Advice Line with Lyndon Cormack of Herschel Supply Co.

26:16And I realized that I would just put my clothes on the floor and the chair is bad, but the floor was just like terrible for me. And I was like picking my clothes up off the floor, putting them on, going outside. And that was, that was terrible for me. So I thought I can make something better here. And then I insured it on a couple of times and then got something for myself. My girlfriend used it all the time. And she was, she's one of those people who, loves me, but she would have said, John, this is not a good product. But she was using it every day. And I thought, maybe there's something here.

26:42And so I Googled factories in Vietnam who make furniture. And we got a sample made, got a couple of samples made, weren't good the first time. And then we had a Kickstarter. Kickstarter went well, and now we have a business. And you designed this, you basically said, I want basically a ladder with hooks. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So the ladder is sort of the simple part. The hooks was a bespoke part. But I was sort of like, okay, the hook is where I think the value is. Otherwise, it's just the latter. So you got one sort of sample made, and then you launched a Kickstarter to launch the business?

27:14Yeah. How much did you raise on the Kickstarter? Yeah. So we wanted to pre-sell about 4 ,000 pounds worth, and we sold about 18 ,000 pounds worth of units. Just one product, just a floor drop. Wow. And then I made a website, and now we just started selling the product. And how much does the, uh, is it cost right now? Yeah. So the floor droid costs 60 pounds. 60 pounds. So about 70 bucks, roughly. Yeah. 70 to 68 dollars. The pound is so weak compared to the dollar now. So, uh, but, um, and is this your full-time job now? No, no. What's your job? Yeah. So I work in, um, in climate finance, essentially, like we build carbon projects.

27:54And this is my side hustle that is fast turning into two main hustles, I suppose. Yeah. And with the hope of maybe making this your main job? Yeah. Okay. All right. Cool. So lots to talk about. Tell me what your question is for us today. Yeah. So my question to you and to Lyndon is, as a D2C business, we need to get people to try the product. But we're not a sweet business. You can't just pick us up off the aisle, try it one time and think, oh, that's great, and then go back and get some more. It's more binary than that. You buy it or you don't. And the bedroom is quite a uniquely personal space.

28:28And so I think people are quite hesitant to put something in their bedroom, rightly so. And so as a DTC business, it's how to get people to try the product, maybe without them having to commit to a full purchase, you know, so they can see it, feel it, get comfortable with it. All right, cool. Lyndon, I want to bring you in here. The floor drobe, maybe this is not a problem you have. Maybe you are very disciplined, Lyndon. Maybe you fold your stuff. You wear your jeans, you fold them perfectly crisp and put them back in the closet. Yeah, I wish. First of all, congratulations, John. And I am not really good at the folding or putting things back.

29:04I have maybe a few things like I'm lots of sweaters I'll fold and put down on a shelf. But aside from that, I'm not so good. John, I guess I have a few questions. Your question, I'm not sure if it's exactly the question I would have. You know, the Kickstarter proved that people can see value in this. So I think, you know, every business, I always say every business starts with a problem and you've identified one. The product is simple. You know, it is a ladder with your bespoke hooks. And I think that it's pretty easy to see that on your website. I mean, I can, I sort of get it right. Maybe I don't get the, like, it doesn't stretch out your shirts and all that.

29:41But I think that's a value add, which is great. But I mean, I feel like you've got a lot right so far, you know. So where my mind goes is you live in London. there is unbelievable boutique hotels, everything from high to low. Oh, that's a great idea. Yeah. And, you know, having this associated with some of those so people could potentially try it on in Soho House as one comes to mind in Shoreditch or one of those. Yeah. But also just continually using beautiful spaces to show different environments that your product lives within. Yeah. Whether that's renting, you know, borrowing a room for you know a couple hours or renting it for the night and you you and your girlfriend can have a staycation after but using these for photo shoots of just illustrating all the different spaces and places that you can use your your product i mean i yeah guy knows this from our episode but i love design i love interiors i love spaces and you know this i feel like where it would really motivate me is just seeing, seeing this continually in beautiful spaces, especially because I think you're selling neatness.

30:51Like you're selling organization and neatness, you know? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, exactly. House proud. Yes. I guess one of my sort of follow-up questions would be, you know, one of my customers came back and, and, and the sales since, since we've launched, haven't been like the Kickstarter. It's been a bit slow. And one of my customers came back and he said, the product is so much higher quality than I thought for something that I bought off Instagram. And so like that still got me thinking, I was like, well, I think people need to feel it or touch it. And, you know, Lyndon, when I was re-listening to your episode, you went straight to retail.

31:22And so I was thinking, well, maybe, maybe it shouldn't just be DTC. Maybe it actually should be, you know, you can touch it, you can feel it, you can see it in the bedroom. I think Lyndon to kind of double down, because I think it's a great idea what you talked about. And that, John, I was wondering if you had reached out to any boutique hotels or, and if not, maybe you should consider doing it. And, you know, I think we did an episode on a bike brand in the U.S. called Priority a few years ago. And their whole strategy was to work with hotels. There are hotels all over the United States that have Priority bicycles.

31:52You know, when you want to borrow a bike, they've got like six of them. And so that's how they built awareness. So the idea of having these in, you know, you pick a couple of really cool boutique hotels or Soho House if you can get in there. and with a little, some kind of sign or some kind of way that people know that they could order it. You know, would you like your own floor drobe? You know, here's the QR code. But I also think that there's a world where you work with gift stores and really cool like boutique shops in London and you work with them on consignment. You know, maybe they have one or two in stock and people can just kind of see how it works because it's not a product you can send to people like, you know, Warby Parker glasses, where they send you the pair, you try them on, then you send them back.

32:39Those costs are too prohibitive. I mean, the cost to ship it and then return shipping, you can't absorb that. Yeah. I think it feels like, John, what you want to start is, again, I always go to like, okay, what are the values? What does this brand want to do? And I feel like if you want to sell organization, you probably want to be a design brand. I can tell like from the aesthetics, you know, you care about aesthetics and sort of that's a game where my mind goes to these beautiful spaces in London. And I think also having association with other brands is going to be also important. So I did just look again on your front page and I do actually see a Herschel bag on one of your photos.

33:18So thank you as well for that. Wow. It's actually my bag. Look at that. Appreciate that. Look at that. I've got my number one fan here. When you talk about a story, about your bag being a story when you travel with it, yeah, it's exactly that. Yeah, awesome. Bag I moved to London with. That's right. Look at that. You've got a Herschel bag right there on the front page of the website. It's actually next to me right now. That was shameless self-promotion for Herschel, so thank you, John. So I would try to make sure that brands, when you're doing photo shoots, you're going to have all these consumer segmentations, right?

33:56And so I'll just make some up for a second, but you have maybe for, you know, young guys, you have streetwear, right? Like, I mean, an amazing brand based out of London called Palace, you know, or the Supreme of New York, basically. but like showing a supreme jacket hanging on that showing you know a nike shoe for your streetwear consumer you know then you flip to maybe you know the person going to where who wears a sport code or or you know the the girl who might be more interested in going to the markets and thrift stores and what does her floor drop look like versus what mine would look like versus what guys would look like it's a great idea exactly and speak to some personality like different personalities that could resonate with different people when they see it.

34:39Yeah, I see it. I see it. Lyndon, how much do you charge an hour if you're consulting?

34:47Today, it's all free. I'm just happy to contribute back to this amazing community. No, it's a great idea. I love it. John, I love this product. It's really great. And I think that you've got something here. Congrats and good luck. Thank you, Guy. Thanks. That means a lot. And thanks, Lyndon. Really appreciate the feedback. It's going to be implemented. Of course, John, we're rooting for you. Your assets are going to be key, John. So create beautiful assets and get them out into the world. John Durling, Floor Drobe. Thanks, man. Thanks. I mean, I just I love that idea, right? You just get it in a hotel room because how many times have you been in a hotel room where there's something really cool?

35:26It happened to me. I was in a hotel where they had this beautiful coffee maker and I bought the coffee machine because it was so nice. And it wasn't even trying to sell it to me. It was just in the room. Yeah, I think he's on to something. I think the before and after pictures, like what it looks like with stuff all over the floor, flipping right over to what it looks like organized. I think of Pinterest being his friend, you know, like getting like beautiful curated rooms with his products on Pinterest is good. And then probably trying to find influencers there that, you know, maybe send the product to and have them speak for him of all the benefits.

36:02But yeah, he's got a good start. And so just create more content, get it out in the world. Yeah. All right, we're going to take another quick break, but we'll be right back with another caller. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and we've got the answers right here on the advice line on how I built this lab.

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38:35Individual responses may vary.

38:46Welcome back to the Advice Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz, and today I'm taking calls with Lyndon Cormack. So, Lyndon, what do you say? Are you ready for our next caller? I'm ready to jump in. Let's go. Awesome. All right, let's bring in our next caller. Welcome to the advice line you're on with Lyndon Cormack from Herschel. Please tell us your name, where you're calling from, a little bit about your business. Hi, Guy. Hi, Lyndon. I'm so excited to be here. My name is Virginia Lynn Peterson. I'm in Anchorage, Alaska, and I'm the founder of Swoop. I started my business out of a need.

39:17My background is in emergency room nursing, and I couldn't find a bra that I love to wear for a 12-hour shift. So I made my own, and now we've become a lifestyle brand for people on the go. Amazing. Welcome to the show. So, Swoop, this is—so we started out, you're a nurse. Are you still a nurse? A little bit. I'm what they call registry now, so I kind of work as needed. So a shift here and there. Yeah. All right. And you have—you're working long shifts, and you're like, this bra isn't working for me. I'm going to make my own. I mean, this is a classic entrepreneur story. Yeah. I'm going to solve my own problem.

39:51So you literally sewed your own. And what was, you know, just full disclosure, I'm not super familiar with the inner workings of bras, but what was different about the one that you made? Yeah. So what makes our bras difference is we put the rings and sliders in the front instead of the back. It's lined with a super soft material called modal. So it's just super soft against the skin. And it's more supportive than a bralette and a little not as tight as a sports bra. So I know you guys probably don't wear bras, but it's kind of a big deal for 12 hours. A bralette just doesn't feel good. And after a sports bra for 12 hours, it's just too tight.

40:29And are there wires in the bra? No wires. No wires. OK, so wire totally wireless. Cool. All right. So you started. When did you start this? Four years ago. We're about to just wrap up year four. Nice. Amazing. It's so cool how many COVID era businesses were getting on the show. And I remember during COVID saying, we are going to be talking to so many COVID era businesses in like three, four years. And it's happening. It's amazing. You were basically started out as a bra business. And is it still, it's just mainly what you guys make and sell? We've really expanded our product line. So bras were kind of our win-win.

41:04And then we brought on an oversized sweatshirt that we call a tunic. So the bras and tunics are best sellers for us. And then we kind of keep dabbling in other products just to test other things. So we have rain pants and loungewear. We try to listen to our customers and hear what they want to see. And are you selling mostly direct to consumer or are you selling in shops, in Anchorage? Where are your sales channels? Yeah, we're like a third, third, third is what I like to say. So we're a third through our website, a third in person markets, and then a third wholesale. sale. So we're in REI in Anchorage and REI in Fairbanks.

41:40And then we're in a couple of popular local stores here, Dos Manos and Hotel Aliesca. And is most, so most of your sales are coming from Alaska, within Alaska? Correct. I'm hoping to hit 300 ,000 this year in revenue. We have, I would say maybe we're like 10 to 15 % out of state. Cool. All right, Virginia, what's your question that you have for us today? Yeah. So my question is this. 2024 was a huge year for us in building local wholesale partnerships. We tried to expand that out of state with not much luck. So we did a lot of cold calling, a lot of emailing, hey, we'll send you samples. And it was just kind of crickets.

42:21So as we're moving into 2025, we're debating about trying to attend trade shows to see if we could get in front of buyers that way. But my concerns are the cost and time, especially traveling from Alaska to get to a trade show. Is it really going to put us in front of the right people? Yeah, a lot to think about. Lyndon, I want to bring you in here. So, yeah, what are your thoughts about it? I mean, I love the story. You know, nurse has this problem, solves her problem and brings it to$300 ,000 in sales. Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah. Virginia, nice to meet you and congratulations on your early success.

42:56So when you were speaking initially, my mind was going, this is designed by a nurse for nurses. And I just did a quick Google search and there's 3.4 million female nurses in the United States alone. And I go, well, that's a pretty nice market size. Even if it's 1%, 10 % of those 3.4 million. That's a lot. That's a lot of people. And remember, this is just quick scanning. But as I'm going through your site, your story is clearly about being a nurse and the problem you're trying to fix. It's good for the 12-hour shift, right? I mean, I think you have that. But I also see a whole bunch of Alaska, which A, I agree is a good point of differentiation.

43:43And we're a brand from Vancouver, Canada. So Vancouver is a part of our unique identity. And And although we're not overtly Vancouver, I mean, we sell all over the world, Vancouver's home. And it does play into the sensibilities of our brand. And we're very proud of that. But when I'm hearing you talk and I'm hearing the story, I hear that it's designed by a nurse for nurses. That's the thing that's catching me, right? And I feel like the opportunity is selling to more nurses. I think that's a really interesting idea. I want to, I'm curious, Virginia. I am sure there are bra brands out there that specifically target or market to nurses, but would there be a reluctance to do that?

44:26I mean, would you be concerned about being seen as a sort of a nurse-focused brand? No, and that's actually a great question. So when we first started the brand, my goal, my business goal was to sell our bras and underwear in every single scrub shop across America. So we dove hard into that, dove hard into the nursing story. I went to my very first trade show that was a scrub trade show and didn't have much luck. So I think that must have been three years ago we did that. And the vibe and the comments that kept getting made was they were like, there's no way. There's no way I'm going to sell bras and underwear in my scrub shop.

45:09Like this just isn't not aligned. and I will say it felt a little bit like the old old boys club because they kept saying well we want to see something new and I'm like well this is new like you're not selling this kind of stuff and it's like all in one right a nurse is going to walk in they're going to buy their underwear their bra their scrub top their scrub bottom their socks their shoes their stethoscope and walk out like it just felt like an all-in-one package so that was when I kind of pulled back from that story a little bit because I just felt it wasn't really well received in that way.

45:45Yeah, understood. When I think about this and you think about uniform packages and you feel, you know, wellness programs, like, is there nursing associations that you're a part of that you're able to speak directly, you know, as a nurse to nurses that could help you spread your story? Because it feels like it's a bit of a wellness story as well. Right. And that is actually something we haven't tapped into. And I mostly have stayed away because of the cost, but there are tons of different nursing organizations out there that have a lot of journals. So I could pay for some paid, like printed advertising in a journal article or on their website.

46:22It's just always surprising, even for a nursing, like how expensive they are. So that is something I have not tapped into. You mentioned trade shows and I'm curious, I mean, you were reluctant to go to them in part because they're expensive. But at the same time, I mean, you're talking about trying to break into wholesale. And it seems to me that that's an investment worth making, even if it's challenging, even if it has been challenging, because everyone's there. Yes. I mean, that was it. We did a lot of cold calling and emailing and, hey, you know, we'll send you samples. Yeah. Especially the tunics.

47:00They're so soft. It's like you just have to touch it. But not like one store wanted a sample. And we must have called well over 100 different places. I think guys, right. I mean, Herschel's business, it was started in a different time. We launched in to retail in July of 2010. But our whole strategy was definitely going to trade shows. And it's where people congregate. It's where people after the trade shows have drinks at the bar if they drink or dinners. There's conferences around there. There's thought leaders in the space that usually you can go for extracurricular knowledge about what's going on in the space.

47:38There's oftentimes vendors are there with new materials, new technology. They oftentimes, if everybody's there, the manufacturer's there, they show up as well. And I feel like it's coming back from some of the feedback you said from the trade show. It's like, oh, we're looking for what's new. And you're like, we are new. Look at us. But it's like, how do you even up your game a little bit more to when you show up at a trade show, people are like, oh, wow, what's this? The booth, the quality of the merchandise. So like people are intrigued before you're even telling your very personal story about a problem you solved and how you want to solve this for, you know, surviving the 12 hour shift.

48:20You know, again, I still love the nurse angle, especially at these kind of trade shows, obviously. But then your point of difference here, you know, where I see the Alaska part come in is like, we're really proud to be from Alaska and Anchorage in particular where you're based. Yeah, 100 % agree. I do think it's worthwhile making the investment and doing that kind of travel because you've got a sustainable business here. You've got, you're getting, you know, regular steady orders in Alaska, but you're looking to expand outside of Alaska. You're looking to get customers in the lower 48. So it seems to me that, you know, that's really where you want to be.

48:59You want to go to those places and you want to talk to those retailers. Right. The brand is called Swoop. Virginia Peterson, thanks so much for calling in. Good luck. Thank you. Thanks, Virginia. Great having you. Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, it's like a fine line, right? Because it's an Alaska brand, just like you're a Vancouver brand, but it's at the central part of your identity. It's a universal. Herschel is, right? It's universal. Anybody can, you know, you can be in London or wherever and use it and wear it. But there's something about using Alaska effectively that could be interesting, especially around her story.

49:35I mean, I'm sure we didn't ask Virginia this point blank, but I can imagine she's done a lot of research on figs. That brand obviously is doing incredibly well in relation to scrubs and having a point of differentiation. And there's something there. I would say Alaska is probably good. I would move it down to a secondary or third story and figure out what the story one and story two are and then have that as the foundation or background for it. for sure. Lyndon, I want to, before I let you go, I want to ask you a question that I've been asking all the founders come on the show, which is if you could go back to, you know, 2008, you know, nine, when you and Jamie started the brand, what piece of advice might have been helpful for you that would have maybe, I don't know, ease things a little bit or just made your life a little bit easier at the time?

50:26Well, you know, I think that the scars that we have, the learning experiences that we underwent ultimately built great character. And I love the failures we had as much as I love the wins because they taught us a lot. And when we did something that didn't work or when something came in not as expected, we worked extra hard to get it right the next time. And so I think that embracing failures and embracing these struggles are something that I would probably tell that version of myself as we were starting that it's part of the journey and it's going to make us better for it in the end. I love that.

51:13It's great advice. It's great advice. That's Lyndon Cormack, co-founder of Herschel Supply Company. Lyndon, thanks so much for coming back on the show. It's been a pleasure and good luck to all the young entrepreneurs who are having their new ideas brought to life. It's an exciting time. Indeed. And by the way, if you haven't heard Lyndon's original episode of How I Built This, you've got to go back and check it out. It's so good. We'll put a link in the podcast description. And here is one of my favorite moments from that interview. Jamie and I promised ourselves that we would be together for the first time we opened our first samples.

51:47We met in the outskirts of Calgary. It was a bit mafioso style where the cars rolled in, trunks opened, box pulled up, box cutter opened. Jamie sliced the box open and we literally opened up the box and saw our first samples. And to be very honest, they were pretty disappointing. Thanks so much for listening to the show this week. Please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for free at GuyRoz.com. Each week, it's packed with tons of insights from entrepreneurs and my own observations and experiences interviewing some of the greatest entrepreneurs ever. And if you're working on a business and you'd like to be on this show, send us a one-minute message that tells us about your business, the issues or questions you'd like help with.

52:36and hopefully we can help you with them. And make sure to tell us how to reach you. You can send us a voice memo at hibt at id.wondery.com or call us at 1-800-433-1298 and leave a message there. And we'll put all this in the podcast description as well. This episode was produced by Alex Chung with music composed by Ramtin Arablewe. It was edited by John Isabella and our audio engineer was Sina Lafredo. Our production staff also includes Carla Estevez, Casey Herman, JC Howard, Chris Messini, Sam Paulson, Carrie Thompson, Neva Grant, and Elaine Coates. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab.

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