Tower 28’s Amy Liu: From Stay-At-Home Mom to Best-Selling Sephora Powerhouse at 40 - How She Bet On Herself and Won

25:00So to get to your question about the feminine side, I think I could definitely work on it. I think there is also something. But is that even important to you right now? It's important to me that I have a good relationship with my husband. It's actually the thing that I think my husband and my family, like when people are like, oh my God, Tower 28, I'm like, the thing that you should be really impressed by, honestly, is my family. To be married for 18 years, that's not the impression. We've been together for 25. To be married for this long. That is not the impressive thing. The impressive thing is that you can be married that long and to be happy and to like be able to wake up every morning.

25:34We wake up every morning and we do a one hour walk together every morning and we talk, right? And I think he's like the first person I call when anything happens. We actually, I think, have a great relationship, but even a great relationship doesn't mean there's not bumps in the road and that it's not, you know, hard at times. I think the thing that's really important to me is that like our kids can see that we like care and that we try and that we still like enjoy each other's company. And I think the thing that is most important in relationships is respect. And we both really respect each other.

26:07And that is irrespective of who is a breadwinner. I think it's so important. This is why I love to talk about relationships on the show because it is so related to business. It's like the person you decide to make your husband or wife or partner or whatever is literally the most important business financial decision you will ever make I say this all the time I always like everybody and actually a girl on my team when she got married she was like I've known her forever and she was like you literally told me this when I was like so young that it's the one person you get to choose as your family literally every other person even your kids you don't get to meet them beforehand yeah but no other family member do you get to choose other than your partner and it really will dictate the rest of your life.

26:50Because if I had married someone who didn't want to see me do well, or who's, and we all know people who are in that situation where their partners are threatened by them making more money or anything like that. I think it's, it's really hard. No, I was in that relationship before this. And like, that's why I left. And even it's so funny, like my husband now, he's like, praying being like, let her have a huge exit one day so we can like share in like everything because it's a lot. Right. And I think it's like being with someone who will be there through the highs and the lows and someone who was like, take off time to not work and take off time.

27:25But now that you're the breadwinner and he's like, I see the mission. I see what you're doing. And I'm, by the way, going to follow you. That's like a true partnership through whatever is coming your way. It's like a baton pass. It really is. It was like he was a breadwinner. He felt all the burden and the responsibility, which I mean, to be honest with you, it's a lot. We have three kids. We have three kids in LA in private school. It's an expensive lifestyle to be here. And so like, it has been a real shift for us, but we both appreciate each other a lot. But it probably took a little bit of time for it to get to that point with Tower 28.

27:59So you started it after you had come back from the workforce or you came back to the workforce in another role. And then you were like, wait, I don't want to do this. I want to do this for myself. I came back into the workforce full time with Tower 28. And there was a period of time where I was working, but like still caretaking. And it's really hard to decide like when you spend money on resources like nannies and things like that, because you have this guilt that you're like, I'm not like cash flow positive. I'm not revenue driving. I'm not actually contributing yet. But yet I want to take this really seriously.

28:32and so it's really hard to figure out how and when to make those decisions if anyone is listening and they're thinking about doing this with it and they're married I think one thing that my husband did for us up front is he created a lot of boundaries where he was like listen we can do this at the time he was like if you want us to put money in you're not going to take a salary and like something has to give here and it's either going to be like we can't do all those things and you want to do private school for the kids so I pulled the kids out of private school which I felt really guilty about at the time.

29:02Now I feel like it's probably, if that's like the worst thing that happens to them, fantastic. They need a little bit of struggle in life, right? So I think that was something that I did that I was really happy about. He made those boundaries where he was like, we can't do it all. This is what I need. And then he also said like, how much money are we going to invest? And he put the cap at$150 ,000 in five years. He's like, we're not doing it for more than five years or for more than$150 ,000 in, this can't go on forever. And it can't be this money pit that we keep putting like you see people on Shark Tank that have like mortgaged their house and they have like a million dollars of debt towards their business.

29:37And like, they have five kids. And I'm like, Oh, my God, this is not that mentally, we wouldn't have been able to do that, right? Like he is again, like, he's someone who took us we didn't buy a house until I was, you know, well, like 39. Yeah. So it took a long time for us him to even get into the and we could have afford it. You know what I mean? So it just took a long time to get there for him. So he's a really risk averse person. And I think you have to make each other feel safe. What was it that you saw that was worth the risk of taking your kids out of private school, putting$150 ,000 in towards your business to be like, this is a different product or company that doesn't exist?

30:15I think for me, it's like at some point you had to just bet on yourself. And like I had an investor come to me. I actually went to him and I was like, I'm looking for a job. And I wanted to get back into the industry full time. And I was like, it needs to be something where I have a seat at the table of equity, it's funded all these things. And he was like, honestly, aren't you turning 40 soon? And I was like, yeah. And he's like, you're not going to do it if you don't do it right now. And that was really the kick in the butt that I needed. And I kind of talked about it for a long time. I told everybody, I wanted to start a company at one day, and I just hadn't actually pulled the trigger on it and done it.

30:49And I kept saying it, but it took someone actually saying to me, like, basically shitter it off the pot. Was that because you were afraid of failing? I think it was because I was afraid of failing. But I think I also told myself a story that it was too late. And that because I didn't have money, and I didn't have a partner, I couldn't do it. So I think I saw like, all of the nose in front of me, and I didn't see a path forward. I mean, this was, you know, seven and a half years ago, and when the only people who are raising money that I knew of were, like the Away and the Glossiers and like these big companies that felt so distant from me, or the brands that I had seen come up were like, expert brands, you know, makeup artists, estheticians, but I'd never, you know, maybe like Greg Renfrew from Beauty Counter, but people who raise so much money, and I didn't have any clue how to do that.

31:44And I just guy, this investor said to me, he was like, well, if you have money, you don't need a partner. You can hire people. And I was like, oh, okay, well, I don't have any money. And he was like, I'll be your first money in. And then it was really just the door opened. And so many people actually came to me and said, like, you've been saying you wanted to do this, I want to invest. And I think that was a sign that I should just bet on myself. I often find that people that are afraid to almost like fail publicly are also afraid to celebrate their wins publicly. Do you feel like you hide your success from people in your life?

32:19Absolutely. Why do you think you're like that? Oh, gosh, I think there's a few things. I think one, I really believe in building quietly. I think we have this society that likes to see things get built up and then likes to tear them down. And I just don't want anyone not rooting for me. And so I think there's part of that. I think it's also part of both my nature and maybe even my culture of being sort of a little bit under the radar and not as just braggy. I probably do worry a little bit about, you know, I'm still friends with my same friends from like childhood and et cetera. And like, I don't, I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable maybe if I'm being really honest about it.

32:58So I guess I haven't been as public. It's such an interesting theme that I identify because especially as a woman, there's such a fine balance between being braggy and confident or bossy. And it's just interesting to see women step into their power and own it and not feel like they have to shy away from it. But it's still one of those balancing acts because trust me, like I watch people treat my husband very differently where it's like people just assume he's going to pay for dinner. Like it's just an assumption. And I think it's actually really brave when people disclose things like numbers or success, because I'm like, you are now going to have to for the rest of your life, make other people feel uncomfortable for you to feel comfortable.

33:39What has been the most uncomfortable moment for you building Tower 28? Oh, this is such a good question. Listen, I've been really honest with my team about this internally, too. We are in that messy middle, where the business group, the team didn't. And I would say in the last few years, I probably had a choice of either doing it myself or hiring someone to do it. And I didn't have the bandwidth with only to do both of those things. And I chose to just do it myself. And now I am in that position where it's harder, right? Because we just don't have the team to support everything that we're trying to do.

34:18And so it's like structurally a very difficult thing. We're trying to hire and I don't mean any particular position. It's kind of all of them. We're only 35 people for the size of brand that we are, we're pretty understaffed. Yeah. Do you believe as a woman you can have it all? I believe you can have it all, but you can't have it all at once. Okay. That's exactly what I told Deepika. Yeah. I firmly believe that actually. Like I think there are like seasons to life and chapters to life where you have, like, I don't really believe in balance. But I believe in focus. And you can do like a few things well at a time for me right now.

34:58Like somebody asked me the other day what my hobbies are. And I'm like, my hobbies. I was like, I work and I have family. That's kind of it. And I sometimes try to be a good friend, right? Like, what would you rate your stress level? Oh, I actually feel like I'm not a very super anxious or stressed out person. Okay. The business itself does not really stress me out. I actually find the work part of it. I'm pretty even keeled about it. The thing that stresses me out the most is people. And it's really like anytime I've ever had to like, let someone go or if something's not working out, that stresses me out a lot.

35:31Okay, so you have built like one of the most successful brands at Sephora over the last seven and a half years. Do you have a favorite child? I mean, my favorite child is for sure SOS spray. So I think everyone, everyone asks, do you have a hero product? We actually have our SOS spray and our concealer and our mascara are all kind of hero products for us, which is amazing because from a mix of business perspective, like to be able to have like a skincare product and a complexion product and a color product that all have high LTV is like kind of amazing just from a health perspective. But our SOS spray is really the one that kind of made everything else kick off.

36:09So during COVID, people started using our SOS spray organically and talking about how it was great for like post-workout, but like also blemishes, acne, all kinds of issues. and we were all wearing masks and was so good for maskne. And so it really is this product that people started sending me before and afters for. And I would say like, that's so amazing. Can I use this? If you I'll give you another spray. And it really did. I mean, we sell one every 10 seconds. If someone's building a beauty brand right now, and that is like, I don't really get what a hero product is like, how much of someone's business in a range should make up a hero product?

36:44So the businesses I've worked in a hero product is about 20 % of your business. and ideally what you want is a hero product that can be 20 % of your business but it's also some of your best unit economics so like there have been brands that you and I both know that have literally closed because they didn't expect for this they were like okay I'm just gonna make this product but unit economics are not good but like it's a great product I love it and then then that's the one that starts being really successful and the rest everything below the line can't support the economics of it. So you're selling this product.

37:19It's really popular, but you can't make money. Yeah. I posted a very controversial video about the expectation of influencers and gifting. And as someone who sees both sides 1000 % as an investor and as an influencer, like I had a very specific POV on what the expectation is for influencers with gifting. From Tower 28 perspective, when you gift an influencer or a micro influencer product, what is the expectation of them to post that product? So I believe firmly that because you can't ask anyone to do anything unless you pay them, right? Like it's just not fair. And because we haven't done sponsored content before, I really believe that like, we're just gifting and hoping it's kind of like playing the lottery, right?

38:04Like we're just hoping that people love the products and organically talk about them. That said, we're really investing in things like affiliate where like, if you love it, and you talk about it and like we're kind of in it together like why shouldn't you get some upside out of it have you seen an influencer really move the needle for the brand like beyond anyone else I would say a few yeah I mean like when we had in the very beginning there was an influencer named Nicole Guerrero I don't know if you remember her she's a beauty influencer and she posted I mean this was when we sent in early days and we like we're going on people's YouTube pages and grabbing their addresses and just sending to them like I wouldn't do that anymore like without asking permission.

38:43We were just sending boxes to people because we didn't know any better. And the boxes we were sending, and this is like back when like people were sending like those giant beauty blenders. And we were sending these like sad little shipper boxes with just product inside, like nothing to speak of. And I think we had like 250 followers, like really nothing. And she opened the box, she tried our lip jelly, and then she screenshot pictures of herself buying 10 more of them and posted it and this was so early days and when it happened I woke up the next morning and I was like I thought something broke I was like why why do we have all these orders who are these people like I think I don't remember the actual number maybe it was like 200 orders but like 200 orders when you're used to like 10 is crazy yeah in the very beginning right I mean we had like a Shopify site and like an Instagram mood board really nothing and I still it's funny because I sent her flowers I tried to like whatever and she just like never even responded we were like thank you so much talk to her since no I've never talked to her it's so funny she never did and and nothing but like there have been other influencers but that's probably the most I think you just remember so clearly those early days like I mean I remember those moments when the first time we were at dinner and like I saw a girl pull out a lip jelly and put it on and she probably thought me and my daughters were so crazy because we were all staring at her because there's those moments that you're like, this is real.

40:10Has there been a moment recently that's kind of taken your breath away? I'm on the board of the National Eczema Association. We make all of our products to be compliant with the National Eczema Association. It's a big part of my story and my why. And we decided to fund this year the scholarship program. So they have a scholarship that goes out to, we did$200 ,000 over the course of the next four years. And they have this big expo where they bring in like all of the most, it's like thousands of people who suffer the most from eczema. They're caretakers. They have these little trade show booths where people can show products and things like that, but they have a series of events, whether it's like the big dance at night or like during the day, they have doctors and toxicologists talking about eczema, like why do you have it?

40:52What is a research show? And what it really is, is a community gathering. So they have all of these people who come together that suffer. And they didn't tell me they were doing this, but we'd asked in advance, we're like, can we meet the people who are the scholarship recipients? They're like, no, we want to respect their privacy. And I was like, okay, I get that. But they had told all of the scholarship recipients, why don't you all show up at their booth at 3pm if you're open to meeting Amy and the team. And so at 3pm, all of a sudden, 42 recipients and their caretakers and everybody all crowd around and they self they they stood in this like kind of horseshoe and I just quickly said something like oh my god thank you for being here we're so happy that we could like have you as part of this experience I know how hard it is personally and then very organically they all started going around and talking about how much it meant to them that we made products that were not only clean and safe or sensitive skin but made them feel like they were part of the mainstream.

41:53It made them feel like they were cool. They could finally shop at Sephora and carry the same little black and white bag as everybody else. They could buy the things that their favorite influencers use and not feel like they were relegated to using like, I don't know, Cetaphil or like not to name names. I get what you mean though, because I actually have never talked about this, but I also have really bad eczema since I was a little girl, but mine's not on my face. Mine's actually just like all over my body, but I've never suffered from it on my face. I can't imagine. I've had it on my face. I've had it behind my legs.

42:23And like the fact that I'm even wearing this right now, really weirdly, like all in my ears, like that is the place that it's so painful because I don't spray. Please try it. Yeah, I have. I actually have the little mini one in my everyday bag. And then I never use sprays until my husband literally randomly went to Sephora this summer. He was like, I bought you something and it was like a spray and it was great. And I love it. But when obviously I knew you were coming on, I was like, wait, I'm going to like start to use this as my everyday spray because it's usually just the one I bring in my bag.

42:51And I will say I think my skin has been looking really good recently. Your skin looks amazing. Yeah. So that's the power of the spray. No, it is the power of the spray, but it's also the power of the community. And I think just to create something that you have an intention behind. And my intention was always to like make a safe space for sensitive skin. Like people who not only gave them products that made them feel good in their own skin, but also made them hopefully like walk a little bit different through the world and to see it reflected back in such a literal way and have people who, frankly, were telling me their stories about how they had tried to commit suicide.

43:26And like, I don't know if people really understand, but people who have skin conditions suffer so deeply, not just physically, but mentally, because they feel like they get bullied more. They don't try to go on dates. They don't try to go for job opportunities. There's so much that happens when you don't feel good about yourself. that is palpable and very, very life-changing. And so the ability to give people like the confidence, I mean, I had met a guy there who had been hospitalized for three months because eczema when untreated is basically like an overproduction of bacteria. And then he got sepsis and then he's like in the hospital for a bacterial infection.

44:04So these things are like, they're very hard for people. I think the more that, and actually I think it's so great that you're saying that Because like no one would look at you and think there was anything wrong with your skin. Well, it's actually crazy. Funny little story about my childhood trauma is like when I got my first babysitting job, I had a breakout of eczema and it actually turned into impetigo, which is like extremely contagious. And so I remember because like I loved working. I started my first business when I was seven. I was devastated because my first babysitting job actually got taken away from me because I was going to be contagious because of my skin condition to the kids.

44:39and so it's actually just interesting as my husband knows like i'll be scratching like crazy and he's like oh my god like maggie like is are you having a flare-up and i'm like of which one like i have so many health problems but it is just something that i think the more cool people or like people that are in tune with culture talk about it make brands like this the more that everyone's gonna feel like oh there's nothing wrong with me well i think that's actually the thing that like our mission and what i think that we're able to do really well is not only is it clean and safer sensitive skin and the products work in their high performance but i think there's this like other intangible of like it being cool and yeah sure that and like that's actually the thing we really care about too is we want people to feel like they get to be part of the cool crowd they have that aspirational element that beauty at its core always is yeah okay we're gonna have to go and drop it fire but one of the things i just want to give you your flowers for as i literally wrote down and we didn't have time to answer this but tower 28 is a beauty brand that feels safe without being boring.

45:37And like, I really feel like you guys have nailed that. So the three words we talk about that we want to be and stand for is good, clean, fun. Love that. Okay. Rapid fire. Yeah. What is the last thing you put on your credit card? Oh my God. Anything for my house. So we are, our house, unfortunately, was in the Palisades earlier this year. You know about the fire. So now we live in Venice Beach. And wow, that is taking quite a big hit on my credit card. Oh, because we are remodeling. Is that the most expensive last thing that you bought as well? A hundred percent. We have a leak right now that was like, I think the leak is causing a$35 ,000 ticket just in having to take out the, replace the rotting wood.

46:21And then we have mold. And then, I mean, houses are a money pit. Nightmare. Okay. That's not even the fun stuff. Yeah. What's like the most fun thing that you've put on your credit card last? There is a light fixture that we just bought that I really love. and I'm kind of like, I mean, there's like an oven that I really balled out on. I mean, I feel like in your next life, you're going to well, not even next life. Next chapter is like Martha Stewart vibes. Maybe it's I really love interiors. I mean, we're literally remodeling that house. And we're moving offices. And I'm going to remodel that area.

46:53Like we're just doing a lot of this year is a lot of construction. What is your biggest red flag when hiring? oh my biggest red flag is i have a number of them actually when people don't have any consistency in their jobs where they stay places for like a year or under a year like lots of jobs skipping is one of them the other one that i talk about to my team a lot is when people say that what they really want to do is strategy i'm like oh hmm like don't we all want to spend a lot of time on strategy. I like I need people to like roll up their sleeves and do the work. Yeah. Read receipts offer on.

47:31On. What is your favorite thing in your closet right now? Oh, this is a good one. I feel like I should have some good ones. I just had this blazer from Saint Laurent that I really like. What is your favorite beauty brand that is not yours? Oh, this is so hard. I will say I use Rose, the hair products, R-O-Z. Mara is a friend of mine, but really I, my hair is so long and I really love that leave in milk conditioner. Love that. It's been a game changer. Would you rather Zoom or in person? In person, 110%. Who, who picks Zoom? Well, I actually had someone on the podcast who said Zoom is the most under stimulating thing that you can do.

48:17Like, so it's horrible. I, I love in persons, but it's just hard in LA to get to someone. Yes. Scheduling. Yeah. Like this took us two months to schedule. Yeah. Yeah. Scheduling is hard. Would you rather fire someone or go raise money from a VC? Fire someone. That says everything. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. That's not it. So raise money from a VC. I think I had maybe the best. I raised money from private equity. I had a great experience. I think I had the best fundraise of anyone I've ever known. I did it in six weeks. Like we didn't use a banker. My husband handled it. So that was actually a super seamless and not hard situation.

48:56I just don't need to fundraise again. So like if you were like under your head, like you have to go raise money. I'd be like, I do not want to. Yeah. Amen. Yeah. But fire someone like I truly believe it's like throwing up. It's like if it's the right thing to do, it's the right thing to do for both of you. And you feel so much better afterwards. Yeah. I actually haven't been able to do it like ever. I've actually had to have my business partner do every firing in our company, except last week I actually did fire someone and it was horrible. It's horrible. But it felt better after. It's horrible.

49:27But like, I think if you really believe in your heart and every time I've done it, I believe in my heart is the right thing for both sides. Yeah. And you're letting them go because like, it's literally called letting them go because they have higher and better things that they can do too. Yeah. And I just really believe it's like a fit thing. I love that. Okay, last one reading or a TV show? I wish I would say reading, but it's a TV show. What are you watching right now? I just finished watching Wayward. What is that? Oh my God. It's a Netflix series about reform school and it's a thriller with Toni Collette and it's really disturbing.

50:02And my sister put me on and I watched the whole thing and I was disturbed the entire time. Oh my God. That's like, I hate horror movies or anything scary school cult. Okay. And it's a true story. no okay but it's inspired by okay stories okay amy lu where can people find you and what can they help you with right now oh i love that okay so at tower 28 beauty is our bigger handle my personal one is amy amy liu underscore t28 what can they help me with so we're actually doing an open casting call right now we put it in the new york times and we're doing an open casting call for sensitive skin. So you can go to our Instagram and find the link for it.

50:45But really, the goal there was we really want to show skin that looks like real skin. So textured, acne, all of the things. And it's actually pretty hard to do that when you are using with casting agencies. So that's something we're really working on. And what can people do to submit an application to be in the campaign? Yeah, you can submit an application to be in the campaign. This is a paid opportunity. We really are looking for people who have difficult skin. And where do they go for that? I feel like you're going to get a lot of submissions. Yeah, it's Instagram. There's an Instagram. There's a link on our Instagram.

51:17But it's also if you happen to have a copy of the New York Times from this past Sunday. Oh, my God. In the style section. Is that your first ad in the New York Times? It's our first ad in the New York Times. That's huge. Congrats. Yeah, no, thank you. Amy Liu, thank you so much for coming on Hot Smart Rich. I can't wait to have you back. Love it. Please, anytime.

51:38God bless you! God bless you! God bless you!