Advice Line with Lara Merriken of LÄRABAR

28:09And so it was quite a ride, learned a lot. We kind of got some guidance from the buyer in terms of how to package this for the candy aisle, which ended up hurting us just logistically. Put you in the candy aisle? Yes, correct. And is that where you want it to be? Did you want this product to be alongside just regular chewing gum and candy? Originally, we did. We did. It was either that or the sports section. But, you know, it ended up being a pretty big issue. And we're back online. I am still fighting to get into stores. I mean, awesome that you had that opportunity. And you learned a lot from that.

28:49But basically, people were confused. Like, what is this? Is it a supplement? But it was in the candy section, a lot of confusion. Before I get to Laura, what's the question you have for us? Right. So it's actually based on what I just talked about. Just a little bit of background. Since we left Walmart, we've tripled our sales online, more than tripled our sales online. We continue to grow the brand. The category itself is growing. There's data behind this. And yet we're having trouble getting our foot in the door with some of these major buyers. I understand they're inundated, but my question would be that.

29:27How do you get your foot in these doors? Yeah. Laura American, a lot to unpack here. This is a cool, cool idea. What are your thoughts on this? Well, first of all, I think it's a very innovative product. And I like that you've taken gum and caffeine because it's a very easy to use product for people, right? Gums everywhere, caffeine's everywhere in the form of coffee mainly and energy drinks. And my question to you is, where are people going to buy this? I was thinking as you were talking, where would I go to buy this? But what are you finding out about the marketplace right now? It's a great question.

30:12Some of the stores that we're in have put us actually next to energy drinks as well. It sells well in those places. we haven't had many people put in the supplement section um and then we have had people put it in the candy section so in terms of just trying to figure out you know where it sells more and obviously that's a function also of is there enough shelf space to put a product like this because you know energy drinks in that section is very full so we've had to find ways around it we actually started selling them in like clips so you can hang the bags you don't have to move anything So Mariano, what is the competitive landscape like?

30:51Because there have to be other caffeine gum brands out there. Absolutely. Yes. There's a couple other brands, big, big brands. They've done a great job. I will say that when I started looking into this stuff, the problem I had was I didn't like, it didn't feel like gum. Oil is so expensive. And one of the things we really wanted to do with this gum is we did put a lot of caffeine into each piece. We put 125 milligrams of caffeine per piece. So it's more than what I'm seeing from the competitors. They have like 50 to 60 grams. Correct. And our goal was like, we want you when you chew this and that you feel it.

31:32Like you are ready to go, ready to take on anything that's going on in the day. And that was our goal. So just for the listeners, 125 milligrams of caffeine is equivalent to about a cup and a quarter of coffee. So we really wanted that to be a differentiator. Yeah, you're packing a punch, right? So that to me is a competitive advantage over what's going on in the marketplace and why somebody would want to bring you in to compete with somebody else. Correct. Also, another big thing we have going for us, we're cheaper. Yeah. That was done absolutely by design. When we saw what the pricing was out there, we were just like, why would anyone pay this much?

32:16Because at the end of the day, we're going to be compared to chewing gum, right? So why would anyone pay so much more for chewing gum? I understand as caffeine, there's definitely a value add there. But to be paying 10, 15 times with normal chewing gum, I didn't think that was right. So one of the things we really set out to do was provide a better product with more caffeine at a lower, more affordable price. You know, one of the things that I think is interesting about the opportunity here is that everything that you've talked about, you've told us here in this conversation, is not reflected in the product when you see it on the shelves.

32:55Like where you want to start in the storytelling side of it is with the packaging and with your whole kind of theme on your website. It says world's strongest caffeine gum, but what does that tell me? It doesn't tell me anything. I need to understand all the things you just told me. in just a few words, right from the get-go, on the packaging, on the website, in your brand Bible that clearly, you know, you haven't put together and you should put together because it's going to really help you. I would agree. I had the same issue. So when I started Larabar, it was, you know, fruit and nuts. And nuts have a lot of fat in them.

33:31And people would freak out about the fat. And I would have to figure out. Yes. Good fat. It is. You need that fat. At the time, no one was on that bandwagon, Guy. Nobody had educated us. And so I had to, as a company, lead the way. And I had to articulate it in a way that it was fun for people and interesting. And they felt like they knew something. So as Guy was pointing out, if you want people to pick your product up, you've got to make it compelling. Why is gum and caffeine compelling? right and then I'm going to go back to you're talking about they want to put you in the candy aisle I had the exact same problem I remember we were getting into a major retailer and at the time I wasn't clear about where I saw Larabar and they decided out of nowhere to put it near candy bars that would have been the kiss of death for us in terms of going straight out of that store because we didn't belong with candy bars we were a nutrition bar a healthier version kind of indulgent and delicious.

34:34And I really pushed back and we didn't end up going into that retailer, which was a good thing because you have to be in the right spot where people are actually going to find you. Absolutely, absolutely critical point here, I think, which is sometimes even when the opportunity seems amazing, you've got to stick to your principles and your vision around this product, right? Like this is not candy. To me, I mean, this is something that you would discover to GNC, right? Or in the protein powders aisle at Whole Foods. And where I think you have an opportunity, right? You've got 125 grams of caffeine.

35:14That's 30 grams more than the cup of coffee. And to me, it's like you could have a tagline on your bag that literally says, you know, rocket fuel for your workout. You know, I understand you're trying to reach people, Uber drivers and nighttime people and hospital workers, but maybe you want to just start by focusing on one of those categories and the other ones may follow naturally. It's like you start with a tribe. Laura started with hikers. Now Laura Bar is consumed by, it's a mass consumption product. What do you think, Laura? And you can disagree with me, Laura. You can tell me that I'm full of it.

35:54You're not full of it. You have great ideas, guys. You're a natural entrepreneur. I think it's very smart, like little test groups. You can test the Uber drivers, you can test the athletes, you can do your own little focus groups and figure out who's using it and why they're using it. What is it doing for them? If you lead with curiosity, people will tell you a lot. And I would also say that people do know what caffeine is, but they don't know, right? They know they go to, say, Starbucks to get their coffee or the coffee shop. But what are you offering that's different than that? Like, how can you replace that?

36:35Like, for Larabar, it was portable food, right? You're eating real food still, but you're on the go and you still have that quality there. Right, right. Yeah, simple messages, simple value proposition, feel your workout, whatever it says, but simple few words on there. that tells me what it is because Max doesn't do it. Caffeine gum is not enough. Okay, perfect. I appreciate the advice, guys. Thanks for calling in, Mariano. The product is called Max Caffeine Gum. Good luck, man. Thanks for calling in. Thank you. I appreciate it. Bye. Bye. I mean, I think I'm going to try this. I'm definitely going to try this.

37:20I am too. I love tea. I love coffee. But I think there's a great market for this. It's just a matter of connecting with people, right? Yeah. All right, let's take another quick break, but we'll be right back with another caller. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to The Advice Line right here on How I Built This Lab.

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40:04Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz, and today I'm taking calls with Lara Merican. Lara, what do you say? Let's bring on another caller. That sounds great. All right, let's bring in our next caller. Hello, welcome to the show. Hello, thank you for having me on the show. I'm so excited. I can tell. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business. Okay, my name is Loretta Nkwacha. I am the founder of Loretta's British Ginger Tea. It is a New York-based company, and I am currently in Costa Rica. And Loretta's British Ginger Tea is a blend of unique, proprietary, functional ginger-based beverages.

40:47Okay, so let's kind of break this down. So this is ginger tea made with ginger root. Like it's strong and spicy, right? Like it clears your sinuses kind of ginger. It is so strong and spicy. I mean, I give the option on the bottle on the label that if it is too much, you can water it down with, you know, so that you don't get the potency, but you still get the health benefits. And you can have it hot because we Brits, we love to have our tea hot and we have several cups a day. So I actually drink it hot. And then on the weekend, I drink it cold straight out of the fridge with a bit of tequila.

41:25So, Laura, how did you tell me about the idea behind the product? I mean, were you in food and beverage? What were you doing? How did you start this thing? Or why? Darling, darling, I'm not even in any, like I don't come from business. The only business I came from was show business. I am an actor and singer and I've done it pretty much my whole life. I went to the Royal Central School of Speech and Drama in London, the same school that Judi Dench went to. Oh, okay. So, yeah. Anyway, so then, okay. Okay, fast forward 2009. I'm pregnant with my first child in New York. And like many women, I had awful, dreadful morning sickness.

42:08Now, morning sickness is supposed to last for the morning, for maybe the first trimester, i.e. the first three months. Yes. Now, mine went on all day for about six months. Oh my gosh. Yeah, marvelous. So what I did was my doctor said that ginger is really helpful to kind of quell the nausea. So I would sip on ginger ale. I'm not really a soda person, but I would sip on this thing. And it helped a little bit. Fast forward five years. I'm pregnant now with my second child in 2014. I said, you know what? I know what to expect this time. I'm not bloody going to drink ginger ale. I'm going to find something else that's going to help.

42:42My doctor recommended that I take anti-nausea medication. I said, no way. I'm making a human. I don't want medication. No. Yeah. She suggested ginger candy. I said, OK, let me give it a try. It was basically sugar. I thought, well, I don't need diabetes when I'm pregnant. So no. So I, my husband, God bless his soul. My husband was the one who said, listen, why don't I just go to the store, pick up some ginger root. You can slice it up and make your own. And that was the first time I'd ever set my eyes on ginger root. So I sliced it up, boiled it up. It worked. It was amazing. And I loved the way that it tasted.

43:22So I would drink it every single day. It helped with the nausea. And I've been drinking it every single day since 2014 when I made this. I love this. And by the way, ginger, also anti-inflammatory. It's a great and it's just an amazing route. You just it's so there's so many things you can do with it. OK, so this clearly has helped was helping you. And then at what point did you say, you know, I'm going to turn this into a business. I'm going to bottle this up and try and sell this. well i've got my sister helen to thank for that because basically i would make batches of tea when any of my friends would get sick i knew that ginger was helpful for you know calls and flu so i'd make them a batch deliver it to their house for free so my sister saw me making these little mini bottles they're very cute little things showing you how to make um a hot toddy so a little bit of uh brandy whiskey and my ginger tea yummy so she was like hello she was like laurie why do you keep giving this away why aren't you selling this I said okay um I don't know anything about business why would I start because I don't know research it I was okay I did it September 2021 I made my first sale in the farmer's market in my little town of Babylon Long Island New York and so I then managed to basically take bottles and go to various stores all the sort of health food stores and it had to be refrigerated the shelf life was so short like six weeks so I had to realize that, okay, I have to do something to extend the shelf life if it's possible and also get it out of the fridges.

44:52So I took everything off the shelves literally a few months ago while I started working on fundraising to try and figure out a way to have it formulated. So you haven't been able to figure this out yet. You're still at this point where you're trying to figure out how to make it shelf stable or how to make it last longer, right? Yeah. And also get out of plastic bottles. It doesn't align with what I'm trying to give people this helpful, healthful drink. I love this. I love this. Okay. So, and, and is, are those basically your questions? Like, how do I figure this out? Or do you have an additional question?

45:23Well, my question is, how the bloody hell do I fundraise when it's, it's tough to, you know, I've applied for so many grants, pitching events, all of that stuff. But how do you fundraise effectively when you're just doing everything yourself? Yeah. And can, can you give us a rough estimate of how much you put in already? Like several thousand dollars? $25 ,000. Right. Okay. So, I mean, that's not an inconsiderable amount of money. And obviously, you've got something worth pursuing. But here's where you have a massive competitive advantage versus every micro brand out there in all categories. You are an actor.

46:05You have a background in acting. You have incredible charisma. You are just a very – there's an infectious quality to your personality. And to me, it feels like you can really use those qualities to build this brand up slowly and methodically. One simple idea, I thought, for funding is to try crowdfunding. I just tried it. I just launched my iFundWomen. iFundWomen, I just launched it. Kickstarter failed terribly because I didn't have instruction as to what to do once I set the page up. But then try it again or try a different one. But you're trying one because everything you've said here is so interesting.

46:45It makes so much sense. It's the story. It's the product. It's what it's done for you. I mean, this really helped you in your pregnancy. What a great way to start marketing or telling a story around a product. And so that's where I think you have an opportunity to start to raise a little bit of cash and to see if you can, you know, maybe raise another 20, 25 grand and find, you know, hopefully other people who can help you kind of begin to take this to the next level. And do you trust, I mean, Lara, I know you were also doing this by yourself. So how, how do you trust that you're even doing what you're supposed to be doing and not wasting time on things that you're not supposed to be doing because you don't have the other, the other eyes and ears on you or working with you to say, listen, no, that's no good.

47:36Let's try this instead. Like right now, this is a great group for me. I can, you know, this is great education, but I don't have that every day. So how do you do that? You know, I really led with optimism and I was really passionate as you are. And that passion and optimism is future and forward thinking. Yes. Is really what it's about. I actually just got a degree in that, in positive psychology. and because I'm so curious about your second life and career we haven't even talked about you know I know and I because I'm just so interested in what about the human condition and what compels us as human beings and I think entrepreneurs are very forward and future thinking people and so to Guy's point about you you've got it I face those same peaks and those same valleys that you're going through right now which is why am I going to do this why I mean when at the time I had my idea.

48:33Everybody thought I was completely out of my mind. I was dealing with an oversaturated category, which it still is today, yet there was still room for something new and different. So there is always a way, right? If there's a will, there's a way, and you've got it going on. And there's so many ways to really push this out. Cold and flu season, just a sipping beverage, up. Anti-inflammatory. I mean, as we speak today, the New York Times has an article about anti-inflammatory foods, and I believe ginger is right on the front of that article. Yeah, of course it is. And even for like, you know, at one point I was talking to someone about trying to maybe get into the hospital, you know, the shops in hospitals because of cancer patients my mother died in 2006 from stomach cancer and watching the effects of chemotherapy and nausea is a huge side effect of it huge right and it just it depletes your energy it just it kills you literally right and I just thought my god if I had if this had come across my path my my brain when my mother was still alive this would have helped her enormously yes It won't cure cancer, but it would help those after effects.

49:49I can't scream it loud enough from any mountaintop. The fact that I drink this every day, literally the minute it touches my mouth, I'm like, oh, every day, every day. It just chills you. Yeah, I think it's a great idea. One of the ways to do it is you start with who you know. You start with literally your closest friends, and you just ask them, can you put in$500? Can you put in$1 ,000? You go to, you know, if there's a community group that you're in, if there's parents at school and you just you have to put yourself out there. No big deal. If you know, it's a lot. It's a big ask. But I'm trying to raise money and you'll have equity.

50:28You'll have a stake in this thing. And I really believe in it. And I'm I'm trying to raise about 20, 25 grand to go go to the next phase of it. It's that discomfort of asking people for money. Like I'll ask a stranger if I have to, but with my friend group and whatever, you know, I'm the one that kind of helps with advice and, you know, and sort of wisdom, et cetera, et cetera. Thanks to my mommy. I very rarely ask for help in that sense. Like to ask you for money, I'm the one that will lend you the money. So how do I, I was just thinking while you're talking, do I just pretend I'm a different character and to ask them for money?

51:07And that makes me even thinking, I'm stuttering. Laura, let's put on your positive psychology degree here. Yes, yes, please. Asking is hard. Asking is very hard for a lot of people. It's very hard. It's hard for me, I'll be honest with you. But I do think that if there's one thing I've seen in almost 700 episodes of how I built this is that virtually every entrepreneur on the show has figured out how to get over that and how to ask for help. Laura? It's so true. It's just it's creating a new habit. I mean, you're asking for feedback right now. You've already taken a huge step. You're on this program.

51:45You've already asked. Like you have it in you to do it, right? And you just have to just little steps, one thing at a time, right? You're not going to get to the top of the mountain tomorrow, but one little ask at a time. Everybody has their own way of asking, right? Like I agree. I don't like asking either, but I like to be like a natural fit, right? Like I like to connect with people because it, it just like, we have a similar thing. And I did that with the, with the stores. When I got in the stores, I was like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna knock down the doors of people that don't believe in me, but I'm going to go where the energy is flowing.

52:22Right. The people that believe in me and, and people like that. So that's what I would do. I mean, if you don't ask, you never know. I know. And if you don't ask, you don't get, oh, I have all those. I mean, like, ooh. Okay. All right. You got this. You got this. Loretta's British ginger tea. Look for it. Look for it in your stores one day. Loretta, congrats. Good luck. We're cheering you on. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So great to meet you. You too. So, Laura, we are at the end of another episode of Advice Line. And it's so cool to hear. One of my favorite things, and I mean, I'd be lying if I didn't say it was one of my favorite things, is when people call in or people stop me at airports or wherever, and they're like, I listen to this show every day building my business.

53:17It's so heartening because that's why we do it. That's why we brought you on all those years ago. We do it for that reason, to give people the energy to keep going when it's hard. Yeah, I think we all need inspiration. I'm still inspired by this show. I'm an entrepreneur and I listen to these episodes and every time I learn something, I learn it. I love learning new things and understanding how there's a lot of different ways to get there. Yeah. And I should mention, you are embarking on a new chapter in your life. I mean, you built and scaled a successful company and brand. You've been an investor and a mentor.

53:54I know you were doing that for a long time, still do a lot of that. But you, on the side, went on and did like a graduate degree in psychology, right? I did. It was typical of me on a whim. You know, just like Laura Bride and Planet, and I had my undergrad in psych, and I was a social worker many years ago. And then I got into this program, and then I started dissecting, how did I get to where I was as an entrepreneur using grit and resilience, perseverance, optimism, all of that stuff. And I just realized, like, this is where I really want to put my energy and how I want to help people using those, you know, these core concepts.

54:34It's so cool. Congrats. And so tell me a little bit about how you're thinking about doing that. Well, it's early stages, Guy. But one of the ways is really coaching people. I think that I've learned I've done a lot of that myself. And it really helps me. And when you, you know, coaching is about leading with curiosity and really asking people those questions. I mean, you're very good at that on your show. You're curious. You ask people really crucial questions that get them to think. And so I'm starting an organization with a cohort member of mine. And we're going to do educational pieces and coaching and just make it really fun and approachable.

55:18As entrepreneurs, you know, we, it's not just the business prowess. It's the psychology behind it. How do you get up every day? You know, Loretta, like, how do you keep going when you're faced with an obstacle? What do you do? How do you get the inspiration? How do you reach out when you don't feel like you want to reach out? Yeah. You know, I think we all need that support. Yeah. Thank you so much for coming on to the Advice Line. Thanks for having me. Such a pleasure. That's Lara Merican, founder of Lara Bar, and more recently, co-founder of Anther, a coaching service for entrepreneurs. By the way, if you haven't heard Lara's original How I Built This episode, you've got to go back and check it out.

56:02You can find a link to it in the podcast description. Just scroll down, check it out. And here is one of my favorite moments from that interview. Well, the trademarking attorney called me at the 11th hour and we were getting ready to launch. It was the year 2002, summer. And she said, I think you're going to need to change the name. And I just thought, you're joking, right? I've left working at Whole Foods and we're supposed to be launching, but we don't launch. And everybody's backing out because nothing's happening. Thank you so much for listening to the show this week. Please make sure to sign up for my newsletter.

56:41You can sign up for that for free at GuyRoz.com. And every week we put in tons of insights from entrepreneurs, my own observations and experiences interviewing some of the greatest entrepreneurs ever. If you are working on a business and you would like to be on this show, send us a one-minute message that tells us about your business, the issues or questions that you'd like help with. And hopefully we can help you with them. And make sure to tell us how to reach you. You can send us a voice memo at hibt at id.wondery.com or call 1-800-433-1298 and leave a message there and we'll put all this in the podcast description as well.

57:20This episode was produced by Sam Paulson with music composed by Ramtin Erablui. It was edited by John Isabella and our audio engineer was Neil Rauch. Our production team at How I Built This also includes Alex Chung, Carla Estevez, Chris Messini, Devin Schwartz, Elaine Coates, JC Howard, Catherine Seifer, Kerry Thompson, and Neva Grant. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab.

57:52If you like How I Built This, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.