Sheena Zadeh, Founder of Kosas, On The Truth About Money, Divorce, Success, & What She Learned After Losing Everything

0:00bi

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1:03in case you missed it you're allowed to be hot smart and rich so let's get into it

1:14sheena is a day are you ready to get hot smart rich i am ready i can't believe that it's taken this long to meet you actually i know actually i have had a girl crush on you for years i'm so happy that you're here today because i feel like we have had parallel lives in so many different ways, but we really connected when everything was going on with the LA fires. I've been a fan of yours for a long time. And then you sent me a DM and I was like, Oh my God, this is my chance to like become like helpful and friends with this girl. And I don't know how comfortable you are to tell everybody, but I would love to just walk through from the beginning of 2025, what you've been dealing with and where you are right now, where you're living.

1:54I lost my house in the fire. My house was right on the border of Malibu and Palisades. And it was a really symbolic house because it was like the first one that I actually bought on my own. And it was just for me and my daughter. And we had gone through it. Like we really went through it over the last, she's 11 and a half. And from the time she was five until that moment, like we were very destabilized. And so that was the first time that we had this thing that was our own. And we were like, no one's going to be able to take it away from us. And, you know, we're not going to have to move. And then the whole house burned down.

2:31And it's been a really weird experience for me. I mean, obviously, there was like the acute, like severe, deep mourning phase. Like that was just, I was just a zombie walking around. I was completely out of my own body because it was just the shock of it. Yeah. And then as time has gone on, like I have been forced to face a lot of things. Like even my relationship with house and home, my relationship to things, the relationship to believing that like I'm the one who breathed life into that house to begin with and I'll be able to do it again. Yeah. Or the moments where I feel like just super overwhelmed by grief and people always say that it's in this nonlinear process and I've heard that, but now I know what that means.

3:13And then like the ultimate realization, which is it's actually not the worst thing that could have happened. There are way worse things that could happen. that's crazy so it's only been four months right yeah and where were you when you and your daughter found out that your house was just gone I was in Beverly Hills I immediately like right away when the fire started I was already in the evacuation zone yeah um yeah I raced home my dog was there I raced home I was pretty much the last car to get in on PCH it was the craziest thing I've ever seen. And I just had a few minutes. I got him and the doggie, Carl, and we ran away and it was so scary.

3:52Going through something like that, as you're building one of the biggest brands that exists, I would say in today's pop culture, beauty world. I mean, your brand has been around for 10 years now, correct? Or 11? We will turn 10 this year. 10 this year. So in your 10th year of business, you went through one of the most traumatic things, but you said something earlier where it's like you've been in a period of destabilization over the last, like since you started the brand or? Over the last five years, five to six years. Because building a business inherently is so unnerving. Your whole life is like you don't expect things to happen.

4:29So having like stabilization can be really important for entrepreneurs. But if you haven't had that, how do you get through that? It makes it a lot harder. Yeah. You know, it makes it like, luckily I had the first five years so that I could establish a sense of systems and this is the way that I do things and like I guess that feeling of I always know what to go back to yeah like I do know how to work right that's one thing I know how to do so that and that itself became the stabilizing force I think like that became the through line of the unstable period because that and my daughter were like two constants for me so you started the brand COSAS when your daughter was born or you were still pregnant?

5:15She was eight months old. She was eight months old. She was a baby. And you were like, I'm going to launch a clean, natural beauty brand that has four shades of lip gloss, correct? Lipstick. Lipstick. Okay. I mean, that in and of itself, as much as you said you had that foundation, like that is still what a lot of people would be so afraid to do. So you're with an eight month old baby and you're launching this brand. Like, Take us from how you got through that first five-year period. So I didn't – I don't even think I said launch. I don't know if I knew that word. I don't think I said it that way.

5:49We didn't have clean – I wasn't talking about that. I was so obsessed with just making product. And to this day, that's the place where I feel something, actually, where I don't think I get off on building a company or a business, but I really do. I guess I do in some ways, but I really, really do when it comes to making things. That's what really, that's like what moves me. And that's where I came from. I was like, I'm going to create these, this makeup. That's what I was thinking, which I always knew I was going to do. So it was like a calling. It wasn't a decision that I made. It was like from a very, very young age.

6:29Like that was the, I don't know, it came into my consciousness. Like, this is what I'm going to do, or this is what I wish I could do so bad. This would be my dream thing to do as a kid and then growing, which I never thought would really, because it was like a pipe dream. It was like the eighties and nineties. And then when it was time, the world was different. Like it became possible for me to actually do it. And I was like, you know what, this is something that I can create product and I can sell it because like I can do, put it on the internet and I don't have to make an entire collection and this doesn't have to be in a store.

7:01so I just did the least thing possible yeah and the smallest thing possible but that was really representative of who I was which all of that was wrapped up in these four lipsticks all of it like every thought idea everything about like the brand itself you could have seen it in those first four lipsticks when you were growing up you said this was like a calling like did you have that calling from when you were very little or it kind of came to you as you were evolving throughout being childhood, Gina, to getting into adulthood and be like, this is now what I want to do? I was called to makeup when I was very little.

7:36So like eight, nine, 10 years old. That's when I was called to makeup. And then I was called to starting my own brand at like 2021. Okay. And did you have like a super stable childhood? Like you didn't have disruption the way that you've experienced over the last five years? I didn't have, I had a, I wouldn't call it disruption, but I also wouldn't call it a super stable childhood. Is that a thing? Super stable? Yeah. I don't think, I think, you know, it's so funny is like, it's everything is all relative, right? Everything is like based on what you have experienced. I was even saying this recently, like I've had a lot of anxiety being away from home, traveling, having a lot of health problems and like getting this house.

8:16And like, all of those are such amazing things minus the health things. But when it was all happening at once, it was like an overwhelming anxious feeling. but if you put that next to like not having a home and losing all of your things that's the pills in comparison but I still think to your point there is no such thing because even what you don't know is like it can be relative to what other people experiencing doesn't mean that's not real for you if that makes sense yeah totally of course and I think like you get more tolerant of things like yeah I have developed like by the time I know people who are a lot younger than me who's who lost their house and they struggled with it more but like that's because I went through some already like pretty hard life things before I even got to losing my house.

8:57It's not the worst thing that's ever happened to me. Can you talk about what? I was just like, what's destabilizing? Like probably going through a divorce is the worst thing that's ever happened to me. I think that's like, that's almost like lighting your own house on fire in a weird way. Like it's really hard. What year did you get divorced? Was that in the year of COSAS? That was about five years in. It was four to five years in. Can you talk me a little bit about like what that process was like and why? And like, did it have anything to do with the business? No, it didn't have anything to do with the business.

9:28I was so excited to start my life and I was pretty young. I think I was 27. When you got married? When I met him, we were, I was 29 when we got married. I was 29 when I had my daughter, like right before my 30th birthday. And then I was 30 when I started the brand. And I, it was my family. Like I was so in love with my family that losing my family and my family home and all of the world that I'd created around it, that we had created around it, like the rupture of that, that almost took me out. Like that nearly killed me. I didn't, I, I'm really glad we're talking about this right now because like this is important for me because I've never even, I don't even know if I've ever said the word divorce publicly or like in any sort of way.

10:18I was terrified of the idea and I really refused to accept it for a really long time. But now I'm comfortable with it. Well, I'm very honored that you tell your story to me. And I think maybe it's because I've not been through a divorce, but I have called off an engagement and like it was not a world that we had built together, but it was a world I had built in my head. And there's still like this uncoupling, maybe not from like the same legal standpoint, but I remember my platform really took off because like I said to you off air, like I was so confused and so lost and I wanted to be this girl boss.

10:53Like I was in like that end of my twenties era where I was like, I want to build something for myself. And I remember looking at people like Emily Weiss and this beauty director of Vogue. And I had heard through the grapevine or maybe through Reddit, if it existed back then that like they had also called off engagements or gotten divorced and yet no one had talked about it. And so in my head, I was like, this means I'm a failure. Like before I had even really started picking up my career and like really running with it and doing great things, I already had this idea in my head that I had failed because something that nobody talked about was something that they, it felt like they were, it was shameful for them and they wouldn't talk about it.

11:30And so it was so interesting because I went from posting like B2B business stuff, like making small investments to like, as soon as I was just authentic on the internet about what it, what I was going through, that's when people were like, you are relatable because so many people are divorced or breaking up engagements, or they're even moving out with somebody that they've lived with for years. And to balance building a business and motherhood on top of that, to your point, that's probably almost more disruptive than to what you've just gone through. But the theme that I hear from you is like, you keep being able to push past almost what it feels like dead ends.

12:09Like someone that's listening to this, that is feeling like something is ending for them, whether it's a relationship or a parent or grief or whatever it is, like, what are you telling them that's helped you get through these things time and time again? I think it's actually like important to know that you can be going through this experience that on the outside looks like the, how mine has looked like it's been, there's many people that would want to trade places and be in this situation or be like, oh my god you're building this incredible brand and it's been so good for me professionally but there's a lot of personal sacrifice and that's part of it I think I I wish I knew on a deeper level what balance really means and what it looks like yeah and like where is that going to come from yeah because it's a balance is a give and take and I think like when I made the decision to let the company be as big as it needs to be, that swayed the balance in a certain direction.

13:09I guess what you choose to share or what you didn't choose to share during the moments, do you have any regrets about not talking about what you were going through? Or is it the right time to now start talking and normalizing your experience? I think I had to go through the process of really accepting it. Maybe it would have helped for me to talk about it a little bit, but I was truly not ready. And I was, um, I think that shameful word that you brought up because as a mom, especially like that was the biggest thing for me. Cause it was like the friends and the school and the families. And she was so young that we hadn't yet, like the families hadn't gotten divorced yet.

13:48Okay. What I didn't know was that like, don't worry, just hold on. Yeah. Now it's a totally different story. Now she's in middle school. So there's like tons of divorced families. I don't feel so alone in that story. But like with a kindergartner, it was like, oh, my God, like I'm the only one. I felt like I had a scarlet letter on my chest and nobody could find out about it. So there's no way I would have been able to talk about it at that time. And nor would I have known how to. I was so like busy being in the business. And I wasn't like the thing about being able to talk openly about things is that it does take some amount of practice to be able to just like say the things that you want to say.

14:27and I didn't have that at that time. Do you practice now like with friends and just people like this is the first time you said that you talked about your divorce publicly like what has that practice look like is that like therapy is that talking just to friends is that just sitting with yourself and I know you like to use your hands like writing things out and journaling like where where has that practice come from you? That's always been part of it so like in private I'm a very private person so like one-on-one that's how I connect with people therapy's always been a huge part of my story um my friends my close friendships they're like my childhood friends really like everyone in my life they're but they're people that those are the people who know me the real me like the truth the depths of it the whole entire essence because i think like what happens when you are a personal brand like there's some adjectives that like end up coming out about you and then but they don't they don't capture the essence always like they kind of do but there's it's not always for the whole world to know the entirety of your essence anyway.

15:23So it just becomes like entrepreneur, you know, mom, like successful brunette, like whatever you want to, however you want to describe a person. But I always talked about it in that regard. But in terms of like, in the context of like Sheena, the founder, I was like so many boundaries. There wouldn't be things that I would talk about because that to me felt like it needed to always be very polished and divorce wouldn't be that. Although we're talking about it, it's a very normal topic. Did you have an office for COSAS like five years ago when you were going through that? The office was at my house.

15:56Okay. Okay. And how many employees did you have at that time? I had, um, maybe like 15. Okay. At that time. Because that's not a small amount of people. No. The people, the people knew like that, that's not, there's an intimacy with the people you work with, obviously. Like those are, those people see what's going on like every single day. Those people were also there for me during the fire. Like incredibly. I think that they, um, I mean, they knew, like they know they did, they protected me during that time. Do the same 15 people that were there at COSAS five years ago, do they still work at COSAS?

16:33A lot of them do. So they're your family. Yeah. I mean, in a lot of ways, yes. But that's also hard. They're my collaborators. Being, I love that. You're such a good boss. I can tell already. Just that word collaborators. I actually listen very quickly to when people say they work for me or they work with me. If they're the boss, I'm always like, you have people that work with you. They don't work for you. Yeah. It's everyone's free will. We're like all making something together. Yeah. We're kind of like working on this project together. That's how I see it. But it is hard. And this is something that I think merges even just working in homes and the world that we live in, like especially having a personal brand, being a founder, you still have boundaries with people, right?

17:11You have to have some sort of structure or you wouldn't have been able to grow COSAS to where it is today. How many employees do you have today? We have about 80 now. How do you create that family environment where they can be there for you, but they're also your collaborators? And they also know that they're there to build something alongside of you and set those boundaries when you are going through something like a divorce, where inherently if you guys were working at your family home, like it is going to disrupt or affect their workflow. It was a different time then. I mean, those people were really like face-to-face with the whole situation and they sort of saw it unfold in some ways.

17:46Obviously, like there was my office was in my garage. So it wasn't in the main house. There was a little bit of separation. Like what's big for me now? Because it's like a lot more people. And I think that you're only going to be able to interact with like a certain number of people on a daily basis. It's not everyone. So I'm just a lot more clear about communicating about it. Like what are the values of the company? and then we act it, you know? Like I probably have like too many high values that disrupt the flow of the business sometimes, but like it's important to me. I care about certain things.

18:21So as you started to decide to build your personal brand, I actually talked to Diana Cohen about this when she was on my podcast because she's doing similar to what you've done actually, which is like founder turned creator almost. And there's going to be things that you're going to decide, like I'm gonna talk about this or I'm not gonna talk about this. And so you've been in it for a year. Why did you decide to build a personal brand with a beauty brand as big as you had already built? You know, actually, like it's such a good question because I've always had to still show up in front of the brand as the founder from the beginning.

18:54And it was like very one off and very piecemeal. It would be like, do this podcast, you know, and that could be one quarter. And then it would be like, show up and like host this entire event and like, you know, speak another quarter. Yeah. Do these videos and do this content for whatever like a launch or reason. So I was already doing a lot of that from the beginning, but just enough to make it really painful for myself. You hated it. I wasn't practiced. I don't like doing things that I'm not good at. Okay. And when's your birthday? November 12th. I'm a Scorpio. Oh, you're a Scorpio. Okay. Makes sense.

19:31And a Capricorn ride. Okay. So I don't like doing things that I'm not good at. And I like, I understand craft and, and craft building and like what that art form and like the performance art and all of that is. And I know that you cannot be good at a craft unless you're doing it constantly. So like I had something to say and I had something to share, which was very much visual. Okay. Um, it was about my beauty routine and my, like my look, like that's what I was like, I actually want to tell the story and I want to do this. I feel called to do it. Like, let me, let me do it. And what's happened since then, what I've seen unfold for myself is I've made my own life so much easier because I am ready to go basically at any time.

20:10Cause I have some level of understanding of how to do like this skill has built now. So like it makes it, it makes it easier actually not only for me, but on my entire team too, when I need to show up somewhere and like, I just came back from Europe and like hosting that week of launch activities, like that would have took me out before. I would not have been able to survive that. I would have been freaking out, nervous, panicking the entire time. And this time I didn't feel like that at all. I was like, yay, great. I can't wait. Can't wait to get on stage. Lights, camera, action. Let's go. So are you, would you say that you're an introvert?

20:47I have very introverted. I'm shy. Okay. Like I'm really shy. But so when we go for a drink in like a year and we've hung out a few times, like, are you going to come in like guns blazing, like Sheena's here or your energy is always very soft and like, like your shyness goes away after time. I don't know. How is it right now? It's like, my energy is always a little bit like low grade, I would say. Which by the way, I love, and we need to talk about this because I think we glamorize one, youthful founders a lot to very charismatic personalities. I have a really big personality and that is very authentic to myself.

21:21Like even the girls that were here before they said like oh my god you're a little bit shorter than I thought because you're such a big personality and that's authentic to me but I think the best thing when I meet somebody is when they are the exact same person online than they are in person and I would say you are exactly who you are online that you are in person I am so like honestly that was the thing that was like the thing that clicked for me that made it possible for me to do it and I was like, why am I always struggling? Because oftentimes when you go into a room and you're like filming something, the, the directive is like more energy.

21:58And I would be like, okay, like it's so inauthentic to me to be like big and enthusiastic. Like that's just not really how I am. I'm like intense and quiet, I think kind of. And so when I started making content where it was like really low energy and it just was because I was working with one person who gave me the permission. I just like she was like just talk how you are and I was like really like you're not gonna say more energy that's crazy and then I didn't and then I feel really good I feel it feels honest I would say like you're somebody I look to for comfort like I always ask people at the end I'm gonna ask you so you can think about it I'm giving you a head start who's your favorite comfort creator and I have everybody from like Wishbone Kitchen I absolutely love Paige Lorenz but I also love coming to your page because I'm just like, listen, I think inherently as this millennial girl that idolized like the Emily Weiss of the world, like you, I love the idea of the girl boss, although I fundamentally disagree with the way in which it was done back then, which was like, sacrifice your whole life, burn your life on fire just to have a business, which like, I don't think I want, like I want a balanced life in whatever way I can try to make that happen.

23:10but I love coming to your page because to your point and doing all this research for the podcast and finding out so much about you, it's like you really, from a young age, prioritize beauty rituals. And like, just like the way that you're, you were talking about your and your mom's relationship in that article that I was talking about with bizarre Arabia. And that's still the types of content that you're creating today. So for a founder that's listening, that's like, okay, I'm like Sheena, I'm quiet. I'm intense. I maybe don't want to give more energy to the camera what advice do you have for them to start even thinking through how they can build their personal brand depending on what they enjoy doing I think it depends on if they enjoy doing it like I deeply enjoy doing my makeup I love like that's one thing that a lot of people don't know about me as a founder because it's actually not always true about a lot of founders like I'm pretty good at doing makeup and I can do other people's makeup really well too so I actually I'm like do you have I like doing makeup.

24:08I like doing my own makeup. That's like how I experiment with things. So that was very easy. And I like to get dressed. I love clothes. Like I really enjoy those topics. I like putting the whole thing together. It feels like a little bit of a persona. It feels like it's part of my life's work is actually reconciling like the outer and the inner experience and being able to tell that story. So that's really real for me right now, especially. And I think it's an age thing too because the thing that you mentioned about the girl boss situation like I used to be that but that was in my 20s and early 30s and I do think that there's like a theme to the decades sometimes and like those decades are about building because like that's when you're like having this upward trajectory and like I get that I get why you would want to embody that girl boss energy and like if you really want to build a business like yeah man it takes a lot of sacrifice And it's going to take a lot of bossing around and like, you know, really, really going for it.

25:04Like that whole, like I said, there's no balance, I don't think. I don't believe in that in terms of like building something like that large necessarily. But now, right now, it's become about relationships and it's become about the story and the understanding of what it means to connect that inner and the outer. So like for me, that's really connected and it comes through in my beauty routine. that is the thing that I would say like I did not seek out to like have a personal brand I've never even actually used that phrase until today I didn't think about it introducing yeah but I feel like I was like just I was like making like makeup pieces like I wanted to be like I want to show you how to do a full face of Kostas make this is how I do my makeup okay take a look I get so many meshes every single day.

25:53And the threads that I hear at the themes is like, it is so hard to build a business. And yes, like when I was doing B2B business breakdowns all the time, that's helpful for sure. But it's also helpful to hear like the real stuff that you're going to go through when you're building a business, because you've built truly one of like the biggest makeup businesses. Like I'm so honored that you wanted to this podcast, especially after Coachella, because I just wrote some stats down for everybody. So BOF reported like the top brands that won Coachella by earned media impressions. And you were only$200 ,000 behind arguably one of the most popular skincare brands right now, Rode, which has arguably one of the biggest celebrities attached to it.