Jack

25:11So it's so late into the movie when you find out, oh, they are capable of having another child. Yeah. They're just afraid of that or whatever. And that's interesting. That could be explored. Very interesting. Not at all. Very interesting, especially now that we know, which we don't find out until later. He's going to die in a few years. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And they also, the movie's not about that. I thought for sure the movie was going to be about - Live your life. At the end of the movie would be the end of his life. And that that would be, the movie's thesis would be an entire life lived in a child's, you know.

25:46But this is what's so weird, because they spend so much time, I think, letting Robin Williams do Robin Williams, that we don't get to investigate any of this other stuff. I mean, here's again, this issue I had, when he walks into that treehouse for the first time. Now, that treehouse is very large.

26:04Jason Mantzoukas:Yeah. Okay? It's very, very large. He could, as an adult man, I think, stand up in there. So could Bill Cosby. So could Bill Cosby. Well, once Bill Cosby comes in, it goes crashing into the grass. But there is so much room in there when Robin Williams arrives. Yeah. He falls over everything, knocks into everything. bumping and I'm like but wait just is this his first time walking like this is they're playing something that isn't there well but I feel like this is of that era this is like this is him this is if Jim Carrey were in this part this would be what he would be doing like the outsized physical performance is just we are we're drowning in these kind of performances inside the mid early to mid-90s.

26:52Jason Mantzoukas:He's playing the physicality of a body that he doesn't have, where that works in big because he's a little kid who now is big, so he doesn't understand how his body works. But Robin Williams is a big child who has always been big. Who has grown into his body. And would understand how his body works. I think so. Well, would have to. I mean, he doesn't seem to know where it begins and ends. Right, but as a 10-year-old, he has a mind of a 10-year-old, but he has the body of a 40-year-old. So his body would be the normal thing to him, in my mind. Like, that's the one thing he has. You don't meet a kid who's, like, you know, 10 years old, but inexplicably is just very, very tall.

27:32Sometimes you meet, you know, a kid who's just much taller than their age. And the kid isn't like, I should be small. I think of myself as a tiny little guy. No. You know, you feel. You know what kind of space you take up in the world. Correct. And that's what was just so very strange.

27:54Jason Mantzoukas:I blame the parents. And I'm going to tell you the most shocking look that we got of these parents was the sequence when Diane Lane is scrapbooking with Bubbles on his first day of school. I'm like, this is an unsafe house for a child. Something has happened here that is weird. Like, I didn't like how fanciful that was. I didn't know. I think that she wanted to keep him there, and she had some weird stuff. She's playing robot with him. I felt like they took away her best friend because her husband wasn't actually there for her, and I wanted to examine that. I think that was absolutely in there, is how much she did not want to let him go.

28:36You know, yeah. She didn't want to let him go. She wanted to keep him home, all that stuff. Again, barely examined, you know. Do you think? And the movie is two hours long. It was so long. It just felt like the same scene jumbled up and set someplace else.

28:55Jason Mantzoukas:You know, it felt so similar every time. Oh, I mean, the other thing I want to just pull out from a parent's point of view, and again, just to point out that these people involved with this movie had no idea of how children work. The sleepover scene, I don't know, June, if you had any problems with this. A kid comes over and says, can he sleep over right now? And she's like, okay. and then Robin Williams just runs out of the house and is gone for a sleepover. She knew where he was even going. Didn't have a bag. That's what's so strange about what's going on in this town even. I find it very odd that no one at school just asks him, like, hey, why did the body of an adult?

29:32Like, just some basic questions. Wouldn't everybody in the town know? I would think so. No parent seems to know, like, oh, he's, there's a kid who's started school and and guess what like he's he looks like an adult

29:47Jason Mantzoukas:towns talk these townies would be talking all about that hairy man hanging out with their kids we saw no parents protesting it it should have been like that norman rockwell painting yeah if it was like the legend of billy jean um a movie that we all uh just really loved recently me maybe more than you two the movie would strip out so many of the adults points of view like this movie would be more successful if you really were following Jack and his kid friends. Like, for example, I can't remember his buddies. Louis, John, John. Who's who's Fran Drescher's son? Louis. So Louis, Louis is like to to to Jack, hey, you got to pretend to be the principal to my mom so that I don't get in trouble.

30:31OK, that then happens. But we never see the repercussions of that. Like there are none, Jason. The movie. That's what I mean. The movie should be all about like this house of cards that these kids are building because they technically have an adult in their presence yes that's that's the fun that's the whole money movie exactly and that's just not present at all because the movie can't decide is this a movie that adults are meant to be going like oh or is this a movie where kids are like oh yeah if i if my teacher was j-lo i would want to

31:01Jason Mantzoukas:be a gynecologist as well oh wait he's when that kid said that when that kid said i want to be a gynecologist because of you i was like no listen i know paul talks about his parents point of view but this is mine i i and i find this in a lot of movies at this this uh time where the way that they write young boys 10 year old boys so fucking disgusting because it's like 40 year old men it's so gross when they said they're looking at penthouse and he goes do you think our moms look like this what what is no one is no one is saying that yes adult men are adult men these are the thoughts of adult men but i mean it's also like being a gynecologist is such a like i don't think it's a sexual thing at all it's like oh yeah i get to look at women's vagina like it's like make a boob joke like make it like a simple joke but like it seems so much more aggressive like It seems like you're going to torture these women by being a gynecologist.

32:03Here's the thing about the one question I had about J-Lo. Now, I thought it was a lovely performance. Everyone is great in this movie. Yes. Well, but yes. But when she is asked out on a date by Robin Williams to go to the dance, I did. There was something about that was heartbreaking. I agree, Jason. Although every sort of moment they went for with Hart just made me literally have to like close my eyes and hold myself. Yeah. But she does seem to be really struggling to give him that answer. Did anyone else notice that? Yes. Why is she conflicted on any level?

32:41Jason Mantzoukas:Because I think that what she's trying to do. And here's the thing. I also don't think that J-Lo is a good teacher. But I'm going to get back to that in a moment. I think she understands here is a very sick boy who is looking at her as someone that he can actually dance with. And he doesn't even understand, like, oh, her size to him. He knows she's an adult, but in a weird way, he can be attracted to her because he is that big. I think there's a few things at play. And I think she's trying to let him down easy. But the way it reads is as she's considering it. No, I agree. I agree. Because I felt like the movie was trying to thread the needle unsuccessfully of, I'm sure every year a little boy has a crush on her and asks her to the dance and she lets him down.

33:26But he hits her with, it would look weird if I went with a little girl. It would only look normal if I went with you. And she doesn't know what to do with you. She's stuck. She sees the logic in what he's saying. So this is a new version of an old problem. Well, okay. I agree. It does look like she's tempted. Red real. It does. Just like that moment.

33:51Jason Mantzoukas:I mean, look, I don't know how you put that moment. And I thought this was going to be, I thought she was, or Fran Drescher, it turns out it's Fran Drescher, were going to be like the Elizabeth Perkins in big analog. You know what I mean? Like, that he's going to somehow find his way into having awkward sexual scenarios, you know? But, yeah. Anyway. Well, can I ask this question? It came off real, real strange. If we are talking about awkward sexual scenarios, here's my question for both of you. Was Michael McKeon trying to fuck him? I don't think so. No, I think he was trying to fuck Fran Drescher, wasn't he?

34:27Jason Mantzoukas:Michael McKeon, I thought in that bar is like, I'm like, I know he's talking about not being able to get it up with a woman. Oh, yeah. Right, but I felt an energy from him like. Maybe. Maybe he's gay too? Like, I don't know. Wait, too? Who else is? Oh, I mean, like maybe his other problem, like he couldn't get it up. And at the same time, like it may not be his only problem. I thought you were including Jack in that. No, no, no. Whoa, Jack's gay? But I do think that there was something in the way that he kind of approached, the way the shirt was tucked in a little bit too tight and it was a little bit too small.

35:02Jason Mantzoukas:Toupee? Like, I don't know that he was. This also reeked to me of middle-aged men writing this script of just like, I don't know, man, my dick doesn't work anymore and all my hair fell out. Everybody is just, and nobody is talking like people talk. They're talking like characters talk. Everybody's talking in exposition, just telling you their innermost thoughts. Everybody in the movie is telling you their innermost thoughts except the stars of the movie. they remain enigmas we have no idea how and by the way Paul you said oh J-Lo's looking at him and thinking he's a very sick boy I don't I didn't know he was a very sick boy how about when he fell down the stairs and started having a heart attack then it turns out he's a very sick boy but before that all I know is he's got some sort of a thing that's made him very very large and very matured very early But I'm not looking at I wasn't until then thinking like, oh, he's going to die in seven years.

36:08But like, but that's the kind of and again, that's the movies failing because we're like where it really hits is moments like, what do I want to be when I grow up? Dot, dot, dot alive. I was like, fuck, that's the that this movie has a clock on it, which is his mortality that it will not engage with. Like the movie should be about what fleeting time we have as evidenced by this magical realism kind of story we're telling to show you the totality of life told in such a brief moment. But then allow us to see that. But it barely acknowledges it so doesn't want to be about his impending death. Can I ask a question, Jason?

36:55that's what you're where you're talking about is what i think bill cosby is getting at during his

37:01Jason Mantzoukas:speech where he sort of lets him go as finally june getting behind bill cosby go ahead yeah but actually when he says you know i just want to be normal he said you can't be normal you're not normal you're extraordinary and you're shooting star and this and that If I'm going to be so for real right now, aside from this thing that's happened to him, he doesn't seem that extraordinary to me. That's exactly right. He doesn't offer anything but his size. I don't think he's a shooting star. No, he doesn't offer anything but his size. He doesn't come into the class. He's not a funny liar. He doesn't offer anything.

37:47Wait a minute. So the only way that Jack has value in both of your minds is if he is also extraordinary at something else. Every child is extraordinary. But that's what I didn't agree with Bill Cosby. Show me some personality trait. But like he's a shooting star like every one of those kids is a shooting star. Give me something. All I know about this kid is he likes— Nobody's normal. Everybody's extraordinary. He likes red gummy bears. There's nothing about him that's more or less extraordinary than any other child there. I mean, the only other thing is that he is Robin Williams.

38:21Jason Mantzoukas:Right, right. And by the way, it's a Robin Williams movie that takes away all of Robin Williams' powers. Because we first meet him and he's like, attention, attention. He's doing all the voices. Now, here's the world that I pitch, right? A boy who has grown fast like this. Well, no, my pitch is this. The only thing he had is his imagination. And in 1996, what he does is he comes into the world and opens up these other boys like life by embracing their creative energy and all this other stuff. But he doesn't bring anything to the table. I'd like to add to that. What this story should have been about is these boys should have been going through puberty.

39:04These boys should have been going through their own kind of body horror. Right. And he, as an adult, fully beyond that, already did it, should be able to offer them some lessons about, like, mind over body, about enjoying the moment, about, like, enjoying your body, whatever it is.

39:26Jason Mantzoukas:He should have shaved one of the kids the first time. Yes. Because by this movie's calculations, he's been shaving for a long time. But why, instead of giving them the penthouse, why wasn't he saying to them, guys, you got a couple years left to be kids. Well, he doesn't have the knowledge, babe. He doesn't have the knowledge. Yeah, the movie isn't interrogating that. I know. Nor is it interested really in how he is helping his parents relate to him as a child. Because there is also something fascinatingly bizarre going on for Diane Lane and what's his name? Her husband, yeah. Her husband, who I can't remember that actor's name.

40:10But they are raising now a 10-year-old who is older than they are, who appears rather older than they are. and that is also something that would I think be very interesting and very strange. Let's see them go out to dinner and assume that's her husband. Exactly. Let's see it all. Wait, that's a creepier scenario. It is.

40:31Jason Mantzoukas:My mom did that to me one time. Wait a minute. We were checking into a hotel and she was like, isn't it funny? You could pretend to be my husband. I was like, no, I don't want to do that at all. It didn't come from the person mistaking it. It came from your mom? Yeah, because I think that she thought, like, the hotel clerk said, oh, is that your wife? And I said, no. And she didn't correct them? No. Oh, no. It's really messed up. Really messed up moment. How Did This Get Made is excited to collaborate with Audible. Audible has a massive library of audiobooks and ad-free podcasts. Now, I am a giant audiobook fan because audiobooks help you get way more out of your day.

41:17Jason Mantzoukas:I'm able to kind of check in when I'm in the car. I love an audiobook so much so that I actually created my audiobook, Joyful Recollections of Trauma, to appeal to listeners of audiobooks. And that's what Audible is known for, right? They have this range of amazing titles. There is something for everyone, like The Deal and Heated Rivalry. You could finally read where those series originated from. You can replace Doomscrolling with audiobooks. And it's fun for the entire family. And, you know, don't take my word for it. just listen to my book, Joyful Recollections of Trauma, which is available in Audible that I feel like is going to have a bunch of fun moments for you as How Did This Get Made fans, but also if you just enjoy a well-told audiobook.

41:57Jason Mantzoukas:Audible, stories that speak to you. New members can start listening with a 30-day free trial at audible.com slash bonkers. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. You know, if you could wake up tomorrow and be better at one thing, what would that one thing be? Think about it. Maybe being able to apologize? Maybe putting my phone down and being present with my family and my friends, shopping less online, I don't know. It's just that better doesn't have to come from major victories. It can be from the small habits that you create and how you honor your needs on a daily basis. Most people aren't trying to become completely different.

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43:06Jason Mantzoukas:Finding the music you love shouldn't be hard. That's why Pandora makes it easy to explore all your favorites and discover new artists and genres you'll love. Enjoy a personalized listening experience simply by selecting any song or album, and we'll make a station crafted just for you. Best of all, you can listen for free. Download Pandora on the Apple App Store or Google Play and start hearing the soundtrack to your life. Why was he wearing an oxygen mask at one point? Because I think that's to signify that it's getting worse. Right, because it's like he... That just aging is getting worse? Because at that point, only days had gone by, so I'm like...

43:42Jason Mantzoukas:He's still only 40. Yeah. He's 40 years old with a bad heart. And by the way, we're really being generous with the 40 there. I think. Yes, we are. Yes, we are. Here's what would have been funny. Him telling his parents, like, you got to watch your cholesterol or like. But he doesn't have any of that knowledge. Well, he should because he is living in that body. I would have loved for the events of the movie to have necessitated a perhaps earlier than necessary birds and the bees talk. Oh, that's fun. Wouldn't that wouldn't having a grown looking man as a son? Wouldn't you have to give him a talk maybe at nine or ten versus, you know, everything about it is creepy, though.

44:29Jason Mantzoukas:Everything we're describing. It is creepy because you just go like, that's a 10 year old. That's a 10 year old. And yes, he's got this body. And that's why, like, when Fran Drescher makes out with him, it's like, oh, I don't, there's no fun, there's no fun here. I think there's a, no. Put your tongue back in your mouth, sweetie. I agree. It doesn't work at all. And it, like, the movie can't figure it out. The movie can't establish its tone or what its rules are. It's not a comedy. No, it's a horror. It's not a comedy. It's body horror. Oh, heavens no. And without that release, without that valve of comedy moments, jokes to alleviate or lubricate some of the discomfort, the movie just sits in awkwardness and strangeness.

45:10Over and over and over. Yeah. My biggest concern was during the final credit sequence when they show each character we've come to know and not love and then put the actor's name under it. Okay, so we're seeing Louis, we're seeing John John, we're seeing Diane Lane credited as simply mom, and then we're seeing the dad. But then we see then it's time for Jack. Well, they put up the baby photo of him and say Jack, Robin Williams. The infant photo.

45:47Jason Mantzoukas:Which is not Robin Williams. Like, technically, that's not Robin Williams as a baby. So you think this is something that the union should get involved in this? This is how Fran got involved with it. Is this what activated Fran's politics? Union politics? All I know is that one time they spelled Rob Hubel's name the wrong way in the credits, and he got a lot of money from Paramount. Yes. So I just feel like you can't put up another. Rob Hubbell. And you can't put up another character and say that. I didn't even know, but I guess it's like, I just wanted to understand what are we saying with this?

46:26This is the moment we're all walking away with these not beloved characters, but we're now focused on the baby? Yeah, and I think that really gets at what I feel like the studio's entire interest in the movie is, what if Robin Williams was a 10-year-old? Well, that's it. That was good enough for them. What if Adam Sandler went back to elementary school? What if Jim Carrey couldn't lie?

46:53Jason Mantzoukas:It's a tricky thing because it's not fun. It's just not fun. And it's not fun to see a man be a child. It's just not fun. I don't know. Like, it's like. Without a goal. Right. Without any. All he wants to. And again, you know, like there were moments that genuinely got me. I did cry in this movie a couple of times. A couple of times. A couple of times. Yes. A couple of times. It got me when he said, what do I want to be when I grow up? Alive. It got me when he said, when they take school away from him and he's saying, I want to go to school, don't make me be alone. Well, Jason, now I'm realizing, is this kind of hitting on some of the egg allergy things from your childhood?

47:35It definitely gave me, I definitely felt, I felt seen by the overwhelmingly protective parents fearful of their fragile boy.

47:46Jason Mantzoukas:And your parents used to read the Financial Times, like the Wall Street Journal, like that in a very comical way. Very big, big, old-timey newspaper way. I don't know why. And I felt this way watching Mrs. Doubtfire, too, with the kids, which was an absolute flop of a viewing. Oh, wow. It was not what you remember, Jason. Let me tell you that much. Because the movie wasn't? Or because it just didn't work for you? Oh, oh, oh, okay. I thought it was funnier than it was. And my son turned to me at one point and goes, is this supposed to be funny? Yeah. I was like, oh, no. Yeah. I feel like it's another one of those sweet family movies.

48:20Right. You know? Really. Yeah. I have to say, like, when Robin Williams goes sweet, sweet, sweet, I can't handle it. No. No, it's real treacly. I want to run into traffic. It just doesn't sit with me. No. It's not. It gives me the ick, I believe. I think that's what the kids say. I believe. And I had an easier time, honestly, with Cosby being sweet.

48:46Jason Mantzoukas:When Cosby is the voice of reason in your movie, Cosby is honestly a voice of reason in this film. He's like, you got to get him out there. You got to do this stuff. He's a little bit harsher. We got to let Cosby back. Why does Cosby go to that treehouse? Why? Why is he there? Especially if we learn, as we do later, that he works for the school administration. I think that what he is trying to do is check in on him. He wants to make sure that he's socializing. Check in, walk out. Right. He does not need to stay there. And by the way, this. He certainly doesn't need to eat that, whatever that was.

49:20Why does he want to be part of the kid crew? I understand. I understand why Jack does. Jack's a kid. No, that. Well, he says it later on. He sort of says like, you know, this is why I like to work with children so I don't get mired down on all the adult stuff. Weird. And that's what I feel like the movie's about. Oh, he's improvising. It's middle-aged men who are like, I don't want to grow up.

49:44Jason Mantzoukas:I want to play still. When he talks about his farts, I was like, no, man, get out of here. I don't want to hear about adult man farts. I want to hear about kids talking about their farts. But when you were saying, I've been known to clear a room, I'm like, okay, come on. But here, he got a little taste of his own medicine, though, right? He's been making people drink a bunch of stuff with things in it. So finally, these kids give him a little something. Okay. I will say. A little flip the switch there. When that treehouse fell down. Now, we have several. There's several, like, establishing shots of that treehouse.

50:15It's high up. Oh, and it has, like, multiple floors. Yes, they are all R.I.B. They are all either dead or impaled. Seriously. Like, never recovering from that accident. Yeah, they did. For sure. Like, for real, like, at least one of them they should have to visit in the hospital repeatedly.

50:34Jason Mantzoukas:I do want to say that, June, I know you talked about your biggest jump scare of Bill coming up through that hole. My biggest jump scare is Robin Williams with a beard. When they cut to him with a full beard, that actually made the movie hit in a different way. And I felt even more of like this movie. Every time I thought you can't freak me out more, they did. Well, it felt like in those scenes, I was like, well, are they going to do a move now where he becomes even more of an adult? where he's like, you know what? Fine. People think I'm an adult. I'm going to grow a beard and I'm going to act like an adult.

51:09Nope. He just hides in his room, which was fine. And I understood the why of that. But I was really like, oh, this is only showing me more that he's a grown man. So do something with it. Don't just have him grow a beard and like sit in his room.

51:25Jason Mantzoukas:You just gave me a good idea for another version of this movie. What if he ran away from home? Yeah. Which he does do too, a little bit. But he really, and I think that that moment. That's kind of big. Right. And I think that there, I guess that's the moment that they're trying to get to where he goes outside that club. By the way, I feel so much for that one extra who had to be puking in the rain outside of that club. Oh, when he's walking into that club, there's just a guy outside just vomiting into the street. I saw it. And I was like, I guess it's setting the tone of this club that looks very normal.

52:00Jason Mantzoukas:Like he didn't go into like a biker bar. And, uh, and I just was like, Oh, that guy must've been out there just blowing chunks in the rain. It's like so uncomfortable, terrible thing. But that, that moment, I really wanted him to embrace trying to be an adult. And he doesn't even try. He's just a kid when he goes in there and he's always like, what is that beer? I don't know. He's, he's, he's, he's not just a kid. He's so sheltered. And so without any guard, or any governor on anything he does. He's like a true... It has more in common almost with Rain Man as a two-owner. You know what I mean?

52:39He seems so out of his depth and element that he's not a... He's meant to be 10, obviously, which is young, but he feels even younger, you know, because he's so brand new to the world. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. And that's what's so kind of distressing about it all is that there seems to be two different stories. One is just like the boy in the bubble who comes out into the world for the first time, you know, has been sheltered by his parents. But the other is this kid who is mentally 10 years old in this big, big old body. But it's like the story we get is the kid is 10 years old in this big old body who seems like he's four.

53:24Yes. I agree. That's weird. And what I can't tell is he performing that because that's the kid persona that Robin Williams enjoys playing? Or is that because they're trying to tell a story and dial in? And that's what they're doing a terrible job of. It's all broad strokes, so it feels like I don't understand what I'm supposed to be getting.

53:47Jason Mantzoukas:Cut this movie up into five chapters, right? Oh, wow. Send like the, send like, I'm like. Wait, right now? Hold on. Yeah, cut it up to five chapters. But I mean, when it's... Siri, open final draft. Get myself some cap cut. Here we go. I do believe that, like, it would be really interesting to do a sequence in kindergarten, a sequence in high school, a sequence in college. That's the first two chapters. Right, and then I do think that you would play, like, the very end of his life and he just is able to drink, but he looks like he's dying. You know, he's 21, but he's actually 80, you know, 82.

54:22Jason Mantzoukas:On his 21st birthday. Also, make us understand that only 20 years have passed, but he now looks fundamentally different. You know what I mean? Like, really drill into us from baby to truly elderly man. I feel like Benjamin Button, obviously in reverse, did this very effectively. Sure. Obviously, a movie that is interested in very different storytelling, but nonetheless. How so, Jason? Nonetheless, brings us through all these stages. Just like get us through, like let us see movement between his grades, between his ages, because right now it feels like the entire movie is locked in at this, like I'm an innocent boy.

55:07I don't know. I don't like it. I didn't like it from Robin Williams. I don't like it from you.

55:12Jason Mantzoukas:I hate it. I hate it. I got a remake, Jack. Let's get the remake going. I do believe that like it's because they left it in such a middle ground. I think it would have been interesting to see parts of this boy's life. Now, I agree. You know, there are things that are constantly surprising. I did think, and I'll admit this, I didn't cry, but I did think Pedro Pascal was in the movie, only to realize that that was Father Guido Sarducci, Don Velo, who was the bartender. But I was like, whoa, Pedro Pascal? That's cool. And then I was like, oh, no, no. That was the one comedic moment that I thought was successful.

55:45Yes, 100%. When they were doing their faces back and forth. That's what we needed more of. More of that. He came in the adult world and not knowing all of the sort of rituals and adult sort of, they don't have to be sexual, just adult kind of moments that we all subscribe to that he hasn't learned yet.

56:05Jason Mantzoukas:Well, right. And that's why I think the relationship with Fran Drescher is so misguided because I think in Big, what she likes about him is that he is just innocent and fun. And it's not like every other man that she's been around. Well, he doesn't play games. He's truthful. He's honest. He's, you know. Right. And then what I think in this movie, like he's going farts, doo doo, poopy. And she's like, oh. Oh, wow. Hello, Mr. Powell. My name is Dolores, but my friends call me Didi. So tell me what happened to Principal McGee. I just talked to him on the phone. I don't know what happened to Mr. McGee.

56:41Mr. Powell? He got diarrhea. Diarrhea? Yeah, he got diarrhea. And he spewed. Threw up. Yeah, he had the squirts. He had diarrhea. Listen, you know, if you want to have lunch or something, we can talk about Louie and, you know, just kind of shoot the breeze. What do you think? Oh, got a problem? It's bad for you. Since when is being bad? Bad.

57:18Oh, here she goes.

57:20Jason Mantzoukas:Fran Drescher has to shut off her brain to even find any connection with this guy. Because he's not saying, to June's point, anything special, anything spectacular, anything interesting. He is not a shooting star. I agree. And the reality is that the movie misses not a shooting star. Hashtag not a shooting star. Oh, my God. The movie is not interested. The movie has a gift that is sitting right there, which is Jack is a fish out of water in both the adult and the kid world. And you could play that for jokes, you know, like he doesn't belong in either place. Now, that's very sad and heartbreaking to investigate.

57:59And that's what I think they're trying to do. But there are moments of levity that they barely scratched the surface of that would be so great. him trying to pretend to be an adult in the adult world and him trying to be a kid, but the dissonance of him being this grown adult man.

58:16Jason Mantzoukas:The problem with this movie is it's too sad. It's too sad ultimately. And I know that this is, and I was going to save this to the end and we have a couple of second opinions to get to, is that Francis Ford Coppola grew up with polio and he wanted to make something to reflect the loneliness that he felt with polio. And I get that idea, but that is not how you can deliver this. We need to root for something. I don't root for Jack. I don't feel triumphant that Jack, because really the end to June's point, he's not special. So the real triumphant ending is that he just has lived to graduate high school.

58:52Jason Mantzoukas:To be valedictorian. Well, yeah. He did good in school. Here's the thing. Nerd. What a fucking nerd. He's not special in the same way that no one is special and everyone's extraordinary. Okay? But I think what he, I think what the movie wants us to feel at the end is also that he, he like changed people's lives in this short time he had on earth. But I don't know if I really felt that either. I don't know. Had that kid been a bully to begin with, I might've felt differently. I mean, I guess he did call him a freak outside the house before he knew. But we weren't with their journey enough to really feel like, oh, thank God they had this experience of having their hearts expand and building empathy.

59:46And what it felt like was that that little crew of boys who begin by being like, oh, freak. And there's a freak that lives in that house or whatever, blah, blah, blah. And then they then they get to know him. Then they recruit him on the basketball team. And then they do the whole run of like, can Jack come out and play? Can Jack come out and play? And I thought that was very sweet. I did. I did. listen some of this worked on me just as a lonely kid who also uh wouldn't uh wasn't allowed to leave the house all the time but um there's an element but um but there's but he really only wins over that group of friends which in a typical movie would be his friends then the movie would investigate whether or not he can win over the whole school and so to your point june like he really only has his little crew of friends which is fine but like give us a greater story to track for his this is a you're telling me this is a high school coming of age story for jack you know what is he's 10 from 10 to 18 or 10 to 17 like this is a john hughes movie this is any of these coming of age movies but jack isn't coming of age at all no you know i mean no it's not it's not interested in any of those mile markers of getting older or any of that stuff.

1:01:12It really just is, I don't want to grow up.

1:01:16Jason Mantzoukas:My hot take, he should have been dead at the end. And they should have had a little - A gravestone. A gravestone or a little picture of him and put a little graduation cap on a gravestone. And they would have walked by it and they would have said, you know, he taught us so much about growing up. And then you could, but the minute he gets up there, because it does, Because I think the thing that the movie really fails to navigate and what we're all talking about is this idea that he's not learned. He's not really taking anything. He's just aging rapidly. But that's not changing his perspective until the end, which we've cut to seven years.

1:01:51Jason Mantzoukas:So we miss all that perspective change. And that to me is like, well, that's the movie. And that's why you should cut up the five chapters. And I'm in right now. I'm in CapCut. And I'm going to get this going. I'm going to do some previs. and it's really I love it's really cool that you're bringing chapters back to movies oh you know it's not just for books anymore no I mean I'm doing it like weapons I'm doing it like uh movies are getting longer so it's nice that you're you're breaking them up oh yeah oh I'm gonna release them this chapter you think I'm releasing it I was gonna put I was gonna put some title cards in between it oh yeah I'm gonna release it like Stephen King released the green mile uh just uh little little books um here we go everybody uh obviously we had an opinion about this movie but there are people out there with a different opinion it is now time for second opinions

1:02:43but everyone knows they're actually full of shit we need a second opinion someone that knows what they're talking about we need a second opinion

1:03:02We need a second Give me a second We need a second opinion

1:03:10Jason Mantzoukas:Thank you for that amazing theme song. Here's the thing. Yeah, there's a lot of reviews. 4 ,887 total reviews. Now this movie, just so you know, tested so well that they took it out of a fall slot. It was going to open in September and they put it in the middle of summer. People thought this was going to be a... This movie tested well? I have a lot of theories about testing. I will always say - This is an era where garbage like this would test well simply because of all the people. Zookeeper, the Kevin James movie, tested at 100%. I think that there's a trick in these movies. Hey, listen, I was at that test.

1:03:44I stand by it.

1:03:45Jason Mantzoukas:I do think that there's a trick in all these movies where if you end on a high note, there's something beautiful about that last scene that, in a way, if you cry, you rate the movie high. So I don't think that people are taking in the sum total of its parts. That's the only way I can say. that this convinced Disney to move this movie into summer competition where it flopped. This is not a summer movie. It's not. But 87 % are five-star reviews. Renee Rastall says, now just bear with me because the language here is tricky. She writes, kid is a big monster, but figures out he's just a normal person until he goes to school.

1:04:24Jason Mantzoukas:He is just seven years old, but he looked like 20-year-old. It is quite funny. He'd go into one of the kids' treehouse and has fun with them, but his friend, which is a grown-up, the treehouse falls down, and he sings, and everyone says, why is everyone falling on me? When he graduates, he's old man, and he looks like he's about 70. You will find it a very funny movie. Five stars. You know, I think that says it all. I think in order to find this movie funny, you have to be a non-native English speaker, I think. I mean, yes. I mean, this is what I think it is. Because I think that's the cues that the movie is giving you.

1:05:00Yes. You know, is funny Robin Williams movie, but it's anything but.

1:05:05Jason Mantzoukas:Right. If you watch it silently, you might think, oh, maybe this is funny. I mean, honestly, as I'm looking through this, I don't find any really great fun reviews because they all are like, this is an amazing, heartfelt movie that all kids should see. It shows how thankful we can be to have a life. And it's a gift. There's moderate swearing. And there is use of a middle finger and several uses of other items. Kids make other kids do things they don't want to do. There is rude humor and dirty magazines, and one kid buys a dirty magazine for others. And that is from Shan, Mike, and Kylie. Five stars.

1:05:35Jason Mantzoukas:Good. It's like, yeah, this is like Catholic review central. And the final one that I hate to read to you, Jason, but I will from Letterboxd from Audrey. She wrote this in 2025. I should have foreseen that a season of mental instability was brewing when I loudly wept through about one-third of Francis Ford Coppola's Jack. Oh, no. Oh, no. I gotta call my therapist. You know, June had to jet, but just Jason and I, I mean, I guess the resounding opinion would be, this is not even worth watching for fun. It's a slog. It's a saccharine slog. It's too long. It's, yes, exactly, you're right. It's treacly.

1:06:20It's not fun. There's no propulsive engine that's guiding you through it. It's two hours and it feels like two hours.

1:06:27Jason Mantzoukas:And I was wondering about this. And I know that if we go back through our catalog, you could listen to what was that? The Odd Life of Timothy Green, a movie that is similar. Right. But I know that you like that more than June 9th. But like, but all I will say is that works at least better conceptually. Well, it has a more. Okay, so I think that this movie, I wonder if this movie would have been markedly different if magic was the engine rather than medicine. Or science, you know. Right, yes, yes. If he didn't have a disease that I was trying to crack and figure out throughout, if he instead was magic.

1:07:08Right. And so I could free myself from trying to make sense of it. You know what I mean?

1:07:13Jason Mantzoukas:Make it about a latchkey kid who's like, I'm always home alone. I feel like an adult. And then he becomes an adult. And then, you know, or like the Paul Scheer story. Oh, I love that, man. But I do think that like, that's what it was missing. It was. Yes. And I think that that's the reason why the scenes aren't fun and the sequences aren't fun because there's no it's like if he was friends with these kids, then if he becomes an adult, then it's like, oh, my gosh, our good friend now can do all the things that we wanted to do, you know. Yeah, and there's something about Big in Big, and I know it's not fair to keep comparing it to Big because they are trying to do different things, but Big isn't about his mortality.

1:07:51Right. And the movie that we just watched is entirely about his mortality. Yeah. It's about him, his inevitable impending death. Right. Because he's aging so rapidly. that the whole movie is there. The parents are so scared. They're so nervous. They're so tentative. All of these things because they're afraid he's going to, like, die sooner than he will, which is very soon, you know?

1:08:20Jason Mantzoukas:By the way, you know, you said it's different than Big, which I agree with you. It is different than Big, but Tom Hanks was the first choice for this role because Francis Ford Coppola saw him in Big. Why would you even want to have that association? Can you imagine? I mean, nuts. That's so funny. It's like, why would you do that? Anyway, so yes, a resounding... I don't recommend it. We don't recommend it. However, we do recommend that you head on over to the How Did This Get Made store. We have some amazing new designs. I don't even think this one warrants a design unless we just wanted to make one shirt.

1:08:56Let's give another design to some other movie that we... Let's not... Yeah, let's punish movies that don't warrant... That we don't have... There's nothing that has happened in the movie or in our discussion that I want memorialized.

1:09:09Jason Mantzoukas:The only thing I would love is just I have Jack syndrome, and we do it in the lettering of Jack the movie. So adults could wear a Jack syndrome. Or it's just a picture of Jack, and it says, not a shooting star. Not special. Is that what June calls it? Yeah, like not a shooting star. We'll see if we'll do that. But you can head on over to our brand new merch store. Go to HDTGM. June and I are shooting these live multicam shows here in Los Angeles in the month of October. If you go to How Did This Get Made website, you can write us and get tickets. It's out here in Los Angeles. It'd be fun. Jason, anything that you want to promote?

1:09:43You know, I don't have anything really to promote that's mine necessarily, but I would love to plug a couple of things that I have nothing to do with, but I think are fantastic. Taskmaster Season 22 has just started. Richard Aowati is in the cast, and it is incredible already. Reacher season four, come on, forget about it.

1:10:06Jason Mantzoukas:I have not watched it yet, and I've heard that they've flipped the script on Reacher, and I'm excited to see how they've done it. I'm going to tell you this. It is absolutely hilarious. Oh, can't wait. But not as hilarious. Does he become a child? No, I wish. He doesn't become jacked, or he becomes reverse jacked? I wish Alan Richson could become jacked. I did see Motor City, which is the Alan Rich then movie where there's absolutely no dialogue. It's just a top to bottom revenge thriller that is so violent and so fun. And there's I'm going to say sub 15 lines of dialogue in the whole movie. It's great.

1:10:43But the the funniest movie I've seen this year that is going to be hard to beat is John Early's phenomenal movie. Maddie's Secret. Oh, I want to see this. absolutely mind-blowingly funny, and I cannot recommend it enough. Everybody needs to see Maddie's Secret. It is fantastic.

1:11:03Jason Mantzoukas:I love this. Now, by the way, if you want to talk to us more about Jack, give a correction or a mission from this episode, you can leave us a voicemail. We have a voicemail that works perfectly at speakpipe.com slash hdtgm, or you can write to us on our Discord at discord.gg slash hdtgm. Now, we also, Jason, you may not know about this. We have a how-did-this-get-made mini-league in this year's Vulture Movies Fantasy League. It is a fun—yeah, so basically what it is is like fantasy football but with movies. You pick what movies you think will make the most money based on the budget that you have.

1:11:33Jason Mantzoukas:So you can't just bank on all the big movies. You have to kind of put together an interesting mix. You can go to vulture.com slash HDTGM or just click on the link in today's episode notes. Remember, if you follow us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, please make sure you are subscribed to our feed and have automatic downloads turned on. It helps us and we appreciate that. And you can check out our Instagram page for some live video from our live shows. And that's at HDTGM. And lastly, I have to give a huge thanks to our crew behind the scenes. I'm talking about our producer, Scott Sonny, Molly Reynolds, and our engineer, Casey Holford, as well as our social media manager, Zoe Applebaum.

1:12:07Jason Mantzoukas:And we will forever be grateful to the one and only Averill Halley. That's all I got, people. We'll see you next week on Last Looks. Bye, Jason. Goodbye. Bye. Finding the music you love shouldn't be hard. That's why Pandora makes it easy to explore all your favorites and discover new artists and genres you'll love. Enjoy a personalized listening experience simply by selecting any song or album, and we'll make a station crafted just for you. Best of all, you can listen for free. Download Pandora on the Apple App Store or Google Play and start hearing the soundtrack to your life. Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie.

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