In short
Podcast Summary: How I Built This with Guy Raz - Advice Line with Alexa Hirschfeld of Paperless Post
Episode Overview In this episode, Guy Raz hosts Alexa Hirschfeld, co-founder of Paperless Post, to provide advice to entrepreneurs facing business challenges. The show features various callers seeking guidance on topics ranging from business collaborations to production decisions. The discussions center around creativity, brand identity, and navigating the challenges of running a startup.
Key Themes and Discussions
Introduction
- Host and Guest: Guy Raz introduces Alexa Hirschfeld, co-founder of Paperless Post.
- Format: The episode serves as an "advice line" where entrepreneurs call in to seek advice from both Raz and Hirschfeld.
Paperless Post Background
- Business Concept: Paperless Post aims to recreate the beauty of physical invitations in an online format, with a focus on high-quality design without ads.
- AI Integration: Alexa discusses using AI as a tool to enhance the design process rather than replace human creativity, emphasizing the importance of human-created content.
Loneliness and Social Interaction
- Post-Pandemic Insight: Alexa reflects on the loneliness exacerbated by the pandemic and how Paperless Post encourages real-life interactions through its products.
New Product Launch
Flyer
- Product Description: The Flyer is a more casual and cost-effective invitation option designed for informal events.
- Purpose: The goal is to encourage more spontaneous gatherings among friends and family.
Caller Segment Insights
Caller 1
Jess from Washington - Five Dot Post
- Business Focus: A greeting card brand specializing in cancer support and empathy-driven messages.
- Advice Sought: Guidance on structuring a collaboration with a pet product brand.
- Key Takeaways:
- Importance of brand recognition during collaborations.
- Discussion on whether to keep a combined brand name or create a standalone identity.
- Advice on maintaining brand integrity while expanding product lines.
Caller 2
Carolyn from Colorado - The Creative Garland Company
- Business Focus: Decorative garlands crafted from paper and acrylic.
- Advice Sought: Decision-making between building an in-house team or outsourcing production.
- Key Takeaways:
- Importance of defining which parts of production should remain artisanal.
- Strategies for scaling while protecting brand identity and product quality.
Caller 3
Sayuri from California - Sumo Yoga
- Business Focus: Creating tatami yoga mats and promoting a body-positive yoga style.
- Advice Sought: Effective tactics for educating a national audience about Sumo Yoga while driving e-commerce sales.
- Key Takeaways:
- Emphasize the unique benefits of tatami mats and the story behind the product.
- Importance of clear communication regarding the brand concept to avoid confusion among potential customers.
Closing Advice from Alexa Hirschfeld
- Focus on Core Business: Keep the main mission clear and avoid distractions.
- Adaptability: Emphasize the importance of being adaptable while staying true to the brand's core values.
- Creativity: Leverage creativity in addressing business challenges and exploring new opportunities.
Key Takeaways
- Human Connection: The importance of fostering real-life connections to combat loneliness.
- Collaboration Strategy: Consider the implications of brand identity when collaborating with other businesses.
- Creative Production: Identify which aspects of production can be outsourced without losing the essence of the brand.
- Education and Messaging: Clearly define and communicate the brand and product benefits to engage consumers effectively.
Additional Information
- Call to Action: Listeners are encouraged to submit their business questions for future episodes.
- Production Credits: The episode was produced by Rommel Wood, with music by Ramtin Arablouei and editing by John Isabella.
This summary encapsulates the essence of the episode, highlighting discussions, advice, and insights shared during the interactions with the callers.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOIntroducing Alexa Hirschfeld
0:45 to 2:08
Guy introduces Alexa Hirschfeld, co-founder of Paperless Post, sharing her background and their previous discussion.
“Alexa, it's great to have you back on the show.”
AI and Human Creativity in Design
2:08 to 3:05
Alexa discusses the role of AI in design and how it can enhance human creativity.
“I think AI is pretty amazing and I think it can be an accelerator of human creativity rather than a replacement for human creativity.”
Encouraging In-Person Connections
3:05 to 4:32
Alexa highlights the importance of in-person connections post-COVID and how her business encourages gatherings.
“You put out a blog post late last year about loneliness.”
Creating Informal Invitations
4:32 to 5:31
Discussion on the new product 'Flyer' aimed at creating casual invitations.
“And so you guys are, I guess, trying to introduce a product that's trying to sort of create a more informal invitation, right?”
Welcoming the First Caller
5:31 to 5:46
Guy and Alexa prepare to take the first caller on the advice line.
“You're on with Alexa Hirschfeld, co-founder of Paperless Post.”
Jess Walker's Journey with Five Dot Post
5:46 to 8:12
Jess shares her story of founding Five Dot Post, a greeting card brand for cancer support.
“I'm Jess Walker in Washington State, and I'm the founder of Five Dot Post, a greeting card brand that specializes in cancer support, grief, and empathy driven cards.”
Growth and Collaborations
8:12 to 9:48
Jess discusses the growth of her business, including a partnership with a pet brand.
“And we just want to make showing up easier.”
Navigating Brand Identity in Collaborations
9:48 to 10:47
Jess poses a question about maintaining brand identity in collaborations, spurring a discussion.
“It's an interesting time to be running my business.”
Protecting Designs and Intellectual Property
10:47 to 14:08
Discussion on the importance of protecting designs and intellectual property in creative businesses.
“And congratulations on the traction also that you're seeing recently.”
Protecting Your Brand and Designs
14:08 to 17:21
Learn about the importance of protecting your brand and designs while fostering innovation.
“In other words, you've got your human brand, right, which is your which is five out post.”
Show all 22 chapters
Introduction to Creative Garland Company
17:33 to 18:36
Meet Carolyn Horeski and learn about her unique decorative garlands.
“Welcome back to The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab.”
From Hobby to Business
18:38 to 21:24
Discover how Carolyn turned her hobby into a successful business during the pandemic.
“Thanks for calling in the Creative Garland Company.”
Scaling Production Challenges
21:26 to 25:01
Explore the challenges of scaling production and the decision between in-house and outsourcing.
“My thoughts for you, first of all, are that I don't know that it's really this in-house versus outsourcing question that you need to answer.”
Advice for Growing Your Business
25:03 to 27:36
Gain insights on hiring part-time help and maintaining creative control while expanding.
“What's nice about part-time hires is that it's sort of an extended interview where you can see, is it working or is it not?”
Introducing the Caller
28:18 to 28:36
Sayuri from Los Angeles shares her yoga business concept.
“I am calling from Los Angeles, California.”
Exploring the Tatami Yoga Mat
28:36 to 29:52
Sayuri discusses the inspiration behind her Tatami yoga mat.
“Sumo yoga is a unique yoga concept that redefines body positivity by empowering individuals to feel strong, grounded, and fully accept their own bodies.”
Business Progress and Challenges
29:52 to 30:58
Sayuri shares sales figures and community feedback on her product.
“So you are importing these yoga mats from Japan?”
The Concept of Sumo Yoga
30:58 to 32:58
Sayuri explains her unique approach to yoga inspired by sumo wrestling.
“Like, obviously, I know what a sumo wrestler is, and I'm looking at your website, and the first thing you see is a sumo wrestler.”
Advice on Educating the Audience
32:58 to 34:35
Alexa provides insights on effectively educating about sumo yoga.
“All right, so a lot that you want to do.”
Market Insights and Product Positioning
34:35 to 37:34
Guy and Alexa discuss the yoga market and how to position the mats.
“and we've done many athleisure wear brands on the show, Lululemon and Viore and many others.”
Final Thoughts for Sayuri
37:34 to 37:58
Guy and Alexa conclude their advice for Sayuri's business strategy.
“So I think, Alexa, we have – I think we've given Sayuri her marching orders here.”
Reflections with Alexa Hirschfeld
37:58 to 39:56
Guy asks Alexa about her journey with Paperless Post.
“Alexa, before I let you go, I want to ask you a question.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:09Alexa Hirschfeld:Hello and welcome to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show, who will help me try to help you. And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-7000. 31298. Leave us a one minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. All right, let's get to it. Joining me this week is Alexa Hirschfeld. She's a co-founder along with her brother, James of Paperless Post.
0:44Alexa Hirschfeld:It's an online invitation company. Alexa, it's great to have you back on the show.
0:48Guy Raz:It's great to be here. Thank you for having me.
0:50Alexa Hirschfeld:And I apologize for my voice of battling a cold, but I'm feeling great. So Alexa, So you were first on How I Built This, you and your brother were on it in 2024. And you guys got this idea. And it was that you wanted to kind of recreate the beauty of a physical invitation, but to do it online. And now, almost 20 years later, like hundreds of millions of invitations have been sent. It is a great story. And if you guys haven't heard it, we'll put a link to it in the show notes. I mean, I remember we talked about this when you were on the show, because one of the things that makes paperless posts unique, many things.
1:23Alexa Hirschfeld:But one of the things is you have no ads on the websites or in the invitations. People pay to use your designs and your service. And it really feels like a high-end invitation, you know, like something you get in the mail. We've used paperless posts for so many important occasions in our lives. My wife's 50th birthday party last year, for example. And they're so beautifully designed. I'm sure, you know, you get this all the time where people are saying, well, you know, AI is going to be coming for design and for creativity. And I know that you also have some AI technology that you're working with to help people design cards.
2:00But I wonder how you think about sort of protecting the business so it's thriving in 10 or 20 years.
2:08Guy Raz:Of course, yeah. I am a real believer. I think AI is pretty amazing and I think it can be an accelerator of human creativity rather than a replacement for human creativity. I think that having more AI-generated content on the internet and in the world is also going to create more of a demand for human-created content. And it's just going to raise the bar for quality. For us specifically, the way that we are really focused on using AI at the moment is in taking work that users don't need to do out of the process of designing. We're working on ways of collapsing steps and taking time out of the process of customizing, but enabling people still to put their fingerprint on the design.
3:04Yeah.
3:05Alexa Hirschfeld:You put out a blog post late last year about loneliness. People are not spending time with other people for obvious reasons. People are on screens and communicating through screens. And you wrote a blog post about this and how you're trying to do your part, I guess, as a business in trying to get people to hang out more casually, just to have like, you know, spontaneous parties or get togethers or gatherings.
3:30Guy Raz:Yeah, I think that for a lot of reasons, people haven't been prioritizing spending time with real friends and family in person because they have this idea that they are keeping in touch with friends and family by seeing kind of images and stories and holograms of their friends online and different types of social media. and I remember after COVID seeing my friends at, you know, I was actually at a wedding and thinking, wow, you know, you're so much funnier and more nuanced and sensitive and interesting than I remember. And then what I was getting from you in exclusively, you know, online form, I think real life makes people more dimensional and just better than they are when they're kind of like just represented in two dimensions.
4:24Guy Raz:And so my advice is to really prioritize that type of interaction with the people in your life.
4:32Alexa Hirschfeld:Yeah, absolutely. And so you guys are, I guess, trying to introduce a product that's trying to sort of create a more informal invitation, right? Because when you get a paperless post, I think people think, oh, this is a formal party or, you know, but you guys introduced something called the flyer, which is, I guess, designed to be texted, right? Not necessarily emailed.
4:55Guy Raz:So Flyer, yeah, Flyer can be, all of our invitations can be texted, but you're absolutely right that Flyer is a more casual, lighter weight version of a paperless post that is less expensive than our classic product. There's a lot of free options. It's for people who want to express the aesthetic of their party, but not express that it's going to be a wedding, necessarily. Maybe it's just a potluck at your house for a friend's giving. And what we want to do is enable people to have more parties that don't need to be a big deal because then you'll do it more.
5:32Alexa Hirschfeld:Yeah. Alexa, what do you say? Should we take a call?
5:35Guy Raz:Let's do it.
5:36Alexa Hirschfeld:All right. Let's bring in our first caller. Welcome to the advice line. You're on with Alexa Hirschfeld, co-founder of Paperless Post. Please tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just a little bit about your business.
5:45Guy Raz:Hey, Guy. Hi, Alexa. I'm Jess Walker in Washington State, and I'm the founder of Five Dot Post, a greeting card brand that specializes in cancer support, grief, and empathy driven cards.
5:58Alexa Hirschfeld:Awesome. Thanks for calling in, Jess. So tell us more about the cards. What do they, when you get one, what do they look like?
6:04Guy Raz:So I came up with this idea in 2018, shortly after my late husband was diagnosed with cancer in our mid-20s, the support cards we were seeing in the cancer space really felt like they resonated with a different demographic. And we were young and we were fighting this in a way where you use like humor and it was just different. So the cards that I created specifically in the cancer space really lean into that using humor as medicine. Like if you can't laugh about it, it can be too heavy, that kind of energy. And it really resonated with the cancer community in general. And it's grown beyond the scope of just cancer cards.
6:43Guy Raz:We have full year-round seasonal everyday cards. It's a much wider scope at this point, but receiving a card that really resonates because it's written by someone who's really been there. And that's been the heart of all of our cards.
6:57Alexa Hirschfeld:I know that a lot of people have experienced this where cancer comes into your life somehow, a friend or somebody in your family or somebody you love, and it's really hard. You don't know what to say. You don't know how to react or respond. You don't, it's, and you don't want to say the wrong thing. I've talked to people who are survivors and they'll say, the worst thing I heard was when people are like, we're going to beat this together. You know, some, some people, but some people do want to hear that. And I'm looking at your cards and they're so great. They're so creative. Chemo is tough, but I know someone tougher.
7:31Alexa Hirschfeld:Cancer can suck it. Cancer has no idea what it's coming for. This is so shitty. I'm here for anything you need on a card. What a great idea. I love this.
7:40Guy Raz:Right. It's just what you actually want to hear when you're going through it. Sometimes you don't want to see a sad flower that just says get better. You want to hear what you're thinking. You want to have that reflected to you. And to what you said, the main goal of Five Dot Post was to lower the barrier to entry to support someone because you get nervous to say the wrong thing. And I want to make it to where we provide the words for you so you can just go ahead and be the supporter. You don't have to be scared to say the wrong thing. And to be honest, you're never going to say the wrong thing.
8:09Guy Raz:Like it might resonate more or less, but they just want you to show up. And we just want to make showing up easier.
8:15Alexa Hirschfeld:Yeah. And so you expanded this to birthdays and graduations and Father's Day and Mother's Day. And do you write all the cards?
8:23Guy Raz:I do. I am the designer for everything. I come up with all the words. We recently expanded in the last few years to I don't have to do everything now. I have a fulfillment center. We're in about 700 small retailers around the country as well as national retailers. But I am still the designer for everything, and they're all my words.
8:43Alexa Hirschfeld:How's the business doing? Give us a sense of what you guys are doing in sales.
8:47Guy Raz:Yeah. The last two years, we've been about 350 ,000, both 2024 and 2025. and it's in a bit of a transition year where this year I have entered a partnership with a pet brand called Sweet Paws, Marissa Gertie, and she's actually been on the advice line previously. She was on the advice line.
9:06Alexa Hirschfeld:She makes the two rings for dogs, right? Exactly. The teethers, yes.
9:10Guy Raz:We ran into each other at a trade show last year and decided to do pet sympathy cards, taking what I do really well, what she does really well, and we created this collaboration. It has grown exponentially in the first 12 months. And that partnership is, we're now on Chewy. We won three golden tickets at Walmart's open call. And in a few weeks, we're going to be launched at every Petco nationwide. So yeah, so we're in a huge growth spurt right now. So just in POs for that partnership, it's already exceeded last year's revenue just in January of this year.
9:47Alexa Hirschfeld:So amazing.
9:48Guy Raz:It's an interesting time to be running my business.
9:51Alexa Hirschfeld:Wow. I love this idea. I mean, pet sympathy cards and to do them well. So before we jump in a little bit further, tell us what your question is for us.
10:01Guy Raz:My question is when a collaboration like Sweet Paws by Five Dot Post, which is what we've been calling it with all these new retailers, When it grows beyond its original scope, how do you decide whether to keep that combined brand name or evolve it into a standalone identity? And are there benefits to maintaining a visible connection to the original brands versus creating something totally new? All right.
10:25Alexa Hirschfeld:So you've got Sweet Paws with your brand, with Five Dot Post. And Alexa, you've done a bunch of collabs. You've done collabs with Martha Stewart, Richard Scarry, the Richard Scarry books that are incredible, Cars and Trucks and Things That Go. It's an amazing collaboration. You guys are doing a paperless post. I mean, collaborations are an awesome way to scale a brand, an idea, but there's questions and things that you've got to figure out as they come.
10:56Guy Raz:Yeah, congratulations. It's really an amazing story. And congratulations on the traction also that you're seeing recently. And I think my first question for you to understand how to better answer yours is how much brand recognition do you believe that your original five dot post brand has? I think that's a great point. When we first started, we didn't know it would take off. So we were like, people will find these cards and then that will create the opportunity to send customers to both of our respective businesses. We thought that was like a positive marketing tool. And we're now seeing just as we're launching this stuff that it's a little confusing for customers because they're like, who's what?
11:45Guy Raz:Like, it's also quite wordy, sweet pause by five dot post. So we're just trying to decide maybe this is a bigger thing than either of our respective brands, even though we've both had success in our own worlds. Perhaps it makes sense just to create it as this separate identity. Because to your point, it does seem like it is growing at a more exponential rate than either of our respective businesses at this point.
12:10Alexa Hirschfeld:How have you set up the collaboration? Is it under 5.Post or is it a separate?
12:16Guy Raz:Yeah, we have a separate LLC that is Sweet Paws by 5.Post and we're both 50 % owners of that LLC. Got it.
12:23Alexa Hirschfeld:Okay. And so, I mean, I guess the question is, if this business is really sort of going to blow up and grow, I mean, I was looking at pet accessories. I mean, this is a$30 billion global business. It's a huge – it's accessories. That doesn't include food or other dog care products. It's just accessories. So you're talking about a huge market, and I wonder whether it would just be worth kind of creating a new brand around this and really focusing on that this is a separate business.
Read the full transcript
13:02Guy Raz:I think that makes a lot of sense. And again, to your point, we started with cards, and then we also have giftable lifestyle products as well, like accessories and things. So it's like there are going to be a lot of products under this new entity. So I do think maybe what you're saying to have it be its own standalone would make a lot more sense to consumer. I guess the other question I have is how important the brand is for the sales of 5.Post. And if it is important and you want to have a brand that makes sense for your product line in this collaboration, the other thing you could do is keep 5.Post, create a a brand that makes sense for this new collaboration and have them both live under an umbrella company, which doesn't need to have a consumer-facing brand.
13:52Guy Raz:But you could imagine spinning off other brands underneath that that are owned by that umbrella company that really speak to customers in different moments in their life with different needs. That's a really cool idea. Yeah, I like that.
14:09Alexa Hirschfeld:Yeah. In other words, you've got your human brand, right, which is your which is five out post. And then you've got your animal brand, which is which is this new entity. And, and by the way, how are you thinking about protecting your designs and your, you know, and your IP, for example, is I don't know, Alexa, is it I mean, in in in sort of the with what you do, and your designs, and even the things that you guys write, can you can you protect those? things?
14:40Guy Raz:So you can protect them. If we're talking about patents, it's not going to stop other people from trying to copy your product, especially from a design perspective. It's really easy for a copycat to go right up to the edges of what's legally acceptable and offer a knockoff product. I don't think that any other provider of products is going to be as good a version of you as you are. I think that you probably shouldn't spend time worrying about patenting designs. You should focus on continuing to innovate and to offer this full, authentic experience, which you really have. And I think copycats, they might look like your product, but I think for the people that are really looking to buy something that is gonna send the right message to the other person, they're actually, they're gonna pay attention to the details.
15:43Guy Raz:And I think in many cases, consumers aren't as easy to trick and pandering to them with copycat inauthentic messages is just, it's not as effective as copycats might think. I really appreciate you saying that. And I think that's great advice because I have copycats. It feels like whack-a-mole. Like I have a handful of trademarks, but there's really not a whole lot you can do other than spending hours of your very valuable time as a CEO trying to reach out to have them removed and have cease and desist. And I think what you're saying is really powerful because you're right. It's not just the sentiment.
16:21Guy Raz:It's not just the image. It really is the whole experience. And I think that's going to be a large part, too, with this new business is creating that experience for these pet parents. and celebrating their identity as a pet owner, not just I got this that says like I heart my dog. It really resonates with who they are as a person. And also the brand that it's coming from and the story of the brand that it's coming from is something that copycats aren't gonna as authentically tell a story around. I think that also is an argument for keeping 5.post what it is and having the story behind that brand.
16:59Guy Raz:and with the new collaboration, having the right story behind that brand because that's something that's really hard for like an AI copycat to authentically communicate.
17:11Alexa Hirschfeld:Yeah, absolutely. Jess Walker, the brand is called 5.Post. Congrats. What a great idea. I love it. Love what you're doing. Keep us posted. Good luck.
17:20Guy Raz:Thanks so much. Thank you.
17:23Alexa Hirschfeld:We're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, another caller, another question, and another round of advice. I'm Guy Raz. Stick around. You're listening to The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab.
17:49Alexa Hirschfeld:Welcome back to The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz. Battling a cold, but I'm getting better. My guest today is Alexa Hirschfeld, co-founder of Paperless Post. And Alexa, are you ready for our next call?
18:01Guy Raz:Absolutely.
18:03Alexa Hirschfeld:All right, let's bring our next caller. Welcome to the advice line. You're on with Alexa Hirschfeld, the co-founder of Paperless Post. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business.
18:11Guy Raz:Hi, my name is Carolyn Horeski. I live in Crested Butte, Colorado. And the name of my company is The Creative Garland Company. At The Creative Garland Company, we create decorative garlands that are known for their distinctive designs, sparking conversations, and elevating otherwise ordinary decor. Think ski chairlift garlands with dogs and cats as riders, upside down sleeping bat garlands, bicycle garlands, just to name a few.
18:36Alexa Hirschfeld:All right, Carolyn, welcome to the show. Thanks for calling in the Creative Garland Company. Okay, I'm embarrassed to admit this. I was like, what's a garland again? And then I went on your website and I was like, oh, that's a garland. So can you just indulge me for a moment for the five people listening who don't know what a garland is. Can you describe what it is?
18:55Guy Raz:Sure. Well, I think most people, when they hear garland, they think of the nice floral, beautiful garlands on a line so that you would decorate an area a lot of times for weddings, parties, things like that.
19:08Alexa Hirschfeld:And they're made out of paper, like cut paper.
19:11Guy Raz:Yeah, really thick cardstock paper, as well as I've just started getting into making some out of acrylic as well. But most of them right now are cardstock.
19:19Alexa Hirschfeld:Cool. All right. And tell me about the business. How did you come up with this idea? I didn't, I mean, it's cool. I'm looking at all the things that you make and do you have a background in crafts and...
19:30Guy Raz:Well, it all started during the pandemic and my daughter wanted one of those little cricket machines that you could cut paper. She wanted to make stickers. And, you know, of course, being a little kid, she got bored with it within two weeks. I took it over, started getting into paper art and design, selling at our local farmer's market. And then for one Christmas market, I came up with this chairlift garland idea and it sold out.
19:55Alexa Hirschfeld:Like ski chairlifts.
19:56Guy Raz:Yeah. And so I thought I was onto something and I just took that idea and kept growing it.
20:01Alexa Hirschfeld:It's so cool. So you are. So you've got I'm looking at you've got all kinds of garlands, wedding garlands, bride and grooms. Do you sell, I'm assuming, only through your website?
20:11Guy Raz:I sell through my website. I also do wholesale. And then I've still been doing in-person markets locally and statewide as well.
20:20Alexa Hirschfeld:And tell me a little bit about how the business did in 2025.
20:24Guy Raz:It did well. We're growing. I would say that I really started this business in the spring of 2024. That's when I got a new machine, started working on it. And so last year was my first full year in business, I would say. And it did about 43 ,000 in sales, which I was pretty happy with. And it just keeps growing.
20:47Alexa Hirschfeld:And you are making all of this yourself in Crested Butte?
20:51Guy Raz:Yes.
20:53Alexa Hirschfeld:So you get like all the paper stock sent to you and then you have like in your garage, you've got or you're just constantly cut because it's it's these are hand cut and then you're putting them on the twine yourself.
21:06Guy Raz:I used to put them on the twine. I am now packing the twine with the objects so that the end user can do it. That's the thing it's fully adjustable to. So you can move the objects to fit your space.
21:16Alexa Hirschfeld:But you're still cutting every single one.
21:19Guy Raz:Yes. Wow.
21:21Alexa Hirschfeld:That's a lot of work. Okay. Before we dive in a little further, what's your question for us?
21:25Guy Raz:Okay. So my business has reached a point where I can no longer handle production on my own. How should I evaluate the decision between building an in-house production team and workspace versus outsourcing manufacturing, all while protecting product quality, brand identity, and the creative flexibility that got me here.
21:43Alexa Hirschfeld:Okay, Alexa, thoughts for Carolyn?
21:46Guy Raz:My thoughts for you, first of all, are that I don't know that it's really this in-house versus outsourcing question that you need to answer. I think that, especially for creative brands, it's more sequenced and hybrid than that. So my advice is to think about what do you have to do and what things that you currently do are repeatable and you personally don't need to do. So, for example, you know, concept and design ideas, new SKUs, limited runs. That's probably one type of thing you do. Then there's the production of the components, like cutting, printing raw materials. probably there's assembling and finishing like you know string sorting and with then there's fulfillment packaging etc and I think the question is you know if something defines your brand it needs your taste if it changes often that's the kind of thing you should keep close but if it is consistent and repeatable systematize it you know I think you are already scaling your business and And so you're just you need to decide what has to stay artisanal and what can become a system.
23:05Guy Raz:OK.
23:06Alexa Hirschfeld:Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, you have a what you're bringing to this, I'm assuming, of the designs, right? You are designing everything.
23:15Guy Raz:And that's the part I love. I love doing that and I love creating new ideas and they just come to me all the time. It's just the time I don't have to do everything.
23:23Alexa Hirschfeld:So you're thinking your question is, should I outsource this? Like, should I send the production elsewhere or not? And I guess if somebody else worked with you part time and did them out of your garage, would that be a solution or not really?
23:38Guy Raz:Yes, it would be. I need to get out of the garage. I do have a space down the road that I'm looking at that hopefully will come to fruition and I can rent that out.
23:46Alexa Hirschfeld:A space in town in Crested Butte.
23:48Guy Raz:A little in Gunnison, about 30 miles down the road.
23:50Alexa Hirschfeld:So I think that you have an opportunity, right, to, as Alexa said, to find, I mean, maybe you're small, you're doing$45 ,000. But clearly you're growing and there's demand. And so you may be in a position to hire somebody hourly part time to do those kinds of things. Because when you're talking about outsourcing, you're talking about a whole different world. It's like you've got long lead times and there's minimum orders that you quantities that you've got to order and they can't be as flexible. Like now you can just turn on a dime if someone's like, hey, you know, I'm throwing a party for my wife's 50th and she loves musicals.
24:33Alexa Hirschfeld:Can you make garlands? You can do that right away. You can make something like that. And so the minute you outsource it, it's it's trickier. I mean, and you can really only outsource once the variability of your product is low. You know, in other words, once you're like what people are ordering, the demand is predictable. Like if the sleighs are accounting for 60 or 70 percent of your business, then that might be a time to think about doing it.
24:59Guy Raz:I agree with that. I think also that the part-time suggestion is really smart. What's nice about part-time hires is that it's sort of an extended interview where you can see, is it working or is it not? And if it's working, then that is just the best way of vetting the quality of your working relationship with somebody is actually working with them. So that's a nice thing. Also, you know, less commitment. another thing i might consider is are are there certain parts of your process that those skills are required for manufacturing something else that may be local like the cutting for example are there other products that need to be cut in a similar way where you could find someone who who you aren't just training from the ground up but actually they have skills in that part of the production process that you could leverage i think that putting your creativity towards figuring out what parts of what you're currently doing in-house you can start to hire somebody else to do would be a good use of time.
26:04Guy Raz:Okay.
26:05Alexa Hirschfeld:Yeah. You know, I'm looking at your, to science, these are so cool. And by the way, I think your, your prices are pretty low. I mean, are you, is that standard? I mean, it's, you know, 25, 30 bucks for one of these handmade garlands.
26:21Guy Raz:Well, I love that you say that because some of the feedback I get is the opposite. Some people think it's a little too expensive, but I always have to reiterate to them that, hey, it's handmade, it's made in the USA, kind of drive those points through.
26:35Alexa Hirschfeld:So it sounds like right now you are in a great position to kind of grow incrementally and find somebody part-time. I mean, that could be helpful to get somebody to start doing it and to enable you to go to the trade shows and to do more business development and design.
26:54Guy Raz:Yes, I love that idea. And I love that idea of having the part-time person kind of vetting them as we go and seeing how they can work out if it ended up being a good fit.
27:04Alexa Hirschfeld:Awesome. Alexa, any last thoughts, words of wisdom for Carolyn?
27:09Guy Raz:I think that, you know, you should just think about how you can make your job into the part that you love and that you're really excellent at. And use some of your creativity to figure out how you can solve for the other steps of the process that you know well, you can do well, but you don't have to be the one to do well. Okay.
27:32Alexa Hirschfeld:Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Congrats, Carolyn, on this idea. It's really, really cool stuff. The Creative Garland Company, thanks for calling in.
27:39Guy Raz:Thank you so much. Congratulations. Thank you. Bye.
27:44Alexa Hirschfeld:Stay with us because after the break, we'll talk to another founder working to take their business to the next level. That's after the break. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to The Advice Line right here on How I Built This Lab.
28:13Alexa Hirschfeld:welcome back to the advice line on how i built this lab i'm guy roz and today i'm taking your calls with alexa hirschfeld co-founder of paperless post all right let's bring on our next caller hello welcome to the advice line you're on with alexa hirschfeld co-founder of paperless post tell us your name where you're calling from and a little bit about your business
28:31Guy Raz:Hi, Alexa, and hi, guys. My name is Sayuri Tsuchitani. I am calling from Los Angeles, California. Sumo yoga is a unique yoga concept that redefines body positivity by empowering individuals to feel strong, grounded, and fully accept their own bodies. Cool.
28:49Alexa Hirschfeld:All right. Welcome to the show. So it's a sumo yoga. So tell me what is your product that you're selling?
28:56Guy Raz:I am selling Tatami Yoga Man.
28:59Alexa Hirschfeld:Tatami yoga, like tatami those straw floors like that you find in traditional Japanese homes.
29:06Guy Raz:Yes, yes, yes.
29:07Alexa Hirschfeld:Got it. Okay. And so tell me a little bit about this business. How did it start? I'm assuming you are a yoga practitioner.
29:16Guy Raz:Yes. I love yoga and I go to studio religiously, but there's always been one thing that bothers me, the smell of yoga mat. and when when i went back to japan to visit my mom i realized she hasn't changed the tatami she first moved to the house and there is still fresh clean and comforting after all those years and i decided to create the tatami yoga mat with my experience with my growing up in japan
29:52Alexa Hirschfeld:So you are importing these yoga mats from Japan?
29:56Guy Raz:Yes, I am making in Fukuoka, Japan and importing to United States
30:02Alexa Hirschfeld:And I just spent two and a half weeks in Japan And stayed in a ryokan with tatami floors And it was incredible And I wish I lived there all the time So I know how amazing this material is it's like a grass, right? And it's woven and it's cured. And tell me a little bit about your business so far. Where are you? You're selling these online. Are you selling them anywhere else?
30:29Guy Raz:I'm selling this at Little Tokyo Farmer's Market every Saturday.
30:35Alexa Hirschfeld:Got it. And how are they doing so far? What's been the response?
30:39Guy Raz:So far, I sold, my net gross is$2 ,500 at the moment. So it's a slow start. But I'm also in the U.S. sumo community, and they are liking my product.
30:57Alexa Hirschfeld:And tell me a little bit about this idea of sumo yoga. Like, obviously, I know what a sumo wrestler is, and I'm looking at your website, and the first thing you see is a sumo wrestler. What is that? What's the idea around sumo and yoga?
31:11Guy Raz:Yeah, so I grew up watching sumo on TV with my great-grandmother. and then years later, I started doing sumo and yoga combined and I created this sumo yoga concept, which is the squat-based, which is called shiko. Squat-based yoga? Yeah, sumo squat, basically, to the West, yeah.
31:36Alexa Hirschfeld:Nice. I love sumo squats. Very, very good for you. Yes. So it sounds like you've got this concept of like, this sort of a brand concept but you're starting with these tatami mats and so do you have this idea of other products that you want to create or like a yoga studio or a kind of a type of yoga that you want to promote or create I like to
32:04Guy Raz:create a little bit more product base and I am working on making a furoshiki yoga carrier which is the piece of cloth wrapping with the Japanese furoshiki weight and also I'm looking for creating a tatami box so that you can use with while you're doing a yoga sequences and and how much are the mats how much they
32:30Alexa Hirschfeld:cost well 99 1 99 per mat okay and and before being Alexa in tell us your question for us.
32:37Guy Raz:Yes, my question is, sumo yoga is unfamiliar to many people, making education essential to its growth. I want to explore the most effective tactic to educate a nationwide audience about sumo yoga while promoting body positivity and self-acceptance and simultaneously drive e-commerce sales of tatami yoga.
32:59Alexa Hirschfeld:All right, so a lot that you want to do. You want to You want to educate people about sumo yoga. You want to promote body positivity and you want to sell your yoga mats. I want to bring you in, Alexa, any thoughts or questions or ideas for Sayuri?
33:15Guy Raz:Yeah, so I think that education is essential here. And it's important that it's very crisp. When something is unfamiliar, people need a quick mental hook before they really, you know, ask more questions and lean in. And I'd encourage you to define sumo yoga early and consistently. so for example it's a yoga practice inspired by traditional sumo movement whatever the right words are it's not wrestling it's designed to be accessible across body types and focus on strength flexibility balance and confidence whatever the right words are you'll know better than me but i think that that definition up front helps people understand who it's for and how it's different from other yoga practices or other wellness practices.
34:06Guy Raz:And I think one of the questions people will definitely ask is, can I use this for all yoga? And if the answer is yes, I think it's really important to say that clearly because it reduces friction and it will expand the audience pretty meaningfully. And I think that the goal isn't to explain everything. It's to explain just enough so that people's curiosity is piqued and they want to understand more.
34:33Alexa Hirschfeld:Yeah, Sayuri, I agree. I mean, I think about the yoga market, and we've done many athleisure wear brands on the show, Lululemon and Viore and many others. We're talking about, if you think about yoga alone as a global market, it's a$120 billion global industry. It is a massive industry, right? And if you want to capture some of those consumers, I really think you want to lean into the mat. Sumo yoga can be the brand and it can be inspired by sumo wrestlers. But I think you want to be careful not to confuse people because you want to make sure that people see these mats and think, oh, this is better than a, you know, a rubber mat or whatever other material, you know, mats are made out of.
35:21Alexa Hirschfeld:This doesn't smell. It's natural. It's from Japan. It's handmade. And I think that you want to kind of reverse what you're emphasizing here because when I go to your website, I see a sumo wrestler and then I see mats that are$200. And unless you know what tatami is, many people might think, well, a straw mat for$200? I think you want to explain why these are so special. The artisanship that goes into them, the curing, the particular kind of reeds that are used to make these mats, the trained artisans who make them in a specific part of Japan and how you are making them specifically for yoga and why it's a better experience.
36:05Alexa Hirschfeld:I think you really want to kind of reverse what you're emphasizing now and focus on the mats and maybe back into the sumo stuff later on. Does that make sense?
36:16Guy Raz:Yes, it does make sense. Yeah, definitely. I was also struggling how can I deliver my message to the audiences? That was the main question as well, not just selling the tatami yoga mat. So it was very clear now. I completely agree with that. I think that it's very compelling and relatable, the story that you said about loving yoga, but not loving the smell of the mats. And then describing your grandmother's tatami yoga mat. I think that alone is just very compelling.
36:54Alexa Hirschfeld:It really is. It's a great story. I mean, a lot of yoga mats are made from natural materials like rubber. But, you know, people don't always like that. And here you have your life experience growing up in a home with tatami floors. It has natural grip. It's very durable. It's antimicrobial or antibacterial, whatever it is. And it lasts forever. And it's entirely natural. There's no synthetic materials. And I think that would appeal to a lot of people, especially the kinds of people who are part of this$120,$130 billion global yoga industry.
37:34Guy Raz:Yes. Yes. I completely agree.
37:37Alexa Hirschfeld:So I think, Alexa, we have – I think we've given Sayuri her marching orders here. Really lean in on the mats and on what the benefits of the mats are. Yes.
37:51Guy Raz:Thank you so much. Thank you so much for your advice. Thank you.
37:54Alexa Hirschfeld:Thank you so much for calling in, Sari. The brand is called Sumo Yoga. Good luck. Thanks for calling in.
37:59Guy Raz:Thank you so much. Bye, guys. Bye, Alexa. Thank you. Thank you.
38:04Alexa Hirschfeld:Alexa, before I let you go, I want to ask you a question. I've been asking all the guests who come onto the advice line, which is if you could go back to 2009 when you and James started Paperless Post. And it's a great story. Everybody should check it out because you guys have had a lot of ups and downs and some crisis moments as well, especially around COVID. If you could go back to 2009 and give yourself advice on what you know now about how to run a business, what would have been helpful for you to know?
38:35Guy Raz:Yeah, I think that focus and always keeping the main thing, the main thing is a really important piece of advice. I think there are a lot of interesting ideas that can be distractions. Those can be experiments. I'm not saying don't experiment. There are a lot of scary things that happen like competitors or funding that doesn't come through or press that you don't like. And I think instead of looking over your shoulder too much at those risks or those threats, think about why do you exist? What do you offer to your customers or to your users, the people who need you and who need your product and who you want to serve?
39:20Guy Raz:And that's the main thing. And you have to just keep that in mind the whole time. You know, we the world has changed so much since we started, but I think we know very well who we serve to just stay focused on on what you know, what the main thing is. I think as as things evolve, you're it's a lot easier to roll with those changes and adapt. Yeah, for sure.
39:47Alexa Hirschfeld:Alexa, thank you so much for coming back on the show. It's great having you.
39:50Guy Raz:So great to see you again, Guy. Thank you so much.
39:53Alexa Hirschfeld:That's Paperless Post co-founder Alexa Hirschfeld. And by the way, if you haven't heard Alexa's original How I Built This Episode, go back and check it out. We'll put a link to it in the show notes. Thanks so much for listening to the show this week. And by the way, please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for free at GuyRoz.com or on Substack. And of course, if you are working on a business and you'd like to be on this show, send us a one-minute message that tells us a little bit about your business and the questions or issues that you're currently facing, because we would love to try and help you solve them.
40:24Alexa Hirschfeld:You can send us a voice memo at hibt at id.wondery.com or call us at 1-800-433-1298. Leave a message there and make sure to tell us how to reach you and we'll put all of this information in the podcast description as well. This episode was produced by Ramel Wood with music composed by Ramtina Rablui. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineers were Debbie Daughtry and Sina Lafredo. Our production staff also includes Casey Herman, Sam Paulson, Alex Chung, Chris Messini, Kerry Thompson, Catherine Seifer, Neva Grant, Noor Gill, and Elaine Coates. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to The Advice Line right here on How I Built This Lab.
From the publisher
Today’s callers: Jess from Washington seeks counsel on structuring a collaboration between her sympathy cards company and a pet products brand. Then, Caroline from Colorado wonders if she should build an in-house production team or outsource manufacturing for her decorative garland company. And Sayuri from California is looking to drive sales of her Japanese tatami mats through a unique approach to yoga practice.
Plus, Alexa shares how Paperless Post is responding to advancements in AI and the prevalence of post-pandemic loneliness.
Thank you to the founders of Five Dot Post, The Creative Garland Company, and Sumo Yoga for being a part of our show.
If you’d like to be featured on a future Advice Line episode—where Guy and former show guests take questions from early-stage founders—leave us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and a specific question you’d like answered. Send a voice memo to hibt@id.wondery.com or call 1-800-433-1298.
And be sure to listen to Paperless Post as told by Alexa and her brother James on the show in 2024.
This episode was produced by Rommel Wood with music by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineers were Debbie Daughtry and Cena Loffredo.
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