Advice Line with Holly Thaggard of Supergoop!

26:03So that sink was frequently gross. It was actually on one of those, you know, push button timeout flossets where you could only run the water for two seconds. So we cut a pencil to length so we could jam it so the water would stay running our whole shave. Anyway, we were shaving in a less than ideal situation, which kind of made us think about ways we could make the shaving process better. And by the end of that deployment, we had an outline for what would eventually become the razor razor. So you're, I'm assuming you're an engineer by training. Yes, I get a trained engineer from the Naval Academy where I actually did a lot of hydraulics work.

26:37So the kind of transition into how water moves and flows through, it's really just a little positive displacement pump. It wasn't too difficult to make the leap from an engineering standpoint. But the key for us, we landed in San Diego. The public library there has an awesome maker space. So we were able to go after hours once we got off the ship and prototype designs for free in their facilities. So it was a crazy public resource that just was huge for us. It was great. And so now you've got this product out there. How did you finance it, by the way? Sure. So we actually took a tip from How I Built This in your episode with Christian from Uni.

27:14I love it. And launched on Kickstarter. Yeah, so we - The Uni pizza ovens. Exactly. Started on Kickstarter, yeah. I was literally listening to that episode while trying to figure out how I could make this thing at scale. And he said, I think this quote was, all you really need is a prototype to launch on Kickstarter. And I said, hey, I've got a prototype so we can do that. I love it. I love it. That's amazing. And how much did you raise? We raised almost$70 ,000. Our goal was$10 ,000, which we hit in two days. So we were blown away by the Kickstarter. It was great. Amazing. Congratulations. Well, congrats on that.

27:45Holly, I mean, what an awesome story. Two guys in the Navy deployed, want to solve a problem that they have. Now they've got a product. Any questions? Yeah, you know, I love the authenticity of the story of what you just described happened once, twice a day while you were in the Navy. And I think that sounds like it's the biggest problem you're solving for. I wonder if that could also translate to guys that are out camping. And I don't know if guys that camp actually care about shaving or not, but identifying a real targeted demographic who you're going to go after for this launch. Right. We recently thought of the van life market where maybe you're on Zoom calls where you need to be clean shaven.

28:36but you know, your water supply is limited. So it kind of like camping, but you need to shave, right? Yeah. You know, next year will be our 20th year as a brand. And so in 2005, nobody was wearing SPF every single day. And so, and I was early inspired to change consumer behavior by innovating in a category that was very sleepy and bringing products that didn't exist to market. And I think it was a real key to the success that we've had as a brand by starting with a very targeted demographic that we were going after. And, you know, I coined that demographic, a mindful explorer that was the right target for us because they sort of do things a little differently.

29:19And then I even further went down the path of where does that person shop? What do they do on the weekends? Do they have children? So identifying who that consumer is on a timeline is really important because obviously everyone has skin. It's our body's largest organ and you could go after the world, but you can't do that in a really powerful way if you're targeting everyone at the same time. Yeah. One of the thoughts I had was, because your question was, how do we market it without isolating other kinds of customers? And I don't know if that's going to be your challenge. I think I think what you really want to do is cast a wide net.

30:00Like it seems to me that, you know, there are different kinds of groups and organizations that you want to think about. So for stars, and I think the low hanging fruit is like water conservation groups. You know, I grew up in Southern California. And when I was a kid, we were all encouraged to buy low flow shower heads because I lived in, you know, in drought. Right. And it seems to me that there's an opportunity to look at water conservation groups. And a lot of these places will say, here are the Glow Flow shower heads you should buy. Here are the shaving flusher things you should buy. And the other side to it is to look at some really interesting and innovative hotels, hotel brands.

30:44Like you're in Philadelphia. That's where you're based? That's correct, yes. So I think they have one there, the Graduate Hotels chain. you know, Moxie, some of these kind of hipper hotel chains that are more attuned to water conservation, to environmental innovations. That's where I think you want to start just trying to connect with people and have those conversations because it's those first movers, especially young, environmentally conscious consumers that you have to reach from the get-go. Yeah, I think that's great. I would love if, you know, you requested a shaving kit from your hotel and a razor insert came with it.

31:21It would be amazing, right? And how much are they going to cost, by the way? So we're looking around$30 right now. So they were available on Kickstarter, you know, for the normal Kickstarter discount. But right now they're available for pre-order at$33. All right. A price point that you're going to have to bring down at some point, obviously, but understandable. There's potential to appeal to a certain type of consumer. You mentioned campers, which I think is interesting. I think of campers as having big shaggy beards. It's like one of our producers, Casey Herman, who's an amazing camper and has a big shaggy beard.

31:51But I do think that there is a – I kind of feel like we're in a beard transition. I don't know. I feel like we're seeing more guys shave. I don't know. Maybe that's just me. And then I wonder, too, you know, I think of that website Uncrate that has all the gear for men. Oh, yeah. They're all very different that I always just like scan before holidays and that kind of thing. Such a cool site. Uncrate Supply, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think as you build out your website and you kind of – you'll move on from the stage of talking about Kickstarter to becoming a real product and a brand, a good gadget, a cool gadget that has a specific audience.

32:31Another thought I had was just looking at your website, which is you guys tell – you scroll down, you tell the story, and it's you and Matt. this is a picture of the two of you. I think there's an argument to be made that you guys put the photos of the two of you in your uniforms on there, like your official Navy. I think you're allowed to do that. And just to put that up there and say, we met, you know, and kind of make that story a little bit funnier and snappier. Like we roomed together during our six month probably deployment, right? And shaving was a pain. And we solved the problem for us and for, you know, the other guys on the ship by coming up with this thing.

33:06And you kind of make it this, I don't know, like a Wes Anderson's kind of look, you know, like, you know, you guys with your uniforms and just, you know, because there's an earnestness that I think a lot of people will love when they find out about this story. And it's a real story. Right. Don't forget, it's the reason this product exists. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. The company is called The Clean Shave Company. Andy Camp is co-founder. Andy, good luck. Thank you guys both so much for your time. I appreciate it. Thanks for calling in. That uncrate idea is kind of cool, right? You can imagine like, hey, let me have my dram of whiskey and my Seiko watch and a shave and save water.

33:47It's such a good site. It's such a, I don't know where they find all of their things, but. Yeah, you probably have to pay a lot of money to get on there, I would imagine. But still, you know, it's a, yeah, it's a tastemaker site. So, but it's a cool product. He's going to have to, Holly, he's going to down the road. they're going to have to create a product line. You can't build a business on just this one niche product. They're going to have to think of their brand as shaving across the board and different innovative ways to kind of lean into that. Solve problems. And I thought that was a really good idea to lean into those hotels and resorts that do have the water preservation mission as part of their own story.

34:29Yeah. Palm Springs, Las Vegas, right? Every time I go to those places, they're like, Like every time there's like signs, it's like every time you turn on the tap, you're making our situation worse. And I'm always like, OK, I'm just not going to use the sink here. We're going to take another quick break here. But when we come back, a device that can make water sports safer and possibly more stylish as well. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to the Advice Line on how I built this lab.

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37:07Hey, welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. So today my guest is founder of Supergoop, Holly Thaggard, and together we are trying to answer your questions about how to find the right consumer and tell them about your product. All right, let's bring in our next caller. Hello, caller. Welcome to the advice line. Hi, Guy. Hi, Holly. Thank you so much for having me. Hello. Hello. Well, please tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a bit about your business. Yes. So my name is Erin McLaughlin. I am calling from Hinsdale, Illinois. I am the founder and CEO of Flaguard, which is an innovative water safety device dedicated to enhancing visibility to children who have fallen into the water.

37:53Amazing. Okay. And what's your question for us today? Okay. So my question is, I feel like I'm selling a product that addresses a serious problem people don't necessarily realize exists. How do I convince the customer that people being hit by a boat is a serious issue? And how do I bring awareness and education around the importance of wearing something highly visible and automatic so boats could see them. Amazing. Okay, Holly, this is a perfect question for you because you went through a version of this with sunscreen 20 years ago. But before we get to you, Erin, just a couple of questions about this product.

38:31Explain how it works. It's like a life vest that a kid wears. And when they fall into the water, like a flag deploys, like sort of like an airbag in a car. It's like a colorful flag that boats can see that someone's in the water? Okay, yes. So flag guard attaches onto the back of your existing life jacket. Okay. When a child falls into the water, a highly visible orange flag will pop up over their head, making them more visible to oncoming boats or to rescuers. Got it. Okay. How did this idea come about? So one day we were out boating with my six children and we were tubing and my daughter fell off of the tube and was almost hit by an oncoming boat.

39:12And so that, you know, highlighted the need to create something that would make children more visible in the water. And so you come up with this idea. And is that airbag kind of analogy fair? I mean, that basically the water triggers this flag to pop up? Yes. So the system is foolproof because it relies on the pressure from the water to deploy this bright orange flag. As soon as they fall into the water, the flag will automatically pop up over their head. And as they get back on the boat or on the tube or up on their skis, the flag automatically goes down to its resting position. Amazing. Okay.

39:47So you have invented this product. First of all, when did you create this? When did you start this business? So it was something that I thought about for a long time. However, life got in the way. And during COVID, I really took the time to bring it to fruition. And I just brought it to market in January of 2023. Congrats. Are you an engineer or did you find a concept? No, no, no. I'm not an engineer at all. I'm just a mother of six children. And I knew that keeping our children safe and seen in the water was a really big issue for me. And I don't know, it just, it came to be, I sell real estate and now I'm selling real estate part-time to help fund Flaggard.

40:34And you found somebody who could help you design it. You had the concept and you found somebody who helped you design it? Yes. So I went through, oh my gosh, it took me so long to get this. I did so many prototypes and talked to so many designers. So it was a long road. And finally, I brought it to market. All right. Now it's available through your website or is it also in stores? It is available on my website at flaggard.net. It's also available on Amazon. It is in over 30 marinas. And that's from me loading them up in my truck and driving to the marinas. I attend boat shows with the help of my children.

41:17And I'm doing cold calling. Amazing. Okay. So you are trying to figure out how do you get people to understand that when your kid goes in the water, they should be wearing this. Like they, this should be like anything else. Like if you put the life jacket on, you're going to go water skiing. This thing should also be on just like you put your swimsuit on. Yes. All right. Holly Thaggard, you got, we need you in this conversation now. Do you have patents on this? Yes. So Flaggart is a registered trademark and I also have four patents that have been issued. Yeah. I mean, very similar experience. You know, in 2005, people didn't know that they needed SPF every single day.

41:58They believe Sunday much only happened at the beach. And so we still have a big job to do in education. You're going to have education at the foundation of your brand for its entirety. I think, you know, your competition very much like mine is in activity. People weren't wearing SPF and life jackets out there are not, they don't have a flag attached. So, you know, I mean, I think the good news is that you're passionate because of your child's experience. And I think that passion is what's going to fuel you figuring it out as you have to pivot your way through building this. You know, I personally was inspired to change consumer behavior by being inspirational, not scary.

42:40It's one of the most difficult things to do ever is change consumer behavior. And so, you know, I'd rather lean into creating innovation and beautiful products that help make the world want to change their consumer behavior. For me, I want them to crave wearing triple prep or crave putting unseen sunscreen on. So when I look initially at your social media and even your website, I do think there's a little bit of a scary vibe going on that can possibly lose people versus thinking about boating safety. Let the award you won in 2024, I think I read you won a Boating Innovation Award. Yes. That was for innovation because this hasn't been done before.

43:22So let those awards speak for themselves in the credibility that this product is needed. And then bring in a copywriter to kind of shorten your taglines. I loved, I think you said, what was it? Safe and seen. Yeah, safe and seen. But it's not as impactful when you partner it with, let's help protect our children so they're safe and seen. So if I just put my marketing hat on, I would say safe and seen. Yeah, that's a great idea. You know, it makes me think about a huge change in consumer behavior of the last 20 years, which is in skiing and snowboarding. When I was a little kid, nobody wore helmets skiing.

44:03Nobody. It was just weirdos did. Today, you're a complete weirdo if you don't wear a helmet. Yes, and also guy for bike riding. I never wore a bike helmet growing up. And by the way, you're starting to see more and more people in water sports, surfing, and even water skiing do the same thing. I wonder – so part of that is just it's just cool to do it because it's smart. And I can imagine like on your website just a video of people having – like the video is a people – you know, of somebody water skiing or tubing and falling off. And that's cool. But maybe even more leaning into that fun side of it, because to me, it seems like there are all kinds of cool things you could do with this.

44:45Like you could not just have the flagship product, but you could make helmets that also deploy a flag or that are really brightly colored. So the whole idea is that it's not just about the flag. It's about making you visible in the water. And there's so much cool stuff you could do around that with colors and designs. Might not even be a flag. Exactly. And you could still call it flag guard. Oh, what would you mean by that? When you look at the mountains skiing, children don't have just a plain helmet on. They have crazy things going on. Mohawk helmets. Okay. Yeah. But that's when it's fun. And that's when you have kids asking for it.

45:27Yeah. Yeah. Do you know the other thing I think of, Aaron, is that this isn't just a product for kids. I think that you should really consider marketing this to everyone, not keep kids safe. But, hey, everybody wants a water skier to go tubing. You know, once you fall in, you're just seeing a head bobbing up and down. It doesn't matter who you are. It's hard to see. And so we should all – like this is something that everybody should have on. You know, you want to be bright. It's like running, right? Again, running. 20 years ago, people would run at night and they'd get hit by cars. Now, it's very rare for me to see somebody running at night without wearing reflective gear.

46:08It's not about, you know, I think when people go running, they're like, okay, I don't want to die tonight. They're just like, I want to be smart and be seen, you know, and visible. Obviously, they don't want to die, you know, either. But that's what makes it normal. You know, I also think about, I would imagine your vision is to have these attached to every life jacket in the world, right? Yes. And so I think, is there a possibility of a licensing with a jacket, a life jacket idea in there? Yes, I did think of that, but I never pursued it. I think we're having a conversation with maybe whoever the leading, is it O 'Neill or whoever the leading life jacket brand is?

46:50Or maybe it's a flag guard life jacket. Well, that's my next thing. So what I eventually want to do is to have the flag guard that's already built into the life jacket. I do have a prototype for that. Nice. That's great. I did not bring it. It has to be Coast Guard approved, which I have not started the process for that yet because it is very expensive. Dive into that. Really? And then go to the boat shows. and go to the, I know there's trade shows everywhere for active and surf shows and all of that. I mean. But this is a good start. I mean, what you have here is exactly what you should be doing.

47:26You've got the product out there. People can see how it works. And then over time, you know, maybe you do introduce helmets or you do introduce a life vest. I have a tactical thought for you, which might be a little weird, but I wonder, maybe there's a world where you fought, Like you'd work with your local state representative, right, where you are in Illinois, and you start to say, hey, we should make this a requirement that kids under 13, when they go to a water ski, have to have a device like this attached to them for visibility. I don't know. Maybe something like that. You create like a regulation that's a requirement, and then boom.

48:05Use that award that you got as the conversation starter. Yes, I love that idea because that's also what I would like to do is to get where it is mandatory to have that on the back of your life jacket for certain ages. And then, Holly, you were saying about a scary vibe could lose people. Make it playful. I looked at a few of your Instagram posts and they're very... Alarmist or... Yeah, and they're just very... Scary. You know, this is an amazing thing that you can like make fun and playful. And I think I love the safe and seen, but say it joyfully. And I know it was a scary experience for you, but like, this is exciting.

48:48You've created innovation that doesn't exist. So let's make everything more exciting and fun. Okay, great. I mean, after all, this is the kid's ticket to getting outside and riding a boat and skiing and surfing. This is like, and I feel the same way about SPF. My children grew up with it, of course, on the changing table, having sunscreen massages. So we started out applying sunscreen with massages. That's how fun it was in our house. And having a pump by the front door and the back door just meant my son was going to get out on his bike faster. We don't ever talk about the scary skin cancer and what can happen from not wearing SPF.

49:24Yes, that makes so much sense. Thank you. Erin McLaughlin, thank you so much. The brand is called Flag Guard. Thank you for calling in. Good luck. It's such a cool product. And we're cheering you on. We'll be following your progress. Oh my God, you guys, this was great. Thank you so much for the advice. Thanks for calling in. I think people should wear helmets water skiing. Is that weird? Is that controversial? I think it's, I mean, I'm all about safety. Right? I mean... What about surfing? That surfboard kicks back up. Yeah. And I've seen it more and more in California. I see more and more people wearing helmets.

49:58And I think in 10, 20 years, it's just, we're going to look back and be like, people didn't wear helmets surfing. That was, it's like skiing. Yeah, we're going to think of those tanning beds as like torture chambers. Oh my God, yeah. They're one of those. A lot of women have. And I think that fast forward 25, 30 years and people are really going to look back and go, wait, you got in a bed that fried you? Well, Holly, I hope talking to all these early stage founders didn't give you PTSD about all the struggles and like the setbacks and the stress because it's really stressful, as you know, and as we know from all the hundreds of guests we've had on the show.

50:37But hopefully some of this advice will be helpful. You know, I mean, hopefully we'll find out. We'll follow up with them. We'll follow up. And, you know, they're at a very fun stage in their brand. And I can say that now 20 years later because building and creating, and I think entrepreneurs and founders love to build and create. And the most building and creating to do is in these early stage days. And so it's very exciting for them. Holly, what I always say, and our regular listeners have heard me say a version of this, is that there are no shortcuts in starting a business. The only shortcut is in learning from mistakes that others have made so then you might avoid them yourself.

51:15And that's really what how I built this is. It's like a compendium of mistakes. And the idea and we just heard from one of our callers who actually heard it got an idea, right, that they heard about this Kickstarter that that uni started and that inspired them to do the same thing. If you're if you were able to like go back in time to, you know, younger Holly Thaggard in 2005 and whisper in her ear and be like, here's what you should know, because I'm coming from the future. What would you tell her? I say this very honestly, I wouldn't change a thing. I would trust your gut and find the help you need.

51:52This is all advice I had though growing up and being the daughter of two entrepreneurs. These are things that were very instinctual for me. And I think for a lot of entrepreneurs and founders, trusting your gut is an easy thing to do. And realize that you may not always know why something happens at the moment that it's happening, but one day it will come full circle. And I'm sure there's still full circle things that are going to happen in the next 20 years because this brand's not going anywhere. So the answers will happen and they'll unfold naturally as they should for the brand. Holly Thaggard, founder of Supergoop.

52:30Thanks so much for coming on to the advice line. It was awesome having you back on the show. Great visiting with you guys. Thanks so much for having me. This was so much fun. And by the way, if you all have not heard Holly's original How I Built This episode, you have to go back and check it out. You can find a link to it in the podcast description, so just check it out on your smartphone. But here's one of my favorite moments from that interview. I had created these sunscreen swipes, and apparently the swipes were a huge hit. So I would go around to stores during that period, and the swipes were always gone.

53:05They were just wiped off the shelf. But the problem was I knew that my sales couldn't be great if there were no products on the shelf. And so I'd go into as many stores as I could with swipes in my bag and literally like stock the shelves. Like I'd give them product, which is crazy, right? Hey, thanks so much for listening to the show this week. Please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for free at GuyRoz.com. Each week, I put together tons of insights from entrepreneurs and my own observations from interviewing some of the greatest founders in the world on this show.

53:43And also, if you're working on a business and you'd like to ask us a question, send us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and the issues that you would like some help with. Make sure to tell us how to reach you, and hopefully we can give you some helpful advice. You can send us a voice memo at hibt at id.wondery.com or call us at 1-800-433-1298 and leave a message there. And we'll put all of this in the podcast description as well. This episode was produced by JC Howard with music composed by Ramtin Arablewe. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Gilly Moon.

54:21Our production team also includes Alex Chung, Carla Estevez, Casey Herman, Chris Messini, Elaine Coates, Catherine Seifer, Kerry Thompson, Sam Paulson, and Neva Grant. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab.

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