Advice Line: Reaching New Customers

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3:17Hello and welcome to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show who will attempt with me to help you. And this week, we have a special episode. It's a bit of a mashup. Three callers and three different former guests, but all tackling some version of the same question. How do you get the word out about a growing business and reach new customers? And by the way, if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show.

3:56Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Send us a one minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. You can also send us a voice memo at hibt at id.wondery.com and make sure to tell us how to reach you. And also don't forget to sign up for my newsletter. It's full of insights and ideas from the world's greatest entrepreneurs. You can sign up for free at gyros.com. And we'll put all this info in the podcast description. All right, let's get to it. Our first guest today is Leah Sullivan, the founder of TaskRabbit, the online marketplace for services like cleaning, building furniture, running errands, and a whole lot more.

4:41And Leah told the story of TaskRabbit on how I built this back in 2022. It is such a cool story. You can find it in our podcast queue, and we'll put a link in the podcast description as well. And as you'll hear, Leah had some fantastic advice for our callers when she joined me on the advice line earlier this month. Hello, welcome to the advice line. Hi, Guy and Leah. Hello, hello. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business. Sure. I'm Erin. I'm calling from Alameda, California, and I am the CEO and co-founder of Hello Divorce. Hello Divorce. Yep. We are an online platform that transforms the notoriously complicated and messy and super expensive divorce journey into an easier, kinder, and much more equitable and affordable process through a platform that combines easy-to-use technology and tools with built-in access to expert support along the way.

5:43Wow. So it's like a platform like LegalZoom or whatever to make an online will or whatever, trust, and you just speed through the divorce in a simple, straightforward way. Similar, but from one platform, you not only complete your legal forms, and there's a lot, but you can also send them for filing with the court. You can chat with a lawyer or a financial advisor or even a mediator to help you resolve conflict. And you can get the resources you need for everything from dividing home equity to co-parenting challenges and then to navigating post-divorce hurdles as well. And what's your question for us today?

6:26Okay. So when I started Hello Divorce, I knew it would be a great option for people who couldn't afford lawyers. But what surprised me in a good way was that even those who could afford an attorney have started to find value and be successful with us. However, we continue to face this recurring challenge, most people still think they need to hire a lawyer to get divorced. So how do we overcome this deeply rooted belief and build trust in the idea that an online divorce can work? Right. Okay. Well, as somebody who has not experienced this and hopes never to, I'm curious how, I'm assuming that you have a background in this, like maybe as an attorney or?

7:15Actually, I spent 15 years practicing law as a divorce attorney. Right. And I saw just how broken the system is. It is unfair. It ramps up conflict literally every step of the way. And it's set up to make divorces longer and messier because lawyers get paid by the hour and it creates literally no incentive for us to add efficiencies or to work towards a resolution. The longer the divorce goes, the more we get paid. So I knew we could do better. But to truly make a difference, we had to help people opt out of the system altogether and provide much more holistic support. And so basically, it's like a flat fee that you pay?

8:07Correct. So depending on the complexity of your divorce, customers pay between$400 and$3 ,800 for a plan that covers their entire divorce. And they can pay that as a flat fee or they can pay that over time. And then from there, they can seek a la carte expert help to the extent that they need some extra advice along the way or help resolving conflict. Leah Sullivan, I'm going to bring you in. You may have questions of your own before we answer these questions. Yeah. Well, first off, I mean, Aaron, I'm always looking for founders that I say have product market fit. And you as a founder, having experienced this industry, I mean, it makes so much sense that you have built this company.

8:55I love that you have seen where the gaps are and you have seen that it can be done a different way. And that's what you want to tackle. So I think that's so fantastic. What percentage of divorces do you feel like this works for? Does it work for everyone or are there outliers or like I have had this experience myself, right? It's a really big deal. You don't want to mess it up. And so you don't want to start down a path if you're not sure it's going to work. Is it going to make it worse or is it actually going to be better to go this way? So how do you think about that when you look at the customers that you've worked with to date and what percentage does it work for?

9:40Yes. Well, that is on my mind all the time, primarily because women file for divorce 70 % to 75 % of the time. And that is their biggest fear. So you get it. And it works for the vast majority of divorces. And the reason being is because most divorces don't go to trial and most divorces don't happen overnight. So you will have time to use our software and complete everything you need to complete and have a lawyer, an incredible lawyer on the platform review it with you if you'd like advice. you'll have time to work with a financial advisor and have them really think through how you can come out of this in a much more resilient way.

10:28In fact, the problem with the lawyer-led divorce is that lawyers end up leading everything there is to lead about divorce when in reality, most of us should be working with a financial advisor or a real estate expert. And so what I love about our platform is, yes, it's emotional, but it makes space for that and gives you the opportunity to connect with whoever you might need before you make that big decision to sign on the dotted line and sign your divorce judgment. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I have a couple of ideas. I mean, it is sort of, this is much higher stakes, but it is sort of reminiscent when we were first launching TaskRabbit.

11:08But again, building that trust around, am I going to invite someone, a stranger into my home? People were really scared about that. They were really nervous about that in the beginning. And so there is this element of education, I think, that has to be done to overcome that and trust building. You know, with TaskRabbit, we did it with background checking and we did it with, you know, utilizing social networks. I think in your case, bringing in some more of those emotional support elements that sort of give people the trust and confidence that, listen, I've got you. I know what you're going through.

11:45We're going to support you through this. Right now, it feels very transactional, which is good. It's fine. I mean, it makes me feel confident that you're going to be able to handle all of the paperwork and filings and, you know, keep sort of the trains running on time. I think what I want to feel is that element of, I understand how to make this path a healthier, happier approach for you. I mean, is it even possible to take some divorced uncouples and bring them to the forefront with some reviews of how it went, you know, with some videos of, hey, listen, yep, we got divorced and we feel better off for it and this is where we are today.

12:37Thank you to Hello Divorce for making it so uncontentious for us. I love that. And I think that's actually what we do best, but kind of leaned away from because for the longest time we were leaning into the empathy and the storytelling and the videos and the testimonials. But the problem was is that people didn't think we had the authority, like that we had the ability to handle their needs. And so now it sounds like we need to go back. We need to find the balance. It's a balance. It's a balance. And you have the credibility. You have the background to say, I know how to do this. I can handle the legal forms and the filings and all those things.

13:23So it's a little bit of maybe bringing you to the forefront too while you balance that empathy piece. I think building that credibility with directly as a founder with your customer base, but you also have that empathy as well. I mean, that's where this really all started. This is why you built what you built. So actually, I think it's really about you. Like you are the balance and maybe bringing that more to the forefront would be helpful. Yeah, agreed. Agreed. 100%. Erin Levine, Hello Divorce is the platform. Good luck. Congrats. Thanks for calling in. Thank you so much. We're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, the founder of a premium olive oil company asks for advice from two founders with decades of experience in the food industry.

14:11Stick around. You're listening to The Advice Line right here on How I Built This Lab.

14:22If you've been listening to the show these last couple of episodes, you've probably heard me mention the Airbnb original experience that I'm hosting. And I'm so excited to have a chance to connect with listeners in a completely new way. It's called the Reinvention Lab, and it's designed to help you think about how to unlock your next big move in your career or even in your life. I'll help you discover your own story in ways I do on this show with my guests. And attendees will get a chance to take a deeper dive with me on so many lessons I've learned from this show. Lessons that have transformed how I work and think about the future.

15:00All proceeds from the event will go to support the Ronald McDonald Houses that helps families stay near their children who are being treated at nearby hospitals. It's going to be really fun, and I can't wait to meet you. So come join me in San Francisco and take your idea to the next level. To grab your spot, visit Airbnb.com slash Guy. It's going to be great. This episode is brought to you by Klaviyo, the only CRM built for B2C and the key to making Black Friday and Cyber Monday your biggest wins yet. When the holidays hit, your competition only gets louder. That's why the most successful brands use Klaviyo to cut through the noise and build personalized relationships that drive more revenue.

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17:55Welcome back to The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz. Our next return guests are the husband and wife team behind Mod Pizza and Seattle Coffee Company, Scott and Ali Svensson. And when they were first on the show, they told the story of how they brought pizza to the fast casual industry after selling their coffee company to Starbucks. And we'll stick a link to that full episode in the podcast description. Anyway, when Scott and Ali came back onto the device line, they offered some really great advice to our callers. Hello, hello, caller. Please introduce yourself. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just a little bit about your business briefly.

18:34Hi there. It's great to be here. My name is Kave Nurmofidi. I'm calling from San Diego, California, and I'm the co-founder of Aficio 22. We're a mission-driven premium olive oil company sourcing our single-origin olive oil from Central California. All right. And what's your question for us today? My question is, given our growth aspirations for Aficio 22, what is the best strategy to scale our brand nationwide and enhance our distribution channels? Got it. Okay, great. Well, thanks for calling in, Kaveh. Tell us a little bit about the business. You're in Southern California, you said? That is correct.

19:12We're currently based in San Diego. We participate in various weekly farmers markets between San Diego all the way to Malibu. We also align ourselves with various wine festivals, mostly in California. And so you source your olive oil from California and it's called Aficio 22? Exactly. Tell me about that name. So Aficio is driven from aficionado. And the 22 is, we're launched in December of 2022. We're also mission driven. So we allocate 2 % of our total sales to two youth organizations in San Diego. Kaveh, tell me how you got into the olive oil business. That's a great question. I mean, olive oil was always a staple in my mom's kitchen.

19:57Whether we used salad dressings or she made stews, it was always a staple ingredient. And my brothers and I really developed an appreciation for the flavor profile, the health benefits that comes with using olive oil. And what were you doing? I mean, did you do this right out of school? Were you doing something else in life when you started this? Similar to Scott, my background is in banking and finance. I led a team of investment advisors. Cool. All right. Before we get to your question, Scott, Ali, questions for Kaveh? Do you have any further questions for him about the brand that he's starting?

20:31Yeah. Yeah. Kaveh, your business sounds really neat and it's a fantastic product. I'm curious where you're connecting with customers today. It sounds like through the farmers markets and wine festivals, is that your primary distribution channel today? Scott, one thing that we're really proud of, we're able to have the opportunity to move into for Mother's Day weekend. This past Mother's Day weekend, we were able to get into Nordstrom. And, you know, we had a sellout two day event on the 15th and 16th of May. We're really proud of that. The amount of traffic that we receive and the amount of overwhelming support, positive response that that, you know, gave us the confidence to continue to move forward and propel.

21:10You know, the farmers markets currently and the wine festivals and various events across the state is currently where we're growing and where we get a chance to speak to our customers and develop that relationship. And we're trying to organically grow from here. It's quite challenging trying to get distribution outside of California for the time being. Yeah. Just out of curiosity, how did you end up generating that opportunity with Nordstrom? Great question. One of our customers visited us at a farmer's market. She loved the product. She was a huge advocate. She reached back to Nordstrom. They have apparently a committee that helps with pop-up and collaboration with local brands.

21:51And, you know, met with them. Their head of team development came and visited us again at our farmer's market. She loved the product. She loved the design. She loved our interaction with our customers. Because when we do tastings, it's more than just people come and check out the bottle and we talk about the store. We allow them to sample our products. We provide an interactive and engaging customer experience so that when they leave, they have a really good feeling about our product and what we're trying to do. That's fabulous. Have you experienced any other retail distribution? Have you gotten your product into any other outlets?

22:26I've tried with Whole Foods. I've tried with some of the local boutique shops. it's kind of hard to get your foot into the door. But, you know, I'm a one-man show. Essentially, I do all the farmer's markets. I do all the filling of the bottles, packing, shipping. So it's marketing, sales, distribution, accounting. As you can imagine, you know, we're quite scrappy, but I'm confident with my skill sets we can grow the brand. First of all, congratulations on starting something that's special, that's mission-based. That's really cool and important. So thank you. I do have one question before we can help answer your question, and that's around your subscription situation.

23:06I know that was mentioned, or I think I saw it on your website. And I just want to know what kind of what's the status of that right now? So it's actually growing, Ali, as we speak. I actually have subscribers joining on a weekly basis. So it's not a tremendous growth we're seeing right now. But as I increase the awareness at farmers markets, at wine festivals, anyone approaches us, I usually talk about our subscription plan. And it's quite flexible in terms of the frequency and the number of bottles that customers want us to ship to them. Okay. Kaveh, a couple questions for you. The first is your price point is high.

23:43So obviously you have a premium product. I think it's about$45 a bottle right now. Is that right? That is correct. Which makes it, I think, challenging for some retailers because they want to put that on the shelves and they need to get your price point down. What are the possibilities for getting your price point down? I mean, is there a world where you're able to reduce the cost? Currently, our cost of goods sold is high because everything is worked on in the U.S. With the exception of our bottles, glass bottles, Naked arrives in the U.S. from Italy and Spain. We work on it locally in the U.S., whether we UV protected, labeling the labor, the California olive oil in itself is very expensive.

24:23And everything is certified olive oil extra virgin through the California Olive Oil Council. All those things pose a challenge in terms of reducing the cost of goods sold. The next way to go about this business is to reduce our cost of goods sold through our glass manufacturer to move over to Asia, which would significantly reduce our production costs. And obviously, we can pass on those savings to our customers and eventually be able to have the opportunity to go into retail. You know, it's interesting. Before we answer your question, I'm looking at your website, and the bottles are absolutely beautiful.

24:55I mean, clearly, this is a beautiful design. But what you just told me about the quality of the bottles and the quality of the olive oil, it doesn't jump out at you right away. The thing that you emphasized initially on the website is the mission, which is awesome, you know, allocating 2 % to supporting kids. And Scott and Allie, correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think ultimately consumers, they might like the mission, but they're going to be interested in this product based on its quality, based on what makes it really great. Because you guys have a mission with Mod Pizza. I mean, one of your biggest missions is you employ formerly incarcerated people in the shops.

25:34Amazing. But I don't think people go to Mod Pizza for that reason. Maybe 1%, 2 % of customers do, but they go to it because they like the pizza. Yeah, Guy, I think you've hit on an incredibly important point. And Kaveh, it feels like you have all of the foundations for this, which is ultimately the consumer is going to focus on the quality of the product. And that's what's going to bring them in, it's going to bring them back. The mission will then create that incremental emotional connection with the consumer that I think will build loyalty over time, but is not likely going to be the thing that necessarily brings people in in the first place.

26:08And it feels to me that example that you gave with Nordstrom's is such a great example of building a followership, building disciples of the brand, and then having them help you extend and grow the business. and that's maybe an extreme example where somebody went to bat for you and actually helped open the doors at Nordstrom's. But man, going into the farmer's markets, the wine festivals, and trying to find a way to leverage, build that community, build that followership, and then leverage that into having those individuals advocating for you with their local gourmet shop or their local, and starting to kind of build it that way and having that groundswell, if you will, of somebody who wants that super high quality product, as Guy said.

26:56Now, they might love the product. They might go to bat for you once they learn of the mission behind it. But it's going to be driven by their appreciation for the quality. The only thing I would add is the first thing that came to mind when I saw your profile was the importance of things like gift guides. And I'm sure you're very familiar with, I mean, Brightland has done an incredible job, I think, of getting into the mindset of gift guides. And when you mentioned Nordstrom, I thought, wow, you're not far from there. If you did that for Mother's Day, that kind of getting yourself into those publications and that kind of thing would be huge.