Advice Line with Ariel Kaye of Parachute Home

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1:26Hello and welcome to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show who will attempt with me to help you. And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Send us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. You can also send us a voice memo at hibt at id.wondery.com. And make sure to tell us how to reach you.

2:08And we'll put all this info in the podcast description. All right, let's get to it. Joining me this week is Arielle Kay. She's the founder of the bedding and home goods brand Parachute. Arielle, welcome back to the show. Thank you so much for having me. I'm glad to be back. It's so great having you back. You were first on the show last year in the fall of 2023. It's an awesome episode, obviously telling the story of how you created Parachute Home and how you were inspired by these direct-to-consumer brands like Warby Parker. And you, of course, started the brand in 2013. You'd never run a business before.

2:44You had worked in advertising. You didn't know much about textiles or manufacturing. And now you've got a brand that's like a leader in this kind of affordable luxury. And you got bed sheets and towels and rugs and pillows. You've done mattresses. You've even opened physical stores. So it was just an awesome story. It was so fun having you on. Thank you. It was great to share. Before we bring in our callers today to hopefully to help give them advice, I want to ask you a couple of questions. The first one, Ari, I want to ask you about was just some of the day-to-day or month-to-month or year-to-year decisions that you have to make.

3:22Like, for example, I know there was a time where you guys experimented with furniture, right? And I don't think you do furniture, much furniture anymore. Is that right? Correct. So when do you know, like when you, you know, introduce a new product or line, how much time do you give it before you decide whether it's not working? Or, you know, what is like the timeframe you kind of allow for? And when do you know it's time to kind of move on? It's a great question because, you know, and it depends, you know, for us, you know, we introduce new colors, we introduce new categories. Furniture was a unique example of a category that was very different than our core assortment.

4:03And so, you know, we gave it a go for about a year and we still do sell some bed frames, But it quickly just became clear that the supply chain, the logistics, the white glove delivery that brought strangers into the homes of our customers, there was a lot going on. And the margin profile. So it just it impacted our business dramatically in a way that, you know, we could have anticipated probably a bit more. But part of what, you know, being a founder or running a business is, you know, being comfortable taking some risks and knowing that they might not all land. Yeah, I'm curious about this, right?

4:43Because sometimes like you can't be risk averse if you if you're running a business, you have to accept certain level of risk, but you obviously want to mitigate that risk. And when something like that happens, you know, we've had – I mean Jim Cook was on the show, the founder of Boston Beer Company, several times. And, you know, sometimes they introduce beers and beverages that just don't work and that just kind of are duds. And we've had brands that have put in millions of dollars into launching something and it just doesn't work. How do you maintain your risk profile? Like how do you maintain this willingness to be risky even when other risks that you took failed?

5:19Like, how do you make sure that you're like, you don't become a person or a leader who's like, you know what, we cannot do that. We cannot take that risk. You know, we need to be comfortable with being uncomfortable. Yeah. And it's part of how you grow. I also think there are times and a place in a business where sticking to what you know best and being really focused on the core and the end-to-end experience for the customer is super important. and where risk, you know, might, it might not be the season for that. And so we've oscillated through different moments in the business where we're, you know, super bullish on taking a risk and trying something new and getting that feedback.

5:59And other times where we, you know, think to ourselves, this is, this is a great time to focus on bedding and bath and the products that we know our customers love and, you know, spend a little bit more time thinking about how we can try new things without such a big investment. Yeah. Arielle, what do you say we take our first call? Let's do it. All right, let's do it. Hello, caller. Welcome to the advice line on how I built this lab. How you doing, Guy? How you doing, Arielle? Hi. Hello. Hello, hello. Who is this? Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business.

6:35My name is Dane Brown. I'm calling from the Gold Coast, Queensland in Australia. I am the co-founder of a business called King Brown Pomade, or Pomade, as you probably say in the US. And we are a men's grooming brand, primarily focusing on hairstyling and most recently moving into hair health. Awesome. Okay. And what's your question for us today? We are up on our 10th year right now. We are a very wanted brand. We've always been more of a B2B business. We have international distribution, but we are self-funded. And right now, I'm stock rich and cash poor. So I know you've listened to Arielle's episode.

7:12She's done a lot of funding herself. And I'm just wondering, at this point in our business, should I be looking to get an investment, which we have had offered previously, but not by people in our field. So I didn't feel it was bringing anything to the table. So, yeah, any advice at this stage, 10 years on, would be great. All right. So 10 years, you started this in 2013. You're based on the Gold Coast of Australia. So that's like the tropics of Australia, right? Like you grow mangoes up there. It basically is, yes. We're an hour south of Brisbane. Okay. And right now, you're mainly selling to salons and barbershops and things like that?

7:47That's correct. Essentially, we're professional suppliers, so barbershops and salons, yes. And you do sell through your website too. I'm seeing it here, King Brown Pomade. You can order through the website. Yes, we do. It's always been a secondary focus for us. We always wanted to try and drive the consumer to the professional and to the stores. and create that long-term partnership. That was an initiative from day one. But obviously things have pivoted a lot in the last few years. So we are definitely trying to drive a bit more of a B2C business model. So you're not really sold in stores in Australia?

8:21Not fashion or retail stores, just strictly professional supply at barbershops and salons, yes. Got it. All right. Arielle. Yeah. Questions for Dane. So you said that you've had interest by investors in the past, but they weren't strategic. Yes. Talk to me a bit more about that. Did you go down through a process with any potential investors or? No, we didn't. We had interest just from capital investment groups here in Australia. Just once we did sort of start asking questions, they didn't actually have any experience or any distribution networks. I mean, ideally for a brand like ours, I would like investments from someone who maybe has some sort of distribution infrastructure already set up or a retail network that the brand could obviously be plugged into and then get some growth out of.

9:10But no, those investors didn't have those opportunities. So we felt it was, at that point, was not the right time to be giving away a slice of the pie. And basically, we could be missing out on investment from someone better suited. Tell me a little bit about the general market for these kinds of products. in Australia? When we launched back in 2014, there was not really many major competitors. If I'm honest, most of the brands were coming out of the US and being imported. So we saw that opportunity and we spent a year developing the brand and launched the market with good success here in Australia.

9:44And we were lucky to obviously be like many brands at that time on the rise and rise of the Instagram train. So we got international notoriety pretty quickly. There were so many brands in the marketplace and we've had multiple new products developed, but we've actually squashed them and moved into a higher price point product category and different product category with Hair Health just to try and pivot and differentiate our brand from what's in the market now. Even though we do have a good cult following, it's important to evolve and increase that order value for our brand as well. So we know that the market is about 31 % of men are thinning or concerned about it.

10:22So if they can do whatever they can, We've all seen the millions of TikToks and Instagram images of guys flying to Turkey to rebuild their hairline. So we're trying to basically get in there early and prevent guys having to do that. So, yeah, it's a direct-to-consumer subscription model is really where we see the value in that for our brand. I did not know guys were flying to Turkey to get their hairline. I learn something new every day. Yep. I've got to go on TikTok more. Three friends this week, I know, that have spoken to me about it. Wow. Three friends this week who are going to go to Turkey to get their hairline.

10:57Wow. I know. And so this hair thickening product is a new line, right? You've got the styling and the pomades and now thickening. And this could be a game changer. You're hoping it's going to be a game changer. Quick question for you. Is there a world where, I mean, your product is very masculine. You've got a snake on it. I like it. It's cool. King Brown. It's cool. I mean, this is clearly... That's a snake here in Australia. A King Brown is a snake. I got you. Okay. and see i again amazing um but is there is there is there a world where because i i think there's a world where hair thickening products could appeal to men and women is there is there are there products out there that are designed for i i don't know is is that a possibility yeah well if i'm honest most of my research i don't it's very rare that i look at the male market it's quite juvenile compared to what's happening in female hair care and that's what the money is Yeah, exactly right.

11:50And that's not only with the hair thickening, but also other products. We've taken a lot of our inspiration out of female products. So, look, I've sold probably half a dozen of these new release kits to women in the last couple of weeks. They just ask me to point blank because women ask you straight away. They're like, can I use that? And I'm like, yeah, 100%. It's got this and this and this, and they know the ingredients. Guys go, what's DHT and what's balding? I mean, I'm thinking you've got to rebrand or you've got to have another line called Queen Brown. Seriously. Yeah, there you go. Like Queen Brown, where you've got that product there, too, or a slightly differentiated version of it, because that's an issue that men and women face, thinning hair, right?

12:35And so that's one thing. The question I have, because I know you've come to us with a very specific question about money. I mean, I guess the question is, first of all, how badly do you need the cash? Do you need the capital? Our business model is the stock service program. So we funnel every dollar we get back into stock. And if I don't have stock, then my business is not doing its job. So we are sitting on a stockpile of both empty tins and filled stock. And look, I just know with money for marketing or an even point of sale in store, if I had a chunk of change I could put into that, it would probably help me penetrate the market and get the message wider, faster.

13:12stuff. So that's kind of where I keep looking at the capital investment thing. We've sort of exhausted a lot of our resources with bank finance and different things. And they're not offering, like I said, I would love someone who'd come in and just help me down to that level. Well, what I was thinking when you said before that you had had investors express interest in investing is, you know, you could take capital that's less strategic and hire someone who is incredible at distribution and hire two or three people to fill those roles that could help you, whether it's on the marketing front, thinking about D2C, how to get to consumers, how to create the content.

13:51There's so much education, it sounds like, in terms of the thickening product. And it seems like a great product for social media and bite-sized creation. I would say with the 10 years under your belt and a lot of data and proof of concept and a brand that seems to be beloved both in Australia and beyond. You have a story to tell. Dane, I mean, I also wonder about, like, what's the market opportunity? What's the market size in Australia? I mean, you mentioned that you've got distribution partners and you've got some overseas sales. I mean, Australia is a significant economy, right? I think the population is what, 30 million?

14:30It's 25 million. 25 million. Okay. So, I mean, do you feel like you need for this business to grow scale and succeed? You have to have a distribution channel outside of Australia as well, a significant one? No, I don't. To be honest, the business could be very – it could double, triple even within the Australian market quite easily just given the opportunity. But outside, the fact that we've diversified and gone outside just styling, it was something we've identified that was huge opportunity. So, no, I don't necessarily need to grow the business internationally to get the exponential growth. It's just market penetration and, I suppose, partnering up with the, whether that be pharmacy or the retail partners.

15:12I mean, there's opportunity, but I can now go and attack those markets. Well, I think what's interesting with this new product that you have and focusing that on D2C, it's going to bring people to your site and they're going to see the assortment. And I think creating different bundles and creating different opportunities for subscription and just getting people into your life cycle and into a regular purchasing pattern, which is the upside of products that run out, you know, could really help create opportunity throughout the entire product set. Yeah. Dane, what is your daily hair regimen? Just give me your quick regimen.

15:51To be honest, I own a hair company. I've got to put a bit of effort into it. So it's probably a bit more than the average guy. There's a bit of blow-drying, a bit of pre-styling, and then finishing off with it. Wow, thank you, man. I've got to represent. I have to. Yeah, you've got to represent. Yeah, absolutely. You've got to represent. Awesome. The brand is called King Brown Pomade Dane Brown in Queensland, Australia. Thanks so much for calling in, man. Thanks for listening to the show. I really appreciate you so much, guys. Thank you so much. And good luck. um yeah i mean i'm like i'm looking at you arielle and i know that your hair care regimen is much much more complex and time-consuming than mine right like like you you have to i mean because my wife she gets her hair blown out every you know like because she has long hair yeah and and and so it's just something that i just i'm like i need a haircut you know like i get a haircut every couple of weeks and then that's it.

16:48And I just like brought a shower and then I just put some stuff and I'm done. My hair is a big part of my identity. I mean, it's truly, you know, I have long, thick hair. You cannot use pomade in your hair. No. That would not be a good thing. No, it wouldn't work. But I do think that there's a lot of interesting stuff happening in the hair market. And I actually believe that that's a category that investors are very excited about. You know, beauty has been such a big category. And I think that the hair world is really getting a lot of attention right now. Yeah. All right, Arielle, we're going to take a quick break.

17:28But when we come back, another caller, another question, and another round of advice. I'm Guy Raz. Stick around. You're listening to The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab.

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21:23Welcome back to the Advice Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz. And let's go ahead and take another call. Caller, hello. Are you on the line? Hi, Guy and Arielle. Thank you so much for having me. Hello. Welcome. Please tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business. So my name is Deanna Blasi-Diandino. I'm calling from Wall Township, New Jersey. I am the founder of the Mindset Tapestry, which is an innovative emotional health tool for children that really builds on a positive mindset, increases self-esteem, and it's all done through affirmations, mirror talk, and caregiver support.

22:02Cool. And what's your question for us today? So I launched seven months ago and everything I had went into the inventory for this business. Now I'm realizing I have a product that I really need to educate consumers on and I don't have the funds for the marketing piece. And so my question is, how am I going to be scrappy in getting press for specifically holiday? Because I think that's a huge opportunity for my business to get on gift guides. if I don't have the funds to hire a PR agency. Yeah. Okay, cool. We'll get to your question in a moment. A bunch of questions for you. So this is a, so Mindset Tapestry, these are products for, to help develop sort of positive mental health, I guess, social, emotional learning skills for kids.

22:56And it's through these like daily affirmation practices. So tell me what, what are the products like, describe them for me. So I have one core product called the Mindset Tapestry. And what that is, is really a wall hanging. It can hang in the child's bedroom on your pantry door. It's a fabric with like pockets or? Yeah. So it has a mirror on the top and the child can look at themselves and recite those affirmations. Oh, it's a mirror on its... Okay. I got you. So the kid looks in the mirror and what are the affirmations? Is there like a guide with affirmations, like suggested affirmations? So there's a pull down flap.

23:32Okay. So the child rips one off every day, sticks it to the mirror. They're on like a Velcro or something. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And what are they, and what, like, yeah, what, what kind of affirmations? So I am strong. I am confident. I am resilient. I am safe. I have 30 of them, all developmentally appropriate for children age two plus really. And then there's a card pack that correlates to each affirmation tag. So there's a visual that I drew all the illustrations. And then on the back, it gives the parents like empowerment and education on like how to talk to their kids about what that means and some activities that they can do to kind of instill those affirmations in their child's life.

24:17And tell me, Deanna, how did this start? Because I guess you've started this a year ago or so. Like where did this idea come from? I'm a former special education teacher. I taught through the pandemic, actually all the while having my two babies. So really changed my perspective on really how early we start mental health practices, because I saw these children dealing with anxiety, depression at really young ages. And then that kind of got even more serious as I had my second son and went into a really bad, debilitating postpartum depression. And one of the techniques that pulled me out of that was me learning how to rewire my brain and looking in the mirror and talking to myself.

25:04So that's when the light bulb went off. And I said, why aren't we doing this for kids? Like, why aren't there tools? Why aren't schools doing this? Like, why are we not teaching such a simple thing to these children. So that's really what was the inspiration behind all of this. Obviously, and just, I think we all agree that we were, you know, like, postpartum depression and certain types of depression can be serious and sort of chemically driven and affirmations or meditation or exercise alone don't always help. But for many, many people, they can be transformational and and here's the thing a lot there are going to be people who hear this and i'm sure you've come across this too deanna who are like oh that's all hokey and that's all nonsense but the thing is is that affirmations i've come around on this they really do work and i'm you know i'm about to hit 50 so it's taking me a while but like that and also things like just meditation they do really work there is a physical like physiological like like exercise they really do work and so it's interesting that you know to take this approach basically to get kids to say i am strong uh to look in the mirror just to say that every day um i mean this is like goes back to like zig ziglar like these guys you know or or the power the the the power of positive thinking norman vincent peele like all these people who had these like tapes in this 50s and 60s they were basically saying you know repeat an affirmation or mantra Right.

26:40So there's something to that. Arielle, questions for Deanna? Well, I just think it's amazing what you've created. And as a mom of two young kids who is constantly thinking about the social emotional development of their children and just how to support them and how to give them the tools, I think that there is such an opportunity for this product. And I think that it's incredible what you've created. So thank you so much. Not a question, but a comment. You know, I have some ideas. I'm not sure we're ready to dive in. I'll take all of them. Yeah, we are. Yeah. About how to get how to get this into gift guides and press places.

27:18And Arielle, you did this early on. You got to the right editors with your products, which proved to be transformational for the business. My first job out of college was in PR, and I really do believe in the power of press. And I think that you're early on enough in this journey where you haven't had this big launch moment in the press. And I think, you know, just this, the whole mom influencer world has exploded over the past few years. I think especially throughout COVID as moms were struggling with how to take care of their children and to support through a really challenging time. You know, I hear you that, you know, budget is very tight and that there's not a lot of opportunity to invest.