Cool World (Classic)

25:25Jason Mantzoukas:Yeah, but you but this movie this movie does require you to make a couple of decisions for yourself because I wrote down a few times here. I don't even know what to write. Yeah, I like you're you're in you're in a world where you're like no one's leading me by the hand. I rewound. There was a couple of times where it moved to a different scene and I was like, oh, wait a minute. What was I supposed to learn from that previous scene? And I would rewind it, rewatch that scene and be like, oh, I don't know. I don't know why nails getting trapped in the fountain pen is like dangerous. Yes. I don't know.

26:01What is that pen? Somehow the existence of free-floating ink is dangerous, is like a threat.

26:09Jason Mantzoukas:Well, because to me, I always thought the idea was that they could be erased. Paul, you're holding a pen up right now on Zoom. And I don't know if that's a threat or not. But well, are you a doodle? If it is, if you're a doodle. I mean, but like at one point Brad Pitt like takes his pen out and goes, this is a weapon here. Then he shoots ink into Nails' like liquor cup and he drinks it and nothing seems to happen. Who are you? Who are you? I didn't create you. No shit, Sherlock.

26:41What'd you do with this, dudes? I'm a cartoonist. I drew all this. I have visions. This place exists with or without you. You believe me, right? I'm not one of your creations. You're not pretty. Good one. Ordinary fountain, right? Yeah. Wrong. Around here, sit down. Around here, this can be a big nuisance. You thirsty, Nails?

27:13Get it? One should be careful how they wave this thing. No, I don't get it. Of course you don't get it, because you're a wackadoo. And around here, everything goes, everything except one thing. Yeah, what? Noids do not have sex with doodles. Right? Noids do not have sex with doodles. You think she's got a thing for you, don't you? That's sweet. But don't flatter yourself. She's a waste of ink. Are you? Truth is, she's been after me and every other noid who's come through here. It's just that no one's been insane enough to get involved with her. You keep your pencil in your pocket. You know what I mean?

27:59Okay. So you guys know, right? Okay. We all grew up, I'm sure, watching Looney Tunes cartoons. Yes. You know the episodes. Every once in a while, there would be an episode where the animator, where Bugs would talk to, or Daffy Duck would talk to the animator. And the animator's hand would come in and erase Daffy Duck's beak so he couldn't talk anymore. Or would the hand and the pencil would come in and fuck with the drawing, right? And it would break the fourth wall of animation to presume someone else is controlling us. We do not have free will, right? We are not characters that exist. We are the mouthpieces of this godlike other hand, right?

28:49Jason Mantzoukas:It's not a Space Jam world where these characters are shooting their own TV shows and acting. So what I expected was Gabriel Byrne would be that character. And he even says to Hollywood at one point, can I erase you or I can erase you? like he's he makes a threat almost like i can erase you uh which confused me because i was like oh is that because that's a story i can get on board for you know the creator of a world gets sucked into it and has to you know through his knowledge of the world he created figure out either how to get out how to make the world better whatever but brad pitt's presence really fucks that whole thing all up because it appears as though it's Brad Pitt's movie, not Gabriel Burns movie.

29:44And that's when I couldn't figure out who are the gangsters working for? Why is it like a classic 1940s noir with a femme fatale and the bad guys and the cops chasing after them and the

29:58Jason Mantzoukas:dames and the honestly, like somebody took and I know that this is like a probably a hacky thing to say, but like someone took the beginning part of one script and then another part of a script and just kind of merge them together. Cause the first, like the first 15 minutes don't mesh you you're introduced to something and then they reset the entire table. Again, it's, you should just start in prison with him drawing her. She reaches out and we're in like, I don't even think we really even need the Brad Pitt character. Cause even at the end, the Brad Pitt character doesn't serve to save the day or just stop Brad Pitt's character has no arc, period.

30:37Jason Mantzoukas:No arc. He is not a hero. He is just along for the ride. There is nothing that he does. The only story point that we get, and spoiler alert, is that he becomes a cartoon at the end. I mean, that's it. It's interesting. Gabriel Byrne and Brad Pitt are redundant. Yes. They're redundant characters because they are both on some kind of a journey, but Gabriel Byrne is the only one who has real power and agency. You know what I mean? He's the only one who can change it because he created it in a weird way. But why doesn't he know Brad Pitt is there is what I couldn't figure out. I mean, here's the thing.

31:20I connected more to Brad Pitt's journey because I did feel like, okay, here's this guy who's suffering from PTSD and is trying to honestly accept reality as it is, that he is both not in the war and that a terrible thing has happened. And I don't know if you get, like I know what Doc What's-His-Face says in the beginning, but it did seem like the fact that he was so disoriented made him more and so unable to figure out what was real and what wasn't and still in such trauma over the war and what he had seen made him more susceptible to being like sucked into this doodle world. Like there was something about his brain and the way his men, what was happening with his mental health, which made him a prime candidate.

32:11Jason Mantzoukas:But do you think his mental health, I don't think his mental health was off until he was violently thrust off that motorcycle because he seemed to have come home from the war perfectly happy. He was wearing that brand new suit. He had gotten that new motorcycle. He seemed happy-go-lucky, unfazed by the war that he just fought. Only in that moment did his brain get a little bit jostled. Like, I see what you're saying and I appreciate it. Well, maybe that's true, that maybe it was just triggered by him being, you know, in this terrible accident. But either way, it did seem like there was this, that he was primed to get sucked into the doodle world.

32:46But what I did like about his journey was it did seem at the end, like, I don't know that he didn't have a purpose. Like, I kind of thought he went back to the real world to die there to become a doodle. Like he knew going in, yes, I'm going to try to save the universe, but I'm ultimately going to sacrifice my body and die so that I can become a doodle.

33:11Jason Mantzoukas:Why would he want to even save Cool World? Like what is there? Just a hiding spot for him? I mean, what is the threat? That lovely woman. What is the threat that Cool World and Real World will just, because, you know, because what happens is you know once gabriel byrne fucks the cartoon like so the one rule of cool world is noids which is what like humanoid i guess is what it is right humans cannot have sex with doodles period like that's the right that is the one enforced rule but there's only one human in the cool world and that's brad pitt who is abiding by that law to a degree now let me that is this yeah i mean that is his oh that is the one thing he can do in his job description and he's the only one that could possibly break now does the law this so that begs the question why does the law exist right something must have happened i mean there were doodles before i think they probably got really close to having sex.

34:17Were there noids before?

34:19Jason Mantzoukas:Well, let's talk about the spike. Because the spike is a children's story that they tell the doodles about a doodle that escaped to the real world and put a spike in the top of a Vegas casino. And if you take out the spike, you're essentially taking the plug out of the inkwell. I mean, this is, I don't even really venture to go there. Fucking bananas. Isn't that Doc Whiskers? Did Doc Whiskers? Isn't that Doc Whiskers who escaped? into Vegas. Oh, I thought it was Doc Whiskers. No, because Doc Whiskers said, I tried to touch the spike, but it was too powerful for me. And then she says, get out of here, dummy.

34:57Jason Mantzoukas:I'll do it. No, at the very beginning, Doc Whiskers has the spike, right? And he's using it to open the portal to Toon World. Whoa, I missed that. While that was happening, I was just screaming. I was just screaming uncontrollably. And I was writing, why does the spike look like sperm? It does. It is an odd looking spike. When I saw those cartoons show up, I just started screaming. I mean, I missed that whole scene. You thought June like what I love about this show is I get to watch many of film with June and she never knows what she's in store for. She doesn't she she is going in completely blind so when june starts watching this movie i think you're thinking it's a 1940s of course military man come home movie and so for you to have that pure reaction that you didn't even understand that cartoons are in it was one of the most joyous experiences i've ever had in my life see doc whiskers can you even imagine jason were you aware there were cartoons in this idea i was Yeah, I knew this to be.

36:08No, I had not. I didn't see any. I didn't see any art. All of us. No, no. This must have been very unsettling. It was. And I've never seen this movie before. And frankly, I've never seen Who Framed Roger Rabbit before. Oh, really? Which is interesting. You gotta watch that. It's a great movie. I kept while I was watching this being like, oh, I'm annoyed that I've never seen. I'm annoyed, first of all. I just want to establish I am annoyed. But I'm annoyed because I haven't seen Who Framed Roger Rabbit, and I feel like a bunch of us conversation-wise will be drawing comparisons, and I was like, fuck, I'm going to be out on that.

36:52But I knew this to be a cartoon world, but the thing that I did remember about it was that it was dirty. like the story around this when it came out was that it was dirty.

37:08Jason Mantzoukas:This came out prime blockbuster time for me when I was working at blockbuster and I never rented it, but it seemed like, Ooh, this is, yeah, like this is going to be like the dirty who framed Roger Rabbit. Although I never reached out to get it. I just think that we're trying to explain so much and the simple version of the film. And I think it's actually a really great idea. as like a creator being trapped within his creation. I mean, there was a John Candy movie, I think called Delirious, that was like that. Like he was a soap opera writer who gets like sucked into his own soap opera and he's gonna write his way out of it.

37:44Jason Mantzoukas:You know, I think Stranger Than Fiction has an element of that. But like, that's the simple way in. Oh, the idea that not only that, but what's even so much more compelling about it, which I think is such a great starting point, is a man, like, let's maybe, and I don't, again, because we don't get into the murder and all the rest of it, but like a man, an imprisoned man who falls in love with the woman he's drawing. And that is, that is the only way he can escape is into this fantasy world. That's, there's something quite compelling about that. Like as we, and I will say, as we sit right now, many people stuck in small places, stuck in quarantining prison-like conditions.

38:33It is, I can imagine a world of wish fulfillment, of wishing to be elsewhere, a world in which there are no rules, a world in which there is chaos, any of that. Like that's, I understand that.

38:49Jason Mantzoukas:But yet when he gets there, he seemingly is like in awe of it, not like, oh, I know that this door opens up into this thing. Yes. Like it seems like he's a visitor in this world. He doesn't seem like he has any... It feels like the first time he gets sucked in is the first time he gets sucked in. Right. You lose even the fun of the master is now in the world. That's what I don't get. You know, like, that's why I feel like if the movie had been about Gabriel Byrne's character and his, um, his, like, discomfort with wanting to have this love with Hollywood, but the knowledge that to do so would potentially collapse both of their worlds.

39:34That's a movie. Like, unrequited love. This is what I don't understand. Why make him a murderer? Why? Why not make his wife dead?

39:47Jason Mantzoukas:And they're both dealing with grief. These two men, one with his wife, one with his mother, and they both are looking for an escape, and they switch spots. But they're both murderers, but they were coded. We're coded to tell us Brad Pitt wearing gray, which is like the hero's color scheme, and Gabriel Byrne only wearing black suits, a black jumpsuit in prison and black suits on the outside. Like he is meant to be the bad guy. And what I don't understand is why they don't seem opposed. They don't. They're not at odds. They are not like that. It doesn't make sense to me. The only thing that they're against is Brad Pitt's like, don't fuck the person that you want to have sex with.

40:38Jason Mantzoukas:But he doesn't abide by that rule. The doodle. The doodle. Yeah, sorry. You're right. Sorry. I didn't mean to say that. And I apologize to anyone else. Yes. The doodle. Doodles out there. Sorry to doodles. But I also feel like Kim Basinger's character Hollywood, and Hollywood, if she could, and she did, which I think was the tagline of the movie, is that when she gets into the real world, she starts acting like a child. But she's very manipulative, and she's living seemingly a very rich life in cool world. It's not like, oh, I've never touched anything before. It's like, you're in that world. She's doing, my stepmother is an alien.

41:16she's acting as if everything is brand new to her where right and i understand that everything is tactile there's a lot that's new she was two-dimensional well yes she was but here's what i don't understand yes she was she was a drawing of course yeah but she's in a world of why was she able to for example this is where it broke down for me where i was really like I don't get the rules. I understand. Did you throw your book out the window? Book went out the window. You know, guess what? I'm rewriting the rules. If it's like two dimensional world, fine. And it is characters who yearn to be real.

42:03Right? Okay. But when Gabriel Byrne falls in or Brad Pitt, I can't remember what it is. Someone burns him with a cigarette. So there is the ability for them to have cause there's causality in their actions and reactions like they are not when he goes to touch her. He is able to physically touch her. He is able to be burned by her cigarette. Right. It's not like they exist. It's not like he is three dimensional and they are two dimensional.

42:34Jason Mantzoukas:It is Brad Pitt cups his girlfriend's face like he puts his arm around his girlfriend. He's in a car that's three-dimensional and then sometimes two-dimensional. It seems like everything is working. Why in Cool World are some settings and cars practical real-life cars, not drawings of cars? That's, again. And this is where I think the Roger Rabbit comparison is really the only one to talk about where you say the rules were very clean and clear. This is what happens. This is the world. Like here, it's a junk drawer of animation. Everything is happening to the point that it just feels like they're just like more dump more shit into every frame.

43:19Jason Mantzoukas:It's it's a it's a mess. It's a mess of of things, styles, attitudes. You can't fuck a tune. A doodle. Why is there like why is. Yeah. How does he know that? Did his boss tell him? Has there been evidence of it before? Like what's did he do it once and it went poorly? because here's the reality brad pitt's character has a girlfriend who wants to fuck and they can kiss and they can do other stuff i guess but they can't kiss they do kiss they said they can get they can they say they can get close to it yeah they do they kiss on the mouth yeah i thought that they like watch each other and masturbate or something because like she's like we can do definitely do that they are for sure mutual masturbating they are for sure doing hand and mouth stuff but like and probably finger stuff you know is which i don't think they're doing that but like sex sex makes it like a magic trick that you can then go to the real world i guess but i don't know well no then you become real but like but but if but if she becomes real like is she manipulating gabriel burn this entire time does she just want to become real or does she love gabriel burn because paul she's manipulating him but why to become real to become a real because i think it's like a real lady i think she wants to become a real girl but she doesn't like have any feelings for this person who created her like no she's like get me yeah no she just wants she just knows that he's a sucker that will fuck when she gets to the real world she's like men look at all these men and she wants to smell the men she wants yeah and is that frank denatra Junior she's like let's make it is yes it is yeah she said like she said like I can have I can have sex with any man in this room or something but then also in that scene she starts reverting back to her cartoon shape but it's a different cartoon shape well they both start having like like fits or spasms of cartoon um of tune tune stuff like they both like suddenly suddenly Gabriel Byrne's hands are big giant like toon hands or whatever.

45:32Like they're having like. Like toon episodes. Yeah, like they're having like toon seizures and coming.

45:39Jason Mantzoukas:But I get that. But why is she turning into a different toon? Wouldn't she just turn into her own toon again? That's what I don't understand. She's in a different body. I thought I actually liked that cartoon, that doodle that she was turning into. I thought it was really funny. I just think she it almost felt to me like whatever that doodle was. was an earlier version of Hollywood. Okay. Oh, interesting. I thought it was just, I thought it was because they had broken the barrier, like tune shit was just like happening to them. Like free form tune stuff. Like it was out of control basically. And that's why when more tune stuff starts happening, Las Vegas starts to become, people at slot machines start turning into wolf tune character.

46:31And like, and what I did like, I like, and I, and I know like this movie, I want to be very clear is not good and is, it is incredibly difficult to make sense out of. Yes. But I found a lot of the animation stuff, a lot of the animated chaos fun. fun like when i i guess is overrun by chaotic toon characters like that stuff was i enjoyed that like they did it was like i enjoyed the kind of but because that to me i was like this i get but this is chaos this is toon world invading vegas got it okay but but my whole thought my

47:15Jason Mantzoukas:thought about that is if tune world invades vegas then it just becomes cool world right so why would you want to create another cool world oh i don't think i think it's like i think it's like um i think this is akin to a um multiverse story and that okay you know and that if you open a, if once you start, if you travel between multiverses and try, if you go, it's just like, you know, Rick Remender's Black Science or any number of, you know, multiverse specific comics or anything like this. When you are, when you're talking about going between things, the effects are catastrophic on both ends right like right so right so she doesn't she doesn't intend to create another tune world but she does want to get the spike for what reason maybe just to become permanently real that's maybe to destroy it so that like is she trying to destroy the spike so that she can just be now so that nobody can come get her and bring her back i think part of it is I want to become real real, but she is real real.

48:39Jason Mantzoukas:I don't know. And it bothers me that it's so it bothers me too. I have great news. Malcolm in the Middle is back. My life is fantastic now. In a four part event. All I had to do is stay completely away from my family. Your biggest problem is that we exist. Everyone's invited to the Can't Miss reunion of the year. This family's behavior is toxic to me. We'll just take turns fighting and creating disasters. That's what families do. Malcolm in the Middle, Life Still Unfair. Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply. In a food system this big, Feeding America races to make sure good food reaches neighbors facing hunger.

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50:09Jason Mantzoukas:All plans come with high-speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. Bring your own phone, your own number, activate it with the eSIM in minutes and start saving immediately. No long-term contracts, no hassle. If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. shop plans at mintmobile.com slash hdtgm that's mintmobile.com slash hdtgm up front payment of 45 for three month five gigabyte plan required equivalent to 15 per month new customer offer for the first three months only then full price plan options available taxes and fees extra see mint mobile for detail here's the thing about cool world that is very true and it's also true for alternative comics at the time.

50:57Cool World is like sexual depravity. Like it is a world of lasciviousness. Like it is like the world that existed in like in the kind of, in the alt comic worlds of like the 70s and 80s. Like I'm talking like, you know, Crumb and all this stuff that was beyond was there was a lot of like sexual lasciviousness creating creating animated and cool uh not cool but animated the animated cool world aesthetic felt to me like those 70s 80s erotically charged lascivious like uh cartoon like uh um i'm trying to think of a couple of fritz the cat heavy metal all have this kind of stuff as a part of it. I do like that.

51:52Jason Mantzoukas:I like that idea that is a merging of so many styles. There's like a Frank Fazetta kind of images in the background. Then there are simple Looney Tune images. She's a little bit more of a modern-day cartoon character. There's so many different things. And then when Gabriel Byrne, and we haven't even talked about this, and this will be, we're getting towards the end here, when Gabriel Byrne turns into a superhero, that kind of looks like a traditional... Shazam. Shazam, yeah. He looks like he's basically got Shazam's color scheme. And he looked like Gaston from The Beauty and the Beast. But why would he transform so crazily into that character that has nothing that looks like him?

52:35I mean, is that what he's always wanted to be? Cool World doesn't seem to have superhero archetypes. You know what I mean? No. It isn't like a cool, it is like a seedy underworld. Like, it's gangsters, and she's a, she, you know, like, Hollywood seems to be like a gangster's mall, and, like, everything, the archetypes are 30s and 40s gangster movies. They're not, like, superhero stories. They're not Silver Age DC superhero world they find themselves in. They find themselves in what looks like a noir. It looks like a femme fatale setting up a dupe to kind of get one over on him. It's more like a film noir in its kind of setup.

53:26She's just using Gabriel Byrne as leverage to get into the real world like that, you know, blah, blah, blah. all the kind of, and the cops are corrupt and everything. Nobody's seen. And none of it seems though, I'm grasping at all of the kind of little things to try and make order out of it. But there really is no goal. There's no stakes. There's no protagonist. There's no antagonist. And there are no set rules. So it's just a matter of visual stuff and yes hunky brad pitt i think i think that they thought they could get away with what if we just

54:08Jason Mantzoukas:made a movie where jessica rabbit was more sexual and and and at the end of the day that's what they decided that they would commit to because this is a movie that i said it was pitches this very simple idea about uh basically uh an estranged daughter trying to kill her father that then the script is given to somebody else and they rewrite it then it's given to somebody else It was supposed to be a horror film. Then it became a comedy film. And then it went from R to PG-13. Brad Pitt switched roles. Brad Pitt was supposed to be the creator of Cool World, the comic book artist. And Gabriel Byrne was supposed to be the detective.

54:44Jason Mantzoukas:And they switched. Then Drew Barrymore dropped out. And then Kim Basinger came in. Then Kim Basinger decided to switch. And then Frank Baschke came to set and punched the producer in the mouth. Like, this movie was plagued from start to finish. The backstory of this movie is insane. And it's a mess. And I think that what we're reacting to is some editor was in a room going like, I think this kind of can make sense a little bit. Because also it feels like the animation is done in a vacuum where it's like, I don't even think Kim Basinger is basing her performance on what she does in animation in a real world.

55:25Jason Mantzoukas:I feel like that's two separate performances. Well, that's the thing is in in Cool World, she is clearly in command and in control. She is she's playing everybody. She's the smartest person in any room. She is without a shadow of a doubt. She is also like the the one of the most famous people. She's this she's this icon. and she is the iconography of Cool World, really. Yeah. She is it, right? So it's such a powerful character that when she gets to the real world and instead it becomes more like my stepmother is an alien as if everything is like discovery, brand new, it takes away some of what I, it takes away some of her, she is so often the driving engine in cool world because it's what she wants that we're seeing and that when we come into the real world all that slows down and it becomes really just like i'm not sure what's going on you know like i'm not sure what the goal is i mean i imagine if we had given her another week or two to just sit in her body and just experience like the funk the basic functions of a body you know she might gain some of her confidence and power back but june what do you think but do you think that she's is that different from being two-dimensional three-dimensional because she's seducing him like she would seduce like as a three-dimensional character she she just seems so like she seems like that that scene where the neighbors come over she's having a hell of a time being a real person and is just enjoying it.

57:20And I think we're seeing her kind of on vacation where she's like got the things she's always wanted. So yes, she is a bit different and she's not as, but I, I genuinely enjoyed that part of the movie because I thought it was just fun at least. And the rest of the movie was so grim to me. And so with all these doodles, like it was not I did not want to be in that doodle world I did not like it I didn't like seeing those things flying by like it was all so unsettling to me by the way when they go to Vegas

57:55Jason Mantzoukas:also disgusting like it's the only time I've ever seen Vegas in a movie that looks like Vegas in real life it's just like yeah dark it's dim it was not aspirational it was not like wow it was a real gross point of view of Vegas. It was not good. The movie itself, it has darkness within it. The movie itself is not pleasant. There are no heroes to root for. Everybody is done and behaved reprehensibly in some way, shape or form or feels they have, you know, no. And maybe that's part of it. But it was really it was it was I don't know, man, it was it was it was tough to watch. But I will say and again, I am just catastrophically lonely.

58:58I really was like, I would like to hang out with that animated Hollywood. Like she's looking great.

59:05Jason Mantzoukas:this is but she's the villain jason she's the villain she wouldn't want you she'd use you she is the negative point of a femme fatale you want to fall for the femme fatale that's what that's why the femme fatale is successful in leading the the the leading man down the road to disaster and ruin that's the that's what's great about a noir you know is is oh believe me i know as we talk about that on unspooled all the time what's that i said we talk about that on unspooled all the time you guys have you guys wrapped that up now that the covet has hit no it's actually going real strong we're doing live shows we're really getting it out there we're really uh having so much fun just kind of breaking down these archetypes yeah it's good to know you're pouring a lot of energy and effort into into doing unspooled that's cool yeah we well you know we got to get a lot of guests it's hard to get guests for you know in the quarantine but we're just really trying to get the we're trying to get cool guests in the show and that's really what the It's hard to get, well, I mean, June and I are right here.

1:00:03Jason Mantzoukas:Sure, all right, let's move on. Let's move on right now and continue here. So obviously we had opinions about this movie, but there are people out there with a different opinion. It is now time for Second Opinions. You want it? You want it? You want it? You want it? The movie was a piece of shit, yet this person recommends it. Tell me what is the message Maybe that art is subjective I need a second opinion Alright, so guys, these are five-star reviews called from Amazon.com. The average rating of this movie is 4.3 out of five stars. There are 412 total reviews. 67 % are five-star reviews. Only 9 % are one-star reviews.

1:00:57Jason Mantzoukas:Andrew Cisnell in 2019 writes, Ahead of its time, I've never seen anything like it. This is why life is worth living. All men. Five stars. Don't know what that means. All men. That all men, I guess maybe like this is why we'd all love to have someone like Kim Basinger. I guess that's the point, I think. All right. This one from Destroy777 from 2015 writes this, Brad Pitt is hilariously young. Five stars. Very low bar for the five stars. And there are some really interesting ones in here. Um, this one is, uh, a lot of these Douglas Helvey. My daughter loves cool world. Jeannie M. Rasmus. My daughter was looking for cool world.

1:01:55Jason Mantzoukas:I forgot it. It existed. I bought it. It's perfect. Um, and then I wanted to read this final one for you here. This is a little bit longer, but it's kind of great. It's from JC. It was written in 2003 and it's goes like this. The title Cool World is meant to be a sarcastic quotation. Holly seems to portray evil in the most appealing way. There's a lot of evil going on in the background and foreground of this film throughout. Temptation, I believe, is the main subject. But there are other subjects tackled in the movie as well. If you have only seen this movie once, it deserves a second look. And if you still don't get the message, then I can only say that Cool World is a reflection of the people who really are.

1:02:42Jason Mantzoukas:And it's ironic that so many people seem to hate this film. You simply can't compare this to Who Framed. That movie was a typical Disney flick. Cool World is a satire of our society. Five stars. There's one line I didn't put in because I didn't know how to get it in here, but this great world, it goes, this great line, Cool World is a complex film and it was written as a puzzle for people to figure out later on. Wow. I think that... Five stars. I do think you can look at Cool World, and I'm sure the writer somehow, this was the writer's like, ha, ha, ha. I do think Cool World slash, you know, it's not for nothing.

1:03:28Her name is Hollywood. I think Cool World and, you know, Hollywood are supposed to be like, you know, Hollywood, Los Angeles. Like, I think it's supposed to be.

1:03:39Jason Mantzoukas:It should have been Los Angeles instead of Vegas, though. Exactly. It's I think it's meant to be a place of avarice and vice. Like it is where you push down all of your grossest urges and desires, because that seems to be what the people of Cool World concern them. Everybody in Cool World is a bad guy. Everybody is a villain. Everybody is a crime boss. There are no in Cool World. You never go to like a light venue. You never go to like a pleasant place. The all of Cool World is seedy and gross and dangerous and people are duplicitous and liars and nobody can be trusted. I don't get it. Like, I don't understand what the movie is trying to show me about humanity or about ourselves.

1:04:35I don't know what it's meant to show me about relationships. I don't know what its message or theme. I don't know what the theme of this movie is.

1:04:43Jason Mantzoukas:Well, I mean, do you think that we should listen to JC and like watch it a couple more times and see if we can unpack it? Here's one thing I will say, and I'm very, very reluctant to say this. I don't want to say this. But this movie is as close to a Jacob's Ladder scenario as I've seen in a very long time. You know, guy gets hit in the first scene on a motorcycle. He first goes into wartime flashbacks. And then as he's dying, he this cartoon thing that he's aware of this comic book or whatever. He just I'm so sorry. Is he dying though? Is he dying? He could have been. I mean, he was hit head on with a Studebaker.

1:05:34His mom dies, but he doesn't look like he is sustained. He's talking. He's conscious. He like gets over to her. He doesn't look like he is sustained, like devastating. I agree. But the mom only has a little bit of blood coming out.

1:05:53Jason Mantzoukas:The mom only has a little bit of blood coming out. But like, I'm also saying he's mentally fractured. You know, like maybe this, maybe it's not a Jacob's Ladder scenario. Maybe if they, how about this? If they pulled back at the end and he was like in a mental institution, just drooling on himself, and the cool world comic book was in his lap, would you be like, ah, that's what this all was? Yes, but by the way, here's a better version of this story. I don't know if either of you remember, there's a TV show back when I was a kid called Amazing Stories. They just kind of came out with it again on Apple TV.

1:06:25Jason Mantzoukas:But there's a great episode about like a World War I or World War II pilot. They're in a bomber. And he's an animator or an illustrator. And they're under attack. And he starts drawing like a wheel for the plane, a cartoon wheel. And it becomes real. And he actually saves the day that the plane lands like on this cartoon wheel. Like he's able to like take his drawing into the real world. And I think the problem with this movie is we are introduced to a lead character. Like that opening scene, like if he's been getting through the war by making these comics, great. Like if he's the original artist, if he's the Stan Lee and then Gabriel Byrne took over after he died.

1:07:05If we even knew that he read comics. Sure. Yes. We need some connection. Let's see him first in a foxhole. Everything's going crazy around him. And the only thing he's clutching is that comic. Listen, if we knew his mom read comics. comics waiting for him to come home.

1:07:22Jason Mantzoukas:So many ways to go. But I guess the question that only matters is, would you recommend it? Jason, I'll let you go first. Would you recommend this film? You know? Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to say yes. I mean, it's a fucking weird movie. It's a weird. You did a 180 there. Early on, you said you wouldn't. And now you've come back. I think that this conversation, maybe it is a puzzle that we're unlocking. I would. I mean, like, this is I think it's it is hmm listen if you've listened to the podcast and you've gotten to this point and are waiting to decide whether to watch it I think you'll know what you're in for so I say yes watch it because I think there's a ton of and then that's on you yes that's on you I think Because there are huge problems with it structurally.

1:08:13Huge. It really is a confounding jumble of nonsense. But within that, I think there is some incredible Ralph Bakshi art. I think there is some incredible animation. I think there is really fun, weird side characters, side bits of physical comedy in the cartoon world that are fun and interesting to watch. Like I was still drawn to watch it. It wasn't it was annoying me because it was confusing and needlessly so. But I would I would recommend watching it for its look. Look, there are not many movies that do this. You know, there are not many movies that attempt this. Big swing. This is without question a failure.

1:09:01In no way is this a success. but there's something about it that if your expectations are, this is going to be a mess, but there's interesting stuff in it, then I, I'm, I'm always, I always think, listen, also, I will say, Wolf, watch Ralph Bakshi's the Lord of the Rings. Like it's unbelievable. So interesting. You know what I mean? It's like, like this is a master at work. So it's, it might not be a good movie, but there is, there is somebody incredible doing doing stuff in it that being said it's bad it's a bad movie it's not worth it and if you are watching it and are like i don't understand what jason's talking about i hate this please feel free to turn it off uh june yeah i agree i mean it's something to see it's something to rest your eyeballs on and and that's kind of it so for me i don't care for animation.

1:09:59I don't, it doesn't, I've never connected to it. I just don't. Again, I love Two Framed Roger Rabbit, but I don't, I'm not going to watch something for the animation. And so I just didn't really, nothing dazzled me in that world. I love the transformation of Hollywood into a real person. And I liked her in that, I liked her performance and I thought there were some really fun moments when she became a human, but that's kind of it. It's a bunch of gobbledygook and doesn't add up to anything. Again, I just, I really, I can't impress upon the audience enough. Just imagine, just watch the first, I would say watch the first 20 minutes after listening to this podcast and just think about what I went through having no context for what was about to happen.

1:10:59And also watch the first 20 minutes and realize how little you understand what's going on. Yes. You know, like I was a full 40, I looked 40 minutes in and I was still like, what's going on? What story are they trying to tell?

1:11:19Jason Mantzoukas:Yeah. maybe we're telling you if you watch this movie know that it's kind of hard to wrap your head around so you can enjoy it and you can really kind of parse it out like you're not dumb for not getting it no we've just wash over you you know yeah let it wash over you one of those movies that's a good like stoned watch oh yeah oh absolutely visuals are delightful and funny and weird and crazy. And you don't need to worry about the story because that's, I think, I don't know. That's kind of what I feel like would be the satisfying part is the cool world, all the nonsense of the cool world. Like that, like I loved, you know, like it scratched a lot of my animation.

1:12:03It's just like, I don't know, that seems like a bad building. And they pan up and the building is like this huge circular tower. And I was like, yeah, I like that. I like I like dumb jokes like this, you know, like that are that are fun, you know. You know what I wish they had done? Yeah, but the movie is just like tough stuff for Roni. You know what I wish they had done? I wish they had more fun with like the dimensions of people. Like I wish Hollywood was either a lot taller than the humans or like kind of little. You know, I feel like there were opportunities to just have more fun with humans being in that world.

1:12:44And then conversely, doodles being in the real world. Those opportunities were missed.

1:12:50Jason Mantzoukas:I'm going to put it down on my list of definitely watch it because very rarely on this show am I this confounded or this kind of like, wait, what? And there is a joy in the amount that we have done this show to feel that, like to feel it nonstop for the hour and 45 minutes. It really continues to turn a screw of confusion that I found it to be a unique film that I think is above the fray in how crazy it is. So that's three across the board. The movies that I feel like I find that I would not recommend are movies that just do the thing and then it's all lateral moves from there. It's all just more of the same.

1:13:40And it's like, who cares? Boring. Right. This movie does not do that. It changes the game and the rules every couple of minutes so that it really keeps you engaged, but infuriatingly confused.

1:13:57Jason Mantzoukas:I talked about how this movie had very difficult production issues, but the final straw was the promotion of this movie. The studio literally placed Hollywood, the character, on the Hollywood sign. They built an extension on the Hollywood sign with her, and she's giant. She is as big as the D in Hollywood, and she is sitting on the D. and people freaked the fuck out. That has never been done before. And I've seen some pictures of it. You can Google a picture of Hollywood on the Hollywood sign. People were angry. This movie angered people on every single level. I joked before about the tagline, which I did know, but I will read it to you.

1:14:46Jason Mantzoukas:The tagline of the movie is, Hollywood, if she could, and she will. That's the tagline. And the movie, the budget was$30 million and it grossed$14 million. And I think with that, it's a perfect way to end and say, Jason, June, anything you guys want to plug? June, anything? No, I just want to say again, thank you to all of the nurses and doctors and everyone who's out there working hard, taking care of people right now. especially in the healthcare industry. I'm just so appreciative. That's all. I think there's a lot of great, there's a lot of great, I will echo June sentiment, especially to the medical professionals, the first responders, people who are out there on the front lines of this, you know, absolute catastrophic nightmare that we find ourselves in.

1:15:42Thank you. You're doing absolutely, you know, incredible work under, under unbelievable duress. And in a scenario in which we find ourselves on a ship that appears to be leaderless and without any without any rules. Thank you to people who are trying to make sense of what is going on. And, you know, the more that we can provide any solace, distraction, the more that we can through putting out podcasts or consuming things or whatever, pointing you towards things that can provide some sense of relief. You know, like I know we've been hearing from people who are like grateful for the ability to kind of tune out the nightmare and the world and the news and just have a bit of fun and a bit of levity with the I know I feel it when I see new episodes of my favorite podcasts pop up.

1:16:47So hopefully we are that for you guys. We're happy to be here. And I'm glad that we are still doing. It makes me happy to see you guys on Zoom and talk to you guys about dumb movies that it might seem trivial or silly in this time. But I know there's thousands and thousands of people out there who, when they see our podcast pop up in their podcast app, know that they are excited to have this time with us. And I am grateful for you guys. And I hope that, you know, especially those of you out there who are working in those dangerous fields and are on the front lines of this. I hope that you guys are enjoying these episodes and know that we appreciate you.

1:17:30Well put, Jason.

1:17:32Jason Mantzoukas:And I will and I'll just kind of continue this pass along of supporting all these amazing people. I also just want to give a shout out to all the delivery drivers, the people that are waiting in lines in supermarkets to do your supermarket shopping for you or to go to your target. or working in your favorite restaurant so it doesn't close. And the people that are working on the front lines of, for lack of a better term, comfort. There are so many people that are out there that are doing so much. And from FedEx drivers to delivery people and mail workers and everything like that, I want to give a huge shout out to them.

1:18:11Jason Mantzoukas:And they're spending a lot of time in their cars. and I've talked to so many of them about having this on with them. And so I really appreciate that. And I know for me, small businesses are really important. I really want to make sure that if you're in your community, we're trying to help whether that's ordering in a meal once a week or if that's supporting your local comic book shop, which is actually something that I've been doing with my new Marvel series that Jason's going to be on. We're just talking about local comic book shops and how you can get out there and support them. These small businesses that surround us that we maybe sometimes take for granted need our help right now.

1:18:44Jason Mantzoukas:So, you know, I think there's a lot of ways to get in and support our community. And a lot of these small businesses are really operating in a very dangerous small margin. So they are really under threat. And I think there's also to, you know, a lot of, if you are in a position where you are able to give money to places, there are places that need it. You know, like we did a big mouth table read that benefited feeding America, uh, dot org, the parks and rec episode that aired last week, uh, raised millions of dollars, uh, for a couple of different organizations. So like there are, and those, those things remain, uh, up on YouTube.

1:19:32They are, they are things you can watch an episode of parks and rec, a new episode, you know, there are things that you can watch for entertainment sake, but that are also giving you an opportunity to donate directly to well-vetted, well-sourced charities that need your money.

1:19:49Jason Mantzoukas:And by the way, we are also doing that here at How Did This Get Made? We have two shirts that are all the proceeds go to Feeding America. That's our Quarantine Buddies shirt and our Gish and Gertz shirt. That's Annabelle Gish and Jamie Gertz on a shirt designed by Pete, the S-man Skidase. And we actually saw Annabelle Gish wear a Gish and Gertz shirt. So all that money goes right to Feeding America. But thank you all for, oh, Jason's pulling it out right there. I've got my Gish and Gertz shirt right here. I'm wearing it. I love my Gish and Gertz. I plan on wearing it when we inevitably meet Annabeth Gish and Jamie Gertz.

1:20:27Jason Mantzoukas:It's going to be great. It's going to be a great episode. And also, I want to thank everybody here at Earwolf for all their tireless work of putting this show together. Not only the people that work on the show, like Averill and Nate and Molly every week, but the people that are literally keeping Earwolf afloat. And that is our producer, Cody, and our engineer, Devin. Our team is absolutely amazing. July, I'm sure everyone is going through a lot of stress. And the way that Earwolf has kind of jumped in, and like Jason was saying, like continue to produce these podcasts and made it easy for people to produce these podcasts has just been absolutely mind-blowing.

1:21:04Jason Mantzoukas:So I just want to say a thank you to all of them, essential workers indeed. And we will see you next week on the mini episode. Make sure that you give me a call at 619-PAUL-ASK, 619-PAUL-ASK. You can talk about Cool World. You can explain what I got wrong, or you can just talk about your personal life. I solve problems on that thing. So give us a call, 619-PAUL-ASK, and that will be next week for the mini episode about Cool World. We will see you next episode. Bye for now.

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