Advice Line: New Offerings, Bigger Markets

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2:35hello and welcome to the advice line on how i built this lab i'm guy roz and this is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges and as you know each week i'm joined by a legendary founder a former guest from the show who will attempt with me to help you and this week our episode is a bit of a mashup three callers and three different former guests and they're all talking about a similar challenge, how to introduce a novel product or service to bigger markets. By the way, if you're building something and you need advice or just want advice, give us a call. You just might be the next guest on this show.

3:12Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Leave us a one minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like some help with. Okay, let's get to it. So my first guest today is Che Wong. Che was first on the show in 2021, and he told the story of starting Boxed, an online retailer that delivered bulk-sized groceries and household essentials right to your home. If you want to hear the whole story, we'll put a link to that episode in the podcast description. Anyway, here on the advice line, Che and I talked a caller through different approaches to turning her local pottery studios into a national brand.

3:51Hi, Che. Hi, Guy. I'm Christina Latreverse. I'm calling from Indy Atlantic, Florida. I'm the founder of Seagrass Pottery. We're a professional pottery studio on Florida's Space Coast. We design and create the most beautiful handmade pottery, and we also host experiences that bring people together through clay. Awesome. Well, thanks for calling in, Christina. So you've got a pottery studio, and you sell pottery, and then you also have classes? That's correct. We also do workshops, classes. We have a community studio, and we also host domestic and international retreats. Wow. Yeah. That's great.

4:24Right. So tell me a little bit about the business. How did it start? So I was working as an art educator, and then I worked as a visual art content specialist for our school district where I oversaw 84 visual art programs. I really saw firsthand the power of the arts and how they can transform classrooms and communities. I always did pottery on the side, and I just found a time and space and took a bold move and signed a lease. And we opened the studio in 2019, just three months before the pandemic. And in 2022, we opened our second location. And here we are. Wow. So you've got two locations also in the area along the Space Coast.

5:03Yes. Tell me about your role. Are you making pottery? Are you teaching classes? Or are you sort of overseeing the business? I'm kind of overseeing the business. I do a lot of the design work. And I still keep my hand in creating because that's really what I'm passionate about. And then I also develop the curriculum for the classes. And I really think that's what differentiates us from other studios. I think there's a lot of great artists out there, but they aren't always great teachers. And we really take that teaching aspect really seriously. Because if you come into the studio and you have a bad experience, that could technically turn you off clay forever.

5:33So that's just something we're really intentional about in our design. And the business is sustainable, profitable? Yes. Yep. Yep. So we're on track to do about$400 ,000 this year. Total lifetime revenue are at$1.2 million. And where do most of your sales come from? The wholesale side? So that's the interesting part. And that's part of the reason for my call. We mostly are a B2B wholesale, but we do have a small percentage of retail. So you make stuff for like restaurants? Yes, we do restaurants, mostly interior designers, businesses. Wow. Wow. We're about 30 % B2B for wholesaling. And then we have 38%, which is classes and workshops.

6:17And then 30 % is our community studio because we offer like a membership program where you can kind of use the studio space as your own when our classes aren't in session. Okay. So let's get to your question. Okay. So we built Seagrass Pottery as a scalable ecosystem, not a single location studio. How would you approach positioning a brand like ours? So it scales beyond location and starts to define an entirely new category. Okay. A lot to think about there. Che, I want to bring you in here. Thoughts or questions for Christina before we tackle her question? My initial thought is, Christina, love the fact that you're an educator.

6:55And I love the fact that you became an entrepreneur. And I love the aspect if you can get fellow educators there in the summer. You talk about user acquisition and scalability. I'm sure they have students that love them. And if they knew Christina was teaching in the summer, they would come and sign up. I just love it. And when you think about what the zeitgeist is, especially in physical locations like malls that have been pretty beaten down in recent years, is that malls, at least successful ones, are transitioning to not just selling things but selling experiences. And shopping can be experience.

7:33when you go into some stores and they make you kind of do the racetrack walk and there's little things everywhere, I'm seeing more and more successful malls have those type of experiences. And so I think you might be on target or on trend. And so bringing you in to their locations might actually have some benefits for them. And you might get preferential rates and treatment if you talk to some of the larger mall operators. That was my initial reaction. That's interesting. Yeah, I'm curious, Christina. I mean, when you talk about scaling, what does that mean more physical locations like in your sort of dream house world?

8:15What would that look like? Yeah. In my dream house world, seagrass pottery is the name that people think of when they want to create and maybe have an experience maybe with their family or on a date. And they're just kind of doing something more meaningful than just, I don't know, going to the movies. And I do think there's this big draw. We even see it in our retreats where people want to come visit us. We put them up in a bed and breakfast in town and they come in and they spend the week with us just immersed in clay. I think it recharges people in a way that a lot of other activities don't, especially when they're constantly on like devices or on screens to just do the opposite and get totally away from that there's something that is just super appealing and recharging yeah it sounds like like that part of the business is really what energizes you uh more than anything else which makes sense the the only what's interesting to me is that you have 30 and sounds like it's growing 30 of your business is wholesale is you are and i'm looking at your website you have beautiful pottery that you make.

9:15What's interesting to me about the scalability question is, you have something that can scale already, which is this wholesale business that you've created, where you are actually selling to interior designers and restaurants and beyond North Florida, let's say, or Central Florida, you're all over the state and then all over the Southeast And the classes and the classroom is sort of a touchpoint that could remain in a few distinct locations where it becomes this destination. People know about seagrass because they bought a piece in a gift shop in Seattle and they want to come to one of your five locations in Florida because they know this beautiful pottery.

10:04I don't know. It's just a thought. And it may not be what you want to do. But from a scalability standpoint, that to me feels like your sort of clearest path. I think you're like right on track because we do get a lot of people who like my work. And then that's like the segue into the experience part of it. I feel like it's almost a necessity because I think one builds trust with the customers. And that to me is so valuable. So I don't, I don't know that if I see a world one without the other, but I also see your point. So just something to think about. Yeah, Christina, I, you know, kind of echoing a little bit of what Guy just said.

10:44I don't like in terms of scaling physical locations. Sorry, if I'm a wet blanket on on on this a little bit. I don't think I cannot imagine a world where and I'm not saying this is your end result that you want. But I can't imagine seagrass pottery being a billion dollar business. If you don't scale the physical locations via franchising. I just don't see it. Meaning that I think Christina yourself, you are such a kind of force behind this brand that I don't see you flying around the country to 70 locations trying to make sure everything's going well. Because we all work with 24 hours in a day.

11:24Now with that said, I think there's a lot of folks that would find your idea compelling. And if you're able to create standard operating procedures around all of this, which is not like a weird art form or esoteric art form, there's a lot of professionals that help you do that. That might be a way to scale. Now, the other thing was that I went to the website. Amazing. I think you're going to have to decide who you are. Are you that physical location with wholesale as kind of like a secondary business? or are you a wholesaler where you can come and touch and kind of design your own things? And right now, when I go to the website, there's so much at the top that I'm like, Christina, it's time to pick.

12:07We're in the adolescence phase. You're doing a few hundred thousand in revenue. Let's pick what seagrass pottery really is when they grow up. It's going to be hard, but you have to do it because there's almost too much at the banner. Yeah, I mean, I think that's a great question to ask. Like, what do we want to be? And you can be a version of all of those things, but you have to hit the gas on probably one of those. Let's say the three things are classes and then the community studio and then the products. And you split that in two. You've got retail and wholesale. The store, Seagrass Pottery, has to be a store, which I think it probably is.

12:44and the wholesale side of it, I think you have to ask yourself whether you want to and are prepared to scale that up, which means that you have to really build a team to start making those products. I mean, I'm looking at your vases and your espresso cup. They're beautiful, absolutely beautiful. I don't know how easy it is to teach people to make those products as well as they're made and probably you could do it. But that to me feels like where the opportunity is. You know, the challenge, I'll just push back on the franchise challenge, which is, you know, you've got a vibe going, right? I imagine there's a feeling that people have when they go into the space.

13:26To have somebody else take your brand and license it and replicate it, it's really hard. It's very hard to do if you're just selling chicken fingers, right? Now, try to do it when you're teaching people about how to make pottery in the way that you want people to be taught. So the franchise model is tricky because you're not going to have the same kind of quality control. That being said, I think it's worth thinking about maybe just a few more locations. Maybe you've got four stores instead of two, maybe you've got five. And each of those stores does multiple things. It's a space, it's a studio, but it's also a place to showcase this beautiful work that you've created.

14:12And again, I don't want to pressure you or push you in any direction, but if you were asking me and you said, hey, I need you to write me a check to put into this, I would say, I'll do it, but here's where I want you to go. I also think, Christina, I feel like being the entrepreneur, the tech entrepreneur in me, there's two modes it's either i'm not starting a business or i'm like going like a million miles a minute and we're driving this thing all the way to the moon but there could be a really good business here without you actually franchising all across the entire country you know i look at businesses kind of like painting with a twist or you know those places where you go and paint your own pottery and i know there's a lot less entail there because you just take the product and you leave there's no like waiting for the kiln to fire yeah um but they're just and i also would of like a place where you could go, you know, anywhere in the country and have that kind of brand loyalty and know that you're going to have a good experience, you know, if you're interested in clay or wanted to create something for yourself, you know?

15:09So, you know, my immediate thought when I went to the website and saw kind of the pottery classes, I'm dating myself, but if you ever get to that level and you do a TV commercial, you have to get Demi Moore to do it. You got to recreate that scene. But outside of that, what might be interesting is kind of what Guy was saying before on the franchise model, perhaps a red flag and a counterpoint to what I even suggested, is that some of those locations that you just mentioned, where you just paint, they might have trimmed down the experience so much because that is the level in which they can have quality control.

15:44And if you're putting people on pottery wheels all across the country, it might get pretty gnarly pretty quickly on what the end result is when people go home. And so, yeah, a counterpoint even to kind of my original point to think about. Thank you very much. Awesome. The company's called Seagrass Pottery. Christina, thanks so much for calling in. Good luck. Thanks for having me. All right. Yeah, you know, this East Fork Pottery was really blown up into a national brand, Heath here in the Bay Area. And it's – and by the way, it's interesting because if you buy pottery like where you are in New Jersey or New York City or San Francisco, Los Angeles, it's very expensive as it should be.

16:31These are beautiful handmade things. And I'm looking at her prices and they're about half. I was thinking the same thing because I've been – when you kind of go into some of these stores, especially the fine furnishing stores, you look at the bottom of some of these things and you're like, did they switch the price tag? because this has an extra zero on it. Right. So I can see why that part is compelling, especially if she's making them to order. No one's touching these prices currently available, I think. So I think she has room to go up, and there's plenty of margin in this stuff. Yes. We're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, Hernan Lopez, the founder of Wondery, joins me on the Advice Line.

17:12Stay with us. You're listening to a special mashup episode of the Advice Line, right here on How I Built This Lab.

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20:47Hey, welcome back to The Device Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz, and my next return guest is Hernan Lopez, founder of the podcasting network Wondery. Hernan first came on the show in 2023, and we will put a link to that episode in the show notes. It's an amazing story of how he left his job as a TV executive, inspired by this new thing called podcasting, and built it into a hugely successful network that was acquired by Amazon. Anyway, when Hernan joined me on the advice line, we helped a caller who generally sells his stuff through the internet, figure out whether it makes sense to sell in retail.

21:22All right, let's bring our next caller. Welcome to the advice line. You're on with Hernan Lopez, founder of Wondery. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business. Hi, everyone. I'm Jim Kersley from Boulder, Colorado. I developed and patented a camera-carrying system for professional and aspiring amateurs alike. It's called the Lemur Strap. Awesome. Jim, thanks for calling in. Welcome to the show. How does it work? It's a, okay, it's a strap around your neck, I'm assuming, but what makes it different or special? Yeah, so I've always been an avid photographer.

21:54It's not my business. It's more of a hobby. I got my first camera when I was 12 years old from my dad, who was an actual movie producer. But I took it very seriously, and I loved carrying my camera around until one day I didn't really love carrying my camera around because it was so big and awkward and heavy. It's a pain, yeah. Yeah, and you guys have probably carried around large SLR-style cameras at one point in your life. so I tried every every camera strap out there on the market and I thought you know there's got to be a better way so I just started tooling around with some aluminum parts and pieces and I realized if I hung the camera from the bottom the lens would point down and the screen on the back of the camera would point up where it was like safe from you know getting scratched and knocking off your belt buckle and the rivets on your jeans.

22:44And all of a sudden, I'm like, I've got something here because this camera is way more comfortable to carry. It's no longer the unruly camera that's rotating around your body and bouncing up and down. And so that was the first thing that I took care of was the hanging position. And then the second thing that I tackled was the ability to remove the camera from the strap in a nanosecond, like literally like less than a second. If you see like a cheetah and you want to capture the cheetah, you can grab your camera. So it, so, cause when you wear a camera, right, it usually it's the lens is pointing outwards, right?

23:25And, and, but this way it slides into this, uh, this like, what do you call it? Well, yeah. So it's a base plate, but it has a little receiver that mounts to your camera via a tripod adapter. So you can just slide it in and quick release it. Yep. I just use the quick release feature when I want to go up high. You've all seen the perp walks, right? Where the accused person is some celebrity is surrounded by all these people carrying their cameras. And they're all holding their cameras above their heads and their straps are hanging in their faces. And so now you can just press this little button.

24:04It releases in less than a second. That's cool. And then when you want your hands free, you just click it right back in. You swing the camera around behind your back where it likes to stay. That's why we named it lemur because lemur moms carry their little babies around on their backs. So they have their paws free so they can swing from tree branches like I do. Tell me a little bit. So you launched this, I think, did you say in 2025? We launched it via Kickstarter in August of 2024. And then after the Kickstarter campaign ended, we went to direct-to-consumer sales in November of 24. And then we've had one full year, 2025, where we've done direct-to-consumer sales exclusively.

24:51And now we're entering into our second full year, 2026. And so you're not in stores at all. So that is kind of a great segue to my question. Oh, great. Let's hear it. Okay, great. So we have been pretty much direct to consumer. We were contacted by B &H, photography and electronics giant out of New York City. I'm sure you guys have heard of B &H. We were pretty honored to have them reach out to us. Famous camera store, yeah. And so we're like, okay, that would be ridiculous not to take them up on this offer and start selling through a retail outlet. But it became abundantly obvious that this cuts way down on our margins, our per strap margin.

25:39But we have been experiencing a higher volume of sales, and we definitely have more exposure, people going on B &H to look for their photography equipment. So in order to attract more investment capital, would you recommend expanding further into retail to increase volume? Or should we focus more on our direct-to-consumer sales where we definitely get a higher margin per strap, but we're going to grow at a much slower rate, I would say? All right, Aaron, I want to bring you in here. First of all, thoughts for Jim? Thank you. And it sounds like an amazing product that I wish I could visualize. Because my first question would be, do you have a distinctive look that people would recognize immediately when they're seeing your...

26:35The description sounds like it is, but I'm asking from the point of view of color or branding or logo. I'm thinking about the early Beats headphones. phones remember that when people started for the first time to see that bee that essentially got apple to notice them and buy the company is that part of your branding in any way if not could it be yeah so we did put a lot of effort and thought into that our logo is looks like a little lemur paw great we have two different base colors one is black anodized because photographers are a very kind of conservative crowd that they don't like change very much they like things to be black They like things, you know, think about how cameras look the same almost as they did, you know, 50, 60, 70 years ago.