Advice Line with Mark Ramadan of Sir Kensington's (June 2024)

25:45Correct. And as well, you know, I'm so passionate about food that I keep up with the trend. So ramen, it's pretty big right now within the market. So we have a Mexi ramen and the same with poke. So we have a variety of items to add on to our mix of tacos and as well what the other competitors, you know, they do. Mark, you faced a giant competitor, Heinz, with your ketchup with Sir Kensington's. And of course, Lucas is facing the impending arrival of Chipotle 150 feet from his taco shop, which is a obviously a massive multi-billion dollar, you know, empire. um any any initial thoughts before we dive into his question well first of all i'm happy to hear that you made it out of the pandemic and you have a concept that's working so congratulations because a lot of restaurateurs and chefs did not so you should feel at least proud of where you've gotten to i think the you know at the highest level like competing with a monolith like any major company you just have to recognize there are some things that they do very well and some things that they would just never do.

26:55And the things that they do very well are systems, routine, predictability, dependability, and usually cost and price. So that means they're very good. Chipotle is an excellent example of a restaurant that has managed to maintain the expected level of quality at significant scale, but no one would call it their local taco spot. I mean, what Chipotle is not good at is they're not good at creating a local integrated community feel in any of their stores. And so, you know, my initial instinct is don't compete with Chipotle doing what Chipotle does. Chipotle is going to out Chipotle you 10 days out of 10, right?

27:32They've built the machine to do that. But when you go into a local restaurant, you expect to have a local feel there, whether that's, you know, local performers or musicians, local additions to the menu, or even a little local market there. These are just random examples of how do you make your store not feel like a competitor to the chain restaurant next door, but actually its own completely new thing. And one part of that equation is you. It's the personalities behind the counter, right? It's the people. Because what is a hospitality experience if not people? And then the second is the environment.

28:07I mean, the food, maybe you both serve tacos, but that's almost incidental to the emotional experience you're delivering. Right, right. And to be honest, it's the idea behind Taco Shop as well. It's like trust the chef behind the scene, you know, that is going to offer you the best experience that we can and fast. And, you know, going back to the atmosphere is my wife, she's a designer and we take a lot of pride as well about the atmosphere. You know, it's like we make sure that we didn't copy absolutely anything, that it was already, you know, within, you know, our competitors or marketplace.

28:42we created a very very unique um concept you know lucas i'm looking at your website and you just mentioned this this this idea that like hey trust a chef and all stuff i i i know this because i just i was looking at your bio it's just not on your website or might it's not easy to find you're a nominee you're a james beard nominee i mean like i mean you have this incredible pedigree and i I wonder why on the website it doesn't say tacos from a James Beard nominee or chef-driven. I mean, Steve Ells, who started Chipotle, was a trained chef. He did go to culinary school, and his dream—we did him on the show many years ago.

29:24His dream was to build a Michelin three-star restaurant. That's why he started Chipotle, to finance it. He never built a Michelin restaurant, but Chipotle was the result. But it was chef-driven. I feel like just from the entry point, you know, whether it's a website or coming into the restaurant, you need to tell me this is driven by a chef, a James Beard nominee. Right, right. And you're correct. I just, you know, it's really hard. The perception of tacos is always going to be tacos are cheap food. Correct. So the fact that I'm a chef, I'm always afraid that we're going to scare people away thinking that, you know, we're too upscale.

30:04or even over the core, you know, we made it as simple as we can because we are concerned that, you know, people are not going to feel comfortable when they walk in the door and feeling like they're going to pay a higher price that they can right around the corner. And, you know, we stand behind our quality, but the first perception really for a guest to walk in through the door is so important that, you know, it's tough. It's all these elements that we try to balance to make sure that we can cater to everyone. I mean, this is maybe a contrarian opinion, but I think that the word to focus on in terms of your guess is maybe less price or cost and more value, right?

30:51Value is like price meets expectations. That's just one definition. But But you could raise your price and also raise the experience that you're delivering or raise the ante on expectation. And people may well be willing to pay that. My fear for you, again, I haven't been to your restaurant. So, you know, I don't know if this is the case. But my fear is if you engage in a price war with Chipotle, you will definitely lose. You will never have the cheapest, most profitable tacos. Right. And so that's a losing fight from day one. What you really want to do is figure out what is the community center that your guests are looking for during this summer season in Cape May, right?

31:31Right. And I can think of so many little beautiful seasonal shops out in the North Fork of Long Island or in the Hamptons or, you know, all the beach communities around the U.S. And they're all sort of like multi-factor places. They serve coffee in the mornings and then they have delightful sandwiches in the afternoon. And there's also a bookstore. And maybe they also sell toys for kids because people want to buy toys in the summer. And there's probably also ice cream in the afternoon. And I'm not saying you should do any of those necessarily. But if you shift your thinking from we are a taco restaurant competing with Chipotle to we are a community destination for summers in Cape May serving great food, which happens to be Mexican food, I think you can really change the value expectation people have of your restaurant.

32:13If I go in and I'm faced with beautiful design objects and you have comfy chairs and there's a James Beard nominee behind the counter and you say, well, the tacos aren't$8, they're$12 or$13, maybe it's a very different story. Right, right, right. For sure. You know, Mark, I think that you're onto something really important here, which is because I know, Lucas, you're wondering, should I bring on investors? How do I, you know, how do I sort of grow this? Because ultimately, your idea is to grow this and to scale this, right? But initially, the immediate threat is this Chipotle coming. And let's be honest, Chipotle is a great chain.

32:50It makes high quality food. But here's where Chipotle underperforms. And here's where I think, Mark, you're exactly right about the community thing. here's where you can really differentiate and that is hot sauce if you go chipotle there's tabasco and there's tabasco chipotle you could create you could just get a wall like right now you could just have a wall of a 200 hot sauces at taco shop right i mean there's got to be people in new jersey making hot sauce i know there are people all over the country well that that's me, guy. We have four different sauces. We have jolica moly, chimichimi, Jesus Mary's Hot.

33:33I love it. JMJ. We actually make our own hot sauces, and that's the only hot sauce that we serve at the restaurant. You know, it's, you know, and again, we never thought that we were going to be put on the field to compete in such a big league. And we didn't choose this. It happened. And now Chipotle coming in place, you know, we know that they're going to take 30 % of our bottom margin, you know, and that is our concern. Because being a seasonal business where, you know, our summer months are incredible and our winter months are a disaster, you know, 20 % will really damage the business. So we're in front of a situation that we need to take action.

34:22And that's our concern. I would just say on the fundraising side, I would not recommend raising funds until you have a concept that you feel confident that is working. not only because I think it puts you in a position where you now are suddenly owing people money and you don't necessarily have the runway ahead of you to pay them back either through scaling or through selling the business. But I think it distracts you from what should be your core mission now, which is how do you deliver something that's valuable to your community rather than how do you pay back your debt facility or pay back your investors?

34:58I work with a lot of restaurants And those that are loaded up with debt can't focus on operations. And those loaded up with equity investors also are distracted from finding opportunities with their operations. So I would definitely focus on, I mean, I'm not saying don't raise money in the future. But typically you would want to wait to do that until you have the concept that's humming and buzzing and you feel like I can't help but open a second location. And I think you get there by creating a cult following, right? I mean, Chipotle scaled, Sweetgreen scaled, all of these businesses scaled because they first had a home base that had a cult following.

35:31Yours will look different than Chipotle's. But again, not to repeat myself, but I'd encourage you to really think about how do you deliver a service that is not tacos to your guests? You may serve tacos, but what's the service? What is the environment they're walking into? Why are they coming there? And if the answer is because your tacos are better, I don't think that's a long-term sustainable differentiation from Chipotle. Not to say yours aren't delicious, but it's tenuous if they're 100 feet away. But how do you create something that's more, that's emotional, that's cathartic for people? That's the beauty of local small businesses.

36:07Right. And I think you can do that through products, like I was saying with the hot sauce. I think you can do it through menu integrations, whatever's fresh from the farmer's market. Chipotle will never do that. And I think you can do it in ways that are cheap or free to you. Like I mentioned this earlier, but invite a local musician to perform every Thursday. Yes. You know? Have a band there. a local band. You go in there to hear great music and have great food. That's a great idea. Chipotle is never going to compete with that, ever. Right. And the other thing is the quality of what you're producing, the quality of your ingredients, your pedigree.

36:43You're making the hot sauces. I didn't know that until you told me that. Yeah, we make our hot sauces. We make fresh tortillas every morning. In-house. I mean, this is not... I don't see this on your website. Maybe you're advertising at the restaurant. But man, I mean, I feel like as part of your brand Bible, we make everything in house. You make your tortillas. I'm eating that. You make your hot sauce. Like you steep the chilies and vinegar and you're making it. I want to try that. But you have to tell me that. Yeah, that's a good point. Mark, any final words of wisdom for Lucas? I guess I would only say do whatever you can to keep track of the community that you're building and stay in touch with them.

37:29You know, whether you have a newsletter, which costs you nothing, right? Or even just like some sort of way to keep track of who's coming in and out to actually stay in touch, to let them know the events that are coming up, to let them know what kind of specials you're doing. Again, these are like the super low cost ways to stay close to that community and remind them that you're still there. Right, right. All right. Lucas, thank you so much for calling in. Thank you so much, guys. I appreciate it. It's a taco shop. Good luck. Thank you so much. I mean, homemade hot sauce? Sounds great. And four different kinds?

38:03You know that one of those is going to be really fiery. And I'm like the one who's, I'm always like, I'm going from the mild to the crazy dragon fire breathing one. Because I just, he's making it. You know, though, your idea of the wall of hot sauces was great. There used to be a restaurant in Hudson, New York, in the Hudson Valley. It was a Mexican restaurant. And they had like literally 100 hot sauces that you could pick from. And it was so fun because every meal was completely different. I remember there's a barbecue joint in Washington, D.C. that has the same thing. And it's so fun. Yeah. Mark, you launched, of course, into this incredibly competitive space.

38:44Not crowded because ketchup is not crowded, but it's very competitive. obviously dominated by, you know, and mayonnaise too, by big multinational brands. How did you guys think about competing with those brands? Or did you think that we're not even competing with them at all? We're not going after the same customer? We definitely recognized that there was competition, but I don't think we saw Heinz as the big scary competitor, if that makes sense. If anything, we saw Inertia as the competitor. people are on you know they're not impulse buying different ketchups every week and so the real competitor was habit and so we thought about how do we break a habit rather than how do we switch people away from hines and so most of what we did at the very beginning was get in front of people so they could taste it so that was doing demos in stores most of which at the beginning scott and i did ourselves or we would be on restaurant tables or hotel room service trays because those are opportunities for people to actually taste it.

39:46Because at the end of the day, what we were really trying to build was an emotional taste experience. And if it's just sitting on a shelf and it's one jar out of 50 and people are on autopilot anyway, that's no way to get someone's attention. We really had to cut through the noise. And so everything we did was about how do we cut through the noise. All right, Mark, we're going to go ahead and take another quick break. But when we comeback, how to keep your baby from freaking out at dinner, a new kind of placemat. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to the Advice Line right here on How I Built This Lab.

40:37that look good with everything, the easy sandals you'll want to wear on repeat, DSW has you covered. Find a shoe for every you from the brands you love like Birkenstock, Nike, Adidas, New Balance, and more. Head to your DSW store or visit dsw.com today.

40:58The WNBA playoffs are in full swing and Tommy Alters, the young man in the three, brings you closer to the game. Get complete WNBA playoff coverage as Tommy sits down with the game's biggest stars and delivers unmatched analysis. The Young Men and the Threes WNBA playoff coverage is presented by Quest Nutrition. From irresistibly crunchy protein chips to rich chocolatey protein bars, these treats make giving in feel so good. Quest. Big on protein, low on sugar, huge on flavor. Shop Quest on Amazon at Amazon.com slash Quest Nutrition. And enjoy all the WNBA action on The Young Man and the Three wherever you get your podcasts.

41:48Welcome back to The Advice Line on how I built this lab. Today, I'm taking calls with Sir Kensington's co-founder, Mark Ramadan. Let's take our next caller. Is that Beth? I'm here. I'm here. Oh my gosh, I've been a fan of this show since the very first week I had my business. Welcome. Thank you for listening to the show. Beth, tell us where you're calling from and just a little bit about your business. Yeah, my name is Beth Beneke. I am from a little town outside of Rochester, Minnesota, and my business is Busy Baby. We have the first ever interchangeable system of food-grade placemats, tethers, and accessories that keep baby's things within reach and off the floor at home and on the go.

42:28All right, so tell me the question you brought for us. What guidance would you have to offer a company that's navigating the messy middle phase where you're outgrowing the startup tactics, but you're not quite ready for big brand strategies yet? All right. Cool. I believe, Beth, you were on How You Built That, this segment that we used to do back in the day where we would have two minutes about a small brand. You were on our show back in the day, right? Busy Baby was. I was. I was. Tell us a little bit. It's like a placemat that you put on like a high chair, right, for a baby. But it's got a bunch of strings or things that you attach to baby toys?

43:11Yeah, it's really simple. It's a silicone placemat with suction cups on the bottom so you can stick it to any smooth, clean surface. And then it has a tether system of silicone kind of bungees. We call them toy straps, tethers, that you can hook to the mat and then you can loop them through or around pretty much any toy you've already got for your baby. All right. I can only imagine how this started as I because I remember, even though I've got a 15 and a 13 year old, but I remember losing my mind when they just throw things off the high chair like carrots and banana peel. Now that you can't tether, but but but everything like the rattles and the bottle and we was just all all over the place.

43:48It used to drive me nuts. I eventually learned how to cope with it. I have to imagine that's how it started for you. Yeah. I mean, it starts out innocent enough. It's a lack of fine motor skills. Babies just can't hold on to things. They drop them. But then when they learn quickly, it can be a very fun game of fetch with mom and dad. And is this what was going on with you? You were a parent and you saw this happening? Yeah, kind of. I had my first child when I was 40, so I was a little bit later in life. And I was working a corporate job. And when I went back to work after maternity leave, I went out to lunch with a couple of my stay-at-home mom friends.

44:21And they brought their daughters with them. And while they were super cute, they were very distracting. And we couldn't honestly finish a conversation. So while we were sitting at the table, I went on Amazon to buy something so that when my son was big enough, he wouldn't be that distraction at the table. And there was nothing? Nothing. There was, you know, there's pacifier clips. There's always been, you know, hook a pacifier to their shirt. But there needed to be a place to put food and a way to keep the toys off the ground. Okay. So now you're at a point where you're not a startup, but you're not massive.

44:51massive. Do you mind sharing roughly what your revenue is? Yeah. I mean, in the five years we've been in business now, we've done just over$14 million in sales. Wow. So this is pretty great. And are you still growing or has the growth slowed down? Well, that's kind of the sticky spot right now is, you know, along the road, I grew very fast. I was on Shark Tank in my third year. And also during the pandemic, we saw a ton of growth because everybody, you know, that's when I started marketing on Facebook and Google and everybody was stuck at home and everyone needed something to keep the baby busy while they were homeschooling the other kids or taking a Zoom call for their job.

45:31So anything that was like keeping the baby occupied, even just for 20 minutes so you could get through these things, it just blew up. And so at the time I was still working my full-time job. I didn't have many expenses other than the inventory, really, and then the Facebook ads. So at that time, I convinced my brother to quit his very stable full-time job to join me in this very unstable roller coaster of entrepreneurship. And, you know, it took on his salary. And then I ended up quitting my job and took on my salary. And then we needed health benefits. So the company paid for health benefits.

46:04And before I knew it, operating expenses just kept creeping up and up. And the more you sell, the more general liability insurance costs and the more all these other things cost. And cash flow was never an issue in the first few years. And so I didn't pay close enough attention. And now cash flow is an issue. But we have several large opportunities this year. We just launched on Target.com, and we are onboarding right now with Walmart. And Walmart really loves our products, and they love our innovation. and it's an amazing opportunity that's going to cost a lot of money and just scares me to death.

46:39So that's another big part of the story that is where I'm kind of stuck in this messy middle. Yeah. So getting to the messy middle is still an accomplishment, by the way. So congratulations. You know, 14 million of sales means there's a real product market fit. There are families that love this. So that is an important part to not get lost in the question. one sort of high level point is that retail is a blessing and a curse it can be a blessing because large customers can mean large orders and large orders can give you certainty and predictability it can give you leverage with a bank facility which i'll get to but the downside is that they are more expensive to work with and you get your cash much less quickly so when someone buys online you get their credit card payment right away when walmart buys it might be 30 60 90 120 days until you get paid.

47:30And you often don't get paid for 100 % of what you ship because in retail, there's all sorts of markdowns and deductions. So one thing to just keep in mind is almost inevitably, if you launch in retail, things will get messier before they get better in terms of your cash and inventory position. One question I had is, I heard that you have a home equity line of credit separately for inventory financing. Have you ever spoken with a local bank or debt provider to help finance your inventory? Yes, we have actually a fantastic hometown bank. So I've since closed the home equity line of credit, and we've opened inventory lines of credit with the hometown bank.

48:04They're currently maxed out. Last year, Q1 was the biggest quarter we ever had, and so we ordered a lot of inventory to support that growth for the rest of the year. And then Facebook and Google Ads started underperforming, and the year kind of fell apart. And so we ended up being stuck with a lot of inventory and not being able to pay down those lines of credit yet. Understood. And your inventory doesn't have a shelf life to it, right? No. Right, okay. And then another question is, from a gross margin perspective, do you feel like you are covering, in a normal world, is your gross margin high enough to cover your costs on an ongoing basis?

48:41Yes. In a normal world, our gross margins are fantastic. I think we took a lot of missteps with marketing in the last year that helped put us in this position. We're correcting that this year. And that's kind of how I'm looking at the retail opportunities. is not only is it maybe some bigger orders, but we're getting in front of more faces because people are going back to stores and the online marketing is not working as well as it used to. So I also look at Walmart and Target as just sitting there on the shelf or being in the baby section is marketing. Certainly true. It's marketing and obviously it broadens your exposure to a huge audience.

49:21What about all of the little retailers in between online and Walmart and Target? Have you spoken to like local retailers? I don't know who your big one would be in where you live, but what about all the smaller ones? We're in about 400 independent retailers right now. And that's just mom and pop shops that have reached out to us saying, you know, we love your products. We'd love to sell them in our shop. I'm actually sitting right now in a VRBO in Vegas because we're at the Baby Expo. It's the big retail event of the year for baby stores. Great. Well, so I would say there's no silver bullet because what you're describing, it's a very common issue.

49:56If you're growing quickly and you don't have a pile of investor capital, then financing your inventory growth will always be a challenge that you face, right? Unless your gross margins are 70, 80, 90%. And even then, depending on how quickly you're growing, you're always going to have needs that outstrip your current cash, right? So there's no silver bullet answer. I would say that one thing that you can explore, depending on how excited the buyers are for your products at these various stores is negotiate an agreement so that you can get your first few payments sooner than normal. So, you know, if you have set payment terms of net 30 or net 60, whatever it might be, you could ask for exceptions for the first couple of payments to finance the large initial order.

50:39You know, that's one thing you could do. You could negotiate some of the discounts they take a little bit more aggressively. I'd also say almost every brand that I work with, including the ones I used to run, dramatically reduced investment in e-commerce, Meta, and others. Because the problem you're facing is the same problem everyone's facing. It's just not efficient. And so a lot of people move those funds out of online into point-of-sale marketing. So making sure that people are aware that it's in Walmart, for example, or Target. When you get into those stores, really focusing on services like Instacart, I've seen that have a much higher, I'm talking like two to three times higher ROI than spending on Meta.

51:21Wow. Yeah. So not just maintaining your dollars, but actually shifting your dollars into more profitable retail marketing. I do. I'm seeing a commercial. I know on your website you've got a video of a baby just kind of playing with it. But I have this vision of like a row of babies of like 10 babies. And some of them are just quietly playing. And some of them are screaming and crying and freaking out and throwing things. And some of them are doing other things. It's just like a line of babies in high chairs. And that's just a static shot of it's like just watching babies play with this and just chaos.

52:02I invite you to go to that photo shoot and last more than 20 minutes. It just sounds so funny. It's like a bunch of monkeys at the zoo just looking at babies. It would be – Maybe I can find a daycare center that will let me come and do that. Yeah. Yeah. Promise the parents a free mat. Yeah. Lifetime supply of busy baby products. Let me do the new kids. Do you think, have you thought of also making, I know you sell accessories, but also making the toys that, you know, the tactile things. I know you make a couple things like a spoon and a, but other things like noisemakers or things that you guys make that you would attach to the tray.

52:48Yeah. I mean, we've done some teethers. We've done our training spoon is like really, really popular with the feeding specialist. One thing we've learned is the safety considerations when you're making baby products are just really painful. And so we want to stay away from moving parts and magnets and too much of that stuff while we are still so small. But we're hoping to find some new items at this event we're at that we could maybe just private label, find something that already exists that complements our product line that we can just put our brand on. One other, this is maybe just going back to the OPEX for a second.

53:23And one other, I just wanted to share a perspective on this, which is just that in the messy process of building a business, sometimes you have to invest before growth and sometimes you invest too much before growth. And I, in both businesses I've run multiple times, have we been faced with the reality that we have invested too much in anticipation of sales that never came or came, but came much later. And I've been through incredibly painful moments where we've had to let members of the team go because, you know, my fault in hiring too quickly or putting too much fixed costs on the business. It's not always people.

54:00Sometimes it's software and services, whatever. And we had to retrench, you know, and in a world where money is limited and you aren't taking investor capital and debt is scary because you have covenants and you have restrictions, something's got to give. And so I would just make sure you know it's something that everyone's had to go through in right-sizing OPEX as revenue catches up. And it's hard, but it's often the thing that you must do to get through to that next phase of business in conjunction with other things. So it's often not let's cut OPEX and lose people and therefore everything will be saved.

54:35Or let's invest over here and we won't have to cut people. Sometimes it's both. And sometimes it's not about cutting. It's about reducing the raises or reducing the healthcare. There's all sorts of, you can do this with a fine tooth comb and it's very hard and it's very depressing, but it is very normal. Thank you for saying that because it is very hard and that's a lot of the things we're doing right now. And it is very depressing. It feels like I should be such a success story right now with the numbers that we have and the journey we've been on, but it doesn't feel that way in this moment. And so I'm hoping that all the efforts we're making right now will soon come out on the other side of that.

55:11And it feels good to know I'm not failing, that it is something that companies go through. I mean, I know it seems scary, but you've come a long way. And it's awesome to see the progress that you've achieved so far. Beth Beneke, busy baby, congrats. We're going to be following you. Thank you, guys. Good to meet you. Thank you. Bye. Wow. Mark, I mean, some serious, weighty questions. Yes. You know? Big ones. I mean, all of these are classic business issues, right? How do you compete with the incumbent? How do you make it through a period of high cost? How do you think about product development and innovation?

55:52How do you get retailers to listen to you? How do you build awareness for something that's brand new? These are all the challenges of virtually every business worth building. So, yeah, absolutely. It all felt, all the categories were different, but all the problems were very familiar. I forget who said this, but someone more famous than me said, every time your business doubles, it breaks. And so running into these issues is something that everyone has to deal with. And being open and vulnerable to talk about it and get feedback is also okay. I felt like I was constantly putting on some sort of suit of armor every day, like pretending things were great, pretending everything was going well, including with investors, even when they could have helped.

56:31And so I think being aware that problems are constant and that people are desperate to help you if you ask for help, that would have been helpful to me. Yeah, for sure. Makes a lot of sense. Mark Ramadan, thank you so much for coming on to the advice line, coming back on to how I built this. Thanks, guy. This was great. And by the way, if you haven't heard Mark's episode of how he and Scott built Sir Kensington's, go back and check it out. It's an incredible story. You can find it in the podcast queue. We'll also put a link in the podcast description. And also, don't forget to sign up for my newsletter at GuyRoz.com.

57:08We put a lot of great ideas and advice from the world's greatest entrepreneurs. We put a lot of work into it. It's really, really worth your time. If you are working on a business and you would like to be on this show, send us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. And please make sure to tell us how to reach you. You can send us a voice memo at hibt at id.wondery.com or call 1-800-433-1298 and leave a message there. And we will put all of this in the podcast description on your smartphone. Thanks again. We'll see you next week.

57:44This episode was produced by Sam Paulson with music composed by Ramtin Arablui. It was edited by John Isabella. And our audio engineer was Sina Lafredo. Our production team at How I Built This also includes Alex Chung, Carla Estevez, Casey Herman, Chris Messini, Elaine Coates, JC Howard, Catherine Seifer, Kerry Thompson, and Neva Grant. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab.

58:17If you like How I Built This, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. No one knows your business better than you. So who better to create your website than, well, you? Wix's website builder puts it all in your hands. Create a beautiful website just by talking with AI or choosing from thousands of templates. Customize every detail with simple drag-and-drop tools and get everything you need to start running business your way.

58:59Build more, think bigger, and do it all yourself on Wix. Go to Wix.com.