The #1 Dating Rule That Will Change Your Life (and save months of heartbreak with Sabrina Zohar)

17:52We don't just need to be regulated all the time. So that's why New Year's resolutions don't work. New Year's resolutions don't work because if we say I'm going to lose 100 pounds tomorrow, your nervous system is saying you haven't gotten off the couch in like six years. That's too overwhelming. You're not safe. We don't know what to do here. Let's go back to what we do. Your brain is always looking for shortcuts. So we want to do micro yeses. So, for instance, if I were going to say I want to work out every single day and I want to lose 100 pounds, my advice would be put your shoes by the door for a day.

18:18Then the next day you put your other shoe. Then the next day you put your socks. Then the next day you put your other sock. You start to increment it because what you're telling your nervous system is this is safe to do and I can achieve the goal. And so that's why your therapist had recommended saying, hey, why don't you go and ask a friend first? And then I would actually be curious if you don't mind getting vulnerable. Of course. What were you afraid of happening when you did ask for help? What was the fear?

18:42Sabrina Zohar:someone abandoning me or me needing them. And I never needed anyone in my life because I've had to figure things out for myself. Did you never need anybody or did you need people, but you didn't have that available to you? I needed people and I didn't have that available to me in the way of the dynamic of dating and relationships. And so that was a very scary thing for me to learn. And I honestly feel like there was a few things that I had to learn before I was truly ready to even meet the potential of my husband. What do you think are the three most common things that women need to learn before they are ready to fall in love with their husband?

19:22You got to learn how to say no. That's the biggest to me is like, you got to learn to walk away from the wrong things. You got to take up space. You have every right to tell somebody, I don't like what you said to me. I don't appreciate that. We have got to be okay. And I think the third thing is regulate your nervous system. Because if we don't have regulating techniques, then I'm going to scream at my partner all the time. Like the reality is love is conditional. Unconditional love is childhood. You hope that your parents, no matter what you do, even if you killed them, they would still love you.

19:51Adult relationships are conditional because if your husband made a 180 tomorrow and started acting like a tyrant, you wouldn't still going no matter what I'm going to be by your side. You would have respect for yourself to say, excuse me, this doesn't work for me and either we work through it or I walk. And so I think those are the three main aspects because learning to grieve the ending of things is really how we'll be able to move on because that's where people get stuck. I hear it all the time. I can't get over them. It's been a year. It's like, look at the narrative that you've created about this.

20:21And usually what does it mean about you? That's what I really want everybody to get back to. Because when we start to ask, why don't they like me? Why don't they want to be with me? I want you to reframe why to I don't like. I don't like that they don't want to be with me. Okay, what don't you like about it? I don't feel chosen. Great, so that's the issue. It has nothing to do with why they're not doing this. The more we focus external, the more we're disconnected from internal experiences and what we're going through. And so I think we have got to be okay, one, being alone, and not being alone, meaning single forever, that's the way, but knowing that if this doesn't work for me, I'm okay to walk away because I know better exists.

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22:16Sabrina Zohar:I love when you said questions. Are there specific questions that women should be asking themselves to take inventory of how they feel after a first date and a second date? Like, what would you say those questions are that women can actually answer in their journal when they're having that alone time after a day to really sit with like, that is a good feeling. I want to do that again. I remember a friend. She was a therapist once, and I was a guy who treated me very poorly. And she said, remember the feeling so that you won't go through this again. And I was like, in the positive and the negative.

22:46Right. I think after a first date, the first question I always ask is, how did I feel with them? I don't care how you felt about them. I really don't because I hear it all the time. The spark in the chemistry. It's like, sure, that could mean you'd have great sex. That's without saying you might have this electric chemistry. That doesn't mean you're compatible. That doesn't mean that you can have conflict regulation and repair. That doesn't mean that you can get through the hard times. That just means you can have some fun. So I think after a first date, we want to ask, how did I feel with them?

23:11Did I feel safe? Like not just physically safe, of course, but did I feel emotionally safe? Did they judge me? Did they discredit me? Did they gaslight? Did they deflect? How did they speak about their ex if you spoke about it? How did they speak about people in their life? And also starting to get curious within ourselves, was I comfortable to ask questions? Did I feel safe enough? Because I see it all the time. We'll go on a first date and everything is, I don't want to say anything. I don't want to be too much. If I'm going to be too much, then then go find less. That's fine. I'd rather take up the space and ask the important questions.

23:41Like I always ask on a first date, how'd your last relationship end and what did it teach you about yourself?

23:45Sabrina Zohar:I don't care about the ex. I don't care about the ex. I want to know how it ended and what you learned because I want to understand if you're growth minded. I want to understand if you talk about your ex negatively. I want to understand where you've processed and moved on. Otherwise, that could be a really big red flag. So I think it's also being cognizant and aware when we're on the dates to saying, I hated when they said this. Don't overlook that. Do you think that men date differently than women in today's society? Yes, and I think men are becoming more aware of things. It's a slow progression.

24:16Don't get me wrong, but I would say 50 percent of my clients are actually men. And I get a lot of men that come to me saying, I don't know what to do anymore. Right. Like if I call too much, I'm being too much. If I don't call, she says I'm ignoring her. If I make too many plans, I'm being too easy. If I don't make plans, then I'm playing a game. And so I think there's a big confusion, especially as women that are founders and CEOs and baddies. It's going to be difficult because men are trying to figure out where they fit, especially when the gender norms have always been like, you stay home and cooking clean and I stay out.

24:44We're switching that. And I'm so here for that. But I think men date a little bit more in the moment, right? They're just like, I like her. She's cool. I want to see her again. Women are on the do I want to have kids with this person? Do I see them coming home with me for Christmas? And it's like you had one drink with the person. We don't need to figure all that out. And so I think it's finding a balance. Now, that's not all people, but I think men have a little bit more of a presence when they date, that they're in the moments. And then when they're gone, they will then process and say, she was cool, but I don't need to see her again.

25:11Whereas women, I think we hold on to the projection and the idea of them so much more than we actually need to because we want it.

25:18Sabrina Zohar:Is that why you think that we're seeing a lot more situationships happen because we're dating completely differently? situationships are one person's too afraid to speak up and the other one is benefiting from not committing. Which one of the two are you? Situationships, what are they, right? They are a relationship without the boundaries and the terminology. So you're sleeping together, you're going out together, maybe you're hanging out with friends and family, you're doing all the travel, maybe you're going away, right? We're doing all the things, but no one's ever talked about, so what are we doing here?

25:46Here's what I like, right? And so I think the reason we have situationships is because people are terrified of taking up space. There's the one person that's benefiting from that. And then there's the other one, because I hear it every day. I'm scared to say something. What if they walk away? It's like, well, then you didn't have them to begin with. And so I think there's a fear of I don't want to be too much. But that really is a core belief. That's not actually who this person is, because I slept with my partner on date one. And I looked him in the eyes, I promise you, and I swear, I looked him in the eyes right after we went to dinner.

26:14And I said, I had a really good time. And if this is all it was great, thank you so much. I kind of needed that. And if not, if you're going to call me, that's because we're intentional. don't waste my fucking time. I don't do casual. I don't do hookups. And if you get to know me, that's because we're building something. If not, it was great to meet you. And when I left, people have asked him, Ryan, why did you call her again? And he said she wasn't afraid of losing herself. She didn't care about losing me. And he was like, that was really sexy because I knew you were there because you really wanted that.

26:39You didn't need me. And I think that's where we want to get to is like, I want you in my life, but I don't need you in my life because it's full and robust as it is.

26:46Sabrina Zohar:I love your advice because I feel like a lot of other dating and relationship coaches, they try to put parameters around certain things like this is what it means when you sleep on the first date. This is what it means when you wait this amount of time. But I do think that one of the most confusing things for me when I was dating, especially as a busy woman, is like when we especially go through education, we're taught like process equals outcome. And if you do this, you get that. The do be have cycle. And one of the hardest concepts for me to grasp in dating was like, there is no outcome with the right process.

27:24Sabrina Zohar:And what is the right timeframe that like you even know when you're an associate and you're going to move up to a manager and you're going to go to a director or like when you raise X amount of money, what are you going to be able to do with your business when you get that? And I think dating for highly ambitious women is challenging because it's one of the first times where it's like there are no none of those rules. What are signs or feelings that's like you are progressing? This isn't going from love bombing. This is actually progressing in the right way, because one of the things that I've seen you talk about is like things should marinate slowly.

28:00Sabrina Zohar:Things should be slow. Like how slow is too slow? How fast is too fast? I think it's a valid question. I think when we're looking at timelines, there isn't right. Like to your point, somebody could get married after six months and say it's the love of their life and someone could take five years. I think what we're looking at is, do you feel safe? Do you genuinely, do you have a foundation of safety? And the biggest thing I also really look at is what are both of you doing to progress it? Are you having conversations of depth? Are they being consistent? Consistency doesn't mean that they text you every single morning at the same time.

28:28Somebody could do that and text you and 17 other women while they're taking a shit and not actually be intentional, right? Like I've seen it. I've seen men set a timer. I've been on dates where they text other women while they're with me. That doesn't mean anything. What I want to look for is, do they shy away from conversations or do they have them head on? Are they curious? Curiosity is so important. Do they ask questions? Do they genuinely care about you and what you have to offer? Are they making space for you in their life, right? If we have a first date, first date's just to see if I want to have a second date, second date just to see if I want to have a third date.

29:01That's why I hate the advice of date to marry. I'm not opposed to being intentional, of course. Like, I don't want to waste my time and this is what I want. But when we put it on, I'm dating to marry, what we're saying is that's the only thing that matters. Everything else doesn't matter. I want that. Well, but you get to choose that. You get to choose the partner that you do that with. And so instead of I'm dating to marry, I'm dating intentionally because I know what it is that I want. I have my non-negotiables and I'm not going to settle for anything less. That is the energy that we want to bring as opposed to it being kind of, I feel like, muddied with don't sleep with them on the first date and don't call too many times.

29:34It's like you think of them and you want to text them. Send them a text. If the person doesn't answer, great, they're not that interested. I don't think we need to over conflate it. I think we can look at because if somebody doesn't answer me for 12 hours, sure, great, that sucks. You know what also sucks? They didn't ask me out. They haven't made plans. They haven't called me. They haven't FaceTimed me. I haven't heard anything about them. So the texting doesn't matter. What matters is they're not showing up. And for me, I think we really want to look for somebody when we're in those dating stages going slow.

30:02Are they having those conversations with you? Because if you can't even say something without being terrified, the love bombing, right? You could set a boundary. Hey, I don't move at that speed. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. I would love to get dinner. Why don't we do dinner on the third date? First date, I'd like to get a coffee. See how they respect your boundaries. That's going to be important.

30:20Sabrina Zohar:I feel I would have been so uncomfortable saying to someone, I don't do that on the first date. Like, let's do that on the third date. And I did find myself in situations before my husband where I was with a lot of love bombers and I couldn't really figure out the difference between love bombing and like, wow, this feels really good. And to your point, like you slept with your partner on the first date, like things progressed. If someone is feeling like they're in this pattern of being with these love bombers, because I did find it very hard to set boundaries. I will say before my husband, I found it extremely difficult.

30:58Sabrina Zohar:And I think a lot of ambitious women can relate to that, especially because ambitious women are having to be so masculine at their jobs. They are solving so many problems. It feels like a relief when there is someone that comes into your world and is like, planned this. Let's go to dinner here. I know you love tennis. Let's do this. Like, oh, I'm planning a trip for you. And I found it truthfully very hard to distinguish between this is love bombing and this feels like nice and good and it's progressing. What are those signs? I think when we look at love bombing, it's an inorganic amount of love, attention and affection in a short period of time.

31:33Right. So if I walked by this house and it's beautiful and I said, well, what a beautiful house. You're not throwing the keys at me. You're not like, yeah, yeah, I have to earn that. You need to get to know me. You need to understand me. You're not welcoming me into your home. But yet all of a sudden we're going to give it away. Typically speaking, I would be curious for you, what felt scary about setting a boundary?

31:54Sabrina Zohar:I think until about three months, six months before I met my husband, the question I was always asking myself was, does he like me or do I like him? And it was never, do I like myself around this person? And it wasn't until I flipped that question and said, do I like myself? Did I prioritize myself while I was dating? It took me 31 years to learn that lesson. Totally. Why do we learn that lesson too late? Like, why as women are we constantly seeking the approval of the other sex to be chosen? Well, that's that's a core. That's childhood right there. All in a nutshell. So I'll say this. If you're scared to set boundaries, I want you to visualize the little child that needed them.

32:37I want you to visualize like the seven-year-old you. And every time you don't set boundaries, you're telling that version of you, you don't mean anything to me. They matter more. I need them to like me because you are nothing. That's how I visualize it. When we think of like people pleasing, am I being hurtful or harmful? I can hurt your feelings by saying no. No, I'm sorry. I'm not in town that night. I apologize. I can't make it. Harmful is mommy needs a self-care day when your kid has a recital. And you're like, what are you doing? Your child needs you. And so we're looking at if I'm hurting your feelings fine, I can do that.

33:06No, I can't make dinner. I apologize. I have not don't even apologize. I can't make dinner. I have a meeting that night, but I could do Thursday. If we're scared, typically speaking, when we're scared to set a boundary, we're scared of what is that going to mean about me? Am I going to be abandoned? Are they going to reject me? Are they not going to like me? Am I going to be difficult? Am I going to be too much? And that's where I have to say, how old do you feel? And where'd you learn that from? because if I say, that's true, I'm not the 30, I'm 35 right now. Am I a 35-year-old woman that is saying, no, I don't want to do that?

33:32Because when we say no, oftentimes as women, we're told, keep sweet, play nice, be a good girl. And then setting boundaries goes against that. And that goes into that fawn response. That's your nervous system saying, I don't know what to do here. I don't feel safe and I can't keep you safe. That's our job now because as the adult, that's my job to take care of my little. I couldn't set a boundary with my father, But I can set one now because I'm not seven anymore. I'm an adult.

33:55Sabrina Zohar:How can you spot the person that's ready for love and the person that just wants the attention? Boundaries. If you if somebody that wants attention texting you all the time, can we see the minute you say that doesn't work for me? You start to see their intentions because they might take it personally or they say, well, I was just trying to be nice. And you're like, all right, well, I'm just saying I don't want that. That is the quickest way. And I know I feel like a broken record of like boundaries. Boundaries do feel scary, but that's why we have to practice them. saying no to a barista that asks if you want something in your coffee that maybe normally you'd say yes because you don't want to be difficult but this time you say no I want two percent that's okay right because what you do is you teach your nervous system that's safe I'm allowed to do this I remember I when I'm Rhett Ryan we it was maybe like a month after we started dating and I was sitting by my pool area at my old apartment and I called my mom and I said there's something that's bothering me that he's doing and I said mom I'm terrified he's going to call me in 20 minutes what if he breaks up with me and my mom said good let him do you the favor then.

34:53And I was like, oh. And I remember calling and seeing him and he just sat there and I told him and I was waiting for it. I'm like, he's going to tell me I'm too much and this. And he just said, man, that makes total sense. I'm so sorry I did that. You're right. I need to take ownership of that. And I remember being like, what? Sorry, what? Did you just take accountability? You just told me that I'm valid? But that wouldn't have happened unless I took out that space. Because if I had played small, my needs were never going to be met because how would they have been if I don't advocate for myself.

35:20Sabrina Zohar:Yeah. The same as being a woman in the business world. We have to advocate for ourselves. Nobody's going to do it for us. One of your most viral videos is about not changing who we are, changing the environments that we're in. What advice do you have for women who are ready for that, but it still really affects them to set those boundaries? Like what are they doing to move past that? Grief. You got to learn to grieve. That's the biggest thing because the The thing is, people pleasers want everything to work out. And it's not there's nothing wrong with anyone people pleasing. But that doesn't come out of, oh, I'm such a good person.

35:52I just want to make everyone happy. It's like, no, that's a fond response. That's me trying to control the outcome. If I'm a good girl and I manage what's happening, then I won't get in trouble. I won't get yelled at. Everything will go my way. We all know that never happens. And so the number one thing is we've got to learn to grieve. What does that mean? Cry? Validate your experience? Hey, that really sucked. I didn't love that. If you actually, self-compassion releases more dopamine than external. So even just saying, given everything I've been through would make total sense, that would be really tough to set a boundary.

36:22That right there just released dopamine, and that's how we validate our own experience. If I don't validate my emotions, what makes me think that my partner is going to be doing that? Because if I start crying and say something, my partner goes, here you go again, being a nut job. Okay, well, I didn't validate my own emotions. If I did, I'd say, excuse me, that's disrespectful. I'm hurting right now, and I'm going through something. But then if I do that, I have to be okay with the fact that that person might not respect that. That means I have to be okay to lose things. I had to learn that even with my business.

36:49When I started software, I remember saying, if I lose this, I'm nothing. I'm a worthless nothing. And then I went to Shark Tank and I was on my, I was there, I was on set and they sent me home. And I had to be okay to lose things because when I did, this entire career started. When I walked away from the guy right before Ryan that I was dating, that was a total jackass, a waste of my time. I met him three days later because I wasn't holding on to what wasn't working. I was making space for what would. And I think we have to have some element of faith to believe that there's something out there for us and I'm not going to settle until I get it.

37:27You didn't come this far to deal with that, to deal with a boy who their mother didn't teach them right. Like we are not doing that anymore. or it's 2026, or whenever you're listening to this, you deserve better.

37:38Sabrina Zohar:One of the most shocking red flags that my therapist taught me about, which I would have completely overlooked as a busy, ambitious woman that was dealing with like much different level of priorities. But like when I would go on a date, I would overlook the very small thing. So he said this thing to me where he said, don't overlook a man's car being messy if they pick you up for a date, because that actually is a sign that they are not going to prioritize your needs in the future relationship. And I was so confused by that because I was like, what do you mean a messy car will mean that this person won't prioritize me?

38:13And he broke it down by saying that people make the things

38:19Sabrina Zohar:that they wanna make a priority. And if he wanted to make a good impression on you, he would have cleaned up his car. He would have made it felt like an environment that you were a priority in. Whereas you are one of many things that that person is dealing with at the end of the day and him not coming with a clean outfit and a nice clean car, not like a nice car, but a clean car signals that you are one of many priorities. You aren't the priority. And it was so interesting because I went on a first date that week and there was a guy that picked me up in a messy car. I was able to pick up on other little red flags that I may have overlooked because I was in the mindset of like, I'm trying to build an empire right now.

38:57Sabrina Zohar:I'm not paying attention to how messy or clean your car is. I was paying attention to way bigger things. What is another small, simple thing that people should be paying attention to, but they often overlook that gets them in that same situation again? Red flags are a pattern of behavior. So when we're looking at red flags, how do they deal with waiters? Right. I always look at like, how do they deal with people when we're out? Because if you don't treat everybody with respect just because you don't deem that this person can do something for you, then I'm not interested in continuing. I look at what happens when I share something.

39:29How do they handle my vulnerability? because that's really important. I look at how do they regulate? For me, that's number one, because my really good friend of mine is a neuroscientist and he always says your story determines your strategy. And so when I'm feeling super secure in myself and I'm feeling really good and I'm in that ventral state and I'm feeling really regulated, my story is I can do this and I got this. And then my strategy starts to show that I take care of myself. I clean my home. That's what we want to look at. To your point, if somebody is a hot mess in every area of their life, What makes you think that they're going to be any different with you?

40:01And so we want to look at patterns of behavior. How do they talk about people in their life? How do they communicate with you? Like, I know, I think a lot of people want to look for the small little things and like, sure, right? Things of, do you feel like they're being disingenuous? Like, do you think they're lying to you? That, sure. But I think early on in dating, what I want, what the biggest thing I look for is, do they hold true to their word? That's huge for me. If you tell me you're going to call me, did you call me? And if you didn't, did you take ownership as to why you didn't? Or did you just pretend like you didn't tell me you were going to call me three nights in a row and never did?

40:30And I think we overlook things like that. Oh, he's busy. Oh, yeah, they just have a lot of things going on. It's like, so did I. I have a lot of things going on. I'm incredibly busy. I've had a lot of trauma. I don't hurt other people. And so if I'm not doing that, why do I have to make it okay for other people to do that?

40:45Sabrina Zohar:One of my favorite videos that you posted was the men marry the women in proximity. The yellow cab theory. Okay, can you explain this theory for people that don't know what it is? Of course. So anyone watch Sex and the City, it's the yellow cab theory that when a man has his cab light on, that's when he's ready. Like, here's a harsh reality. It's not just about love. It's proximity and timing because I can love somebody with every bone in my body. But if I'm not emotionally available, it's going to be a moot point. Me and Ryan met. We both were dealing with grief. And we have both said, had we met even a year prior, it would never have worked because he needed and I needed to go through such a great loss to appreciate the life that we had to then say, what am I doing?

41:24I need to change the way I'm doing things. If I had met him a year prior, I was in my hot mess phase. I was texting too much. Proximity and timing matter a lot more than love because you could think that this person is the best thing on the planet. But if you met them at the wrong time, you met them at the wrong time. Like maybe if you met your husband 10 years prior, you wouldn't have been in a space. But when you met him, you were at that time saying, okay, I'm ready for this. I can do this. I can show up at this now. That matters a lot more than how much you love somebody.

41:52Sabrina Zohar:Does it matter about what's going on in your life at that time? Like a lot of people listening to this are in the throes of building the business, raising the money, trying to keep their life together. Like, is that the right time to date? I don't think there is a right or wrong time. I met Ryan when I had nothing. Like, let me preface. Software, when it started, was quite successful. After the Shark Tank thing, I had a whole thing with the company. It all 180'd. And so at that time, I had nothing. I had just started creating content on TikTok. I couldn't afford rent. I couldn't afford food. I couldn't afford my dog's medication, which then potentially was the reason he passed.

42:25Like there was a lot happening. And if I had that, oh, well, no, no, I'm building a business. I can't date you. To me, those are excuses because I had a lot to give and I also had a lot to receive. I just prioritize differently because I made choices for myself to do that. I'm not saying that anybody listening, please take whatever time you want. If you say you're not ready, please don't feel forced. But eventually we do have to say ready isn't necessarily a timeline. It's a feeling. It's a feeling of I'm ready to be disappointed if that happens. I'm ready to be excited because I think a lot of us were so used to being disappointed.

42:58Right. What if it doesn't work out? But what if it does? What if it does? My mama always said, be careful what you wish for, because when you get it, what are you going to do with it? Are you ready to receive that in your life? And so if you're focused on the business, that's great. If you genuinely don't have bandwidth and time, please don't waste anybody else's. But if you were saying, I do, I could make a few nights a week. Like I could make space for someone else in my life. Don't let your business not being where you want it to be. Be the reason you don't do that because there is no perfect time.

43:24I'm so grateful I gave Ryan a chance, even though I was in the thralls of starting a really amazing company. I wouldn't have been able to do it without the experiences of my partner because he triggered me in ways that helped me grow. And that growth helped work in my career as well.

43:40Sabrina Zohar:Did you just use triggering as a good thing? That word? I think triggers are a good thing. Okay. Can you explain that a little bit more? Absolutely. So triggers, like I said, neutral action or inaction. What a trigger does is it sheds light for me on things that I need to work on. So if I'm triggered consistently, so let's say I get trolls on the internet. We all do, right? Everybody gets it. And when I get triggered by them, I have to stop and go, all right, girl, you believe what they're saying then. Then there's something about what they're saying that is hitting a nerve for you, work on it.

44:07To me, it's an opportunity. It's an invitation for me to get curious about myself. And I'll give you an example because I always come with a still kind of learning each other. We'd gotten our first house and we were like, okay, we're doing it. And I remember he was in the kitchen and I said, hey, babe, do you want to do something? Like, do you want to go to HomeGoods, I think, knowing me? And he went, no. I just walked off, right? To anybody else, they'd go, all right, partner just doesn't want to. That was it. I got this wave of heat. I sat there and I was like, I'm going to kill it. And I had to stop.

44:36And I said, no, no, the pinch doesn't match the ouch. You're freaking out. Your partner's allowed to say no. And I said, I sat there and I said, Sabrina, get curious. And I went, how old do I feel? And I was like, this is dad. Got it. And I said, OK, I felt dismissed. It doesn't mean it's what he meant to do, but I felt dismissed. So he came back in the room and I said, can I share something with you, which is always what I suggest. Ask for consent when you'd like to have a conversation with somebody about something serious. So can I share something with you? I said, when you did that just now.

45:01That reminded me of my dad because growing up he would go and walk off and I felt so small and dismissed. I know that wasn't your intention, but moving forward, would you be able to maybe just give me a reason why you don't want to do it so I don't internalize and take it personally? And he stopped and went, that makes so much sense. I could see how that was actually a really dick move. I'm so sorry. You're right. Moving forward, I'll let you know why I don't want to. We've never had the issue again. Do you notice how the trigger was mine to own? It's not Ryan's fault. He's allowed to say no. He's allowed to do things.

45:29I am the one that has to work on it Because if I make triggers everybody else's problem, I'm outsourcing my healing to everybody else when they didn't do anything.

45:37Sabrina Zohar:What date did you tell Ryan about the trauma with your dad? It was about three months in. Why did you wait so long? Because we can't, we don't trust these, who are these people? I don't trust that person. What if they're a narcissist and they're going to use that against me? We have to, trust is conditional. I give you a little, I see what you do with it, and I see then how, what is the space you create? because if I say something vulnerable and then all of a sudden two weeks later you use it against me I just gave you ammunition into my deepest darkest wounds the things that are gaping and open that I'm trying to heal shut and I'm giving you access to them to pour salt anytime you want that has to be earned and we trauma dump because a lot of the times when we trauma dump we want to create that intimacy we want to force that of like oh look look how close we are I told them all about my dad and they didn't run but that other person also doesn't know what to do with it they might not know how to support you.

46:25They don't know you well enough. It feels uncomfortable. And so I don't think you don't have to hide it. But I told Ryan on our first date, I said, my father and I have a tumultuous relationship. And over time, it's something I'd love to share with you. But for now, that's what I feel comfortable sharing. And he was like, OK. And same with him. He was like, I don't talk to my dad. And in time, we didn't talk about trauma until like four, like three or four months in when we started to feel comfortable. And I thought, OK, I could see this going somewhere because why am I going to share with you my deepest, darkest wounds if I don't even know if I want to see you again.

46:52Sabrina Zohar:If you want a place in 2026 where you don't have to worry about the algorithm or the charts, but you still want a profitable place to make money off of your brain and thoughts, then we need to talk about Beehive. It's a platform I've been using since 2023 that lets you start a newsletter, grow your audience, and make money through a native ad network, paid subscriptions, and digital products, all with a zero take on earnings. And that's where I went to turn my silly little TikToks into the beginning of my media empire. Beehive is now a sponsor of Hot Smart Rich. What started as a simple way to share my ideas became the place where I am my most vulnerable with my community, all of you, which combined with Beehive's built in growth tools like boosts, recommendations, and referrals has helped me grow 100 % year over year, all while staying insanely engaged and connected to my angels.

47:48Sabrina Zohar:It's free to start, has preset templates, and an AI website builder to get your newsletter and website up and running so fast. If you want to give it a try, head to beehive.com slash HSR for 30 % off your first three months, but make sure you enter the code HSR30 at checkout. That's B-E-E-H-I-I-V dot com slash HSR with code HSR30. Have you ever found yourself daydreaming or falling asleep at night thinking about building something of your own? Because four years ago, I was. It was all I could think about. And it was around this time that I decided to start building my TikTok. In the beginning, I didn't imagine it would ever turn into my career, but eventually it did.

48:30Sabrina Zohar:And a large part of that was because I just kept at it. It's actually a pattern I've noticed with a lot of the guests who come on to Hot Smart Rich. The ones that are winning are the ones who stay consistent. And it's why I want to tell you about my show sponsor, Stan. It's built for people who want to turn what they know into something real. Your skills and ideas become products people actually purchase. Courses, guides, communities, and coaching, all in one place. Stanley, their AI content partner, helps you grow your following and scale your voice across platforms. So if you've ever thought, I should be able to make money from this, well, Stan is where that starts.

49:05Sabrina Zohar:And if this isn't enough of an incentive, Stan just launched their Dare to Post challenge to help you start building your business and stay consistent. All you have to do is post every day for 30 days, and you will win your share of$100 ,000. Head over to daretodream.stan.store to find out everything you need to know about this incredible opportunity. When you said something like people can use your story as ammunition against you, what did you mean by that? Narcissists love to do that. So think about if I tell you, growing up, my dad made me feel like I was invisible. And you're like, oh, yeah, totally.

49:42And then all of a sudden, two weeks later, we're in the kitchen and I do something and it's no wonder your father couldn't stand you. And you're like, wait, what? Oh, my God. Wait, you see that, too? They can use it against you because they know how to manipulate that. If they know that that's your wound, that's your Achilles heel, right, then they can do things that could actually hurt you intentionally because what happens? That's specifically narcissists. We hope that nobody else does this. Narcissists, they go into the – they just drench you with love, right? That's why they love bombing. They come on really strong because they are charming and they want to win you over.

50:16They want your boundaries to come down so they become the center of your universe. They do it as so, look, I love you. Look how much I care about you. Then they go into the devalue stage. Once they go into the devalue stage, they take all the things you told them about and they use it against you. And then they go into the discard phase when they have no more use for you. That's it. Goodbye. I don't need you anymore. We don't need to hand that to them. You need to make sure that they've earned that place in your life. They don't just get it because I'm not just going to tell you what I went through as a kid so that what you could tell me later that my dad was right.

50:45There's something wrong with me.

50:49Did you ever experience that? Did you ever have anybody use your traumas against you?

50:53Sabrina Zohar:Totally. But I think that I was too naive to even realize it at the time. I don't think it was that outward is what you're talking about. But I've been in other dynamics and I have people very close to me that I've seen that dynamic play out and it's dangerous and scary, which is why like this conversation was so important to me for a few reasons. Like when I was single and my biggest fear in life was truly building an empire, building a business that I knew that I was going to be able to do and waking up at 50 and looking around and not being able to celebrate that with people. Because the one truth that I really fundamentally believe is the key to a happy, healthy, longevity life is relationships.

51:37Sabrina Zohar:It is the one thing that we need as humans after food and water and our basic necessities. And I felt for so long, I did not know how to date. There wasn't a playbook. And I'm fascinated with your story because I think that there's going to be a lot of founders that are listening to this that are kind of at their wits end of building their business. Like I get a lot of messages from women that are like, it's been five, six years, like it's not progressing. I don't know what to do. My identity is tied up in this. I want to pivot. And so I really wanted you as a guest because you are an expert in dating and relationships, but you also mastered the pivot yourself from a multi-million dollar company to completely going a different direction.

52:24Sabrina Zohar:So I really want to focus the next part of the conversation on that, because a lot of people that are listening to this will understand what Shark Tank is, and that's how far you did get. Let's take it back to 2022. You're 32 years old. You make it onto Shark Tank. You're running a clothing brand. Your dream as a child, seven-year-old Sabrina, is to be a clothing empire female CEO. How did you end up as a dating and relationship coach that made their mark on social media? Like what happened? So backtrack was in 2019, I got my heart ripped out and stepped on and I almost took my life because the relationship ended and it was the worst breakup.

53:05I married my father, right? Like it was the same thing. I was with a man. We were and we don't really, I don't want to talk about it too often. But anyways, yes. So I was married for a year. It was a very blip on the screen. And it was a very like, we love each other. Let's just do it without really thinking it through. And I became a shell of a human. I was about 30 pounds soaking wet. Like I was truthfully told I'm 5 '8". I was 96 pounds, I think, at the time. So I was very scary looking. And it was to the point where people were asking like, hey, are you OK? I was alienated from friends and family.

53:33He really got me away from everybody and was incredibly manipulative and would do one of us loves you more than the other. And so he was trying to imply that he loved me more than I loved myself. Very manipulative so that I would constantly cave and say, OK, whatever he says, I will do. And when I got out of that, that's when I started therapy. I was like, I know there's got to be more to this. There's something wrong. And I dove head on. And I started to even see the difference between, OK, the Internet is telling me if he wanted to, he would. But is that accurate? Right. Like, isn't there more to it than that?

54:05Isn't there bandwidth? Isn't there capacity? Are we talking trauma? Like, can I have I have questions? And so it was the start of that. Then fast forward to 2022. I had moved to L.A. I left New York and I was in New York for 12 years. And I get to L.A. and I'm thinking, this is going to be great. Dating is fantastic. I met all these hot guys. Oh, my God, it was worse than I ever imagined. I felt so alone and I felt really scared because I was taking up space. I was having these conversations and I wasn't being met with that reciprocity. So I'm like, oh, here we go. So fast forward now, it's 2022 in summer and I get Shark Tank.

54:35This to me is it, right? Like this is the Mecca. I've made it through 40 something rounds of calls. I'm on the last step. I'm on set. And I'm like, OK, this is my life. And that's also where we were talking about earlier of not putting everything into one thing. And I said, this is going to be it. And they put me on set. And all of a sudden they come in maybe after 20 minutes like, are you ready?

54:55Sabrina Zohar:You're up next. I'm like, OK, I've got the set. I'm going to go give it to Mark like this is it. and like another 30 minutes go by I'm like hmm this can't be good and they come in I'm so sorry we can't fit you on today we we hate when this happens I said that's okay you'll find another spot right oh no that's not how that works we'll have to put you on a standby I was like wait what do you mean standby so like world crumbles that's I thought that was all I had I didn't think I had anything else and at the time I remember I went home and I lost my marbles and a guy called me that I had one date with, one date with, and he was a founder and he wanted to know how it went.

55:31And I never spoke to him again after that, but I thank him for actually saving my life that night because he taught me that you could have a beautiful date with someone in a great conversation that doesn't need to go anywhere. It could just be someone caring about you as a human and being there for you. And I think the next day my friend said, listen, man, you talk about dating all the time. You relate it to business, right? You're always talking about this. You should start a career. I was like, no one's going to listen to me. Who cares about me? That was my core beliefs. and so after shark tank when they told me officially sorry they try again next year i had nothing to lose i had everything to gain and so i said you know what i have something to say i'll start it on tiktok i'm gonna put myself out there and i'm gonna be okay being embarrassed because being cringe is part of it and we'll learn and then i just kept showing up and kept showing up and kept doing it and then i started my first viral video happened like two months later and i just kept investing in myself and then now here we are multi-million dollar company later where my partner is also my COO and my book comes out this year, like I've changed my life because I was okay losing what I thought was going to be my life.

56:31And that I think is part of dating relationships career, that if you're at the end of the road saying, I can't do this anymore, that doesn't make you a failure. That actually makes you really strong that you can admit that. What are your choices? And that's where the pivot came in. If what are my choices are, I could try something new. I can say what I want to say because I knew there has to be other people out there that were feeling what I felt. I didn't want to just make clickbait. I wanted to create content that actually spoke to the girl that I was because I needed that at the time. And that's how I've always run my business.

57:00How can I actually help people? Not how can we just put more things out there that already exist, which is why Hot Smart Rich exists, right? You saw a hole. You saw that what you're doing wasn't being done and you filled it. And that's what we need more of, even if you have to start over.

57:13Sabrina Zohar:You at this time, did you fully give up the dream of the clothing empire? Or were you like, okay, I'm going to keep my feet in. I'm going to kind of have like testing the waters. Like where were you at in terms of the hard pivot or I would call the soft pivot? Soft pivot for sure, because I had so much inventory. I still have like$80 ,000 of inventory at my factory. So I'm like, okay, I kind of need to liquidate this. So I saw it as I have software. I'm going to keep running it as I am. Let's see where this goes. And then that started taking priority. That started growing. Then I started the podcast.

57:46It just everything kept morphing to where eventually software became an afterthought. And then here we are potentially selling the company this year because it's just I love it and it's my baby and I'm so grateful for it. The hard pivot had to come when I look at the bottom line going how much time and energy I'm spending to make this much, how much time and energy I'm spending to make this much. We're going to go with and also what I love to do, because again, like it's OK. I remember one of my friend started a company and he sold it. The first company, I think he sold for like 300 ,000. The second company sold for 100 million.

58:16Big difference. And I remember asking him after he sold the$100 million company, I was like, you know, I didn't know about the first company. I said, you're so lucky. And he said, why? I said, well, your first company you sold for 100 million. And he goes, no, no, no. You don't know about all the failures that came before it. And he was like, but I learned from it. I learned from it so that I could become this version of myself. And so I think for me, the hard pivot had to come when my soul just wasn't in the company anymore. And my passion just wasn't there because I love to help people, just not in that way.

58:43Sabrina Zohar:Do you think that you would have the same reaction as that with a brand that is so tied to you, like the Sabrina's O 'Hare show, the podcast? Whereas software, I love the founding story because it was surrounding your mom's aneurysms. And obviously that was extremely tied to your identity. Was it tied to your identity in the same way that like you've built this brand and obviously what you're passionate about now? So the funny thing is that the podcast, the Sabrina Zohar show, used to be called Do the Work. And I got a cease and desist a year and a half ago where I had to change it. I lost my shit when I got that.

59:18I remember collapsing in Ryan's arm, having panic attacks because I was like, this is it. Right? The show was number three in education. I was climbing the charts. I couldn't keep up with the growth. It was just, but people didn't know who I was. They knew about the podcast. They were like, oh, you're Do the Work. What's your name? And I was like, wait, what? But at the time, I said either I could lose it all, right? Change the name and just close it and be done or believe in myself and put my name on it. So I did have to pivot in that way. And I think that's part of being a good business owner is we're going to have a lot of inconveniences.

59:48You're going to have a lot of times that you're like, why am I here? Why do I do this? Remember your why. I remember my who. Who am I doing this for? My little. And so software had my identity to a certain extent. But because I think it was a product based business, there was a third part. Like there was a bit of a gap there. whereas the podcast is so me. I'm vulnerable. I'm raw. I share so many stories but I was okay losing it as well because I've already lost so much. What am I going to hold on to this for?

1:00:16Sabrina Zohar:You've built millions of followers cross-platform and I love one of your principles and it is you choose danger when you upload a video. What does that mean? I am not afraid to say what needs to be said and so I know that can come with a lot of backlash. Now, when I first started creating content and saying texting isn't the end all be all, I got inundated. I got screamed at. I got yelled at. But I also had the audience that I was looking for and I knew I had to sift through it. And so now I made the video, got 11 million plays saying, you know, I'm going to say what nobody else says. And you're using therapy talk as a reason to avoid accountability.

1:00:52Oh, I've had therapists stitch it and try to let the let the engagement show you what it is that people resonated with it. And so I look at it as when I post and when I upload and I choose danger, I'm also OK choosing whatever's going to happen is made because I believe in what I'm doing. I believe in what I'm saying. I believe in the messaging. That's all that matters.

1:01:11Sabrina Zohar:Do you feel more in your power as a CEO and founder doing this service based business than you ever did doing a product based business? 100 percent. To be fair, software, my sister and I started and then she didn't want to do it. And so I always had this where I was like, I did it with you. This is me. This was me putting myself out there. This was me having nothing, starting with nothing, zero followers on everything and saying I have a thought and I have a belief because I believed in myself. So to me, that's why this matters more is because I started this from a place of I had to eat what I kill.

1:01:42And so I really put myself into it. I love also what I do. There's nothing more special than having somebody say, I listened to a podcast of yours. I did the work and now I have a husband or I have a person or you helped me get there. I don't think there's any product I could ever make that will replace that. Do you think that you'd ever do product-based businesses again? No, thank you. No, unless the inventory is not a thing, right? If it's a card game or something where you only have, but having SKUs and sizes and colors and that, no, thank you. Unless the stars aligned and it made sense, but I love service-based way more.

1:02:13I had merch, right? I'll do certain things, courses, things like that. But I enjoy working with people.

1:02:19Sabrina Zohar:When was the moment that you connected the dots between I'm running a content-based thing to like I'm running a content media business? It was February 2023. It was the first month. I'll never forget it. My mom called me and I said, Mom, I booked three people this month. If I do that next month, I could pay rent just on this business. And the next month I booked out all of my sessions. And then the next month and then the next month. And then I was making 60K, 100K, 200. I didn't know what to do with all this money. It was just coming at me in a great way. Very blessed. but that was when I realized you have something here.

1:02:53Once I hit the million followers, that's when I realized you're not just a creator, you're a voice and you get to use yours for something special.

1:03:00Sabrina Zohar:There's a huge misconception though around follower count equals money because I think that there's actually like, even for myself, I don't have a million followers, but I would say I have one of the most lucrative audiences because they are highly ambitious, driven, incredibly successful women that like is a community that brands want to tap into. When you were at a million followers, did that equal like a million dollars of sales? Not even close. 100 percent. Followers are like being rich in monopoly. But for me, it was more of there's an audience that wants to hear me. That's what I was looking for is like, is there somebody that wants this?

1:03:36Is there someone that cares about this? Having a million people watching my videos? That was wild to me. But 100%, you could have somebody with 10 ,000 followers making$10 million a year, and you could have someone with 20 million followers making nothing. The platforms don't pay you. None of that is how you're monetizing. How I monetize is what I'm giving people. So I have courses. I've got the podcast, right? We've got all these different business outlets. You can work with me. There's all these different outlets. But what I was looking for, the only reason follower count mattered to me was to know that there is people out there that actually want to hear my voice.

1:04:07And that's where it keeps me going. Because if I only had 10 ,000 followers, maybe it would be a hobby. But I don't know that it would necessarily be the biggest business in the world because that helped me to understand, okay, you have something here.

1:04:18Sabrina Zohar:Was there ever a moment that you just thought like this is all going to go away? Almost every single day. That's my trauma though. That's my stuff because growing up, my dad, you wouldn't know. He would be off with his girlfriend. He cheated on my mom. We didn't know. If you said something to me, didn't like you just leave. He would just walk out. So I've always had this fear of I'm going to lose it. I'm going to lose it. And every day I have to work on my nervous system to say you're not because you built it. It wasn't given to you. So nobody can take this from you. And if you lose it all, look what you built.

1:04:47You could do it again. And so that's my self-talk of having to remind myself who the fuck I am and what I actually bring to the table, not just what people benefit from me. trauma doesn't go away anxiety doesn't go away you learn to live with it you learn to deal with it you learn to cope with it and you learn to rewire it but you don't get rid of it that's

1:05:05Sabrina Zohar:like getting rid of a part of you you can't damn wish i could right if we could just like lobotomy and just like get rid of anxiety but then honestly i wouldn't be as good of a business owner i saw this tiktok about the question being posed like if you could get rid of the worst thing that's happened to you, would you do it? And there is a part of me that wants to say, yeah, of course I would. But no, I wouldn't. I think it actually makes me so much better at what I do every single day. And it's something that stays with me because we all have our own unique stories. I feel like you've really come into yourself in the last three years.

1:05:45Sabrina Zohar:Do you feel like there's a whole next evolution that's coming? Like, what is your book about? What is that next phase. I think if I stop growing, then put me six feet under, right? Like if this is it, if this is it, I don't want it. Unsubscribe. There's got to be more to life than this. I have got to explore more. For me, my number one goal is like, I want my own show. I want to host a dating show where I actually can help people in a broader scale. The book is about patterns. So I wanted to make sure it wasn't just about dating because I want everyone to be able to read it, to understand where did I learn this from?

1:06:14How old do I feel? What's coming up for me? Did you ever see the movie Eternal Sunshine?

1:06:17Sabrina Zohar:No, but I don't watch movies or TV. Okay. So fair. But in the movie, it's about getting your memory erased. And so the woman Clementine, which is where I named my dog after, she gets her memory erased of him. And he's trying to do the same thing. And then, spoiler alert to anybody, at the end, he's like, I don't want to let go of it. These are my memories. I don't want to lose her. The whole point being of you can't erase the parts of you that you're some of all your parts. If I didn't have my father who taught me all these things, then I wouldn't have been a hot mess. I wouldn't have slept my way through New York.

1:06:44I wouldn't have done all this and I wouldn't be where I'm at now because what personal experience would I come to you with? How could I sit there and say, I know how you feel? Oh, you're spiraling because they didn't text you. You're starting to question your worth. You're calling all of your friends. You're having a panic attack. Sit your ass down and let's talk. If I was like, oh, I met my husband at the grocery store when I was 18 and we've been together ever since, you probably wouldn't take my advice as much as the person saying, I got out of the depths of hell and let me teach you how you're way out.

1:07:09Of course it sucks. I wish I didn't have it. But at the same time, I wouldn't be the version that I am now. So what's the point of wishing we didn't have it?

1:07:15Sabrina Zohar:I'm so happy you came on, Sabrina Zohar. I have a few rapid fire questions to ask you. Okay, I'll do this. What is the last thing you put on your credit card? My laptop. That was a fun shirt purchase. Oh, that's so rough because you're like, I need it. but it's not like the most fun thing, but it's still the biggest thing. Okay. First date, coffee or walk? I would go for a walk because I like bilateral movements help me process. And so when you're walking, you're actually regulating your nervous system and you're staying present. And so I think that's a really great way because coffee might be caffeine and could really impact how you're viewing that person.

1:07:46Sabrina Zohar:And would you say walk over dinner? A hundred percent. I do not want to be stuck at dinner with someone I do not know. Personally. Okay. Split the bell or he pays. If he asks me out, he pays. who is your favorite comfort creator i have ashley mixon she's a skincare and she does skin flooding and i just watch her for hours or those asmr pack and order with me i don't know why but they're so relaxing i don't look at anything in my field it just it throws me off my game by the way so do i and i think like some people might interpret that as like not a good behavioral trait like a mean girl trait but to me it actually makes sure that i stay in my own lane It's like a horse race.

1:08:25Sabrina Zohar:I have my blinders on. I'm not getting influenced by what people are doing. So I refuse to look at what anyone else is doing in my field. You don't want to see my TikTok algorithm. It's dogs. It's all the ASMR videos and it's skincare. It's nothing dating because I get frustrated. I get anxious. And I'm like, you know what? I don't need to know what you're doing. I need to know what I'm doing. Who is your favorite celebrity relationship? This doesn't age well. It used to be Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively. Right? Used to be. now I would say I really like Selena Gomez and and uh Benny Blanco I do I I love him so much that inadvertently I love them together but I just love the way he shows up for her it's so beautiful I love that who is a celebrity couple that you're like they need to just leave each other anybody JLo dates because I just every time I see it I'm like girl what are we doing here yeah that would be every time I see her I'm like there's a reason you guys are single this isn't working.

1:09:17Sabrina Zohar:Who is your favorite creator brand that you aspire to be? Truthfully, there's very few because I feel like a lot of the people, especially in my field specifically, are charlatans. There's a lot of snake oil salesmen. There's a lot of people that are inauthentic. I have people in my world like Jillian Tarecki is a really good friend of mine. I just love her as a person and I aspire for the way she's built her career to keep going. And we're like big sister, little sister. I would say Jillian. She's just a really beautiful soul and her content's great. Love that. Okay, last question. Sabrina, if you had to title this season of your life, what would it be called?

1:09:52It's go time. That's it. It's time to make things happen. I'm tired of playing small. I'm tired of doubting myself. And I'm tired of believing what my father taught me. And it's time for me to show myself what I could do.

1:10:05Sabrina Zohar:Well, you don't know how much I needed this conversation. I'm so, so, so grateful that you came on. Where can people find you? And what can HSR help you with right now? Honestly, the HSR community, just being here, like just supporting, just being here and not trying to change me. I think that's what all I ask from people is like, it's okay. I curse a lot. I talk really fast. I have ADHD. I get it. I'm not for everybody, but I don't have to be. And so all I ever ask is just for the support. If it jives, great. Come on in. I got my book coming up. Please buy it. October, 2026. October, 2026. But outside of that, just thank you for being here because I think us building a community is what matters so much more.

1:10:40The rest will follow.

1:10:41Sabrina Zohar:And where can people find you? Sabrina.Zohar on TikTok and the Sabrina is Ohar show on Instagram and YouTube, I believe. And when does your podcast come out? What day of the week? Every Friday. It's a lot of solos. I just talk to myself for 40 minutes. It's great. Love it. Thank you so much for coming on. And thanks each other for listening. Love you guys.