E-H-I-I-V.com slash HSR with code HSR30. You made a very conscious decision to always create and market products that involve women, but the company that you founded after Bumble was around women's bodies and women's content. Sunroom is a company that I co-founded, and it was a content monetization platform. We really wanted to sit in the space between OnlyFans and Instagram. We felt like many more creators could be making money from their content, but it didn't feel like the right products existed for them. And we went through a lot of validating before we dove headfirst into that.

30:50We surveyed every influencer I knew in Australia. I basically surveyed and asked them, have you thought about using OnlyFans? Have you thought about putting your content behind a paywall? and this was in 2020. So the rise of OnlyFans, people were in lockdown, it was booming, Beyonce was talking about it in a song and I was very surprised when all these creators are saying, yes, I have thought about using OnlyFans but I'm worried about how it would affect my personal brand. That bothered me, you know, that more and more women could be making more money but this stigma is holding them back from going on OnlyFans.

31:25I want to do something about that. And so my co-founder, she, Lucy Mort is her name, she was one of the first employees at Hinge and she actually designed the Hinge product. So we came from these similar backgrounds and we both wanted to keep having these big careers. And so we both moved to LA. We raised venture capital. We raised$7 million over three rounds. And we built this product that ended up paying out millions of dollars to the women on it. And earlier this year, we sold it to FanFix, which are very similar to us, but just winning. They were just winning. It kind of felt like if you can't beat them, join them.

32:06And so we worked on this acquisition for quite some time where basically it was like the back end of Sunroom ended up almost being copied and pasted onto FanFix. So all of our creators could continue to make money on their platform, but we ended up running a full M &A process, speaking to every single one of our competitors, speaking to social networks, speaking to creator agencies. And we were ultimately looking for where is a place our creators can go and actually thrive even more than they've been thriving on Sunroom. and FanFix had just built out a feature set that was more sophisticated than ours in certain ways and in ways that kind of automated that process for creators because these platforms can be pretty hands-on.

32:53It's been cool actually to see some of our creators. One of the things we're really curious about is will our creators go there and actually make more money? And I was just looking at a creator the other day who went from making 20 grand a month on Sunroom to making 50 grand a month on fanfics. So that's been really great to see, okay, we picked a product that actually does have even more power than ours to unlock financial opportunities for women. So the content on Sunroom, OnlyFans meets Instagram. So what type of content was allowed on the platform? So what was different about Sunroom is that we actually created an app.

33:29So most of the products in this space aren't apps. Like FanFics isn't an app, OnlyFans isn't an app. We wanted to create an app because we wanted to make it easier for creators to actually talk to their audience, upload content on the go for people to get push notifications, all of that stuff. Once you create an app, you are bound by Apple's content guidelines. So Apple don't allow any explicit, like overtly sexual content on their products. Our differentiator when it came to Instagram was we were really sick of women's bodies being moderated in a way that wasn't fair. So like your plus size, you show too much skin, your content's removed.

34:07You're black, your content's removed. You're talking about childbirth, your content's removed. You show a bit of side boob, your content's removed. And it's automated. So with Sunroom, we moderated with real humans. So we could actually allow women to show up and speak more openly about women's issues. So there was a lot of education around like sex positive topics, relationships, periods, birth, things that are censored on Instagram. And we also allowed women's nipples. So we didn't view, it was kind of like free the nip built into a product. But that's as far as you could take it. It couldn't be sexual in nature, but a woman just standing topless by a lake, no worries.

34:54We would allow that. And so it was sensual, but it wasn't hard, hardcore at all. And that's what our users loved. They wanted to find a place that allowed them to express themselves more freely than they were on Instagram. There are so many creators living in fear on Instagram that one next post will lead to them losing their audience. Like we had many creators that had lost Instagram accounts at like 50 ,000 followers because they'd spoken too openly about childbirth or because they'd spoken too openly about breastfeeding or boobs. So we wanted to solve that problem. So with the content, the topless content on Sunroom, it's not just breastfeeding.

35:40It's also just for creators that want to monetize their breasts. Talk to me a little bit about that. Yeah. So I know what you want me to talk about. So I got this DM once from this guy. I'd posted a bikini pic on Instagram and the DM said something like, I can't remember it exactly, but it was, you're an exec. Do you think you should be doing, you know, do you think you should be posting pics like this? And it just really grinded my gears because I think, again, it comes back to people wanting women to be one dimensional when we're many things. And this is what Hot, Smart, Rich is about. Like you can be sexy until we still be taken seriously.

36:20You can be hot, smart and rich. You can post photos of your boobs on the internet and still be respected. That is what I loved about Sunroom. And that's what I really wanted to embrace myself. And so one of the things about Sunroom was we actually built anti-screenshot technology and we patented it. So you might've been on Netflix or Hulu or something, and you've tried to screen record and it won't let you, it'll show you a black screen. We applied that kind of technology on Sunroom, and it was the first time that had ever been done to consumer uploaded content. And I always, and my co-founder, we always felt like, you know what, if women are going to open up more on our product and be vulnerable about all aspects of their life, as well as charge a premium for that, we cannot have this content being pirated like that's one of the biggest issues with a lot of the other products is that do we have the baby right here so for some context you see we have a new little cute addition into the room mr bobby he is we think the first baby to ever breastfeed live on a podcast that's crazy which is crazy so chat gpt told me um seven weeks postpartum We wanted to normalize the conversation of women doing it all.

37:38So we wanted to have him join us. We need more babies in boardrooms and podcast studios. So he is us taking his step towards that. But he also doesn't take a bottle. So we have no choice. He must be with me at all times. Anyway. Okay. And it's ironic that we're talking about me posting my boobs on the internet as I now breastfeed him. But I guess that's how I feel. You know, it's women's breasts have been sexualized when this is actually what they're meant for. They grow life, you know, and so I don't think women should be penalized for having boobs. And I think we should be able to embrace our sensuality and our sexuality.

38:17And I felt like if I was founding a product where women were going to open up more about themselves and share more of themselves, I needed to feel comfortable doing that too. I needed to back my own product, back our security measures, back our anti-screenshot technology. And it was an amazing moment because I made about seven grand that month. From your boobs. On Sunroom, from my boobs, which was more than I was paying myself a month at the time. And there, nothing changed. You know, I was still respected. No one looked at me any differently to my knowledge. not to rely on my wider team felt.

39:00But I think I'm sitting here in a privileged position saying that, you know what I mean? Like that might not be the same for all women, but that's also what I want to help change. And so I think we need more people speaking about this and more people not being afraid to embrace every side of themselves. And I think that's what Hot Smart Rich literally does. Like women have been told you can't be hot, smart and rich. Pick one, Pick a lane. Oh, no, she's so hot. Like, she must be dumb. And then you realize they're not dumb. There, I guess, historically has been like jealousy and society has taught you that, yeah, you can't be many things all at once.

39:36So it, I guess, was a bit hot, smart, rich of me to have done that. Very hot, smart, rich of you. Very brave of you, which is, I think, the reason I brought you on. Walk me back to the moment that you first pressed upload. Like, how did you feel? What were you worried about? I actually don't think I felt that scared in the moment because I'd also been influenced by our creators. I'd been watching how our creators were showing up on our own product and how free they were and how liberated they were and how confident they were. So I was also made to feel comfortable by kind of watching their lead.

40:13And I'd never really immersed myself amongst creators like that that was so wild and free in the past. So it was cool to witness a different group of women. So, yeah, it was like, I guess, again, my opinions of things comes back to always being open minded and kind of asking where judgment may stem from or why you may feel a certain way. And I, yeah, I was made to feel comfortable by them and our product. And now it comes back to that famous Maura line from Schitt's Creek where she's like, take a thousand nude photos, you know, and you really should before you become a mum because your boobs can really change.

40:58So I'm very happy that I posted them on the internet and I'm very happy that I made money off them whilst they looked a certain way. and I have a great bank of content to look back on if I need to remind myself, which I don't really want to, of what my body looked like before. Was there any investor pushback? No, because that's what they loved about our product and our mission and the fact that we were women creating this in a certain niche. This is a good question because it also comes back to when I first became a mum, I was worried maybe investors would judge me. Maybe they would think I'm less capable.

41:41But I think when you have a very strong mission, you attract investors that are aligned with that. It automatically weeds out the ones that would have a problem with it. I think that's what having a strong mission does. It protects your brand from certain things. So, yeah, we had incredible investors that, yeah, loved that about us and the product. Why do you think society has normalized sexualizing women's bodies to the extent that we have, but we still shame the most biological process that they were actually made to do, which is breastfeeding? there's this book called erotic capital and it actually talks about the fact that if women were celebrated and allowed to embrace every single part of their sensuality and sexuality we would just trump men in all aspects of life because men are naturally more i guess like motivated by women's bodies in that kind of a way.

42:41And so that's why sex work and things like that have been so heavily stigmatized to limit us and restrict us. And I think that you can then feel that once you're in a corporate environment as well. Like you might feel like you need to dress yourself down or again, embrace every part of yourself. So I think it ultimately just comes back to the patriarchy, unfortunately. But I think that, again, like podcasts like this, lines like Hot, Smart, Rich, seeing women out there being many things all at once and not being afraid to shy away from every part of themselves helps to normalize that because, yeah, it just exists to restrict us, I think.

43:25So you sold your company to FanFix, you're 30 weeks pregnant, and you announced that you're now the president of Peanut. peanut michelle the founder of peanut she had come to you you had reached out to her to be a consultant yeah when did you disclose to her that you were actually pregnant in the process of interviewing yeah so the very first conversation that we had i was about nine or ten weeks pregnant and i was having some complications so i didn't actually know i didn't know a hundred percent if it was going to work out. And so I remember sitting there feeling like, oh, I desperately want to tell her, but I just don't know if I should bring this up in this moment.

44:08And then I thought very hard about it because I used to give the advice to women that you should wait until you have a contract in your hand before disclosing that you're pregnant if you are going through an interview process. And so I thought hard about that and reached the conclusion that if I held on to that, I was perpetrating the stigmas that being pregnant makes me less competent or less desirable, which I know isn't a reality. So again, it's about figuring out like, why do you feel like you should hold on to this within this moment? And so the next conversation I had with her, I told her and I also felt like, of course, I'm working for a femtech company, so we should be practicing what we preach.

44:54but I think it's important to see representation, to normalise it everywhere. But I also felt like if you're pregnant and going through an interview process, you also want to make sure that you are not going to end up in an environment that doesn't respect parenthood and isn't going to look after you once you're in the door. And I think that's what you might end up discovering if you do hold onto it. So it's better to be upfront and figure it out whilst you're going through the process, because companies that don't respect parenthood and do discriminate don't deserve brilliant women. So those are kind of the things I was thinking about when I was going through that process.

45:33And when I told Michelle, she just responded in the most textbook perfect way ever, which is kind of what I knew would happen, but it just reinforced. What did she say? She said, this is absolutely, makes you even more perfect for the role. This is kismet is the word she used and was just really supportive the whole way through. And, you know, I stepped into the role, worked for two months, and then I'm taking paid leave right now. And I feel very grateful to have this moment to have been able to secure what I would call is my dream job at 30 Weeks Pregnant. But then also to be celebrated for being pregnant and being a mum along the way.

46:13Like pregnancy should be celebrated. and supported.

46:18Michelle Battersby:Do you think that that works to hire any role at any company at any life stage though? Yes. And it's because stepping into this role at 30 Weeks Pregnant, it clarified three leadership lessons for me and they go beyond just the femtech space. The first one is that motherhood is an accelerator. It teaches you resilience, empathy, compassion, ruthless prioritization, I think organizations need to stop asking how to accommodate mothers and ask how can we learn from others because those qualities are so important for modern day leadership. So that's the first thing. The second thing is that my lived experience is not separate to my work.

47:03It actually informs it. It informs my strategy and as women it's incredibly obvious, as I said before, when a product has been built by men for women. So you need that lived experience to show up. It just deepens the product. It deepens your ability to gather supporters, not just users. And the third thing, we need representation. So we need to see motherhood at the table and in leadership positions. Otherwise, we will continue to show women that there's a false choice between career and motherhood when there isn't. And I think those three leadership lessons should be applied to any business anywhere.

47:49You have been reported saying that you feared pregnancy would destroy your ambition and slow down your career. What would you say to the same Michelle who wrote that? Motherhood clarified my ambition. It channeled it in a way that it had never been channeled before. Motherhood does crack you open and it does change you because of matricence. It's impossible to go through this and not change. You should change. That's like saying you're not going to change through adolescence. You know, change is inevitable. Change is the one guarantee you will get from motherhood. But that used to scare me if I heard someone say that.

48:33If I had heard someone say to me, you were going to change tremendously through motherhood. I used to think change equaled loss. It equaled less than. It equaled less ambitious, less successful, less of a gun. It doesn't at all. The new version of you that awaits on the other side of motherhood is a version 10 times more powerful than the version of you before. You just need to not be scared to embrace her. Like she's waiting. She's going to fucking do great things for you. Don't be scared of her. And I think it took me a while to accept that. It actually took me about 14 months postpartum with my first to admit I am different and I am not better or worse.

49:21I mean, I do think I'm better, but like, I'll say I'm not, I'm not worse than the version I was, I was before. Like a lot of people say you'll lose yourself in motherhood. It's actually such a privilege to lose yourself in a way. You don't lose parts of yourself that you need necessarily in this next version. So I think to my former self, I would just say your ambition will be clarified, refined, and it will lead to you making so much more intentional and purposeful moves than you would have had the guts to previously. Like it upped my bravery in a way. And you will change, but don't be scared of that change.

50:05The change isn't negative. It's necessary and it makes you more powerful. Like motherhood, again, it's not a setback. It's a superpower. We just need to continue to do a lot of work systemically to allow women to like continue to embrace that and feel good about it. I think that's also why your story is so important for people to hear, because you've also talked about the fact that you weren't even sure you wanted to be a mom. I thought it would hold me back and I thought that it would ruin my career. And many women feel that way. And it's because we have been made to feel like we can have it all.

50:46So we pursue these really big, bold, ambitious careers. and then we get to a moment where we do want to have children and we feel really worried about what that will mean for us. And because our identity has been wrapped up in these careers, we're worried about the identity loss, if we'll be penalised for taking time away from the office. And I actually ran a poll on my Instagram and I asked, do you feel like having a baby would jeopardise your career? And 86 % of people said yes. and there were probably 4 ,000 women that responded. So that's like a legit survey, albeit.

51:22Michelle Battersby:People will pay for that number. Yeah, yeah. Albeit I do have like a curated type of audience. But just knowing that so many other women were fearing becoming a mum and felt like there was a choice, they had to choose career or motherhood, I felt like I had to be very loud about how I was navigating that. What we really need is for society to catch up with us. Like that is the biggest problem. Society has not grown like the way we have grown. Infrastructure hasn't kept up with us. Imagine a world where childcare is free and accessible and women aren't penalised for leaving the workforce to have kids.

52:05That would be incredible. And that is what we need more and more people working towards. And there are agencies waving this flag, you know. There are places in the world that have such better support for parents than we have, especially in the US. But that's where the fear comes from because many of us aren't in safe, supportive environments to pursue motherhood and a career at the same time. And many of us are in environments where it doesn't feel like a choice. It feels like you're being forced one way or another because of how expensive things are or what your household can support. so there's a lot I think you know obviously that contributes to women feeling like they can go after both things because it's not necessarily a question of can you do both at the same time you can but there are systemic barriers that make that harder for people talk to me about the dynamic between you and bell and the support that he offers you to be able to have it all I think it's really important if you are someone who wants to pursue your career and motherhood at the same time you can't be with an incompetent man that's what I've recently really realized you must be with a competent man they can look after the kids just as well as you can when you're not there you can't be with a man who's like what should I pack he settles better with you I don't know how to do that you have to be with a man who is going to step up and help you manage and carry the mental load and co-parent, not babysit your kids.

53:44So we have a very equal split when it comes to parenting and the household. He actually does more around the house than I do because I'm the one breastfeeding 20 and 24 seven. I'm the one physically doing some things that he can't. So he does more of other things than me. And that has really, really helped because both of us want to have bold, big careers and you both need to be pulling your weight in the house in order to achieve that. That wasn't just automatic, by the way. He didn't just like step up and know how to do that. There were a couple of moments in the early days where the incompetent man card was played.

54:30And I remember thinking, no, like the resentment will build so quickly if this continues. Like I can't, I don't want to feel like this again. And so I just called it out at that moment and it's never happened again. And he has just always been there, always stepped up. And I think if you're someone listening to this and maybe you feel like you're stuck in that cycle of a bit of incompetence being played by your partner. At the time I was figuring all this out, I actually saw a TikTok and it spoke about the fact that you can't micromanage your partner. And as a mum, you're just wired, I think. You'll be watching them do something and you'll be thinking, oh, that is not right.

55:16You know, what are you doing? And this TikTok had a line and it was, you need to let them struggle. And I'm so glad I saw that at the time because it just stopped me from correcting. Like I stopped hovering, I stopped micromanaging, I stopped correcting. And I would say to myself, just let him struggle. And that meant that he learned it all. You know, I don't think you want to try and be the expert on your children. Like you want to allow things to be done differently, feel comfortable with that. And I think that's really helped in me not feeling like I carry the mental load alone and that I actually have room in my brain to think about my job.

55:55There's this research study that shows that the first a thousand days of a child's life is the most important, especially linked to the role of the father and of the mother. And I feel like we hear so often about what the mother's role is in the first a thousand days of the child's life, right? Especially for the first at least 365 days, You're like breastfeeding to your point alone in a room with them 24-7. Like what is the context of your male partner's role in your child's life through those first 1 ,000 days, at least for your first child, Alfie, who's now two? Two? One and a half. One and a half.

56:32And obviously even just with Bobby at seven weeks, like what is the dynamic that he has? Because we don't often hear about that for fathers. I think once you add a second child to the mix, your partner has to step up again because you are chained to the newborn. And right now, Bill is really managing Alfie 100 % of the time compared to what I'm doing because I'm constantly with Bobby. But I also think we talk about this a lot at Peanut. Like mothers in particular are constantly made to feel like they have to make the right choice. You know, you have to do everything perfectly and we're judged and there is so much data out there and there's so much content online, you know, telling you what you should do and what's best.

57:23And I think at the end of the day, it really is about survival in those first, that first year in particular. And I think you really have to go easy on yourself and not judge yourself. Like I think about mum guilt a lot. I think about that word mum guilt. And sometimes I get women DM me talking about how guilty they feel for returning to work. And I wonder, has society told us that we need to feel guilty for returning to work or that it's narcissistic to care about our careers? and I actually don't really feel guilty for prioritizing my work alongside being a mum. I know that means I spend a bit less time with my kids but I don't think about time as the measure of my effectiveness as a parent.

58:13I think about being present and being the best version of myself and showing up as a quality parent and being there for them you know emotionally as opposed to how many hours of a day I'm with them. And so I think when it comes to the roles of parents, I think it's just doing the best that you can. And whilst the science might try to tell us there is a best way, there's really just your way and staying afloat mentally and physically in those early years. Are you attached to expectations? I don't think so. The reason I ask is because when you were pregnant with Bobby, your partner had to move away.

59:00He, professional athlete, was playing in a different city and you had a pregnancy solo.

59:07Michelle Battersby:Did you have an expectation about what that was going to be? I've always said I didn't have much of an expectation, but then it just slapped me in the face. I guess my expectation was that it actually wouldn't be that hard, which is jokes on me. It's the hardest thing I've ever done. Being a mom is harder than raising money and having my own company. I mean, maybe I shouldn't say harder, but like, it's just, it's just different. Because that word scares me, if I'm being honest, like I'm sitting here at 33 years old, like I'm at the very beginning of the height of my career, right? Like this is it.

59:41It's about to all start. And I've worked my fucking ass off since I was graduated since I was even before graduated college I've been a hustler and I'm hearing this word it gets harder and I'm like it's already so fucking hard I can't imagine adding another layer to my life to make it hard so that word that all moms use terrifies me yeah I completely relate to that because I remember when I was pregnant with Alfie I actually reached out to a bunch of entrepreneurial women that I really admired. And I basically tried to get them to tell me it's not that hard. That's what I was looking for. I was looking for someone to say it's not that hard.

1:00:24And I couldn't get that answer from any of them. And now I understand why, because it's like, if what you're doing is here and it's hard, it's not like motherhood, like slots in up here. It just like slots in here right next to it on the hardness level. So when you're doing two things that are fucking hard at the same time, it of course makes everything feel harder, you know? But I think you just figure it out. I don't know how, but we do just figure it out and you just get through it. And I suppose the interesting thing with motherhood is once you've been doing something that's hard, like today, getting ready for this.

1:01:09I literally had Bobby strapped to me. He's crying, half asleep. I'm trying to feed him. The clock's ticking down. I'm like, shit, I need to do my hair, makeup. I need to think of a couple of smart things to say. I need to get my head in the game. This is hard. This is a moment where this would be a hell of a lot easier if I didn't have a newborn strapped to my chest right now and no one around to help me. But by the time I got in the car and he's asleep, the level of accomplishment you feel, it's a different level to even how you feel about your biggest career wins. It just, it's like a warmth almost for making it through.

1:01:55I never want to say something that scares people, But I also feel like the greatest gift we can give other women is to be real about what motherhood is like. But just because it's hard doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. It's hard to start a company. It's hard to raise money. It's hard to do what you're doing. But you're doing it anyway and you make it through each day. And like having a startup, I saw this line and it said having a startup is like being slapped in the face with a fry pan every day and just having to get used to it. And so it's like you are building skills that make it easier to be a mom in a way like context switching.

1:02:32I think being in a startup and being pulled in all different directions and being able to context switch, that helps with motherhood because it's like, OK, I can be at my desk focusing on this. Then I can hear a cry and breastfeed and like I'll go straight back, you know. So there are definitely complementary skills, but it's just a different ballgame, I think, being a mom as well. and I think women need to know that it's hard and that like you go through matricence and that you change and everyone says it's worth it, you know, and it is worth it and I wish we could get into the nuance of what makes it worth it but it's just kind of indescribable and the scary thing about it is you don't get it till you're in it, you know, so there's no going back.

1:03:20But you just have to believe in yourself and that you will rise to the occasion like you've risen to the occasion in your career. And it's also totally fine if you end up having kids and your priorities completely change and you don't want to prioritize your career anymore. Like there is so much power in that, I think. There's so much power in taking a career pause, in working on different businesses. Like you'll probably have kids and you will unlock this entire other category of businesses that you will want to get involved in. Like there's so much growth there. I think another really hard thing that a lot of people probably listening to this are considering is we've over glamorized this girl boss, this founder mentality.

1:04:05And it is so hard. And there are moments where you realize like maybe this isn't the right thing for me. I think it's a big fear for a lot of people to think about going back and admitting defeat, going and working for someone else. You obviously had a successful exit with your company. So it's maybe not the exact apples to apples. But talk to me a little bit about what it took for you to go from being that founder, entrepreneur, CEO, to now going and being an employee of a company. Hmm. Yeah. So I'm currently the president of peanut, which I guess for anyone who doesn't know what peanut is, it's actually the biggest online community for mothers in the world.

1:04:49There's over 5 million women on it. You can track your pregnancy growth milestones. It has forums. And when I was going through matricence the first time dying, wondering what the fuck was going on in my life, I actually downloaded peanut. It was how I made my first mum friends. And to be honest, You need that like companion when you're locked in a house for the past seven weeks. Like I have been breastfeeding and that's what peanut is for so many women. So I think it's worth noting that context because in terms of transitioning out of running my own company and then deciding I was going to work for someone else, it wasn't necessarily about am I going to continue down this founder path or am I going to be an employee?

1:05:34It was the fact that I had allowed myself to embrace this new version of me so much. I'd really challenged myself on where should my career go next. I think one of the most amazing things about selling a company isn't what their outcome is. It's actually the freedom. It's the fact that you can really go anywhere afterwards. That's what I'd always wondered. at the end of starting my own company, will I hold so much value? I can kind of pick like the best next thing for myself. So it was interesting to challenge that. And I had just become obsessed with thinking about motherhood and speaking about motherhood and talking about career and the juggle and things like that.

1:06:19So Peanut just felt so right to me. And I don't think being entrepreneurial is a role. It's not a role. It's not a title. It's a mindset. And I had been allowed to be an entrepreneur when I was at Bumble and it was the most fulfilling experience of my life. I think you've won if you're working for someone else and you are trusted, respected, you love the product, you use the product and you can be an owner. That's like the best setup, I think. And you can feel that way in your own company, but you can also feel that way in other people's companies. And I just loved, well, love Michelle Kennedy.

1:06:59Like she'd really been there for me throughout my whole career. She was actually on the board at Bumble. She came up with the name Bumble and she then invested in Sunroom. And so she's really been there, you know?

1:07:11Michelle Battersby:She's seen you. Yeah. And I've seen her. I saw what she did after Bumble. I saw her create Peanut. The fact that I'd actually used it myself and it had really saved me. I just knew that my next step had to be something that actually mattered. It had to be something which could help women in their darkest times because motherhood can be really isolating and really lonely and peanut is there to solve that and there really aren't any other products like it. And it just felt like a no-brainer. It felt like everything I was looking for. So I still feel like I get to operate like a founder, but I get to do it within someone else's business, which means there's even less personal risk for me, to be honest.

1:08:01Like I have a bit of security. I felt it was like a good feeling at this stage in my career as well. And I also wanted to get my hands on a big, big brand, on a brand that can make bold statements and kind of partner with anyone in this baby motherhood space and Peanut can do that. So it feels nice to like get my hands on a product like that again. Yeah. I love hearing that because I think vulnerably like HSR has become so linked to me. Like it is when you think of Maggie, you think of hsr now right do you agree with that 100 you are hsr yeah and for me because it is such a part of my identity i can't even put my mindset right now into a place of like if that didn't work out what would i do and i feel like i would feel a lot of pressure to start something again because it's like proving people wrong it was there any of that that you had or not because you had a successful exit?

1:09:06I know what you mean. I guess it comes back to challenging the status quo and just being okay with doing things where you don't really care what someone else would think. Like I definitely had a brief moment where I was like, oh, is this my only choice now? Do I need to found another company? And I spent a lot of time thinking about what sort of company I would build if I was to do it again. And to be honest, I would want to build a peanut. And so maybe that's why it makes so much sense also like I think I just really could see the power of the peanut product and again it was like why would I try and recreate this amazing thing that already exists and is helping so many women I want to help blow it up and like join a team that are already like on the ride and kind of help take it from strength to strength so yeah I think there's always that fear of like, whilst I was doing sunroom, I often fantasized, I guess, about what the end would be like and what is a win or a loss.

1:10:13And again, I kind of reached this conclusion that there's just no bad ending when you have founded a business. Like even if you start a business and it never makes any money and it fails within a year, you have increased your own capital, your own personal capital and your own worth. You'll be able to go into any interview and provide insights and no one else can. You have proven that you've done something that many people don't have the guts to do. And you also could take those learnings and push them into another business. Like I think it's about how you operate through the process. Like I kind of loved when we got to the end of sunroom and our lead investor was like, if you guys do something again, like we'd reinvest in you.

1:10:58And I think that is kind of a nice way to, to, to walk away. But yeah, I'd be so excited to see what you would do with hot, smart, rich. Like if you were also a mom, not saying that's what you need to do. You know, it's not, it's not the be all and end all. It's just this really transformative thing that like expands your brain and will make you see things you've never seen before. And it'll just make your company even more powerful if that's what you want it to do. You know, I think it comes back to choice. And I think this is why it's so amazing if we imagine a world where society cared as much about caregiving and motherhood as it did capitalism.

1:11:42Like, that would actually be better for the economy, you know, and I think it would really help women when it comes to wondering how they will navigate career and motherhood. There's just a lot of work that needs to be done. A lot of 20-year-olds listening to this, I get this question all the time. They're like, I'm ambitious. I want to be like you, but I'm just self-conscious. I don't know what's the first step. For someone that's listening to this that wants to be like you, where do they start? You do need to have a solid risk appetite. I have made moves in my career that people have literally said to my face, why'd you do that?

1:12:20Like when I left Bumble, people were like, oh, they were judging me for that decision. When I started Sunroom, mentors and people I really respected told me it was a bad idea. They told me I was going to ruin my reputation by starting a company in the creator economy space and Sunroom allowed for slightly more sensual content and people told me that that was a risky place to be. And I remember one mentor explicitly saying to me, you'll never be on a board if you go into this kind of area. I think it's how you respond to people doubting you. So in those moments where people told me I was never going to be on a board and that was a bad idea, I didn't see that as a reason to not take the scary move.

1:13:04That actually lit a fire in me even more and made me think, okay, if I can help curate this brand in a way that changes that person's perception, then this is a powerful full product. And I'm motivated by marketing in a way that changes people's perceptions. So I think you have to be okay with rejection and doubters. And it's how those doubts make you feel because some feedback is warranted you know totally you might not have a good idea yeah you know so it's not about ignoring all of it but you have to be comfortable doing things that other people might not be comfortable with but it does take I think if you looked at what I'd done on a piece of paper maybe the sacrifices I made at each juncture wouldn't be as obvious as like moving back in with your parents, getting a retail job, leaving a very comfortable salary and other things on the table and paying yourself 55 grand and moving to another country.

1:14:08Feeling vulnerable and insecure, but still backing yourself and reaching out to people that you respect and admire and just seeing where it goes. I just believe everything works out as it's meant to. And even if you failed at any of those moments of putting yourself out there and being brave or asking the question or feeling like you take a backward step, it always leads to a leap in future. Like I have on paper probably taken backward steps knowing it will lead to a giant leap somewhere down the line. Okay. Well, I need to stop there and just do some rapid fire. Cause that was like a sermon. I love it.

1:14:46Michelle Battersby:Michelle. Yeah. Oh fuck. I'm scared. No, these are fun. What's the last thing you put on your credit card? Oh my God. Of course it was my hair. My hair yesterday. How much was it? $513. Oh, God, it looks amazing. She's so good. What is the last most expensive thing you put on your credit card? The next most expensive was I bought a pair of boots. They cost$234. Yeah. Love it. From where? From that Dolce Vita. They're like a Kate. Is that how you say that, brand. Like a Kate jupe. Okay. What's more exhausting being a woman online or being a mom? Oh, it's fucking exhausting being a woman online.

1:15:30It's weird that I'm thinking like, I mean, physically it's more exhausting being a mom running around with a toddler, hectic, but sometimes being online, I'm the kind of person where a comment here or there, I will stew on that. Like I don't have the skills when it comes to dealing with online, whereas I'm really working on myself when it comes to motherhood. So maybe that will make you feel less scared of being a mother as well. Like online's pretty exhausting. Employee, founder, executive.

1:16:01Michelle Battersby:Oh, which do I prefer? Yeah. You can only have one for the rest of your life. Executive. Ooh, so you're exactly where you are meant to be. Yeah, because you can have skin in the game as an exec. Yeah. And security. Yeah. But I've never worked for a startup where I didn't own equity except for one. Yeah. What is your favorite women founded company that's not peanut or sunroom or bumble? I really like, is it cake? Those nipple shields? That's exactly who I thought you were going to say. Yeah. I love what they are doing. I think they are setting a brilliant example for women founded businesses. And this is like what I love about peanut too.

1:16:40It's like, don't just say you care about women. Fucking prove it. A lot of people pretend and I'd love to call the pretenders out. I'd love to create a database, you know.

1:16:50Michelle Battersby:Say one here, Michelle. Yeah. So we'll give it to Cake Beauty because that's just incredible. I think they're about to take a month off. They give their whole team a month of paid leave right now. And they're paying for child care. Yeah. You can only pick one thing. What do you think your career has most been driven by? Timing, luck, skill. Timing. Because I believe luck isn't really a real thing. It's a combination of time and opportunity colliding at the same moment. That is what creates luck. There's still some skill in there. So I think it's timing. Favourite comfort creator?

1:17:37Hallie Batchelder. I just love how outrageous she is. and I just watch her live her life and I'm like, go off, girl. This is so unhealthy. Go on Sunroom and go off. Yeah, this is so unhealthy and I am so here for it. Okay, last one. What is an opinion about women that always gets you into trouble? Maybe I don't have one because I really try not to judge. I think motherhood has instilled that in me. like you really don't know the walk someone is walking, you know, whatever that line is. There's so much judgment out there when it comes to mums, like how you feed, what you do around sleep, like how you speak to your child.

1:18:26If you're in, if you're sending your kid to daycare, if you have a nanny, blah, blah, blah. So I like don't, I literally don't really judge anything about women's choices. Maybe the thing that gets me into trouble is I judge the people that judge them you know so like if someone's out there with a strong opinion around like formula or something like that I really despise that because I'm like you have no fucking clue how hard it is for some people to breastfeed like you cannot judge a woman's choices around certain things so maybe what gets me into trouble is how hard I judge the judges so maybe that means I actually am I'm touchmental.

1:19:09Michelle Battersby:Michelle Battersby, where can people find you? On Instagram, I guess. At Michelle Battersby. And sell it. Oh, really? Yeah, because it's a hard last name. I mean, I can't pronounce it. Okay. Do I need this for Michelle or just Battersby? Okay, Battersby. B-A-W-T-E-R-S-B-Y. And what can HSR help you with right now? Oh, I just, I need all, if you're a mom out there and you're not on Peanut, you need to be. And if you're a woman out there who is about to go through that transition, you also need to be on Peanut. Because even for me, I've got mum groups. You know, I've got the group chats where I can ask my friends things.

1:19:49But the other day I had a question which I just didn't even feel comfortable asking all the other mums. I was like, you know what, I need to do this incognito on Peanut, on a place where I won't be judged. And I just threw it out there. and I just I need I need the mums to know like there is a safe community full of women who get it and are going through it that you can go and doom scroll on and it's much better for your health than doing it on Instagram or TikTok so honestly I know it sounds biased but like it is a lifeline for so many women and you just need to know what's out there thank you so much for coming on hot smart rich we love you I love you thanks for having me

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