Advice Line: Playing to Your Strengths

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1:51Hello and welcome to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show who will help me try to help you. And this week, we have a special episode. It's a bit of a mashup. Three callers and three different former guests, but all three conversations find their way to a challenge all founders face, which is how do I play to my strengths? By the way, if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show.

2:24Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Send us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. And you can also send us a voice memo at hibt at id.wondery.com. And make sure to tell us how to reach you. And also, don't forget to sign up for my newsletter. It's full of insights and ideas from some of the world's greatest entrepreneurs. You can sign up for free at gyros.com or on Substack. And we'll put all of this info in the podcast description. All right, let's get to it. Our first guest today is Troy Carter, the founder of Atom Factory, which managed stars like Lady Gaga and John Legend.

3:03Troy was first on How He Built This back in 2018. He told us about how he got a star working for the Fresh Prince in West Philadelphia and how he eventually went from there all the way to the top of the music business in L.A. It's an amazing story, and we'll put a link to it in the show notes to check it out. Of course, Troy has a lot of experience managing celebrities, but he cautioned our callers on the advice line to be careful with big names and influencers. It's not enough for you to be excited about a celebrity partner. The celebrity needs to be excited about your brand as well. Welcome to the advice line.

3:38You're on with me and Troy Carter. Tell us your name and where you're calling from and just one line about your business, please. Hello, I am Honor and I'm an Aussie and my brand is Dosey and we make beautiful pill organizers because pill takers deserve pretty things too. All right, pill organizers. Welcome to the show, Honor. Thank you for joining us. So the company is called Dosey and you make organizers for pills. Like, you know, you go to like CVS and get a plastic case with a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday on it. But yours are nicer. They're more elegant. Yeah, they're pretty. That was the whole thing when I wanted to create the brand because I'm a pill taker and I just wanted something that was aesthetic and it felt more like me than just one of those sort of cheap plastic ones that you find.

4:23Yeah, it's interesting. Interesting because this feels like a place ripe for disruption. Okay, how did you get into this business? What were you doing? Were you in consumer goods before? I was in radio in Australia. I worked in radio for 15 years, getting up at 4am and doing all the fun things for radio and all the creativity that I was putting into that career. I just sort of got to a point where I was like, I want to sort of do my own thing and I want to create my own creative thing and sort of channel my energy into that. And as I said, I'm a pill taker. So I sort of was looking around at products that I could sort of reinvent.

5:00and yeah, it was the good old pill organizer that I finally stumbled on. Well, it's a cool idea. I'm looking at it now. I'm looking at your website and seeing the different like pill cases. Because when I travel, honestly, I take like supplements, you know, vitamins and fish oil and I just throw them in a Ziploc bag. Yeah, I was sitting there. I was literally sitting in a hotel one time and I had my pills in the Ziploc bag. And, you know, I had this beautiful beauty case. I had a beautiful suitcase. I had all this beauty. And then I had these pills in this Ziploc bag. And I was just like, what is that about?

5:34You know, this is something I need to take for my health every, you know, like a few times a day. And it's not pretty. Yeah. So you decided to go in this direction. Smart move, by the way. I'm always in favor of people leaving mainstream journalism, media organizations and starting on their own as I did. Honor, are you based in Australia still? No. So I launched the brand in Australia from my spare bedroom. did the whole side hustle thing. The brand went viral on TikTok after about six months, and I was getting so much demand from the American market that I just thought, okay, well, I'll do that.

6:10And I launched it in America after six months, still just me, just by myself. You're now based here in the US? Yeah. Now I'm based in America, and it's an American company, and we have an American warehouse, and it's all very American. Awesome. Tell me a little bit about what you project for sales this year in 2025. Yeah. So 2025, we're looking at$3.5 million. In sales? In sales. Yeah. Profitably too. So we've kept everything super lean and tried to keep it as streamlined as possible and just sell as many as we can. All right. So you've got a nice business going and you've got some profit on those sales.

6:52Tell me before we dive in further, what's the question you have for us? Well, I wanted to talk, Troy, to you about celebrities. We're sort of at that point where it'd be great to do some partnerships. But then you see these bigger brands like Rode selling for a billion dollars or there was a glitter freckle brand that sent their stuff to Taylor Swift and she put it on and they went ballistic. I just, how do you make a brand and a celebrity come together and it actually work? And then even equity share, because it's not like we have billions of dollars to throw at a celebrity. Yeah, it's a great question.

7:30Troy, I want to bring you in. Troy Carter, before we answer a question, do you have any questions for Honor? No, it sounds like an amazing business. I got a chance to take a look at the product too. Very beautiful and elegant product. Definitely different from the ones that we see at Walgreens. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So Troy, what do you think? I mean, if there's a product like this, you know, you want to get a celebrity involved because the idea is that they're going to, you know, help sales. What's the approach? The way I would look at it is who would be my ideal person slash partner for this.

8:06And because this is a very specific category, it has to be directly related to being part of that person's lifestyle, essentially. So one, you know, that's probably a narrow list and being able to sort of from that list kind of look at does the brand values align? Is there any sort of reputational risk? How many other partnerships do they have and how have they performed in those other partnerships? and what type of commitment will they give to the brand? Because there's certain things that happen sort of in front of the camera, but a lot of times there's more important things that happen behind the camera.

8:53So in terms of, are they gonna meet with the head of sales for your largest distributor or show up at certain events that might not be publicized, but like, how can you get the most out of that partnership and create mutual value. You know, John Legend's a really good example of somebody who is a great partner for a brand. And I'm not saying your specific brand. I'm just saying where John is a guy who behind the scenes, John can meet with any president, CEO of any company and clearly articulate the vision of the company because he's done an incredible amount of diligence before even the first meeting.

9:37And so by the time he says yes, he's knowledgeable and a real commitment around it. And that's the type of partner that you would want. That's an interesting example of John Legend. Let me ask you a question on her. Do you have a specific celebrity or specific types of celebrities in mind that you'd want to work with? It's a tricky one. I get it because you need them to be sort of in that wellness space, I guess. I mean, I'd love Selena Gomez. she's definitely in that space so people you know there's that sort of thing one of the things that i would say and you know when i look at you know we invested in a company called thrive market and when they first started they found mom influencers and health influencers and you could hear the episode on how i built this with nick green yeah yeah exactly and i and i love those guys but what what worked really well.

10:28And we've seen a lot of other companies replicate it is when you, when you're dealing with social influencers, they are used to promoting things and that is built into their lifestyle with celebrities. A lot of times they're going to look at the contract and it's going to say, you got to make four social posts. You got to show up to an event. You got to make sure that whoever you're bringing into your company, they're going to do the work in terms of promoting a brand and, but also do things that live outside of the contract. But influencers, you know, they call them influencers for a reason. They have a lot of influence.

11:12And so if you can find ones that are super authentic to your cause, it could be a great marriage. And then that way, it doesn't have to be just one. You could figure out, okay, let me pick three or four people that I feel like I have brand alignment with and use that as a platform. Yeah. I want to throw out an idea for you, Honor, because I think one of the challenges right now is I'm thinking about who would endorse this product, right? When you think about a pill case, you think about medication, right? And medication is very personal, right? If somebody's taking antidepressants or medication for heart issues.

11:49People don't necessarily want to talk about that openly. But I think one of the things that is interesting is probably a lot of people using your product, they're using it for supplements, fish oil or saw palmetto or vitamins, multivitamins. The one thing I don't see on your site is a product that would appeal to men. This is still a very, it's beautiful. It's very feminine. And guys travel and they might be taking creatine and vitamin D and vitamin multivitamin and fish oil and, you know, all these supplements, right? And so to me, it seems like there's an opportunity to create a case for the male traveler too.

12:31Because I think a lot of people think of pill cases, they think of old people who are infirm and sick and they have dementia and they can't remember to take their medication. What you're doing is something different. It's like, hey, you're a traveler, you're dynamic, you're busy, you're on the road, and here's a great way to organize your supplements. And the thing is, too, Guy, whether you're taking supplements or you're taking medication, you don't want to seem like the senior citizen pulling out that case or whatever, right? And when you think about the health influencers like Huberman, and it's like people with really large followings that are also recommending these supplements or whatever, it seems like that would be a great partnership.

13:12So like great idea, guy. Yeah, I would look into that. And then I would start with micro influencers, people with 50 ,000 followers. They're cheaper. You can find people who've got their tribe and start there. But I would really think about positioning, creating another design that maybe might appeal to men or that's more active looking in a sense. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. No, I do. We do get that feedback. Like where are the ones for the boys? It's just a slow process with molding and, you know, production and we sell out all the time and we're just constantly trying to keep up.

13:47So it's just, it's one of those small business things where you just got money stuck in product on boats and in, you know, warehouses and all the rest of it. Also one last thing I would try, which is, and I, and please, I hope I'm not encouraging listeners to do this, please don't do it. But they'll do it anyway. I get sent a lot of stuff. Okay. My mailing address is on my website. It's public. I get sent endless amounts of stuff. I don't see it all. And I appreciate it's really nice. And when I can try it, I will. But I do think it's worth it identifying, you know, five or 10 people that you do want to work with.

14:23You know, yeah, Selena Gomez, but maybe there are people who are not as high profile, who don't receive that much stuff, right, that you think could be interesting, just send them one and send a handwritten note and say, hey, I admire you. I use this for my supplements. I know you travel a lot. You're on set. And tell me what you think. You know, I'd love to partner with you or whatever. Just try that. It's not that hard to find them. And why is celebrity important to you? You know, I mean, I'm an Aussie. I'm in America. And it's all about celebrity. It feels like here. I just presume that they have the influence and they have the power and they have the momentum behind them.

15:00They can. Sometimes it depends. Troy, right? I mean, we've seen a lot of celebrity brands that just fizzle out. But I do think what Troy said earlier about finding that person with the authentic connection to it, a belief in it, is the key. Right, Troy? Yeah. You know, it's most celebrity partnerships don't work. The majority don't work. The other piece that I find is when celebrities invest, they're more committed. Yeah, because that would be good. So where it's not just this sort of one-way transaction of you writing a check or giving up equity, but it's for them to have some skin in the game and really feel a part of it, you get more of a partnership out of it.

15:47Yeah, I just listened to Hexclad and they got Gordon Ramsay. They did. I mean, but it was hard. Right. And it takes time. And whoop bands, the wristbands, you know, Will Ahmed send one to LeBron James's trainer. Right. And so not to LeBron, but his trainer. So there are ways to do it. It doesn't always work, but it does often work for the celebrity, especially if they're paid money. Ask Larry David, who got$10 million to an FTX commercial. Honor Elliot, the brand is called Dozie. Congrats. Good luck. Thank you so much. Awesome. Awesome product. Thanks for calling in. Thank you. I really actually appreciate that, what you said, Troy, that about celebrity partnerships that most of the time they don't work.

16:30And I think that is so true. And I think a lot of people put too much faith in the power of celebrity and the power of celebrity is vastly diminished today than it was 10, 15, 20, 30 years ago. It is. And you can clearly see it through TikTok. Yeah. Like people who can actually move product and move the needle is not what it used to be where you could just put a famous face next to your product and people believe the famous face. Yeah. I mean, there are plenty of brands that just don't move. You know, they don't sell if the person connected to them is not seen as somebody who's important or interesting in that space.

17:07Right. If you have a product or a brand that is coming from somebody who really genuinely lives that way, it's different. Yeah. We're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, Joe Jebbia, co-founder of Airbnb, joins me on the advice line. Stay with us. You are listening to a special mashup episode of the advice line on how I built this lab.

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21:12Hey, welcome back to The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz. So our next return guest is Joe Jebbia. He co-founded Airbnb. And Joe was one of our very first guests on the show back in 2016. And we'll put a link to that episode in the podcast description. When Joe and his co-founders, including Brian Chesky, first launched Airbnb, it was a controversial idea. A lot of people thought, why would I ever open up my house to strangers from the Internet? But Joe and Brian and their other co-founder, Nate, stuck with it. And eventually, Airbnb became one of the most legendary unicorns in Silicon Valley.

21:47Anyway, Joe came back onto the show to help our callers figure out what makes their businesses stand out from the rest. All right. Hello, caller. Welcome to the advice line you are on with Joe Jebbia, co-founder of Airbnb. Please tell us where you are calling from, the name of your business and a little bit about it. Hey, Guy and Joe. My name is RV Shongwe, and I'm calling from Johannesburg, South Africa. I'm the founder of Produb Optics, a company specializing in manufacturing outdoor and sporting optical products. Of the past few years, we've built a strong reputation in the safari and outdoor markets, with partnerships in wildlife conservation and high-end safari lodges.

22:27My question is about scaling my business. I'd like to get guidance on how to approach major retail players And of course securing the necessary investment to expand into mass retail While staying true to our core values Awesome, Arvi, welcome to the show all the way from Johannesburg Thank you for listening to the show and for calling in Pro it up, okay, tell me a little bit about what you sell What are your main products? Binoculars, rangefinders for golf You know, the safari and outdoor space is mostly binoculars, spotting scopes, which we supply to safari lodges throughout Africa. Got it. Okay.

23:06Tell me a little bit about your background. What gave you this idea to start this kind of business? You know, funny enough, we started specifically on the golf side and we thought we'd build like a really, really big business, just particularly in golf. And what we got to learn very quickly is, you know, the market wasn't as big as we thought. For rangefinders. For rangefinders, that is. And, you know, specifically in the Southern Hemisphere, because for a very long time, those markets have been dominated by international brands. And having come to college to the US, each time I went back home, it was really hard to find specific batteries for these rangefinder devices.

23:44And I was like, wow, well, this is very interesting. And that's kind of how I got into the space. And then obviously, like I said, we started in golf and we saw more opportunity on the outdoor side. And that's where ProDubOptics was born. And so you, I'm assuming you came to the US to play golf? Yes. Yeah. I came on a golf scholarship from 2016. And so funny enough, this is such a massive full circle moment for me because, guy, I started listening to how I bought this the first, basically the first year I moved to the US. Oh, nice. Well, here you are. Now you're on it. Okay, well, so a couple questions.

24:19So you're looking to figure out how to scale, how to get into retail. And there's a lot to answer there. And I want to bring Joe, owner and Joe Jebbia from Airbnb. Joe, questions for RV first. RV, it's great to meet you. And congratulations. I would ask a couple things. Relative to other things on the market, if you want to get into, say, the northern hemisphere, what do you think your competitive advantages are? I think our biggest competitive advantage is the fact that we have a high quality product just at an affordable price, right? We're not too far off from your top end brands in the market.

24:56And so definitely price point sets us apart. But I think a very important part of that is, you know, we're obsessed with Africa. We're obsessed with travel. And I think a big part of that is, you know, we play a massive role in, you know, the conservation of, you know, wildlife. And I think that's really what sets us apart to any other optics player is not only do we speak the game of wildlife conservation, but we're on the ground and we're wanting to do it. Harvey, I'm curious because I'm looking at your website now. And so your binoculars, the prices are in South African rands, but I think they're roughly about$220 right now.

25:32That's correct. Roughly. So, I mean,$221, right? Seems like a good value. But again, I don't know because there are binoculars that are probably$50 and some that are$5 ,000. So how are you positioning or how can you position what you're selling to underscore the value proposition? Sure. We back all our products with a 10-year warranty. So regardless of the price point, we give you that peace of mind to know that, hey, if anything goes wrong with your optics, you send them back to us. No questions asked. We replace them or we actually, you know, repair them ourselves. And I think that's been a big thing.