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How Did This Get Made? - Episode Summary
Episode Title
Reindeer Games w/ Howard Kremer (HDTGM Matinee)
Episode Description In this episode, the hosts Paul Scheer, June Diane Raphael, and Jason Mantzoukas are joined by guest Howard Kremer to explore the 2000 holiday crime-thriller "Reindeer Games." The discussion covers various aspects of the film, including bizarre character choices, awkward cinematography, and the notorious plot twists that define this so-called classic.
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Key Discussion Points
Overview of "Reindeer Games"
- Directed by: John Frankenheimer (last movie directed by him).
- Starring: Ben Affleck, Charlize Theron, Gary Sinise, and Ashton Kutcher.
- Release Date: February 25, 2000 (missed the holiday release).
Initial Reactions
- The film is characterized as a major disappointment, with all hosts expressing frustration over its quality.
- Paul describes it as the epitome of everything wrong with bad movies.
- Jason and June reflect on the absurdity of certain scenes and the lack of coherent storytelling.
Key Themes and Elements
- Awkward Kissing Scenes: The hosts critique the film's excessive open-mouthed kissing, describing it as unappealing and unrealistic.
- Character Development: Discussion about how the movie fails to make its characters likable, particularly Ben Affleck's portrayal.
- Plot Twists: The convoluted nature of the plot twists, including mistaken identities and double-crossing between characters.
- Symbolism: A humorous revelation that Ben Affleck's character, Rudy, is akin to Rudolph, and other characters allude to Christmas figures.
Memorable Quotes and Scenes
- Sex Scene: The hosts analyze an awkward sex scene, noting the uncomfortable camera angles.
- Peculiar Eating: Ben Affleck's character eats pecan pie in a bizarre manner, leading to discussions about character motivations.
- Addressing the Plan: The ludicrousness of their heist plan and the movie's overall execution were highlighted as major flaws.
Critique of Cinematography
- The hosts discuss the film's poor camera work, particularly the askew close-ups that create a sense of disorientation.
Conclusion of the Film
- The chaotic, nonsensical finale includes a heist gone wrong, leading to the deaths of several characters in indistinct Santa costumes.
- Ending Note: Paul humorously summarizes that the film ends with Ben Affleck giving away stolen money in an odd Robin Hood-esque manner, highlighting the absurdity of his character's journey.
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Key Takeaways
- Misguided Attempt at Action and Romance: "Reindeer Games" is recognized as a failed attempt to blend genres, resulting in a confusing and frustrating viewer experience.
- Cultural References: The film's failure to engage audiences through its character development or plot coherence is emphasized.
- Podcast Insight: The episode exemplifies the joy of dissecting bad films, where hosts share laughs and insights while critiquing the film in detail.
Final Thoughts While it's a difficult watch, the episode provides a comedic and entertaining breakdown of "Reindeer Games," underscoring the podcast's mission to celebrate and critique the worst of cinema in a humorous way.
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Additional Notes
- Merch and Promotions: The hosts promote upcoming shows and merchandise while engaging with the audience.
- Social Media and Interaction: Listeners are encouraged to join the conversation on Discord and submit their own "Last Looks" themes.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Ben Affleck, boobies, cowboy costumes, and a cameo by Ashton Kutcher. We saw Reindeer Games, so you know what that means.
0:24Hello, people of Earth, and welcome to our very special Christmas Day edition of How Did This Get Made. Happy holidays. I am Paul Scheer, joined as always by Jason Manzoukas. What's happening? And June Diane Raphael. How are you, June? Good. How are you, Paul? Very good. Today we have a very special guest. You know him from the wildly successful, the fantastically funny, who charted Howard Kramer. Please welcome Howard to the show. Welcome. Hey, guys. How are you? This is our, technically, this is our Christmas episode. So we are very excited to bring you, man, what a treat, Reindeer Games. the last John Frankenheimer movie.
1:05By the way, not a treat. Not a treat. This is a perfect Christmas movie for anyone. Did this come out or on the holidays? Oh, I'm sure of it, yeah. John Frankenheimer, just to give you an idea of what this guy directed, directed some great movies in the past. French Connection, right? Yeah, Iceman Cometh, Grand Prix, Manchurian Candidate, Seven Days in May and it all ended with this Ben Affleck movie with Charlize Theron Gary Sinise and Ashton Kutcher Oh I forgot about Ashton Kutcher Oh and Gary Sinise's hair And Donald Logue Oh guys by the way it came out February 25th It missed the Christmas mark So that means that this movie was so bad Normally they dump a movie like this at Christmas time.
2:01You'd be like, oh, just suck it up. We'll get Christmas money. No, they released it two months after. This is almost in March. You release a Christmas movie. That's appalling. This movie. It was done clearly by December. This movie sucked. This movie was awful. I hated watching this. This movie is everything that's bad about the movies that we watch. To me. I was like freaking out. I was so angry at how bad the movie was. I had, look, I had some issues with it. But, you know, look, I'm a fan of twists and turns. And I love some sexy acting.
2:42The first thing that comes to my mind about this movie is the sex scene that is pretty like, Charlize Theron and Ben Affleck have this, like, sex scene that is a little, like, graphic. Oh, yeah. In the sense of, like, what you're seeing. You don't normally see the part of the man that connects from the waist to the upper butt cheek. It's like a weird area. Minotaur looking. Yeah, you don't really see. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Minotaur looking. Yes, because there was a shot of him. You know what I'm talking about. You're describing it where you couldn't see his legs, but you did see sort of right above the ass.
3:21It's like butt and back. It didn't look like a full human. It looked minotaur. It looked very minotaur. It was very weird. That sex scene, because I fully was like, oh, they're going to have sex now. Whoa! And listen, I'm not going to complain because it was sexy. But then I had a real problem with, and maybe I'm just not having sex correctly, but does anybody in the room have so much sex in a hotel room or wherever that you're on the bed, you're off the bed, you're fucking on the floor, and then you fall asleep on the floor? Why not just get up and the bed's right there. Like, that's what they do.
3:57They fuck so much that they fall asleep on the floor next to the bed. I was like, there is a bed right there. The only thing in this room is a bed. It happened in Twilight, too. They fuck so hard they fall asleep on the floor. That's true. They are exhausted. They are too exhausted. There's also in this movie a lot of open-mouthed kissing that's very, like, disgusting. Like, it's like... Super wet kisses. Super wet, wide kisses that are not appealing. It's like just two wide mouths going at each other. I mean, we'll get into a spoilers section, but there is a Gary Sinise, and I won't say who the woman is he's kissing, a kiss that I was like, what the fuck is this?
4:41It's just nobody kisses like that. It's like kids who've seen their parents kiss, trying to kiss. Open mouth, right? That's how we do it. Is that what happened to you? I tried to French kiss my mom when I saw The Love Boat one time. No. Yeah. No. She got really freaked out. What? I thought that was it. I thought that's how you'd kill it. That's how adults do it? Like I saw it on TV and I was like, oh, I've been, my mom gave me a kiss to go to bed one time and I was like, ah. It was like my mom was like, whoa, whoa. What are you doing? She caught me way before I got close, but. That's huge. Hey man, this is a pretty startling revelation.
5:16Yeah, let's get into it. I didn't know you had this whole French kissing your mom thing going on. Yeah, man. I tried to kiss my mom like Gary Sinise. I gave her the full-blown Sinise. Also, I mean, I guess this is a dumb thing to pick on. But Ben Affleck and Shirley Theron, both very attractive people. I know movies are about attractive people and stuff. But I couldn't get a read on, are these supposed to be ugly people? Or are they supposed to be really attractive people? That's a really good point. Because a big part of the movie is that she's set up, we'll find out what her real intentions are later, but she's set up as a woman who's writing letters to prisoners.
5:56And she writes. And she's Charlize Theron. And she's Charlize Theron. And we learn a little bit more about her, that she's in this small town, and she's had a tough go of it. She does know she's pretty. If she just got to a coastal city, though. She does know she's pretty. She does know she's pretty. She's super model beautiful. Yeah. I mean, she is so stunning. But that's what the thing is. He says to her, why is such a good looking girl like you doing this shit? Is this what you do? Remember when they've woken up from their slumber on the floor? Yeah. He says, is this what you do? Why are you so beautiful?
6:22And she goes, well, when you're as beautiful as I am, the guys that want you only want to fuck you. They just want to get inside. They don't want to know what's inside you. They just want to get inside. Fucking control, alt, save. That is a good line. Save it. And Frankenheimer is in. I'm not the guy was a line that was in the movie about 30 times. Oh, yeah. Basically, this whole movie is Ben Affleck is in prison. He just steals cars. No big whoop. His prison mate is a guy who stabbed somebody who was harassing his girlfriend. And there is a fight that breaks out in jail. His prison partner is killed.
7:07and he's released. The jail sequence is 10 to 15 minutes long and is like an SNL sketch about jail. It is so stupid. It's actually really upsetting, too. Like, I don't know. I watched it and I felt sick. I felt really upset. What is really upsetting about it? Because the cockroaches were in the theater. Oh, Isaac Hayes. Disgusting. You know that when he says, there are monsters in the jail. Isaac Hayes. What was Isaac Hayes doing in this movie? I want to play the part that Harold just talked about. This is my favorite post-scene in the movie. Monsters in the Gelatin. So they're eating some, like, jello.
7:49What's wrong with you? Monsters. What a joke. It's just a rug, you said. Yeah, it's protein. It's good for you. Monsters. In the gelatin! All right, calm down. There are monsters in the gelatin! Fuck down! Monsters in the gelatin. Look at this shit. This starts a full-on prison riot because apparently the cooks, they haven't just had one monster in the gelatin, one roach. I guess everyone has tons of roaches in their holiday jello, and this starts a huge prison riot. What do you think that it was an unusual day? Like this is just a strange thing that happened? How many roaches must there have been?
8:35I don't know. Hundreds. Did they do it to start the riot? That's what I don't... Was it that elaborate of a plan? No, because at the end, when we hear the movie out, we're doubting how elaborate this plan could get, because it had so many moving parts. And Ben Affleck at the end of the movie, Ian says, how did you think this would work? Because at any point, something could have gone wrong. Because when you realize at the end of the movie what the plan has been all along, it's impossible to have been executed. Impossible. It just requires so much acting, so much to go right. Well, you know what?
9:10I feel like maybe it will be – Let's just lay it out. Well, yeah. It will probably be better and serve everybody better to understand how it plays out. So the monsters and gelatin happen. Ben Affleck's roommate, his prison roommate, gets killed. And now, like, Ben is all bummed. He's like, well, I'm getting released from jail tomorrow. My prison partner was going to get released too. He was going to go meet up with Charlize Theron. Maybe I'll take over for him. And he decides that he's going to take over the life of his killed prison partner just to get laid by this hot girl. Well, I do think he had some feelings for her just reading the letters and stuff.
9:46I don't think it was entirely about sex. He definitely did have some sort of attachment to her. You don't think it was entirely about sex? Not entirely? No, I don't. I don't either. No, I don't. And that's what they were counting on was that it was more than just sex. But he speaks his subtext so much in the movie that I just, whatever he says he was thinking, I just go with that. Well, that's the best part. He's sitting on the bus thinking about whether or not he should try to go after Charlize Theron. And he's like, don't do it, Nick. Don't do it. How about when they're in the department store and she brings over some clothes to him and then she walks away and he looks at himself in the mirror in a crowded department store.
10:26He goes, just get through the holidays. Rudy, just get through the holidays. Don't wreck her holidays. We'll tell her after. We'll tell her after. Like a fucking Superman villain. Like talking to himself in a mirror in a crowded store. By the way, this is the only movie that I can recall that employs both talking to himself in a mirror or a window. And also having voiceover narration too. Because there is also a voiceover narrative. That's me. like it's a lot of like it's a lot of like the camera going around so he's doing dual narration dual narration by one character was anybody else really uncomfortable at how askew the close ups were yes oh yeah every close up they would cut to was just like askew a little bit off and a little off well we were talking about this because claustrophobia yeah we were saying before we started taping that like this movie had taken to effect when this movie like you know in consideration when this movie was done so it was like 2000 and Howard's saying that it's like Quentin Tarantino.
11:26People were trying to emulate Tarantino, right? Tarantino had come along and now these older guys are trying to put a little Tarantino in their game. Yeah, and it felt like it was really trying, like the violence was a little bit more bloody. It was like trying to be this cool thing. So Ben Affleck takes over the life of his prison partner and he forages this false relationship with Charlize Theron. They're having a great time. They're having sex. They're falling asleep on the floor. They come home and Ben is attacked. Attacked by these burly thug dudes. I do want to talk about this. So he walks in the door and he gets immediately hit in the gut with a baseball bat.
12:09Goes down and at which point another guy pops out of the closet. Why was that guy hiding in the closet? Wait, there were three guys hiding. One guy, there was a guy in the bathroom, and there was a guy in the closet. How many people need it? Like, again, when you understand the plan of this, not necessarily to have three guys to attack Ben. And he recovers so easily from brutal beatings. He is brutally beaten over and over in this movie and never has a mark on him, barely. He has a bloody nose in the diner. That's it. But, I mean, I will say that he does limp around from getting those darts thrown into him.
12:47He gets about two darts. He has a tortured dart scene, which is also like a very Quentin Tarantino. Like, let's torture him. Let's do darts, man. Yeah, I'll do darts. And he gets like two darts in him. And he's like, oh, like limping around. Darts. Yeah. Pool darts. I mean, barroom darts. Maybe they've gotten like a quarter of an inch in your body. But that's it. Maybe. Right. He's like, oh. But so basically, we find out that Charlize has a bad brother. The bad brother wants him to rob a bank. No, casino. Casino, sorry. a casino because he worked in a casino, but he didn't actually work in a casino.
13:21The guy that he was prison mates worked in a casino. And then he finds out that. And he keeps trying to be like, when he realizes the guys want him because they think he's Nick, then they're going to say, Nick, help us rob the casino. He starts to say, I'm not Nick. It's not me. I'm impersonating him. And the guy's like, so you're impersonating a guy to fuck my sister? You think that's going to get you out of this? And then he has to be like. But what he said was, he goes, you're acting like you did all this so you could get down her chimney. Yeah. Oh, God. There's a lot of Santa. Christmassy wording.
13:56Yeah, that's right. And he does the Reindeer Games line, too, where he says, I read your letters. Don't play no reindeer games with me. You know what? I've never heard the expression Reindeer Games used. Just in the song. That's it. Okay, so I kept on asking Paul. I mean, I must have asked like every five minutes, like, is reindeer games a thing? Like, are reindeer games... And what would Paul say? He'd say yes. You actually said yes. I said, yeah, it's from the song, the Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer. Well, I knew that, but I never heard this term or expression. Don't mess around. Well, I don't think it has any other meaning other than the song.
14:35Just a bunch of reindeers playing around. Like, there's no other context for it. Oh, wait, there aren't specific reindeer games. You guys have egg on your face because I looked today and on Urban Dictionary, it came up. It goes, reindeer games refers to any fun activities which are enjoyed only by members of a clique, which is often purposely made obvious to anyone existing outside of said clique in order to make them feel inadequate and left out. So that would line up, though. Okay, so... But Ben Affleck has no click. He has no click. He's a man by himself. Yeah. By the way, so Ben Affleck...
15:14So he's Rudolph in this scenario? Well, his name is Rudy. What? What is happening? What is happening? Boom. Nailed it. Look at the symbolism. No way. The joke's on us. The joke is on us. What? What just happened? This movie just got interesting. That's the reveal. This is an amazing movie. Holy shit, my mind just imploded. Are you kidding? Rudolph. And do you know what his friend's name was? Oh, no. Nick. Nick. Nick. Man, I wonder if we can see. What was Gary Sinise's name? Gabriel. Gabriel. All right, so the angel Gabriel. What was Charlize Theron's name? Ashley, but her real name was... Blitzen.
16:12holy shit I wonder if dude that was the how we just got there was unbelievable I'm sure the audience was like 10 minutes ago like hey assholes during the courtship of Ben and Charlize when they're out you know she's buying them stuff because Ben kind of looks like a villain from a back to the future one like that's how he's dressed but she goes I get a 50 % off discount. She was so into that discount. She was crazy about it. She started laughing maniacally. She's like, 50 % off. But that's a huge discount. That's a pretty good discount. You're giving away the store at 50 % off. She was like drunk with power that she was going to go get 100 bucks off that coat.
16:57Do you think she got that coat 50 % off with her discount, that silver coat? Yeah. Because that was a crazy scene where she was, right after they got together and they were in the diner, she said, first he didn't say hello to her. And he didn't when he got out of the prison. And then he came back. And so then you cut to the diner and he's like, yeah, I'm sorry. I just got freaked out. I thought maybe you wouldn't like the way I looked. And she's like, yeah, I mean, I thought the same. I thought maybe you'd like see my coat. She's Charlize Theron and he just got out of prison for five years. I didn't think you'd think I was.
17:30By the way, that coat was pretty ugly. And that's the only way they could ugly her up and make her look pedestrian is put her in ugly winter parkas. It wasn't even that ugly. I mean, it was a silver coat. It wasn't like. They tried it. They give her a couple of things. She wears a baseball cap and sunglasses. That's how they ugly her down. She had a winter hat on. And then in the diner, the winter hat is off and her hair is perfectly styled, though. Can we talk about the second diner scene where he eats pecan pie? Oh, yeah. I found that disgusting. I found the choice he made in eating that pecan pie to eat it as if he was like a starving person who'd never eaten food, but like an animal consuming pie.
18:10Or I was like, is this a sexual thing? Like, what's going on with why he's eating this pie this way? He started chewing up the scenery literally. Yeah. He was just chewing on after that pie. It was such a weird shift in tone because up until then, it's all kind of sinister. Yeah. And then all of a sudden he starts saying, you know what? I want some hot chocolate. I want some goddamn hot chocolate. Some fucking Pecan Byes. Here's the funny thing about that, too, is by the time that moment happens, he has been out of jail. He has had sex. He has eaten with Charlize. They have bought a Christmas tree together.
18:45It's great, though. They bought a lot of cookies together. I mean, I feel like they got cookies. Oh, that was a great lie. Lots of cookies. When the guy goes, this guy's got a shitload of cookies. It's a shitload of cookies. Why did they buy so many Christmas cookies? Who fucking knows? This movie is dumb. This movie is gross. There's just a lot of grossness to this movie. Why did he? Right? But why was he eating it like it was his last meal when he clearly could have had that pecan pie and hot chocolate? He got plenty of time to get that. Right. Anyway, but. Well, that was supposed to be his first meal out of prison.
19:13But his first meal out of prison was Charlize, right? Oh, shit. Can we just play the, I just wanted, just for you guys to hear the, this is the only other clip we have. Here we go. Get him up here. No. No. No. Oh, fuck that. Nick doesn't do anything until Nick gets something for Nick. Got it? I want some hot chocolate. You want to hear about some job of mine? I want to see some goddamn hot chocolate. And some pecan fucking pie. Is he doing Bernie Mac? Is he doing a Bernie Mac? I feel like that was a crazy... I mean, you're right. That's where the movie goes... At that point, the movie's like, all right, now we're on this whole different track.
19:55It's like a fun romp now. Because basically what we have not told you is Gary Sinise is Charlize's brother, and he's a robber or a wannabe robber. And they are using Ben's knowledge, but not really his knowledge because his former, the person he's impersonating his knowledge on how to rob a casino. So he's being pulled into a casino heist. He is just a car guy. He just steals cars. So now he's told them numerous times, guys, listen, I'm not this guy. They refuse to listen to that. They keep on going, no, no, you're the guy, you're the guy. And he throws— Also, what Charlize says to him, she's like, I was going to tell you about this after New Year's.
20:35Like, the two of them, Charlize and Ben's characters, are so strangely respectful of the holidays. I didn't want to ruin your Christmas by telling you my sociopath brother wants you to do a casino heist. He throws his driver's license in the toilet. And it's real weird. after he flushes the toilet, he pats the toilet twice. Yes! Like, good toilet. You did what I wanted. You did what I thought. Oh, my God. I saw the exact same thing. So stupid. And by the way, he didn't have to do that, by the way. What a long-term con on his part. He's like, I'm going to flush my license in the toilet so I have no proof of identification for the rest of my life.
21:20I mean, well, he's like, I got to get laid. I got to get laid. I got to flush. I understood him at that point. Hitting that toilet. At that point. Like you knew him. Yeah, I felt like I got him at that point. Because he both was working towards getting laid and not getting fined out. And, you know, he wanted to tell the toilet, good job. Thanks, bro. Hey, look, I always pat the toilet just to make sure. People don't appreciate it. Good job. You ain't that good. You did a good job. Should we discuss when they go to scout the casino and they get him a disguise? Absolutely. Oh, yes. So they need to scout this casino, and they figure the best way to dress him up.
22:00By the way, this is the most obvious crew of robbers, right? Because even when they go get that pecan pie, it's like basically he is sitting amongst the most thuggest of thugs. It's like Danny Trejo, Clarence Williams, Donald Logue, Gary Sinise, and they're all dressed like diehard villains. And they don't look like, if you tell them, oh yeah, I saw a fucking bunch of robbers in here. They're all sitting around this table. with a guy with a bloody nose. And a supermodel. And a supermodel wearing sunglasses. They were at the robber's table. We had to actually put three tables together to get them all at that robber's table.
22:34How many? There's six of them? Put them at the robber's table. I feel like this is that era of movie making when it literally is like, okay, so we'll get a couple of good character actors to play the bad guys, and then we just need one of the angry Steppenwolf guys. So either Malkovich or Sinise. Like, Sinise is basically doing a Malkovich impression for the entirety of this movie. He is not threatening at all. He's acting threatening. He's slimmer and slighter and shorter than every single person in the movie. He is not at all scary. Well, how about when he throws those darts at him? And he reveals, and he's hitting darts perfectly around Ben's head, like kind of the way that they did it on The Tonight Show, like the Tomahawk thing.
23:18And then he goes, hey, I wasn't meaning to miss you. I've been trying to hit you. Yeah, I've been trying to hit you. So I'm just bad at this. But yeah, he's not an intimidating. No, because Ben Affleck cracks wise so many times when he should be threatened. Like he's about to be smashed in the face, but he just is flipping. And then, well, the other thing that I can't figure out is like they are murderers, but they've never committed a crime before. And he is just a truck driver. Are they murderers? I guess they do kill people eventually in the movie. They kill people. Like, without remorse. Well, but not before this thing.
23:55But we meet them. Well, she says, I don't know, maybe she's lying. Because here's the spoiler alert. She's playing a bunch of reindeer games. Yeah, is that Charlize Theron is not just double-crossing Ben Affleck. Because she is not Gary Sinise's sister. She is Gary Sinise's girlfriend. Right, which Ben Affleck finds out. But guess what? Another fucking twist. Double-double-cross. Because Nick, the prisoner who was Ben Affleck's best friend in prison, is not dead. He's alive. Charlize Theron is his girlfriend. What? And the whole thing has been a con on Ben Affleck. Yes. And Gary Sinise. And everybody.
24:37They were counting on. All those chances. There's a whole scene of dialogue at the end of the movie where this actor has to come out. He hasn't been seen in like an hour and a half. Yeah. And it has to explain the entirety of the movie to us. It was awful. Well, but by the way, how about the fact that now it makes me question, did she actually have that 50 % discount? Did she really work in that store? We don't know. She had the card. I don't know. This con goes deep. If anyone in the audience knows. Because 50 % sounds like an enormous discount to give employees. Even people who work in the corporate office don't get paid.
25:15When I worked at the Gap. She's put in some years. She has got tenure. No, by the way, because what she could do is just buy stuff and then sell it on her own and make some serious cash. I'm going to have a crazy discount. Maybe she sold those other guys their clothes. Their robber clothes. Or their Santa suits. Do you think she got the Santa suits from that? From the clothing store? From that clothing store, yeah. I don't know. I doubt it. So they go to case the joint. Oh, God. And they decide to. And by the way, so the entire time of the movie, Ben has said. I hope I didn't spoil the end too early in the podcast.
25:46I don't think you did. It's too hard to follow. Well, now we can kind of really uncover it from all angles. Let's unpack this. Because basically, Ben is telling Gary Sinise the entire time, I'm not this guy. I'm not this guy. Now, by the plan of this movie, Gary Sinise knows that he's not this guy, right? No. No? Oh. Gary Sinise is also being conned. Yeah. So Gary Sinise does not know that he's not, that Gary Sinise has no way of knowing that a guy named Rudy was reading those letters. Yeah. Gary Sinise just knows that. He's Nick. Gary Sinise needs to believe he's Nick. Even though everything is going against him at every point.
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26:30And even when, at the point in the movie where he realizes this isn't Nick, he still says, where's the powwow safe? Which is something that he invented. Yes. Right? Well, no. I think you find out later that it was mentioned in the letters. It was mentioned in the letters. Ah. All right. There's a part where Gary Sinise has tried to run Ben Affleck over it with the car in the snow. And then she reaches over to pull the wheel. But why would they do any of that if it doesn't make sense when you go back over it? I think she's trying to sell the scam. She knew. I believe that if Nick had not killed Gary Sinise, then, I'm sorry, if Rudy had not killed Gary Sinise.
27:18But Rudy didn't kill Gary Sinise. Charlize kills Gary Sinise. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Charlize kills Gary Sinise when it all comes next to the truck at the end. Yeah, she shoots Gary Sinise in the head. Right, right, right. I'm sorry. Right. But he had no way of knowing, though. You guys. Wait. Hey, guys. Let her figure this out. I'm really caught up in a reindeer game right now. I'm really lost in a reindeer game. All right. Unravel it. Unravel it. Even the screenwriters didn't bother to figure this out. So your question is, did Gary Sinise know that Rudy was not Nick? No. That's what you guys are saying.
28:00I'm saying no to that. You're saying. I'm saying that Gary believed that Nick was Nick. He believed. Yes. That's what we're all saying. Okay. So we're all saying that. All right. Okay. Sorry. All right. But now. That was amazing. Sorry, you guys. I got really lost. Still better than the movie. Hearing you describe. I'm still trying to figure out the parental logic of sleepaway camp. it has been broken down online you can check out our message boards the movie or the movie alright so let's get so they go to Case This Casino they decide to dress Ben up in a like a cowboy like a comical cowboy outfit like almost like a foghorn leghorn had formal wear this would be what he would be wearing like when oh fuck sorry I just killed your whole podcast.
28:59No, don't worry. Now, when Norm Macdonald plays Burt Reynolds. Yes, that's exactly what he looks like. That's perfect. Big old cowboy hat, like crazy mustache, bolo tie. By the way, this casino is so low rent. Oh, God, it's terrible. And what is Dennis Farina doing? I mean, poor Dennis Farina. He literally keeps having, he runs the casino and he keeps having the line like, I shouldn't have left Vegas. You know, because he's working in this podunk. Why did he make it? He says to these, he's having a meeting with these two Native American men. It's a Tomahawk casino. And he goes, hey, you guys need to do some sort of rain dance and get it to stop snowing so I can do some business.
29:43And then the guys leave angered. And he's like, hey, guys, come back. We got prime rib at the thing. Like, it was like, wait, wait, wait. He just insulted these people, their religion, everything. And you're like, come on. Come on, guys. I shouldn't have left Vegas. And I felt like every time he was saying that, he was like, I shouldn't be in this movie. I feel like everyone did this movie. I mean, Charlize Theron publicly came out and said, this is a very, very bad movie. This is the worst of my movies. I only did it because John Frankenheimer did it. And I was kidding myself to do it. So I feel like everyone probably got off on that.
30:16They're like, oh, John Frankenheimer is directing it. I agree with that. If you told me John Frankenheimer was directing a movie in that era, I would have been like, awesome. I'm into that. The only person who was not able to cut it was Vin Diesel, who was originally cast in an unspecified role. But he made so many demands regarding his character that the director, John Frankenheimer, fired him before production started. I bet you it was the Donald Logue character. That's my gut. Yeah. Or maybe like a combination of those guys. They were all Vin Diesel. They couldn't get Vin Diesel, so they broke the whole up.
30:49They had to split it up. Yeah. I don't want to get lost in a twist again. But so, it's happening again. But if Nick, so if Nick. Original Nick? Original OG Nick knew that Rudy, he must have been prepping Rudy in prison this whole time. Yes, right. And reading those letters and all that stuff. Right. Why wouldn't he tell him more information about that casino? Like what? Like that it had like just more info. It seemed like Rudy Nick, the only thing he really knew was the powwow safe. He didn't know anything else about the casino. Good point. That is a good point. It is an unanswered point. To what end?
31:33Well, to me, the whole movie, all he needs is for them to rob the casino. Yeah, but he's prepping Rudy to know how to do that. But he's not because basically at the end when Ben says to Gary Sines, He's like, wait a second. If I died at any point, could you still have done this? And Gary Sinise is like, yeah, we could have. He doesn't say it to Gary Sinise. He says it to Living Nick. Oh, yeah, right. He says it to Living Nick. He's like, this is so crazy. There's so many moving parts to this. It couldn't have fallen apart in any way. And he was like, yeah, it couldn't have fallen apart. Oh, he's like, how did you know I would go with her?
32:06What if I had just gotten on the bus and left? And he's like, if you had, she would have just convinced Gary Sinise to do it without you. Right. Like, they would have done it anyway. So you didn't even really need the whole protagonist of the movie to be in it. Nope. No. You were ancillary. And by the way, I would also argue this is one of the first movies where none of the characters are likable. Like, Ben Affleck, I mean, he's not a likable guy because he goes from being like a very put upon. Like, he's like, yeah, I just, you know, I robbed cars and got the bum deal. And then he's like a dick.
32:35And he's not like he's not. He then, you know, he assumes the life of somebody else. He's feeding toilets. She's raw-dogging Charlize Theron while she thinks he's some other guy. They're all evil people. None of them is redeeming. But she doesn't really, Jason. What? She doesn't really think he's an other guy. Oh, right, right, right. She knows. But he's a bad person because he thinks she's a... Absolutely. I'm just saying. But let's talk about... Real OG Nick really is very comfortable farming his girlfriend out to get plowed by everybody. By two different men. Maybe that's what he's really into.
33:09Maybe that's just to see that. Just to set up his girlfriend. That's the biggest reindeer game of them all. All right. So they send him in Burt Reynolds style to this casino. And now, meanwhile, you think, okay, well, this is a chance for Ben to case the casino. No, no, no. All the thug guys also come in fully thugged out. They're not in any sort of costumes. Again, they look like robbers and thugs. They're wearing their one outfits that they have. And then what do they see? Well, oh, he sees this guy across the casino. He kind of looks like him. He's got a weird mustache and a goatee, too. Oh, who is it?
33:41Ashton Kutcher. What? Ashton Kutcher. And does Ashton Kutcher have any lines in this movie? He's got two. Two lines in the bathroom. Yeah, which in the director's cut are edited out. Really? Yes. In the director's cut? The director's cut, they edit out. I only can imagine that Ashton Kutcher owed something to the Weinstein Company. They're like, you have to be in this movie. And he was like, okay, I'll do it. Is he a star in 2000? Yeah, that 70s show has been on. Oh, yeah. He's a TV star. Because I was like, maybe he wasn't big now. That's not a part that you take. I don't think, how huge could he have been by then?
34:18Not that big, I don't think. I'm going to look right now. I'm guessing he wasn't that big. I just assumed this was like one of his early roles. Me too. Really? I thought it was sort of like. Like Kevin Herman in the Blues Brothers. All right, because I thought it was much more. That was a good poll. I thought it was much more like, look at this. Look at who this character is. I don't think he was doing movies then. Okay, we'll see. I'm going to tell you right now. I'm looking at it as I have to be. Okay, in 2000, he had already done Dude, Where's My Car? No! Yep, and he was on Just Shoot Me. And then, yeah, so he, I mean, he had done, he was an actor.
34:54Wait, he was the star of Dude, Where's My Car? Yeah. Oh, so this makes no sense. Wait, did that come out in 2000 or shot in 2000? It came out in 2000. So I guess, you know, so he was the lead in the movie. So at that point, he also said, oh, I'll take this one-line part. I mean, he was a star. This came out in Feb. That probably came out in the summer. All right, yeah. And maybe this had been shot years earlier. Right. Maybe this sat around. All right, so you guys are predicting that this is something that he didn't. All right. I mean, we can just ask Kutch. We'll get Kutch on the phone. We can dial up the Kutch phone.
35:32Because, by the way, that 70s show started in 1998. So he had been on that 70s show for a couple of years. Okay, then he should not be in a role that has less than five lines. But it's a Frankenheimer. That's probably how they got him. Yeah, it's like, you want to come in and do a Frankenheimer? So basically Ben just goes, take this coat. Here's 100 bucks. And he's like, all right. And then he puts it on and then he just runs around and he goes, ah, he gave me$100. That's basically all of the Kutch's lines. And teenage girls went crazy. In my mind, I feel like the wine scenes were like, this kid's hot.
36:03Girls love him. Let's put him in this Frankenheimer movie. This movie will make a lot of money. Here's my bigger question. The scene after this, when Charlize and Ben run away into a bank of snow, and they try to escape crazy Gary Sinise, Charlize Theron falls into a frozen lake. One of the best shots in the movie. Okay. And the heat. It's amazing. And then Ben Affleck jumps in after her. Now they swim away from the hole that they fell into. Well, that happens to people when they fall through the ice, is that they cannot find the hole they fell through. That is true. The current might drag them or they can't see.
36:44Is there a big... Okay, because... All right. No, I'm glad to hear this because it looked so bright. And it looked from where we were standing with them, the shot we were on with them, that you could see that other hole so clearly. Yeah, that's a huge thing. That is a real... I didn't know about this. I remember this from as a kid growing up. You can't see the hole in the hole. up playing hockey on frozen ponds and lakes. But also, when you were growing up, clowns would chase you onto that ice and knock you into the... Guys, the clowns. Let's not fucking forget the clowns. I gotta ask someone.
37:14Actually, you've been validated on one of the many episodes. A lot of people came to your defense. Oh, really? Oh, good. Oh, thank God. Alright. Thank you, people. But I remember there was the whole threat was that you would fall through the ice and that you would not be... Because of how... You get so disoriented that it's very easy to get back up and you're stuck there and you don't know where the hole is that you came out of. That's terrifying. So kids would die underwater not because they couldn't find that little hole they came through. Oh, wow. I'm so glad to know this. So this part of the movie is 100 % factual, ready to go.
37:46Luckily, they did not lose their machine gun and they were able to shoot through that ice. Yeah, is that factual? That's what I was wondering. Would a shotgun fire underwater? I don't know. Yeah, it was a full-on machine gun. It wasn't even like a pump action. It was like, Like, they were able to get through there. One of the most heartbreaking moments is right after, though, when this little man, this little local yokel. He's fishing on the ice. He's ice fishing. Kind of like a grumpy old man. He was so sweet. And that actor, I thought he was one of the best actors in the movie. He says so sincerely, is everything okay, you guys?
38:21And then realizes that he's dealing with murderous sociopaths. Because they're all carrying guns. Yeah. Sure. He starts to run away. And do you think he died in that house? Okay. Oh, no, he definitely died because it's on the newscast. It's the newscast. Because later they go into a room and the newscast in the background is saying, the strange death of a local man on the river of this is still unsolved. But the police suspect foul play. Oh, do they suspect foul play? Is that because his little ice house was shot up by a machine gun? And by the way, suspect foul play. This guy must have been some serious shit.
38:58But these guys who are not robbers, because they've never robbed anything before, they're just truck drivers of the dream to rob. Who live out of their truck. They live out of a truck that is like the Knight Rider truck. Yes! It's like full decked out, like Motor City truck. Yeah, he... But, oh my gosh. This movie sucked. I got so angry. So the scene where Gary Sinise is throwing Darth Van Affleck, are they in the rec room of that hotel? Aren't they in the truck? All I know is that - No, they're not in the truck. They're in the truck. No, no, no. No, no, no. Jason, they're not in the truck. Because there's - A pinball machine.
39:37Pinball machines around. In the truck. Oh, that's not in the truck. No, it's like a shitty motel with cinder block walls. Yes. Yeah. And all the rooms have cinder block walls. Yeah. By the way, you guys will be happy to know that - I guess so, but I'm pretty sure that took place in the truck. by the way wherever it took place there was a big fog machine everywhere in that hotel was foggy it was like everything was defrosting by the way you'll be happy to know that Ron Perkins the actor who was killed in the ice house he's alive and kicking he was just on The Mentalist and he was on Veep and he does he had a very big part on House MD so you can check out what part?
40:11he is he is Dr. Ron Simpson oh alright but he's in a few of John Frankenheimer's movies but yeah Everything in that hotel looked like everything was steamy at all times. But my favorite line in the hotel was Ben escapes from the hotel in a futile escape plan because he doesn't really get anywhere when he escapes. And he comes back and he's trying to break back into his hotel room. And he's like, I can hotwire cars. I can hotwire hotel. That's what he says. I can hotwire cars. And all he's doing, he has somehow found a knife. How did he get a hold of that knife? I don't know. All he's doing to hotwire the door handle is touching the knife to the electronic component of the door handle.
40:54Just like tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, green light I'm in. There was no wires. There was nothing. It was just touching a metal knife. That's how it worked. Metal to metal, Jason. When he does escape that hotel for that feudal escape plan, which I don't even understand why he escaped. And then he tries to get back in. It's like you were loose. Like, keep running. Just keep on running. And by the way, everybody, like those four robbers are everywhere in that hotel. Every which way that he goes, there's another one of the bad guys. Like, hey, I'm down by the vending machine. Hey, I'm out reading my magazine.
41:31Hey, I'm over here in the pool. Like, they are all over the place. Yeah, one guy finds leftovers outside someone's garage. Food. These are disgusting robbers. That's a disgusting trait to look through people's used food and eat it. That just shows you, though, how desperate these guys are. But Ben got the one up on them because he was able to order a lot of pay-per-view. And these robbers did not want to pay for their pay-per-view. Cleared out the minibar, too. Yeah. Another egregious tone shift where you're scared for this guy's life, and then all of a sudden he's just dicking around in the toothless villains.
42:07It was a$1 ,200. $1 ,200. It was a$1 ,200 bill. No, that much? It was a huge bill. It was a huge, like, I'll print it out on an old computer printer. Like, you charge us all this money on pay-per-view? Yeah, you'd be like, one punch, that's for the pay-per-view. Another punch, that's for the minibar. It was so, like, Abbott and Costello. Oh, my God. And then, so now we get to the big heist. Things are happening. It's exciting. They're finally going to rob this place. and man alive. To get you to this final scene, everything goes haywire. They all dress as Santa. By the way, the big reveal is they're going to rob the casino dressed as Santa's.
42:49It's Christmas Eve. Because it's Christmas Eve and then they reveal the suits like, we got a plan, man. And they open up a closet full of neatly hung Santa suits. In the truck. In the truck. Right, and if you double back, the whole reason. That was in that hotel. The reason he dressed. In the truck. What? No, guys. We'll find out. The reason that they dressed him as a cowboy earlier is because they said, if you go in there regular now, they'll recognize you when the heist goes down. Yes. No, no, no. They were going to recognize him from when he used to work there. As Nick. They were like, if you walk in now, they're going to recognize you as Nick.
43:25So he goes, that's why I need a disguise. And then they were like, it's either cowboy or ballerina. By the way, why would it be such a big deal if Nick came in and just the old place he worked there, he wasn't fired for stealing. He could have just said, hey, I'm here to visit. What's up? Yeah, I'm the guy with the problem stealing cars. And it doesn't matter anyway. He goes in as the cowboy. Dennis Farina, who runs the museum, the casino, says, hey, how'd you hear about us? How'd you hear about the casino? And he's just like, whatever, whatever. And then the bad guys are like, you were talking to the guy.
43:54Did you tip him off? A huge part of the movie was contingent on them thinking that he had said something to Dennis Farina, which wasn't true at all. The whole movie is based on lies that no one has enough information. And are low stakes. Very low stakes lies. Very low stakes considering they didn't need Ben Affleck at all. Yes. And by the way. If the plan is walk in and shoot the place up, guess who you don't need for that? Ben Affleck. By the way, can I just bring out the larger flaw of this plan? The casino is not making any money. It is losing money. It is a not profitable casino. We're going to rob it on Christmas Eve.
44:37A dead night, by the way. A dead night. So they're basically. Usually it's like, usually heist movies are like, on this particular night, there happens to be three times as much money in the vaults because of Betty, blah, blah, like Ocean's 11 or whatever. It's like a fight night. There's something. This literally would be the night when there is the least amount of money in the least successful casino. The shittiest casino on the shittiest night of the year. We are standing to make hundreds of dollars tonight. It was. But yet, when they get in the back room, tons of money. I guess casinos just keep it there just in case they have a rush.
45:11Just wrapped up in perfectly stacked bills. I also love that when they arrive at the casino, they cut to Dennis Farino, who's just watching the security cams. Yeah. Just watching people come in. And he's going, ah, that Santa's kicking your security guy's asses. I'm not hearing you guys ask. Dennis Frieda does not freak out when they're a full-on fight where they flip tables over. It happens in the main floor of his casino. He's like, I freaked out on my last movie. I don't need to do it again. Hey, guys, just put in Midnight Run. You'll see what I can do. Anyway.
45:42But then somehow Ben needs a weapon. They give him a weapon that has liquor in it. It's a squirt gun. They give him a squirt gun, and then they pass around a bottle of rum later, which he puts in the squirt gun. Yeah, so he's like, that's a comic relief moment. Throughout the whole time, he can give himself a little squirt of rum. But it'll come in handy. Comes in really handy because when Ben is tied up against the wall, when he is stuck in this one moment, he's going to get killed. The guy's like, I'm going to kill you. But first, I'm going to light a smoke. Now, I didn't see this twist coming.
46:14I didn't think this squirt got. You didn't? I did not think this squirt. I mean, in the moment I did, but I didn't see it leading up. The guy's like, before I'm going to kill you, let me take out my cigarette and my Zippo lighter. And he goes to light a cigarette. But Ben, very quick on the draw, shoots some quick rum at him and lights this guy on fire in the most Hollywood I'm on fire. Like special effects are amazing. It's like this guy goes up in flames like a fire star. Three squirts from his squirt gun engulfs the man in like insane flame. By the way, when you say squirt, we should be clear.
46:54It's like such a tiny, small stream. There's no... Yeah. We should work that out. Like, see what would really happen if someone was smoking. We should MythBuster this? Yeah, MythBuster it. You think we should MythBuster this? All right, Art. I like that. Get my beret. I've got the beard. You get the beret. Let's go. I bet you someone online, if one of our fans wants to make a YouTube video, I don't think you'll light yourself on fire. I don't think we should advocate this. All you'll do is put out the cigarette. You'll just put out the cigarette. You'll put out the rum. Also, I will say that in this heist, there are more point-blank misses of any movie ever.
47:31Because there's only like six characters, so they can't kill each other that much. They have to just miss each other nonstop for the entire ending, and they get a little bit. I don't even, this even goes to show you that it's not even a fun movie, because you don't even remember how any of these guys die. I don't remember how Trejo dies. I don't remember how Donald... Well, you know, everybody gets shot. Well, the problem is that everybody dies in Santa suits, so you can't tell who's being killed. Yes, that is a problem. So at the end of the movie, everybody's indistinguishable from each other, except for Ben Affleck.
47:59And so you have a lot of trouble figuring out who's who. Like the guys, when they open up the vault room, one of the Santas gets shot with a shotgun and flies backwards and dies. I'm not sure who that was. Maybe Danny Trejo. Or Donald Logue. Not sure. You don't know. And that's what it's like. Like, you're not tied to any of these deaths because I don't fucking get it. Like, who was that? Why did that just happen? So if you, any movies where the achievement is that you can't tell the difference between Danny Trejo and Donald Luke, that's a pretty good accomplishment. Well, but that's a big part of, well, I thought it was going to be a huge part of the ending when Ben Affleck said, when they say to Ben Affleck that five Santas came into the casino.
48:40Oh, yeah. So five Santas need to be dead. Yeah. But there weren't five Santas dead there. No. Well, what you think, what I thought was going to happen was that Ben Affleck was going to, once OG Nick got killed. He was going to put the Santa suit on him. Ben Affleck should have put his Santa suit on OG Nick and killed him because then Ben Affleck can walk away unscathed. Right? But by the way, they keep on saying that they blow up. But at the end of the movie, they blow up everybody anyway. They're all on fire. They don't need to put the Santa suits on anyone. They're all burnt to a crest. I don't disagree.
49:18Wait, am I to believe that at the end of this movie, he gives all of the money away in people's mailboxes and then goes to his own family's dinner? He walks home in the Santa suit. The movie could have been over so way before that. Oh, yeah. But they took the time to show you him going to his holiday to watch the ballgame with his dad. That was his whole dream. He's still bloodied and in the Santa suit. He's in a bloody Santa suit, and he's at home at the head of his kitchen table with his convict. The big smile on his face in his dirty Santa suit. And his last line is, I know what the holidays mean now.
49:55Like, he knows. Learned a lesson. Well, as you pointed out, some mailboxes got two chunks of change. Like, he would take all their money, and sometimes he would put, like, one stack of bills, and sometimes it's two. So people should know, he walks away with the stolen money. Yes. Right. And now in my mind, I'm like, hey, return that money to the casino because that tribe was struggling. You know, return that money. A lot of casino workers were killed. But instead, instead, he Robin Hoods it and he puts it in just people's mailboxes. He walks down the street. Because he's a good guy. What he should have done.
50:31They finally make him likable in the last scene. But that wasn't likable. What he should have done, he should have started a fund for all of the families of the casino workers who were killed in that shootout. He should have started And taking care of them I think he should have just Either left the money there And called the police To the scene of the But then it's evidence Jason They can't do anything with it Won't evidence get returned To the casino? I don't know I don't know about that We should get into this With the money He should have made Those design changes That he was trying to convince them To place on the casino He should take over the casino Can I Did anyone get catch the real twist ending of the movie.
51:12So he gets home to his parents' house, and the entire thing was orchestrated by his dad to get him home for Christmas. So his dad set up his prison roommate to fake his dad. It was a long-term family con to get him home for Christmas. That's all it was. It's a movie about family. It makes sense. Well played, Rudolph's dad. Rudolph's dad, whose name is Santa. Oh, my gosh. I still can't believe he's Rudolph. The reason why he was called Nick was because that was the whole theme of the movie. Do you believe it's Nick? Do you believe in Saint Nick? Yeah. Hey, can we talk about he dispatches Charlize Theron.
51:55She's on the hood of the car, and she goes over the cliff. Yes. And now it's time to get rid of the real villain, her brother. And it's just the same exact thing. Disney just sends him over the cliff. Same two deaths right in a row. Ah, fuck it. We don't care. We just do it again. Let's do it exactly. Oh, but no, the difference is, the first thing, she went over the cliff on the hood of a car. And then the next thing, it's an 18-wheeler that goes over the cliff. Oh, it's a big car. So it is basically completely different. Okay. So shame on you. I did love that. I need a different license to push those up.
52:30I did like his one line. You have to be able to double clutch. Wait, what did he go? What did he say? Wow, man, I'm going to mess up the line. but I did like it. It was like, one first rule, never trust a... Oh, yeah. Never put a car thief behind the wheel. Yeah, that was it. And I was able to just reverse into the brother or reverse into the... Into OG Nick. OG Nick. Get him and drive her off the cliff. Oh, it was an anticlimactic ending. Just seeing Cliff fall off a thing exploding. It's like, eh, right. Yeah. The, is there any... Well, obviously we had an opinion about this movie But it's time to hear some second opinions.
53:11These are reviews cold from Amazon.com. Five-star reviews. This is - Five-star? Five-star reviews. So here, you can agree or disagree with this. Are these critics or just pedestrians? These are pedestrians. These are what America is thinking. Josh Miller says, Reindeer Games works on so many levels as an action film, it's damn near flawless. in fact I think it is flawless except for the lame brain twist that was going to thrown in at the end but that didn't ruin it so I stick to my five stars I'm going to have to start trusting Elmore Leonard a lot more because his mini review on the cover sums up everything well Reindeer Games rocks oh really?
53:56he's more accurate than Stephen King has been about certain movies so that's a guy who's trusting author mini-reviews on a DVD box cover. That's what makes you start liking Elmore Leonard. Well, this one is a good one, too. Armando Mesa writes, Even viewers who are not familiar with the previous works of Affleck, Theron, or Sinise will surely change any misconceptions about their underrated acting abilities. Because I can't figure out how Theron and Affleck turn on the waterworks. Is it method acting or real emotions? It's incredibly believable. Do they even cry? I don't remember them crying. Gary Sinise can play either good or bad flawlessly.
54:42If he's a good character, he's intense. If he's a bad one, he's super intense. He turns it up. The only drawback. This is it. The only drawback. This is a five-star review. This is the kind of movie where the twist in the story will be fresh in your mind for the next three days. And then afterwards, you're going to want to analyze the whole thing and remember it afterwards. So that is the drawback. Thinking is the drawback on this movie. Right. And then, and this one, I just, I pulled these two. I don't, this one is, this one I wouldn't normally read, but it's so, it's a five-star review. And I think it's funny.
55:20Kilmari writes, Sinise is terrific as the deranged wannabe thief once he get past his hideous reptilian looks. how many how many how many camera lenses did they go through wait what is the presumption there that his looks are so bad that he would break camera lens many but he is terrific he is terrific he is a five star review his reptilian looks he does look a little like a character like from V and then somebody else just compares Affleck to... Affleck is emerging as a star who possesses a commanding scream presence only afforded by older, more distinguished actors such as Sean Connery and Ed Harris.
56:10Theron proves to be the theatrical equal of Marlena Datrick. So those are some five-star reviews. Is there anything that we missed? Anything that anyone had written down that we didn't talk about? Nobody else may buy into this one, but I thought that Nick, the OG Nick, he reminded me of Todd Berry. Yeah. You're kind of a little bit of Todd Berry in him. I'll take that. I'd actually prefer to see that character played by Todd Berry. Yeah, I would have been good at it because he's like a mastermind. Yeah, I would have liked to see it because I think Todd's energy, his look is similar, but Todd's energy would have nailed that part.
56:53He would have brought that wrestler magic to. That guy, I looked that because I was like, who is that guy? Yeah. And he's been in like every TV show. He's been in everything, but he has never had like a big thing. Well, this could have been it. Anybody else? Anybody else anything before we wrap it up? Just if the little drummer boy is constantly getting sung by. Oh, yeah. The Christmas music made me sick in this movie. They ruined the Christmas music. And then there's like sort of upbeat Christmas chamber music at the end. which didn't match any part of the movie at all. It was like a Die Hard thing.
57:31It was like, oh yeah, Die Hard. I think it was just mashing together. They also fired their composer in the middle of this movie so half of the music is done by Akiva. I'll find out. Two different composers like James Goldsmith. You know they had that February 25th deadline. Guys, you've got to get this Christmas movie out by February 25th. I thought the pool scene with Charlize and Gary Sinise was very gross. It's disgusting. Where they are revealed to be lovers. She takes her top off. Great tits on Charlize Theron. I'll say that. By the way, she's making it quite a few times in this movie. That makeout they share is disgusto.
58:09I thought that was gross. It's disgusting. Everything is gross in this movie. I mean, makeout-wise. I was very grossed out by it. I was so intrigued by that hotel, too, because it looked like a Motel 6, but then it had this weird indoor pool area. Yeah, it's like, why do they have that pool? That's too nice. Yeah, that pool is... By the way, also, when Ben finds out that Charlize and Gary Sneeze are fake dating, the way he finds out about it is he hears Charlize yelling, like, hey, get your hands off me! Get your fucking hands off me! And then he goes in, and then he finds out, oh, they're going out.
58:41But she's drinking out of a wine glass, and it looked like they were having a romantic interlude. So it didn't look like they were in the middle of a fight. It seemed like they were just like, they were drinking wine. They were clearly over it. Right. Relaxing. Yeah, they were relaxing. There was some argument. I don't even remember who took place, but there was a point where he goes, you said he was stabbed. He took a shiv. Oh, that's, I said he died. That's how it all becomes revealed. Who is it? It's Sinise. She says that to Affleck. Right. And then he's like, Affleck's like, wait, how do you know he took a shiv?
59:16I never told you that. And then they just keep repeating that. They keep repeating it back and forth because that's letting Gary Sinise know that he's being double-crossed. And he gets super confused, and that's when she shoots him in the head. Right. And she goes, oh, man. Okay. And then she becomes the true cold-hearted bitch that we all knew she was. Yeah, women. Don't trust women, even though she hates men. She's from South Africa. Man, oh, man. Yes, go. Please, please. In the beginning when he's talking to his cellmate in the cell, his cellmate's like reading the letters from Charlize Theron and Ben Affleck is exercising.
59:51Doing push-ups. He's doing push-ups and his wife beat her. And then he turns over and he starts doing like sit-ups. But he's just in full conversation as he's doing these weird – it just seems like where does he even get the breath to have that conversation? By the way, I kept on thinking like he must have made that, regretted that choice immediately. Like as he's like take 17. Fuck. Like ugh. Because he has to really do it in those scenes. By the way, that's also a great part of the movie where there should be some witty repartee between these two prison inmates. Nope. Nothing. None. Very, very stale.
1:00:23Even though Ben Affleck has told us in voiceover, and that's my best friend, Nick. Yeah. It's ludicrous. And there's a moment even in the beginning where he's like, hey, maybe I should fuck this girl that you want to go fuck. Yeah, that was weird. And he was like, and then the guy. It was also a really big coincidence that they were being let out on the same day. Yeah, two cellmates. Oh, because originally I remember thinking like, oh, they must be in for the same crime. They must have been partners. And they weren't. They were just cellmates. No, one guy, that guy killed. Original G stabbed somebody.
1:00:54Yeah. Ben Affleck just stole some cars. No big deal. But that's the way life treats them. Maybe the ward was like, we'll put you two guys together because you get out on the same day so there won't be any conflicts in your cell. Well, you know, yeah. Right. It's all about rooms. Nobody would be jealous. There won't be any hidden resentment. Well, because it's so tough to get new roommates in there, too. Hey, did you see Ron Jeremy's in the credits as prisoner number one? I didn't see him in there. I didn't see him in there. Whoa, I did not see him in there either. I didn't see him. Oh, no, his name is Ron Hyatt, prisoner number one is what it says.
1:01:22Oh, but it is him, yeah. Ron Hyatt is Ron Jeremy. That's his AKA. Yeah, yeah. What? Did not know that. Wow. Hey, I don't know if you guys, you know the movie Bandits came out around the same time with Bruce Willis. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, no. That's the one where he's having cancer, him and, oh, man, the guy from Billy Bob Thornton. So I'm not that familiar with this movie, but this kept reminding me of it because it's just that same era and kind of these sprawling crime trips. Directed by Barry Levinson, too, like an older director trying to get in on this new... Yeah, but I think that one's terrible, too.
1:02:03I'm not sure if it's as bad as this. All right, we'll have you back for that then. Stay tuned for Bandits, 2001's Bandits. Opening weekend,$13 million,$80 million budget. Wow. This movie was$40 million, and it made$30 million worldwide. All said and done. Wow. All said and done. Did Frankenheimer just pass away, or they just said no more for you? That was it. He went to movie jail permanently. That was his last film. well would I recommend that you watch this I wouldn't think it's a necessity to see it I think you could pass on it I think if you want to watch that ice fall scene it's pretty good and maybe the end the end is pretty good too yeah you can this is a watch while fast forwarding yes alright so that wraps up Reindeer Games Merry Christmas to all those who celebrate it and happy holidays to all those who don't see you in the new year
From the publisher
It's a HDTGM all-time classic! Howard Kremer (Who Charted?) joins Paul, June, and Jason to break down the 2000 holiday crime-thriller Reindeer Games. They sound off on Ben Affleck’s love of pecan pie, the terrible open-mouth kissing, and the bonkers Ashton Kutcher cameo. Plus, a revelation about the character names blows everyone's minds and we learn about Paul’s intimate relationship history with his mom. (Ep. #52 Originally Released 12/25/2012)
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